Final Fantasy 4 Vs World of Warcraft

Final Fantasy 4 Vs World of Warcraft

Suggested by Rookie

Final Fantasy 4 goes up against World of Warcraft.

Scenario 1: Only main worlds (Moon and Earth in FF case and Azeroth in WoW case) are fighting.

WoW is right after invasion of the Burning Legion.

Creator from FF 4 replaced with Exdeath (pre-Void) to make match more fair.

Scenario 2: All out war.

What transpires?

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191 Comments on "Final Fantasy 4 Vs World of Warcraft"

  1. pimpmage December 28, 2014 at 7:40 am -      #1

    We should completely disable time manipulation. Wow has a faction of dragons devoted to time travel.

  2. Ragnorke December 28, 2014 at 8:24 am -      #2

    I havn’t played Final Fantasy 4, so i can’t say much there.
    But i had my Warcraft 3 & WoW phase.
    So maybe i can contribute.

    I have to say, the time-line you picked for Azeroth isn’t really clear.

    The burning legions invasion began in Warcraft 3. pre-FT dlc… and was temporarily subdued afaik.
    However WoW (which takes place shortly after Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne) also had it’s own expansion pack called the “Burning Crusade”, which reintroduced the Burning Legions.

  3. Rookie December 28, 2014 at 8:36 am -      #3

    Thanks Admin!

    @pimpmage

    “We should completely disable time manipulation. Wow has a faction of dragons devoted to time travel.”

    We have time till the post 50, so I’l wait before banning time-travel. Those time dragons never used their powers to stop events of Warcraft 3 for example.
    @Ragnorke

    “I have to say, the time-line you picked for Azeroth isn’t really clear.”

    Sorry about that. WoW world is right after Arthas helped summoned Burning Legion and Archimonde in Warcraft 3, right before this event: www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3BxvHhz4XQ . That way we have most of the important characters from WoW still alive and available.

    “I havn’t played Final Fantasy 4, so i can’t say much there.”

    Here’s the event right at the beginning of the game (right after the first boss) to give you the idea about main heroes (and villains) powers and durability (from 12:00):

  4. Ragnorke December 28, 2014 at 8:48 am -      #4

    www.wowwiki.com/Medivh
    The Eternal Prophet.
    Probably the most powerful characters in the series, exluding the Old Gods & Titan powered dragons.
    Deathwing himself is scared shitless of Medivh, and says he would never want to face him.

    Medivh went toe-to-toe with Sargeras (the source of all evil) himself back in the day, and their fight corrupted the entire area for centuries to come.

    www.wowwiki.com/Sargeras
    The embodiment of evil.
    Sargeras himself never set foot in Azeroth, and that all of his appearances were merely Avatars.
    But the Avatars were “hot” enough to notice a 50 degree temperature increase a thousand miles away.
    He can use telekinesis, Shadow Words (which can instantly do things like stun you), & devour souls.

    www.wowwiki.com/The_Lich_King
    Most of you already know Arthus.

    www.wowwiki.com/Deathwing
    Forged by the combined aspects of all the Old Dragons.
    His awakening caused the Shattering. He flies around burning everything he sees, yatta yatta your usual dragon bullshit.
    Probably worth noting that he has Adamantium forged armor.

    www.wowwiki.com/Malygos
    Another one of the Old Dragons.
    He has devastating Arcane knowledge, but not too many feats that i recall.

  5. Rookie December 28, 2014 at 8:54 am -      #5

    finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Giant_of_Babil
    Giant of Babil.
    His power (in original):

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq6k1gHh_2k

    In DS remake:

  6. pimpmage December 28, 2014 at 8:56 am -      #6

    “Those time dragons never used their powers to stop events of Warcraft 3 for example.”

    Another faction did though. The time dragons sent players back in three occasions to stop people messing with time in the form of dungeon instances. Also, there is the latest wow expansion that takes place before warcraft 3 due to a rogue time Dragon. I seriously think you need to reconsider.

  7. Rookie December 28, 2014 at 8:58 am -      #7

    @pimpmage

    ” I seriously think you need to reconsider.”

    Ok, you could be right and I am probably wrong. Better be safe about this. Time-travel not allowed.

  8. Ragnorke December 28, 2014 at 9:02 am -      #8

    www.wowwiki.com/Velen
    Prophet of the Draenei
    He’s the nemises of Kil’Jaeden (leader of the burning legion), and the most powerful healer in all of Azeroth and beyond.

    www.wowwiki.com/Kil'jaeden
    Supreme commander of the Burning Legions
    He’s an Eredar, who are vastly superior to any race in Azeroth.
    He can shapeshift into multiple different forms, and his body is returned to the Twisted Nether whenever “killed”
    He enslaved all the Dread-Lords, and is called the most powerful demon in existence.

    www.wowwiki.com/Archimonde
    Another Eredar.
    Edit: he’s dead now, so nvm that.

    www.wowwiki.com/Lord_Jaraxxus
    Another Eredar lord.

  9. Ragnorke December 28, 2014 at 9:05 am -      #9

    www.wowwiki.com/Ragnaros
    www.wowwiki.com/Al'Akir

    The elemental Lords of Fire & Air.
    They can only be killed in their own elemental planes, where they’re ridiculously powerful.

    www.wowwiki.com/Illidan_Stormrage
    He got his ass handed to him by Arthas, so eh.
    He’s still worth mentioning, since he could take out Demon Lords even before he got amped.

  10. pimpmage December 28, 2014 at 9:08 am -      #10

    So, now thats cleared up, let’s talk about the sha. The entire world event in the previous wow expansion is still primed to take place even with the current time set on the wow verse. The sha are Kinda like 40k’s chaos. They corrupt people any twist their emotions and desires to the extreme.

    Are morals off?

  11. Friendlysociopath December 28, 2014 at 9:16 am -      #11

    I’m guessing WoW is going to have a numbers advantage. The Burning Legion is undead right?
    Why is Exdeath here? Wouldn’t you want a FF4 villain?

  12. Rookie December 28, 2014 at 9:27 am -      #12

    @Friendlysociopath

    “Why is Exdeath here?”

    Creator was too powerfull for scenario 1, I have to find someone to replace him.

    Archfiends: finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Archfiends

  13. Ragnorke December 28, 2014 at 9:30 am -      #13

    “I’m guessing WoW is going to have a numbers advantage.”

    WoW has a couple of planets worth of troops. Warcraft-verse has quite a bit of interstellar and interdimensional stuff goin on.

    “The Burning Legion is undead right?”

    Nope.
    Arthas/Lich-King rules the undead.
    Burning Legion is demons & ancient races gathered from across the universe.

  14. Friendlysociopath December 28, 2014 at 9:35 am -      #14

    Creator was too powerfull for scenario 1, I have to find someone to replace him.

    Fair nuff, so, Exdeath destroys Ghido island without any prep or seemingly any effort.

    And Gilgamesh would be present on the battlefield as well, so that wildcard is running around.

    And at the very least Kain, Golbez, and Cecil are bullet timers thanks to Dissidia. You could try to powerscale that to other characters but I wouldn’t go that far without a good bit of proof behind it.

