Amestris Vs Earth Empire

Amestris Vs Earth Empire

Suggested by JD

Amestris (Fullmetal Alchemist), makes first appearence here going up against Earth Empire (also first appearence here) from Legend of Korra.

Round 1: Without Kuvira’s mech

Round 2: With Kuvira’s mech

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184 Comments on "Amestris Vs Earth Empire"

  1. Friendlysociopath February 8, 2015 at 11:00 pm -      #101

    Alright, so the best I can determine based on China’s history of population and military numbers is that the Earth Empire (centered on budding industrial China) should be at most 3 million for the army numbers- and it should probably be less, but 3 million is the ballpark area.
    (Funnily enough, China’s military numbers have shrank a bit over the years)

    Additional fun fact, Amestris can create philosopher stones without using souls. They can use blood as shown in the Sacred Star of Milos. 50 million people ought to be able to give a good hunk of blood. Heck, they can give all of their blood and then sacrifice their bodies to become armor-troops.

  2. Belisaurius February 8, 2015 at 11:02 pm -      #102

    I wonder how hard it would be to trick Kuvira’s army into a transmutation circle?

    @Hac
    Amestris has an extensive railway network. The map up in the intro image is actually a map of the Amestrian rail system.

    As for the Earth Kingdom railways. I’m fairly certain they run on benders. There was a similar system in TLA and I don’t see why the would change it. Furthermore, I’m not certain how they’d use mag-lev as they don’t have the extensive electric network and computing systems to make monorails work.

    Kuvira’s mobility is due entirely to her trains. However, her trains are incompatable to Amestrian rails. As such, Kuvira’s mobility and logistics would be hobbled as soon as she entered Amestris. Airships are almost a non-factor. Their maximum lift weight is fairly low and they aren’t particularly swift. They also will be fodder for AAA until the Earth empire can give them all proper paint jobs.

    A defensive country is exactly what’s needed to beat Kuvira. Kuvira is a dictator. She rules through the power of her armies. However, Kuvira isn’t popular with her people. Most regions were effectively strong-armed into the empire and her draconian policies of re-education camps make her feared, not loved. As a result, Kuvira is dependent on her military in order to maintain control. If she looses enough of her army she might have rebellions pop up.

    Amestris, on the other hand, is a parlimentary republic with a popular war hero at it’s head. It’s politically stable and has existed as such for some time.

    @Jake
    The Earth Empire lacks gun.

    More specificly, they lack anti-tank weapons that can pierce armor from half a dozen kilometers away.

    They lack artillery that can wipe entire platoons off the map with a single shot.

    They lack mortars and canister shot and all the horrific things modern war has.

    And more importantly, Kuvira’s army hasn’t faced anything more than bandits. By all accounts they have no real experience whatsoever. Amestris, on the other hand, has suffered through wars with two beligerant neighbors and maybe half a dozen rebellions (provoked by Father, ofcourse.).

  3. Warlock Lowk February 8, 2015 at 11:20 pm -      #103

    “With bending you often need to move your entire body.”

    A stomp or raised arm is enough to bring up a suitable cover. Also as shown with pro-bending they are that restricted anymore.
    ===
    “A gunman just needs to move their arm and finger.”

    So pretty much the same amount effort to turn a cannonball sized rock into well, a cannonball.
    Its the bigger or more complex stuff that requires extra movement. They can luanch smaller stuff with quick gestures.
    ===
    “By the time an earthbender has raised a barricade a good gunslinger could pop off a couple shots. I shouldn’t need to remind you that Amestris has semi-automatic rifles, do I?”

    And if this were a single earthbender vs a single gunman at range where they start off gun at the ready you might have something. But unless they got a lot of hawkeyes people will miss barricades will be brought up.
    This is of course assuming that they don’t bring it up before actually entering combat.
    ===
    ” Guns have better range than benders.”

    But less defensive options.
    ===
    “Expert snipers, like Riza Hawkeye, have been known to kill targets a kilometer away or more.”

    And I noted snipers will probably be amoung the most dangerous threat along with the alchemist, the giant death ray, father and metalbender in an urban enviornment where range can be less of an issue.
    ===
    “It’s pretty easy to dodge the rock from an earth bender but it’s not possible to dodge a bullet.”

    Aim dodging is a possibilty though.
    And trying to aim while dodging cannon ball like rocks is going to negetively affect aiming.
    ===
    “Most earth benders can’t see with their feet. That seems to be the privilege of Toph and her daughters. Thus, earthbenders need to have line of sight with their targets.”

    Its a trainable skill. That isn’t limited a specific bloodline.
    Beside that you don’t need line of sight to bring down a building on someone. You just have to know the building they are in.
    ===
    “A leap frog advanced between earth bended cover would be the best answer to counter the long range of riflemen but it’s a slow method and vulnerable to mortars and grenades.”

    1. They can hold earth up while moving.
    2. The can push and/or expand thier cover.
    3. They have cars trucks and tank that they can bend from.
    They don’t have to leap frog through cover.
    ===
    “But the Amestrians are still going to be picking Earth Empire soldiers off.”

    Maybe if they were all like a certian blonde sniper lady. You seem to be under the impression that they are.
    ===
     “I’m fairly certain they run on benders.”

    You do realize that in LoK age they have engines, right? Like legit engines.
    Also iirc unlike the old one, these run on metal tracks.
    ===
    “They lack artillery that can wipe entire platoons off the map with a single shot.”

    They have a cannon that can slice through multiple building in a single sweep. That has multiple shots. They are capable of building more.

  4. Warlock Lowk February 8, 2015 at 11:40 pm -      #104

    “Furthermore, I’m not certain how they’d use mag-lev as they don’t have the extensive electric network and computing systems to make monorails work.”

    He said about the series that was capable of building a building size mobile drill. functioning battlesuits with electric guns, and a skyscraper sized mech.
    ===
    “Kuvira’s mobility is due entirely to her trains. However, her trains are incompatable to Amestrian rails.”

    You do realize the ability to build regular, none maglev railway; has existed for several decades before the events of LoK even started?

  5. itcheyness February 9, 2015 at 12:30 am -      #105

    Do we have any concrete (or even ballpark) numbers for the Earth Empire Army?

  6. Cassie Hack February 9, 2015 at 12:32 am -      #106

    Is Sacred Star of Milos canon to Brotherhood, because I thought none of the movies are. I don’t think it takes place during the series at all, and it definitely doesn’t take place after the series.

