A Fight to Change the World

A Fight to Change the World

Suggested by Kevin Friend

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In a variant universe, the barriers between realities have broken due to a ritual that took place to shatter space and time.
The Crown Prince of Crime, Joker, has capitalized on this phenomenon to recruit partners in his attempt to take over all of creation. He arrived on Marvel Earth with his new-found allies and forced Tony Stark to flee from his Stark Tower in the company of the 11th Doctor- who was alerted to the weakening of the universal barriers when Master Chief accidentally rammed into the TARDIS while floating in space. The Joker and his allies enacted a powerful Logic Barrier around Marvel Earth, preventing the Doctor’s Team from returning until the final battle and stopping them from seeing any other point of time for Marvel Earth. Joker plots to destroy the entirely of the multiverse by initiating a ritual involving a sacrifice of a young female Goddess atop Stark Tower. The mere possibility of this ritual is what started the fracturing of reality.

Tony, Chief, and the Doctor traveled through time and space, dimensions and universes, reality and dreams, to recruit allies to stand against the Joker’s new army. Shenanigans ensued and many worlds were destroyed by the Joker’s forces and some valiant heroes were slain in support of the cause to bring the combined might of the Doctor’s forces back to Marvel Earth for the Final Battle. The Logic Barrier is one of a kind, it works by mind-rape, you know you cannot break through it or circumvent it- and so you cannot do so. Using the illogical Valvatorez, the 11th Doctor has formed a special counter to circumvent the Logic Barrier, christened by Valvatorez as “The Sardine of Golden Promises and Camaraderie”. The TARDIS emits this anti-logic barrier which allows the Doctor’s forces to remain on Marvel Earth in spite of the Logic Barrier. However, the TARDIS must dedicate the entirety of its power to this task and cannot be used in any fashion after landing. The TARDIS must be defended or else the Doctor’s forces will be rubber-banded back out of Marvel Earth’s universe and into the entropy that the rest of Creation has become. The TARDIS is neither invisible nor protected by barriers, it is for all intents and purposes, helpless. It’s also located near Madison Square Garden.

This scenario is going to be broken into 3 parts and 2 Teams, each part fights it’s opposite- The Doctor’s Offense is attacking the Joker’s Defense and vice versa, the Ultima battle is between the strongest fighters of each team. The ritual and Logic Barrier prevent any dimension jumping or time manipulation. Whichever team wins the most battles will win the scenario:
Teams: Team Doctor and Team Joker
Parts: Offensive, Defensive, Ultima

Ultima battle: Valvatorez (Disgaea) vs Lord Bills (DBZ)
Both are fighting around and through the city, most likely eventually ascending into space.

Team Doctor Offense- Their goal is to assault Stark Tower and save the Goddess. The Goddess is currently helpless so destroying the Tower is only an option if she will survive the destruction. The Joker has destroyed all of Tony’s suits.
Members:
11th Doctor (Dr. Who), Master Chief (Halo), Iron Man (Avengers 1 suit) [Riding in Machine-Gun Warthog]
Cloud Strife (FF7) and Sora (KH) [Riding Fenrir, Cloud has no materia]
Date Masamune (Sengoku Basara) and Misaka Mikoto (Scientific Railgun) [Riding Date’s Horse]
Team Joker Defense- Their goal is to protect the tower and ensure the Goddess is sacrificed by Joker, Joker is free to fight and is equipped with the best weapons he can find lying around Tony’s tower as of Avengers and that Joker can learn how to use.
Members:
Joker [Has summoned Bahamut SIN for his mount]
Boba Fett and Darth Vader (Star Wars EU)
Haruko (FLCL)
Spiderman and Link (Adult Link timeline) [Spiderman is mind-controlled, we’ll never know why Link is here as he’s mute]

Team Doctor Defense- Their goal is to protect the TARDIS to keep the anti-Logic Barrier from expelling them from Marvel Earth.
Members:
Seras Victoria (Hellsing)
Ryner Lute (Legend of Legendary Heroes)
Samus Aran (Metroid)
Ruby Rose (RWBY)
Maka Albarn + Soul (Soul Eater)
Edward Elric (Fullmetal Alchemist)

Team Joker Offense- Their goal is to destroy the TARDIS in order to dispel the Doctor’s Team from Marvel Earth.
Members:
Ganondorf (Adult Link timeline)
Mundus (Devil May Cry)
Heihachi (Tekken)
The Ultramarines
and the Brotherhood of Light forces from Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2

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255 Comments on "A Fight to Change the World"

  1. Ragnorke December 26, 2014 at 7:39 am -      #101

    “It says laser.”

    Mate… Use timestamps.
    I’m not watching the whole video searching for the laser.

  2. The Terror December 26, 2014 at 7:41 am -      #102

    “Eh, Thor is FTL yet he gets hit by people like Hulk.
    Superman is billions of times faster than light yet he gets hit by slower people.
    Flash… Gets hit… The end.
    Shit happens, but bad feats aren’t used as a way to determine a characters maximum capabilities. Good feats are the ones that show us their true potential.”
    Lets see. His foes are Kraven, Electro, Black Cat, Goblin, That one guy who has some connection to Silk, Venom, and Carnage. None of them have light speed attacks Spiderman has dodged.

  3. The Terror December 26, 2014 at 7:43 am -      #103

    “Mate… Use timestamps.
    I’m not watching the whole video searching for the laser.”
    I don’t know how to, but its at 12:10.

  4. pimpmage December 26, 2014 at 7:44 am -      #104

    “I really don’t give half a shit if you believe it or not, it isn’t my place to prove their canon. It’s your place to prove they aren’t canon.”

    I think you got that backwards. You never even posted the source for those scans. Why the fuck should I prove their validity? I have yet to see what the source was, it could be any of spider man’s various non canon incarnations for all ANYONE knows. So would you do everyone a favor and back up your own shit. Pretty please?

    “I don’t know how to”

    Just post times with every video link. People pull that crap all the time and it gets old.

  5. Ragnorke December 26, 2014 at 7:46 am -      #105

    “Lets see. His foes are Kraven, Electro, Black Cat, Goblin, That one guy who has some connection to Silk, Venom, and Carnage. None of them have light speed attacks Spiderman has dodged.”

    Electro uses electricity, which can travel at 1/3rd the speed of light casually.

    Venom has precognition, speed, reaction time to compete with spiderman.
    Same with carnage.

    Black cat is someone peter likes to have one night stands with.

    All of his other “cartoon” villains are people spiderman holds back against, and could still beat then after they all teamed up against him.

    Spiderman usually holds back. That’s a fact.
    His punch could turn a human into a pile of goo if he wanted.
    But how often do you see that happen?

  6. Ragnorke December 26, 2014 at 7:52 am -      #106

    “I think you got that backwards. You never even posted the source for those scans. Why the fuck should I prove their validity? I have yet to see what the source was, it could be any of spider man’s various non canon incarnations for all ANYONE knows. So would you do everyone a favor and back up your own shit. Pretty please?”

    They’re all from marvel 616 comics.
    Don’t even try asking for the exact issues,because you know damn well that’s almost impossible.
    Amazing spiderman comics, or the Avenger Now comics.

    All the noncanon spiderman incarnations you mentioned are either tv shows, games, or mini newspaper articles.
    Do the scans I posted look like any of those?

    Also, alot of the different “incarnations” are just spiderman in different story lines.
    Still 616.
    Still the same time line.
    Still perfectly canon.
    Still the same character.

    “ultimate spiderman” is probably the only other regularly printed noncanon alternate universe comic series.
    But it has a distinct artstlye, and none of my scans originate from ther

  7. pimpmage December 26, 2014 at 7:59 am -      #107

    “Don’t even try asking for the exact issues,because you know damn well that’s almost impossible.”

    Oh? Is that so? I should know? How should I know that? It sounds like you are trying to get out of sourcing your feats.

    “All the noncanon spiderman incarnations you mentioned are either tv shows, games, or mini newspaper articles.”

    Doesn’t sound like it to me. I think you need to prove that your feats don’t exist in any alternate timelines or incarnations. For you to post scans that are decades old and tell us they are canon is silly. I know how comic books writers get hard ons with alternate timelines and universes. Call me crazy, but I don’t think the most current spider man issues are the exact same guy in the exact same time in the exact same universe as the older stuff you posted.

    “Also, alot of the different “incarnations” are just spiderman in different story lines.
    Still 616.
    Still the same time line.
    Still perfectly canon.
    Still the same character.”

    I think this needs to be proved.

  8. Ragnorke December 26, 2014 at 8:04 am -      #108

    “Call me crazy, but I don’t think the most current spider man issues are the exact same guy in the exact same time in the exact same universe.”

    It isn’t the exact same time obviously. Marvel 616 has a timeline you know.

    Other than that, yea you’re crazy. Since it is the same character.

    “I think this needs to be proved.”

    I named the comic series.
    Amazing spiderman.
    And Avengers Now.
    That’s called sourcing.

  9. Numinous One December 26, 2014 at 8:08 am -      #109

    Easiest way to solve this I believe, who is the current incarnation of Spiderman? Saves bickering back and forth. I’d provide it myself but everytime I try to check I get some stupid pop up ad that won’t close, pain in the ass for another day I suppose.

    Unless Date gets calcs, I believe Spidey is a reasonably solid defense.
    Misaka can shoot at mach 3 if I remember right, which should take out all but SM, though I suppose current incarnation of SM needs feats for dodging group attacks, most of joker defense can be picked off by Misaka with ease, with Date demolishing the rest.

  10. The Terror December 26, 2014 at 8:09 am -      #110

    I just remebered the guy’s name. Morlun.

  11. pimpmage December 26, 2014 at 8:12 am -      #111

    “Other than that, yea you’re crazy. Since it is the same character.”

    Ok, so that spider man character in his first issue back in 1963 is 20-30 right? The setting for that incarnation is (i am assuming, call me crazy here) 1963. And issues are still being printed up to 2014 right? You are telling me the young adult spider man is ~72 years old?