    At least for scenario 1 it’s just one planet…
    Scenario 2 I think FF4 is a goner.

  15. Ragnorke December 28, 2014 at 9:47 am -      #15

    “At least for scenario 1 it’s just one planet…”

    Well a large part of the Burning Legion was already on Azeroth, during the time that was specified.

    However i don’t think they would get the higher Tier Demons, since they usually stay back in the Twisted Nether.
    /
    So there’s atleast 2 Dragons that were still alive (Deathwing & Malygos)

    2 Elemental Lords that can’t be killed. (Ragnoras & Alakir)

    Arthas, and his never ending army of undead.

    Illidan, and his army of Sea Nagas (water dominance) & Blood Elfs (anti-mages)

    A few Dread-Lords, and a portion of the Burning Legion.

    And then all the standard race armies. Many of whom have Champions capable of going toe-to-toe with the mentioned characters.
    Some, like Cenarious, are immortal and what not.

    Oh and Medivh.
    The dude that fought the Avatar of an Old God (that burnt everything in a thousand mile radius) and survived.

  16. The Ultimate Overlord December 28, 2014 at 10:03 am -      #16

    How does WoW deal with instant death?

  17. pimpmage December 28, 2014 at 10:12 am -      #17

    Pandaria is a part of azeroth is it not?

  18. Rookie December 28, 2014 at 10:14 am -      #18

    @pimpmage

    “Pandaria is a part of azeroth is it not?”

    Was it a part of Azeroth prior to Cataclysm? If yes, then why not.

  19. pimpmage December 28, 2014 at 10:31 am -      #19

    I am assuming it has always been a part of warcraft canon. It was only discovered during the MoP era though.

  20. Ragnorke December 28, 2014 at 10:42 am -      #20

    “I am assuming it has always been a part of warcraft canon. It was only discovered during the MoP era though.”

    Some Pandarians were a part of warcraft 3… Implying it was already “discovered”
    They probably just lived isolated lives though.

    On a side note, that was the shittiest expansion to any game ever.
    I feel sorry for anyone that played it for over a week.

  21. Rookie December 28, 2014 at 11:15 am -      #21

    Golbez ( finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Golbez ) survives a meteo and one-shot KO main hero:

  22. Ragnorke December 28, 2014 at 11:59 am -      #22

    Archimond did this in Warcraft 3, right after he was summoned. (wasn’t at full power yet)
    Kil’jaeden is confirmed as a more powerful Eredar Demon Lord.

  23. Kitten Lord December 28, 2014 at 12:04 pm -      #23

    Ime going with Warcraft, the universe throws around high fantasy and magic almost without peer. I have played since the first warcraft but and finished prior to the release of warlords.

    The only confusing part is as some people have said Pandaria plus a load of other things existed even during Warcraft 3 timelinewise, they were just yet to be discovered like the old gods and what not.

  24. Ragnorke December 28, 2014 at 12:05 pm -      #24

    This video shows an average scale of 2 armies. (Humans & Orcs).
    Note they were only humans & orcs from a single city afaik.
    They have plenty of tribes that’re spread out.

  25. Ragnorke December 28, 2014 at 12:10 pm -      #25

    Here’s what Deathwing did:
    Malygos is pretty much an equal. But focuses on Arcane magic & knowledge rather than the fiery destruction of Azeroth.

  26. Ragnorke December 28, 2014 at 12:14 pm -      #26

    A few nice spells/feats that your “average” caster can perform.

  27. Ragnorke December 28, 2014 at 12:16 pm -      #27

    Arthas and his scourge army.
    Looks like hundreds of thousands.

  28. Rookie December 28, 2014 at 12:32 pm -      #28

    Example of FF4 bombs (from 3:00):

  29. Rookie December 28, 2014 at 12:34 pm -      #29

    Dwarves tanks fight evenly against these airships. Firepower and durability for airships:

  30. Rookie December 28, 2014 at 12:35 pm -      #30

    Exdeath speed feats:

  31. Ragnorke December 28, 2014 at 12:39 pm -      #31

    @Rookie
    The airships didn’t really break the castle walls though…

    Any counter to Kil’Jaedan insta-destroying all the cities?
    Or Arthus’ Resurrecting army?
    Or Deathwing causing another cataclysm?

    Or how they plan on killing the Elemental Lords?

    Or how they can deal with thousands of mages that insta-burn everything around them to ashes, or turn their enemies into Sheep?

    The only advantage i think FF has is someone saying they can bullet time…

  32. Rookie December 28, 2014 at 12:51 pm -      #32

    @Ragnorke

    “The airships didn’t really break the castle walls though…”

    Durability of the buildings and stuff (like armor, weapons and so on) are pretty good in FF4, probably because magic is common. Remember that Titan hit? It didn’t even break armor of main heroes.
    And besides, those airships used Cid’s bombs. You can clearly see how good is his stuff in video above.

    Exdeath destroyed island:

  33. Ragnorke December 28, 2014 at 1:16 pm -      #33

    “Exdeath destroyed island:”

    Oh snap.
    Is there any mention on how he performed the feat?
    Or how big that island was?

  34. Rookie December 28, 2014 at 1:57 pm -      #34

    @Ragnorke

    “Oh snap.
    Is there any mention on how he performed the feat?
    Or how big that island was?”

    Quake spell and some spell to see far away places. He can cast them rather fast, Exdeath himself was on the other side of the planet when he cast these spells.
    As for how big was island… that’s harder.
    We can only see this island in the video above and it’s hard to tell how big it was.

  35. The Ultimate Overlord December 28, 2014 at 2:03 pm -      #35

    List of spells: finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Final_Fantasy_IV_Spells

  36. Zazax December 28, 2014 at 2:23 pm -      #36

    So… any mention of Cecil and Golbez’s sword strikes splitting clouds in the skies above them in the CGI opening of the DS remake yet?
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpVI39Duf7A at about 2:30ish.
    Granted, it’s only an opening cinematic, but still. It’s about the only cinematic we’ve got for FF4, and it’s not out of line with some of the other stuff we see the FF4 main characters do throughout the game anyways (tanking meteor hits, surviving a Fantasy Nuke going off in their hands and a subsequent fall, stopping a giant cannon by clogging it with their body and surviving, and so on).

  37. Ragnorke December 28, 2014 at 2:43 pm -      #37

    “So… any mention of Cecil and Golbez’s sword strikes splitting clouds in the skies above them in the CGI opening of the DS remake yet?”

    Well… I mean… When you compare that to Deathwing causing Earthquakes and splitting the ground across 2 entire continents just by flying past them… It’s really not that impressive.

  38. hermetic_harbinger December 29, 2014 at 1:25 am -      #38

    One thing you got wrong with this is the fact that you’ve got the wrong villain for Final Fantasy 4. Exdeath is Final Fantasy 5, while Zemus/Zeromous is the main villain for Final Fantasy 4/Advance/DS/Complete. In terms of Power he has the ability to manipulate those who posses a malevolent tendencies. My pick in this fight is that Zemus/Zeromous would just use the Tainted Hoarde and turn them against the Alliance thus negating the bonus. Either way if I am overruled I’ll know this is a stomp since you’re putting in a critical/annoying nerf.

