Riku Vs Darth Revan

Riku Vs Darth Revan

Suggested by Nsl98

Riku (Kingdom Hearts), who appears her for the first time, going up against Darth Revan (Star Wars)

They fight in the MCU Stark Tower.

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82 Comments on "Riku Vs Darth Revan"

  1. Rookie March 29, 2015 at 6:03 am -      #1

    Feat for Riku?

  2. LadyRamkin March 29, 2015 at 6:30 am -      #2

    Well, he is about equal with Sora, so there’s that.

    He also uses darkness, which should be totally elementally compatible with the dark side of the force, and that enhances his magic in certain areas to be much stronger than Sora’s magic.

  3. Rookie March 29, 2015 at 6:40 am -      #3

    @LadyRamkin

    How fast and durable is Riku?

  4. LadyRamkin March 29, 2015 at 6:49 am -      #4

    “How fast and durable is Riku?”

    You don’t really get to play with him alot, or against him alot. You do in DDD but i haven’t beaten that. He is about as fast and as tough as Sora. Some would probably argue he is better.

    Sora can do loads of high end stuff but just giving those feats to Riku because they seem about equal isn’t really viable, so in short. I dunno.

  5. Rookie March 29, 2015 at 7:05 am -      #5

    @LadyRamkin

    So he should be faster than Revan…

    Can Riku resist mind-tricks?

  6. LadyRamkin March 29, 2015 at 7:12 am -      #6

    Back to durability, Hercules can throw titans into orbit (must check if that feat happens in game), Sora can tank punches from Hercules, Xemnas does more damage to Sora than Hercules does, Riku and Sora take the same amount of damage from Xemnas, therefore:
    Riku can tank punches that could send a very large building into orbit.
    – – –
    “Can Riku resist mind-tricks?”

    Uh…. He has been possessed before and has had mind tricks played on him, not of the magical kind as far as i am aware though.

    I say mind tricks, more just… kind of lied to TBH

  7. Rookie March 29, 2015 at 7:18 am -      #7

    @LadyRamkin

    Thanks for the info.

    So unless Revan can use some mind-trick against Riku, Riku should be able to win here.
    I’l side with him, mind-tricks are not Revan’s first weapons in battle.

  8. LadyRamkin March 29, 2015 at 7:23 am -      #8

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vocDalCY8c&t=25m50s

    Possible speed feat

  9. Rookie March 29, 2015 at 7:28 am -      #9

    Very impressive.

  10. Nsl98 March 29, 2015 at 8:25 am -      #10

    m.youtube.com/watch?v=qIQ3hT_Kcus
    ——
    ^ at 0:38, Riku jumps off a skyscraper.
    1:38 sends Roxas flying with a single blow
    2:54 his shield tanks a hit from Roxas, who tossed around building sized Nobody’s one handed
    ——
    m.youtube.com/watch?v=MPBMQmHxy8c

    7:15-7:21 Riku tanks multiple blows from Xemnas’ “lightsabers”.

  11. LadyRamkin March 29, 2015 at 8:26 am -      #11

    “who tossed around building sized Nobody’s one handed”

    …When?
    – – –
    “Xemnas’ “lightsabers”.”

    Which, in of themselves, are completely feat less.

  12. Nsl98 March 29, 2015 at 8:31 am -      #12

    @Ramkin
    1:18 onward:

    m.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ht-5Zhu-ek

  13. LadyRamkin March 29, 2015 at 8:34 am -      #13

    Huh…. he did do that… while all powered down and everything….. Though Nobodies are a bit weird, they sort of…. flow around. They seem to be much lighter than their size would lead you to believe.

    That fight also took place in the ‘Dive to the heart’ Which doesn’t really abide by normal physics as is.

  14. Nsl98 March 29, 2015 at 8:36 am -      #14

    16:30 slices a huge chunk of building in half
    m.youtube.com/watch?v=QbX9DecQf30

  15. LadyRamkin March 29, 2015 at 8:38 am -      #15

    So… except for speed, unless you have a vid for that? he has the same stats as Sora, plus darkness powers

  16. Nsl98 March 29, 2015 at 8:50 am -      #16

    4:40 teleport blitzes Lexaeus
    m.youtube.com/watch?v=xQgOGzXwppw
    —–
    As for speed, he and Sora dodge and react to the supersonic sound waves and faster than lightning enemies.

  17. LadyRamkin March 29, 2015 at 8:52 am -      #17

    “As for speed, he and Sora dodge and react to the supersonic sound waves and faster than lightning enemies.”

    That is true, but Sora has that reaction thing, where everything looks as though it isn’t moving.

  18. Nsl98 March 29, 2015 at 8:55 am -      #18

    Oh yeah, Dual Stance. Sora is faster than Riku, but in every other category, they are pretty much equal. At least, as of DDD. KH3 will no doubt make Sora more powerful.

  19. wingedlion March 29, 2015 at 9:25 am -      #19

    “Sora can do loads of high end stuff but just giving those feats to Riku because they seem about equal isn’t really viable, so in short. I dunno.”

    Why not?
    Just like you said, they are equal to each other. It doesn’t make sense for their stats to not be equal to each other.

    “Uh…. He has been possessed before and has had mind tricks played on him, not of the magical kind as far as i am aware though.”

    One of the main plot points of DDD is that the seekers of darkness cannot mind control Riku anymore.

    “Which, in of themselves, are completely feat less.”

    As far as i’m aware of, so are Revan’s.
    So it really shouldn’t matter.
    Also, Xemnas was able to easily trade blows with both Sora and Riku with those lightsabers, who can slash building, so there’s that.

    “Huh…. he did do that… while all powered down and everything….. Though Nobodies are a bit weird, they sort of…. flow around. They seem to be much lighter than their size would lead you to believe.”

    Or, you know, it’s just magic.
    Since when did we determine a character’s weight is low simply because they float? By that logic characters such Superman should weigh low because he can float as well.

    “That fight also took place in the ‘Dive to the heart’ Which doesn’t really abide by normal physics as is.”

    There is no evidence that says this. No one there fight’s any differently than usual.

    “So… except for speed, unless you have a vid for that?”

    “That is true, but Sora has that reaction thing, where everything looks as though it isn’t moving.”