  12. The Terror December 26, 2014 at 8:12 am -      #112

    Hey no one has disapproved Sora having ftl reflexes and possibly ftl movements to go along with it. This will last until Ragnorke admits Spiderman didn’t dodge a lightspeed attack.

  13. Xander XT December 26, 2014 at 8:30 am -      #113

    The Terror, please read this.
    factpile.com/5153-link-vs-sora/
    It shows why Sora does not have FTL reactions. The last pages should show why.

  14. The Terror December 26, 2014 at 8:35 am -      #114

    @Xander
    I already read that it is just a certain someone said Spiderman had ftl reflexes cause he dodged lasers that the villain said was lightspeed and by that logic Sora would have ftl reflexes cause he dodged beams the game said to be lasers.

  15. Ragnorke December 26, 2014 at 9:06 am -      #115

    @Numinous
    “Easiest way to solve this I believe, who is the current incarnation of Spiderman?”

    Peter Parker 616.
    You know… The same guy from the first Spider Man comic ever.

    @Pimp
    “Ok, so that spider man character in his first issue back in 1963 is 20-30 right?…. You are telling me the young adult spider man is ~72 years old?”

    What on earth made you think they follow the same time as real life?
    Did i, or anyone, ever say that? Ever?

    They have their own time-stream of events.
    The infinity gauntlet, The magus invasion, the civil war, world war hulk, dark avengers, Siege of Asgard, war of kings, The annihilation wave, Infinity, Incursion.
    ALL Marvel 616. SAME universe. SAME characters.
    They never retconned a single event. No matter how old.
    DC on the other hand, officially retconned their canon universe twice now.

    @Terror
    ” it is just a certain someone said Spiderman had ftl reflexes”

    You deserve a slap right now. Honestly.
    I said Spiderman manages to dodge it using a combination of Precognition (knowing where things are going to happen before they happen), aim-dodging, AND reflexes.
    Stop being an idiot.

    ” by that logic Sora would have ftl reflexes cause he dodged beams the game said to be lasers.”

    Sora didn’t dodge the part of the beam which was FTL though.
    The person shooting it just missed.
    After the beam was ALREADY fired (at light speed), it was then changing directions rather slowly (at a rate close to 5 m/s)… Which Sora was dodging.

    Also worth noting that the Laser didn’t appear to be the speed of light.
    What we see > what something is called.
    (Example: i can call myself a Rhino, but that doens’t make me one.)

    But in the case of a comic, where we can’t see speeds, we assume things to be the default of what we’re told.
    If it’s called a Laser, and said to be the speed of light, than i have ZERO reason to think otherwise,.

  16. The Terror December 26, 2014 at 9:39 am -      #116

    “You deserve a slap right now. Honestly.
    I said Spiderman manages to dodge it using a combination of Precognition (knowing where things are going to happen before they happen), aim-dodging, AND reflexes.
    Stop being an idiot.”
    Alright, I am saying those lasers aren’t light speed and may have worded it wrong but he still has not dodged anything lightspeed.

    “But in the case of a comic, where we can’t see speeds, we assume things to be the default of what we’re told.
    If it’s called a Laser, and said to be the speed of light, than i have ZERO reason to think otherwise,.”
    No, we don’t. One of Hulk’s feat include him destroying an asteroid bigger than earth as Joe Fix-it. Lot of people argue against this feat cause they say Hulk had help from some special springs even though a scientist said he doesn’t know has the strength to accomplish the feat. We don’t assume the default of what were told cause that could easily be hyperbole or simply not true.

    “Sora didn’t dodge the part of the beam which was FTL though.
    The person shooting it just missed.
    After the beam was ALREADY fired (at light speed), it was then changing directions rather slowly (at a rate close to 5 m/s)… Which Sora was dodging.”
    12:10 dome of lasers were surrounding him.

    “Also worth noting that the Laser didn’t appear to be the speed of light.
    What we see > what something is called.
    (Example: i can call myself a Rhino, but that doesn’t make me one.)”
    Just cause it doesn’t seem that fast does not mean it isn’t. In the game things can look a lot slower than they actually are so that way the game is playable. The reason we know it is a laser is that the bar at the top left tells us so.

  17. Malenfant December 26, 2014 at 10:45 am -      #117

    Can anyone on the Joker’s team actually touch the TARDIS if they get to it? It’s, for the most part, indestructible. It can fly through black holes and supernovae, take hits from all kinds of stellar batteries and missiles, watch the formation of planets and solar systems (with doors wide open!), chill out on the surface of a neutron star, survive being close to the Big Bang, etc.

    Not to mention the TARDIS itself is a sentient higher (11D I think) dimensional creature that can reorganize matter. Another viable tactic would just be letting the Joker’s team into the TARDIS! The Temporal State of Grace inside prohibits any hostile action or weaponry being utilized, which means they’re effectively useless, and then the TARDIS can just delete the rooms the Joker’s team is in for a flawless and quick victory.

    And that’s not to mention what the Doctor can cook up with her, or just the Doctor in general, who I still don’t see why he’s fair to include here.

  18. Ragnorke December 26, 2014 at 11:19 am -      #118

    @Terror
    “Alright, I am saying those lasers aren’t light speed and may have worded it wrong but he still has not dodged anything lightspeed.”

    So… Basically… You’re saying we should ignore the official definition of a Laser… AND we should ignore the character (who appears to be a clever scientist) specifically mentioning they are light-speed… Because…. Ummm…. Because why again?

    Because you don’t think Spiderman is capable of it?
    Well he has PRE-fucking-COGNITION. Why wouldn’t he be capable of it?
    It makes perfect sense to me. Specially considering he has speedblitsed the likes of Ironman, dodged phoenix cyclops’ attacks, dodged all of Thors hits and Mjolnir.
    He seems more than capable.

    “No, we don’t. One of Hulk’s feat include him destroying an asteroid bigger than earth as Joe Fix-it. Lot of people argue against this feat cause they say Hulk had help from some special springs even though a scientist said he doesn’t know has the strength to accomplish the feat. We don’t assume the default of what were told cause that could easily be hyperbole or simply not true.”

    I know exactly the feat you’re talking about here, as i was the primary person debating against it (Hulk vs Asura).
    And everything you said here is fucking wrong.
    1. The scientist said he DIDN’T KNOW whether Hulk had the strength or not. HE wasn’t sure of Hulks capabilities.
    How is that the case here? If a scientist made Lasers, he fucking knows whether they’re real lasers or not.
    2. NO ONE CALLED IT HYPERBOLE. Ever. At all.
    You can’t call a visible feat Hyperbole.
    Unless you mean the scientists claim of the laser being Light speed is Hyperbole, which is fucking retarded since it’s a god damn laser, which are by definition light speed.
    3. The reason no one took that feat at face value was because we didn’t know anything about the ASTEROID.
    We didn’t know its mass, we didn’t know its density. Size is meaningless when measuring forces.
    It could have been fucking styrophome for all i knew.
    That isn’t the case here. It’s called a laser, AND he says it’s light speed.

    That’s like the scientist giving us the exact material that the Asteroid is made of, AND giving us the exact density of that material.
    Why/How can you argue against that? without having any reason for it to be false?

    He said it’s a Laser (which is the speed of light), it looked like a laser, he told us its speed… So why doubt it?
    If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, and sounds like a duck… It’s a duck.
    Unless YOU can prove otherwise. (or at least have SOME evidence as to why it isn’t a Duck.)

    You: “Hey man! that duck… it isn’t a real duck”
    Me: “umm… Why not?”
    You: “i dunno, it just isn’t”
    Me: “but… the zookeeper said it is… and it looks like one… and it sounds like one… The zookeeper even told us the specific breed.”
    You: “I dunno man, that isn’t a fucking duck. I have no idea why not, it just isn’t”

    Occams Razor debating rule, least amount of assumptions is the correct one. So stop assuming bullshit just because you don’t think Spiderman is capable of something.

    “Just cause it doesn’t seem that fast does not mean it isn’t. In the game things can look a lot slower than they actually are ”

    You have to find some sort of relevant evidence to back this up.
    Preferably a quote from a game designer, or a piece from the lore.
    Visuals are pretty important in games. If something doesn’t look fast, your word isn’t enough for me to agree that it really is.

    I don’t care if it’s called a Laser if i can SEE that it isn’t light speed.
    I can call my cat a dog, but if someone can clearly see it’s actually a cat… Why should they believe it’s a dog?

    If a character in the game specifically said it’s light speed though, than i would consider the visuals being misleading. But no one in the game said that. The term “Laser” is merely a title, and isn’t literal in this case.
    In the spiderman feat however… if was not only called a Laser… But it was SPECIFICALLY mentioned to be a literal laser.

  19. Ragnorke December 26, 2014 at 11:25 am -      #119

    I don’t know why anyone is doubting the feat to begin with.

    Precog IS faster than light reflexes.
    Why is there any doubt about that?
    It’s common sense.

    Do you guys just not understand the concept of knowing something BEFORE it happens?
    Why does it matter what speed the thing is, if you can begin dodging it before it even starts?

    Light has a speed, it needs to travel, it takes time.
    Light speed reflexes means being able to react to it before it reaches you.
    Precog means being able to react to it BEFORE it EVEN STARTS.

    Precog > light speed reflexes.
    Use your brains instead of called a feat bullshit for no reason.

  20. Ragnorke December 26, 2014 at 11:27 am -      #120

    @Malenfant
    “It’s, for the most part, indestructible. It can fly through black holes and supernovae, take hits from all kinds of stellar batteries and missiles, watch the formation of planets and solar systems (with doors wide open!), chill out on the surface of a neutron star, survive being close to the Big Bang, etc.”

    Lol, sounds like post-Crises Superman.