  39. Rookie December 29, 2014 at 1:38 am -      #39

    @hermetic_harbinger

    “One thing you got wrong with this is the fact that you’ve got the wrong villain for Final Fantasy 4. Exdeath is Final Fantasy 5, while Zemus/Zeromous is the main villain for Final Fantasy 4/Advance/DS/Complete.”

    Exdeath here is only for scenario 1, since he is replace finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Creator_(The_After_Years) for balance reasons.
    There is two scenarios in this match.

  40. hermetic_harbinger December 29, 2014 at 1:47 am -      #40

    Then your title needs to reflect that you’re using villains for Final Fantasy 4, the original. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_IV

    Which then it would revert to Zemus being the major power in the game next to the main party. Even so, you’re not figuring in Golbez into the picture who will use his Telepathy to control the Hoarde’s more powerful leaders, thus buying enough time to activate the Giant of Babil, while Proto Babil engages the Alliance and Hoarde.

  41. Soulerous December 29, 2014 at 3:16 am -      #41

    Scenario 2: All out war.
    ~
    “Long ago, in a dimension of the cosmos unfathomable to mortal minds, there was born – if such a term can be used for it – a being of such unbelievable power that its very entrance into existence shattered all reality around it.

    Known only as Murmur, it was the essence of sound. And to hear it speak was to know death eternal!

    Existing only for chaos, its slightest whisper meant the destruction of whole worlds!

    Yet still, there were those that would try to worship this mindless being. There were even those more insane who dared to think to control it!

    And lo, how the mighty fell trembling at its feet, fearful that it might direct its words upon them.

    But still did these charlatans, these worshipping pretenders to a non-existent religion, rail against the inevitable in a vain attempt to control their ‘god’. Uncaring, and likely not even noticing them, Murmur yawned and they knew oblivion.

    Yet one somehow managed to survive, and in his insanity found a way to bring Murmur into the world.

    A mortal possessed of arcane and dark knowledge that none could surpass, he devised a method to enhance his summoning through the capture and use of souls untold.

    Whole civilizations were brought to extinction through his soul devices to fuel the ritual through which he and his conspirators would bring Murmur into their world.

    And summon forth Murmur they did.

    Powerful magics of containment and silencing were employed, held together by the constant supply of souls being fed into them. Yet still they could not control the beast, could not bend it to their will.

    These mortals began to devise different strategies, and one after the other they all failed. And in so doing, they weakened the rituals, accidentally giving Murmur the slightest modicum of freedom.

    It was all that was needed.

    Only this book survived the cataclysm that destroyed their world. Those proud and foolish men who thought to control a cosmic being of untold power.

    Would you, the possessor of the codex, do the same?

    Have you devised a foolproof method to summon forth Murmur, or any of the other entities cautiously whispered of in these unhallowed pages?

    We shall see.” -Codex of Blood, in-game book.
    ~
    “In the beginning”… “So far away”… such phrases cannot begin to describe this elemental’s origin. Its existence heralds pure destruction. Worlds shatter and the pieces scatter at its whim. Only the truly mad would think to summon it. Perhaps there is yet time to banish Murmur before it fully enters Outland.” -Official Dungeon Journal.

  42. Kitten Lord December 29, 2014 at 5:00 am -      #42

    And despite all that Murmur was like a low tier boss was he not?

  43. The Ultimate Overlord December 29, 2014 at 5:56 am -      #43

    Does WoW have immunity to instant death?

  44. Ragnorke December 29, 2014 at 6:25 am -      #44

    @overlord
    Depends on the method performed.

    WoW has a crap ton of its own instadeath spells. And I mean the thousands of average mages.

    Death knights and the scourge technically can’t die.

    The demons simply return to their plane, and can return through outworld portals

  45. nsl98 December 29, 2014 at 6:54 am -      #45

    2:26

    Exdeath can light large areas on fire

    m.youtube.com/watch?v=J9UFmbG5Tdw

  46. Ragnorke December 29, 2014 at 7:49 am -      #46

    @nsl98
    Looks like a small forest fire…

  47. nsl98 December 29, 2014 at 7:51 am -      #47

    The over world map makes things look smaller.

    Bah, I demand digitaly remastered versions of all the great FF’s, in the style of Advent Children. Then we get cooler cutscenes.

  48. Ragnorke December 29, 2014 at 7:56 am -      #48

    @nsl98
    I know the overworld makes everything smaller, but it was still just a forest wasn’t it? (sorry I didn’t see the whole video)
    Starting a fire across a forest isn’t impressive by any stretch of the imagination.

  49. Sauroposeidon December 29, 2014 at 8:39 am -      #49

    Nothing gets past Zeromus, the most OP of Final Fantasy bosses. You can’t even touch him with out the right relic apparently, and even then he insta-wiped the heroes, who needed special support to even be able to try to fight him.

    On top of that, as long as there is hatred and evil, Zeromus can be defeated, but not killed. It’s basically a 40k Chaos God that can exist on the physical plane.

    He can create a sort of magical black hole, which immediately nullifies any magical boosting opponents might have, can cast Nuke/Flare, which should be obvious in and of itself what it does, Bio/Virus, which instantly plagues targets, Meteor, which makes you wish he had cast Nuke instead, and of course Big Bang.

    Yes, Big Bang. Zeromus can apparently create a singularity and then smack the entire party with it.

    I don’t know if there’s anything in WoW which can really stand up to him. I just don’t see how even the Dragons could be a challenge to him. Especially with out the crystal, as he is incorporeal both to the physical and the magical by default, making him impossible to harm, while he can still use his abilities.

  50. Ragnorke December 29, 2014 at 9:30 am -      #50

    “You can’t even touch him with out the right relic apparently,”

    WoW has a few hundred characters like this btw.

    ” and even then he insta-wiped the heroes, who needed special support to even be able to try to fight him.”

    The heroes are just weak sauce compared to WoW.

    “Zeromus can be defeated, but not killed. It’s basically a 40k Chaos God that can exist on the physical plane.”

    You mean like every single Demon in WoW?

    ” can cast Nuke/Flare, which should be obvious in and of itself what it does, ”

    Post it’s effectiveness.
    The term “nuke” on its own has no value.

    “Bio/Virus, which instantly plagues targets, ”

    Something hundreds of thousands of Casters in WoW have.
    Also, the Sourge would probably enjoy this.

    ” Meteor, which makes you wish he had cast Nuke instead,”

    Post it.

    “Yes, Big Bang. Zeromus can apparently create a singularity and then smack the entire party with it.”

    The term “Big Bang” has no value, and is a meaningless title.
    Post it.

    “I don’t know if there’s anything in WoW which can really stand up to him. I just don’t see how even the Dragons could be a challenge to him.”

