Super Robot Wars Vs Doctor Who

Super Robot Wars Vs Doctor Who

Suggested by Sauroposeidon

Super Robot Wars against Doctor Who !

 

Well, it was brought up in a conversation on the ‘pile that the Dr.Who franchise is above the SRW franchise. I thought, hey, that might make an interesting match, so… let them fight.

 

Two scenarios.

 

1. With Demonbane.

 

2. Without Demonbane.

 

Have at it, folks!

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100 Comments on "Super Robot Wars Vs Doctor Who"

  1. Rookie January 24, 2015 at 6:24 am -      #1

    From 5:00:

  2. Commander Cross January 24, 2015 at 9:14 am -      #2

    Right on the Weekend of my birthday too.
    Also blast it I ought to go get some sort of fight ready before the month ends. :(

    Initial bets says There Goes The Cosmic Neighborhood really.

  3. Malenfant January 24, 2015 at 10:48 am -      #3

    With Demonbane:

    Depends on version. Kishin Taido and Zanmataisei are top tier, but go down thanks to Guardian intervention and other nonsense. Elder God Demonbane crushes the Whoniverse, and likely Gunshin Kyoshuu and Hakaishin as well.

    Demonbane as a franchise stomps.

    Without Demonbane:

    SRW is ripped apart, even things like TTGL and Perfectio are low tier and have trouble threatening the Time Lords (the singularity attack pictured above is close to Omega’s attack on the Time Lords, and that didn’t exactly work out).

  4. Sauroposeidon January 24, 2015 at 11:20 am -      #4

    I would estimate that Dark Brain would be a fairly serious threat. Anything that can destroy an entire universe is going to be a threat to Dr.Who, like TTGL. The rampant brain washing going on I can see being an issue. I dread to think of what the Balmarr would build for The Doctor to pilot if they ever got a hold of him.

    Factions like The Daleks and the Cybermen I don’t consider much of an issue. This is really more Time Lords vs SRW End Bosses is what it comes down to.

    That’s just what it seems like to me.

    There are, of course, several heroic mecha which are dangerous, such as the showcased Neo-Granzon. All of the Tenga Toppa scale mecha from TTGL, Valzacard, the Buster Machines, Dis Astraganat, Ideon and so on..

    Kali Yuga seems like she might be a difficult thing to stop to me, as well as Euzeth Gozzo.. who apparently orchestrated everything that ever happened ever across all of time and every reality. Guy gets around, if you believe what he says.

    The guy’s an impressive infiltrator, having wormed his way in to the Balmarr forces up to.. what was it? Second in command? Cloned some girl who was killed by the Zentradi and made an army of them, suggesting he’s got some education in genetics, came from another dimension before this

    His Adamatron mecha shows off that besides having a strong understanding of genetics, he’s also an impressive mechanical engineer, with a grasp on physics rivaling the Time Lords. Especially with its ability to revive him from different dimensions, control over causality, and supposedly the ability to remake universes. This puts him on par with the Anti-Spirals, I think. I like how he can summon alternate reality versions of past bosses you’ve defeated and have them come at you whenever he wants.

  5. Friendlysociopath January 24, 2015 at 11:22 am -      #5

    Leaning towards Dr. Who just for the sheer amount of “wtf” things they have.

  6. Malenfant January 24, 2015 at 11:54 am -      #6

    “I would estimate that Dark Brain would be a fairly serious threat. Anything that can destroy an entire universe is going to be a threat to Dr.Who, like TTGL. The rampant brain washing going on I can see being an issue. I dread to think of what the Balmarr would build for The Doctor to pilot if they ever got a hold of him.”

    The thing is, the Doctor has dealt with eldritch, universe destroying abominations before. With prep, he has done things like rendering a group of 4-dimensional+ reality warpers hapless in front of him, and this isn’t counting the times he has been powered up to nigh-omnipotence. The guy’s totally capable of telling Lovecraftian monsters to fuck off and make him coffee.

    As for Doctor Who itself, blowing up a universe is so insignificant to the main powers as the energy of a supernovae is to the total mass-energy of the observable universe.

    “Factions like The Daleks and the Cybermen I don’t consider much of an issue. This is really more Time Lords vs SRW End Bosses is what it comes down to.”

    I think your downplaying these guys here. The Daleks have shown to destroy planets and suns in ease during their lesser incarnations, higher end and we see entire universes or the multiverse being threatened. Time War Daleks were a match for the Time Lords themselves.

    As for the Cybermen, one of their incarnations was fighting against a humanity who could destroy galaxies (and survived when this tactic was deployed against them).

  7. Sauroposeidon January 24, 2015 at 12:16 pm -      #7

    “The thing is, the Doctor has dealt with eldritch, universe destroying abominations before. With prep, he has done things like rendering a group of 4-dimensional+ reality warpers hapless in front of him, and this isn’t counting the times he has been powered up to nigh-omnipotence. The guy’s totally capable of telling Lovecraftian monsters to fuck off and make him coffee.”

    To be fair, the Doc has a ton of plot shielding. I can’t tell you how many episodes I’ve seen where if his enemies reacted remotely realistically, he’d already be dead. Especially earlier seasons of the reboot. He is also often saved entirely by luck.

    “As for Doctor Who itself, blowing up a universe is so insignificant to the main powers as the energy of a supernovae is to the total mass-energy of the observable universe.”

    Wiping out realities seems to be something that makes them stop what they’re doing to halt. You’re pumping them up too much.

    “I think your downplaying these guys here. The Daleks have shown to destroy planets and suns in ease during their lesser incarnations, higher end and we see entire universes or the multiverse being threatened. Time War Daleks were a match for the Time Lords themselves.”

    I like the Daleks, I do, but they never really seemed Time Lord levels of dangerous. I’m often surprised at how they’re treated when they seem easily beaten at every turn.

    “As for the Cybermen, one of their incarnations was fighting against a humanity who could destroy galaxies (and survived when this tactic was deployed against them).”

    Well it’s a good thing that they can spam those kinds of attacks just to make sure.

    I’m also curious as to how the Getter Robo series stuff will play in to this.

  8. Epicazeroth January 24, 2015 at 12:36 pm -      #8

    @Sauro: “To be fair, the Doc has a ton of plot shielding. He is also often saved entirely by luck.”
    True. But the thing is, this is a canon ability of his. Time Lords have the ability to naturally make probability waves collapse in their favor; he literally has the universe on his side.

    “they never really seemed Time Lord levels of dangerous.”
    To be fair, they were weakened a lot by the Time War. Just not as much as the Time Lords. They were supposed to have been completely wiped out; that may actually be the case after Day of the Doctor.

  9. Malenfant January 24, 2015 at 12:53 pm -      #9

    “To be fair, the Doc has a ton of plot shielding. I can’t tell you how many episodes I’ve seen where if his enemies reacted remotely realistically, he’d already be dead. Especially earlier seasons of the reboot. He is also often saved entirely by luck.”

    He’s a Time Lord, so he has *plot shields* by design. It’s part of the nature of Time Lords.

    “Wiping out realities seems to be something that makes them stop what they’re doing to halt. You’re pumping them up too much.”

    Maybe towards what we commonly see. Chronovores eat universes, and Guardians of Time view Chronovores as Chronovores view mere humans.

    “I like the Daleks, I do, but they never really seemed Time Lord levels of dangerous. I’m often surprised at how they’re treated when they seem easily beaten at every turn.”

    Beaten at every turn… when the Doctor is involved? Being foiled of by the Doctor is hardly something to be ashamed off. In fact, surviving at all is pretty impressive.

  10. Sauroposeidon January 24, 2015 at 1:16 pm -      #10

    “True. But the thing is, this is a canon ability of his. Time Lords have the ability to naturally make probability waves collapse in their favor; he literally has the universe on his side.”

    And in which episode was this brought up? Because half the time it’s just “faith” that his companion will succeed. Thus why he likes humans so much.

