Flash Vs Quicksilver

Flash Vs Quicksilver

Brought to you by sadot06

Here comes another DC against Marvel clash. This time, we have the CW version of The Flash, going up against the Quicksilver version from Days of Future Past.

Fight takes place in Gotham.

Who would win?

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143 Comments on "Flash Vs Quicksilver"

  1. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 6:56 am -      #1

    I heard that Flash now is faster than lighting…
    As for Quicksilver:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Suxugk0_YqI

  2. Sylar121 December 7, 2014 at 7:32 am -      #2

    no offence, and i know i hardly ever post but, why is stuff like this even being suggested when in numerous other battles threads on this site its been confirmed the flash would beat quicksilver ?

  3. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 7:44 am -      #3

    @Sylar121

    “when in numerous other battles threads on this site its been confirmed the flash would beat quicksilver ?”

    Where exactly?

  4. Friendlysociopath December 7, 2014 at 8:43 am -      #4

    Where exactly?

    It’s mostly in passing, someone mentions the idea then 3 or 4 people all say Flash takes it and then they get back to the point of the match. I forget which thread, it was fairly recent.

    Course, I don’t think they use CW Flash when they say that so this may be an exception due to incarnation.

  5. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 8:46 am -      #5

    @Friendlysociopath

    “It’s mostly in passing, someone mentions the idea then 3 or 4 people all say Flash takes it and then they get back to the point of the match. I forget which thread, it was fairly recent.”

    Ah I see. I must’ve missed that somehow.

  6. sadot06 December 7, 2014 at 10:18 am -      #6

    “I heard that Flash now is faster than lighting…”

    As of now, he isn’t. That idea came from the episode where he lost his powers. The metahuman he was fighting could manipulate electricity, it wasn’t actually lightning like out of the sky. Flash hasn’t shown the extent of whatever upgrade he supposedly got.

  7. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 10:28 am -      #7

    @Friendlysociopath

    “Course, I don’t think they use CW Flash when they say that so this may be an exception due to incarnation.”

    What is so different about CW Flash then?

    @sadot06

    “As of now, he isn’t. That idea came from the episode where he lost his powers. The metahuman he was fighting could manipulate electricity, it wasn’t actually lightning like out of the sky. Flash hasn’t shown the extent of whatever upgrade he supposedly got.”

    How fast is Flash?

  8. Private Khaos December 7, 2014 at 11:11 am -      #8

    I’ve seen DoFP and me and my brother loved Quicksilver. But I do know that the Flash is faster but I haven’t seen his new show so I can’t say. What’s the estimate for how fast QS was in the movie compared to the Flash?

  9. Ragnorke December 7, 2014 at 11:16 am -      #9

    Hasn’t tv flash ran across water?
    I can calculate that if necessary.

    Anyhow, does tv flash still control the speed force?

  10. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 11:25 am -      #10

    @Ragnorke

    “Hasn’t tv flash ran across water?”

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzXCvqeZt4I

  11. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 11:26 am -      #11

    @Ragnorke

    “Anyhow, does tv flash still control the speed force?”

    Doubt it:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuHmVqgy_5U

  12. sadot06 December 7, 2014 at 11:45 am -      #12

    “How fast is Flash?”

    Thus far his confirmed top speed is somewhere north of supersonic

  13. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 11:47 am -      #13

    @sadot06

    “Thus far his confirmed top speed is somewhere north of supersonic”

    I see. This mean Quickilver have a chance to beat him.

  14. Warlock Lowk December 7, 2014 at 11:51 am -      #14

    ““Anyhow, does tv flash still control the speed force?”

    Doubt it:”

    Well he is still using some form of unknown energy source and at times manages to pull of stuff like running at highspeeds without hurting people.
    So at this point it might be a sub-conscious thing.

  15. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 11:58 am -      #15

    @Warlock Lowk

    “So at this point it might be a sub-conscious thing.”

    You could be right.

  16. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 7, 2014 at 12:24 pm -      #16

    “What is so different about CW Flash then?”

    It’s a different incarnation. So far he’s a helluva lot slower for one. Besides that, he’s in a separate universe than the any other Flash’s.
    =
    “Hasn’t tv flash ran across water?
    I can calculate that if necessary.”

    I think they already did on the show.
    =
    Kinda struggling to really pick a side. DoFP Quicksilver has a lot less showings than CW Flash, but his one showing is very impressive. And Flash seems to have caught up in speed with the electricity/lightning/static feat with Blackout and in Flash vs Arrow he does a similar thing to what QS did after Rainbow Raider robs the bank(albeit Flash’s doesn’t seem to be as slowed down, nor does his last as long). Although I can’t find a video for Flash’s feat on the interwebz. Here’s Quicksilver’s though: www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmJa5cv3kZM

    Think I’m going to go with the Flash on this one. Quicksilver has one very impressive feat, but Flash seems to have caught up and has shown a few more abilities that QS hasn’t shown, and since Flash is a continuing show while Quicksilver is only going to be in one or maybe two more movies I don’t see his feats getting any more impressive while Flash’s will for sure.