    You mean the Dragon that shattered 2 continents by just flying over them?
    Yep, i’m sure he can’t stand up to him at all.
    *note the sarcasm*

    “Especially with out the crystal, as he is incorporeal both to the physical and the magical by default, making him impossible to harm”

    ^ biggest load of NLF ever.

    He is immune to physical & magical harm caused to him by the weak ass FF heroes.
    That doesn’t prove he’s immune to all physical & magical harm from other Fictions.

    Post the most powerful Magical & Physical attack that he tanked.
    We assume that’s his limit.

  51. Ragnorke December 29, 2014 at 9:38 am -      #51

    Some BankGambling Rules regarding him being Immune:

    “Examples of this are Superman’s weakness to Kryptonite, and Sauron’s Ring of Power being unmade only by the elements that made it (Mount Doom). In these situations, certain elements may be compatible with similar items from other franchises/universes. However, said exclusive elements will be made available in the neutral arena”

    “This is a phenomena associated with elements that by being poorly understood are erroneously extrapolated to infinity. While not a rule in of itself, BankGambling does not recognize a No Limit element ”

    Doesn’t matter what Final Fantasy says.
    We are not going to assume his physical & magical immunity is “limitless” or “infinite”.
    Its limit is what can be proven. Nothing more.

  52. Neon Lord December 29, 2014 at 9:46 am -      #52

    How is everything in WoW not blown up already with all this high-tier stuff being thrown around willy-nilly?

  53. Ragnorke December 29, 2014 at 9:52 am -      #53

    @Neon Lord
    “How is everything in WoW not blown up already with all this high-tier stuff being thrown around willy-nilly?”

    Most of the high-tier things plot against each other, and ignore the civilian peasants.

    Also, everything in WoW DID blow up in a sense, during the Cataclysm.

    The Demons are usually trapped in a different realm and can’t enter Azeroth.
    But the time chosen for this match is during the invasion.
    So all the Demons are already there.

    Also, the millions of “heroes” in WoW help keep the evil at bay.
    Away from their towns at least.

    And finally, many of the High-Tier things, such as Medivh, Malygos, Ragnoras, & Aliakir aren’t “evil” or “good”. They simply exist, and don’t wish to disturb or be disturbed.
    Medivh acts as a Prophet for the civilized races, but doesn’t directly get involved… Since his last fight with Sargerous didn’t end well for Azeroth.
    Malygos spends his time studying Arcane.
    Ragnoras & Alakir are just embodiments of Elementals.

  54. wingedlion December 29, 2014 at 11:05 am -      #54

    “Post the most powerful Magical & Physical attack that he tanked.
    We assume that’s his limit.”

    ….You know that being incorporeal has nothing to do with tanking shit, right?
    Attacks just go right through you.

  55. pimpmage December 29, 2014 at 11:09 am -      #55

    How come no one had brought up
    [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]
    yet?

  56. Soulerous December 29, 2014 at 11:19 am -      #56

    @Kitten Lord- “And despite all that Murmur was like a low tier boss was he not?”
    ~
    Yes, because he was only partially summoned. As the Dungeon Journal says, “Perhaps there is yet time to banish Murmur before it fully enters Outland.” If it had fully entered, Outland would be completely gone.
    ~
    @Wingedlion- “You know that being incorporeal has nothing to do with tanking shit, right?
    Attacks just go right through you.

    ~
    Magic in Warcraft can easily affect incorporeal beings. Here’s a magic weapon example followed by a direct spell example:
    ~
    “The runespear was blessed by a shaman, as all Cairne’s weapons were; if it encountered even a ghost, it would do harm.” -The Shattering, page 20.
    ~
    “Putting aside his disgust, he pushed deeper into the disk. Through his highly-trained senses, he located the spell’s nexus. The druid began trying to unravel it—
    A jolt like a thousand bolts of lightning instantly ravaged his ethereal form, almost tearing it to insubstantial shreds. Malfurion silently screamed. He looked for aid from Ysera, but to his horror she did not seem to note his agony.
    But another did.
    He did not look directly at the night elf, but his thoughts practically barreled over the stricken druid. In an instant, the madness of the Dragon Soul’s creator became all too clear.
    So! Neltharion roared even though on the mortal plane he continued speaking so politely and amiably with the others. You try to steal my glorious Dragon Soul!
    A monstrous, invisible force compressed Malfurion from all sides. At first he stared in fear as his body contorted. Then he realized that the image he had of himself in his present state was just that—an image. Neltharion could have stretched him into a thin string and it would not have much affected the druid’s health. That was not what the Earth Warder intended; he sought to crush Malfurion into a magical prison, preventing the intruder from giving any warning or touching the disk again.” -The Demon Soul, pages 205-206.
    ~
    We’d need more info on Zeremus being incorporeal to magic.

  57. wingedlion December 29, 2014 at 11:27 am -      #57

    “Magic in Warcraft can easily affect incorporeal beings. Here’s a magic weapon example followed by a direct spell example:”

    Fair enough.

  58. Sauroposeidon December 29, 2014 at 1:35 pm -      #58

    “He is immune to physical & magical harm caused to him by the weak ass FF heroes.
    That doesn’t prove he’s immune to all physical & magical harm from other Fictions.”

    He’s not immune. He doesn’t tank it. He can’t be hit by it. The only result we ever see is him being healed by attempts to hurt him, actually, during the Golbez/Fusoya battle, and if I recall, at least on the SNES, your party’s attacks either deal 0 damage or miss. There is a distinct difference between tanking and not being hit. He is incorporeal in both the magical and physical realm or some shit. You NEED the crystal to hurt him.

    “The heroes are just weak sauce compared to WoW.”

    Except they’re not. They’re fairly high tier by WoW standards.

    “You mean like every single Demon in WoW?”

    No, they’re not.

    “Post it’s effectiveness.
    The term “nuke” on its own has no value.”

    That means it’s a nuclear blast. Although I often felt it was out of place as it’s considered stronger than Titan’s earthquake, which rips entire mountain ranges apart, which I would expect to be stronger than most nukes.

    It’s never been used outside of battle.

    “Something hundreds of thousands of Casters in WoW have.
    Also, the Sourge would probably enjoy this.”

    The Scourge would. It heals undead. On non-undead, Zeromus can cast it on multiple opponents.

    “Post it.”

    You have zero experience with Final Fantasy? How can you have made claims previously that FF Heroes are “weak ass” when you don’t even know what kind of bosses they’re fighting? Coming from a stance of complete ignorance and yet knowing exactly how strong something is seems impossible to do to me. I would suggest you completely revise your approach. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen you try to come off as knowing a lot about the side you aren’t favoring and then turning around and acting like you know nothing or accidentally revealing such. It’s a terrible approach which makes you and your arguments look weak. I am telling you this as a favor. You should no longer continue with this tactic. Zeromus is well known to have Meteo. Any basic search for him or videos of him reveal this.

    “The term “Big Bang” has no value, and is a meaningless title.
    Post it.”

    Names are not meaningless, and again, you speak as if you know a lot about this game, and then respond with post it, as if you don’t.. which is it?

