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Initial bets on Naruto caus Hax & Speed.
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Raditz likely has greater durability. (survived piccolos moon busting attack right?)
His power output might be difficult to quantify.
Naruto has got to be worth at least 1.5 Raditz on hax alone. Especially with that moon feat.
The Special Beam Cannon is what killed him so as far as I know he hasn’t survived a moon level attack. The first time he managed to dodge it but he definitely got killed by the one that hit him.
Then wouldn’t that put Raditz’s durability at less than Naruto’s?
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Naruto tanked that moon splitting attack.
Probably, though I’m not 100 percent certain. need to watch the real fight again.
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Also Shadow Clones will likely be a problem for Raditz….since he was beaten by the fact Goku could grab him and let Piccolo hit him.
As far as I know Goku’s physical strength was still lower than Naruto’s casually tossing several thousand ton animals like softballs level. So if a shadow clone or two decide to grab Raditz’s arms he’s probably not moving.
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Then there’s the Rasenshurikens….which is like a tornado full of tiny Destructo Disks inside an exploding Destructo Disk that can expand.
On top of the whole matter erasing thing, when stabbed into someone TSB can also disrupt their ability to use their chakra.
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Meaning that they’d not only bypass Raditz’s durability, but also stop him from even being able to use his Ki at all. 😆
@Shgon
since you mention chakra=ki stuff….since TSB’s cancel out the energy…would a TSB shield essentially null any attacks Raditz throws?
Remember when Master Roshi also blew up the moon? In the instant before Oozaru Goku was gonna attack? After a challenging fight with Goku where he also used a lot of power to initiate his other special technique against Goku?
Here let’s remind ourselves:
view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+04&page=97
view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+04&page=106
view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+04&page=107
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And we know that Goku at this point in the series is much stronger than Roshi.
Now remember when Raditz blocks Goku’s Kamehameha with just his hand?
Let’s refresh our memory:
view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+14&page=101
view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+14&page=102
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So sure, Goku’s Kamehameha may not have been fully charged, but we are still talking about at least a portion of energy of capable of busting a moon. Raditz may not be fully moon level in durability, but he is pretty darn close, and I would argue he is when you consider that Piccolo has has tanked a Goku’s Super Kamehameha, and just got his clothes shredded.
Piccolo tanking Super Kamehameha:
view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+13&page=90
view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+13&page=91
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What Raditz is capable of dishing out casually:
view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+14&page=86
view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+14&page=87
view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+14&page=88
Notice in scan three, an explosion spanning some mountains from a long distance away, so we know that they aren’t just some tiny hill sized mountains.
Triple post.
Strengthwise, Raditz, nor any other character at this point in the series, have shown feats capable of matching Naruto. So I think the clones will be a problem. However, speed may be on Radit’s side because we know Tao Pai Pai is capable of leaping onto a pillar traveling at ~Mach 7.5 (2555.56 m/s):
view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+06&page=169
view.thespectrum.net/series/dragon-ball-volume-01.html?ch=Volume+06&page=170
Some calculation to see how fast Tao was when he leaped:
Distance from the pillar after Tao throws it ~= 30 meters
Distance from where he leaped to the pillar when he landed on it ~= 300 meters
Assuming the time from when he throws the pillar to when he jumps on it is negligible, then he jumps a distance of ~300 meters in the time it takes the pillar to move ~270 meters.
270m/2555.56m/s = 0.105652 s
300m/0.105652s = 2,839 m/s
So Tao Pai Pai can, for an instant, leap at firmly Mach 8.
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At Saiyan Saga point, the characters are far faster, Raditz being the fastest of them all.
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Also, what’s TSB?
“What Raditz is capable of dishing out casually:”
seems less impressive when you realize Naruto can do six explosions that dwarf mountain ranges casually.
i23.mangapanda.com/naruto/677/naruto-4964707.jpg
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And did nine later on
i2.mangapanda.com/naruto/688/naruto-5100769.jpg
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And then you realize the shockwaves of two of those colliding with Sasuke’s attack could be felt three countries away…and remember Naruto can make nine of them.
i38.mangapanda.com/naruto/697/naruto-5257107.jpg
i17.mangapanda.com/naruto/697/naruto-5257113.jpg
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those two explosions somehow seem less impressive.