  7. Warlock Lowk February 9, 2015 at 1:00 am -      #107

    Can’t find a concrete number for Earth nation. Here have a complimentary image of Kuvira being Darth Vader
    41.media.tumblr.com/e44150b3a989815df667047b55718472/tumblr_neba3hOAWh1s0aktyo1_500.png
    ===
    Did find out that legend of korra era was based on 1920 china, which had a population of around 400,000,000.

  8. Ragnorke February 9, 2015 at 4:21 am -      #108

    Being based on an Era doesn’t mean sharing the numbers…
    I mean, it’s just an unsupported guess.

  9. Belisaurius February 9, 2015 at 8:38 am -      #109

    If we assume that each block of troops are about one regiment of about a thousand or so troops than Kuvira’s army numbers in the tens or hundreds of thousands.

    Also, never go into urban combat if your opponent has grenades and you don’t.

    @Warlock

    They have exactly one strategic level beam cannon which was created only with the help of a mad scientist.

  10. Shgon Dunstan February 9, 2015 at 8:45 am -      #110

    “They have exactly one strategic level beam cannon which was created only with the help of a mad scientist.”

    But they can make more.


    And though I’m sure it’s been said over a dozen times by now, yes, the EE will seal gun tech out from under their nose so fast it will make Amestris’s collective heads spin. :lol:

    If Benders have to fight a gun using army, Earthbenders are by far the best equip for it, but that aside, the EE is big enough to just pay the butcher’s bill until they gain the ability to start firing back.

  11. Warlock Lowk February 9, 2015 at 10:30 am -      #111

    “They have exactly one strategic level beam cannon which was created only with the help of a mad scientist.”

    Kuvira disposable love intrest knows how its constructed as do the scientist who actually helped build it. That said they should still have said mad scientist to do the thing.
    ===
    “And though I’m sure it’s been said over a dozen times by now, yes, the EE will seal gun tech out from under their nose so fast it will make Amestris’s collective heads spin.”

    Also this. Avatar has a histroy of going “hey look how well this works, lets build a shitton more.”

  12. Hac148 February 9, 2015 at 11:05 am -      #112

    If anything, they will do it better. And bending based. Think about that, metal bender rifleman. That lone sniper is a hell of a lot better when he can adjust the trajectory of his shot mid flight, more so given modern snipers work in two man teams, giving two benders for the job.

    For those of you pointing out the single kuvira mech, i give you the same reasoning you give me, they can make more. The mech is no different to the EE than a tank is in Amestris. both share the features of: 1. Only one is seen in the entire series, and 2. It is a fairly new technology to the world. Given kuvira’s tendency to capture enemy forces and enslave them, we would not only have benders helping produce a second one, but enslaved alchemists as well. So while Amestris has their tank fleet to work on as the war begins, Kuvira is taking a decidedly more giant mech with a death ray approach to it. Given the massive abundancy of spirit vines seen throughout the season the EE is in, even several dozen mechs will have no shortage of ammunition as they flatten amestris.

  13. Friendlysociopath February 9, 2015 at 11:26 am -      #113

    For those of you pointing out the single kuvira mech, i give you the same reasoning you give me, they can make more.

    Actually no, your reasoning is not the same. Amestris makes objects of similar size and composition regularly.

    The EE has that one mech and nothing else approaching it in size or scale.

    The EE also would seem to use actual factories to create their machines, meaning Amestris could easily build 10x more than they could in the same time.

    And feel free to give evidence showing metal-benders have the feats to catch/turn bullets after they’re fired.

    Or the counter to using the giant transmutation circle that is Amestris to just disintegrate the incoming army.

  14. Hac148 February 9, 2015 at 11:40 am -      #114

    “Or the counter to using the giant transmutation circle that is Amestris to just disintegrate the incoming army.”

    Well, considering it would also take out every single person in it, as it killed everyone except father, and would have were it not for hoenheim, i doubt they are going to wipe out their entire country just to kill however many soldiers come in.

    The thing about transmutation circles is that the large ones require you to corral a bunch of people into an area. If you have no care for collateral damage, like Kimblee, sure, it can be very effective. But if you are going to wipe out a platoon of EE soldiers by using the bait of a platoon of your own, its hardly worth the effort.

    “Amestris makes objects of similar size and composition regularly.”

    Yet again, they have made all of a single tank in the entirety of canon. So no, they dont make similar objects. If your referencing vehicles, there is a bit of a difference between a jeep and a fucking tank. And if your going to use that as an equivalency, Kuvira makes things of equal complexity all the time in the form of the mech suits, the giant merely being one to larger scale.

  15. Secrecy27 February 9, 2015 at 11:44 am -      #115

    And bending based. Think about that, metal bender rifleman. That lone sniper is a hell of a lot better when he can adjust the trajectory of his shot mid flight

    Granted, I never reached this part of LoK, but in LoA earth-benders were required to touch an object to bend it, has this changed?

  16. Warlock Lowk February 9, 2015 at 11:47 am -      #116

    “The EE has that one mech and nothing else approaching it in size or scale.”

    vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/avatar/images/b/b1/Fire_Nation_drill.png/revision/latest?cb=20140417220145
    ^That was 70 year ago built without the advancement in, well; everything.
    Jump to now I don’t think it even took a year to construct the mech either.

  17. Belisaurius February 9, 2015 at 11:54 am -      #117

    “And though I’m sure it’s been said over a dozen times by now, yes, the EE will seal gun tech out from under their nose so fast it will make Amestris’s collective heads spin.”

    By the same virtue, Amestris will copy Earth Empire flying machines more or less instantly. With their technological edge, Amestrian air power would actually be at an advantage, being able to mount machine guns for aerial combat.

    Furthermore, you’re overestimating how good Earth Empire engineers are. The Avatar-verse has never used gunpowder before and doesn’t understand how they work. They’d have to figure out how to make primers through trial and error and every error with primers tend to end in a factory blowing up.

    “For those of you pointing out the single kuvira mech, i give you the same reasoning you give me, they can make more.”

    A Panzer IV could be made by any car factory with some minimal retooling. The Amestrian designers created it as a side project out on the ass end of nowhere.

    Kuvira’s mech is a giant platinum monstrocity half a dozen stories tall and powered by a dangerously unstable mass of spirit vines. The entire thing was so complex that it’s doubtful than anyone but Kuvira could pilot it with any measure of skill. Moreover, it’s not particularly fast and thus vulnerable to indirect fire. This is unfortunate as an entire facility with extensive underground sections were required to build the cannon alone.

    As for the spirit vine cannon, it’s a direct fire wave motion gun that’s the scale of railway artillery. It needs line of sight to attack and if it can see it’s target it’s target can see it.