    He opens with it at 6:50 once the final battle begins.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=83vCkplpsMw

    “You mean the Dragon that shattered 2 continents by just flying over them?
    Yep, i’m sure he can’t stand up to him at all.”

    I don’t think that stands up to a boss that throws around a singularity. We’re dealing with heroes who, early on, were surviving magical attacks causing the same kind of devastation that we saw during the cataclysm.

    “Post the most powerful Magical & Physical attack that he tanked.
    We assume that’s his limit.”

    That’s not how it works. We don’t assume that is a character’s limit. We don’t debate past it because there’s no way of knowing.

  59. Rookie December 29, 2014 at 1:39 pm -      #59

    @Sauroposeidon

    Spoilers about Zeromus

    It seems that Zeromus actually came back now and won (he captured Moon, although it may be just his avatar for now). Here’s his avatar came into reality and start to warping moon in an instant (as well as defeating Golbez and Fusoya once more):

  60. Sauroposeidon December 29, 2014 at 1:41 pm -      #60

    “We’d need more info on Zeremus being incorporeal to magic.”

    Almost your entire party uses magic attacks but can’t touch Zeromus with out the crystal.

  61. Rookie December 29, 2014 at 1:58 pm -      #61

    @Ragnorke

    “You mean the Dragon that shattered 2 continents by just flying over them?
    Yep, i’m sure he can’t stand up to him at all.”

    Isn’t Deathwing can do it mostly because of his control over Earth element?

  62. Rookie December 29, 2014 at 2:23 pm -      #62

    Here avatar of Zeromus moves moon (from 12:53) with… I dunno, TK perhaps:

  63. Ragnorke December 29, 2014 at 2:25 pm -      #63

    “He can’t be hit by it. ”

    Saying he can’t be hit by any magic is bullshit.
    You can say someone can’t be hit by physical things, sure, makes sense.
    But NO character can be incorpreal to ALL magic in ALL fiction.
    Considering magic can literally be anything.

    Also, wow has spells that specifically attack incorpreal things.
    EC makes it apply in this situation.

    “You NEED the crystal to hurt him.”

    Then WoW gets one, according to the rules.
    Or they get to use any of their existing crystals.

    “No, they’re not”

    Yes, they are.
    Demons return to the twisted nether when “killed” in azeroth.

    “That means it’s a nuclear blast.”

    As someone that has studied nuclear physics, that isn’t saying much.
    Post it ffs.

    “it’s considered stronger than Titan’s earthquake, which rips entire mountain ranges apart, ”

    Im getting tired of saying this: post it.

    “Zeromus is well known to have Meteo. Any basic search for him or videos of him reveal this.”

    If you aren’t going to post it, and are going to continue mentioning it like it means something… Just get the fuck off BankGambling.
    Burden of proof is on you, I’m waiting.

    “Names are not meaningless, and again, you speak as if you know a lot about this game”

    Did the “big bang” evaporate every particle in a zillion light year radius?
    No?
    Than the name is a meaningless title, and you know it.

    “I don’t think that stands up to a boss that throws around a singularity.”

    You’r throwing around these words as if they mean something. They don’t.
    Nuclear blasts, singularitys, even blackholes… They can fluctuate a million fold, from affecting single particles to being interstellar.
    The word on its own proves literally nothing.
    It’s effectiveness HAS to be proven, otherwise it’s no more meaningful than saying “he has a projectile attack”
    How dense Is the projectile? How fast is it?

  64. Rookie December 29, 2014 at 2:30 pm -      #64

    @Ragnorke

    “If you aren’t going to post it, and are going to continue mentioning it like it means something… Just get the fuck off BankGambling.
    Burden of proof is on you, I’m waiting.”

    Umhm, Ragnorke, Sauroposeidon already did posted it actually. Here I will post it again for you (from 2:52)

  65. Ragnorke December 29, 2014 at 2:37 pm -      #65

    @Rookie
    “Isn’t Deathwing can do it mostly because of his control over Earth element?”

    He’s a dragon aspect… Not an Elemental lord…

    So how is FF going to deal with the Elemental lords btw?
    They literally cannot be killed unless you go to their own plane and kill them there. Goodluck getting there.

    Meanwhile they have control over all fire and air on the planet.

  66. Rookie December 29, 2014 at 2:40 pm -      #66

    @Ragnorke

    “He’s a dragon aspect… Not an Elemental lord…”

    True, but his aspect was Earth based.

  67. Soulerous December 29, 2014 at 3:06 pm -      #67

    @Sauroposeidon- “Almost your entire party uses magic attacks but can’t touch Zeromus with out the crystal.
    -Unless these magic attacks are known to harm other incorporeal entities, I see no reason to believe this is more than magic attacks manifesting physically and passing through the incorporeal Zeremus.
    ~
    @Ragnorke- “Demons return to the twisted nether when “killed” in azeroth.
    -The Nathrezim (dreadlords) do, but other demon species do not. Though they may have some means of resurrection, it is not yet detailed.
    ~
    @Rookie- “Isn’t Deathwing can do it mostly because of his control over Earth element?
    -His control over earth is innate, but the degree of control is dependent on his power. After the old gods amplified his power tenfold, he gained the ability to affect land on a global scale, which he had previously lacked.

  68. Friendlysociopath December 29, 2014 at 3:08 pm -      #68

    Meanwhile they have control over all fire and air on the planet.

    No they don’t, not even close.

    Goodluck getting there.

    How do WoW forces go there?

  69. Rookie December 29, 2014 at 3:10 pm -      #69

    @Soulerous

    “Unless these magic attacks are known to harm other incorporeal entities, I see no reason to believe this is more than magic attacks manifesting physically and passing through the incorporeal Zeremus.”

    They can harm spirits at least (ghosts too):
    finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Soul_%28Final_Fantasy_IV%29
    finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Spirit_%28Final_Fantasy_IV%29
    finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Zemus%27s_Breath

  70. Ragnorke December 29, 2014 at 4:06 pm -      #70

    @Friendly
    “No they don’t, not even close.”

    Well he fought against the Titans, who are practically gods & the most powerful beings in the Universe.
    Sure Ragnoras probably can’t simultaneously control every fire in Azeroth immediately, but he does have power over it if in proximity.

    “How do WoW forces go there?”

    www.wowwiki.com/Elemental_Plane
    Elementals open portals to Azeroth, which Heroes can use to enter the Planes.

    @Rookie
    “They can harm spirits at least (ghosts too):”

    Are those spirits immune to physical & energy attacks though…?
    I’m going to go ahead and guess no… But i could be wrong.

    “Umhm, Ragnorke, Sauroposeidon already did posted it actually. Here I will post it again for you (from 2:52)”

    …No, all this shows is fireballs with the range of 5 meters.
    I’m asking him to post proof of its effectiveness.
    He claims it’s mountain busting or what not, i’d like to see that posted.

  71. Rookie December 29, 2014 at 4:16 pm -      #71

    @Ragnorke

    “I’m asking him to post proof of its effectiveness.
    He claims it’s mountain busting or what not, i’d like to see that posted.”