  21. Rookie December 26, 2014 at 12:51 pm -      #121

    @Terror

    I need your opinion. Is disgaea.wikia.com/wiki/Axel weaker or stronger than Valvatorez? Because here he made either planetary or galaxy level black hole and show us massive FTL ability (from 4:20):

  22. Friendlysociopath December 26, 2014 at 12:59 pm -      #122

    Again, I don’t know who this is.
    But I’m getting the feeling you don’t have the slightest idea how much energy mountain busting takes.
    The feat you described is not close.


    I’m guessing somewhere around the energy that is used to punch aside the Sea.
    @1:00 in

    Also, out of curiosity, exactly what level of energy would you put shockwaves that knock soldiers flying and dries up rivers from miles away?

    @TheTerror
    You’ve just given Sora ftl reflexes and speed! He stomps! You wanna continue?

    Nobody in his game says the lasers are FTL, not one person. Nobody even calls them lasers, the game itself calls them lasers. They aren’t nearly close enough to make Sora ftl.

  23. wingedlion December 26, 2014 at 1:03 pm -      #123

    “We usually don’t assume it’s the speed of light just because we assume they aren’t literal “lasers”, and rather assume they’re force blasts or some other form of energy beam.
    If a specific beam is specifically called a LASER, then it is the Speed of light. And the burden of proof is on you to prove otherwise.”

    Except the problem with this is that the only people that actually calls it lasers is spiderman and the villain he’s fighting. There is no narraration or canon source calling them lasers. And considering how beams in fictions can be easily identical to lasers like you just said, Spiderman could be easily mistaken.
    Not to mention he’s consistently been hit by things slower.

    “To top it off, the character says it’s the speed of light too”

    Which still means nothing, since it’s a character statement. Is there a reason we should take his word as fact and not him simply bragging?

    “Eh, Thor is FTL yet he gets hit by people like Hulk.
    Superman is billions of times faster than light yet he gets hit by slower people.
    Flash… Gets hit… The end.”

    Yes, but Spiderman getting hit by Electro is complety consistent in his comics. Electro is one of spiderman’s most dangerous villians. He usually needs prep to just beat the guy.

    “Electro uses electricity, which can travel at 1/3rd the speed of light casually.”

    1/3rd the speed of light is still slower than the speed of light.

    “Venom has precognition, speed, reaction time to compete with spiderman.
    Same with carnage.”

    What about Morlun, who has most of what you just said except for precog? Shouldn’t Spiderman be able to dodge his attacks with his precog advantage?

    “he has speedblitsed the likes of Ironman,”

    Pretty sure Iron man wasn’t light-speed at that time

    dodged phoenix cyclops’ attacks,

    considering Cyclops blast aren’t even lasers, what does this have to do with anything?

    dodged all of Thors hits and Mjolnir.

    I already explained to you why this doesn’t mean anything.

    “who appears to be a clever scientist”

    Proof of this?

    “Precog > light speed reflexes.”

    Do you know how many people have gotten the shit kicked out of them despite their precog simply because their reactions wasn’t good enough?
    Pre-cog isn’t that great unless you have the nessecary reactions to keep up with them.

    Honestly, though, i don’t even know why any of this matters. Spiderman still has no counter to being frozen in time, being put to sleep, or helplessly floating in gravity.

  24. Rookie December 26, 2014 at 1:04 pm -      #124

    Also more feats for Valvatorez. Starbusting is a children’s games in Disgaea and not a single overlord who is worth his title will be boasting about something so small (from 7:09)

  25. The Terror December 26, 2014 at 1:06 pm -      #125

    “So… Basically… You’re saying we should ignore the official definition of a Laser… AND we should ignore the character (who appears to be a clever scientist) specifically mentioning they are light-speed… Because…. Ummm…. Because why again?”
    I don’t have to be a scientist to say something is the speed of light.

    “Because you don’t think Spiderman is capable of it?
    Well he has PRE-fucking-COGNITION. Why wouldn’t he be capable of it?”
    He has a danger sense not precog.
    1. it tells him there is danger, but not where it is coming from.
    2. it also acts like a radar.
    3. it does not allow him to see into the future.

    “It makes perfect sense to me. Specially considering he has speedblitsed the likes of Ironman, dodged phoenix cyclops’ attacks, dodged all of Thors hits and Mjolnir.
    He seems more than capable.”
    What armor was Ironman in? Are does lightspeed? Thor would never use a lightspeed attack on a mortal.

    “1. The scientist said he DIDN’T KNOW whether Hulk had the strength or not. HE wasn’t sure of Hulks capabilities.
    How is that the case here? If a scientist made Lasers, he fucking knows whether they’re real lasers or not.”
    First, I’ve seen someone use that to say it is a strength feat. Second, if we take that feat face value than even Grey Hulk can planet bust, but we don’t cause it has been proven wrong. That is why I don’t accept that as an actual lightspeed laser.

    “. NO ONE CALLED IT HYPERBOLE. Ever. At all.
    You can’t call a visible feat Hyperbole.
    Unless you mean the scientists claim of the laser being Light speed is Hyperbole, which is fucking retarded since it’s a god damn laser, which are by definition light speed.”
    Then Sora has lightspeed reflexes end of discussion.

    “He said it’s a Laser (which is the speed of light), it looked like a laser, he told us its speed… So why doubt it?
    If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, and sounds like a duck… It’s a duck.
    Unless YOU can prove otherwise. (or at least have SOME evidence as to why it isn’t a Duck.)”
    We can clearly see it is duck so I can’t argue against it. But, this is a laser in comic books. He may have said it is light speed, but it can easily be hyperbole. Then there is the fact Spiderman dodged it. Now Death Battle (Shoot me. I know you want to) said Spiderman can be hit by people as fast or faster than him (sounds legit) and we all know he is not light speed nor does he have precognition but instead a danger sense then he is going to be hit by a (by the book) laser. So face the (Sweet Chin) Music.

    “You have to find some sort of relevant evidence to back this up.
    Preferably a quote from a game designer, or a piece from the lore.
    Visuals are pretty important in games. If something doesn’t look fast, your word isn’t enough for me to agree that it really is.

    I don’t care if it’s called a Laser if i can SEE that it isn’t light speed.
    I can call my cat a dog, but if someone can clearly see it’s actually a cat… Why should they believe it’s a dog?”
    Now I was going to look up Sora’s speed and use it to prove you wrong, but he is listed as ftl (they have calcs) and I already know you are going to say no to it so I may come back to this later.

  26. wingedlion December 26, 2014 at 1:07 pm -      #126

    Nobody even calls them lasers, the game itself calls them lasers.”

    Not that i’m saying he has FTL reactions, but the game calling them that is far better proof than the characters saying that.

  27. Rookie December 26, 2014 at 1:09 pm -      #127

    @The Terror

    Sorry to bother you, but what about powerscalings I found for Valvatorez, are they looks legit?

  28. The Terror December 26, 2014 at 1:11 pm -      #128

    @Rookie
    That is the move (iirc) Big Bang which is a fist attack Valvatorez can learn so no Valvatorez is stronger.

    can I see them?

  29. Rookie December 26, 2014 at 1:13 pm -      #129

    @The Terror

    And about stars?

    “That is the move (iirc) Big Bang which is a fist attack Valvatorez can learn so no Valvatorez is stronger.”

    So he is capable to Big Bang level attack?

    “can I see them?”

    Powerscalings? They are in video above, the one with big bang and Etna words about star-busting being a minor thing for demons.

  30. The Terror December 26, 2014 at 1:19 pm -      #130

    “So he is capable to Big Bang level attack?”
    Depends on what type of weapon he is given and his skill level with it.

  31. Friendlysociopath December 26, 2014 at 1:19 pm -      #131

    Proof of this?

    Did you really just ask for proof if Spiderman is a clever scientist?

    Depends on what type of weapon he is given and his skill level with it.

    Valvatorez is proficient with swords and spears, don’t use fist skills that he wouldn’t have.

  32. wingedlion December 26, 2014 at 1:23 pm -      #132

    “Did you really just ask for proof if Spiderman is a clever scientist?”

    Pretty sure he was talking about the villian.

  33. Rookie December 26, 2014 at 1:24 pm -      #133

    @Friendlysociopath

    “Valvatorez is proficient with swords and spears, don’t use fist skills that he wouldn’t have.”

    He still is casual star-buster (level 10 demon can destroy star, Valvatorez is at minimum should have level 200, but it’s hard to tell his real level since he never appear as enemy yet).
    Should be enough to stomp Bills into oblivion IMO.

  34. Ragnorke December 26, 2014 at 1:37 pm -      #134

    @wingedlion
    “Except the problem with this is that the only people that actually calls it lasers is spiderman and the villain he’s fighting”

    1. They look like Lasers.
    2. They are called Lasers.
    3. They are stated to be light speed.

    Why is there any argument about this again?
    Did you miss my duck example?
    You have NO reason to disregard this feat, at all. Not the slightest reason in existence.

    Anyways, Occams Razor is heavily on my side.
    You want to ASSUME that the person using the lasers doesn’t know their actual speed, or is lying.
    You want me to ASSUME the term “Laser” isn’t being used literally, despite them stated as being the speed of light.
    Whereas i’m not assuming anything. Back to the Duck example.

    So i have no need to continue this discussion until someone gets EVIDENCE as to why they aren’t the speed of light.
    Despite them being called Lasers, despite them looking like Lasers, and despite them being called Light speed.

    “Not to mention he’s consistently been hit by things slower.”

    So has EVERY ftl character in existence. Consistently.
    Are you trying to say none of them are FTL?
    What’s your fucking point?

    “Which still means nothing, since it’s a character statement. Is there a reason we should take his word as fact and not him simply bragging?”

    There is no reason NOT to take his word as fact.
    Sure we don’t always take character statements as fact, but that’s only if:
    1. The character has a boastful ego.
    2. The statement is flat out contradicted by fact.

    Neither of those 2 are the case here.
    So WHY should it be ignored? There is NO reason to ignore it, besides people not wanting to comprehend spidermans precog.