  17. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 12:32 pm -      #17

    @CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets

    “Think I’m going to go with the Flash on this one. Quicksilver has one very impressive feat, but Flash seems to have caught up and has shown a few more abilities that QS hasn’t shown, and since Flash is a continuing show while Quicksilver is only going to be in one or maybe two more movies I don’t see his feats getting any more impressive while Flash’s will for sure”

    Isn’t TV Flash struggling to defeat opponents who have normal speed? I got this impression from the video above.

  18. Ragnorke December 7, 2014 at 12:58 pm -      #18

    Tv flash has alot of PIS. As does animated flash. And comic flash.

    When you create a character faster than anything else in the universe, it doesn’t quite make sense for him to lose to anything. Ever.

  19. sadot06 December 7, 2014 at 12:59 pm -      #19

    He lost to Arrow while bloodlusted, but you can chalk some of it up to PIS. Other times he’s facing metahumans with difficult to counter abilities.

  20. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 1:05 pm -      #20

    @Ragnorke

    “Tv flash has alot of PIS. As does animated flash. And comic flash.”

    So he does struggle to beat normal opponents PIS or not, right?

    @sadot06

    “Other times he’s facing metahumans with difficult to counter abilities.”

    Who are they? There was some metal guy in the video above, who are the rest of them?

    “He lost to Arrow while bloodlusted”

    That’s… make me think that TV Flash is pretty weak.

  21. sadot06 December 7, 2014 at 1:19 pm -      #21

    “Who are they? There was some metal guy in the video above, who are the rest of them?”

    The metal dude, flash couldn’t physically hurt until he learned the super sonic punch. Blackout took his powers away. His first villain manipulated and could turn himself into wind, another dude could multiply.

    “That’s… make me think that TV Flash is pretty weak.”

    There was a lot of PIS. Arrow outsmarted him with explosives and hidden arrows a couple times, and predicted where Flash would move while he was getting blitzed.

  22. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 1:22 pm -      #22

    @sadot06

    “The metal dude, flash couldn’t physically hurt until he learned the super sonic punch. Blackout took his powers away. His first villain manipulated and could turn himself into wind, another dude could multiply.”

    Sounds like a cool bunch, except for metal dude.

    “There was a lot of PIS. Arrow outsmarted him with explosives and hidden arrows a couple times, and predicted where Flash would move while he was getting blitzed.”

    Still, very bad outcome. Now I even more confident that Quicksilver can win here.

  23. Warlock Lowk December 7, 2014 at 1:31 pm -      #23

    “He lost to Arrow while bloodlusted”

    That’s… make me think that TV Flash is pretty weak.”

    Flash blitzed the shit out of Arrow and the only way Ollie coule touch him was through misdirection. Even then he burned through or healed against everything he threw at him. As he noted when he was trying to train him, Barry situational awareness is pretty shit compared to his speed. He rushes into things without fully taking in the surroundings.
    EDIT: On top of that, having a metahuman put you in a state of uncontrollable anger probably didn’t help with that. I’m kind of suprised how compent he was during.

  24. sadot06 December 7, 2014 at 1:36 pm -      #24

    “Still, very bad outcome. Now I even more confident that Quicksilver can win here.”

    It was still mostly PIS and Arrow taking advantage of Flash being a noob.

    Flash’s last speed feat involved 5 bombs spread throughout the city. He had 90 seconds before they went off. He ran to the first, found out they all had to be disarmed at the same time, ran back to base, grabbed a team member, ran them to a bomb, ran back, rinse repeat. I don’t know how to calculate that though.

  25. Skalkorik13 December 7, 2014 at 1:41 pm -      #25

    Im gonna have to go with Quicksilver … he has time to casually walk around a room taking his time snatching a guards hat , literally moving bullets while theyre in motion , etc … CW Flash can dodge bullets and such but nowhere near movie Quicksilvers feats … Maybe once Flash catches up to his comicbook speed … but for now Quicksilver has this

  26. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 1:49 pm -      #26

    @sadot06

    “It was still mostly PIS and Arrow taking advantage of Flash being a noob.”

    If Quicksilver wins because of these reasons too, I don’t mind. Losing to someone like Arrow is wayyy too bad when you hope to take on someone like Quicksilver.
    So I decide for whom I will vote.
    Quicksilver for BankGambling Award. It’s sad, but for me DC lost here.

  27. Skalkorik13 December 7, 2014 at 1:49 pm -      #27

    Sorry for double post … Just wanted to ask/point out … if you average the speed of a 9mm bullet at about 800mph … How fast does Quicksilver need to be moving in order for them to be just about standing still … Thats a lot faster than anything Ive seen Flash accomplish on the show

  28. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 1:54 pm -      #28

    @Skalkorik13

    “if you average the speed of a 9mm bullet at about 800mph … How fast does Quicksilver need to be moving in order for them to be just about standing still … Thats a lot faster than anything Ive seen Flash accomplish on the show”

    You have a point. It is important, I agree. Quicksilver looks faster and seems like he can control his powers better.