    I’ve kept up with the series up until the last year or two. I don’t recall them ever outright stating that he just changes probability to make him succeed, or to make the guys with guns not just shoot him.

    “To be fair, they were weakened a lot by the Time War. Just not as much as the Time Lords. They were supposed to have been completely wiped out; that may actually be the case after Day of the Doctor.”

    Yeah, only one escaped as I recall. That doesn’t change much.

    “Beaten at every turn… when the Doctor is involved? Being foiled of by the Doctor is hardly something to be ashamed off. In fact, surviving at all is pretty impressive.”

    And the Doctor’s been completely tricked by an Incan witch doctor. He’s as fallible as you or I.

  11. Malenfant January 24, 2015 at 1:33 pm -      #11

    “And in which episode was this brought up? Because half the time it’s just “faith” that his companion will succeed. Thus why he likes humans so much.”

    It’s EU, but going by the show he can see all of time detect discrepancies such as time loops, retroanullment, etc. etc. based on Parting of the Ways.

    I’m also confused why the Doctor’s relevant here. He’s far from all that DW is packing.

    “And the Doctor’s been completely tricked by an Incan witch doctor. He’s as fallible as you or I.”

    He’s never been permanently put down, however. Neither has any threat against him ever succeeded completely in their task.

  12. Friendlysociopath January 24, 2015 at 1:41 pm -      #12

    And in which episode was this brought up?

    Pretty sure that’s a book thing. The novels kind of decided to go “the hell with it” and just break the rules whenever they wanted.

  13. Sauroposeidon January 24, 2015 at 1:46 pm -      #13

    “Pretty sure that’s a book thing. The novels kind of decided to go “the hell with it” and just break the rules whenever they wanted.”

    Then I suppose I need to ask if they’re canon. Since I’m only familiar with the show.

  14. Sauroposeidon January 24, 2015 at 1:55 pm -      #14

    “He’s never been permanently put down, however. Neither has any threat against him ever succeeded completely in their task.”

    The same could be said of Coop from Megas XLR.

    Ya know, this complete moron.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXqOLWjIByg

    So.. not sayin’ much there, just sayin’.

  15. Yatsukahagi January 24, 2015 at 2:19 pm -      #15

    A battalion of online debaters, they’re the only other group inconsistent and incoherent enough to match Super Robot Wars and Doctor Who.

  16. Epicazeroth January 24, 2015 at 2:29 pm -      #16

    @Sauro: “Then I suppose I need to ask if they’re canon.”
    Crap. Dr. Who “has no canon”: tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Canon
    It’s kind of like asking for canon for a mythological character.

    “The same could be said of Coop from Megas XLR.”
    Yeah, but he’s in a ridiculous Giant Death Robot. The Doctor isn’t.

  17. Friendlysociopath January 24, 2015 at 2:37 pm -      #17

    So… there’s no evidence the books are canon beyond nobody saying they aren’t?

  18. Sauroposeidon January 24, 2015 at 4:46 pm -      #18

    Why don’t we just e-mail Moffat and ask him?

  19. Jake_Uzumaki January 24, 2015 at 5:50 pm -      #19

    If I remember right, need to find it again, but I read something about Doctor Who’s canon policy basically being if its published its canon, there’s no one thing higher than the other or that takes precedence.

  20. Malenfant January 24, 2015 at 6:11 pm -      #20

    Canon’s probably anything licensed by BBC.

    Even going by the show alone DW is still powerful. Time Lords have dismantled galaxies, can move entire planets through spacetime, routinely time loop planets, lock solar systems outside of the universe, delete objects from reality, and their equivalent of cars can travel anywhere in spacetime, cross dimensions, tow planets, laugh off black holes and supernovae, etc. Their strategic weapons are even more broken.

    Then we have Eternals, who have shown strongly Q-like qualities (vast power of spacetime, mind control, live in higher dimensions), Guardians who can do things like waltz through the Time Lords Transduction Barrier or depower Eternals entirely.

    I still stand by the statement that Doctor Who loses provided Demonbane’s involvement (higher end verisions), but otherwise crushes SRW.

    “The same could be said of Coop from Megas XLR.

    Ya know, this complete moron.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXqOLWjIByg

    So.. not sayin’ much there, just sayin’.”

    The Doctor is patently smarter than him.

  21. Friendlysociopath January 24, 2015 at 6:34 pm -      #21

    Would someone mind explaining this Demonsbane?

  22. Malenfant January 24, 2015 at 6:48 pm -      #22

    A series by Nitroplus with Cthulhu Mythos and mecha elements, penned by Haganeya Jin. Very high end combat elements, with the plot revolving heavily around the Other Gods (Elder/Outer Gods in Demonbane) from Lovecraft perhaps downscaled a bit. Of course, down scaling still means we’re talking about pantheons of gods who are each capable of creating and destroying infinite universes with their eyes closed.

    The exact power each Demonbane holds varies depending upon incarnation.

  23. Sauroposeidon January 24, 2015 at 11:45 pm -      #23

    “The Doctor is patently smarter than him.”

    I wasn’t saying he wasn’t. I was just pointing out why your statement didn’t mean anything.

    “Then we have Eternals, who have shown strongly Q-like qualities (vast power of spacetime, mind control, live in higher dimensions), Guardians who can do things like waltz through the Time Lords Transduction Barrier or depower Eternals entirely”

    Considering the problems that arose when discussing the Anti-Spirals in that multi-team match that had both TTGL and Dr.Who, I think it’s probably a good idea to avoid the more vague super powers for whom we have no real way to quantify what they’re doing. Otherwise I’d of already pushed for “Anti-Spirals solo.”

  24. Aelfinn January 25, 2015 at 1:26 am -      #24

    The “Time Lords have plot on their side” is just straight bullshit to make up for bad writing, but my own problems with that aside, if there is no canon policy at all…then what can we say is canon? What if I don’t accept the theory that “if it’s published, it’s canon”?
    =
    Here’s the thing: Doctor Who is probably the most inconsistent franchise out there, even within the TV series. The Daleks have a mothership that can blow up a planet with three missiles…but then they bombard Gallifrey with their entire fleet for hours? days? and nothing happens to it. Then they suddenly whip out the Reality Bomb to destroy all of existence.

    Or what about the Time Lord super-weapon? The one kept hidden, with a nigh-omniscient operating system and the ability to cross time-streams? The one that the Time Lords never wanted to use even when they were being defeated by the Daleks? It’s referred to as some kind “Galaxy-Destroyer” or something like that. However, when the Doctor moves Gallifrey out of the Universe, everyone thinks the weapon has been used, despite it destroying all of one planet.

  25. Soulerous January 25, 2015 at 1:34 am -      #25

    The Daleks have a mothership that can blow up a planet with three missiles…but then they bombard Gallifrey with their entire fleet for hours? days? and nothing happens to it.
    -Without knowing which scene you’re talking about, I’m guessing that’s due to the mega-amazing-shield they have set up around the whole planet.

  26. Aelfinn January 25, 2015 at 2:12 am -      #26

    “I’m guessing that’s due to the mega-amazing-shield they have set up around the whole planet.”

    That shield was completely gone, if it was even there to begin with. We see the Dalek weapons hit the ground, and they aren’t all that impressive.

  27. Soulerous January 25, 2015 at 2:50 am -      #27

    Oh.

  28. Sauroposeidon January 25, 2015 at 9:38 am -      #28

    :then what can we say is canon? What if I don’t accept the theory that “if it’s published, it’s canon”?

    Well, it might be fun to discuss how things go with EU and with straight just the show. I still think if we e-mail moffat that could be fun too. =D

  29. Malenfant January 25, 2015 at 10:54 am -      #29

    “I wasn’t saying he wasn’t. I was just pointing out why your statement didn’t mean anything”

    It does mean something: his nature as a Time Lord, among other things, allows him to always defeat his threat. I’ll expand on this later.