    Judging from the fact an arcwielder could cut through its armor, it’s likely that Kuvira’s mech has relatively thin armor, perhaps only a few centimeters at best.

    In this case the 75mm cannon of the Briggs tank would be able to penetrate it.

  18. Warlock Lowk February 9, 2015 at 12:02 pm -      #118

    “Granted, I never reached this part of LoK, but in LoA earth-benders were required to touch an object to bend it, has this changed?”

    Earthbender have deflect/redirected objects flying at them without touching them. Same for with metalbenders.

  19. Secrecy27 February 9, 2015 at 12:14 pm -      #119

    Earthbender have deflect/redirected objects flying at them without touching them. Same for with metalbenders

    Can you please give me some proof of this? Every time I saw Eartbenders fight oneanother they either block, throws another object at or breaks the projectile. Never saw them redirect it.

  20. Hac148 February 9, 2015 at 12:27 pm -      #120

    “Can you please give me some proof of this?”

  21. Hac148 February 9, 2015 at 12:28 pm -      #121

    doubles as an example of the capability of earthbenders, and this is antiquated, as metalbending is a fairly common skill within EE

  22. Hac148 February 9, 2015 at 12:31 pm -      #122

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGbN_fIoX0o

    more in case you dont have the time/patience for the first video

  23. Belisaurius February 9, 2015 at 12:40 pm -      #123

    @Hac

    But again, we see bending at short ranges. Maybe only a few dozen feet at best. Most earthbenders need to be right on top of the earth they want to bend.

  24. Warlock Lowk February 9, 2015 at 12:42 pm -      #124

    “By the same virtue, Amestris will copy Earth Empire flying machines more or less instantly. With their technological edge, Amestrian air power would actually be at an advantage, being able to mount machine guns for aerial combat.”

    Then in which case both sides now have ships guns.
    Also how do they have technological advantage?
    ===
    “As for the spirit vine cannon, it’s a direct fire wave motion gun that’s the scale of railway artillery. It needs line of sight to attack and if it can see it’s target it’s target can see it.”

    Bullshit. That thing has crazy range and just as insane if not more penetrative power. Unless your hiding behind layers of buildings or plot armor, It doesn’t need line of sight, it need a general direction and the punch through will do the rest.
    ===
    “Furthermore, you’re overestimating how good Earth Empire engineers are. The Avatar-verse has never used gunpowder before and doesn’t understand how they work.”

    Same stuffed used to make fireworks. Something they’ve had for a while. Don’t think its going to be that big of a shock. How its used might be but its existance and what it does shouldn’t be.
    ===
    “Can you please give me some proof of this? Every time I saw an Eartbender fight they either block, throws another object at or breaks the projectile. Never saw them redirect it.”

    youtu.be/OHv_TKM8kMA
    0:38 seconds in
    Other then that a zipper was closed without the bender touch it. Same with how armor is put on.

  25. Warlock Lowk February 9, 2015 at 12:50 pm -      #125

    How used are tanks in fma. I can only recall at two instances of it and I thought it was the same one.
    Becuase mechs and tanks are pretty abundant on EE side.

  26. Secrecy27 February 9, 2015 at 1:05 pm -      #126

    @Hac148
    Eh, the first video did nothing to disprove my point, the only thing actually usable in that vid is when Toht lowers the dust…

    The second I didn’t watch, but the video Warlock Lowk posted is exacly what I was looking for.

  27. Shgon Dunstan February 9, 2015 at 1:21 pm -      #127

    On my phone, so don’t want to get into too much(as it’s a pain in the ass to quote), but…

    “By the same virtue, Amestris will copy Earth Empire flying machines more or less instantly. With their technological edge, Amestrian air power would actually be at an advantage, being able to mount machine guns for aerial combat.”

    One little detail… All those big blimps in Avatar-verse, even the early ones made by the FN, have metal hulls. :lol:

    I’m not sure FMA physics raping anilities extend to making fleets of lead balloons fly.

  28. Shgon Dunstan February 9, 2015 at 1:25 pm -      #128

    “Furthermore, you’re overestimating how good Earth Empire engineers are. The Avatar-verse has never used gunpowder before and doesn’t understand how they work.”

    Also some FN troops(called themselves… “Ruff riders” or something, road some of those those komodo-rhinos) used grenades.

  29. Belisaurius February 9, 2015 at 1:59 pm -      #129

    Amestris has carbon fiber.

  30. Cassie Hack February 9, 2015 at 2:16 pm -      #130

    Avatar also had remote detonated bombs, that Varrick designed and used for his movies, and to destroy a few buildings to help insight a war. Did the EE also have planes I know they exist in Avatar but I’m not sure if Kuvira actually used them herself.

    Bit extreme but what about overloaded spirit vine bombs, like the one that Varrick rigged up with Bolin on the train? drop those from above onto Amestris…

  31. Belisaurius February 9, 2015 at 2:59 pm -      #131

    Likewise, Amestris could send in the state alchemists to turn EE cities into philosopher’s stones.

    Isaac MacDougal nearly managed to freeze all of central with some setup so it’s probably not beyond the strength of a single Alchemist.

  32. Glutinous-Bicarbonate February 9, 2015 at 4:17 pm -      #132

    President Raiko wanted Varrick to adapt spirit rays for vehicles as small as the flying mechs. Varrick refused, not because he claimed it was impossible, but on moral grounds.

    Bataar Jr. had at least enough understanding of spirit ray technology to facilitate building the Colossus, so there’s possibilities of that technology being spread throughout a wide section of the Empire forces, not to speak of simply using the vines as powerful explosives.

  33. Jake_Uzumaki February 9, 2015 at 4:27 pm -      #133

    @Cassie
    Kai and Opal were attacked by bandits with an Earth Kingdom colored plane that was implied to be sent by Kuvira to keep them from getting the supplies, but other than that I don’t know if there’s anything definite on war planes.

  34. Cassie Hack February 9, 2015 at 4:30 pm -      #134

    That’s right I forgot all about that, still at least it shows that there is a possibility of her having access to them, aside from it not being that rare a technology in general.

  35. Friendlysociopath February 9, 2015 at 5:25 pm -      #135

    The thing about transmutation circles is that the large ones require you to corral a bunch of people into an area.

    You realize just about every single Alchemy circle we see in FMA allows you to manipulate things outside of said circle right?
    Ed, Alphonse, Mustang, Kimblee, Macdougalm Armstrong- any of those ring a bell? Alchemy can affect things outside of a circle.