  29. Warlock Lowk December 7, 2014 at 2:33 pm -      #29

    ” Losing to someone like Arrow is wayyy too bad when you hope to take on someone like Quicksilver.”

    Except he didn’t lose. Flash dominated the fight, every move Arrow made was countered. It was a classic Superman vs Batman fight where neither really wins and it’s solved via outside help.
    We all know if superman goal was kill batman he would.
    Flash’s mind was manipulated into experiencing made him irrational. Didn’t turn him into a killing machine. In fact his power was slowing the effect. He was literally fast enough to run circles around him delivering rapid fire fisticuffs. This is the same man who is completely aware of how to hit hard enough to drop a guy way more durable then Arrow. If he wanted to simply kill him Flash could’ve done more then just pull out his grappling arrow and let him fall.

  30. Aelfinn December 7, 2014 at 2:37 pm -      #30

    “If Quicksilver wins because of these reasons too, I don’t mind. Losing to someone like Arrow is wayyy too bad when you hope to take on someone like Quicksilver.”

    You do understand that PIS stands for “Plot Induced Stupidity”, right? It means the writers needed a character to become de-powered for the sake of the plot. Because it is not an accurate representation of a character’s powers, we tend to not accept those instances when talking about a character’s abilities.
    =
    “Flash’s last speed feat involved 5 bombs spread throughout the city. He had 90 seconds before they went off. He ran to the first, found out they all had to be disarmed at the same time, ran back to base, grabbed a team member, ran them to a bomb, ran back, rinse repeat. I don’t know how to calculate that though.”

    If we knew how far everything was from each other, that may help.
    =
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlR7U8OZfsk

    I mean, the Flash makes the electricity look slow. Is there any explanation as to why Blackout can shoot electricity? The only things I know of that does this are static electricity or lightning (which is just really big static electricity), which would seem to make the Flash pretty damn fast (like, over 1/3 the speed of light fast).

  31. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 2:38 pm -      #31

    @Warlock Lowk

    “We all know if superman goal was kill batman he would.”

    Agreed.

    “Except he didn’t lose.”

    So how is that end? Who hold advantage in the end?
    The very fact that Flash wasn’t able to win right away is already sound not good though.

    @Aelfinn

    “You do understand that PIS stands for “Plot Induced Stupidity”, right? It means the writers needed a character to become de-powered for the sake of the plot. Because it is not an accurate representation of a character’s powers, we tend to not accept those instances when talking about a character’s abilities.”

    In comics or in cartoons ok, they are big enough for this. But how many episodes have TV Flash?
    As someone who isn’t watching this series the very fact that he can’t beat Arrow right away telling me that either he can’t control his powers well or that this version of Flash is not very fast.
    Or he just sucks, but from the videos above only his costume looks silly to me, while he himself looks ok as character.

  32. Dassadec December 7, 2014 at 2:48 pm -      #32

    DoFP quicksilver has much better feats than CW Flash

    By the end of the season Flash might pass him but as of now Quicksilver takes ot

  33. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 2:51 pm -      #33

    @Dassadec

    “DoFP quicksilver has much better feats than CW Flash”

    What are Flash’s best feats for now?

  34. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 7, 2014 at 3:04 pm -      #34

    Rookie, I don’t think you’re getting the point of PLOT INDUCED STUPIDITY. Flash didn’t kill Arrow because plot demanded they both live. We’ve seen Arrow struggle with Mirakuru enhanced people and he’s gotten his ass kicked multiple times by guys like that. Not just because they were tougher and stronger, but because they were also faster. Flash is faster by leaps and bounds, and has managed to knockout a guy that was encased in an organic metal natural body armor thing. The only reason Flash didn’t kill Arrow isn’t because he wasn’t fast enough(we even have a quote of Flash telling us Arrow seems to stand still when they fight…), because he isn’t fast enough, or because he doesn’t control his powers well(we’ve seen that he does), but because the plot demanded Arrow doesn’t get turned to a pile of mush from a Mach 1 punch to the face(someone who physics harder than I do can probably tell you what a Mach 1 punch to the face could do to someone).

  35. Warlock Lowk December 7, 2014 at 3:09 pm -      #35

    “So how is that end? Who hold advantage in the end?
    The very fact that Flash wasn’t able to win right away is already sound not good though.”

    Oliver was teaching him about his battlefield awareness and how he doesn’t pay attention despite having the time to. Barry was cocky caught the arrow he shot at him as he was racing towards him. He however didn’t notice the crossbow hidden on the ground behind him. Shot him in the back.
    Cue to their actual fight, Arrow tries the same trick again, Flash turns catches both arrows then gloats and doesn’t pay attention to Arrow who gets him in the leg with another while he’s not looking. Then the PIS hits harder and suddenly a healing leg mean no more superspeed for the rest of his body. Ollie catches his fist and holds him giving the gang the chance to bring in the flashing light things in to correct whatever the metahuman did to Flash’s brain. Then they go stop the bad guy.