    You saw videos with Cid’s bomb explosion (the one what reached the sky, post 28) and with Titan (post 3)? Meteo is far stronger as was stated in game and in lore.

  72. Zazax December 29, 2014 at 4:51 pm -      #72

    So since the conversation seems to be focusing on stuff like Deathwing and the Elemental Lords, I’ve got a quick question. Any mental resistance feats on these guys?

    Also, the downplay is strong with this match.

  73. Ragnorke December 29, 2014 at 4:55 pm -      #73

    @Rookie
    “and with Titan (post 3)?”

    The mountain range shook. I saw no destruction of anything.
    In fact all the mountains seem intact when Cecil heads to the Overworld right after.

    “You saw videos with Cid’s bomb explosion (the one what reached the sky, post 28) ”

    That explosion was nothing special considering the scale of this match, and that island was ridiculously small. Like barely the size of a house kind of small.
    And don’t say it’s scaled down, caus that was a clear cutscene, not an Overworld map.

    @Zazax
    ” Any mental resistance feats on these guys?”

    Yea.
    Mindfuckery is pretty common amongst casters in WoW. Specifically Priests & Death Knights if i remember correctly.
    Raid bosses aren’t really effected.

    Which brings up the question: Does FF have any mind resistance?

  74. Ragnorke December 29, 2014 at 4:58 pm -      #74

    So, we have a canon cutscene/trailer of a Mage using the Polymorph spell (very common ingame spell), that turns people into sheep.
    What’s stopping them from.. well… Turning everyone in FF into sheep?
    Are they immune to molecular alteration? And if so, post it.

  75. Friendlysociopath December 29, 2014 at 5:00 pm -      #75

    Magics always a little iffy to get specifics on for Final Fantasy. The spells have the same names but in general you’ll only see them in combat and they don’t fulfill their lore-related potential. Are they the same spells is the question?

    Ultima for example is always considered one of the greatest spells in the game but the only time we see it really do anything is FF9 where Kuja lifewipes with it.
    Same with meteor, classified as extremely dangerous along with hype of “You shouldn’t use it cause it’s too powerful” and the only time we see it used to that magnitude is FF7 where Sephiroth uses it.

    Now, the argument could be made that the only time the spells live up to their world-ending potential is limited by user-interference, which I would buy as a legit excuse for why life-wiping magic is held down to a lesser tier until someone who wants to end the world uses it. Same with Exdeath, Quake never sinks islands when the party uses it.
    _
    What’s stopping them from.. well… Turning everyone in FF into sheep?

    Reflect, shell, wall, various magical items that prevent polymorph magic from working on you.

  76. Ragnorke December 29, 2014 at 5:05 pm -      #76

    “Reflect, shell, wall, various magical items that prevent polymorph magic from working on you.”

    How many people have access to those spells or items though?
    I can’t possibly imagine it being an equal number to WoW.

  77. Zazax December 29, 2014 at 5:34 pm -      #77

    “Yea.
    Mindfuckery is pretty common amongst casters in WoW. Specifically Priests & Death Knights if i remember correctly.”
    Okay. Since you seem intent on demanding even the slightest evidence for anything from Team FF, I think it’s your turn to actually post something beyond ‘yeah they have it’. Post some actual resistance feats. And Contractual Boss Immunity doesn’t count as a feat (for either side).

    As for FF’s resistance, we do have Kain and Golbez mind controlled for a significant portion of the game, but both of them manage to break out of it. And the fact that Zemus was able to mind control Golbez (who in turn mind controls Kain) speaks volumes for Zemus’ mindfuckery rather than Golbez’s lack of resistance (particularly over that distance. Wow).
    And then we have stuff like Kain throwing off his mind control with no help at all out of sheer willpower.

    “How many people have access to those spells or items though?
    I can’t possibly imagine it being an equal number to WoW.”
    You can buy curative items from any old shop. Cities can sell you hundreds of them. Then there’s the entire city that’s made up of nothing but spellcasters, and half of them are White Mages. White Mages have access to Esuna, which can remove any status in the game (including things like all three of the polymorph equivalents) except for Berserk. Then there’s stuff like Reflect, which itself can be cast as a spell or put up with more of those items you can buy from shops. And *then* there’s the somewhat more rare but still present stuff that just makes you passively immune to it.

  78. Ragnorke December 29, 2014 at 5:52 pm -      #78

    @Zazax
    “Okay. Since you seem intent on demanding even the slightest evidence for anything from Team FF,”

    Asking for proof of mountain busting attacks seems like a pretty reasonable thing to want evidence for as far as i’m concerned.

    “I think it’s your turn to actually post something beyond ‘yeah they have it’”

    I’v posted more than anyone else here. But okay.

    “Post some actual resistance feats. ”

    www.wowwiki.com/Priest_abilities
    They can dispel pretty much anything. Including Mind spells.
    If any character is under the influence of any magic, a Priest can dispel is.
    Unless it’s specified as being “undispel”able, i suppose.

    Mind spells include:
    www.wowwiki.com/Mind_Freeze
    www.wowhead.com/spell=15407/mind-flay
    www.wowwiki.com/Mind_Control
    www.wowwiki.com/Mind_Sear
    I think there’s a couple more but 5 links is the limit before getting moderated.
    You get the idea.

    ” but both of them manage to break out of it.”

    After how long?
    They’d just be made to stab each other, or themselves, instantly here.

    “And the fact that Zemus was able to mind control Golbez (who in turn mind controls Kain) speaks volumes for Zemus’ mindfuckery”

    Being able to mindfuck someone doesn’t mean you have resistances to mindfuckery.
    This doesn’t speak “volumes” for Zemus whatsoever. It’s just standard mindcontrol.

    “You can buy curative items from any old shop. Cities can sell you hundreds of them. Then there’s the entire city that’s made up of nothing but spellcasters”

    Cool. So basically like WoW, but less items and less people.

    “Then there’s stuff like Reflect, which itself can be cast as a spell”

    Pretty standard for WoW.

  79. Ragnorke December 29, 2014 at 5:53 pm -      #79

    Since you started this whole: “Post all your evidence for tiny details thing”…
    Start posting.

  80. Ragnorke December 29, 2014 at 6:11 pm -      #80

    www.wowwiki.com/Mage_abilities
    Note worthy spells:
    Polymorph
    Blink
    Counterspell
    Time Warp
    Spellsteal
    Invisibility

    Warriors also have this: www.wowwiki.com/Spell_Reflection

    www.wowwiki.com/Paladin_abilities
    Noteworthy abilities:
    Redemption (Resurrection)
    Rebuke (Stops enemy from spell casting for several seconds)
    Divine Shield (blocks “all” (i know i know) physical & magic damage)
    Turn Evil (Demons, Abberrations, or Undead cannot fight back for about a minute)
    Tons of heals.

    www.wowwiki.com/Shaman_abilities
    Lightning Shield (lightning strikes enemies that touch. It’s called natural lightning, thus it can be quantified as having the energy that real lightning has.)
    Purge (removes any spell benefits from enemy)
    Ancestral Spirit (Resurrection)
    Cleanse
    Wind Shear (burst of wind cancels any enemy action)
    Reincarnation
    Far Sight (grants vision great distances away)
    Hex (transforms enemy into frog. Similar to polymorph)
    Ascendence (transforms into an elemental)
    Tons of weapon/elemental enchantments
    Tons of heals
    Shapeshifting into ghost wolves.
    Tons of totem summons

  81. Ragnorke December 29, 2014 at 6:19 pm -      #81

    www.wowwiki.com/Druid_abilities
    Revive (ressurection)
    Rebirth (ressurection)
    Tons of Shapeshifting.
    Tons of controlling Plants
    Tons of heals.

    www.wowwiki.com/Death_knight_abilities
    These guys are pretty much filled with Hax, and just about every ability is Note Worthy.
    If their enemy is a living being, they’re extremely fucked.
    They have a million different ways to mess with your soul, your mind, & your body.