    Also, philosopher stones and Milos stars given to the best alchemists let they use their skills at exponentially greater power and range.
    The Father spreads a Philosopher stone underneath the entirely of Amestris, so getting them isn’t exactly going to be hard.

    I’m having a sort of Oprah vision in my head,
    “You’re getting a stone! And you’re getting a stone! And you’re gonna be a homunculus! And you- oh sugar that arm is so ugly, go see Winry, she’ll fix you right up.”

  36. Jake_Uzumaki February 9, 2015 at 5:28 pm -      #136

    If nothing else there’s apparently planes IN the territory of the Earth Empire, considering they made a spirit vine powered Jaeger in a few weeks if I remember right they have decent production capacity to say the least if they turned that to other vehicles/weapons they should be able to pump out tech at a decent rate.

  37. Jake_Uzumaki February 9, 2015 at 5:35 pm -      #137

    also I forgot how nimble the mech suits actually are for something their size


    apparently border checkpoints are prone to having multiple mech suits at them

  38. Jake_Uzumaki February 9, 2015 at 5:44 pm -      #138

    just thought I’d go ahead and post it but Kuvira’s mech in action
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdhZWhxOGKA

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmWepWNwPZ0

    the cannon by itself’s firepower

  39. Belisaurius February 9, 2015 at 6:13 pm -      #139

    First off, the first video in post #137 is accelerated.

    Second, while the suits are fast for a human, they aren’t hitting the 40 Km/h speed of a briggs tank.

    Third,
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqPNgbu6ijA

    At 2:33 we see Olivier Armstrong with a Panzershriek.

    At 3:00 we see two tanks.

    At 3:20 we see a factory for assembling tanks, judging by the 4 hulls.

  40. Jake_Uzumaki February 9, 2015 at 6:24 pm -      #140

    I wasn’t talking about speed so much as the fact they can leap around and swing from trees with grappling hooks,

    Okay now can you show if that video contradicts the manga or if its just filler scenes?

  41. Belisaurius February 9, 2015 at 6:48 pm -      #141

    @jake

    It’s from the brotherhood series

    If you don’t recognize it then you haven’t watch FMA Brotherhood. Which is a shame because it’s a good show.

  42. Secrecy27 February 9, 2015 at 7:39 pm -      #142

    @Jake_Uzumaki
    Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood (Japanese: 鋼の錬金術師 FULLMETAL ALCHEMIST Hepburn: Hagane no Renkinjutsushi Furumetaru Arukemisuto?) is an anime adaptation of the Fullmetal Alchemist manga by Hiromu Arakawa. Developed by Bones, the series is directed by Yasuhiro Irie and written by Hiroshi Ōnogi. Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood is the second anime television series based on Fullmetal Alchemist, the first being 2003’s Fullmetal Alchemist, and unlike its predecessor it directly follows the events of the manga.” – Wikipedia – FMA Brotherhood

    Here are some scans from the manga:
    www.tenmanga.com/chapter/FullMetalAlchemist66/146383-16.html
    www.tenmanga.com/chapter/FullMetalAlchemist66/146383-20.html

  43. Cassie Hack February 9, 2015 at 7:44 pm -      #143

    Again is star of Milos canon to Brotherhood, because. I know that it definitely didn’t happen after the series or manga, and I doubt it took place mid series.

  44. Friendlysociopath February 9, 2015 at 7:49 pm -      #144

    @Bel
    Any anime adaption has “filler”, scenes and episodes added to give extra time and/or scenes. Brotherhood is no exception. That said, the entire point of Brotherhood was to accurately portray the Manga better than the 2003 anime did.

    is star of Milos canon to Brotherhood

    Yeah, it takes place somewhere after episode 15 but before episode 24. I can’t imagine any reason it wouldn’t be canon, it doesn’t go against anything in the anime or manga.

  45. Secrecy27 February 9, 2015 at 7:54 pm -      #145

    @Cassie Hack
    Because it was the only time in the series that the main characters traveled to another country, Murata had difficulties concluding it, wondering if it would have an impact on the canonical storyline. Therefore, the story was set during the time Edward realized Alphonse’s human body existed somewhere, with the logic that knowledge would encourage him to travel to another area to do research. (This likely places the events of the film somewhere around episode 21 of Brotherhood. Alphonse has learned to transmute with only his hands, but Mustang’s subordinates have not yet been split up, definitively placing it somewhere between episodes 15 and 24.)” – Development – Fullmetal Alchemist: The Sacred Star of Milos – Wikipedia

    Yes, it appears to be canon.

  46. Belisaurius February 9, 2015 at 8:09 pm -      #146

    @Sociopath

    Ah, well the Briggs arc is an integral part of the plot as it introduced Major General Olivier Armstrong and the Briggs troops.

    On another issue, I had forgotten about that rocket launcher. Panzershrecks change the dynamic of battle drastically as troops have a means of destroying powered armor and earth bended cover. Not the best option in the case of powered armor but it does mean that they can put up resistance.

  47. Warlock Lowk February 9, 2015 at 8:52 pm -      #147

    Yet another post eaten.
    ===
    Anyway,
    So they do have more then one tank but it seems they aren’t widely used or abundant as EE armored units.

    For the rocket. Unlike bullets they would fall under something moving just slow enough to react to, especially if fired from far away.
    ===
    Question would a powerful or sustain electric charge be enough set of ammunition or ecplosives?
    Also how electric proof are tanks?

  48. Belisaurius February 9, 2015 at 9:24 pm -      #148

    @Warlock
    That is a matter of debate. We saw very little open warfare in FMA. Mostly it was back alley skirmishes and small unit fighting. Considering that Panzershrecks exist it’s likely tanks are fairly common.

    A Panzershreck has a muzzle velocity of about 250 MPH. That’s a couple times faster than a major league pitch. Also, most anti-tank rockets have a failsafe timer. If they don’t hit something by the time they reach their maximum range then they detonate automatically. Not sure if this happens with the Panzerschreck but it happens with the RPG-7 and the AT4.

    Tanks as a rule are very resistant to electric charges. The hulls are large chunks of metal and as such tend to ground out electric charges. This is even more apparent with off road metal treads as an electric charge would go straight to the ground. Spalling liners tend to complete a faraday box.
    The flamethrower is probably a better choice. The fire could blind the crew, choke the engine, or cause the ammo to cook off. Assuming the powered armor is within range and has time to work on it.

    There is a small chance that full powered rifle round might be able to punch through powered armor. Especially if it’s a steel jacketed armor piercing round. EE powered armor uses platinum in it’s construction but platinum is far weaker than steel. The armor also might be thinner than tank armor as the EE armor was intended to face benders, not guns.