    Even ignoring the fact that that should be powerscaled to Riku, why wouldn’t a person with lightning reactions be able to do the same thing?

  20. LadyRamkin March 29, 2015 at 9:36 am -      #20

    “Since when did we determine a character’s weight is low simply because they float? By that logic characters such Superman should weigh low because he can float as well”

    No but i mean like, Nobdies sort of zip around, go all liquidly, are very… weird.

    All im saying is that i dont think its a good idea to use that punch against the nobody to determine strength.

    “Even ignoring the fact that that should be powerscaled to Riku, why wouldn’t a person with lightning reactions be able to do the same thing?”

    Im not saying they can’t, I dont know what the world would look like to someone with lightning reactions. So i just took it as a greater speed feat.

  21. wingedlion March 29, 2015 at 10:01 am -      #21

    “No but i mean like, Nobdies sort of zip around, go all liquidly, are very… weird.

    All im saying is that i dont think its a good idea to use that punch against the nobody to determine strength.”

    I understand your doubts, however that’s more like body manipulation than them weighing less. Well, and flight.
    Regardless, it shouldn’t matter much. There’s still the other building feat that was posted for him.

    “Im not saying they can’t, I dont know what the world would look like to someone with lightning reactions. So i just took it as a greater speed feat.”

    I see. Understood, but i pretty sure that one who can react to lightning won’t have problems seeing things in frozen time.
    Either way, the feat should apply to Riku regardless.

    Anyways, does Revan have anything for time manipulation?

  22. LadyRamkin March 29, 2015 at 10:04 am -      #22

    “There’s still the other building feat that was posted for him.”

    And im toats fine with that.
    – – –
    “Either way, the feat should apply to Riku regardless.”

    Fair enough.
    – – –
    “Anyways, does Revan have anything for time manipulation?”

    Oh yeah…… Riku has stop….. Riku wins via time stops

  23. Rookie March 29, 2015 at 10:13 am -      #23

    Riku have time-stop? If yes then he wins for sure.

  24. Nsl98 March 29, 2015 at 10:17 am -      #24

    @Rookie
    And Slows….

    Yeah, I’m removing time manipulation.

  25. Commander Cross March 29, 2015 at 2:46 pm -      #25

    Is Revan at 100% Maximum Power for a fight like this?
    Also for that matter, what’s Revan’s Lightsaber Crystal Customizations for a fight like this?
    He’s gonna need something High-End for his Lightsabers to especially harm Riku, a Solari Crystal-modded Lightsaber will get Revan very far if he can hit Riku with the Lightsaber with the Crystal in question.
    Depending on how this fight Escalates, Riku could be fighting two people at once if I recall right.

  26. Friendlysociopath March 29, 2015 at 8:13 pm -      #26

    Unless Revan is massively faster than other Star Wars characters, he’s nowhere near fast enough to tango with Riku. Even calling Riku half as fast as Sora still puts him well above Jedi.

  27. LadyRamkin March 29, 2015 at 8:17 pm -      #27

    I thought EU jedi were suposed to be super duper fast

  28. Friendlysociopath March 29, 2015 at 8:46 pm -      #28

    I thought EU jedi were suposed to be super duper fast


    Not KH fast; not even close. I think the best is Hypersonic+, which pales in comparison to people that go relativistic speeds.

    For example: High Hypersonic is 19,030 mph.
    That’s Mach 25 btw, any higher and you should be at re-entry speeds.

    1/6 the Speed of Light is 111,769,438.167 mph.
    1/100th the Speed of Light is 6,706,166.29 mph.
    1/365.2 (hah) of the Speed of Light is 1,836,299.64129 mph.
    1/10,000th of the Speed of Light is 67,061.6629 mph.

    It’s just not in the cards.

  29. wingedlion March 30, 2015 at 7:55 am -      #29

    @Freindlysociopath
    “which pales in comparison to people that go relativistic speeds.”

    ???
    Did i miss something?

  30. batman3.14 March 30, 2015 at 7:59 am -      #30

    The best speed feat for Revan is when he battles the emperor in his novel: the entire duel takes only a few seconds, though it involved “crossing a 120 foot walkway twice, releasing pulses of energy, defending against immense lightning attacks, and the destruction of T3-M4″

    Source: www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/revan-respect-thread/95278/

  31. Friendlysociopath March 30, 2015 at 8:26 am -      #31

    Did i miss something?

    Reacting to Dream Eaters that quote “leave lightning in the dust”.
    Reacting to and dodging Stitch’s ship when it’s in hyperdrive.
    Dodging lightning that appears to be more natural than magic.
    And Samurai feat where everything stops moving entirely for several seconds.
    Being able to react to Monstro- who can outpace your Gummi Ship (need to look into that more)
    Plus the “laser” feat which suddenly doesn’t sound so preposterous when you look at other feats.
    and… I’m reading about Terra having a FTL bike- but that one is new to me so I need to look more into it

    Unless I missed something myself, putting all of those together means Sora is pretty damn fast when he wants to be.
    And Riku = Sora at the end of KH2
    He might even technically surpass him since Riku his a Keyblade Master and Sora is not by the end of KH:DDD

  32. Nsl98 March 30, 2015 at 8:31 am -      #32

    @Friendly
    Terra, Aqua, and Ven all have Keyblade bikes that they travel world to world in just a few seconds. That’s probably where the FTL comes from.
    —–
    And I always knew, deep down, Riku>Sora

  33. wingedlion March 30, 2015 at 8:40 am -      #33

    @Freindlysociopath
    Oh no, i knew he had fast reactions.
    I just don’t recall he himself being able to move that fast.
    That’s what i thought you were saying.

    “He might even technically surpass him since Riku his a Keyblade Master and Sora is not by the end of KH:DDD”

    No.
    That has nothing to do with strength.
    While they do test that, that’s a small part of it. The most important thing in the mark of mastery exam is the strength of your heart, not how powerful you are.
    Hence Riku being named keyblade master, as he proved himself to have a strong heart over the course of his journey.

  34. Friendlysociopath March 30, 2015 at 8:47 am -      #34

    The most important thing in the mark of mastery exam is the strength of your heart, not how powerful you are.