    “Considering the problems that arose when discussing the Anti-Spirals in that multi-team match that had both TTGL and Dr.Who, I think it’s probably a good idea to avoid the more vague super powers for whom we have no real way to quantify what they’re doing. Otherwise I’d of already pushed for “Anti-Spirals solo.”

    Doctor Who superpowers are anything but vague… depending on how we’re defining the canon. They have plenty of screentime even talking about the show alone.

    “The “Time Lords have plot on their side” is just straight bullshit to make up for bad writing,”

    It’s not actual plot. It’s *science*.

    “Here’s the thing: Doctor Who is probably the most inconsistent franchise out there, even within the TV series.”

    People love to make this claim, but always seem to be pretty ignorant about the show.

    “The Daleks have a mothership that can blow up a planet with three missiles…but then they bombard Gallifrey with their entire fleet for hours? days? and nothing happens to it.”

    That’s because it had employed use of Sky Trenches, and possibly had the Quantum Forcefield or whatever up. Plot point of The Day/Time of the Doctor.

    “Then they suddenly whip out the Reality Bomb to destroy all of existence.”

    ..that was after (or at least after it was timelocked) the Time War. By a rescued Davros, leading a ragtag band of Daleks who probably weren’t even Time War version. With no one besides the Doctor able to stop him.

    “Or what about the Time Lord super-weapon? The one kept hidden, with a nigh-omniscient operating system and the ability to cross time-streams? The one that the Time Lords never wanted to use even when they were being defeated by the Daleks? It’s referred to as some kind “Galaxy-Destroyer” or something like that.”

    The Moment? They didn’t want to use that because they were afraid of it, and already had something better planned (Final Sanction).

    “However, when the Doctor moves Gallifrey out of the Universe, everyone thinks the weapon has been used, despite it destroying all of one planet.”

    You forget that the Dalek fleet was destroyed because of the crossfire of their weapons, and the Doctor then used the Key of Time to lock away the entire war, so no one could really examine it.

  30. Sauroposeidon January 25, 2015 at 11:52 am -      #30

    Valzacard sees your opts to go full rape on your dimension.
    .
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vj1ATBB39Q

    We all know shit’s getting more serious when its spam vulcan attack is the hyper death ray ultimate attack of one of its constituent mecha. When it’s melee option is literally called Dimension Breaker though.. Why do you even have other robots in your army?

  31. Sauroposeidon January 25, 2015 at 12:11 pm -      #31

    I must have deleted “defenses” but.. really the blank space works for virtually anything most of the Who factions have. Like, again, the Cybermen.

  32. Epicazeroth January 25, 2015 at 6:22 pm -      #32

    @Mal: “Doctor Who superpowers are anything but vague”
    No, they’re pretty vague.

    “It’s not actual plot. It’s *science*.”
    It’s Space Magic.

    “People love to make this claim, but always seem to be pretty ignorant about the show.”
    Except that it is inconsistent.

  33. Malenfant January 25, 2015 at 9:11 pm -      #33

    “No, they’re pretty vague.”

    Based on what? We have a multitude of feats for things like the Eternals and Chronovores.

    “Except that it is inconsistent.”

    You’re nearly proving my point here.

  34. Epicazeroth January 25, 2015 at 11:34 pm -      #34

    @Mal: “Based on what? We have a multitude of feats for things like the Eternals and Chronovores.”
    Ah. I thought you were talking about the civilizations.
    Though, aren’t those only really in the EU? Haven’t we not decided whether the EU is canon?

    “You’re nearly proving my point here.”
    I’ve watched every episode since the start of Tenant’s run, and a few of Eccleston’s. Some of the inconsistency can be explained by there being different incarnations of various factions, but not all.

  35. Fezzes January 26, 2015 at 12:12 am -      #35

    EU is canon. Night Of The Doctor. Eighth Doctor mentions companions that only appeared in audios and books.

    @Epicazeroth: Really? That’s not much. You have missed about 60-70% of the show.

    Seriously, Battle Tardises have been described as casually one-shotting continents. Don’t fucking mess with the Time Lords.

    Also, Time Travel technology is invaluable for reconnaissance of the enemy.

    All the Time Lords have to do is ‘LOL your planets are now exploded via Antimatter’.

  36. The Imperator January 26, 2015 at 1:29 am -      #36

    In response to canon:

    RTD said: that canon “is a word which has never been used in the production office, not once, not ever” (DWM #356)

    RTD: “usually happy for old and new fans to invent the Complete History of the Doctor in their heads, completely free of the production team’s hot and heavy hands.” (DWM #356)

    RTD also said that thinking of the audios as being ‘non-canonical’ is boring and idiotic. (The Writer’s Tale)


    And Moffatt : “It is impossible for a show about a dimension-hopping time traveller to have a canon.”
    – Steven Moffat, San Diego, 2008.”


    Around the internet, I’ve seen the general rule used that officially licensed products are used. So TV, BBC and Virgin novels, Marvel and other company comics, and the Big Finish Audios. That generally seems to work pretty well.

    There’s no reason to assume the show is any more “canon” than the books, apart from arbitrary desire to not allow a part of the Doctor Who fiction.



    @Friendlysociopath: Nah, the books didn’t do anything crazier than what the show writers wanted. The Virgin novels (where multiple novels hint at a sort of higher level power to the Time Lords) was stated to be the direct continuation of the show by the show writer at the time. Both the show and books say that Time Lords can see all of time at once, and both the show and the EU have called the Doctor a complex space-time event, which Moffat also used in one of the short stories he wrote before he became a writer for the show. Generally, the EU is pretty good about agreeing with itself.



    @Aelfinn: Actually, the Quantum Forcefield, which is only from a TV episode mind you, was stated in the episode to be set up so that it couldn’t be taken down without accidentally destroying Gallifrey. We also know from the EU, and the episode, that said QF could be resized. So the logical solution, using only show material, is that the Time Lords simply pulled it down smaller, probably to just defend the council room, which is why we see all the crashed saucers in End of Time.

    The Transduction Barrier was almost certainly still up, since the Daleks weren’t simply going back in time and changing Gallifrey’s past. RTD directly referenced a bunch of audios in one of his responses to how the Time War worked, which had the Doctor being dumb and accidentally giving the Daleks a bunch of information on how Time Lord stuff worked. Basically, Daleks started the War at Time Lord level.



    Also, from what the Time Lords said in End of Time, Gallifrey was the least dangerous part of the war to be in during EoT/Day of the Doctor, due to being the furthest from the actual fighting. We know that the War was fought with fleets of TARDISes, and that the unvierse and the Time Vortex were affected by the damage done in the fighting.



    Apart from Time Lords, there are Lampreys, Chronovores, Eternals, the Guardians, the Old Ones, and other higher end guys.

  37. The Imperator January 26, 2015 at 1:37 am -      #37

    Forgot to add to the canon thing, I know nothing of the plays, so I can’t comment on whether or not they fit or are just retellings of older stories set on stage. I generally don’t use them when debating, but I’m sure there are some people out there who do.

    I know some of the plays use alternate versions of Doctors, which would make them part of the Doctor Who multiverse, but not part of the main-verse. So regardless, since this fight is all of Doctor Who, I guess they’d be in it.




    As to Time Lord “plot shields,” they can see all of time and space (Parting of the Ways/Timewyrm novels) and subtly manipulate probability around them (like John Constantine).

  38. The Ultimate Overlord January 26, 2015 at 5:04 am -      #38

    Shall I pull up the ttgl respect thread or that universe group match with ttgl and DW or save myself the trouble and say Demonbane, STTGL, Getter Emporor, and all other mechs capable of fusing fuse together into a super cause of “reasons”.

  39. Malenfant January 26, 2015 at 3:20 pm -      #39

    “Ah. I thought you were talking about the civilizations.
    Though, aren’t those only really in the EU? Haven’t we not decided whether the EU is canon?”