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“Piccolo has has tanked a Goku’s Super Kamehameha, and just got his clothes shredded.”
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So moon level durability Piccolo lost his arm to a mountain busting attack? The one you just posted…that blew off Piccolo’s arm. Or are you suggesting those were moon level+ attacks that hit but barely damaged the planet?
@Tarbel
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“Also, what’s TSB?”
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Magic balls: naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Truth-Seeking_Ball
“Also, what’s TSB”
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sphere’s of chakra that are all the chakra natures combined. They cancel out any chakra based attacks without Senjutsu/Nature energy (so say something like the Spirit Bomb). And also destroy targets on the atomic/molecular level if they hit.
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As for speed, Naruto’s high end has been hypersonic for a while now.
Quick question that I don’t really know where to ask:
Are bullet-timers able to keep up with people who leave afterimages? Or vice versa?
“So moon level durability Piccolo lost his arm to a mountain busting attack? The one you just posted…that blew off Piccolo’s arm. Or are you suggesting those were moon level+ attacks that hit but barely damaged the planet?”
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Destructive capacity does not exactly equate to the power of the attack. I’m not saying they were moon level, but they were certainly in the general area. Energy based attacks do not need to be of a certain destructive capacity to have the energy capable doing it if not more.
Any moon level attack would be felt all over the planet if that were the intention of it, but energy like ki, or chakra, or cosmic energy can be condensed in a fashion that its collateral effect is lessened and all of the energy is focused on the primary target.
@Friendlysociopath
“Quick question that I don’t really know where to ask:
Are bullet-timers able to keep up with people who leave afterimages? Or vice versa?”
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I would say after images that are done through speed is probably far greater than a borderline bullet timer.
There’s nothing to say that Goku’s Kamehameha’s are always moon-busting.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8Vt6UTD7i8
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Look at around 7 minutes. Goku mentions he used the Kamehameha, and the nearby country…wasn’t obliterated.
If only Raditz had more showings of his power. I know he’s the joke weak character, but it would make matches like this easier to do without the need for powerscaling.
I wonder how many Raditz Naruto is worth…
I wonder how many Raditz Naruto is worth…
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Well surely we can just use power levels to scale up his speed and strength to match his closest DBZ counterpart?
@Friendly Don’t know, 1 saibaman is worth one Raditz, and Yamcha got taken out by one, so he’s less than a Raditz, so what can Yamcha do?
Beats me, the only DBZ knowledge I have is through TFS and whoever happens to be in earshot in the gaming lounge. That was also something of a joke.
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Anyone else have views on casual bullet-timers vs people with afterimages? Same ballpark? Worlds apart? Would each be able to at least keep track of one another?
Regarding afterimages, that’s faster than a bullet. Bullets don’t leave after images.
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I don’t think a bullet timer could keep track of someone like that, but I’m probably wrong.
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Just curious, why do you ask? Match idea?
@Friendly I was mostly joking, I’ve read the manga, but never watched the anime (at least not all of it). almost all the feats for Raditz is just powerscaling, claims, and powerlevels… So, kinda hard to find any actual feats for him.
Regarding afterimages, that’s faster than a bullet. Bullets don’t leave after images.
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I don’t think that’s how it works. That’s why I’m asking around here.
From my brief Google searches, leaving an afterimage involves you going somewhere between 200-600 mph (again, I don’t entirely know) whereas reacting to and blocking machine-gunfire would be reacting to hundreds of projectiles going around 1,000 mph.
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Just curious, why do you ask? Match idea?
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No, my next animation.
I know of no known phenomenon that leaves afterimages. I’m not saying it can’t happen…but I don’t know what the heck kinda speed would cause it. At the moment, this question is kind of like “Which is more powerful, a grenade or a unicorn?”
If we were going to power scale….well Naruto did no sell that 159 teraton moon slicing energy beam. no idea where that stands on the boom boom scale other than pretty much all life on earth would be fucked were an explosion of that magnitude to happen. And was later able to punch through the same..so Naruto should be somewhat close-ish to moon level.
“no idea where that stands on the boom boom scale other than pretty much all life on earth would be fucked were an explosion of that magnitude to happen.”
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The impact that wiped out the dinosaurs was 100 Teratons.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicxulub_crater#Effects
That should tell you what it did.