    But strength of the heart is what gives them all of their strength, speed and such. The keyblade is just an extension of your heart- that’s why you can just call it back to you.
    (As I understand it, I could be wrong)

    Btw, it never occurred to me until now- Tidus dodges lightning in FF10. Doesn’t apply to KH but still… that’s impressive.

  35. LadyRamkin March 30, 2015 at 8:49 am -      #35

    Aqua passed her mark of mastery exam, and all her test entailed was hitting some glowing orbs around, and the only reason she passed and Terra didn’t, is because Terra showed signs of darkness, and therefore weakness of his heart (according to master Eraqus)

  36. wingedlion March 30, 2015 at 9:06 am -      #36

    “But strength of the heart is what gives them all of their strength, speed and such.”

    No it doesn’t.
    Where did you hear that?
    Yes, the keyblade is an extension of their hearts (i think?) but it’s never stated to be the source of their strength.
    Like Rakmin said, Terra for example showed weakness in his heart, which is why he failed. Not because he was weak.
    By contrast, Riku showed his heart was strong and no longer wavered to the darkness, which is why he passed.

  37. Nsl98 March 30, 2015 at 9:13 am -      #37

    Btw, it never occurred to me until now- Tidus dodges lightning in FF10. Doesn’t apply to KH but still… that’s impressive.
    —-
    How does that effect Dissidia then?
    —-
    “But strength of the heart is what gives them all of their strength, speed and such.”

    No it doesn’t.
    Where did you hear that?


    Sora was just a regular, albeit slightly above average, human before he got a Keyblade. After that, we see him unlock his magic powers, bullet time, fight for long periods of time, and other Superhuman feats.

    I think that having a Keyblade just increases the growth rate of your abilities allowing you to access them sooner and sooner.

  38. LadyRamkin March 30, 2015 at 9:42 am -      #38

    Keyblades go to those whom undergo the inheritance ceremony. Apparently If the person they are chose to go to has their heart weakened it jumps to the nearest viable candidate, which is how Sora got his/rikus keyblade. As far as i know The Keyblade is the badass magical object and via its link to you you get super powers.

  39. Friendlysociopath March 30, 2015 at 10:53 am -      #39

    How does that effect Dissidia then?

    Helps point to everyone being superhuman, which honestly is to be expected when some of them take on giant mechs with their fists.

    Where did you hear that?

    Seemed like sound reasoning; everything in KH revolves around the Heart. Sora’s Heart and the bonds he shares with others make him stronger- so it made sense at the time.
    Beast tears a fucking hole through time and space just by virtue of having a strong heart, no magic, no keyblade.

  40. LadyRamkin March 30, 2015 at 10:59 am -      #40

    “Beast tears a fucking hole through time and space just by virtue of having a strong heart, no magic, no keyblade.”

    Um… when?

  41. Nsl98 March 30, 2015 at 11:01 am -      #41

    @Ramkin
    That’s how Beast made it to Hollow Bastion in KH1.

    Maleficent even talks to Riku about it.

  42. LadyRamkin March 30, 2015 at 11:06 am -      #42

    1) OOOOOHHH you mean Beast, as in the character, not calling Sora A beast, right, got it

    2) Hollow bastion/Radiant garden is a world much like Traverse town and Twilight town. The fact the beast was drawn there by his feeling for bell doesn’t seem like to big a stretch, considering that his world had just been destroyed and all, he was technically already out side time and space.
    – – –
    Also does anybody else here (since I am usually only one) That thinks that kingdom hearts is a multi-verse? Were each world is its own respective universe? It’s not exactly somthing i can prove but I feel there is some evidence to support it.

  43. Friendlysociopath March 30, 2015 at 11:33 am -      #43

    That thinks that kingdom hearts is a multi-verse? Were each world is its own respective universe?

    Depends how far you want to stretch “multiverse”.
    A “universe” is everything, anything- it’s all of our existence. To have a multiverse, we would need something that’s not “everything”.

    I sense that you’re going for “every world is it’s own universe”. (Mostly because that’s exactly what you said)

    In which case I would say no, it’s all one universe- remember how in KH1 you could actually see the worlds being destroyed/restored by looking at the stars in the sky?

    Also, Auron died (okay he was already dead in 10 but you get the idea) and was summoned by Hades, Lord of the Dead.

  44. LadyRamkin March 30, 2015 at 12:02 pm -      #44

    “In which case I would say no, it’s all one universe- remember how in KH1 you could actually see the worlds being destroyed/restored by looking at the stars in the sky?”

    Well, In Birth by sleep, One one of the ‘worlds’ you visit is the space ship from ‘Lilo and Stitch’ which has many various aliens in it. Which would mean that their ‘World’ would be full of many different inhabited planets. Since in birth by sleep and kingdom hearts two there are ‘barriers’ between ‘worlds’ So all of those planets would have to be just one ‘world’

    The only way to travel between worlds in via the corridors of darkness (used by the heartless and nobodies) and the lanes between (used by keyblade wielders.

    In the first kingdom hearts those barriers were shattered which is what gummi blocks are made of iirc. Which is why they didn’t need or use the lanes between.
    – – –
    “Also, Auron died (okay he was already dead in 10 but you get the idea) and was summoned by Hades, Lord of the Dead.”

    Which is a point, but in Kingdom hearts Final fantasy characters don’t have their own ‘worlds’ so…. meh

  45. Tarbel March 30, 2015 at 3:05 pm -      #45

    Where do we get these lightning dodging and bullet timing feats? You guys seem to be taking it for granted, but I did some KH calcs before and they usually didn’t show these speeds. Then again, I don’t know KH much so.

    @Friendlysociopath
    “Depends how far you want to stretch “multiverse”.
    A “universe” is everything, anything- it’s all of our existence. To have a multiverse, we would need something that’s not “everything”.”

    A universe is what we call everything. We live in it and we are a part of it. But that doesn’t mean that universe can’t be part of some multiverse, which would consist of a bunch of/all universes which exist but normally have no interaction with each other. Of course, scientifically we know of no such thing, so it’s apt to say the universe is everything. But in this case, we do know more than one exists and it’s (presumably) not just another place inside that the universe.

  46. Nsl98 March 30, 2015 at 3:20 pm -      #46

    Bullet timing: KH1, Sora can block and dodge Clayton’s shotgun rounds.