    Civilizations are also better defined than you’d think, both in the show and EU.

    “I’ve watched every episode since the start of Tenant’s run, and a few of Eccleston’s. Some of the inconsistency can be explained by there being different incarnations of various factions, but not all.”

    And this inconsistency would be?

    “Shall I pull up the ttgl respect thread or that universe group match with ttgl and DW or save myself the trouble and say Demonbane, STTGL, Getter Emporor, and all other mechs capable of fusing fuse together into a super cause of “reasons”.”

    Getter Emperor and STTGL add literally nothing to Demonbane’s power. Nothing.

  40. Sauroposeidon January 26, 2015 at 3:31 pm -      #40

    “both in the show and EU.”

    Just to re-clarify in case anyone missed it. I am allowing the discussion of both the core show and the show+EU. If it’s EU, that doesn’t render it useless for the debate.

    SRW of course has no real EU.. so.. everything goes.

  41. Fezzes January 26, 2015 at 4:34 pm -      #41

    @Sauroposeidon: Cool. That allows boatloads more feats. I can’t remember anything off the top of my head as I haven’t read anything DW-related recently.

    There’s always the Time Scoop. Would it be possible to use the Time Scoop on several supernovas or black holes and deposit them next to a main world? That would be hilarious. Seriously, just mass-produce and weaponise Time Scoops or something, you literally don’t need anything else.

  42. The Imperator January 26, 2015 at 4:44 pm -      #42

    Eternals were able to handwave pulsars into existence, so doing the same with black holes shouldn’t be too hard.

  43. Fezzes January 26, 2015 at 5:33 pm -      #43

    Good point. I forgot that that type of being wasn’t excluded.

  44. Epicazeroth January 26, 2015 at 5:35 pm -      #44

    @Mal: “Civilizations are also better defined than you’d think, both in the show and EU.”
    Or, they’re defined worse than you think. But you have to show repeated, consistent, concrete examples of their capabilities.

  45. pimpmage January 26, 2015 at 6:12 pm -      #45

    Can someone repost demonbane feats? Didn’t that think rival ttgl mechs?

  46. Malenfant January 26, 2015 at 6:20 pm -      #46

    “Or, they’re defined worse than you think. But you have to show repeated, consistent, concrete examples of their capabilities.”

    I don’t have to show anything, you’re the one making the assertive claim that Whoniverse powers are internally inconsistent. Provide for your claim.

    “Can someone repost demonbane feats? Didn’t that think rival ttgl mechs?”

    Here’s feats for the underpowered form of Gunshin Kyoshuu, a low end version of Demonbane:

    “Demonbane increased its speed to its limit, and activated its space distortion engine. However, Liber Legis’ left hand pointed at Demonbane…
    Demonbane’s time was stopped. But before that, Demonbane also pointed its left hand with De Maligny Watch activated.

    In order to create time flow for their own, two tangled time manipulation spells grabbed space time structure and twisted it with invisible hands. Between two enormous strengths, the universe screamed and exploded.”

    “From below, infinite gravity balls smashed through wall of space.
    Due to slow reaction, Demonbane got hit by some of them, losing all legs, right arm, waist, head…. 70% of entire body instantly vanished. The second wave headed to the chest….
    Demonbane lifted its left hand. Energy from the two hearts concentrated on palm
    “Defense spell… no…, we can’t take them out!”

    Demonbane’s chest was engulfed by super gravity ball and disintegrated in molecular level..
    All that was left was front side of right elbow.
    At the palm, sign of watch was glowing bright.
    Time manipulation spell “De Marigny’s clock.
    As the sting reversed with creaking sound, the time was rewind.

    Chest, head, right arm, all legs…, Once completely disintegrated robot reversed principle of cause and effect and regenerated.
    At the same time, those infinite gravity balls went to opposite direction and headed to one spot.”

    Both from Gunshin Kyoshuu. Basically in a fight Demonbane had the immense power between the two mecha destroyed the universe (with them still unscathed). In this is their weaker form, from one of the weaker Demonbane incarnations.

  47. Sauroposeidon January 26, 2015 at 10:04 pm -      #47

    “I don’t have to show anything, you’re the one making the assertive claim that Whoniverse powers are internally inconsistent. Provide for your claim.”

    Why don’t you start with feats? You’ve said things but never shown them. On the other hand, there’s Neo-Granzon destroying a galaxy casually, and Valcazard breaking reality with a swing of it’s sword, and destroying.. a dimension? a galaxy? I’m not sure.. with its bow.

    Then there’s this..

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGSt2FsJOdI

    And this..

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiH-Q0Pd2tU

    and this..

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU87HjrNhxU

    Just a few examples, to remind you of how debating is normally done. You’re talking about things but it doesn’t help anyone since only you and those who have read the books, seen the plays, and watched the newest episodes know what you’re talking about.

  48. pimpmage January 26, 2015 at 10:22 pm -      #48

    What all universes does Super robot wars include?

  49. Malenfant January 26, 2015 at 10:25 pm -      #49

    “Why don’t you start with feats? You’ve said things but never shown them. On the other hand, there’s Neo-Granzon destroying a galaxy casually, and Valcazard breaking reality with a swing of it’s sword, and destroying.. a dimension? a galaxy? I’m not sure.. with its bow.”

    That comment wasn’t dedicated to straight up evidence of one side’s precedence, but in response (and to repost one of my older comments):

    “The space-time continuum in the vicinity of Earth was alive, a teeming mass of wings, claws and beaks, shining predators ripping, tearing, gorging. Parallel universes and alternate realities, consumed in an instant.

    The feast of the Chronovores had begun.”-
    Quantum Archangel

    Chronovores eat entire universes:

    “As the Masters WarTARDIS felt the first warmth of the Eye’s majesty, it’s topology twisted once more, forming a five-dimensional lense that focused the unstoppable might that instantly flooded through the wormhole.

    An actinic spear arced out across both the space-time continuum and the time vortex – and hit the precise centre of the Chronovores’ vicious flock.

    The reaction was immediate. A few Chronovores effectively evaporated under the onslaught, their polydimensional matrices shattering under the impact; many more were caught in the edges of the blast and left injured or dying, their once perfect bodies deformed and broken.”
    -Quantum Archangel

    A top-of-the-line War TARDIS blows some away in a single shot.

  50. Sauroposeidon January 26, 2015 at 10:26 pm -      #50

    More examples..

    Like this..

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJfN0KowDY4

    And this…

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=za_zo7ksvD8

    As well as this..

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e8L4zUYYdc

    And also this thing..

  51. Sauroposeidon January 26, 2015 at 10:30 pm -      #51

    “A top-of-the-line War TARDIS blows some away in a single shot.”

    Eating time out from under a universe doesn’t imply universe level durability..

    Ideon destroys and makes universes. It has been taken down twice by decided non-universe level opponents. Once in its past universe and once in the Gundam universe. Just an example of how your scaling is faulty. All we can see is that the Tardis can strike on multiple dimensions at once, presumably, and even this is a guess.

  52. Fezzes January 27, 2015 at 12:33 am -      #52

    Hmm. Galaxy busting eh? Meet Chronovores. Now they eat SRW universe. Unless something there has resistance to having its universe get eaten, then I would say that DW wins this easily.

    That’s the problem with higher tier universes, it becomes an ‘I eat your universe, then I teabag this Supercluster.’ sort of fight.

  53. pimpmage January 27, 2015 at 1:18 am -      #53

    “Hmm. Galaxy busting eh? Meet Chronovores. Now they eat SRW universe. Unless something there has resistance to having its universe get eaten, then I would say that DW wins this easily.”

    I don’t think you know very much about the TTGL verse. Their highest tier mechs can resist all sorts of neigh omni reality warping through sheer willpower. They also use galaxy clusters as battlefields. They literally stand on groups of thousands of galaxies. And if two of the highest tier mechs fist bump each other, they can create a singularity that pulls all mass in the universe and recreates the big bang. Those mechs survive a point blank big bang that they themselves forced into reality.