    Essentially Barry’s mind altered goal was to beat the shit out of Arrow to show how much better he was then him. For that fight, Flash was your standard cliche supervillain.

  36. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 3:13 pm -      #36

    Warlock Lowk

    ‘Except he didn’t lose. Flash dominated the fight, every move Arrow made was countered. It was a classic Superman vs Batman fight where neither really wins and it’s solved via outside help.”

    Good thing that I decieded to look into this fight.
    So, first Arrow catch Flash with arrow and rope. Well okay, it was surprise and all, and Flash managed to free himself really fast.
    Next Flash was hit by explosion, after he heard the sound of explosion and the strange sounds from arrows. The hell? This is the guy who is supposed to take on Quicksilver? Well maybe it was just stupid day for Flash. Let’s go next.
    Flash was hit with an arrow again. This isn’t even funny anymore. But okay, let’s say it was surprise again.
    Flash almost catch Arrow, but Arrow escapes. Okayyy.
    Flash forced Arrow to came back using speed, smart move for once.
    Flash then tries to attack Arrow, but Arrow… I dunno, too much for Flash to handle? And not only that but Arrow land a clear hit. Right into Flash face. This alone tells and proves us that no matter what Flash will lose here.
    Next, Flash is angry and attacks for some time, untill Arrow let’s more attacks on hit. Flash catches first to arrows, but right after that Arrow hit him with a third into his leg. More to prove that Silver wins.
    Right after that Flash tries to punch Arrow, but Arrow easily stops the hits and capture Flash.
    So… in that moment did Flash:
    “Flash dominated the fight”
    ?
    Because the way I see Arrow toyed with Flash entite fight and the only reason why Flash lasted this long is because Arrow did not wanted to hurt him much and wanted to capture him.
    Should he wanted to kill him, Flash would’ve been dead right at the beginning.

    Quicksilver wins and with casual ease. That’s my opinion.

    @Ragnorke

    Flash have some part of speed force.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFwM5n3jC_Q

  37. Amm0vamp1r3 December 7, 2014 at 3:17 pm -      #37

    I think flash K.Os QS and leaves before anyone can see it.

  38. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 3:18 pm -      #38

    @Amm0vamp1r3

    “I think flash K.Os QS and leaves before anyone can see it.”

    Why do you think so?

  39. Amm0vamp1r3 December 7, 2014 at 3:25 pm -      #39

    Well Ive been watching flash and I haven’t read this thread yet but im guessing the lightning feat has been brought up

    And while QS is fast, I don’t think he touches flash

    added to that the QS isn’t coming back from what ive seen while flash still has more episodes to come and running on water and moving quicker than lightning has happened so early, I can just imagine what will happen next

  40. Warlock Lowk December 7, 2014 at 3:27 pm -      #40

    Nevermind seem some else found it.
    ===
    “Is there any explanation as to why Blackout can shoot electricity?”

    He was scaling a something like this
    www.mikesjournal.com/June%202009/Electric%20Tower.jpg
    When the power granting super-science accident happened.

  41. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 3:30 pm -      #41

    @Amm0vamp1r3

    “And while QS is fast, I don’t think he touches flash”

    Um, normal human (Arrow) kicked Flash ass while trying not to hurt Flash too much.
    I think QS can do the same.
    In another video it looked like some metal guy with human speed was able to hit Flash several times.
    Comics version of Flash would’ve stomped QS with ease, but this TV version Flash not looks like he can win.

  42. Amm0vamp1r3 December 7, 2014 at 3:35 pm -      #42

    “Um, normal human (Arrow) kicked Flash ass while trying not to hurt Flash too much.
    I think QS can do the same.”

    That wasn’t flash at his best, he was being mind controlled to as said before “standard cliche supervillain.” he could have killed arrow but he was trying to prove a point.

    “In another video it looked like some metal guy with human speed was able to hit Flash several times.”

    Yeah that’s true, I have no answer for that. Barry should have danced around him, he couldn’t hurt him but he still shouldn’t have been getting hit as much


    I didn’t see the video posted but
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlR7U8OZfsk

  43. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 3:37 pm -      #43

    @Amm0vamp1r3

    “Yeah that’s true, I have no answer for that. Barry should have danced around him, he couldn’t hurt him but he still shouldn’t have been getting hit as much”

    This should be enough for us.
    With QS peoples stand still while he doing anything he wants.
    With Flash they kick his ass for some time.

    I think it is clear that QS controls his powers better and thus for now Flash stand no chance.

  44. Amm0vamp1r3 December 7, 2014 at 3:41 pm -      #44

    Even have the train feat
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt2CJfoZ4UE

  45. Dassadec December 7, 2014 at 3:43 pm -      #45

    @rookie

    “What are Flash’s best feats for now?”

    Sonic Boom punch and Mach 3-5ish speeds(in a straight line)

    Basically Quicksilver’s scene redirecting multiple bullets as if they were moving in slow motion while he casually strolls around the room still exceeds what I’ve seen from CW Flash this far.