    Based on a cutscene where Donald calls down a Thunder spell, it moves really fast, and KH characters dodge Thunder pretty regularly

    In DDD, some of the Dream Eaters are flat out stated to move at supersonic speeds. Some can move faster than lightning. Sora and Riku fight effectively and dodge those.

    Then there’s the fact that Ven reacted to and dodged Stitch’s ship while it was in hyperspace

    And Monstro was outpacing Highwind in KH1, and Aqua fights evenly with Monstro in BBS.

  47. wingedlion March 30, 2015 at 6:13 pm -      #47

    “Sora was just a regular, albeit slightly above average, human before he got a Keyblade. After that, we see him unlock his magic powers, bullet time, fight for long periods of time, and other Superhuman feats.”

    Sora doesn’t unlock anything. He grows more powerful as the adventure progresses. That’s all it is. That’s kind of how keyblade wielders grow more powerful in the first place.

    “Seemed like sound reasoning; everything in KH revolves around the Heart. Sora’s Heart and the bonds he shares with others make him stronger- so it made sense at the time.”

    Except nothing at all states that someone’s strength revolves around the heart. Furthermore, that’s Sora giving a speech about how he’s learned alot from meeting so many people and making so many friends. They don’t actually affect his strength. He’s being metaphorical.
    Furthermore, Ansem the Wise, who has a strong heart, isn’t especially powerful in any sense.
    Not to mention Terra, who is a very powerful keyblade wielder easily at the level of a master but had weakness in his heart.

    “Beast tears a fucking hole through time and space just by virtue of having a strong heart, no magic, no keyblade.”

    There is one more method, the use of the “Dark Corridor”. There are those who are on a fallen path, essentially not being on the path they should be. Only those who can be said to have a Dark existence or an In-between existence can make these doorways. On rare occasion those with particularly strong feelings or hatred, such as the case with Beast and DiZ and perhaps others like them can open these paths.
    – Director’s secret report 13. About the KH worlds 2.

    Yeah, that had nothing to do with Beast’s strength. Anyone with really strong feelings can access dark corridors.

  48. batman3.14 March 30, 2015 at 6:37 pm -      #48

    Why couldn’t Revan just create a force bubble/shield to prevent Riku from attacking him and then destroy him with Force Storm? This way Revan does not have to fear about being slower than Riku. Additionally, Riku will have trouble dodging multiple huge bolts coming from the sky as opposed to a medium sized bolt from Revan’s hand. If Revan wasn’t too tired he could also force stun Riku and then slice him to pieces.

    This is all assuming that we are talking about Revan, not Darth Revan.

  49. wingedlion March 30, 2015 at 7:13 pm -      #49

    “Why couldn’t Revan just create a force bubble/shield to prevent Riku from attacking him and then destroy him with Force Storm?”

    How powerful is the shield?
    How powerful is the storm?
    How fast is Revan?
    Can he do that before Riku speedblitzs him?

    “Additionally, Riku will have trouble dodging multiple huge bolts coming from the sky as opposed to a medium sized bolt from Revan’s hand.”

    Larxene spams thundaga, which comes from the sky. Sora has no problems dodging her attacks, and he is Riku’s equal.
    Furthermore, he doesn’t even need to dodge. Riku can put up a barrier himself.
    Not to mention that he can temporarily become a shadow logia.
    www.khwiki.com/images/6/67/Dark_Roll_KH3D.gif

    “If Revan wasn’t too tired he could also force stun Riku and then slice him to pieces.”

    First off, what’s stopping Riku from casting bind and doing the same thing?
    Secondly, IIRC force stun is a projectile(forgive me if i’m wrong). Why can’t riku dodge it?
    Furthermore, Riku has survived Xemnas’s lightsabers before. Why would he be slashed to bits by Revan’s?

  50. Friendlysociopath March 30, 2015 at 7:19 pm -      #50

    Furthermore, Riku has survived Xemnas’s lightsabers before. Why would he be slashed to bits by Revan’s?

    Well those Sabers are kind of featless except for bashing into Riku- we don’t even know if they cut things.

  51. wingedlion March 30, 2015 at 7:23 pm -      #51

    “Well those Sabers are kind of featless except for bashing into Riku- we don’t even know if they cut things.”

    The thing is, from what i gather of this thread, so is Revan’s.
    So it shouldn’t matter.
    Of course, there’s also the fact that he was able to trade blows with Sora and Riku, who can slash and bash buildings.

  52. LadyRamkin March 30, 2015 at 7:24 pm -      #52

    “Not to mention that he can temporarily become a shadow logia.
    www.khwiki.com/images/6/67/Dark_Roll_KH3D.gif”

    That is so cool!!! How do you do that? Is if from one of the dream eaters??

  53. batman3.14 March 30, 2015 at 7:35 pm -      #53

    “How powerful is the shield”

    It has not shown any limits against anything jedi, sith, or bounty hunter can throw at it.

    “How powerful is the storm”

    Not enough to kill Riku but it should still hurt.

    “How fast is Revan”

    Definitely not as fast as Riku but pretty fast as Jedi go.

    “Can he do that before Riku speedblitzs him?”

    I believe so.

    I still believe putting up a force barrier should be Revan’s first move and I don’t believe that Force stun was a projectile in KOTOR where it was listed as one of his canon powers in the guide book.

    If Riku was force stunned and then substantially force drained, he wouldn’t be as quick and Revan wouldn’t have to hold his force bubble up anymore. This would let Revan gather up enough force to use force wound and injure Riku’s organs from the inside.

    “what’s stopping Riku from casting bind and doing the same thing?”

    How long does it take for him to cast bind?

  54. Friendlysociopath March 30, 2015 at 7:45 pm -      #54

    How long does it take for him to cast bind?

    A wave of the hand, in some cases he has a word he uses but not always. And he can move his hand very fast.

    It has not shown any limits against anything jedi, sith, or bounty hunter can throw at it.

    Reflect in KH has withstood Disney Hercules hitting it; and everything else that comes at it- meteors, lasers, lightning, etc.
    This Hercules still retains the feat of throwing Titans into outer space btw.