  49. Hac148 February 10, 2015 at 9:59 am -      #149

    @bellisauras
    “Considering that Panzershrecks exist it’s likely tanks are fairly common.”

    you have NO grounds to say that, as despite the ones under construction we still only see a single one in used, the same that was complete in the video, during the revolution. They have 1 operating tank. and despite months between this and the revolution, still only have one, which means months of work wont even finish half done tanks, much less build entirely new ones. You cant just say they have tons because you see more than one under progress. We see one used, so one active one is what we’ve got.

    “There is a small chance that full powered rifle round might be able to punch through powered armor.”

    Those are WWI era rifles, they arent piercing through shit on those mechs. We have seen those mechs take some damn punishment, bullets dont get to flay them just because you want them to.

    As for electircity resitance, that i will grant you in modern tanks, but these arent modern tanks, they are Amestris’ very first tanks in a country that doesnt actively use electricity based weaponry, i doubt they factored that in in the damn prototype, because as Armstrong finds out, they havent even finished testing the damned thing.

    The power suits dont have to be as fast, but they are very mobile. Tanks shoot from a fair range as a rule. They dont try to shoot point blank. At a tanks’ needed firing range, we have seen benders react defensively to attacks like that. Earth benders especially. The mechs move in, use those cables to spiderman around the clumsy tank, and with the saws we saw them use on the spirit trees, cut the SINGLE ACTIVE TANK they have to shreds like Bradley.

  50. Hac148 February 10, 2015 at 10:02 am -      #150

    Which by the way, ultimate eye or no, a simple steel military saber finished off a tank team. Yes he had the ultimate eye, and im not talking about the men, but that tank treading came apart like tissue paper, im betting the metal razor sheets the metal benders use could work just as well.

  51. Friendlysociopath February 10, 2015 at 10:14 am -      #151

    Does it not occur to you that the rebels- by their nature- do not have access to the entire military?

    We see one used, so one active one is what we’ve got.

    We see multiple others being created, in relative peacetime. Come a war they’d ramp up production- add in alchemists and they’ll be created in no time. Your only counter to this point was “nuh-uh”.

    As for electircity resitance, that i will grant you in modern tanks, but these arent modern tanks, they are Amestris’ very first tanks in a country that doesnt actively use electricity based weaponry,

    It’s a perk of all tanks dude, they’re giant metal boxes that are extremely grounded due to being big and on the ground.

    SINGLE ACTIVE TANK

    At least two actually, with plenty more available in a short time.

    Again, giant Philosopher stone under the entire city-state. Literally everyone and their mother would have a philosopher stone.

    simple steel military saber finished off a tank team

    That same saber effortlessly carved through concrete- it’s not regular steel.

  52. Hac148 February 10, 2015 at 10:22 am -      #152

    “Your only counter to this point was “nuh-uh”.”

    The entirety of your argument is hanging on them doing things they are never shown to do, and trying to make a clearly WWI era society have modern weapons. The burden of proof is on you to show they can do any of this. We never see more than one active tank, and we never see alchemists helping them out, Amestrian alchemists dont seem to work with machinery, or else engineers and automail mechanics would also be state certified alchemists. All your doing is saying they could do things that we have no evidence of them doing.

    “Again, giant Philosopher stone under the entire city-state. Literally everyone and their mother would have a philosopher stone.”

    That would help if that was where this fight was taking place. Unless to OP specifies a place, the fight takes place on neutral ground, which means they will have to make a new circle themselves. Not to mention even if they did use that circle their wiping out their own population. One side destroying itself and its enemy isnt a win for that side.

  53. Friendlysociopath February 10, 2015 at 10:54 am -      #153

    One side destroying itself and its enemy isnt a win for that side.

    So long as one member of that side lives then yeah, still a win.

    The burden of proof is on you to show they can do any of this.

    I’m sorry, what part of Alchemists making parts and having them put together in a few seconds to minutes at best was unclear to you?
    They have the facilities and they have the manpower- this is literally all they need. You need to prove why they can’t do this, we’ve proved they can.

    That would help if that was where this fight was taking place.

    They have access to their resources, that’s a resource.

  54. Hac148 February 10, 2015 at 11:21 am -      #154

    “They have the facilities and they have the manpower- this is literally all they need.”
    Then why hasnt it been done? They were on a clearly hostile border, and yet i didnt see any alchemists up there helping pop tanks into existence. Even if they did get into mass production, its a simple matter for mech suits to cut them to shreds, and Kuvira has plenty of them.

    “They have access to their resources, that’s a resource.”

    Yes, but without kuvira’s soldiers in their country, they are making philosophers stones out of their own citizens, which means that every stone for each single alchemist is another ishvalan massacre, every homonculous is a city gone that at best can no longer produce resources, material, and food, and at worst, starts another uprising and civil war for the Amestrian government to deal with. They can make more, sure, but it isnt PIS or CIS for the people of the country to have a HUGE problem with that. If you think Amestris can handle the EE on top of a civil war that, at the levels of philosophers stone they will need, will be if anything bigger than the one that happens in canon, then by all means go right ahead.

  55. Belisaurius February 10, 2015 at 11:57 am -      #155

    “Then why hasnt it been done? They were on a clearly hostile border, and yet i didnt see any alchemists up there helping pop tanks into existence. Even if they did get into mass production, its a simple matter for mech suits to cut them to shreds, and Kuvira has plenty of them.”

    Firstly, while Amestris had hostile relations with Drackma, they aren’t at war. It’s likely that the Amestrian government is stocking up war funds for just a war.

    Second, a panzer 4 has a top speed of 40 kph and a 75mm cannon that outranged anything EE power armor has. It can stay out of range in open combat and in tight quarters the advantage of numbers is less of a factor.

    “making philosophers stones out of their own citizens”

    Sages stones, which only require a fraction of the numbers of a full philosophers stone, are typically made of condemned criminals. Otherwise, the amestrians could bait EE soldiers into transmutation circles with artillery and make stones from their enemies.

  56. Friendlysociopath February 10, 2015 at 11:57 am -      #156

    Then why hasnt it been done?

    Because The Father wants all Alchemists studying so he can have his sacrificial victims. Forcing them to endlessly crank out machinery is not in any way what he wants during the series.

    Yes, but without kuvira’s soldiers in their country, they are making philosophers stones out of their own citizens

    It seems you’re not getting this- there is a philosopher stone the size of Amestris already under the ground during the series. They don’t need to sacrifice people to get them for that particular instance.
    OR they can just have everyone donating blood to get the Stars, giving a few pints of blood to save 50 million lives would seem a small price to pay.
    OR they can create lesser stones from relatively few people.