    Like I said; Flash is still learning his powers and I don’t doubt Barry will pass Peytr soon enough though

  46. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 7, 2014 at 3:44 pm -      #46

    Rookie, you seriously don’t understand PIS, do you? Read post 34…

  47. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 3:44 pm -      #47

    @Dassadec

    “Sonic Boom punch and Mach 3-5ish speeds(in a straight line)”

    Thanks.

    “Basically Quicksilver’s scene redirecting multiple bullets as if they were moving in slow motion while he casually strolls around the room still exceeds what I’ve seen from CW Flash this far.

    Like I said; Flash is still learning his powers and I don’t doubt Barry will pass Peytr soon enough though”

    I think so too.

  48. Warlock Lowk December 7, 2014 at 3:46 pm -      #48

    “Well maybe it was just stupid day for Flash.”

    His brain was altered by another metahuman. He was literally being consumed by rage. Caitlin stated that it affected the part of the brain responsible for executive functions. IE, The part that deals with working memory, reasoning, task flexibility, and problem solving as well as planning and execution.
    So yeah, there’s that.
    ===
    “Because the way I see Arrow toyed with Flash entite fight and the only reason why Flash lasted this long is because Arrow did not wanted to hurt him much and wanted to capture him.”

    Bullshit. If anyone was toying with anyone it was Flash. The man speedblitzes him multiple times, moved fast enough that his opponent appeared slow mo to him, and greatly outpaced him when he tried to get away.
    Not to mention the beginning of that episode began with him showing up as a bullet is already in the air. People are still in the air falling. He run in when it’s less then a meter or two near the guy, runs around his shooter, grabs a sign, runs back to place the sign exactly in the position so the bullet hits a small metal strip on the sign.
    Oliver has to get by on thugs with shitty aim and aim dodging to avoid being shot.

  49. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 7, 2014 at 3:47 pm -      #49

    “Basically Quicksilver’s scene redirecting multiple bullets as if they were moving in slow motion while he casually strolls around the room still exceeds what I’ve seen from CW Flash this far.”

    Flash has three feats where everything seems to stand still. The first time was when he was telling his feelings to Iris, the second time is the famous lightning speed feat, and the newest one was when Rainbow Raider was robbing a bank he does something almost exactly like QS did(as I mentioned before it didn’t seem to last as long and he didn’t seem to slow things down as fast as QS did). On top of that Mach 1 punch, running up a building, and running on water are his fastest feats so far.

  50. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 3:52 pm -      #50

    @CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets

    “Rookie, you seriously don’t understand PIS, do you? Read post 34…”

    I saw how two opponents with normal human speed punches Flash.
    Without much troubles.
    This literally the only two fights I saw from TV version of Flash and he can’t handle even this little. Not to get hit at the very least.
    Look how time looks for QS. And how it looks for Flash. Someone constantly punches him.
    I am sure if I look for more I find some other normal humans that show who can hit Flash, but I just don’t wanna.
    I wanted to start watching this series, but now I think it is good think that I didn’t. This Flash is a disgrace to comics, he can’t use his powers, he get’s hits and loses to normal human. I don’t want to see how one of my favorite heroes constantly loses and do stupid things.
    PIS or not, Flash can’t use his powers, nor he can control it enough to present a threat for QS.
    QS wins.

  51. Amm0vamp1r3 December 7, 2014 at 3:52 pm -      #51

    There is also the train feat I posted at #44 but that comment is waiting moderation

  52. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 3:55 pm -      #52

    @Warlock Lowk

    “Bullshit. If anyone was toying with anyone it was Flash. The man speedblitzes him multiple times, moved fast enough that his opponent appeared slow mo to him, and greatly outpaced him when he tried to get away.”

    Sure and this is why Flash got hit in the face, was injured and later Arrow catch Flash hand?
    Arrow just used Flash for practice, he clearly was not in any danger. Just look at the video, he played Flash the entire fight as he wanted and Flash fell for every trick.
    At no point did Flash hold any advantage in that fight.
    Normal human was too much for him to handle at that point of story.

  53. Warlock Lowk December 7, 2014 at 4:01 pm -      #53

    Also that actually that wasn’t even the only bullet scene in that episode. He outpaced the shots from a shotgun after it’s been fired and individually moved three people out of the way in different directions.

  54. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 7, 2014 at 4:05 pm -      #54

    “I saw how two opponents with normal human speed punches Flash.
    Without much troubles.”

    PIS. Flash’s speed literally had him running circles around Arrow, and kicking his ass for most of the fight(when he really felt like it). Plus, you know, there’s the whole mind control thing you keep forgetting about… Or the fact that a Mach 1 punch would’ve quite literally killed Arrow at any point in time… Or if he ran down the building to slam Arrow into the ground that would’ve killed him… Or if he just repeatedly punched him in groin or face while he was just running circles around Oliver… Seriously, it’s just plot that kept Arrow alive, nothing else. Any point in the fight Flash could’ve killed Arrow, but plot kept him from doing so…

    If you’ve seen Arrow in Season 2 you’d see Arrow getting his ass kicked by Mirakuru enhanced soldiers who were faster than Arrow(still slower than Flash)kicking his ass.
    =
    “Look how time looks for QS. And how it looks for Flash.”