    How fast is Revan

    Best I’ve heard is Hypersonic, which is indeed not anywhere near Riku

  55. Nsl98 March 30, 2015 at 7:49 pm -      #55

    That is so cool!!! How do you do that? Is if from one of the dream eaters

    Aura Lion, iirc. One of the upgrades. REALLY saves your butt against Julius.
    —–
    How long does it take for him to cast bind?

    Riku just waves his Keyblade.

    Edit: Drat. Second time being ninja’d today. -_-

  56. wingedlion March 30, 2015 at 7:51 pm -      #56

    “It has not shown any limits against anything jedi, sith, or bounty hunter can throw at it.”

    Can it survive attacks that can slash and bash buildings?

    “Not enough to kill Riku but it should still hurt.”

    Any reason why he can’t block it with his dark barrier?
    Or why he can’t just go through it with dark roll?

    “I believe so.”

    Proof?

    “I don’t believe that Force stun was a projectile ”

    So does he just raise his hand and the target get’s stunned?

    “How long does it take for him to cast bind?”

    Here. It’s not exactly Riku doing it but it’s the same speed for all characters. I couldn’t find one with Riku.
    www.khwiki.com/images/f/fc/Bind_KHBBS.gif

    @Rakmin
    “That is so cool!!! How do you do that? Is if from one of the dream eaters”

    I think you can buy it….maybe.
    I’m not sure.

    @friendlysociopath
    “Best I’ve heard is Hypersonic, which is indeed not anywhere near Riku”

    I mean, if he is hypersonic, then no one is getting blitzed here, since there’s no proof Riku is as fast or faster than that. Just that he can react to it.

  57. batman3.14 March 30, 2015 at 7:53 pm -      #57

    Can Revan teleport into Riku’s shield and get behind him?

  58. wingedlion March 30, 2015 at 8:31 pm -      #58

    “Can Revan teleport into Riku’s shield and get behind him?”

    That’s likely going to be impossible considering how small Riku’s barrier is.

    At 7:16

    Also, what’s stopping Riku from doing the same thing to Revan’s barrier (Shadow strike, 10:22)? Keep in mind that Riku’s shadow strike leaves a slight afterimage when he teleports, tricking his opponents.

  59. Friendlysociopath March 30, 2015 at 8:33 pm -      #59

    Just that he can react to it.

    The Samurai feat begs to differ, everything else stand still for several seconds. Sora even experiencing that interlude is a strong indicator for relativistic speed AFAIK.
    I’ve asked how fast you have to go for everything around you to completely stop moving like that- I’ve yet to get an answer.

    Can Revan teleport into Riku’s shield and get behind him?

    No to the first part and subsequently probably a no on the second part.

  60. wingedlion March 30, 2015 at 8:38 pm -      #60

    “The Samurai feat begs to differ, everything else stand still for several seconds.”

    Do you know how fast that is?

    “Sora even experiencing that interlude is a strong indicator for relativistic speed AFAIK.”

    How so?

    “I’ve asked how fast you have to go for everything around you to completely stop moving like that- I’ve yet to get an answer.”

    True, but that doesn’t mean we just get to say that he’s relativistic.
    We have to find out first.
    I already submitted the feat to Tarbel. Haven’t gotten a result yet though.

    EDIT: Why the hell does that keep happening to my video?
    Hold on Batman3.14.

  61. wingedlion March 30, 2015 at 8:42 pm -      #61

    @Batman3.14
    Here.

    At 7:16

  62. Friendlysociopath March 30, 2015 at 8:51 pm -      #62

    Do you know how fast that is?

    It’s the sort of thing Flash does, isn’t Flash going lightspeed considered him being slow?

    Also, Einstein’s Theory of Relativity (As I understand it) means that the closer to lightspeed you go, the slower time becomes. Time outright stops for Sora, so I call him relativistic; going a portion of the speed of light.

  63. batman3.14 March 30, 2015 at 9:04 pm -      #63

    After watching your video wingedlion I agree that Revan cannot teleport into Riku’s shield but Riku cannot get into Revan’s as well. I do believe though that Riku cannot speedblitz him before he can put up his shield as it is pretty much spontaneous (even more so then stun). I believe the shield can hold up Riku’s attacks as it easily blocked Satele Shan’s attacks during the Battle of Yavin. Satele has brought down mountains before with her force power (the SWTOR trailer). At the same time though, Revan cannot speedblitz Riku before he puts up his shield. Both of them can stun each other as well. I think it all depends on who stuns who first and how effective Force Wound is on Riku.

  64. LadyRamkin March 30, 2015 at 9:09 pm -      #64

    “going a portion of the speed of light.”

    Isn’t every speed a portion of the speed of light? like, by default.

  65. Friendlysociopath March 30, 2015 at 9:25 pm -      #65

    Isn’t every speed a portion of the speed of light? like, by default.

    I missed the keyword, “significant” portion of the speed of light.

    Satele has brought down mountains before with her force power (the SWTOR trailer).

    Are you talking about this? Because that’s nowhere near bringing down that rock formation (and it’s certainly not a mountain)


    I do believe though that Riku cannot speedblitz him before he can put up his shield as it is pretty much spontaneous

    Got a video of him using that barrier? I’d like to see how spontaneous it is.

    So, eventually the shields go down right? Neither of these two can just leave it up forever- one way or another they have to go down.

  66. batman3.14 March 30, 2015 at 9:47 pm -      #66

    Force Bubble: www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrUi46siLLQ
    10:45

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrOJ9Sl82P4
    9:02

  67. Nsl98 March 30, 2015 at 10:29 pm -      #67

    So, at most, the force bubble has been shown to block lightsaber strikes?

    Bit outclassed by the amount of strength Riku has, if you ask me…

  68. batman3.14 March 30, 2015 at 10:33 pm -      #68

    and anything sith or jedi can throw at it….There was nothing the most powerful force users in the universe at the time could do to open up Revan’s force bubble/shield.

  69. Friendlysociopath March 30, 2015 at 10:46 pm -      #69

    There was nothing the most powerful force users in the universe at the time could do to open up Revan’s force bubble/shield.

    So lightning, lightsabers, and force pressure attacks? That’s it? Riku outputs way more energy than that, even including the girl in the trailer up there.

  70. Nsl98 March 30, 2015 at 10:48 pm -      #70

    Pride Lands battle.