    Icebound fortitude (freezes their blood to make their body rock hard)
    Anti-magic shell (obvious)
    Raise Ally.

    www.wowwiki.com/Warlock_abilities
    Again, tons of Hax.
    Lots & Lots of soul oriented stuff.

    Pretty much each Warlock can conjure/summon up a mini army of their own.
    And that army has its own soul fucking hax too.

  82. Ragnorke December 29, 2014 at 6:22 pm -      #82

    It’s worth mentioning that some spells are specifically mentioned as being unblockable, or unreflectable.
    So there’s that.

    Oh, and all of these are only basic spells/skills.

  83. Soulerous December 29, 2014 at 7:20 pm -      #83

    With varying degrees of potency, however. Many things are game mechanics. A fireball is a fireball, but diseases need lore feats to display their effects. Casual resurrection spells do not happen at all in Warcraft lore, and exist for the sake of gameplay. Resurrection is extremely rare.
    ~
    @Zazax- “So since the conversation seems to be focusing on stuff like Deathwing and the Elemental Lords, I’ve got a quick question. Any mental resistance feats on these guys?
    -Certainly. This thread contains valuable information on Deathwing. Post #155, by yours truly, details feats for a powerful dragon mage and then shows how Deathwing can mentally dominate him. At the bottom is the feat for his power being amplified by a factor of ten since then.

  84. hermetic_harbinger December 29, 2014 at 10:16 pm -      #84

    Still waiting for a response based on the Telepathy that the Lunarians. For Zemus this effectiveness is multiplied as he not only controls the Half-Breed Lunarian Golbez, but the Elemental Archfiends, and a party character, Kain.

    Proof: finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Zemus

    Otherwise, I can easily see Zemus hijacking the Horde. to his own ends of annihilating Azeroth. Most likely using the Horde to his own ends of killing any/all competition obstructing him from reactivating the Tower of Babil to annihilate Azeroth un-obstructed. Most of you assume that Zemus’s power came from the fact that he dealt with threats directly, he did not. He was quite hidden and no one saw who was pulling the strings directly until it was nearly too late.

  85. Ciridae Hunter December 29, 2014 at 11:46 pm -      #85

    Are Limit Breaks an element of the match? Some of the higher-tier characters would have insane abilities while in Limit Break (leaning more toward magic-users).

    Why did nobody mention the black dragon that Golbez summoned to insta-down anyone?

    For WoW and FF, battle resurrection is nothing more than reviving a KO’d character, with emphasis put on how difficult it is to revive a person that’s full-dead versus almost-dead (props to whomever gets the reference first)

    Probably my only post for a while; migraines are murder

  86. Ciridae Hunter December 30, 2014 at 12:15 am -      #86

    “It’s worth mentioning that some spells are specifically mentioned as being unblocable, or unreflectable.
    So there’s that.”

    Final Fantasy also does that for spells like Meteor-by all accounts a basic spell (if somewhat forbidden), so by your own logic that must also apply to Final Fantasy.

    I won’t say that I know both of these worlds like the back of my hand because I don’t (it’s been years since WoW didn’t seem irritating to me and my copies of Final Fantasy IV were destroyed or stolen during a fail-cation even further back), but wanking a side “just because” is irksome as all hell (like how Tifa is implied to have a thing with Cloud even though we all know she could do better).

    Not implying that you are the only one that does this, Ragnorke, but I have noticed a phrase of yours, quote “the burden of proof is on you” unquote, that has always made my eye twitch (you decide which eye) since seven times out of ten you do not post proof unless doggedly pursued for it.

    Seriously, though-why are WoW graphics practically the same when they supposedly have enough funding from being the worlds biggest MMORPG? It’s not like they were like the original Final Fantasy working with half a pixel, so it seems like a stab in the sphincter considering how much Final Fantasy games have improved (granted Square Enix is like the stereotype perfectionist-and I admit some of their expansion packs are pretty of exceptional quality)

    Sorry that this is such a long post; I had five minutes between a bout so I thought I would use it

  87. Aelfinn December 30, 2014 at 12:35 am -      #87

    What is the lore on Deathwing’s destruction of continents? I ask because the Cataclysm trailer, while pretty damn cool, isn’t continent-level.

  88. Soulerous December 30, 2014 at 3:22 am -      #88

    @Aelfinn- The trailer does not show continent-level destruction only because it’s a collection of scenes zoomed in on Deathwing. The damage he caused during that time did span the continents, and the oceans as well, which is why there were tidal waves or tsunamis. Here are some choice excerpts:
    ~
    Once the glorious Earth-Warder, the black dragon Deathwing is now a world-shaking avatar of destruction.
    ~
    Deathwing returned to Azeroth after the fall of the Lich King, emerging in a world-breaking wave of destruction known as the Cataclysm.” (Source)
    ~
    Now the breaker of worlds, Deathwing, has burst forth from the heart of the Maelstrom and unleashed his rage upon the land and sea. Azeroth has been changed forever, and you must enter the elemental planes in an epic quest to stop the Destroyer from shattering the world itself.
    ~
    Return to Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms to find them scarred by Deathwing’s rage. From the devastated Badlands to the Broken Barrens, the transformed lands of Azeroth host new quest lines, new enemies, and new rewards.” (Source)
    ~
    Every zone in-game changed drastically. Chris Metzen, Senior Vice President of Story and Franchise Development at Blizzard Entertainment, talked about the process at Blizzcon 2009, which you can watch here, starting at 5:09.

  89. Soulerous December 30, 2014 at 3:34 am -      #89

    In addition, during the final in-game confrontation, Deathwing attempts to cast Cataclysm (again) to which the other dragon aspects react:
    ~
    Alexstrasza yells:No! Such power! Deathwing’s summoning of the final Cataclysm will destroy all life on Azeroth. Quickly, we must interrupt him!
    ~
    Kalecgos yells:The Destroyer is gathering all his might for a blow that will split the world. Attack him, now! We must stop the final Cataclysm!
    ~
    Nozdormu yells:Hurry, heroes. In mere moments Deathwing’s Cataclysm will complete what he begun and end the world. Join me in the attack, now!
    ~
    Ysera yells:Deathwing is conjuring the final Cataclysm; even the Emerald Dream trembles. If we are to stop the spell, we must attack him together.
    ~

  90. Ragnorke December 30, 2014 at 6:51 am -      #90

    @Aelfinn
    “What is the lore on Deathwing’s destruction of continents? I ask because the Cataclysm trailer, while pretty damn cool, isn’t continent-level.”

