Amestris Vs Earth Empire

Amestris Vs Earth Empire

Suggested by JD

Amestris (Fullmetal Alchemist), makes first appearence here going up against Earth Empire (also first appearence here) from Legend of Korra.

Round 1: Without Kuvira’s mech

Round 2: With Kuvira’s mech

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184 Comments on "Amestris Vs Earth Empire"

  1. Warlock Lowk February 6, 2015 at 8:25 am -      #1

    Initial bets side with the group thats got an army of fire spewing, electric shooting, nimble as hell battle mechs. Who are backed by metal and rock manipulating soldiers.

  2. Shgon Dunstan February 6, 2015 at 8:29 am -      #2

    I could be wrong, but… I don’t remember FMA having air power.

  3. Ragnorke February 6, 2015 at 8:42 am -      #3

    Is this composite?

    Caus FMA has some city-wide Instakill stuff.

  4. Ragnorke February 6, 2015 at 8:45 am -      #4



    So, this guy casually tanks a few thousand rifle bullets & missiles without a scratch.

  5. Jake_Uzumaki February 6, 2015 at 8:57 am -      #5

    Only round 1 is a fight…but fem Hitler…err…Kuvira has tanks mech suits mech tanks and air superiority
    vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/avatar/images/c/c3/Kuvira%27s_army_tanks.png/revision/latest?cb=20141031121327

    Aand round 2 is basically Kuvira ethnically cleansing her new colony with a 25-30 story robot with a death ray.

  6. Ragnorke February 6, 2015 at 9:00 am -      #6

    “Aand round 2 is basically Kuvira ethnically cleansing her new colony with a 25-30 story robot with a death ray.”

    Why can’t the robot just be insta-transumted into like a pile of ash?
    Any one of the top tier alchemists just need to touch it.

  7. Rookie February 6, 2015 at 9:09 am -      #7

    @Ragnorke

    “So, this guy casually tanks a few thousand rifle bullets & missiles without a scratch.”

    He also created mini-sun:

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107619/2267019-2rhurz4.jpg

  8. Jake_Uzumaki February 6, 2015 at 9:17 am -      #8

    Because Kuvira isn’t going to announce what her robot is made out of and as was established in Ed and Roy vs Wolverine you have to know what the hell your transmuting to do anything to it.
    And even then the composition of the metals in the mech are clearly radically different from how we understand them since the mech’s armor is platinum and it no sold a skyscraper being dropped on it…which Platinum can’t do.

  9. Ragnorke February 6, 2015 at 9:21 am -      #9

    “Because Kuvira isn’t going to announce what her robot is made out of ”

    Unless it’s a freakishly rare/unknown compound like Adamantium, i see no reason for why they can’t just find out.
    i mean… They have an entire country worth of scientists to figure out the material of a single robot.

    “And even then the composition of the metals in the mech are clearly radically different from how we understand them since the mech’s armor is platinum and it no sold a skyscraper being dropped on it…which Platinum can’t do.”

    To be fair that’s just stupidity on the writers part.
    Platinum is Platinum.
    The composition is the same unless specifically mentioned otherwise.

    Also… I don’t see why Platinum can’t survive that…
    It would really come down to the architecture of the robot rather than the material. (Unless the material was something hyper fragile like glass)

  10. Ragnorke February 6, 2015 at 9:33 am -      #10

    So how fast are Benders?
    Can they compete with these guys:

    Scar:
    www.gfycat.com/EvilFinishedBee

    Bradley:
    www.gfycat.com/ThirdMelodicKangaroo

    Other top tier characters aren’t far off.

  11. Rookie February 6, 2015 at 9:42 am -      #11

    @Ragnorke

    “Scar”

    Yes, Korra got nice speed upgrade. But only absolute top tiers can hope to match him in speed though.

    “Bradley”

    AFAIK no, they not this fast yet.

  12. Jake_Uzumaki February 6, 2015 at 9:53 am -      #12

    It’s made of multiple various metals, we don’t know what all of them are only that Avatar Platinum is the outer layer and thick enough to require extended welding to pierce, plus the whole thing is powered by spirit vines.

    That said they won’t get close enough to use Alchemy, Kuvira will start laying waste to the city at a distance. She didn’t just destroy Republic City because she was reclaiming stolen Earth Kingdom land in her eyes. The second Amestris forces or cities are in sight she’ll blast them off the face of the earth.

  13. Friendlysociopath February 6, 2015 at 10:02 am -      #13

    Does FMA have any Philosopher Stones anymore? Or the fake ones?

  14. Rookie February 6, 2015 at 10:07 am -      #14

    @Friendlysociopath

    “Does FMA have any Philosopher Stones anymore? Or the fake ones?”

    We use EE at the height of it’s power as I understand it, so why don’t we use Amertis too at the height of it’s power?

  15. Friendlysociopath February 6, 2015 at 10:19 am -      #15

    It was a genuine question- I never finished watching Brotherhood so I don’t know haha. I know they have a number of fakes and I think 1 genuine one, not sure if that”s at the same time or not.

    Anyways, I’ll just drop some Mustang feats.

    Example of firepower
    gfycat.com/GrizzledReliableArctichare

    Moar firepower
    gfycat.com/TautFragrantBubblefish

    Big area
    gfycat.com/KindlyConfusedBluetickcoonhound

    and the philosopher stone (and/or lookalikes) let him do even more. I’m fairly certain there’s a scene in Brotherhood where he lights an entire city on fire but don’t quote me on that until I find it. His flames also reduce a body to unrecognizable charcoal, which would make them pretty hot to do that in such a short time.

  16. Warlock Lowk February 6, 2015 at 11:16 am -      #16

    “Why can’t the robot just be insta-transumted into like a pile of ash?
    Any one of the top tier alchemists just need to touch it.”

    Well for one, it’s range is pretty big. Then there is the army that tends to surround it.
    And by top tier alchemists who do you mean? Only person I can think of who can transmute on that scale is Father.
    ===
    @JD if your listening, any thoughts on Round 1 also being without Father so both side’s superpowers are down?
    ===
    If forgot, those mecha tanks are pretty nimble
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1KJfPUJwP8
    Besides bending, if it’s one thing that Avatarverse is good at; it’s making crazy jumps in technology. Then mass producing the hell out of it.

  17. Rookie February 6, 2015 at 12:00 pm -      #17

    How many troops does Earth Empire have?

  18. Cassie Hack February 6, 2015 at 12:42 pm -      #18

    They don’t have solid numbers really, but her army grew from years of her conscripting soldiers as she went about reuniting the Earth Kingdom. That pic probably isn’t too clear but her army was fucking massive. She had enough troops to not only have that standing force, but ones who also ran the concentration camps, the various outposts through the earth kingdom. essentially she had enough men to pose a significant military threat to the world, and support her infrastructure.

  19. Ragnorke February 6, 2015 at 1:42 pm -      #19

    fma.wikia.com/wiki/Amestris

    Amestris has a population of 50 million.
    And since King Bradleys reign, the nations primary focus has been its Military.

    So what’re some estimates on the Earth Empire?
    And you may want to post some feats for their “Average” Soldier.
    Considering an Average Amestris troop would have a gun.

    Does the Earth Empire have any ranged projectiles on par with rifles?