  54. Sauroposeidon January 27, 2015 at 7:41 am -      #54

    ” Unless something there has resistance to having its universe get eaten”

    You might have missed the part where they can erase things from existence, destroy universes, and create universes. I think they even accidentally did it once, if I recall.

  55. Malenfant January 27, 2015 at 11:35 am -      #55

    “Eating time out from under a universe doesn’t imply universe level durability..”

    They’re made out of superstrings and other exotic particles, they exist in the time vortex (Dark Heart). Also the War TARDIS was tanking their attacks later on IIRC, I’ll find the quote.

    “Ideon destroys and makes universes. It has been taken down twice by decided non-universe level opponents. Once in its past universe and once in the Gundam universe. Just an example of how your scaling is faulty. All we can see is that the Tardis can strike on multiple dimensions at once, presumably, and even this is a guess.”

    What were the circumstances of the instances? Because on its own that just implies inconsistency.

    “I don’t think you know very much about the TTGL verse. Their highest tier mechs can resist all sorts of neigh omni reality warping through sheer willpower.”

    Nigh omni reality warping neither makes sense nor tells me anything.

    “They also use galaxy clusters as battlefields.”

    The Time Lords take apart entire galaxies solely for the purpose of boosting their infrastructure (during wartime with the Daleks)

    “They literally stand on groups of thousands of galaxies. And if two of the highest tier mechs fist bump each other, they can create a singularity that pulls all mass in the universe and recreates the big bang. Those mechs survive a point blank big bang that they themselves forced into reality.”

    Wait, what? From what I saw of that “infinite Big Bang attack”, it was absolutely nothing like the Big Bang, and as such shouldn’t be classified as one for a feat but anyways, whatever. Great, they can survive a event as energetic as the Big Bang, 10^72J. So can a high end TARDIS, but better yet, Swimmers, who make Chronovores look under powered:

    “‘Agreed,’ said One, and paused. ‘Did you know that there are things that swim in the void between universes, in the void that is neither time nor space, the void in which bounded universes like our own exist like froth on a dark sea? He showed me them. They are vast and terrible. Implacable and ancient. And they are very, very large. Against the oldest of them, universes burst and vanish like bubbles striking a whale. They are the leviathans of space and time. Creatures that make common-or-garden Chronovores look like tadpoles in a stagnant pond.'”-Taking of Planet 5

    Then there’s Great Old Ones (semi-Lovecraft), who speak a language that can rewrite entire universes with a paragraph, among other things:

    “Quantum mnemonics, the dark science of an earlier race of Time Lords, made block transfer computation seem like a conjuring trick. With just a few words, a practitioner of their great art could grasp the basic nature of reality around the throat and shake it into a new configuration. A bon mot of quantum mnemonics could bring about a premature death, or a run of good luck. A sentence could transform a planet’s history and destiny, changing a world of barbaric war into an elysium. And a carefully constructed paragraph could rewrite the entire universe. Or destroy it utterly.”-Millenial Rites

    Without Demonbane, SRW is simply outclassed.

  56. pimpmage January 27, 2015 at 12:16 pm -      #56

    “Wait, what? From what I saw of that “infinite Big Bang attack”, it was absolutely nothing like the Big Bang, and as such shouldn’t be classified as one for a feat but anyways, whatever. Great, they can survive a event as energetic as the Big Bang, 10^72J. So can a high end TARDIS, but better yet, Swimmers, who make Chronovores look under powered:”

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M3AFC8AXb0
    Turn off annotations and start at 1:40. You can see they are standing on a galactic cluster. That can be thousands of galaxies beneath their feet. At 2:16 onward, while they are about to connect their drills, you can see dozens of galaxies flying by the purple drill. Pause at 2:42 and you can see them creating a larger drill thats probably a few hundred times their own size. Singularity starts at 3:00. They sucked in the entire universe including all the light that existed.

  57. Friendlysociopath January 27, 2015 at 12:49 pm -      #57

    Boy, watching that show while being mentally adjusted in some fashion must be a blast.

  58. Malenfant January 27, 2015 at 1:36 pm -      #58

    “www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M3AFC8AXb0
    Turn off annotations and start at 1:40. You can see they are standing on a galactic cluster. That can be thousands of galaxies beneath their feet.”

    Why does it have to be a galactic cluster instead of a galaxy?

    “At 2:16 onward, while they are about to connect their drills, you can see dozens of galaxies flying by the purple drill.”

    Great. So a fraction of the destructive capability of mid-tier cosmics in Who. Not entirely impressive.

    “Pause at 2:42 and you can see them creating a larger drill thats probably a few hundred times their own size. Singularity starts at 3:00. They sucked in the entire universe including all the light that existed.”

    Why’s that a Big Bang? The narrative doesn’t say it is, in fact it tells us nothing about what’s going on. The few visuals we have confirm that we’re not seeing a Big Bang under the scientific definition of the word, in fact.

  59. pimpmage January 27, 2015 at 1:42 pm -      #59

    “Why does it have to be a galactic cluster instead of a galaxy?”

    Because these guys are literally standing in and brushing aside galaxies 1/1000 their size. And if the thing they are standing on is not a galaxy cluster, what would it be then? It clearly seems to be like 10x their height wide. The only thing it could possibly be is either a cluster or supercluster.

    “Great. So a fraction of the destructive capability of mid-tier cosmics in Who. Not entirely impressive.”

    I was showing scale not destructive capability. Can anyone in the WHO verse even see such a massive mech move and respond it it? Given how light works, they wouldn’t even know such mechs exist anywhere for millions of years till the light catches up.

    “Why’s that a Big Bang? The narrative doesn’t say it is, in fact it tells us nothing about what’s going on. The few visuals we have confirm that we’re not seeing a Big Bang under the scientific definition of the word, in fact.”

    My bad choice of wording. It sucked in the entire universe in like 10 seconds. Including all light. Such an even could lead to a big bang, but i guess the author decided that it just spat everything back out at the end again.

  60. Sauroposeidon January 27, 2015 at 1:52 pm -      #60

    “They’re made out of superstrings and other exotic particles, they exist in the time vortex (Dark Heart). Also the War TARDIS was tanking their attacks later on IIRC, I’ll find the quote.”

    It’d be useful..or I hope it would be. The last chronovore quote you gave us made zero sense, nor did the conclusions you jumped to over it.

  61. The Imperator January 27, 2015 at 2:15 pm -      #61

    What’s the question on the Chronovore quote? A being handwaved into existence a separate universe built around a monkey paw happily ever after scenario for each person. Chronovores got loose and began to eat all those universes.

  62. Sauroposeidon January 27, 2015 at 2:20 pm -      #62

    “What were the circumstances of the instances? Because on its own that just implies inconsistency.”

    No it’s not. How is that inconsistent? If I break a brick with my fist, it doesn’t mean you need brick breaking force to knock me out. A simple chemical on a cloth and a quick hand will do just fine, even, applying the absolute minimum force.

    “The Time Lords take apart entire galaxies solely for the purpose of boosting their infrastructure (during wartime with the Daleks)”

    Well, I suppose it’s worth asking how fast they do it, since we see galaxy destroying happen in mere seconds for many SRW mecha. Although I think we’re overlooking the fact that weaker forces have been major movers and changers in both SRW and Doctor Who. Kaiser Ephes seems to casually spit big bangs at his opponents, but Gundams and Veritechs were important aspects of the war against Balmarr.

    “it was absolutely nothing like the Big Bang’

    It was just an accelerated,directed big bang, for the purpose of putting more energy in to their target. The Anti-Spirals were kind of cheating.

    “Then there’s Great Old Ones (semi-Lovecraft), who speak a language that can rewrite entire universes with a paragraph, among other things:”

    With the scale of probability altering, dimension breaking, universe ending nonsense being thrown around on both sides.. that doesn’t seem to be very useful.