    “Then Sora has lightspeed reflexes end of discussion.”

    Except we can visually see that the “lasers” aren’t lightspeed.
    And the “lasers” are never said to be lightspeed.

    So once again, Occams Razor is on my side.
    You want me to ASSUME the gameplay visuals aren’t representative of the canon events.
    Yet you can’t prove that.
    So end of discussion.
    Back to the cat/dog title example.

    “Do you know how many people have gotten the shit kicked out of them despite their precog simply because their reactions wasn’t good enough?
    Pre-cog isn’t that great unless you have the nessecary reactions to keep up with them.”

    Spiderman obviously DOES have the nessacary reaction to keep up with his precog, since he DOES keep up with it. Proven.

    “Yes, but Spiderman getting hit by Electro is complety consistent in his comics. Electro is one of spiderman’s most dangerous villians.”

    He dodges Electros attacks more times than he gets hit by them.
    Wanna make a million dollar bet on it?

    “1/3rd the speed of light is still slower than the speed of light.”

    And he does a rather casual job of dodging them for the most part.
    He has gotten hit, sure, but for every hit he dodges a dozen.

  35. Ragnorke December 26, 2014 at 1:46 pm -      #135

    @Terror
    “I don’t have to be a scientist to say something is the speed of light.”

    How is this a response to what i asked…?
    I’ll just repeat myself: “So… Basically… You’re saying we should ignore the official definition of a Laser… AND we should ignore the character (who appears to be a clever scientist) specifically mentioning they are light-speed… Because…. Ummm…. Because why again?

    You have no counter. There is no counter.
    There’s no reason to ignore statements like this whatsoever.
    Calling something a laser, and stating its speed, isn’t the slightest bit Boastful in any meaningful sense.
    And it isn’t contradictory to anything at all.

    “1. it tells him there is danger, but not where it is coming from.”

    Wolverine & Nightcrawler would like to have a word with you,

    “3. it does not allow him to see into the future.”

    It allows him to see the direction of attacks before they happen.
    So in a sense, yes, it does allow him to see into the future.

    “First, I’ve seen someone use that to say it is a strength feat. Second, if we take that feat face value than even Grey Hulk can planet bust, but we don’t cause it has been proven wrong. That is why I don’t accept that as an actual lightspeed laser.”

    1. It’s a durability feat, not a strength feat. Science is on my side, and i’m not getting into this again here.
    2. No, because we have no idea what the Asteroid was made of.
    3. How is the lightspeed laser proven wrong? No one fucking proved it wrong in any sense of the word.

    “We can clearly see it is duck so I can’t argue against it. But, this is a laser in comic books. He may have said it is light speed, but it can easily be hyperbole.”

    The duck example perfectly applies here.
    It looks like a laser, it’s called a laser, and it has the speed of a laser.
    You don’t think it’s a laser caus you’re practically trolling and have no evidence to back up what you’re saying.

    Occams Razor is on my side.

    “Then there is the fact Spiderman dodged it. Now Death Battle (Shoot me. I know you want to) said Spiderman can be hit by people as fast or faster than him ”

    Gtfo.

    “nor does he have precognition but instead a danger sense”

    Wolverine & Nightcrawler would like to have a word with you. Again.

    “Now I was going to look up Sora’s speed and use it to prove you wrong, but he is listed as ftl (they have calcs)”

    OH WOW.
    THEY HAVE CALCS?
    NO WAY.
    HOLY SHIT.
    I SHOULD TOTALLY JUST CONCEDE NOW.
    CAUS THEY HAVE CALCS.
    DAMN.
    Yea, post em or gtfo.

    Edit: To be fair i couldn’t care less about Sora. YOU brought him up as an example, not me.
    Post the calcs if you want to, but it’ll only be for the sake of the rest of the debate.
    I have no interest in the matter.

  36. Friendlysociopath December 26, 2014 at 1:46 pm -      #136

    Alright, for those of you who wanted a link- I entered the 1st episode on BankGamblingtopia but it won’t appear until it’s approved.
    Once it is I’d appreciate anyone familiar with the characters of Iron Man and Boba Fett would check it to see if I’m portraying the characters correctly. Obviously there will be some parts that I just can’t change for the sake of the plot but I’d like to stick as close to the actual characters as I can.

    @Terror
    Those calcs for Sora probably are counting the lasers as actual lasers. It’s the only part of the game where he supposedly goes anywhere near that speed.

  37. wingedlion December 26, 2014 at 2:22 pm -      #137

    “1. They look like Lasers.”

    This is true.

    “2. They are called Lasers.”

    By characters. Not proof.

    “3. They are stated to be light speed.”

    Once again, by a character.
    BankGambling does not take character statements as facts, unless you can prove without a doubt that we can take what he says as proof.

    “You have NO reason to disregard this feat, at all. Not the slightest reason in existence.”

    Don’t be ridiculous, of course i do.
    We have always been required to prove our claims without shadow of a doubt to be true.
    So long as there is at least one doubt, the claim won’t be excepted.
    In this case, that doubt is the fact that the only statements you can find about it being lasers or lightspeed are from two characters, one who could be bragging while the other could be mistaking laser beams with energy.

    “Anyways, Occams Razor is heavily on my side.
    You want to ASSUME that the person using the lasers doesn’t know their actual speed, or is lying.
    You want me to ASSUME the term “Laser” isn’t being used literally, despite them stated as being the speed of light.
    Whereas i’m not assuming anything. Back to the Duck example.”

    You are assuming though. Your assuming those are lasers despite it only being stated by characters. Character statements are never viable unless you have a reason why they should be.
    So no, Occam’s Razor does not support you.

    “So i have no need to continue this discussion until someone gets EVIDENCE as to why they aren’t the speed of light.”

    No one needs to get evidence because you haven’t provided any in the first place. Just character statements, which is not evidence.

    “So has EVERY ftl character in existence. Consistently.”

    Nowhere near as much as spiderman. It is a known fact the spiderman has struggled with villians far slower over and over again, even with spider-sense.

    “Neither of those 2 are the case here.”

    Where’s your proof that the first one isn’t the case?

    “Spiderman obviously DOES have the nessacary reaction to keep up with his precog, since he DOES keep up with it. Proven.”

    I like how you completely missed my point.
    For Spiderman to be able to use his precog to dodge lasers, he has to have light-speed reactions, something that’s proven to be untrue for him with nearly every fight he has.
    Say we did take those beams as actual lasers, that is literally the only one he has of him doing that.
    Every other feat is of him dodging radom energy beams and getting hit by shit far slower than lasers.

    “He dodges Electros attacks more times than he gets hit by them.”

    “And he does a rather casual job of dodging them for the most part.
    He has gotten hit, sure, but for every hit he dodges a dozen.”

    That may be true, but the fact still remains that he does get hit by them, as well as other attacks slower than light. Meanwhile, you only have one potential LS feat.
    So my point still stands, it’s not consistent.
    Hell, at least superman and the like have consistent FTL feats. Spiderman only has one that’s contradicted by every other feat he has.

  38. wingedlion December 26, 2014 at 2:29 pm -      #138

    “mistaking laser beams with energy.”

    random energy beams is what i meant to say.

  39. Malenfant December 26, 2014 at 2:58 pm -      #139

    “Lol, sounds like post-Crises Superman.”

    You mean pre-crisis? Post-Crisis is a far cry from some of the silliness TARDI tend to show.

  40. The Terror December 26, 2014 at 3:15 pm -      #140

    “How is this a response to what i asked…?
    I’ll just repeat myself: “So… Basically… You’re saying we should ignore the official definition of a Laser… AND we should ignore the character (who appears to be a clever scientist) specifically mentioning they are light-speed… Because…. Ummm…. Because why again?”
    So, you dont see you wrote “we should ignore the character (who appears to be a clever scientist) specifically mentioning they are light-speed”. Maybe I should recommend you to my doctor.

    “Wolverine & Nightcrawler would like to have a word with you”
    They gave me a trophy!

    “It allows him to see the direction of attacks before they happen.
    So in a sense, yes, it does allow him to see into the future.”
    Nope, he can see every around him with it though.

    “The duck example perfectly applies here.
    It looks like a laser, it’s called a laser, and it has the speed of a laser.
    You don’t think it’s a laser caus you’re practically trolling and have no evidence to back up what you’re saying.”
    You didn’t prove it had the speed yet and no to say someone is trolling cause they disagree.

    “Gtfo.”
    BUT I CANT FIND THE DOOR!

    “Wolverine & Nightcrawler would like to have a word with you. Again”
    They gave me a medal and a billion dollars!

    “Yea, post em or gtfo.”
    vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Sora
    I can already see you saying no to this right now.

  41. Sardine GOD December 26, 2014 at 3:40 pm -      #141

    Hey guys, remember when Spiderman beat Fire Lord? BankGambling.wikia.com/wiki/SMvsFL

    Anyway, this fight seems to be coming along nicely lol.

  42. The Terror December 26, 2014 at 3:44 pm -      #142

    @Sardine
    Spiderman strikes again.

  43. The Terror December 26, 2014 at 3:52 pm -      #143

    After looking around a little I came upon this BankGambling.wikia.com/wiki/Power_6 . Now I want them in a match.

  44. Rookie December 26, 2014 at 3:59 pm -      #144

    @The Terror

    “After looking around a little I came upon this BankGambling.wikia.com/wiki/Power_6 . Now I want them in a match.”

    It’s easy to find an opponents for them IMO. Toriko verse, One-punch man verse + Helspont dc.wikia.com/wiki/Helspont_%28Wildstorm_Universe%29 (current) and H’El ( dc.wikia.com/wiki/H%27el_%28Prime_Earth%29 )

    The only problem is naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Infinite_Tsukuyomi , but should this ability be disabled for match (or no moon present in match) we will have a nice, long fight.