  20. Ragnorke February 6, 2015 at 1:53 pm -      #20

    Also, wasn’t a giant Transmutation circle used to instantly kill every living person in Xerxes?

    Hooinheim of Light knows the circle, and can replicate it.
    Heck Father created the same circle over all of Amestris, which i’m going to assume is larger than the Earth Empire, although i could be wrong.

  21. Friendlysociopath February 6, 2015 at 2:11 pm -      #21

    Don’t forget the old Homunculus and Chimera troops, or sealing souls of destroyed bodies into suits of armor. FMA actually has a lot of ways to boost people into killing machines.

    fma.wikia.com/wiki/Chimera
    fma.wikia.com/wiki/Homunculus

  22. Hac148 February 6, 2015 at 3:50 pm -      #22

    Earth Empire is supposed to be an approximation of an industrialized, rising china, and covers the entirety of the Earth Kingdom, which is about the size of Russia or all of asia. In terms of raw numbers she brings to minor conquerings, adding on the forces that she states are elsewhere “keeping the peace”, she likely has an army approaching, in size, that of modern day china, nearly 3 million active personel, 1 million reserve, and over 300 million fit for service, and that is a lot of benders.

  23. Hac148 February 6, 2015 at 3:56 pm -      #23

    And lets look at this, almost the entirety of Kuvira’s army are benders, those that arent are in extreemly versatile and extreemly durably mech suits. Amestris’ foot soldiers have basic uniforms and rifles equivalent to the late 20’s early 30’s post WWI but pre WWII era german nation. While Amestris has scores more heavy hitters, in terms of soldier to soldier, The Earth Empire has them outmanned and outgunned.

  24. Ragnorke February 7, 2015 at 2:59 am -      #24

    “she likely has an army approaching, in size, that of modern day china, nearly 3 million active personel, 1 million reserve, and over 300 million fit for service, and that is a lot of benders.”

    Wait wait wait… You’re using the numbers of Modern Day Real Life China? As a source for the Earth Empires army?
    No.

    Do you have any real evidence on their numbers?

    avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Earth_Kingdom
    avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Military_of_the_Earth_Empire
    Skimming through these 2 pages, i haven’t seen anything on their size or population.

    ” almost the entirety of Kuvira’s army are benders,”

    Not according to the wiki.
    It says the “foot soldiers” consists of both Benders & non-Benders.

    ” those that arent are in extreemly versatile and extreemly durably mech suits.”

    How durable?

    ” Amestris’ foot soldiers have basic uniforms and rifles equivalent to the late 20’s early 30’s post WWI but pre WWII era german nation.”

    Rifles > Benders any day.
    How fast can benders send their projectiles again?
    And how fast do those projectiles move?

  25. Shgon Dunstan February 7, 2015 at 3:40 am -      #25

    ” and covers the entirety of the Earth Kingdom, which is about the size of Russia or all of asia.”

    Uh… The EK is a LOT bigger then that. It takes up most of the map. A map that shows both the north and south polls of an earth sized world. Asia doesn’t even come close.

  26. Ragnorke February 7, 2015 at 3:44 am -      #26

    ” A map that shows both the north and south polls of an earth sized world.”

    …And where’s your source for it being an Earth Sized world again?

  27. Warlock Lowk February 7, 2015 at 3:47 am -      #27

    “Rifles > Benders any day.”

    Maybe in a one vs one fight against a quick accurate shooter but keep in mind earthbenders can create their own cover and move it.
    I’m not saying their wouldn’t be any casualties but there defensive capabilities added to multiple targets should help limit the amount of casualties against rifles. Especially considering her army consist of people who don’t even need to be that close to magneto the rifles out of their hands and turn it against them.
    ===
    “How fast can benders send their projectiles again?”

    Depends on what they are moving. Small stuff like stones or metal blades are basically as a punch away.
    ===
    “And how fast do those projectiles move?”

    Again, varies depending on how big the object is but I don’t anyone other then the avatar has gotten projectile above arrow speeds.
    ===
    “It says the “foot soldiers” consists of both Benders & non-Benders.”

    Most of the non-bending foot soldier I’ve noticed tend to be in a battlesuit.
    ===
    “How durable?”

    They can tank punches that can send heavy metal battle suit flying and being pummeled by various elements. They are heat resistant but has Bolin has shown prolong exposure to lava beats’em.
    ===
    Has there ever been any mention of Amestris anti aircraft weaponry because dropping bombs is a thing in Avatar.

  28. Warlock Lowk February 7, 2015 at 3:55 am -      #28

    “…And where’s your source for it being an Earth Sized world again?”

    This is going to be one of those headache inducing try and find every little detail most wouldn’t even think about debates isn’t it?

  29. Ragnorke February 7, 2015 at 4:14 am -      #29

    “This is going to be one of those headache inducing try and find every little detail most wouldn’t even think about debates isn’t it?”

    I think i miss-phrased my sentence about the Earth Sized world thing.

    40.media.tumblr.com/baee0549186f89bb834fe9b921a171e1/tumblr_ndleag9gSa1rxtm41o1_500.jpg
    i.imgur.com/9N0192E.jpg
    So here’s a few examples of the Avatar-verses “map” that i have found.

    Now, my question is, is it ever stated that this is in fact the ENTIRETY of the planet?
    Or is there ever a planetary view of the verse shown from space?

    Because most fantasy fictions only have maps of their “known world”, rather than their entire planet.
    Heck most fantasy fictions don’t even realize they’re on a spherical planet to begin with.

    So these maps showing a single large continent, and several islands isn’t quite enough for me to think this is in fact the entire planet…. Which should be considered the same size as our real life Planet.

    Hope that makes more sense.

  30. Ragnorke February 7, 2015 at 4:23 am -      #30

    “but keep in mind earthbenders can create their own cover and move it.”

    Fair enough.
    But i think Amestrises troops already know about Alchemists, who similarly create their own cover and etc…
    So they aren’t completely inexperienced on the matter.

    ” Especially considering her army consist of people who don’t even need to be that close to magneto the rifles out of their hands and turn it against them.”

    So, what’s the general range that should be expected from Earthbenders?

    “Small stuff like stones or metal blades are basically as a punch away.”

    Considerably slower than pulling a trigger with an index finger i think

    “Again, varies depending on how big the object is but I don’t anyone other then the avatar has gotten projectile above arrow speeds.”

    How fast has the Avatar gotten his projectiles?
    And is there anyone in the verse that can casually dodge rifle rounds?

    “They can tank punches that can send heavy metal battle suit flying ”

    Interesting.
    So tank missiles wouldn’t be very effective against them i reckon?

    “They are heat resistant but has Bolin has shown prolong exposure to lava beats’em.”

    What if the rider inside the suit were to be instantly ignited by Mustang?

    Mustang can also share Hawkeyes Fire Alchemy Circle with the rest of Amestris.
    They thought it would be too dangerous/powerful for the general Alchemist, so their CiS stopped them from letting anyone else learn it.
    In a universal match like this though, would that CiS still be in play?

    “Has there ever been any mention of Amestris anti aircraft weaponry because dropping bombs is a thing in Avatar.”