    “Swimmers”

    Remind me a lot of the Einst..except that your quote shows nothing of their combat prowess. They exist outside of time and space. For them a universe has no meaning to them. They aren’t actually large, because they are creatures which have no dimensions, as there is no space. What do they do when they actually go to war? Or are they just animals? If they’re intelligent they might be a threat.. otherwise they’re just a tool for others to manipulate.

  63. Malenfant January 27, 2015 at 2:55 pm -      #63

    “Because these guys are literally standing in and brushing aside galaxies 1/1000 their size. And if the thing they are standing on is not a galaxy cluster, what would it be then?”

    A normal galaxy? You’re reasoning and grammar here make no sense.

    I” was showing scale not destructive capability. Can anyone in the WHO verse even see such a massive mech move and respond it it?”

    Swimmers are ~larger~ than universes. Time Lords have dealt with worse threats, such as Omega threatening to drain the universe of energy.

    “Given how light works, they wouldn’t even know such mechs exist anywhere for millions of years till the light catches up.”

    The Time Lords decide how light works. Literally. They created the modern laws of physics.

    “No it’s not. How is that inconsistent? If I break a brick with my fist, it doesn’t mean you need brick breaking force to knock me out. A simple chemical on a cloth and a quick hand will do just fine, even, applying the absolute minimum force.”

    I can’t tell you anything about them if I don’t know what they are.

    “Well, I suppose it’s worth asking how fast they do it, since we see galaxy destroying happen in mere seconds for many SRW mecha. Although I think we’re overlooking the fact that weaker forces have been major movers and changers in both SRW and Doctor Who. Kaiser Ephes seems to casually spit big bangs at his opponents, but Gundams and Veritechs were important aspects of the war against Balmarr.”

    Undefined time zone, but it’s a low end feat for the Time Lords besides. Weaker forces in Doctor Who have never effected the real high end factions.

    “It was just an accelerated,directed big bang, for the purpose of putting more energy in to their target. The Anti-Spirals were kind of cheating.”

    How was it a Big Bang? It was a fucking explosion, which by default removes the notion that it’s a scientific Big Bang, so what did it do? What was the yield?

    “With the scale of probability altering, dimension breaking, universe ending nonsense being thrown around on both sides.. that doesn’t seem to be very useful.”

    Probability altering, universe destroying? The memovore eats these concepts. What now?

    Of course, referring to the SRW side. Higher end cosmics from the Whoniverse won’t be affected.

    “Remind me a lot of the Einst..except that your quote shows nothing of their combat prowess. They exist outside of time and space. For them a universe has no meaning to them. They aren’t actually large, because they are creatures which have no dimensions, as there is no space. What do they do when they actually go to war? Or are they just animals? If they’re intelligent they might be a threat.. otherwise they’re just a tool for others to manipulate.”

    They’re natural predators who basically hunger for universes:

    “‘The Swimmers come and go,’ he said. ‘The
    Swimmers eat.’
    The child’s eyes had been large with wonder, fear and darkness.
    ‘What do they eat, Master?’
    The hermit shuddered. ‘Everythings,’ he whispered. ‘They eat Everythings.
    I will show you universes in a bowl of gruel.’”-Taking of Planet 5

  64. Sauroposeidon January 27, 2015 at 3:51 pm -      #64

    “Undefined time zone, but it’s a low end feat for the Time Lords besides. Weaker forces in Doctor Who have never effected the real high end factions.”

    Except for all those times humans have.

    “How was it a Big Bang? It was a fucking explosion, which by default removes the notion that it’s a scientific Big Bang, so what did it do? What was the yield?”

    He hit them with a singularity, so, presumably, infinite.

    “Probability altering, universe destroying? The memovore eats these concepts. What now?”

    Eating thoughts is a nice trick and all.. but with out quotes.. although, again, these have so far been so nonsensical that virtually everything posted so far is useless.

    “They’re natural predators who basically hunger for universes:”

    So Dr.Who essentially caps out at universe busting? Did they ever fight a swimmer? How are they even touching universes with no space to define getting to them? This is sort of the same problem I have with a certain incarnation of demonbane. People try to write powerful stuff.. but don’t seem to understand anything about what they’re writing.

    Most importantly.. what stops the Einst from taking them over?

  65. Aelfinn January 27, 2015 at 5:39 pm -      #65

    All I got out of those quotes from the show’s makers is that there is no canon, and that it can be whatever the Hell we want to be.

    …what if I wrote fan-fiction?
    =
    “As to Time Lord “plot shields,” they can see all of time and space (Parting of the Ways/Timewyrm novels) and subtly manipulate probability around them (like John Constantine).”

    I say they can’t. Not only because I define my canon that way, but also because that violates every single time the Doctor has been confused or surprised.

  66. Jake_Uzumaki January 27, 2015 at 5:43 pm -      #66

    Depends on if you get it published or not.

    off topic but would it be possible to calculate cutting the moon in half?

  67. The Imperator January 27, 2015 at 5:47 pm -      #67

    @Aelfinn: Which is why I said in my post that generally I see it on the internet that officially licensed products are what is used from battles with Doctor Who factions.

    If you want to believe that, that’s fine, but it doesn’t change licensed products, which are as close to “canon” as you can get to Doctor Who.

    Plus Sauroposeidon said that EU+TV would be used, so it’s a moot point.


    @Sauroposeidon: “So Dr.Who essentially caps out at universe busting? Did they ever fight a swimmer? How are they even touching universes with no space to define getting to them? This is sort of the same problem I have with a certain incarnation of demonbane. People try to write powerful stuff.. but don’t seem to understand anything about what they’re writing.”

    The Void is the nothingness between universes. It has no spatial dimensions, but usually is described using such terms to make analogies possible. Swimmers are creatures that “swim” through said nothingness, being universes where everything within them has evolved to end up being part of a single “lifeform.” The Time Lords, usually the POV characters due to the Doctor, haven’t really studied them, because when a Swimmer “collides” with another universe, said universe collapses. They tend to collide with whatever they noticed, at least that’s what cursory Time Lord studies showed, so the Time Lords (and Celestis) did what they could to not be noticeable to the Swimmers.


    How do Super Robot Wars factions do against a being that is “made” out of empty space and subsists by eating ideas?

  68. Epicazeroth January 27, 2015 at 5:51 pm -      #68

    @Sauro: “Except for all those times humans have.”
    What? When was this?

    “these have so far been so nonsensical”
    The discussion is “multiverse-sized beings that eat realities” vs “giant Space Magic robots that punch Big Crunches into existence”. Of course it’s nonsensical.

    “How are they even touching universes with no space to define getting to them?”
    It said they “swim” through the void.
    ===
    @Aelfinn: “that violates every single time the Doctor has been confused or surprised.”
    He doesn’t see everything that happens. He sees Time itself. As in, he can tell things about the nature of Time – such as what is or isn’t a Fixed Point, etc.

  69. Sauroposeidon January 27, 2015 at 6:14 pm -      #69

    “Of course it’s nonsensical”

    Indeed.

    “It said they “swim” through the void.”

    There’s nothing for them to swim through. No where for them to go. No way for them to touch. Everything about them is self contradictory.

  70. Sauroposeidon January 27, 2015 at 7:37 pm -      #70

    “What? When was this?”

    If it weren’t for humans, Daleks would be in control at this point.The Doctor would be dead. Satan would be loose. Various other races would be running rampant unopposed, The Master would never have been defeated and the Cybermen wouldn’t exist. Just to name a few examples.

  71. Friendlysociopath January 27, 2015 at 7:53 pm -      #71

    How do Super Robot Wars factions do against a being that is “made” out of empty space and subsists by eating ideas?

    If they eat ideas how would the person talking know what was eaten?

    Also, Time Lords are really not absolute- or else there wouldn’t be half a million things going wrong over all of creation.