    They both literally have feats of everything being slowed down for both of them… Flash has done it three separate times and has told us that Arrow literally is a statue when they fight.
    =
    “I am sure if I look for more I find some other normal humans that show who can hit Flash, but I just don’t wanna.”

    PIS…

    Honestly, a lot of your points are just countered by PIS… IF you could realize what that means you might be able to understand that every time Flash struggles with normal people it’s just bullshit.
    =
    “PIS or not, Flash can’t use his powers, nor he can control it enough to present a threat for QS.”

    PIS or not? Dude, that is quite literally the only thing stopping him from using his powers everytime he fights normal people…
    =
    “Sure and this is why Flash got hit in the face, was injured and later Arrow catch Flash hand?
    Arrow just used Flash for practice, he clearly was not in any danger. Just look at the video, he played Flash the entire fight as he wanted and Flash fell for every trick.
    At no point did Flash hold any advantage in that fight.
    Normal human was too much for him to handle at that point of story.”

    PIS… If you ever find the time to understand what that means and what that entails you might realize why stuff like that happens…
    =
    “Also that actually that wasn’t even the only bullet scene in that episode. He outpaced the shots from a shotgun after it’s been fired and individually moved three people out of the way in different directions.”

    Forgot about that.

  55. Alpha or Omega December 7, 2014 at 4:07 pm -      #55

    @Rookie
    ….You do know there was a justification for why he was hit?…And you ignored that part?
    /
    “Caitlin stated that it affected the part of the brain responsible for executive functions. IE, The part that deals with working memory, reasoning, task flexibility, and problem solving as well as planning and execution.”-Lowk
    /
    An equivalent example is this.
    What you’re saying is equivalent to Superman(an incarnation that’s weak to kryptonite) losing to Batman who uses kryptonite, and then, say Superman is weaker than a peak human.
    This is ignoring the justification for being nerfed/weakened in a fight.

  56. Aelfinn December 7, 2014 at 4:08 pm -      #56

    How fast is static electricity? Pretty damn fast.
    “When touching an object this energy is discharged in less than a microsecond.”

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_electricity
    =
    Crossing 50 feet in a microsecond is over 15 million m/s. That’s Mach 44,431. Or 5 percent the speed of light.

  57. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 4:09 pm -      #57

    Flash managed to save some people, show good speed, but ater was hit by debris and later was defeated by Captain Cold, also note that Flash realized that he can’t speedblitz Cold in the beginning apparently and this why he allowed Cold to shoot at the train. The more I learn about show the more disappointed TV Flash becomes for me, he just can’t win against anybody:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt2CJfoZ4UE

  58. Warlock Lowk December 7, 2014 at 4:14 pm -      #58

    “Sure and this is why Flash got hit in the face, was injured and later Arrow catch Flash hand?”

    So going by this it’s either PIS or your now saying that The Arrow has the reflexes to to hang with a guy that not only effortlessly dodge bullets but is also able to outpace them.
    ===
    “At no point did Flash hold any advantage in that fight.”

    Oliver was literally moving in slow motion while he got his asskicked. But noo, he was clearly doing better because he managed to get a lucky hit in. Against a guy that can heals fast enough that being shot by crossbow is equal to rough practice. Barry got up after an near-by explosion sent him flying and punched a guy at mach speed and only had a broken hand the rest of him was fine. Think about that, just his fist; and only because he punched a guy made of metal.
    But being punched in the face, woo Barry’s clearly losing now.

  59. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 4:18 pm -      #59

    @CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets

    In my comment, which is right now “Your comment is awaiting moderation. ” Flash failed to speedblitz criminal with ice gun in train (I hope this hint is enough, because apparently his name trigger “Your comment is awaiting moderation. ” thing)

    “PIS…”

    Yea, it seems every time when Flash fails it PIS. I must admit I can’t do anything against such argument, because while I provide reasons why Flash loses they all instantly becames PIS.
    Fine, if you want Flash to win so badly, I have nothing against it. I will not try to prove that QS wins anymore, it’s pointless.

    @Alpha or Omega

    “….You do know there was a justification for why he was hit?…And you ignored that part?”

    Actually at that point I was argued about the fact that Arrow toyed with Flash. Flash speed was already proved unimpressive to me when iron guy punched him. @Warlock Lowk told me that Flash dominated the fight , but you could see for yourself who played who in that fight.

    @Warlock Lowk

    “Oliver was literally moving in slow motion while he got his asskicked. But noo, he was clearly doing better because he managed to get a lucky hit in. Against a guy that can heals fast enough that being shot by crossbow is equal to rough practice. Barry got up after an near-by explosion sent him flying and punched a guy at mach speed and only had a broken hand the rest of him was fine. Think about that, just his fist; and only because he punched a guy made of metal.
    But being punched in the face, woo Barry’s clearly losing now.”