    I can’t recall any Aircrafts in FMA.
    Edit: I think they have hot air balloons which drop bombs too. Not 100% sure though.

  31. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets February 7, 2015 at 4:23 am -      #31

    “Or is there ever a planetary view of the verse shown from space?”

    Kinda… Maybe… If my memory isn’t failing me, then there was a scene when Aang was trying to go Avatar State with the Guru where he goes to space and you could see the planets and stuff, but it was a spiritual thing, so who knows how accurate it was. Again, if my memory isn’t off.
    =
    The only other time I can think of was in the Library with the evil spirit Owl.

  32. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets February 7, 2015 at 4:25 am -      #32

    “would that CiS still be in play?”

    It’s one of the rules that it does IIRC

  33. Ragnorke February 7, 2015 at 4:37 am -      #33

    BankGambling Debating rule #8

    “Universe battles are special situations in BankGambling where most combatants have multiple PIS and CIS issues associated with each party. In this instance, all factions are to consider the opposition as a lethal menace to be addressed immediately regardless of PIS or CIS in place, forming an indisputable alliance for that universe. Certain CIS issues, however, will continue to stand as would be the case of natural abilities to communicate between factions, physical/psychological limitations from sharing technology, etc.”

    As far as this rule states, the CiS shouldn’t stop Mustang or Hawkeye from spreading the Fire Alch Circle.
    – There’s no physical or psychological limitation to stop the people from learning it.
    – There’s no communication limitation between the factions of Amestris that would stop them from learning it.
    – It has nothing to do with Natural Ability.

    Granted most people won’t be anywhere near as good as Roy. But it should still be good enough to ignite things.

  34. TheSorrow February 7, 2015 at 4:50 am -      #34

    This is just speculation, but if Fuhrer King Bradley is still in play, would his Ultimate Eye give him knowledge in advanced on how to position his troops more efficiently?

    Amestris may be behind in terms of technology, but they have plenty of power houses to level the playing field. Also, an entire army of puppets to do their bidding, which have been proven to be very difficult to put down.

  35. Warlock Lowk February 7, 2015 at 4:52 am -      #35

    “Now, my question is, is it ever stated that this is in fact the ENTIRETY of the planet?
    Or is there ever a planetary view of the verse shown from space?”

    Okay that I can answer. The map is basically the known world to them. Doesn’t seem like they’ve decided whats on the other side of the planet though.
    Five years ago Mike and I talked about that. A lot of what you see wraps around to the other side of the round globe. The map you see is one of those distorted maps to make round appear flat. I think we had talked that a lot of the other hemisphere is water…is ocean. What else might be over there…who knows…
    www.avatarspirit.net/interviews.php?id=19

  36. Warlock Lowk February 7, 2015 at 5:03 am -      #36

    “Granted most people won’t be anywhere near as good as Roy. But it should still be good enough to ignite things.”

    Que to the blooper real of people blowing up or setteing themselves on fire.
    So basically this match would be sort of like fire vs earth nation again.
    ===
    Also same could be said of the cannon. Mech or not they still have the spirit cannon and other methods of moving it around. Plus the means to make more then one. Especially if they aren’t allowed to focus on building a kurviamech. Didn’t even seem to take them more then a few months.

  37. Warlock Lowk February 7, 2015 at 5:09 am -      #37

    “What if the rider inside the suit were to be instantly ignited by Mustang?”

    Refresh my memory because I don’t recall Mustang doing something like that. In fact I recall showing a scan revealing Mustang’s alchemy has to travel to the target. If the suits closed how is it going to get in?
    ===
    “pulling a trigger with an index finger ”

    Unless Amestris is filled with more then one Hawkeye aiming is probably going to add to that.
    ===
    EDIT: Sorry for the triple posts.

  38. Ragnorke February 7, 2015 at 5:16 am -      #38

    “Refresh my memory because I don’t recall Mustang doing something like that”

    He ignited Envys bone marrow without igniting anything else.
    He ignited the inside of Envys eyeballs without the outside of it appearing to be ignited at first.
    He ignited Envys tongue too, mid speech… Which… COULD be used to support this.

    “In fact I recall showing a scan revealing Mustang’s alchemy has to travel to the target.”

    Travelling doesn’t mean it gets stopped at the first thing it touches…
    It’s not the “Fire” that travels, but rather the energy needed to ignite molecules that travels.
    Energy moves through most solid matter.

  39. Warlock Lowk February 7, 2015 at 5:20 am -      #39

    “How fast has the Avatar gotten his projectiles?
    And is there anyone in the verse that can casually dodge rifle rounds?”

    Aang or Korra it think have shown reflexes around that. Quite possibly Iroh considering he caught a natural lightning bolt. other then them I think the arrow dodging or aim-dodging is what most everyone else relies on.
    ===
    “So tank missiles wouldn’t be very effective against them i reckon?”

    I’d say they’d likely survive a hit. Would not say it would be in good condition afterwards.

  40. Ragnorke February 7, 2015 at 5:28 am -      #40

    “Que to the blooper real of people blowing up or setteing themselves on fire.”

    vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/fma/images/0/03/Royxlust.png/revision/latest?cb=20130426212432
    vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/fma/images/4/45/Burning.png/revision/latest?cb=20130527220336
    starlighthorizon.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/142.jpg
    3.bp.blogspot.com/_abkMP58OLUA/S9lZZy5ofEI/AAAAAAAATuo/s4XbL47XPl8/s1600/02+Envy+burned+to+a+crisp.jpg

  41. Ragnorke February 7, 2015 at 5:30 am -      #41

    ““Que to the blooper real of people blowing up or setteing themselves on fire.””

    s11.photobucket.com/user/photoperson17/media/FMA/2419.jpg.html
    38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpapv2bA7N1qf9wd7o1_500.gif
    31.media.tumblr.com/fdbdbe4599120ea6856c81193964e6d0/tumblr_ml3wrqGQUj1qlr56oo1_500.gif

  42. Ragnorke February 7, 2015 at 5:31 am -      #42

    “““Que to the blooper real of people blowing up or setteing themselves on fire.”””

    vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/powerlisting/images/0/01/12daysfma.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20121204004221
    2.bp.blogspot.com/_Un8EGu1Ux7g/S84m4VA8VII/AAAAAAAAAQY/qIgndm0k8_A/s400/%5BTMD-Raze%5D_Fullmetal_Alchemist_Brotherhood_-_53_%5Bh264-720p%5D%5BF5F201FE%5D%5B22-54-43%5D.JPG
    s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/40/4a/c4/404ac4fc6f606605f87e0f6dce17e371.jpg
    images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/7100000/FMA-Brotherhood-Rush-Valley-screencaps-edward-elric-and-winry-rockbell-7145781-1024-576.jpg

  43. Warlock Lowk February 7, 2015 at 5:38 am -      #43

    found the rock bullet thing
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKWjwTE7kHs
    4:51
    ===
    “He ignited Envys bone marrow without igniting anything else.
    He ignited the inside of Envys eyeballs without the outside of it appearing to be ignited at first.”

    The marrow thing I’ll give you. But the eyeballs are exposed.
    ===
    “Travelling doesn’t mean it gets stopped at the first thing it touches…
    It’s not the “Fire” that travels, but rather the energy needed to ignite molecules that travels.”