    Are you referring to Lion Sora tossing around the small mountain sized Heartless? Just wondering.

  71. LadyRamkin March 31, 2015 at 7:31 am -      #71

    …..Nobody said pride lands battle….?

  72. Friendlysociopath March 31, 2015 at 7:53 am -      #72

    Huh, I did- must’ve edited it in some fashion. My delete key is currently messed up because I just get periods when I press it now.

    But yeah, I meant that- plus you know, building busting strikes at a minimum of hypersonic speeds; way more energy being used than a Jedi swinging a lightsaber or shooting force lightning.

  73. batman3.14 March 31, 2015 at 8:20 am -      #73

    okay- you win. (Riku wins) I admit my loss.

  74. Tarbel March 31, 2015 at 11:24 am -      #74

    I’m gonna analyze the “samurai” (is that what it is?) feat here.
    There are two specific cases, one where the samurai attacks and one where Sora attacks (first scene is samurai and then after is Sora):


    In the scene, as well as pretty much all the reaction time scenes, time seems to stop or slow. However, we know it is time slow because if you look carefully, it can be seen that characters still have some latent animation as well as having other moving things in the background (18:15, see how the keyblade tassles move).
    This clearly disproves the scene being lightspeed/relativistic speed because even something moving at mach 1000 would look completely still compared to lightspeed yet the tassles move, the characters have noticeable breathing animations, and the characters have a noticeable falling speed caused by gravity. I severely doubt that the tassles from the keyblade have ever oscillated at a velocity comparable to even mach 1 and that the characters breathe at those speeds either (nevermind that them falling means the time frame for the attack is in hundredths to millisecond range (while relativistic is usually nanos). Then there’s the fact that the characters never display speeds even close to relativistic outside of this reaction time game feature, so calling it relativistic just because it has time slow would be inaccurate and make it an extreme outlier. The fact that the game likes to show plenty of time slow scenes during the gameplay makes it not a feat of speed where time slows because of how fast they are going (which is pretty ridiculous to assume that the developers would factor in theory of relativity) but a third party viewers added effect where the scene is slowed down for the viewer.

    Now to actually calculate this scene, you would have to know how slowed down the scene is compared to real time, which we can’t really know unless we compare animation speed during the slow and animation speed outside the slow. I don’t exactly trust the reliability of how accurate the animations are done to reflect time slow, so the best option would be just to estimate a range of factors of time slow, treat it like a normal calc, and and apply it after.
    Sora moved ~11 feet during the attack in about half a second.
    That’s 22 feet per second (fps)
    So Sora would be moving:
    with 2x slow: @44 fps
    with 5x slow: @110 fps
    with 10x slow: @220 fps
    I wouldn’t venture that the timeslow factor is any higher than 10x because of the notability in the speed of the fall due to gravity (which as said, keeps the timeframe roughly in the hundredths to millisecond range).


    “[a]Reacting to Dream Eaters that quote “leave lightning in the dust”.
    ]b]Reacting to and dodging Stitch’s ship when it’s in hyperdrive.
    [c]Dodging lightning that appears to be more natural than magic.
    [d]And Samurai feat where everything stops moving entirely for several seconds.
    [e]Being able to react to Monstro- who can outpace your Gummi Ship (need to look into that more)
    [f]Plus the “laser” feat which suddenly doesn’t sound so preposterous when you look at other feats.
    and… I’m reading about Terra having a FTL bike- but that one is new to me so I need to look more into it”

    a) hyperbole, thus unquantifiable
    b) not knowing how their hyperdrive works, you can’t assume it was already lightspeed or FTL. also, can I see this to quantify?
    c) any summoned lightning in fiction is not necessarily relativistic speed unless specifically stated to be at that speed.
    d) accounted for earlier
    e) –
    f) if that is the omnidirectional blasting where Riku and Sora deflect them all, you need to prove they are actual lasers that travel at light speed. In game, I calculated the speed of the blasts to be somewhere in the 100mph range based on distance traveled and the amount of time it took to travel, which gives Riku and Sora extremely casual arrow timing.

  75. LadyRamkin March 31, 2015 at 11:36 am -      #75

    “However, we know it is time slow because if you look carefully, it can be seen that characters still have some latent animation as well as having other moving things in the background (18:15, see how the keyblade tassles move).”

    So instead of being really fast…. You are saying that they can initiate an immediate area of effect severe time slow?

    Which is kind of a pointless distinction, since if you slow somthing down it time, then you are moving much faster compared to it right? So you are still hitting it as though you were both moving in the same time rate but one of you was really fast.

    It basically makes key blade wielders umbra witches right?

  76. Tarbel March 31, 2015 at 11:56 am -      #76

    @LadyRamkin
    No not at all.
    It’s my bad, I didn’t mention that it’s most likely a third party time slow to begin with. But there is no indication whatsoever which reveals Sora being able to use some area timeslow except in a non-descriptive game mechanic. It’s also not a time slow due to moving relativistically. That means it’s a time slow effect to allow viewers to see in time and react.
    I later say:
    “The fact that the game likes to show plenty of time slow scenes during the gameplay makes it not a feat of speed where time slows because of how fast they are going (which is pretty ridiculous to assume that the developers would factor in theory of relativity) but a third party viewers added effect where the scene is slowed down for the viewer.”

  77. Friendlysociopath March 31, 2015 at 12:06 pm -      #77

    a) hyperbole, thus unquantifiable

    Quantifiable, faster than lightning; but take it as you please.

    b) not knowing how their hyperdrive works, you can’t assume it was already lightspeed or FTL. also, can I see this to quantify?

    www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=22102
    This is what I was going off of

    c) any summoned lightning in fiction is not necessarily relativistic speed unless specifically stated to be at that speed.

    Funny how people accept WoG for some things and not others… it behaves exactly like regular lightning in every way except people call it.

    d) accounted for earlier

    Alright then, care to show these time slows that apparently casually happen in combat to look cool?

    if that is the omnidirectional blasting where Riku and Sora deflect them all, you need to prove they are actual lasers that travel at light speed.

    Apparently game text that calls them “lasers” isn’t enough. That’s written by the developers, it’s as close to WoG as you can get in a video game. It’s not even a character telling you it- it’s an omnipotent 3rd party.