    Flash was hit by explosion, got a hit in his face, knife in his leg and was captured.
    You right now, Flash was clearly losing that fight.
    Actually he lost that fight, because if Arrow wanted he would’ve killed Flash with ease.

  60. Warlock Lowk December 7, 2014 at 4:29 pm -      #60

    “I wanted to start watching this series, but now I think it is good think that I didn’t. This Flash is a disgrace to comics, he can’t use his powers, he get’s hits and loses to normal human.”

    One, didn’t lose.
    Two, Flashes nemesis in comics for a good time had been really crafty human who find work around for the speed issue. One guy used boomerangs. Fucking boomerangs man. Captain cold was, before n52, a guy with a gun that shoots cold. Flash is surrounded by small time Lex Luthors.
    Three, In the show they’ve generally put him up against people who are either hard to harm, difficult to get to, or smart enough to put other people in danger to occupy him. Despite the PIS moments they at least give some reason for why he can’t just blitz everything.
    Four, I’m sure the highspeed fisticuffs brawl with Reverse Flash will eventually come but that’s like a season finale thing. Flash isn’t dbz, I don’t think he is about how fast he can speedblitz his opponents. It’s about how he uses his speed to figure out ways to overcome the things his villains stack up against him to keep him from speedblitzing him. Even in the comics.

  61. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 4:36 pm -      #61

    @Warlock Lowk

    “One, didn’t lose.”

    In his battle against Arrow, Flash, or Angry Flash if you want, definitely lost to Arrow.
    Flash also lost against iron guy, because while Flash was lying helplessly on the floor iron guy was already standing and the one who KO’ed iron guy was the woman. Well iron guy was not normal human, so I guess it doesn’t count.
    Flash also lost to the criminal with ice gun. And that guy looked like normal human to me.
    This is the three fights from the show I saw at the moment. Flash lost in every of them.

  62. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 7, 2014 at 4:42 pm -      #62

    ” Flash failed to speedblitz criminal with ice gun in train ”

    Dude… We’ve seen Flash move fast enough that people move slow in comparison. We’ve seen him fast enough to the point electricity is moving slowly. We’ve seen him do that same thing to bullets, shotgun pellets, and people. He could’ve easily blitzed him at any point…
    =
    “Yea, it seems every time when Flash fails it PIS.”

    Cus it is… You realize Flash has 4 instances(Lowk reminded me of another one)where everything seems to of been frozen in time.
    =
    “I must admit I can’t do anything against such argument, because while I provide reasons why Flash loses they all instantly becames PIS.”

    It’s not my fault you keep bringing up PIS ridden events. You saw that fight, tell me, what was stopping Barry from just taking an arrow and stabbing it into Ollie’s neck while Ollie quite literally looked like a statue? Or doing a Mach 1 punch? Or slamming him into the ground after he pulled the grappling hook arrow out of the building? Or constantly hitting Ollie while he was running around him? Or anything that would’ve killed Arrow? Nothing. Nothing was stopping him, but plot. If you can’t realize this, then that’s not my fault you can’t see why those instances are bullshit.

    Vice versa, we’ve seen Arrow quite literally almost dying after a fight with a Mirakuru enhanced soldier, who were faster than him, but still slower than Flash.
    =
    “Actually he lost that fight, because if Arrow wanted he would’ve killed Flash with ease.”

    Right, because Flash totally couldn’t of killed him at any point in the fight… You know, with the whole, “You’re a living statue to me.” levels of speed…
    =
    “Four, I’m sure the highspeed fisticuffs brawl with Reverse Flash will eventually come but that’s like a season finale thing.”

    It seems like that’s the next episode. arrow.wikia.com/wiki/The_Man_in_the_Yellow_Suit

  63. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 4:46 pm -      #63

    @CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets

    “Right, because Flash totally couldn’t of killed him at any point in the fight”

    No because if it would’ve been a battle to the death Flash would’ve been dead right away.
    Instead of attacking Flash with rope Arrow would’ve just shot him in the head.
    And yes even while Arrow was holding back in order not to hurt Flash, angry Flash failed to deal any serious damage to Arrow and lost.
    This was easy win for Arrow. Sure it took planning, but Arrow was clearly not in danger.

  64. OriginalA December 7, 2014 at 4:50 pm -      #64

    I’m thinking the Flash is going to lose this fight simply because the Flash doesn’t go straight for the speed blitz. He’s actually pretty reluctant to go straight for fighting; he talks a lot.

    This is especially noticable in his fight against the Arrow. He runs literal circles around him… doing nothing. Seriously, the Flash was just bullshitting with him. Eventually he started doing circles around him while punching him, but it still wasn’t something super crazy like the Mach Punch.

    Barry is just a nice guy. He doesn’t exactly go for the super aggressive moves. Even after being told that the Arrow has killed people, being shot by the Arrow in the back, and even seeing the Arrow fight other people, he was still surprised when he saw the Arrow torture someone. He’s got a very high moral bar. That kind of thing does influence how he fights.