  57. Belisaurius February 10, 2015 at 1:00 pm -      #157

    “you have NO grounds to say that, as despite the ones under construction we still only see a single one in used, the same that was complete in the video, during the revolution. They have 1 operating tank. and despite months between this and the revolution, still only have one, which means months of work wont even finish half done tanks, much less build entirely new ones. You cant just say they have tons because you see more than one under progress. We see one used, so one active one is what we’ve got.”

    A Panzershreck is a weapon designed to take down tanks. If tanks are rare, then there is no reason for there to be a Panzershreck

    There was only one tank ready for the revolution because they had to smuggle the damn thing in piece by piece and assemble it under the Armstrong Manor.

    At the Briggs Fortress we saw three operational tanks in one shot, as they pushed Sloth into the elevator.

    “Those are WWI era rifles, they arent piercing through shit on those mechs. We have seen those mechs take some damn punishment, bullets dont get to flay them just because you want them to.”

    Actually, those are semi-automatic rifles. Second world war tech.

    Additionally, during the first world war machine gun crews used armor piercing rounds against tanks with some success. In particular, the rivets tended to buckle under fire. So I’m not pulling this from thin air, this happened IRL.

    “That would help if that was where this fight was taking place. Unless to OP specifies a place, the fight takes place on neutral ground, which means they will have to make a new circle themselves. Not to mention even if they did use that circle their wiping out their own population. One side destroying itself and its enemy isnt a win for that side.”

    By the same measure, Kuvira should not be able to disrupt Amestrian industry.

  58. Shgon Dunstan February 12, 2015 at 9:05 am -      #158

    One area were the EE is likely unchallenged by Amestris, is it even “having” a navy… You know, Amestris being landlocked and all.

    Hell, Avatar-verse even has subs… Don’t think we’ve ever seen an Earth Kingdom version of them(comics maybe?), but the existence of subs is over 70 years old by the time of the EE.

  59. Belisaurius February 12, 2015 at 12:33 pm -      #159

    @Shgon

    On the other hand, EE has never had a navy either. Both countries would be starting from scratch.

  60. Jwlynas February 14, 2015 at 8:27 am -      #160

    I love this site. We have a battle between alchemists and benders, and people are arguing over tank production.

    Both sides have the means to completely shut down factories in seconds, and completely down tanks, mechs, even whole units of infantry in seconds. The whole war from before the events of Fullmetal shows exactly that in fact. Roy Mustang, Kimblee and Armstrong utterly ripping apart the opposition in heartbeats.

    I don’t doubt the EE have more people under their power, and better tech. What they don’t have is experience in that level of total annihilation of your foes.

    The Haemonculi exist here, gluttony and his ray of utter bfr, greed and his ultimate shield, Envy would be hilariously good at infiltrating and murdering the leadership.

    If this were a match of just tech/numbers, the EE would stomp. Sadly, they’re lacking experience and brutality.

    Numbers have a quality all of their own of course.

  61. Belisaurius February 16, 2015 at 11:53 am -      #161

    I really didn’t have a good chance to compare benders and alchemists properly before so I’ll guess I’ll do it now.

    While earth benders definitely win the quick draw and can do a few things alchemists can’t, tossing rocks for example, they are still limited by earth and metal. Alchemists have a very deep bag of tricks. In sacred star of milos there were wolf chimeras that could scale shear cliffsides with ease and could gut a man in an instant. Kimbly could turn people into bombs. Clara could synthesis medicine and we don’t need to review what Roy Mustang could do.

    An alchemist could freeze a river as soldiers try to cross it or remove the water from trees to make charcoal before setting them ablaze. An Amestrian army could go months without resupply by synthesizing supplies out of their environment. Busted tanks could be repaired in minutes and field artillery cannons could be created out of nowhere. Soul-bound armor could be electro-plated with platinum and sent in as shock troopers. Human chimeras could be sent in to harass Imperial forces day and night.

    More importantly is the psychological impact of Alchemy and Bending. While Amestrians can rationalize Bending as a weird and foreign form of alchemy (earth bending anyway, air and fire bending are a little beyond what most alchemists can understand) Earth Empire soldiers have no frame of reference for much of what alchemists can do. Bombs out of nowhere? Human chimeras? Soul-binding? This goes so far beyond what Bending can do that the rank and file will think it’s witchcraft (which it kinda is) and commanders wouldn’t know how to plan around it. Units would rout, terrified of forces beyond their comprehension. Commanders would be stymied by paranoia, fearful of what alchemy could do.

    Finally, there is the minor point of Automail. While death is a possibility in battle, in the last few centuries it’s become more common to be merely maimed. With automail this becomes a temporary inconvenience rather than a crippling blow. Soldiers that loose limbs could return to service not only fully capable but possibly stronger than before. This has not only an upswing for the experience of Amestrian soldiers but also the morale. Wounded soldiers don’t suffer from despair of being crippled for life but rather frustration at being sidelined for the better part of a year. This, along with the militant stance of the Amestrian government and the recent experiences putting down two major rebellions within one generation (Ishval and Liore) means that Amestrians have impeccable discipline. While not given to suicidal courage it’s likely that Amestrian soldiers would die to the last man before routing.

    The Earth Empire, on the other hand, hasn’t ever faced another nation in battle.

  62. Warlock Lowk February 16, 2015 at 1:52 pm -      #162

    “Earth Empire soldiers have no frame of reference for much of what alchemists can do. Bombs out of nowhere? Human chimeras? Soul-binding? This goes so far beyond what Bending can do that the rank and file will think it’s witchcraft”

    They had a gigantic glowing girl fight the gigantic embodiment of evil. Both who shoot laser beams of spiritual energy, the same energy they now use to fire a daeth laser. Due to that incident they now live in a world were seeing supernatural entities is commonplace. These same spirit who have been known to go all evilmonster at the drop of a hat. They themselves have fought against a giant living tree.
    Witchcraft is probably the least of their worries considering what they currently already live with. Especially if/when their scientist realize it’s basically a science.
    ===
    “Soldiers that loose limbs could return to service not only fully capable but possibly stronger than before.”

    Having pieces of metal attached to you while going up against mini magnetos who use electric based weaponry… That seems like a bad thing.