    I don’t see how just anyone can make canon contributions to a copyrighted character, but whatever it was allowed.

  72. Aelfinn January 27, 2015 at 9:00 pm -      #72

    “Plus Sauroposeidon said that EU+TV would be used”

    Fair enough.
    =
    “He doesn’t see everything that happens. He sees Time itself.”

    Fair enough as well.
    =
    “off topic but would it be possible to calculate cutting the moon in half?”

    It’d be difficult. There’s two ways I could imagine it, though:

    If done with something like a sword, such that the two halves separate: you could calculate the gravitational attraction each half had to the other and calculate the distance the two halves were separated by. By multiplying the two, you would get the energy requirement to separate them.

    If done with an energy blast, such that some kind of central disc is vaporized (or melted) and removed: you’d have to calculate the amount of mass this is done to, the specific heat of the material, the heat of vaporization/fusion, and the melting point or boiling point. Using some multiplication and division, you could figure out the energy required to do that.

  73. Jake_Uzumaki January 27, 2015 at 9:11 pm -      #73

    @Aelfinn
    Mind taking a look at post 14 factpile.com/10413-darth-revan-vs-naruto-uzumaki/ here and seeing if you could take a crack at it? I think its sort of a mix of the two but not sure.

  74. Aelfinn January 27, 2015 at 9:37 pm -      #74

    ” seeing if you could take a crack at it? I think its sort of a mix of the two but not sure.”

    Hmm, may be a bit difficult to get a “width” on that, but it’s made me think of a different way to calc it: assume it accelerates a disc’s worth of material to escape velocity. It was acting as if he was using a magical high-pressure water gun, so the calc certainly wouldn’t be perfect, but it WOULD explain all the dust it kicked up while also explaining the clear removal of mass. It didn’t seem like he was heating it up, and it didn’t quite act like a sword, so that may be the best option.
    =
    Moon equals 3346 kg/m^3
    Moon’s radius = 1737400 meters
    Assumed width (most variable, and could be argued much larger) = 2 meters
    Mass of moon removed = 6.346*10^16 kg
    Escape velocity of the moon = 2380 m/s

    E = 1/2(6.346*10^16)(2380)^2
    E = 1.80 * 10^23 Joules
    E = about 43 Teratons

    =
    Relatively rough, but that’s probably one way of doing it.

  75. Jake_Uzumaki January 27, 2015 at 9:59 pm -      #75

    Well it was formed from Truth Seeking Balls so it may have been out right atomizing the parts of the moon it hit. I have seen another calc on it but it was basing the output on how far the halves of the moon seperated in the video based on overcoming the gravity holding the moon together to get the moving apart seen (granted it was a different video www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tyuAk1DX04&feature=youtu.be&t=1m42s ) but I didn’t know if that was an accurate way to do it so I wanted to get a second opinion.

    Still that’s crazy firepower, and makes Naruto tanking and later overpowering it impressive. Thanks for the calc :)

  76. Aelfinn January 27, 2015 at 10:03 pm -      #76

    “it was basing the output on how far the halves of the moon seperated in the video based on overcoming the gravity holding the moon together”

    That’s certainly one way of doing it, but honestly, the two halves of the moon should have come back together once the magic blast was finished. How far apart they drift is effectively un-calc-able because it just shouldn’t have acted that way.
    =
    “Thanks for the calc”

    No problem. They’re my specialty.

  77. The Imperator January 27, 2015 at 11:22 pm -      #77

    @FriendlySociopath: Narrator explained it, after a character said what it could do. Omniscient narrator with a 3P POV.

  78. Friendlysociopath January 27, 2015 at 11:41 pm -      #78

    Narrator explained it, after a character said what it could do. Omniscient narrator with a 3P POV.

    Could I get the actual quotes for that?
    If they actually destroyed a concept nobody would know said concept was gone.

    This is one reaosn why I hate high-tier sci-fi, after a point it just gets stupid and people make shit up to sound impressive.

  79. The Imperator January 28, 2015 at 12:20 am -      #79

    @FriendlySociopath: Here are a bunch of quotes on it, this site has some awkward formatting, so I’ll link to them: forums.spacebattles.com/threads/doctor-who-feats-and-source-thread.298198/#post-14422735


    some highlight quotes: “Finally, the local region of conceptual space shattered and drained,
    the predator withdrew temporally bloated. In its wake, a billion souls
    lay on ground whose textures they could no longer understand, unable
    to think, unable to feel, unable to hear their own screaming madness
    as anything more meaningful than white noise.”

    “On New Quintesson, a typical world of the seventh epoch, towards
    the twilight of the Mid-Evening Cultures, in one of its towers of brass
    and molecularly reinforced jet, two elderly poets – drinking companions
    over a dozen years – felt their way towards a sudden feeling of
    unimaginable loss.
    ‘I worked for hours on this poem, but I could not get it into the form
    I sought to begin with. It is possible I worked too long on it, just got
    rusty. I would welcome your thoughts. Does something seem wrong
    to you, Eldor?’
    Eldor considered. ‘You know, it does – and not just your poem. For
    some time I’ve been struck by the sense of some void, some impossible
    pit in my own writing, in the use of our speech itself. The words will
    not flow how I desire, pomposity and circumlocution rise, something
    missing wounds us.’
    ‘Yes, it’s like the impossibility of using some words, but I find it
    is impossible to think of the words I do not use nor to think of the
    common thing that links them.’
    ‘This reminds me of the puzzle: if everything we use to judge size
    were shrinking, how would we know?’
    ‘Just so if our tongue were being whittled down, let us propose letter
    by letter for this discourse. Could we tell?’
    ‘Of course we could. If we were losing the use of speech, letter by
    letter, we could detect it in moments.’
    ‘How?’
    ‘Simply by reciting the letters in sequence.’
    ‘B, C, D, E, et cetera?’
    ‘Yes, you see how obvious the test would be.’
    ‘I suppose so, but would we notice if one were missing?’
    ‘Of course we would – C, D, E, F, G – we get it drummed into us
    when we first study. The sequence is grounded in us – we could not
    help perceive it if it differed.
    ‘F, G, H, I, J. Right, so I must honour your thoughts on this. I know
    now I must just wind my thoughts too tight working long hours in
    high rooms. Nothing is lost to us. Tomorrow this long foolish thought
    will hit us with its folly.’
    ‘I trust so.’
    But before tomorrow their tongues were dumb, for ever.”


    -

  80. Sauroposeidon January 28, 2015 at 12:32 am -      #80

    So.. what happens when the Anti-Spirals drop their labyrinth on the thought eaters?

    How do they deal with characters who alter space based on how they perceive it to be?

    What happens when probabilities are altered that they in fact end up remembering the ideas? Does it get fed for forever? Does it get over fed and harmed? Does it starve as the concept remains present?

    What happens to it when the very dimension it lurks in is broken?

    Like the Chronovores, it seems too vague to be a useful component for Dr.Who’s side to use.

  81. The Ultimate Overlord January 28, 2015 at 5:05 am -      #81

    Can you guys remind me what the transduction barrier does?
    Still betting on fusion followed by speech followed by awesome finishing move. The reason I believe this a possible scenerio is that lots of times in TTGL Simon would hijack or fuse machines together, one of the main aspects of Gurren Lagann. Plus evidence support that fusing for them is not the sum of the all the mechs power, but instead multiplying it to higher levels.

  82. pimpmage January 28, 2015 at 7:37 am -      #82

    “Plus evidence support that fusing for them is not the sum of the all the mechs power, but instead multiplying it to higher levels.”

    It already absorbed a big bang and turned it into more mass for TTGL final form. That thing must already have infinite mass. You cant go higher than infinite, unless, you know, infinite+1.

  83. Sauroposeidon January 28, 2015 at 7:38 am -      #83

    fyeahgallifreyanculture.tumblr.com/post/22993776111/gallifreyan-technology-the-transduction-barrier

    It’s a defense which is very good at failing.