    I get that but I just hadn’t recalled any instance of it specifically going through something to effect something sealed in.

  44. Ragnorke February 7, 2015 at 5:38 am -      #44

    “So basically this match would be sort of like fire vs earth nation again.”

    Did people in the Fire Nation have guns? (genuine question. I’v never seen Avatar)

    “Unless Amestris is filled with more then one Hawkeye aiming is probably going to add to that.”

    Well… What makes you think the Earth Empire would be any better at aiming?
    If i had to guess, i’d say high velocity bullets are more accurate than throwing projectiles via bending.

    “I’d say they’d likely survive a hit. Would not say it would be in good condition afterwards.”

    Well Amestris has a hefty number of tanks which would help i suppose.
    I’m guessing the Earth Empire has some too?

    “Also same could be said of the cannon.”

    What’s the cannon?

  45. Ragnorke February 7, 2015 at 5:45 am -      #45

    fma.wikia.com/wiki/Solf_J._Kimblee

    This guy can turn anything into an explosive by clapping his hands.
    And:
    ” He has also revealed himself to be capable of causing that instability to flow from one place to another at his will, essentially directing localized explosions from long range.”

    Again, the Transmutation circles on his hands can pretty much be passed to any Alchemist.

  46. Warlock Lowk February 7, 2015 at 5:54 am -      #46

    When did it mention he ignited his bone marrow specifically? Most of the fight seems to either be burning his interior or blasting his eyes. Only thing close to that was the final move where the energy is shown going into him through his open mouth and exploding.
    cdn.mangaeden.com/mangasimg/e1/e16ecb0cc2be6a27aeb16aed4990fecb7ef440c8afc55cdc008d7e23.jpg
    cdn.mangaeden.com/mangasimg/eb/eb8d636c95e007b4e5650d631c94485ab965974a40b59750a5ae5a95.jpg

  47. Warlock Lowk February 7, 2015 at 6:24 am -      #47

    “Did people in the Fire Nation have guns?”

    No but at the time they were sort of the big military power at the time with the most advancements in tech.
    ===
    “Well… What makes you think the Earth Empire would be any better at aiming?”

    For one an earthbender toss boulders at you. They don’t really need to hit their target to affect them. Boulders crashing near you is at the least is going to affect your ability to aim. At worst something getting it by the shards or crushed.
    They don’t really have to bring up sights to aim. They punch or kick and it goes where they want it to. Basically all hip fire.
    Sucks for long range, and I’m pretty sure snipers are going to be one of the deadliest things save for the spirit cannon.
    ===
    “Well Amestris has a hefty number of tanks which would help i suppose.
    I’m guessing the Earth Empire has some too?”

    Yeah.
    ===
    “What’s the cannon?”

    The first man-made WMD of Avatar. Basically a long range energy weapon.
    33.media.tumblr.com/59fede99f961f249529c9755182f5f15/tumblr_nijzxcsTgn1rxl00so6_500.gif
    i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s–i9-7GSg5–/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/vpsznptycjuuvt9qjddq.gif
    Wish I could find the aftereffect that show the hugh gaping hole through whatever it hits.
    EDIT: Found a nice picture of the Kuvira’s mech
    channelawesome.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/korravl.jpg

  48. Ragnorke February 7, 2015 at 6:43 am -      #48

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQaNDbnpo-s&spfreload=10
    ah, here we go

    7:00
    Mustang says “i’m going to ignite your bone marrow”
    Tbh he wasn’t in the mood to be fucking around or exaggerating.

    It makes perfect sense with the way his power works though.
    He picks a location, and ignites it. The alchemic energy needs to travel there, but that energy itself does nothing.

    There was also the time when he was blind, and Hawkeye told him the distance of how far away Father was, rather than just telling him the direction.
    That implies his power pinpoints molecules, rather than sending his power in a direction.

    Mind you, he doesn’t say “burn” your bone marrow, he says “ignite”
    Implying he can directly set the marrow on fire.

  49. Ragnorke February 7, 2015 at 6:46 am -      #49

    channelawesome.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/korravl.jpg

    How hilarious would it be if one of its feet went missing?
    Does it have any innate way to recover?

    OH!
    I just thought of something potentially incredible.
    What if all of Amestris worked together to transmute the entire battlefield.
    What exactly makes up “Earth” in the Avatar-verse?

  50. Hac148 February 7, 2015 at 11:26 am -      #50

    fair, but Amestris still lacks any real air support, which the avatarverse has in droves. all it would take is the simple tactic of carpet bombing an area, then sending in the mech suits and benders. Amestris has the state alchemist trump card sure, but how many have we actually seen? Armstrong, Mustang, Kimblee, Basque Grand, and that ice guy from the first episode. Sure the flashbacks have the whole “Aryian Army” feel to it, but even in that shot we see maybe a dozen, whose abilities are never named and thus cant be quantified. There are the Elrics, but their only benefit is having an automail arm, decent fighting skill, and the lack of the need for a transmutation circle. Thats about it, and Kimblee alone trashed Ed.

  51. Cassie Hack February 7, 2015 at 11:41 am -      #51

    Would the Earth Kingdom army still have Bolin? I mean highly skilled earth/lavabender mucking shit up.

  52. Friendlysociopath February 7, 2015 at 11:55 am -      #52

    all it would take is the simple tactic of carpet bombing an area

    Anti-air is really not that complicated, just shoot up.

    We haven’t really gotten into what alchemists would do for the regular army yet have we? Every armored tank and soldier will be covered in armor as strong as diamond. There will be countless cannons that are multiple stories tall positioned everywhere.
    Production time will become virtually nonexistant, a tank or cannon will take seconds to create. Soldiers made of auto-mail with artificial souls will be pumped out in droves. These same soldiers will only be killed when a certain spot is damaged.
    Homunculus can be manufactured freely, granting a small group near-immortality to being attacked. Chimera can be made with little effort- ensuring a massive supply of cannon fodder.

  53. Hac148 February 7, 2015 at 12:03 pm -      #53

    if we are going at peak, yes. He was a force under the Earth Empire’s command. State Alchemists arent nearly as numerous as benders, and a platoon with rifles is nice, but if they are consumed by an rock slide the next instant, thats the end for them. As for tanks, they werent precisely in abundance at the peak of Amestris. Pre-death of most of the homonculi, the tank was a new invention at brigs, and during the revolution, where we see the full brute of amestrian military force, there is all of a single tank. One that wrath takes out, albeit with the ultimate eye, in seconds. given how we have seen MANY earth benders casually toss tanks, that wont be much of an issue.

  54. Hac148 February 7, 2015 at 12:10 pm -      #54

    “Every armored tank and soldier will be covered in armor as strong as diamond. There will be countless cannons that are multiple stories tall positioned everywhere.
    Production time will become virtually nonexistant, a tank or cannon will take seconds to create. Soldiers made of auto-mail with artificial souls will be pumped out in droves. These same soldiers will only be killed when a certain spot is damaged.
    Homunculus can be manufactured freely, granting a small group near-immortality to being attacked. Chimera can be made with little effort- ensuring a massive supply of cannon fodder.”