    World map before:
    img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100918211225/wowwiki/images/8/86/WorldMap-World-cata.jpg
    World map after:
    img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120601175437/wowwiki/images/b/b3/WorldMap-World.jpg

    Even individual cities had noticeable changes, and entire mountain ranges were moved:
    img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100910003015/wowwiki/images/d/d2/WorldMap-TolBaradDailyArea.jpg
    img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100910003015/wowwiki/images/7/73/WorldMap-TolBarad.jpg

  91. Ragnorke December 30, 2014 at 6:53 am -      #91

    @Aelfinn
    img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071104180957/wowwiki/images/1/1a/WorldMap-Barrens-old.jpg
    img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140131234712/wowwiki/images/4/4d/WorldMap-Barrens.jpg

    img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140212010938/wowwiki/images/c/cc/WorldMap-StranglethornJungle.jpg
    img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071104181207/wowwiki/images/3/3a/WorldMap-Stranglethorn.jpg

    img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080112201903/wowwiki/images/f/f5/WorldMap-Hillsbrad-old.jpg
    img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140218234825/wowwiki/images/e/e4/WorldMap-HillsbradFoothills.jpg

    cdn.arstechnica.net/11-24-2010/badlands_comparison.jpg

    Note that all maps have the exact same art style and scaling before & after.
    Every small “detail” change in the drawing is an actual geographical change.

  92. Ragnorke December 30, 2014 at 7:07 am -      #92

    @Soulerous
    “With varying degrees of potency, however. Many things are game mechanics.”

    True. I think warcraft 3 cutscenes are the closest we can get to seeing their potency.

    “but diseases need lore feats to display their effects.”

    Arthas plagued an entire town with hundreds of people almost instantly.
    That was before he became the lich king.

    “Casual resurrection spells do not happen at all in Warcraft lore, and exist for the sake of gameplay.”

    It was in warcraft 3 as well though…
    It certainly isn’t casual, it needs some sort of Champion or Hero to perform.
    They need to be in a state “near death”, rather than completely gone.

    @Hermetic Harbringer
    “Otherwise, I can easily see Zemus hijacking the Horde. to his own ends of annihilating Azeroth.”

    1. They can just cleanse/dispel off the mind control.
    2. The horde consists of millions of people, with some of the strongest “will” imaginable. Goodluck controlling them.

    @Hunter
    “Are Limit Breaks an element of the match? Some of the higher-tier characters would have insane abilities while in Limit Break (leaning more toward magic-users).”

    Are they canon?
    If so, post it.

    “Why did nobody mention the black dragon that Golbez summoned to insta-down anyone?”

    Feel free to post it, but i doubt it compares to WoWs dragons.

    “Not implying that you are the only one that does this, Ragnorke, but I have noticed a phrase of yours, quote “the burden of proof is on you” unquote, that has always made my eye twitch (you decide which eye) since seven times out of ten you do not post proof unless doggedly pursued for it.”

    1. When have i refused to provide proof when asked for it…?
    2. I provided everything relevant to my arguments BEFORE this debate even began.
    3. Sauro claimed FF can bust mountain ranges. I’d like to see it before agreeing with it. How is that in any way unreasonable?

    “Seriously, though-why are WoW graphics practically the same when they supposedly have enough funding from being the worlds biggest MMORPG?”

    The graphics aren’t the same at all though.
    They get upgraded with every expansion, and recently received a full visual overhaul.

    Can they keep up with brand new games? of course not. It’s a 12-13 year old engine.
    But that doesn’t mean it hasn’t changed.

  93. pimpmage December 30, 2014 at 8:12 am -      #93

    “They get upgraded with every expansion, and recently received a full visual overhaul.”

  94. Ragnorke December 30, 2014 at 8:44 am -      #94

    @pimpmage
    Iv always wondered… What’s your avatar supposed to be? xD

  95. Ciridae Hunter December 30, 2014 at 8:58 am -      #95

    “Are they canon?”

    …have you ever played Final Fantasy games? Of course it’s canon-it happens in every game (though it might just be a trademark game mechanic)

    The black dragon was shown in one of the early posts, so feel free to look at the videos.

    “When have I refused to provide proof..?”

    You display proof only when doggedly pursued for it; you typically just say “post it” or “yea they do that”, though thankfully less in this fight.

    I, too, would like to see some example of mountain-busting; I never said it was unreasonable, but sometimes one has to post it themselves or prove it wrong on their own. Though lore-wise, Meteor is powerful enough to wipe out planets, we only really see this with Sephiroth since he has way more power to do I to using it.

    “The graphics aren’t the same at all though.”

    They have changed very little over a 12-year span, though I got sick of it years ago (like previously mentioned) so I only keep up with General knowledge of modern WoW.

  96. Ragnorke December 30, 2014 at 9:13 am -      #96

    “…have you ever played Final Fantasy games? Of course it’s canon-it happens in every game (though it might just be a trademark game mechanic)”

    I meant canon in Lore… Not in game canon…

    “You display proof only when doggedly pursued for it”

    By “doggedly pursued” i’m assuming you mean “asked”.
    I don’t recall anyone ever asking me to post something that i need to prove, and me not posting it.
    The only times would be when i’m asked to post something oddly specific regarding comics, which could take days or weeks to find.

    “but sometimes one has to post it themselves or prove it wrong on their own”

    How can i prove something wrong if i haven’t even seen it yet?

    ” Though lore-wise, Meteor is powerful enough to wipe out planets,”

    This ^ is the type of thing you guys should actually be posting/sourcing, instead of randomly mentioning.

  97. pimpmage December 30, 2014 at 9:19 am -      #97

    My avatar is King Torq! All hail King Torq! From the ‘Kolbolds ate my babies’ beer game. He has a Space Maine chest plate with the imperial aquila and space marine shoulders.

  98. Rookie December 30, 2014 at 9:21 am -      #98

    @Ragnorke

    “This ^ is the type of thing you guys should actually be posting/sourcing, instead of randomly mentioning.”

    They probably mean this: finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Meteor_(Final_Fantasy_VII)

  99. Ciridae Hunter December 30, 2014 at 9:36 am -      #99

    Meteor ignores magic defense and spells like Reflect and is used several times in FF IV as a plot device (such as weakening Golbez and I believe killing Zemus but I would have to look further into that to be sure). FF IV shows that Meteor requires massive power to use, so a normal party member can use it but would be restricted unless they were willing to kill themselves to cast it.

  100. Ragnorke December 30, 2014 at 10:14 am -      #100

    “They probably mean this: finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Meteor_(Final_Fantasy_VII)”

    Correct me if i’m wrong, but that’s an entirely different game isn’t it?
    Does it mention anywhere that powerscaling between the 2 games is even remotely applicable?

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