  84. Friendlysociopath January 28, 2015 at 8:42 am -      #84

    Boy, look at all those multiversal beings of unlimited power- and look how they seem to be defeated all the time. This isn’t inconsistent at all.

    Not to mention there’s mention of at least 18 different universes in play, plus different timelines, for Dr. Who. How many universes does SRW have?

  85. The Ultimate Overlord January 28, 2015 at 8:45 am -      #85

    “Not to mention there’s mention of at least 18 different universes in play, plus different timelines, for Dr. Who. How many universes does SRW have?”
    I believe it is for series they have it is another universe.

  86. The Imperator January 28, 2015 at 10:17 am -      #86

    @Sauroposeidon: Have the Anti-Spirals shown the capability to isolate empty space and teleport it somewhere else? The Memeovore is also acausal, it was able to affect things before it escaped the prison that the Time Lords had made for it, and the only reason it didn’t ROFLstomp the setting was because it was too hungry to think straight.


    @Ultimate Overlord: The Transduction Barrier is not something that is very good at failing. It’s failed all of once, that I can recall. In Invasion of Time, the Doctor purposefully took it down; in Apocalypse Element, a CIA agent purposefully let the Daleks into it; etc.


    @FriendlySociopath: Are you referring to beings in Doctor Who? Because most of them were defeated in ways that can’t really be replicated here. The Crystal Guardian/Celestial Toymaker isn’t going to choose to play a board game with the SRW side. The SRW doesn’t know that the only way to stop a Lamprey is to burn up universes as energy weapons (took several hundred to stun it enough to pt it back in its prison IIRC). The Grace were limiting themselves so as to not damage the universe they were in, as were the Old Ones/Elder Gods that we see in the show.




    What defense does the SRW side have against creatures made of language. Nobody No One gets power anytime someone says “nobody can do X,” “no one can X,” etc. He was able to finger snap the sun away, and permanently changed the Latin Alphabet (he states he collided with it and it lost a letter or two, permanently). I realize the sun snapping is not impressive her, but say he gets told “no one can just kill X,” where X is a mech pilot, then he goes over there and kills him by just deleting him from existence.

  87. Yatsukahagi January 28, 2015 at 10:32 am -      #87

    “Boy, watching that show while being mentally adjusted in some fashion must be a blast.”

    I’ll have to regrettably defend TTGL here. The show was kinda fun, but god damn it’s created a hell of a lot of insufferable losers. It started off as one of those Saturday morning cartoons that’s most notable aspect was that it kept outdoing itself on an exponential curve of “SPIRAL POWER!”. Part of the problem with TTGL in retrospect (and perhaps one reason why it was so popular) is that it doesn’t actually reward hard work or effort or cleverness or anything else that its supporters usually profess to like. It just rewards desire. The heroes get things by wanting them really badly, not by having to deal with the ways to achieve things.

    Basically, the characters are all gung-ho idiots, who only won because their robot happened to be powered by gung-ho idiocy.

  88. pimpmage January 28, 2015 at 10:48 am -      #88

    I think he meant watching the show while not being totally sober in one form or another. Not being mentally handicapped. I liked the show because the animation quality was absolutely top tier all throughout the series. The comedy was amazing too.

  89. Sauroposeidon January 28, 2015 at 4:14 pm -      #89

    “Have the Anti-Spirals shown the capability to isolate empty space and teleport it somewhere else?”

    You can in theory teleport empty space as easily as occupied space. It’s just the moving of space-time itself. That’s how teleporting usually works. Folding space.

    That being said, that’s now how their labyrinth works. It’s mental.

    “How many universes does SRW have?”

  90. The Imperator January 28, 2015 at 10:48 pm -      #90

    No, as in can they find a specific part of empty space that has no energy within it, and figure out where it’s mind is (which doesn’t run on any kind of physical or energy substrate). Empty space that can spread out to exist in the past and future acausally.

  91. Sauroposeidon January 29, 2015 at 12:21 am -      #91

    “No, as in can they find a specific part of empty space that has no energy within it, and figure out where it’s mind is (which doesn’t run on any kind of physical or energy substrate). Empty space that can spread out to exist in the past and future acausally.”

    As I recall, Anti-Spiral mooks tried hiding in time. I have to get going to bed, but suffice it to say, Team Dai Gurren just shot across all of near time and space to hit them with probability altering missiles or some kind.

    If it exists, there is something tangible to it. An abstract thing is incapable of interacting with the real. If it can have a physical effect on you, then it is interacting in a physical way with you. The door logically swings both ways. I just see the labyrinth permanently trapping this thing. It either would never know or be happy to be where it is, because that’s how the labyrinth works. It gives you what you want.

    With out knowing how the Dr.Who characters were able to interact with it, there’s not enough information to act on it. It sounds to just be another nonsensical non-issue like the chronovores which is only dangerous because the plot allows it to be.

  92. The Imperator January 29, 2015 at 12:44 am -      #92

    They didn’t interact with it, much. They used their TARDISes to detect it (TARDISes can detect memetic lifeforms and can detect where ideas are being erased from reality IIRC) and they waited till it was entirely inside the thought dimension attached to the main universes. Then the TARDISes literally cut off part of the universe from the rest of it, sending the Memeovore into the void.

    It was stated by the narrator that it only went all into one place because it was starving, otherwise it would have spread across all of time at once.

  93. Sauroposeidon January 29, 2015 at 7:39 pm -      #93

    And how did the TARDIS detect the memeovore?

  94. The Imperator January 29, 2015 at 7:48 pm -      #94

    IDK, been a while since I read it. All I remember is that Time Lords, and TARDISes, can detect living ideas.

    Theoretically if the Memeovore gets trapped somehow in a realm of thought, won’t it just eat the realm, as it is acausal and can eat it from the very beginning?

  95. Sauroposeidon January 29, 2015 at 8:11 pm -      #95

    It generates an infinite number of realities for the target. Each time it eats one a new one would generate itself. It’s created from the very target’s own thoughts and desires, so the memeovore might effectively eat itself tail first.

  96. pimpmage January 29, 2015 at 8:46 pm -      #96

    That post #79 has some really cool and creative writing. Seriously cool. Very well written.

  97. The Imperator January 29, 2015 at 8:46 pm -      #97

    Simon and co. were able to teleport out, though, so escaping is not outside the realm of possibility.

  98. Sauroposeidon January 29, 2015 at 9:03 pm -      #98

    “Simon and co. were able to teleport out, though, so escaping is not outside the realm of possibility.”

    Does the memeovore possess spiral power or a rough equivalent to hotblood itself out of the labyrinth?

  99. Sauroposeidon January 29, 2015 at 9:06 pm -      #99

    Just as an aside.. While I don’t think The Doctor would be very adept at using Spiral Energy, I think he’d marvel at it if exposed to it. Namely because I think a lot of his companions, especially Donna, would be hotblooded enough to wield it masterfully. Maybe someone should fanfic a crossover.

    Also, does anyone know if the anti-spirals ever actually used their labyrinth in the game? How did the team deal with it if they did?

  100. Fezzes February 6, 2015 at 8:03 am -      #100

    “I don’t think you know very much about the TTGL universe”

    I have to admit I don’t. It’s just that, from what I’ve seen, there isn’t much in the way of defences against having your universe eaten that SRW seems to have. Again, this is from what I’ve seen.

    I wholeheartedly agree with the notion that high-end sci-fi is an utter clusterfuck of ‘casually eating realities’ and ‘hiding in timelines’ and ‘using the big bang as a thrown weapon’. I think of battles between them as like a wiki editing war. Both sides can change reality or, for the purposes of the comparison, change what the wiki says. Like that but ‘editing the wiki’ is now editing reality so that X doesn’t exist. Its either that or some sort of reality warping quickdraw. Either way, the sources are too vague to know shit about capabilities, and thus, who wins.

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