    Show me any evidence of any of this seen in the series. The only diamond skin we saw was greed, and he was powered by his own private philosophers stone. Human transmutation, for the sake of the general public, was limited to the three individuals in suits we have seen. Alphonse, Barry the Chopper, and the twins as a single suit. Chimeran soldiers i will give you, were used in the high ranks as elite covert agents for top priority targets, as was kimbley. But Alchemists were never shown to be able to pump out thousands of diamond tanks a day. The only use the military sees for the state alchemists are military combat. Edward was shown to have repairative skills, but never anything so intricate as a tank, and no one else was shown doing anything near that level.

  55. Hac148 February 7, 2015 at 12:14 pm -      #55

    Each homonculous requires a philosophers stone, with the sin based ones we see each having stones numbering in the hundreds. that means eating at the own population.

  56. Friendlysociopath February 7, 2015 at 12:27 pm -      #56

    Show me any evidence of any of this seen in the series.

    Evidence of what exactly? Diamond armor? Ed can do it after seeing Greed do it- and he can teach others. It’s not like it requires constant energy to maintain the alchemy change.

    Human transmutation being limited and taboo is CIS, which we don’t have to deal with. You’re going to need a better excuse than that.

    But Alchemists were never shown to be able to pump out thousands of diamond tanks a day.

    Amestris has shown the ability to make a tank. All they have to do now is speed up production- which is literally seconds of work for alchemists, minutes at best. They’re limited only by materials.
    They can also create trains in large enough quantities to reach over the entire empire, meaning they do have the production facilities to do such a thing.

  57. Jake_Uzumaki February 7, 2015 at 1:02 pm -      #57

    So your suggesting putting all the alchemists in one building that can be blown up by a giant laser cannon?

  58. Hac148 February 7, 2015 at 1:07 pm -      #58

    “All they have to do now is speed up production- which is literally seconds of work for alchemists, minutes at best. They’re limited only by materials.”

    And the intricacy. When Mustang faked a body, he needed every component making up a body and know proportions exactly. The same will need to be done for a tank. Each piece made exactly right, and fitted together correctly. No alchemist, regardless of skill, has EVER been shown able to just pop something that complex into existence, thats why engineers are still a thing in FMA, like automail workers. Alchemists would have to have the engineering knowledge to make that tank, because they would still be putting it together piece by piece, just in their head. So if they can spend a few years out of the war giving their alchemists engineering degrees, by all means. But until then, they will have to do it the old fashioned way with what to them is very new technology.

    “Ed can do it after seeing Greed do it”

    I watced all of brotherhood and i dont know what the hell your talking about. He was shown able to weaken greeds shield by counterbalancing the density of carbon, but that isnt the same as making it. He was never shown to be able to duplicated greed’s armor, no one has. Greed was only able to perform his via the philosophers stone managing it for him.

    “They can also create trains in large enough quantities to reach over the entire empire, meaning they do have the production facilities to do such a thing.”

    Yes, because foreign militaries march into other countries and just start laying down tracks all the time. They would have to bring in their own trains and lay down their own tracks in a foreign country they dont know the layout of while constantly being harrassed by natives, bandits, and the EE military. And the advantage it would give them is questionable at best. they would only be able to lay down tracks and transport things through area’s they can hold, which, with a platoon of normals and maybe 2 or 3 state alchemists versus a platoon of benders and mechs, isnt going to be long if at all. Your overestimating Amestris immensely.

  59. Ragnorke February 7, 2015 at 3:07 pm -      #59

    ” Amestris has the state alchemist trump card sure, but how many have we actually seen? Armstrong, Mustang, Kimblee, Basque Grand, and that ice guy from the first episode.”

    Giolio Comanche, Jack Crowley, Tim Marcoh, Aston Martins, Corniche R. Royce, Seraphy Royce, Shou Tucker, & Lute Zaxophone are a few of the named State Alchemists that you missed.

    Aside from that, there’s still dozens-hundreds of unnamed State Alchemists that you see at various times.
    Then there’s a ton of Alchemists that have nothing to do with the State Military.
    And there’s people like Hohenheim & Scar.

    “but even in that shot we see maybe a dozen, whose abilities are never named and thus cant be quantified.”

    Drawing a transmutation circle and using it has nothing to do with “ability”, it’s a matter of knowledge.
    Knowledge which can be passed down.
    How effectively they can use that knowledge is another matter, but given prep they can set various traps if need be.

    ” given how we have seen MANY earth benders casually toss tanks, that wont be much of an issue.”

    What if the material of the tanks were to be altered?

    ” Human transmutation, for the sake of the general public, was limited to the three individuals in suits we have seen”

    …So?
    Why on earth does this stop them from repeating the process?

    “Each homonculous requires a philosophers stone, with the sin based ones we see each having stones numbering in the hundreds. that means eating at the own population.”

    I see no problem with that.
    The majority of the population (around 30 million) are useless untrained unarmed canon fodder anyways.
    So we now have Philosopher Stones powered by 29.9 million souls.
    Goodluck.

    ” No alchemist, regardless of skill, has EVER been shown able to just pop something that complex into existence, thats why engineers are still a thing in FMA,”

    Why do they need to instantly create the ENTIRE tank?
    They can simply create parts of it, and Engineers can put it together.
    It still drastically cuts the production time.

    “I watced all of brotherhood and i dont know what the hell your talking about. He was shown able to weaken greeds shield by counterbalancing the density of carbon, but that isnt the same as making it. He was never shown to be able to duplicated greed’s armor, no one has.”

    Changing something means knowing it’s structure first. Ed knows that structure.
    It wasn’t “made” again, because PiS & CiS.
    Give me a SINGLE valid reason as to why it cannot be made again.

    “Greed was only able to perform his via the philosophers stone managing it for him.”

    His shield had nothing to do with the philosophers stone. It was simply his power.
    Did Bradley use his stone when using his speed or eye?
    Did Pride use his stone when turning into shadows?
    Did Gluttony use his stone when eating things?
    Did Envy use his stone when shape-shifting?

    “Yes, because foreign militaries march into other countries and just start laying down tracks all the time.”

    “They would have to bring in their own trains and lay down their own tracks in a foreign country they dont know the layout of while constantly being harrassed by natives, bandits, and the EE military.”

    You’re assuming this match takes place in a combination of Amestris & the Earth Empire… but the match rules never say that.
    The match is only the people of Amestris vs the people of EE. Not the lands.
    BankGambling debating rules state all matches take place in a neutral battleground unless specified otherwise.
    Implying both teams have equal knowledge of the battle ground.

    “Your overestimating Amestris immensely.”

    Considering NO ONE here has given any solid estimate or source as to the numbers of the EE… I’d say YOU’RE overestimating the Earth Empire.

  60. Ragnorke February 7, 2015 at 3:15 pm -      #60

    “So your suggesting putting all the alchemists in one building that can be blown up by a giant laser cannon?”

    I still don’t see why Father can’t instantly transmute that thing.
    Or at least parts of it. Enough parts to make it useless.

    And i still don’t see why large chunks of lands can’t be transmuted to a different material such as Rubber. Making all Earth Benders useless.
    No one answered me when i asked what’s considered “Earth” in the Avatar-verse.

    Also, i still don’t see why large chunks of lands can’t be covered in giant transmutation circles as traps, that instantly kill everyone inside them and turn them into more souls for the Phi-stones.