  63. Belisaurius February 16, 2015 at 2:49 pm -      #163

    “they had a gigantic glowing girl fight the gigantic embodiment of evil. Both who shoot laser beams of spiritual energy, the same energy they now use to fire a daeth laser”

    A once in a life-time event that only people in Republic city actually saw. As for the Death Beam? Only about a dozen or so people actually know how it works.

    “These same spirit who have been known to go all evilmonster at the drop of a hat. They themselves have fought against a giant living tree.”

    Spirits, by their own admission, are forbidden from interfering in the affairs of man. This actually came up when Kora tried asking them for help, once. As for the tree? Plant bending is a subset of water bending.

    “Having pieces of metal attached to you while going up against mini magnetos who use electric based weaponry… That seems like a bad thing.”

    Automail is often composed of carbon fiber.

  64. Warlock Lowk February 16, 2015 at 4:29 pm -      #164

    “A once in a life-time event that only people in Republic city actually saw.”

    This does not change that something significant of supernatural nature happened that people talked about and changed the world.
    ===
    “As for the Death Beam? Only about a dozen or so people actually know how it works.”

    Yet everyone has seen it in action.
    Kind of takes away from the ‘omg witchcraft magic’ angle when there super weapon would be basically be considered a giant magical ray.
    ===
    “Spirits, by their own admission, are forbidden from interfering in the affairs of man.”

    So, they are still all around now. Alchemy magic is about as crazy as there world being populated that which they once called supernatural, and now they just live with it. Some don’t like it but they live with it.
    Your saying it’s going to have some profound impact but they are already dealing in the supernatural. And alchemy? Slightly less mystical then what they’ve already dealt with.

    The effect caused by them, like any war will probably have a effect but that’s war. To my understanding people die in horrible ways in war. Whether it be by people being hosed down in the fires of a mech’s flame thrower, or some dude causing spontaneous combustion…. actually wait no they already have that. Whether its a guy turning someone into bombs or people being exploded by grenades.
    ===
    “Bombs out of nowhere?”

    Combustion benders.
    ===
    “Human chimeras?”

    Normal for them are elephant sized badger mole hybrids that earthbend. And now they have spirits whose visual manifestation can come in a anthropomorphic.
    vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/avatar/images/e/ee/Possessed_hunter.png/revision/latest?cb=20131020193121
    vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/avatar/images/7/76/Aye-aye_spirit.png/revision/latest?cb=20131019224533
    Honestly I think they’d be more shocked seeing Black Hayate. Non-hybrid creature are apparently more rare in avatar then supernatural entities.
    ===
    “Soul-Binding”

    That I’ll give you. They don’t have that. To them it’ll probably seem like a spirit possessing an armor.
    ===
    “As for the tree? Plant bending is a subset of water bending.”

    Which works for things like seaweed and draining water out of plants. Not moving giant trunks of a equally giant sentient tree.
    ===
    “Automail is often composed of carbon fiber.”

    More like some Automail is composed of it. Beside that was there ever a mention of automail that was entirely carbon fiber? Because I though even Ed was just plated in it.

  65. Belisaurius February 16, 2015 at 5:53 pm -      #165

    @Lowk

    And as much as there is supernatural things in the Avatar-verse, it’s usually Someone Elses Problem. The Earth Empire has never had to deal with apocalyptic spirits, doomsday cannons, forceful possession, or indeed anything beyond some funny looking critters. It’s like hearing about a shooting in Iraq verses actually being shot at in Iraq. Drastically different psychological impact.

    “Combustion benders.”

    Combustion benders always needed line of sight and you could see a distortion in the air from the heat. It’s a far cry from Kimblee’s method of having a sick man show up at your door step and explode a few minutes latter and take out the entire triage center.

    “Normal for them are elephant sized badger mole hybrids that earthbend. And now they have spirits whose visual manifestation can come in a anthropomorphic.”

    Most spirits don’t attack your camp in the middle of the night. For that matter, there hasn’t been a spirit distorted human since before the worlds were separated.

    “More like some Automail is composed of it. Beside that was there ever a mention of automail that was entirely carbon fiber? Because I though even Ed was just plated in it.”

    Considering that Kuvira’s mech could not be metal bent from the outside but could be metal bent from the inside, a coating of unbendable material seems to be enough.

  66. Friendlysociopath February 16, 2015 at 6:25 pm -      #166

    Uh, I’m really doubting there’s going to be psychological damage done to the enemy just for facing something unexpected. I feel like they’d expect the unexpected.

    Not understanding it and reacting poorly I can see happening, but isn’t the entire point of this scenario to pit the sides against one another in a no-holds-barred battle to the finish?

    Alchemy itself isn’t even that different, it’s just bending through ritual instead of movement. Now, Homunculus and soul-armors on the other hand- that would likely be unnerving. I’m also not sure how well they’d handle people like Ed essentially creating building-size cannons with a clap of the hands.

  67. Warlock Lowk February 16, 2015 at 6:43 pm -      #167

    “The Earth Empire has never had to deal with apocalyptic spirits, doomsday cannons, forceful possession, or indeed anything beyond some funny looking critters. It’s like hearing about a shooting in Iraq verses actually being shot at in Iraq. Drastically different psychological impact.”

    Spirits are everywhere now. The sight of a non-human being with human level intelligence is no longer new to them. They may not had to deal with them when they went crazy but they are still around even in the earth kingdom.
    The doomsday cannon was theres, so the idea of crazy magic shit beyond what they were capable of also not new to them.
    If I lived next to a circus of freaks you can’t really expect me to be as surprised when I see a different type of one as if I had never seen one at all.
    ===
    “Combustion benders always needed line of sight and you could see a distortion in the air from the heat.”

    One they can curve the path. So not exactly two source on that second bit?
    ===
    “It’s a far cry from Kimblee’s method of having a sick man show up at your door step and explode a few minutes latter and take out the entire triage center.”

    Again the problem isn’t it the power it’s in the fact some dude got blown up. The same could be accomplished via suicide bomber via sticking explosives to a guy under his shirt.
    Neither side really has explosive detecting equipment last I checked.
    ===
    “Most spirits don’t attack your camp in the middle of the night.”

    Again getting attacked in the night regardless of what’s attacking you is going to have an effect. I’m sure most of Amestris would expect elephant sized rodents coming at them from underground either.
    All I’m saying is that EE at least has a basis for caring more about the actual threat rather then the weird or supernatural angle of the attack.
    Our weird is their normal. They have more benders then alchemist. People doing crazy stuff like manipulating mineral or metal with mind and gesture are regular jobs in their world. Animal that can manipulate earth, air, or breath fire are about the same as wild tigers for us. Creatures that are strange amalgamations are as common as dogs.