  45. Friendlysociopath December 26, 2014 at 3:59 pm -      #145

    @malenfant
    All they have to do is get into the TARDIS to destroy “The Sardine of Golden Promises and Camaraderie” that is hooked up to the main console of the TARDIS. The lock on the door doesn’t even work now- why do you think I went so far out of my way to call it helpless?

    @Terror, I stand corrected. However there are some giant assumptions being thrown in there. First and foremost that the Lilo and Stitch planets are all exactly as far away from one another as they are in the movies.
    Second is that Stitch’s ship performs exactly as it does in the movie when we’ve seen several characters and worlds not matching up to their canon material.
    Third, and most importantly, Ven barely moves his arm in a cutscene and people are taking that to mean he’s ftl? I don’t buy it.

  46. Rookie December 26, 2014 at 4:04 pm -      #146

    @Friendlysociopath

    What about Date’s speed? How fast is he?

  47. Warlock Lowk December 26, 2014 at 4:05 pm -      #147

    “Ok, so that spider man character in his first issue back in 1963 is 20-30 right? The setting for that incarnation is (i am assuming, call me crazy here) 1963. And issues are still being printed up to 2014 right? You are telling me the young adult spider man is ~72 years old?”

    Lol comic time is wierd with its ages/times. I think one of the fantastic four’s kids has been 3 for the past 2 actual years.
    ===
    “Yes, but Spiderman getting hit by Electro is complety consistent in his comics.”

    Really? Iirc even when otto was brain jacking spidermans body he was dodging electro. Otto was shit at following the body’s spider sense.
    ===
    “What about Morlun, who has most of what you just said except for precog?”

    Morlun and his siblings are a little crazy. They’ve gone around the multiverse stomping not only alternate spider-men but anyone protecting them. Regardless most spider-men are capable of dodging him and there attacks. Its how the ones who survive are even alive.
    ===
    ” considering Cyclops blast aren’t even lasers, what does this have to do with anything?”

    Actually I recall there being a statement of it being lightspeed unfortunatly. I’ll try to see of I can find it. Its one of those rare scans that hard to find.
    Wait nevermind easier then it use to be. Good looking fellow comic nerds of the internet
     http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80103/3698024-534770-cyclopsspeedoflightlb1.jpg

  48. Rookie December 26, 2014 at 4:07 pm -      #148

    @Warlock Lowk

    “Actually I recall there being a statement of it being lightspeed unfortunatly. I’ll try to see of I can find it. Its one of those rare scans that hard to find.”

    Found it:

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80103/3698024-534770-cyclopsspeedoflightlb1.jpg

    Ah, so you found it too it seems.

  49. Malenfant December 26, 2014 at 4:13 pm -      #149

    “All they have to do is get into the TARDIS to destroy “The Sardine of Golden Promises and Camaraderie” that is hooked up to the main console of the TARDIS. The lock on the door doesn’t even work now- why do you think I went so far out of my way to call it helpless?”

    The problem is that the Joker team can’t destroy the Sardine. No, it’s not that they can’t get in, they just can’t. The TARDIS has this neat thing called a “Temporal State of Grace”. What does this do? Disables all hostile attacks. There was this one point where, in an attempt to create peace between the Sontarans and Rutans, he locked two important figures, one Sontaran, the other Rutan, inside the TARDIS. These two people absolutely despise(d) each other, but in the TARDIS, nope. Couldn’t even touch each other.

    Then we have larger scale instances, IIRC once the Doctor materialized the TARDIS around a whole planet (Yes, it can do that. Casually.) that was about to be torn up by missile fire from opposing cultures. Because the planet was inside the TARDIS, the Temporal State of Grace made it so the missiles couldn’t do anything. They were summarily dumped out of existence by the Doctor, which is another facet of the TARDIS’s capabilities.

    Even without the Doctor the TARDIS can still reorganize matter within itself. Like I said above, it’s entirely possible for the TARDIS to just dump any intruders into another dimension for them to wallow for eternity, as well. Don’t let the fact that the TARDIS is a broken down piece of junk fool you- it’s still quite powerful.

  50. Rookie December 26, 2014 at 4:17 pm -      #150

    @Malenfant

    “The TARDIS has this neat thing called a “Temporal State of Grace”. What does this do? Disables all hostile attacks”

    So there is no limit to it’s defence ability?

  51. Friendlysociopath December 26, 2014 at 4:20 pm -      #151

    What about Date’s speed? How fast is he?

    I’m not the best at calculations. So I lowball him at hypersonic+ for several reasons.
    1) Many characters in the series jump in and out of atmosphere in seconds. Even characters that don’t use magic like Hideyoshi.
    2) Lower end feats, he cuts roughly 100 arrows away from himself in a few seconds.
    3) Again lower end, another general ran straight through gatling-gunfire without an issue.



    Alright, here’s the first of Date’s orbital bombardments. The orbital drop itself begins at 2:40ish.
    Now, the argument can be made that this is PIS cause of the cloud of team energy all of the generals makes, but he does it several times without the group energy and each time he goes higher and faster.

    Don’t let the fact that the TARDIS is a broken down piece of junk fool you- it’s still quite powerful.

    I know that. I called it helpless for a reason- the TARDIS can in no way act on the Joker Offensive forces or even the Doctor Defenses beyond being a target.

  52. Rookie December 26, 2014 at 4:23 pm -      #152

    @Friendlysociopath

    So Date have at least hypersonic+ speed. Thank you.

    “Alright, here’s the first of Date’s orbital bombardments. The orbital drop itself begins at 2:40ish.”

    Can he make such move without Yukimura as his partner?

  53. The Terror December 26, 2014 at 4:23 pm -      #153

    I just realized the perfect opportunity to make a Yugioh reference was missed.

    @Friendly, I knew someone was going to disagree.

    @Rookie
    Are they strong enough to not be stomped by all of them while not stomping themselves?

  54. wingedlion December 26, 2014 at 4:25 pm -      #154

    “Really? Iirc even when otto was brain jacking spidermans body he was dodging electro. Otto was shit at following the body’s spider sense.”

    It varys. Spiderman has both dodged and gotten hit by Electro over their fights. My point is that those plus the other times he got hit by shit that’s slower than light is far more consistent than one feat that may be light speed.

    “Wait nevermind easier then it use to be. Good looking fellow comic nerds of the internet”

    Alright fair enough. Still, that one LS feat compared to all the times he got hit by far slower things and people.

    Also, none of this helps him against Sora’s spells.

    “Morlun and his siblings are a little crazy. They’ve gone around the multiverse stomping not only alternate spider-men but anyone protecting them. Regardless most spider-men are capable of dodging him and there attacks. Its how the ones who survive are even alive.”

    Right, but my point is if spiderman has LS reactions he shouldn’t get hit by Morlun at all.

    Also, Morlun’s the villian behind the spidermen event?

  55. Rookie December 26, 2014 at 4:34 pm -      #155

    @The Terror

    Yep. You should read OP-man if you have time, art is great, by far the best among Power 6, so good that it can rival legendary manga “Berserk”:
    img.bato.to/comics/2013/12/05/o/read52a0cb8ef010f/img000003.jpg
    img.bato.to/comics/2013/12/21/o/read52b55347054a3/img000005.jpg
    bato.to/read/_/164083/onepunch-man_ch1v3_by_boon-scanlation/2
    Story is pretty original too.
    Toriko is very competent verse (good guys rarely falls into trap) and as powers go OP-man and Toriko-verse can rival Power 6 without clear losing or winning. They also have their own hax, but this hax is not as good as Power 6 hax. But to have a chance to win they need “anti-hax\their own hax”. This is why comics guys needed. They powerful, but with Yhwach, Gremmy, Kaguya and the guy from Naruto last movie you will need them. May even add marvel.wikia.com/En_Sabah_Nur_%28Earth-616%29 to even the odds, but personally I think that just two comics guys are enough.

  56. The Terror December 26, 2014 at 4:43 pm -      #156

    @Rookie
    I already read OPman. Looking at the sheer number of troops in composite Power 6, Apocalypse is definitely going to be needed.

  57. Rookie December 26, 2014 at 4:46 pm -      #157

    @The Terror

    “I already read OPman. Looking at the sheer number of troops in composite Power 6, Apocalypse is definitely going to be needed.”

    Try to read Toriko someday too. You will be surprised how much they can add.
    Alternatively Power 6 vs just entire JJBA could be cool… but JJBA have stuff like this: jojo.wikia.com/wiki/Made_in_Heaven and this is not even most powerful stuff, so I doubt that JJBA will work.

  58. Commander Cross December 26, 2014 at 5:11 pm -      #158

    @Rookie at #157

    Y’all wanna talk The Power Six vs anything, try Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor(both 1 + 2, and if there’s future Devil Survivor Games, add them to the mix too.) vs The Power Six, and check for what on both sides may need to be barred.

    If both sides are at their most equal incarnations possible, it could have potential to work, and if that’s not enough, add Persona or Digital Devil Saga to the mix as well against The Power Six.

    Though I’ll admit that A United Shin Megami Tensei Mega-verse vs The Power Six may be way too high though, but Devil Survivor(every game for that segment of SMT), Strange Journey, Persona, Digital Devil Saga, Devil Summoner and Shin Megami Tensei IV ought to be enough Power to go fight The Power Six with.

    You can just go with The Amala Network vs The Power Six and it’ll be clear only segments of the SMT multi-verse will be fighting The Power Six.

  59. The Terror December 26, 2014 at 5:23 pm -      #159

    “Try to read Toriko someday too”
    My brother reads it.

    @CC
    Sounds like a good idea. None of them would be ran over by sheer numbers, however, do they have mountain busters?

  60. Rookie December 26, 2014 at 5:27 pm -      #160

    @Commander Cross

    Remember megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Nyarlathotep ? Who have casual reality warping and destroyed original Persona universe? The same guy who is the mook in most SMT games including DS 1 and 2. One mid game mook demon from DS 1 or 2 will stomp Power 6 into ground.
    Nya does have a sense of humor for a reality warper. He did prepared some rather unique villain for a RPG type game:

  61. Rookie December 26, 2014 at 5:29 pm -      #161

    @The Terror

    ” however, do they have mountain busters?”