    As if 29.9 million souls weren’t enough already.

  61. Glutinous-Bicarbonate February 7, 2015 at 4:31 pm -      #61

    The Colossus’ spirit ray has some pretty long range to it. It’s operators were able to track down Team Avatar/friends in one building out of the entire city based on a very short radio conversation, as well as backtrace (dun goofed) the source of an Electromagnetic Pulse after it had been fired.

    If these alchemic activities produce a significant amount of energy spilling into the environment, Kuvira could conceivably pinpoint these groupings of Alchemists and blast them from a distance.

  62. wingedlion February 7, 2015 at 4:33 pm -      #62

    “Human transmutation being limited and taboo is CIS, which we don’t have to deal with.”

    Pretty sure the only CIS that’s removed is any problems that factions may have with each other. Other CIS issues are still in play.

  63. Ragnorke February 7, 2015 at 5:06 pm -      #63

    @wingedlion
    “Pretty sure the only CIS that’s removed is any problems that factions may have with each other. Other CIS issues are still in play.”

    Read Debating Rule #8. Last paragraph, regarding universal battles.

    ALL CiS is removed(unless it’s physically impossible), and the enemy faction is considered the greatest threat above all.

  64. wingedlion February 7, 2015 at 5:11 pm -      #64

    “ALL CiS is removed(unless it’s physically impossible), and the enemy faction is considered the greatest threat above all.”

    It does not say that.

    “Universe battles are special situations in BankGambling where most combatants have multiple PIS and CIS issues associated with each party. In this instance, all factions are to consider the opposition as a lethal menace to be addressed immediately regardless of PIS or CIS in place, forming an indisputable alliance for that universe. Certain CIS issues, however, will continue to stand as would be the case of natural abilities to communicate between factions, physical/psychological limitations from sharing technology, etc.”

    It’s saying that any CIS and PIS that prevents the factions from working together to face the opposition is removed.
    However, any other CIS issues are still in play.

  65. Friendlysociopath February 7, 2015 at 5:20 pm -      #65

    …I didn’t mean they would put trains all over the place- the train comment was meant to show that they already can produce locomotives and machines. A train is not that different from a tank when you come down to it.

    Did you really think I meant they would invade the enemy soil with trains?

  66. Warlock Lowk February 7, 2015 at 6:11 pm -      #66

    “Human transmutation being limited and taboo is CIS, which we don’t have to deal with. You’re going to need a better excuse than that.”

    The fact whoever does it has to sacrifice a body part would probably keep all but the most devoted from doing it.
    ===
    “I still don’t see why Father can’t instantly transmute that thing.
    Or at least parts of it. Enough parts to make it useless.”

    Range issues.

  67. Ragnorke February 8, 2015 at 1:18 am -      #67

    “It’s saying that any CIS and PIS that prevents the factions from working together to face the opposition is removed.
    However, any other CIS issues are still in play.”

    Not “Any other CiS” issue is still in play though.
    The very same paragraph goes on to mention exactly WHICH CiS issues are still in place:
    “Certain CIS issues, however, will continue to stand as would be the case of natural abilities to communicate between factions, physical/psychological limitations from sharing technology, etc”

    All of which is irrelevant here.

    Chimeras, Hummunculis, Philisopher Stones… All of these things have been done before in the verse.
    It’s not something unheard of or undoable.
    Will everyone be happy about it? No. But this is a match, not a What If.
    It isn’t about being happy, it’s about beating the opposition, who is the: Lethal Menace, that NEEDS to be dealt with immediately.
    -

  68. wingedlion February 8, 2015 at 1:50 am -      #68

    “Chimeras, Hummunculis, Philisopher Stones… All of these things have been done before in the verse.
    It’s not something unheard of or undoable.”

    If it is in character for people to do those things like you said, then that’s different. I understand that.
    But Freindlysociopath was talking about doing something that’s limited by CIS. My point was showing that all CIS for universe matches are not thrown out.

  69. Ragnorke February 8, 2015 at 3:26 am -      #69

    “But Freindlysociopath was talking about doing something that’s limited by CIS. My point was showing that all CIS for universe matches are not thrown out.”

    Many things are just Plot though, and not even CiS.
    People don’t make diamond hard armor because of Plot. Not because their CiS doesn’t allow them too.

  70. TheSorrow February 8, 2015 at 3:34 am -      #70

    I still didn’t an answer on whether or not Fuhrer King Bradley’s Ultimate Eye could tell him exactly what the Earth Empire’s movements would be in a battle, giving him the opportunity to counter them efficiently.

  71. Rookie February 8, 2015 at 3:41 am -      #71

    @TheSorrow

    “I still didn’t an answer on whether or not Fuhrer King Bradley’s Ultimate Eye could tell him exactly what the Earth Empire’s movements would be in a battle, giving him the opportunity to counter them efficiently.”

    It was stated that Bradley never made a single mistake when he personally commanded his troops in battle and this is why he was such great commander.
    But no, we never see him using UE for commanding troops in war. After all Bradley was raised to be near perfect leader.

  72. TheSorrow February 8, 2015 at 3:58 am -      #72

    But no, we never see him using UE for commanding troops in war.

    I know that, but I am asking what’s stopping him from using his ability to gain an even greater tactical advantage?

  73. Rookie February 8, 2015 at 4:04 am -      #73

    @TheSorrow

    “I know that, but I am asking what’s stopping him from using his ability to gain an even greater tactical advantage?”

    Nothing I suppose. Losing a battle is going to put his life into danger after all…

    Hmmm… I wonder…. That kid who could use shadows have some nice range… can’t he reach with his shadows inside of Kuvira’s mech during night?

  74. Warlock Lowk February 8, 2015 at 4:46 am -      #74

    “I know that, but I am asking what’s stopping him from using his ability to gain an even greater tactical advantage?”

    Isn’t it limited on what he can see? That might help in someplaces but he can’t be everywhere.
    ===
    “People don’t make diamond hard armor because of Plot.”

    Or not many people know how to do it.
    ===
    “That kid who could use shadows have some nice range… can’t he reach with his shadows inside of Kuvira’s mech during night?”

    I think people are focusing too much on the mech itself and not their capability of building sniping death lasers. They don’t need a giant robot to use it. That was just a really cool and intimidating means of moving/aiming it.

    Also wasn’t he better with a source of light? Did they weaken him by shutting him in a dome?

  75. Ragnorke February 8, 2015 at 4:56 am -      #75

    “Or not many people know how to do it”

    Ed is proven to know the structure.
    You draw a circle, you change one thing to another.
    If you know the structure, it can be done.

    “Also wasn’t he better with a source of light? Did they weaken him by shutting him in a dome?”

    He IS a shadow.
    But a shadow cannot exist without light.
    If put in a pitch black room, he can’t exist in his shadow form.