    As for the supernatural, they along with everyone else in avatarverse has had it shoved down their throats by the actions of the current avatar. It doesn’t matter if they’ve been attacked by them, the spirit tree did btw; they still exist all around now. It kind of lessens the blow of supernatural stuff when you live in a world where an extinct race is reborn. Oh, and the strange little glowing thing you once that were fairy tales now hang out by the spring in the town square. Plus you can visit a place full of them in a fucking tour.
    ===
    “For that matter, there hasn’t been a spirit distorted human since before the worlds were separated.”

    Only one of the pictures was a guy being distored. The was just how that spirit normally appeared. Anthropomorphic features aren’t exactly rare among them.
    ===
    “Considering that Kuvira’s mech could not be metal bent from the outside but could be metal bent from the inside, a coating of unbendable material seems to be enough.”

    Considering how large and how much space in it, doesn’t really seem comparable to prosthetic. They have less armor and space between the outsides and insides.

  68. Warlock Lowk February 16, 2015 at 7:23 pm -      #168

    I used again twice. I don’t know why but that irks me.
    ===
    Just so we all understand the contrast between what each considers strange.
    This
    vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/fma/images/3/36/Chimera.png/revision/latest?cb=20131114160249
    Is a specially made creature. It’s equivalent to frakenstien.

    Meanwhile in avatar
    This platypus bear
    mimg.ugo.com/201108/7/1/8/206817/cuts/1-platypus-bear_528_poster.jpg
    Is more common then a regular bear.
    ===
    Also look up canyon crawler for a special kind of wrong. If the creators of the series are the avatar world’s gods then they are horrible deities. Why would anyone mix a spider and a croc together?

  69. Jake_Uzumaki February 16, 2015 at 7:31 pm -      #169

    Canyon Crawler
    vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/avatar/images/9/90/Canyon_crawler.png/revision/latest?cb=20131202202355

    And for the Earth Kingdom there’s also these lovely things
    Sand Sharks vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/avatar/images/8/87/Sand_shark.png/revision/latest?cb=20150206070926
    they have giant sand swimming sharks.

  70. Warlock Lowk February 16, 2015 at 7:48 pm -      #170

    “they have giant sand swimming sharks.”

    Well, I regret clicking that link immediately.

  71. Jake_Uzumaki February 16, 2015 at 8:02 pm -      #171

    And because that doesn’t give a show of scale….
    i.imgur.com/Ejitu7K.png
    attacking a Airship

  72. Friendlysociopath February 16, 2015 at 9:11 pm -      #172

    This
    It’s equivalent to frakenstien.


    No it’s not? Maybe to normal citizens but the military has demonstrated regular exposure to them. Chimera research is a standard thing in the FMA universe. It’s Human Chimera that are considered “bad” and that’s just because it’s human transmutation.

  73. Warlock Lowk February 17, 2015 at 3:54 am -      #173

    “Maybe to normal citizens.”

    Frakenstien, a cobbled together creature that frightened the normal citizens. Its like you almost knew exactly how I was thinking. Get out of my head!

  74. Belisaurius February 17, 2015 at 10:01 am -      #174

    “Spirits are everywhere now. The sight of a non-human being with human level intelligence is no longer new to them. They may not had to deal with them when they went crazy but they are still around even in the earth kingdom.”

    It’s not the fact that they are non-human but the fact that they were human that’s the real horror. Human Chimeras still possess the intelligence of a human. They can still talk like a human. Sometimes they can pass as a human. However, anyone that sees them in their true form will know they aren’t human any more.

    “Again the problem isn’t it the power it’s in the fact some dude got blown up. The same could be accomplished via suicide bomber via sticking explosives to a guy under his shirt.
    Neither side really has explosive detecting equipment last I checked.”

    Well, yeah, except that guy was one of yours and never knew he was a living bomb.

    “considering how large and how much space in it, doesn’t really seem comparable to prosthetic. They have less armor and space between the outsides and insides.”

    Possibly, but it’s a flat out guess with no evidence to support it.

  75. Warlock Lowk February 17, 2015 at 10:18 am -      #175

    “Yes, but there isn’t any evidence to suggest there is a minimum necessary thickness. All we do know for sure is that if the outside is unbendible, the insides are protected.”

    No evidence on thickness but remember there is a limit to thier reach.
    The armor thickness adds to the space already in between.

    Edit: and iirc bumi has shown thats not exactly true from when he was locked inside something he could not bend.

  76. Warlock Lowk February 17, 2015 at 10:28 am -      #176

    Also that would kind of be disregarding the technique itself is basically bending something you can’t see that is inside something else.

  77. Friendlysociopath February 17, 2015 at 10:37 am -      #177

    The armor thickness adds to the space already in between.

    I don’t know much about Avatar verse but- unless the outer “shell” is several feet thick, it’s really not adding that much further of a distance to bend.

  78. Jake_Uzumaki February 17, 2015 at 11:00 am -      #178

    The Platinum plating was thick enough that it took an extended period of time with two plasma torches to cut through..it looked to be close to one foot thick or so

  79. Belisaurius February 17, 2015 at 11:14 am -      #179

    “Edit: and iirc bumi has shown thats not exactly true from when he was locked inside something he could not bend.”

    Bumi’s face was sticking out and he used only his face to earth bend.

  80. IamTaco February 18, 2015 at 3:59 am -      #180

    I’m going to go with the faction that can build twenty stories tall city busting mechs in less then 2 weeks in total secret.

    The EE has just about every advantage that matters in a real war. The main weakness they have, namely the lack of guns, is going to be copied so fast that Amestris will probably think that the EE time traveled into the past to copy them.

  81. Friendlysociopath February 18, 2015 at 6:52 am -      #181

    Did anyone mention the army of Homunuclus sleeping underneath Amestris yet?

  82. IamTaco February 18, 2015 at 7:53 am -      #182

    ‘Did anyone mention the army of Homunuclus sleeping underneath Amestris yet?’

    The army that is like a pack of feral dogs that can’t follow orders and attacks anyone that they meet?

    That and their regen isn’t going to be the most effective vs EE soliders who come packing a flamethrower and can use earthbending to just bury them alive and avoid their in built regen.
    -

  83. Shgon Dunstan February 18, 2015 at 8:00 am -      #183

    Speaking of Homunuclus… Do philosopher stones count as actual stones?

  84. Friendlysociopath February 18, 2015 at 8:13 am -      #184

    Do philosopher stones count as actual stones

    Wouldn’t think so, it’s never actually said what they’re made of. They also come in a liquid variety.

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