    They eat universe-busters in random encounters.

  62. The Terror December 26, 2014 at 6:04 pm -      #162

    “They eat universe-busters in random encounters”
    Now I see why they don’t have a match here. They stomp DC and Marvel without there TOAAs

  63. pimpmage December 26, 2014 at 6:30 pm -      #163

    “megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Nyarlathotep ”

    That reference tho. That creature was the only one of lovecraft’s gods that I actually found super creepy. He basically just mind rapes the entire planet’s population into following him around in orderly lines. I really should reread a bunch of those stories.

    joediliberto.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/nyarlathotep.jpg

  64. Malenfant December 26, 2014 at 6:41 pm -      #164

    “So there is no limit to it’s defence ability?”

    Mental attacks may still work, as should other, non-physical abilities.

    “I know that. I called it helpless for a reason- the TARDIS can in no way act on the Joker Offensive forces or even the Doctor Defenses beyond being a target.”

    Unless they enter the TARDIS. Which happens to be a requirement for team Joker to win.

  65. Friendlysociopath December 26, 2014 at 7:27 pm -      #165

    Unless they enter the TARDIS. Which happens to be a requirement for team Joker to win.

    Malenfant, what’s rule number 1 of BankGambling? The TARDIS isn’t going to do anything for this battle besides sit there waiting for the victor to be determined.

  66. The Terror December 26, 2014 at 7:33 pm -      #166

    Hey what those the outcome of the match look like right now?

  67. The Terror December 26, 2014 at 7:46 pm -      #167

    does not those

  68. Malenfant December 26, 2014 at 8:30 pm -      #168

    “Malenfant, what’s rule number 1 of BankGambling? The TARDIS isn’t going to do anything for this battle besides sit there waiting for the victor to be determined.”

    Stop appealing to the OP unless you can show me where what I’m talking about is prohibited. All I see is “the TARDIS can’t go invisible nor use its barriers”, not “its inner, inherent defenses cannot be used.”

  69. Commander Cross December 26, 2014 at 8:35 pm -      #169

    @Rookie at #160

    I can’t quite recall if Nyarlathotep was at 100% Maximum Power in any of the other SMT-verses apart from Persona though. :/
    Either way, fear not as anyone from The Power Six on par with Original!-Madara Uchiha(Post-Ten Tails and Sage of Six Paths Powers.) or Princess Kaguya or above them may get barred from direct interference, and if any of the segments of The Amala Network listed up have anyone at their level or above, the same will be done on The Amala Network Forces as well.

    I’ll fess up that incarnation-wise, this regard’s gonna be tricky without making it clear that it’s most equal incarnations possible for both sides, which is where it gets interesting.

    Yeah something tells me that some versions and incarnations of End-Game Demi-Fiend might not allowed to directly interfere either, this part’s tough to deal with.

    Either way for all I’d know, just the segments of SMT for The Amala Network to represent might be too low, but A Fully United SMT vs The Power Six would be FAR TOO BLOODY HIGH and we may as well have Shin Megami Tensei vs Shonen Jump at this point.

    —-

    Either way, as for current fighting, part of it may boil down to Spidey vs Sora, but are we using 616-verse or Ultimate Spidey, again?
    Yes, the versions and incarnations make a load of difference, and if it’s the former, we’re going for Post-The Other(Evolve or Die!) Pre-One More Day or are we going with some of the later versions of Spidey if 616 is intended.

    Clear up the versions and incarnations ASAP, please.

  70. Neon Lord December 26, 2014 at 9:26 pm -      #170

    “Mental attacks may still work, as should other, non-physical abilities.”

    How does said defence system stop people from punching things inside?

    “Don’t be ridiculous, of course i do.
    We have always been required to prove our claims without shadow of a doubt to be true.
    So long as there is at least one doubt, the claim won’t be excepted.
    In this case, that doubt is the fact that the only statements you can find about it being lasers or lightspeed are from two characters, one who could be bragging while the other could be mistaking laser beams with energy”

    Um, what the hell? If we operated by that principle, then we wouldn’t have arguments. There is no such thing as a fact without a shadow of doubt, since there is always the minute possibility that it is wrong.

    And Occam’s Razor is really clear in this scenario. It is also up to you to disprove the claims with clear reasons as evidence, not for Rag to prove that they are what they say they are.

  71. Neon Lord December 26, 2014 at 9:28 pm -      #171

    Oh, and Mal, this bit of the OP makes the Tardis not have any other systems work.

    ” However, the TARDIS must dedicate the entirety of its power to this task and cannot be used in any fashion after landing. “

  72. Friendlysociopath December 26, 2014 at 9:49 pm -      #172

    Stop appealing to the OP unless you can show me where what I’m talking about is prohibited. All I see is “the TARDIS can’t go invisible nor use its barriers”, not “its inner, inherent defenses cannot be used.”

    Pffft, cue dramatic reveal music
    @1:11 in particular is good
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=asV0447SywY

    Ladies
    Gentlemen
    Assorted Facts of all ages
    Size
    Nationality
    and Gender
    it brings me great pleasure to introduce myself
    (bows)
    AS THE OP

  73. wingedlion December 26, 2014 at 9:49 pm -      #173

    “Um, what the hell? If we operated by that principle, then we wouldn’t have arguments. There is no such thing as a fact without a shadow of doubt, since there is always the minute possibility that it is wrong.”

    Not really.
    If he finds some narration or reliable source that confirms their light-speed, it’s impossible to doubt it.
    If he can prove that the person who made the claim wasn’t talking out of his ass, and that we can truly trust his word on it, it’s impossible to doubt it.
    But claiming something to be true simply because a character said it was is not evidence or fact of anything, and it can easily be questioned.

    “And Occam’s Razor is really clear in this scenario. It is also up to you to disprove the claims with clear reasons as evidence, not for Rag to prove that they are what they say they are.”

    It’s not up to me to disprove anything, because Ragnorke has yet to actually provide any evidence to his claim. I’ll repeat once more, character statements are not proof, unless you can prove the statements are indeed reliable.

    Occam’s razor is pretty clear, and it doesn’t support him at all.

  74. The Terror December 26, 2014 at 9:54 pm -      #174

    “And Occam’s Razor is really clear in this scenario. It is also up to you to disprove the claims with clear reasons as evidence, not for Rag to prove that they are what they say they are.”
    Rag is assuming:
    -That what the villain is saying isn’t hyperbole
    – He is a scientist
    – that precognition > light speed
    – Thor threw his hammer at light speed
    – Spiderman dodging light speed is consistent

    We (anyone arguing against it) are assuming:
    – The light speed claim is hyperbole
    – Cyclop’s eye beams aren’t light speed
    – that the villain isn’t a scientist

    Occam’s razor is on our side.

  75. wingedlion December 26, 2014 at 10:00 pm -      #175

    “– Cyclop’s eye beams aren’t light speed”

    Well actually lowk proved that they are so i conceded that point.

  76. The Terror December 26, 2014 at 10:05 pm -      #176

    oh

  77. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 27, 2014 at 1:00 am -      #177

    Was there seriously a conversation of whether or not old comics can be used or not? I’d understand if this was DC, but it’s Marvel. There really shouldn’t be any debate about it…

  78. pimpmage December 27, 2014 at 2:27 am -      #178

    “that precognition > light speed”

    Why the fuck is this being argued? Seriously? If a guy finds out he is gonna be shot with a laser 5 seconds into the future while he is standing in place, its not fucking light speed reactions to get away from that spot before the laser hits. He has warning an event will happen in a certain way and he changes the outcome before the event takes place. Thats not a reaction feat of any sort, that is just a guy that doesn’t want to die from a frickin laser beam.

  79. Rookie December 27, 2014 at 2:33 am -      #179

    @Commander Cross

    “I can’t quite recall if Nyarlathotep was at 100% Maximum Power in any of the other SMT-verses apart from Persona though. :/”

    He is.

    @The Terror

    “Now I see why they don’t have a match here. They stomp DC and Marvel without there TOAAs”

    SMT is the only verse I know that can stand against Marvel or DC for a long time.
    Here’s a thread with a lot of feats for SMT if you are interested: forums.spacebattles.com/threads/exalted-vs-shin-megami-tensei-including-persona.306196/
    The strongest being in SMT so far is Demifiend, who once had every single demon and angels as his slaves and even now have Dante (from Devil May Cry, original version of Dante, which was erased after new version appeared. Lucifer brought Dante back into reality though) as one of his servants (after he Demifiend defeated him in the beginning of the game):

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy3ufqp3l10

  80. Ragnorke December 27, 2014 at 5:21 am -      #180

    On my phone so I can’t respond to everything :

    @wingedlion
    “It varys. Spiderman has both dodged and gotten hit by Electro over their fights. My point is that those plus the other times he got hit by shit that’s slower than light is far more consistent than one feat that may be light speed.”

    Drop this argument. For the love of god I can’t believe you actually said what you just said.
    This is comics.
    Flash is a zillion times faster than light, yet gets hit by people barely FTL. Consistently.
    Superman is a billion times faster than light, yet gets hit by people barely FTL. Consistently.

    Every comic book character in existence that’s FTL, has been hit with slower projectiles and slower characters, than the amount of times they dodge FTL projectiles and ftl characters.
    That’s a fact.
    So this argument isn’t going to get you anywhere.
    Please drop it.

    “Right, but my point is if spiderman has LS reactions he shouldn’t get hit by Morlun at all.”

    And flash shouldn’t get hit by anything in the universe. But he does. Consistently.
    If youv read a single comic in your life, you’d know your point here is stupid as fuck.