“I wonder how many Raditz Naruto is worth…”
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How man Raditz was piccolo worth(2, 3), he was moon level. Naruto would probably around that range. Maybe a little more cuz hax-y magic balls… lol.
@Aelfinn
oh I know its a wipe out all life on earth deal, I meant more in the I don’t know what an explosion that size would do to the moon/compared to how much it takes to blow up the moon outright.
@Councilor Aelfinn at #17
Because Goku was fighting to save Gohan at the time and it wasn’t anywhere near assured Gohan could have survived from a Kamehameha Wave of Moon-busting+ Magnitude if Goku misses?
Though partially speaking it can be chalked up to Martial Arts and Crafts involved too, always a must-have when dealing with Supernatural Firepower the kind that Early!-Saiyan Saga Goku was carrying on him.
At #26:
Also depends on the Grenade and Unicorn respectively we’re talking about, since they tend to vary so much it’s not funny, granted that’s a Rhetorical question but still.
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@CHCH1 at #24
Was that before or after Yamcha learned the Kaio-ken by chance?
Given how Yamcha only got around to knowing the Kaio-ken by the time DragonBall Xenoverse rolls around, but not before or when Goku did, of course Saiyan Saga!-Yamcha got killed by a ‘mere’ Saibaman, who’s worth 1 Raditz.
Speaking of Dragon Ball Xenoverse, does Raditz get DragonBall Xenoverse Showings on his part included as well since it raises his Power Levels and Stats?
Villainous Raditz(mostly matter if Xenoverse showings are allowed, but eh, the point is it’s canon to the Dragon Ball Multi-verse, which has 48 Galaxies from 12 Universes.) below.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLDuEUP8in8
Next up will be the part on Yamcha having Kaio-Ken from DragonBall Xenoverse.
I hope this clears up some matters and helps addresses more.
(2:02) of the following vid.
Pretty sure the events of Xenoverse are either non-canon or an AU
uproxx.com/gammasquad/2015/02/this-dragon-ball-z-fan-film-is-way-better-than-dragon-ball-evolution/
Anyone check this out btw?
Assuming every Kamehameha thrown after Roshi nuked the moon is at moon-busting level is a spectacularly bad idea.
bad ideas aside where do you stand on the debate at large?
This destructive capacity debate is probably much better suited for a forum thread. I’ve been thinking of making a DBZ respect thread for a while and I would explain my whole reasoning behind moon level power in non moon-busting attacks. But I don’t know if I’ll ever get the time to..
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As for Naruto vs Raditz, I don’t think it’ll be a stomp, but it will almost definitely be a win for Naruto regardless.
Well at least its a fair fight (which is what I had hoped)
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Wish it could get more debate since I think its FP Award worthy for Naruto.
Hey does Galvatron have any feats that would let him stand up to EoS Naruto? Could that be a good fight?
Dude, I like Galvatron and all, but I don’t think there are any version of him that can take EoS Naurto.
He’s a nuke shooting dude, and Naruto characters have done that casually like sipping tea.
Galvatron doesn’t have any moon level feats.
/
Granted, I haven’t read any Marvel Transformers comic and didn’t see Transformers Energon or Cybertron(these two shows are pretty bad Transformers shows, so there’s my excuse for not watching that).
Well I’ve heard some people talking about comic Galvatron vs Frieza, though that feels a bit….high.
Well, I’m pretty unfamiliar with IDW Transformers too, so I can’t really speak for it either.
All I saw was that IDW Megatron had a rail gun on his arm that can destroy a city on earth without being fully charged.
/
Assuming Transformers vs Avengers had no PIS in it, Megatron with the fusion cannon easily defeated Ironman, who had to upgrade his tech to cybertronian tech(may be less surprising to know that it uses anti-matter to create nuclear explosions).
/
Other than that, I’m unfamiliar, and really ashamed for it.
I should read some more Transformers comic.
Yeah I wish I had read more of them.
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If I wasn’t pretty sure she’s FTL I’d wonder if N52 Wonder Woman could work but…again pretty sure she’s FTL.
There was a time I’d have said Naruto vs Kratos but he solos the verse now.
Maybe Red Hulk could work.
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Megatron/Galvatron does need another match too I just can’t think of a match that just screams epic matchup.