  78. LadyRamkin March 31, 2015 at 12:32 pm -      #78

    @Tarbel
    I understood almost none of that, but i am going to try and respond anyway.

    So, the initial interpretation was everything slowed right down, so Sora must be moving really quickly in order for everything to look that way.

    But since there are still some animations playing, it cant possibly be that they are moving really quickly, it is a time slow

    But its not a character/enemy initiated time slow, it is a time slow that is initiated by the game so that we can see what is happening as playrs and react….

    I don’t see how that is any different from the Sora is super fast interpretation….. If the game has to slow everything down to the point nothing moving for you to follow what is happening and then react surely Sora is then moving that fast?

    I probably horribly butchered your explanation, apologies in advance,

  79. wingedlion March 31, 2015 at 6:39 pm -      #79

    @Tarbel
    “In the scene, as well as pretty much all the reaction time scenes, time seems to stop or slow. However, we know it is time slow because if you look carefully, it can be seen that characters still have some latent animation as well as having other moving things in the background (18:15, see how the keyblade tassles move).”

    The first problem i have with this is that your first assertion is wrong. The reaction time scenes do not all have time slowed or stop, that’s only for specific reactions. There are many reaction times where everything is moving at normal speed(examples of this are in scenes around 10:30-10:47, 16:54-17:00, and 20:10-20:30, though these are just a few). Furthermore, not all scenes have time altered in the same sense. In the example you provided the characters in question still moving. In the Samurai feat, literally everyone is frozen but Sora and the samurai; none of them moves an inch. Those QTEs can’t really be compared at all.

    “Then there’s the fact that the characters never display speeds even close to relativistic outside of this reaction time game feature, so calling it relativistic just because it has time slow would be inaccurate and make it an extreme outlier.”

    That’s kind of not valid, don’t you think? Of course no one moves that fast in actual gameplay, that would be highly unfair. There’s no difficulty if the enemies your fighting cannot move at all. Furthermore, QTEs are there to show what the character is actually capable of, and from what i see we always take those over gameplay if one contradicts the other. So that can’t be really used against Sora.

    “c) any summoned lightning in fiction is not necessarily relativistic speed unless specifically stated to be at that speed.”

    From what i understand, that only applies if the spell is magically created and shows different traits from their actual counterparts. For example, the lasers that they blocked wouldn’t be considered actual lasers because they are extremely different from actual lasers. However, these problems do not apply to thunder spells in Kingdom Hearts. First of all, lightning spells in Kingdom Hearts acts just like lightning in real life, and shares all it’s properties; even coming from the sky. Which leads me to my next point; just like you said, the lightning is summoned, meaning Sora is not creating lightning through magic. He is actually calling lightning down from the sky to hit his opponent. This basically means that the lightning being used is actual lightning; Sora is only using magic to call it. So there’s no reason to assume it goes any slower.

  80. Nsl98 March 31, 2015 at 9:21 pm -      #80

    Reports entry
    You know how fast lightning is? Well, these Dream Eaters don’t… because they leave it in the dust every time.
    -Thunderaffe Journal Entry
    ——
    You know how fast lightning is?

    Yes, very fast.
    —–
    Well, these Dream Eaters don’t..

    Really? Do tell….
    —-
    because they leave it in the dust every time.
    —-
    Wow! They ARE faster than lightning! And Sora and Riku dodge them!
    —-
    Seriously, we count Samus as running around at supersonic+ speeds and stuff. Why should KH be treated any different?

  81. Tarbel April 3, 2015 at 5:59 pm -      #81

    @Friendlysociopath
    Hyperdrive clearly wasn’t moving at FTL at that moment or it would have been gone instantaneously.

    @Friendlysociopath + wingedlion
    The lightning absolutely does not behave like lightning in every other way (size, strength, sound, flash intensity, tendency for tall objects, etc). It’s only similarity is appearance and name. Calling it summoned lightning was a mistake on my part, it can only be considered magic, or magic lightning, since we don’t know any of the mechanics behind how it is created (so how could you say it behaves like regular lightning?). WoG isn’t always absolute because WoG is just a statement debaters take as a higher source for fact; they can still be exaggerated, true until proven to be actually false for twists, vaguely descriptive, referring to in-game physical laws, and/or contradictory, etc. In this case, the WoG seems contradictory to me because that means many low tiers in KH would be still faster than lightning, or something of that sort from what I understand, thus I would not assume it to be true. For more on this exact topic: www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=844496 : There are many points made that I didn’t go into specifically (lazy)


    @LadyRamkin
    Remember, I was just disproving that Sora was moving at the speed of light. You are correct and what you said, and the way to calculate it was how I did it. It’s a game mechanic force that initiates the time slow for the viewer. That means everything seen is slowed by some multiplicative factor (whether it be 2x,5x,10x, etc.) which we are not aware of the exact number (imagine the scene, normally, would be so fast that it’ll happen in a blink of an eye, so the game developers slow down the scene by some amount). So we can calculate the speed of Sora’s movement as shown during the scene> ~22 feet per second (judging the distance between them, and then how long it took to reach that distance; divide distance by time = speed). Then multiply it by the factor of time slow to get the actual speed Sora was moving at.


    @wingedlion
    Notice I said ‘pretty much all’. Also, the Samurai feat is the gray humanoid guy right? I believe that was the feat we were referring to the entire time. And in that feat, I showed that there is still some movement during the scene, the most explicit movement being the movement of Sora’s keyblade tassle/chain. I also wasn’t trying to compare all QTEs with each other, just the ones where time is noticeably slowed.

    How do we know that QTEs are all showing what the character is truly capable of? Why is it not the normal gameplay that shows what the character is truly capable of? You are asserting a double standard for KH where the low end showings don’t count as much as the high end showings when both are quantifiable. Keep in mind that the low end showings I’m referring to aren’t the walking/running speeds during non-QTE gameplay, but the low end showings of other QTEs. Assuming the Samurai feat was relativistic, why would Sora ever have any trouble with other clearly non-relativistic enemies or attacks? It’s like saying, for example, that a person that takes some time and/or difficulty while seriously fighting regular supersonic foes is somewhat casually able to react to and attack at speeds a thousand times faster than that.
    Interpreting that specific QTE as relativistic in such a vague and inconsistent manner makes no sense, especially when interpreting something as relativistic because of the slowing of time has never been a valid method of making a calc.