  81. Ragnorke December 27, 2014 at 5:49 am -      #181

    @Terror
    “Rag is assuming:
    -That what the villain is saying isn’t hyperbole
    – He is a scientist
    – that precognition > light speed
    – Thor threw his hammer at light speed
    – Spiderman dodging light speed is consistent”

    1. For something to be considered hyperbole, it needs to have a basis of contradiction first.
    You can’t just go around calling everything ever said hyperbole for no reason (as you are now).
    I’m not “assuming” that it’s not hyperbole. Because the term hyperbole is the positive here. I’m assuming a positive addition doesn’t exist, meaning the assumption is on your part, not mine.

    2. He was a scientist. That’s not an assumption.
    Spiderman is a scientist too btw.

    3. Science says precognition > lightspeed reaction.
    I’ll prove it to you when I get back. But ten bucks says you won’t have any idea how to follow my calcs and argue anyways.

    4. What does Thor have to do with this?
    That’s a different feat entirely.
    What does that feat have to do with the Occams Razors assumptions?
    Do you not understand the concept of Occams Razor?

    5. I never said spiderman dodging lightspeed is consistent.
    It doesn’t need to be.
    No comic character in existence consistently blocks ftl attacks. Yet hundreds of characters are Ftl anyways.
    And… Umm… What does this have to do with the assumptions of Occam Razor? As far as THAT feat is concerned, it was consistent.

    “We (anyone arguing against it) are assuming:
    – The light speed claim is hyperbole
    – Cyclop’s eye beams aren’t light speed
    – that the villain isn’t a scientist”

    1. Which is one assumption. Whereas I have zero.

    2. What does cyclops beams have to do with this?
    Different feat entirely.
    You officially have NO IDEA what Occams Razor means. Congrats.
    And for the record, his beams ARE the speed of light, and spiderman DID consistently dodge them. Lol.

    3. But he is… And so is spiderman.
    /
    In the end of the day, you’re ASSUMING a statement is false, despite spiderman having similar showings elsewhere.
    Your argument is invalid, and you don’t have the slightest idea what Occams Razor is.
    You’re so cute when you try debating with the big boys.

  82. Ragnorke December 27, 2014 at 6:10 am -      #182

    @CH1
    “Was there seriously a conversation of whether or not old comics can be used or not? I’d understand if this was DC, but it’s Marvel. There really shouldn’t be any debate about it…”

    Yea… It happened in CFT Lost as well.
    People that don’t know jack shit about comics are so frustrating to debate against.

    @Numinous One
    “Um, what the hell? If we operated by that principle, then we wouldn’t have arguments. There is no such thing as a fact without a shadow of doubt,”

    ^ this.

    @Wingedlion
    “If he finds some narration or reliable source that confirms their light-speed, it’s impossible to doubt it.”

    Narration has been consistently just as Hyperbolic and wrong as character statements.
    How can you say one of them is never proof, and that the other is always proof without a doubt?
    I can’t be the only one that thinks what you’re saying sounds stupid.

    “It’s not up to me to disprove anything, because Ragnorke has yet to actually provide any evidence to his claim.”

    Let’s take baby steps:
    1. The term Hyperbole is a positive.
    2. Saying that a positive addition exists in any situation, means the burden of proof is on you to justify the addition of that positive.
    3. I’m saying that the positive doesn’t exist, and am taking the statement for what it is at face value… Since spiderman already has similar showings elsewhere.
    4. I do NOT need to prove/justify the LACK of hyperbole. Kapeesh?

    You’r assuming it’s hyperbole. I have no assumptions whatsoever.

    I’m not saying claims are never hyperbole. They can be, IF you have reason to think so.
    You need to give reason.
    Forexample, if it’s ridiculously more powerful than what the character otherwise does.
    That isn’t the case here, spiderman has dodged light speed attacks more than once. And CONSISTENTLY dodges 1/3rd the speed of light attacks like they’re nothing.

  83. Ragnorke December 27, 2014 at 6:21 am -      #183

    @pimp
    “Thats not a reaction feat of any sort, that is just a guy that doesn’t want to die from a frickin laser beam.”

    What’s your point…?
    He dodged light speed attacks didn’t he?
    I NEVER said it was due to reaction time alone. I have specified that it isnt a reaction feat, and that it was due to precognition.

    The point remains, he can still dodge them.
    Which wingedlion and terror are arguing against for some reason, because apparently they don’t understand the concepts of Hyperbole & Occams Razor properly.
    And have probably never touched a comic before from the looks of it.

  84. Rookie December 27, 2014 at 6:24 am -      #184

    @Ragnorke

    Can you give advice about something when you will have time? I am trying to figure if Shrike (his feats: forums.spacebattles.com/threads/the-flash-dc-comics-vs-the-shrike.203267/page-3 ) could be a good candidate for my team of heroes from novels (I am planning to put them against Justice League). Would Shrike be a good opponent for Flash (current version)?

  85. Ragnorke December 27, 2014 at 6:52 am -      #185

    @Rookie
    I can tell you right off the bat that NO ONE is a good opponent for flash.
    Unless you use new52.

    @Malenfant
    “You mean pre-crisis? Post-Crisis is a far cry from some of the silliness TARDI tend to show.”

    Post-crises superman lifted the weight of the multiverse, he also lifted the weight of all eternity.
    He moved stars from one galaxy to another with his bare hands.
    He lifted a blackhole.
    He survived being sandwiched between new Genises and Apocolypse, the impact caused both planets to totally shatter. (new Genises & Apocolypse are both bigger than a hyperion star… Billions of times bigger than our sun)

  86. The Terror December 27, 2014 at 6:52 am -      #186

    “I’m not “assuming” that it’s not hyperbole. Because the term hyperbole is the positive here. I’m assuming a positive addition doesn’t exist, meaning the assumption is on your part, not mine.”

    “exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.” This is what a hyperbole means. You are assuming it is not a hyperbole which is a positive cause those lasers would then be light speed. The assumption is on your side, not mine.

    ” He was a scientist. That’s not an assumption.
    Spiderman is a scientist too btw.”
    With this one line, ” (who appears to be a clever scientist) “, you doomed yourself to me saying it. You didn’t tell me he was one you just said he looks like one.

    “Science says precognition > lightspeed reaction.
    I’ll prove it to you when I get back. But ten bucks says you won’t have any idea how to follow my calcs and argue anyways.”
    I said light speed not light speed reaction. You shouldn’t shove words in someone’s mouth. It doesn’t make you look good.

    “What does Thor have to do with this?
    That’s a different feat entirely.
    What does that feat have to do with the Occams Razors assumptions?
    Do you not understand the concept of Occams Razor?”
    Your trying to prove Spiderman dodged something the speed of light.

    “I never said spiderman dodging lightspeed is consistent.
    It doesn’t need to be.”
    Yes it does or needs an explanation. Superman not beating on the villain and saving the day. He doesn’t want to hurt civilians. Flash actually gets hit and it is not by Zoom. He was standing around joking on someone. Spiderman gets hit by laser. Cause he can’t dodge an actual laser.

    “Which is one assumption. Whereas I have zero.”
    Don’t flatter yourself. Also again by your logic that assumption does not exist.

    “his beams ARE the speed of light, and spiderman DID consistently dodge them”
    scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/17580/how-can-cyclops-miss-with-his-optic-blast

    ” But he is… And so is spiderman.”
    What I said before about this one.

  87. Rookie December 27, 2014 at 7:02 am -      #187

    @Ragnorke

    “I can tell you right off the bat that NO ONE is a good opponent for flash.”

    Check Shrike feats when you will have time. Maybe this will change your opinion.

    “Unless you use new52.”

    If this will make it more fair, I will use him, why not? But I would prefer to hear your opinion about Shrike first. I don’t read much comics, so I don’t want to make a huge stomp because of my lack of knowledge.

  88. The Terror December 27, 2014 at 7:09 am -      #188

    @Rookie
    Put Zetta in it if you don’t have someone from Disgaea in it already.

  89. Ragnorke December 27, 2014 at 7:16 am -      #189

    @Terror
    ““exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.” This is what a hyperbole means. You are assuming it is not a hyperbole which is a positive cause those lasers would then be light speed. The assumption is on your side, not mine.”

    Assuming something isn’t Hyperbole isn’t postive cause, it’s negative cause.
    You’re asking me to prove the lack of something.
    That’s a fallacy.

    YOU need to give evidence as to WHY anyone should CONSIDER it as Hyperbole.
    Hyperbole is the positive here, not the lack of Hyperbole.

    “you doomed yourself to me saying it. You didn’t tell me he was one you just said he looks like one.”

    Well, he was one.
    He invented those light beams himself.

    “I said light speed not light speed reaction. You shouldn’t shove words in someone’s mouth. It doesn’t make you look good.”

    YOU said that i’m assuming precog is > lightspeed, despite me never having said that. I said precog is > light speed REACTION.
    So who’s shoving words in who’s mouth?
    The irony is strong in you.

    “Your trying to prove Spiderman dodged something the speed of light.”

    We’re using a specific feat to discuss that. Occams Razor is being used on that specific feat, and all the assumptions being made on that specific feat.
    Yet you brought up an entirely unrelated feat… and used it as an assumption for Occams Razor… Which is being used for a different feat…
    Makes you seem like an idiot.

    ” Superman not beating on the villain and saving the day. He doesn’t want to hurt civilians. Flash actually gets hit and it is not by Zoom. He was standing around joking on someone.”

    Just gtfo.
    Superman has gotten his shit kicked in space, by people not nearly as fast as him.
    Flash has gotten his shit kicked around, even when he was pissed off and wasn’t fooling around.
    NO ONE consistently dodges light speed attacks.
    Even the fastest characters in fiction, get hit by slow bullshit more often than they dodge light speed attacks.

    But if they’v proven they can dodge it more than 2 or 3 times, that’s all the evidence i need.
    Your opinion is irrelevant at this point.

    “Spiderman gets hit by laser. Cause he can’t dodge an actual laser.”