  76. Hermit February 8, 2015 at 6:35 am -      #76

    “It’s saying that any CIS and PIS that prevents the factions from working together to face the opposition is removed.”
    .
    And Father having absolutely no qualms about sacrificing 50 million souls just to create a Philosopher’s Stone…
    .
    “And I still don’t see why large chunks of lands can’t be transmuted to a different material such as Rubber.”
    .
    You can only transmute a substance into something that’s similar to it, like sand to glass, but not sand to wood.
    .
    Oh, and by the way, anything that is in the shape of a circle can be used for transmutation, like the shadow cast by the moon during an eclipse.
    .
    “I think people are focusing too much on the mech itself and not their capability of building sniping death lasers. They don’t need a giant robot to use it. That was just a really cool and intimidating means of moving/aiming it.”
    .
    Did they build more?

  77. Warlock Lowk February 8, 2015 at 7:03 am -      #77

    “Did they build more?”

    End of series so they never got a chance to.

  78. Shgon Dunstan February 8, 2015 at 7:29 am -      #78

    @Ragnorke

    There was a obital shot of the Avatar earth in the second season of LoK, during harmonic convergence IIRC. Besides, it was the whole reason I pointed out that the map covered from poll to poll.

  79. Hermit February 8, 2015 at 7:32 am -      #79

    “There was a obital shot of the Avatar earth in the second season of LoK, during harmonic convergence IIRC”
    .
    Wait, Legend of Korra has an orbital cannon? I’m giving this one to them then.

  80. Shgon Dunstan February 8, 2015 at 7:39 am -      #80

    @Hermit

    …?

    “Shot” as in, you know “picture”, “view”, “clip”.

  81. Ragnorke February 8, 2015 at 7:47 am -      #81

    @Hermit
    “You can only transmute a substance into something that’s similar to it, like sand to glass, but not sand to wood.”

    Which is why i’v repeatedly been asking for what is considered “Earth” in the Avatar-verse, but have yet to receive any response.

    @Shgon
    Can you post it please?

  82. Shgon Dunstan February 8, 2015 at 7:48 am -      #82

    Here you are.

    i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q772/Shgon-Dunstan/avatarplanet_zps47f0608b.png

    Like I said, the EK is HUGE, and the EE controls all of it.

  83. Shgon Dunstan February 8, 2015 at 7:53 am -      #83

    “Which is why i’v repeatedly been asking for what is considered “Earth” in the Avatar-verse, but have yet to receive any response.”

    Earth… Basically all of it. Dirt, rocks, gems, even mud. Sand requires a bit of practice and getting used to, and metal advance training, but even their doable. Lava is “a rare gift” though.

  84. Shgon Dunstan February 8, 2015 at 7:57 am -      #84

    “Earth… Basically all of it. Dirt, rocks, gems, even mud. Sand requires a bit of practice and getting used to, and metal advance training, but even their doable. Lava is “a rare gift” though.”

    Oh yeah… And rock candy, or at least an eatable gem the locals call that. :lol:

  85. Ragnorke February 8, 2015 at 8:00 am -      #85

    Ah fair enough,
    It appears to be the size of Asia… Against a single City State…
    Yea that’s kinda stompy.

    Perhaps OP could limit the numbers?

  86. TheSorrow February 8, 2015 at 11:40 am -      #86

    Isn’t it limited on what he can see? That might help in someplaces but he can’t be everywhere.

    Yes, that’s correct, but at the same time, I doubt it will be too much trouble for him and few Alchemists to make a watchtower that’s capable of surveying the battle.

  87. Secrecy27 February 8, 2015 at 11:54 am -      #87

    It appears to be the size of Asia

    Do we really not have any size mentioned in-verse?

    Do anyone know Affa’s (or whatever Aangs flying bisons called) maximum and cruise speed? I recall them mention somewhere in the show that it would take them a number of days to reach a location. Calculate this with Affa’s speed and we will have an reasonably estimation.

  88. Hac148 February 8, 2015 at 6:35 pm -      #88

    @Secrecy 27
    “Do we really not have any size mentioned in-verse?”

    Unfortunately, no, just the world maps and aerial shots that put it about the size of asia, but no actual raw numbers. The Earth Kingdom, the EE’s predecessor, outlasted the fire nation war for 100 years because of their raw size. Thats why I am really throwing my lot behind them here, despite my love for FMA. The EE has superior numbers and technology, and their raw size allows them to generate MASSIVE amounts of numbers and material, hence the ability to build a giant mech with a nuke gun attached. Toss that, air superiority, and the ability to bend their opponents metal against them, given benders outnumber state alchemists, and while FMA doesnt go down easily, they do eventually fall. Amestris is tough, they are well organized, and have a lot of heavy hitters, but logistically they just cant pull this off.

  89. Belisaurius February 8, 2015 at 7:01 pm -      #89

    As much of an advantage in numbers the Earth Empire has, it’s more or less negated by Amestris’s tech advantage. No amount of numbers are going to matter in the face of WW2 era artillery. Mortars alone would be absolutely devastating as the nature enemy of fortifications.

    The Powered Armor would do better, but it’s not fast enough to keep up with Amestrian tanks and doesn’t have nearly enough armor to stand up to cannon rounds, especially since they’re made of platinum of all things.

    Earthbending is the Earth Empire’s ace in the hole but anybody with a gun has an advantage on an earthbender. While a good metal bender could concievably catch a bullet, a bullet is airborne and can’t be sensed.

    The Earth empire doesn’t have a counter to combat alchemy. I mean, Roy Mustang alone could give the entire army pause. The terrifying thing is that Alchemy is a learned art. While someone has to be born a bender, virtually anyone can become an alchemist. Amestris can just open up a college and crank out alchemists.

    Finally, while Kuvira does rule the Earth Empire, she does so with an iron fist, using raw military might to intimidate her citizens into line. While the military it’self is loyal, loosing enough soldiers and equipment might mean rebellions popping up.

  90. Warlock Lowk February 8, 2015 at 7:23 pm -      #90

    “Earthbending is the Earth Empire’s ace in the hole but anybody with a gun has an advantage on an earthbender.”

    Barriers of earth kind of help nullify small arms. They can literally carry thier cover around with them and metaphorically chuck cannon balls. In an urban enviornment earth a group of benders don’t even need to engage. They can chop down or crumble buildings on top of people. The gunsmens cover can become their own worst nightmare.
    Aside from that they make use of dew in the form of electric guns.

  91. Belisaurius February 8, 2015 at 8:00 pm -      #91

    @Warlock
    Guns are faster than bending. With bending you often need to move your entire body. A gunman just needs to move their arm and finger. By the time an earthbender has raised a barricade a good gunslinger could pop off a couple shots. I shouldn’t need to remind you that Amestris has semi-automatic rifles, do I?

    Guns have better range than benders. A master level bender like Aang could toss a bolder a few hundred meters or so. Expert snipers, like Riza Hawkeye, have been known to kill targets a kilometer away or more.Most semi-automatic rifles have ranges of 500 meters however, this is more of a limitation of the human eye as the Gewehr 43 and the SVT-40 have greater ranges when fitted with a scope.

    A bullet is faster than a rock. Earthbenders toss their stones about as fast as you’d expect from a thrown rock, only bigger. Bullets often break the sound barrier. It’s pretty easy to dodge the rock from an earth bender but it’s not possible to dodge a bullet.

    Most earth benders can’t see with their feet. That seems to be the privilege of Toph and her daughters. Thus, earthbenders need to have line of sight with their targets. If they have line of sight on a gunman, that gunman has line of sight on them and can shoot back.