    @Nsl98
    Technically, to leave lightning in the dust, you would just have to make dust where it is about to hit. Since the context is that of briefness, they could be making that dust trail by quickly running over the area which lightning is going to strike. So the area could be filled with dust, then the lightning hits, and so the lightning was left in dust. And they could do this every time.
    Also, since Dream Eaters are enemies in the actual game, I presume, then you could very easily figure how fast they are just by looking at how fast they are, instead of simply relying on a statement. I don’t think KH will implement enemies that zip across the screen in a couple of frames so..

    As I haven’t done any of her calcs, I have been lazy enough to just assume Samus’ speed based on popular opinion (because she is well known enough character).

  82. wingedlion April 4, 2015 at 6:55 pm -      #82

    @Tarbel
    “The lightning absolutely does not behave like lightning in every other way (size, strength, sound, flash intensity, tendency for tall objects, etc). It’s only similarity is appearance and name. Calling it summoned lightning was a mistake on my part, it can only be considered magic, or magic lightning, since we don’t know any of the mechanics behind how it is created (so how could you say it behaves like regular lightning?).”

    There is nothing suggesting that the lightning that Sora is using is being magically created by him. He is calling it from the sky. Sure, it might not share every single trait lightning may have, but lots of fictions have something happening that do not share traits compared to their real-world counterpart(for example, Samus using shinespark doesn’t break the sound barrier even though it moves at supersonic speeds). Yet we accept them regardless. So i don’t see why it’s speed should be treated differently from real lightning, especially since it’s not magically created lightning.

    “WoG isn’t always absolute because WoG is just a statement debaters take as a higher source for fact; they can still be exaggerated, true until proven to be actually false for twists, vaguely descriptive, referring to in-game physical laws, and/or contradictory, etc. In this case, the WoG seems contradictory to me because that means many low tiers in KH would be still faster than lightning, or something of that sort from what I understand, thus I would not assume it to be true. For more on this exact topic”

    Why would WoG not be absolute? It always has been. I don’t see why the views of a different site on WoG have to do with how it’s treated on BankGambling. Sure, they might treat it differently, but on BankGambling WoG has always been taken to be the highest source of proof. As NsI98 already mentioned, Samus is an example of this as shinespark does not look like it’s supersonic at all, and yet we take it as such because the description of it says so. Another example of this is Sonic, whose lightspeed dash is actually stated to be light speed despite it not looking like it at all, yet we still take it as lightspeed. WoG are the author’s statements on his/her own work, and considering he/she is the one who wrote the fiction it makes no sense to believe the statement to be untrue, since it’s their work. Hence the term Word of God.
    As for low tiers being lightning speed, that also doesn’t make much sense. In the first place, those are the only fodder that are stated to go at lightning speed, and they are only fought by Sora and Riku, so only the keyblade wielders and the organization(well the true one, the original one might be a bit iffy) would be capable of these reactions. Donald and Goofy certainly as hell don’t get them, nor do any other low tiers, so i don’t see how low tiers would be faster than lightning.

    “Notice I said ‘pretty much all’. Also, the Samurai feat is the gray humanoid guy right? I believe that was the feat we were referring to the entire time. And in that feat, I showed that there is still some movement during the scene, the most explicit movement being the movement of Sora’s keyblade tassle/chain. I also wasn’t trying to compare all QTEs with each other, just the ones where time is noticeably slowed.”

    You said the scene at 18:15, which is his limit command with Jack Skellington. So I assumed you were talking about that one. Sorry. Regardless if you are talking about the samurai one(I’m assuming it’s the one in 30:25), while the keychain is still moving, it still moving seems kind of like a nitpick to me, since it’s such a small detail the developers can easily miss. It’s still a fact that the other characters are frozen. This honestly seems no different from my earlier example of supersonic characters not breaking the sound barrier, mainly because this doesn’t change the fact that he is moving so fast that everyone is frozen. How is discrediting this feat because one item was moving any different from trying to discredit someone going supersonic despite not breaking the sound barrier? Are we going to ignore the fact that everyone else is still frozen?

    “How do we know that QTEs are all showing what the character is truly capable of? Why is it not the normal gameplay that shows what the character is truly capable of? You are asserting a double standard for KH where the low end showings don’t count as much as the high end showings when both are quantifiable.”

    I’m not asserting a double standard at all. We have always taken QTEs over normal gameplay because their playable cutscenes. That has always been the case. This isn’t just for Sora. Bayonetta, Kratos, Nero, all of these characters who have QTEs in their games have been measured with those feats. Gameplay can potentially be faulty to measure a character with it as the purpose of gameplay is to have fun; for it to be a challenging game. There not actually going to have you no sell or one shot any or every enemy in the game cause that would be extremely stupid; it goes against the player having a challenging or fun game. Of course i’m not saying that gameplay can’t be used, but QTEs has always been considered to be above them.

    “Keep in mind that the low end showings I’m referring to aren’t the walking/running speeds during non-QTE gameplay, but the low end showings of other QTEs.”

    Oh, i see. My bad. That’s completely different.

    “Assuming the Samurai feat was relativistic, why would Sora ever have any trouble with other clearly non-relativistic enemies or attacks? It’s like saying, for example, that a person that takes some time and/or difficulty while seriously fighting regular supersonic foes is somewhat casually able to react to and attack at speeds a thousand times faster than that.”

    Making a couple of assumptions here. Where are you getting that Sora struggles with people slower than this?
    Are you talking about Organization 13? Cause Sora does not have a problem with taking them out, not to mention the Organization members themselves are pretty decently strong in the KH universe.
    Are you talking about fodder enemies? Cause Sora has never shown to have problems with fodder either unless it’s the beginning of the game, which makes complete sense because that’s when he’s at his weakest. As i mentioned earlier on, Sora grows stronger as the adventure progresses. It makes sense for him to have feats that are completely amazing compared to their other feats. Hell, literally most of the entire game of KH 2 Sora is at if not less than half of his power, and only achieves his full power when Roxas awakens within him.
    With that being said, i myself am not even sure if moving so fast no one else is moving is enough to be relativistic, so if it’s not then that’s fine.

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