    He dodged an amped Cyclops no problem, consistently, multiple times, who has light speed blasts.
    So stfu now please. You’re making yourself sound stupid.

    “Don’t flatter yourself.”

    Knowing how to use Occams Razor properly qualifies as flattering myself?
    You must have very low standards.

    “scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/17580/how-can-cyclops-miss-with-his-optic-blast”

    What was the point of posting this…?
    The only thing it says is that Scott has a mental delay. Not that his Optic Blasts aren’t light speed.
    Worth noting that Spiderman dodged blasts from PHOENIX CYCLOPS, who was FTL himself, and didn’t have that mental delay.
    The issue doesn’t apply.

  90. Rookie December 27, 2014 at 7:17 am -      #190

    @The Terror

    “Put Zetta in it if you don’t have someone from Disgaea in it already.”

    He is not from the novels, and did you saw what Darkdeath Evilman (who is much weaker than Zetta) did?

  91. Ragnorke December 27, 2014 at 7:30 am -      #191

    Spiderman dodged multiple blasts from Cyclopses light speed beams.

    Spiderman casually dodges electros blasts which are 1/3rd the speed of light, and usually only gets hit when he fucks up.

    Spiderman dodged multiple blasts from a character “claiming” his lasers were the speed of light.

    Spiderman tangoed with Thor, who has FTL speed & reactions.
    You could argue he didn’t want to use his FTL speed on a mortal, but you can’t control your reaction times.

    Spiderman speedblitsed Ironman (who has lightspeed reaction time, and moves at around mach 40), and dodged his repulsor beams (which are the speed of light)

    …Why is there any doubt that Spidermans precog is good enough to allow him to dodge things at the speed of light?

    ANY neutral debater would qualify even half the things mentioned as “sufficient” evidence.
    Wingedlion & Terror are only debating against spiderman for the heck of debating against him at this point, and have no relevant arguments at all.

  92. The Terror December 27, 2014 at 7:44 am -      #192

    @Rookie
    I honestly forgot about him.

    @Ragnork
    “YOU need to give evidence as to WHY anyone should CONSIDER it as Hyperbole.
    Hyperbole is the positive here, not the lack of Hyperbole.”
    The lack of a hyperbole is good thing so I don’t understand why it would be negative.

    “YOU said that i’m assuming precog is > lightspeed, despite me never having said that. I said precog is > light speed REACTION.
    So who’s shoving words in who’s mouth?”
    You were still technically shoving words in my mouth but okay.

    “Superman has gotten his shit kicked in space, by people not nearly as fast as him.”
    There is probably for it.

    “Flash has gotten his shit kicked around, even when he was pissed off and wasn’t fooling around.”
    By someone close to his speed, prep, hax, or PIS.

    “He dodged an amped Cyclops no problem, consistently, multiple times, who has light speed blasts.”
    Look at the link.

    “Worth noting that Spiderman dodged blasts from PHOENIX CYCLOPS, who was FTL himself, and didn’t have that mental delay.
    The issue doesn’t apply.”
    Cyclops has spacial awareness (iirc) and had ftl flight, so is this another case of SMvFL or just straight up PIS?

  93. The Terror December 27, 2014 at 7:45 am -      #193

    “…Why is there any doubt that Spidermans precog is good enough to allow him to dodge things at the speed of light?”
    Again it is a danger sense.

  94. Ragnorke December 27, 2014 at 9:14 am -      #194

    @Terror
    “The lack of a hyperbole is good thing so I don’t understand why it would be negative.”

    Positive & Negative debating additions have nothing to do with whether it’s a “good” thing or a “bad” thing.
    Good & Bad are subjective, and have different meanings from different perspectives. What are you, five?
    Calling something Hyperbole is a positive claim on your part, and thus needs to be supported.
    Asking me to prove the lack of Hyperbole is asking me to prove a negative, which is a debating fallacy.

    “There is probably for it.”

    There is a reason. It’s because it’s a fucking comic book, and writers need to write interesting stories, and ignore/forget about what the character is capable of.

    Superman gets beaten up by slow things more often than he dodges FTL things. But since when is that proof of Superman not being FTL?
    Spiderman gets beaten by slow things more often than he dodges light speed things. But that isn’t evidence enough to ignore all the times that he HAS dodged them.

    The fact of the matter is that Spiderman always holds back.
    He lifted a fucking skyscraper building with his bare hands.
    His punch should turn humans into a pile of goo on a near atomic level.
    But how often do you see that happen? Never, caus peter holds back.

    We have evidence of him being alot more powerful than he shows himself to be, and that’s proven by his various feats against his fellow Avengers & X-men.

    “By someone close to his speed, prep, hax, or PIS.”

    But it still happens more times than we see him dodge FTL things.
    So how is Spidermans case any different?

    “Look at the link.”

    I already countered it. Provide something useful or stfu.

    “so is this another case of SMvFL or just straight up PIS?”

    There’s currently FIVE potential light dodging feats that Spiderman has. (that have been posted. Arguably over a dozen throughout his history)
    Calling all of them PiS, and trying your best to counter each and every one of them makes you look like an idiot.
    Just accept it for what it is, instead of forcing yourself to continue a losing debate.

    “Again it is a danger sense.”

    He says he knows exactly where Wolverine & Nightcrawler are going to attack him, before they attack.
    Stop calling it a fucking “danger sense”, when it’s clearly alot more than that.

  95. Friendlysociopath December 27, 2014 at 9:15 am -      #195

    For those of you who wanted a link- episode 1 is up
    www.factpiletopia.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=148601

    Pretty much anything in *asterisks* is something I’m unsure about.

  96. Friendlysociopath December 27, 2014 at 9:27 am -      #196

    Alright, note to self- don’t edit even one word or it’ll go back under moderation.

  97. Ragnorke December 27, 2014 at 9:31 am -      #197

    Spider Sense definition: “It appears to be a simultaneous clairvoyant response to a wide variety of phenomena (everything from falling safes to speeding bullets to thrown punches), which has given several hundredths of a second warning, which is sufficient time for his reflexes to allow him to avoid injury. The sense also can create a general response on the order of several minutes.
    Spider-Man’s fighting style incorporates the advantage that his “spider-sense” provides him. His body begins to produce more adrenaline after the sense is triggered, an extension of the ‘fight or flight syndrome.’ Even when he does not have the use of his eyes Spider-Man can still use his Spider Sense in a similar fashion to Daredevil’s Radar Sense to help him see by sensing the direction the danger is coming from”

    Call it just a danger sense one more time. I dare you. I double dare you muthafucka.

  98. The Terror December 27, 2014 at 9:39 am -      #198

    “Spiderman casually dodges electros blasts which are 1/3rd the speed of light, and usually only gets hit when he fucks up.”
    Spiderman gets tagged multiple times by Electro in comics.
    12:49
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=eetDR8hE-EE
    www.comicsrecommended.com/images/fourteen/spider-man-knights-003-hit.jpg
    upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/35/Electro.png
    www.comicsrecommended.com/images/fourteen/spider-man-knights-003-tough.jpg

    “Spiderman tangoed with Thor, who has FTL speed & reactions.
    You could argue he didn’t want to use his FTL speed on a mortal, but you can’t control your reaction times”
    Then how does Thor get hit? He can move fast enough to dodge him so the only reasons I can think of is CIS or PIS is preventing him from dodging .

    “Spiderman speedblitsed Ironman (who has lightspeed reaction time, and moves at around mach 40), and dodged his repulsor beams (which are the speed of light)”
    You do know that Tony’s stats mostly depend on his armor so show me a scan and what armor.

    “…Why is there any doubt that Spidermans precog is good enough to allow him to dodge things at the speed of light?”
    Danger sense. It tells him where it is coming from and how dangerous it is. It doesn’t tell him what kinda danger it is or how it is gonna happen.

  99. The Terror December 27, 2014 at 9:41 am -      #199

    “Call it just a danger sense one more time. I dare you. I double dare you muthafucka.”
    Danger sense, danger sense, danger sense, danger sense, and danger sense.

    @Friendly
    It says it doesn’t exist.

  100. Ragnorke December 27, 2014 at 9:45 am -      #200

    “Spiderman gets tagged multiple times by Electro in comics.”

    So?
    He dodges about 20 for each time he gets hit. And you know that damn well.
    He gets hit when he fucks up, because he isn’t perfect, and when the plot demands it.

    “You do know that Tony’s stats mostly depend on his armor so show me a scan and what armor.”

    I love the fact that you’re trying to use the “You do know that…” thing on me.
    How many comics have you read in your life?

    Tony’s reaction time has nothing to do with his armor.
    The base of every armor is surgically implemented in his nervous system.
    He has FTL reaction times with any armor. Although the armors don’t always keep up with it.

    Also, that was his standard armor which he used pre-Marvel Now series started. Which is Mach 40+

    “Danger sense. It tells him where it is coming from and how dangerous it is. It doesn’t tell him what kinda danger it is or how it is gonna happen.”

    It does tell him what kind of danger actually, since he knew when Wolverine was going to hit him, and when Nightcrawler was going to hit him, since he talked to each of them specifically one at a time.
    You’re just denying facts now.

    And anyways, why does it need to be that specific?
    It gives him a warning of the direction, that’s more than enough to dodge it.

    “He can move fast enough to dodge him so the only reasons I can think of is CIS or PIS is preventing him from dodging .”

    YAY. YOU WIN A MILLION BUCKS. AND A COOKIE. AND A MEDAL.
    YOU FINALLY GET IT.
    HURRAY.
    Characters have fucking PiS & CiS stopping them from dodging things, even if they’re proven to be faster.
    Now stop being a fucking hypocrite and drop this silly ass argument that you’re failing miserably at.

    “Danger sense, danger sense, danger sense, danger sense, and danger sense.”

    you totally let the Pulp Fiction reference fly by you.
    Seriously, how old are you?

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