    A leap frog advanced between earth bended cover would be the best answer to counter the long range of riflemen but it’s a slow method and vulnerable to mortars and grenades. Mortars especially would be terrifying as earthbended walls would shatter, stone being turned into shrapnel in the face of high explosives.

    Could earthbending prove useful against the Amestrian army? Sure. But the Amestrians are still going to be picking Earth Empire soldiers off.

  92. Hac148 February 8, 2015 at 8:02 pm -      #92

    Mortar fire is easily catchable by metal benders, and avatar-verse earthbenders have been tossing around tanks since the days of aang and the fire nation. Not to mention i would say more of WWI era, not WWII. They have rifles and gatlings, not assault rifles and planes. They also lack any airbourne capability whatsoever, whereas airships are, yet again, a common sight in the avatarverse since the first series. While the State Alchemists are powerful, they will be essentially burdened with carrying the entire battle. Footsoldiers alone will be devastated by metal-benders, as the heavy weapons will be useless, and solid earth barriers will neutralize rifle fire. One earthbender can flip a tank and chuck rocks and metal the size of cannonballs and larger at the amestris troops, which will tear through them. Amestrian basic soldiers are boned. The State Alchemists are tough, but we only have the named ones we have seen that will be worth anything. Basic combat alchemists that can simply transmute things will be about the same as benders, if a bit more tactile. That leaves the heavy hitting alchemists, like Armstrong, Basque Grande, Kimbley, and Mustang to do the heavy lifting, which in this case will come in the form of the Kuvira mech. None of them know its exact composition, and that will be a problem as getting close enough to find out means dealing with a nuke gun and the natural pitfalls of going one on one with a giant mech. Kimbley will be good for air support, Mustang can DEVASTATE groups of people, Armstrong isnt much better than your average earthbender, and basque not much better than your average metalbender.

    By the way, i cant stress enough that the first FMA series isnt canon. Brotherhood and the Manga are canon.

  93. Belisaurius February 8, 2015 at 8:27 pm -      #93

    @Hac148
    First off, I’m going by the Brotherhood series. During the siege of Central they had mortars, tripod mounted machine guns, what looked like a Panzer 3, and semi-automatic rifles.

    Mortars aren’t going to be caught. For one, a mortar has a muzzle velocity of about 750 kilometers per hour. Nobody would have the reflexes to catch that.

    Again, earth and metal bending have limited range. We rarely see earth benders move anything beyond a few dozen meters away. WW2 era rifles have ranges of 500 meters or more with scopes.

    I’ll give you airships, though. I should warn you that the first anti-air guns were little more than light artillery pieces. Considering Amestris’s tech level, I wouldn’t be surprised if they had AAA.An airship is a big, sluggish target.

  94. Hac148 February 8, 2015 at 8:37 pm -      #94

    @Belisauris
    Everyone keeps bringing up the tanks. We see a single tank in all of the anime. I am not saying they couldnt make more, but it is a very new technology, even by the end of the series. The first tanks werent all that impressive, as compared to the mech suits and avatar-verse tanks we see. Amestris could undoubtedly make more, but they would be starting from litterally nothing at the start of the war, and the OP never said anything about prep time. The thing about Kuvira’s army is that it is quick. It is very mobile. It had to be. Amestris is a landlocked nation that tightens its borders and polices internally. They arent a conquering nation, Kuvira’s is. Amestris focuses on deterrent, not conquering. Kuvira will be faster, more flexible, and ultimately bring a much bigger pool of people, resources, and tech to the table. I see this war playing out like the battle of the 300. Amestris will hold strong, and inflict immense casualties on Kuvira’s army. But she has the manpower to just keep coming. And eventually Amestris will crack.

  95. Friendlysociopath February 8, 2015 at 9:04 pm -      #95

    and the OP never said anything about prep time

    There’s always prep-time involved in universal wars. Everyone needs to consolidate forces and make battle plans. Otherwise the Earth Empire can spend a couple of weeks and months getting their troops together while Amestris can launch a blitz straight through them.

    Kuvira will be faster, more flexible, and ultimately bring a much bigger pool of people, resources, and tech to the table.

    You want to give proof for any of that? Bigger pool of people I’ll give you, but the rest of that I think you need to back up.
    Particularly how people that travel on foot are faster than people with locomotive and automotive transport?

    And they have better tech in certain areas, not an overall tech advantage. FMA has a better standard tech level, Avatar exceeds it only in certain areas.

    Flexible I’m also not willing to give you as we’ve seen limits to what benders can accomplish, alchemy has a much greater variety of what it can do.

  96. Jake_Uzumaki February 8, 2015 at 9:39 pm -      #96

    “people that travel on foot are faster than people with locomotive and automotive transport?”

    Right its not like the Earth Empire has magnetic bullet train technology that currently crosses the entire Empire for supplying cities and moving troops…
    And its not like there are cars in LoK nope not a single img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Snake101/Avatar/Korra/Book%20One/Chapter%20Four/s01e04grab10800.jpg
    solitary vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/avatar/images/d/dc/Police_car.png/revision/latest?cb=20121112115734
    car.
    Nope the Earth Kingdom doesn’t use anything along the lines of supply trucks whatsoever vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/avatar/images/2/2f/Earth_Kingdom_truck.png/revision/20081225190745
    And heaven forbid they have something like a tank with an engine vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/avatar/images/c/c3/Kuvira%27s_army_tanks.png/revision/latest?cb=20141031121327

    Nope FMA totally has the only automobiles and tanks and trains in this match. If only someone in the Avatarverse called Kuvira the Great Uniter existed with a magnetic rail train vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/avatar/images/9/97/Kuvira%27s_train.png/revision/latest?cb=20141005182602

  97. Friendlysociopath February 8, 2015 at 9:55 pm -      #97

    Boy, it’s like none of that was posted when I made that comment. What else would you expect?

    But we seriously have no numbers for the Earth Empire?

  98. Jake_Uzumaki February 8, 2015 at 10:08 pm -      #98

    I showed the tanks in the 5th post.

    As for numbers…enough that the United Republic forces had to be backed by the National Armies of the Fire Nation and Water Tribes before President Raico thought they would have a chance to stop them at the line….and this was before he knew about the death ray.

    And here’s their arrival at ZaoFu www.nick.com/videos/clip/legend-of-korra-218-clip-64847819919.html

  99. Jake_Uzumaki February 8, 2015 at 10:11 pm -      #99

    That said I’m pretty sure Su is wrong about that being the entire army..considering we know she had troops on the borders and protecting concentration camps.

  100. Jake_Uzumaki February 8, 2015 at 10:16 pm -      #100

    here’s a couple other images of the ZaoFu forces
    i.imgur.com/GQzNHvf.jpg
    vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/avatar/images/4/47/Army_at_Zaofu's_gates.png/revision/latest?cb=20141101031722

    And it should be noted Kuvira only wanted people of Earth Empire nationality in her Earth Empire…..a nationality no one in Amestris has…she’s not going to stage shows of force, she’s just going to move in and slaughter every city to the last man woman and child, maybe she’ll enslave some civilians or let them flee but more than likely she’s just going to leave an ocean of Amestrian blood in her wake.

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