    Quicksilver… doesn’t have that “problem”.

  65. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 7, 2014 at 4:54 pm -      #65

    “No because if it would’ve been a battle to the death Flash would’ve been dead right away.”

    … Rrrrrrrriiiiiiiigggggggghhhhhhhhtttttttt…
    =
    “Instead of attacking Flash with rope Arrow would’ve just shot him in the head.”

    Which would’ve been caught the second Arrow let the bow go and then stabbed right into his neck. Because, you know, we’ve seen Flash make electricity look slow.
    =
    “And yes even while Arrow was holding back in order not to hurt Flash, angry Flash failed to deal any serious damage to Arrow and lost.”

    Because he can’t just move fast enough to the point Arrow and any normal human can’t even react, because we haven’t seen him do that multiple times in the show…

  66. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 4:54 pm -      #66

    @OriginalA

    “. He’s actually pretty reluctant to go straight for fighting; he talks a lot.”

    Yes, this is backfired Flash in his battle in train against criminal with ice gun, who toyed with Flash and almost killed him. The only reason why Flash survived is because others appeared to hel him and criminal spared Flash. Criminal was so nice what even while walking away he said that Flash can counts this as his victory if he wants.
    Flash indeed talk too much.

  67. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 4:58 pm -      #67

    @CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets

    “… Rrrrrrrriiiiiiiigggggggghhhhhhhhtttttttt…”

    Yes, right.

    “Which would’ve been caught the second Arrow let the bow go and then stabbed right into his neck. Because, you know, we’ve seen Flash make electricity look slow.”

    Didn’t helped him against Arrow, who could’ve killed him with first shot.

    “Because he can’t just move fast enough to the point Arrow and any normal human can’t even react, because we haven’t seen him do that multiple times in the show…”

    Apparently against Arrow he couldn’t, because Arrow defeated him without much troubles.

  68. Warlock Lowk December 7, 2014 at 4:58 pm -      #68

    “Flash was hit by explosion, got a hit in his face, knife in his leg and was captured.”

    Oliver was dragged through alley way at highspeed, nearly fell to his death, got his ass-kicked(via several punches to the body&face, more times by the way), had pretty much every punch or kicked dodged effortlessly .
    Flash’ll heal against a punch and stab to the leg in relatively quick time. Arrow runs on normally healing speed and it shows, he is physically weakened from the effort. Flash pulled the arrow from his leg and was able to still stand. If they the lights hadn’t worked he would have recovered faster then Ollie would have.
    How are you seeing this as Arrow was winning? He not only got less hits in but the guy he’s hitting heals faster then him while he’s left tired and panting.
    And to top it all off Arrow is giving it his all against a Flash who isn’t even all there. The regular Flash has shown he could strip a mugger holding a gun to his face of not only his gun but all his clothes then drop off an cop for good measure.

  69. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 5:04 pm -      #69

    @Warlock Lowk

    “How are you seeing this as Arrow was winning?”

    Because it was Flash and not Arrow who lost?
    Because Flash could not break free from Arrow?
    Because Flash failed in every Arrow’s trap?

    “And to top it all off Arrow is giving it his all against a Flash who isn’t even all there.”

    Irrelevant. You said that:

    “Except he didn’t lose. Flash dominated the fight, every move Arrow made was countered. ”

    I checked it and saw that Flash lost and that he did not countered every Arrow move and clearly did not dominated the fight.
    Arrow was holding back entire fight, while (if I understand cituation) Flash was turned into evil angry version of himself and was going for the win no matter what.
    Yet despite all of that Angry Flash lost.

  70. Aelfinn December 7, 2014 at 5:22 pm -      #70

    Rookie, instead of telling us THAT the Flash lost, tell us WHY he shouldn’t have won. With no other reason besides the Plot making the Flash stupid, what is it about that fight that will be applicable here? By any reasonable measure, the Flash should have finished the Arrow off at a moment’s notice.
    =
    Also, are you going to keep ignoring the whole electricity feat?

  71. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 5:28 pm -      #71

    @Aelfinn

    “Rookie, instead of telling us THAT the Flash lost, tell us WHY he shouldn’t have won.”

    I don’t get it. We saw a fight, Arrow hold back and Angry Flash went all out and still lost.
    So… how could he won in that fight if he lost it?

    “By any reasonable measure, the Flash should have finished the Arrow off at a moment’s notice.”

    And if Arrow wanted he would’ve killed Angry Flash in the fisrt moment. You saw it too, Flash failed to defend himself or even notice first arrow,

    “With no other reason besides the Plot making the Flash stupid”

    Plot made him angry.

    “Also, are you going to keep ignoring the whole electricity feat?”

    No, but this feat clearly have nothing to do here, because Arrow punched Flash right into his face and last I checked Arrow is still a normal human for now.
    I was told that Angry Flash is below Flash in terms of control over his powers.

  72. Epicazeroth December 7, 2014 at 5:30 pm -      #72

    @sadot: “He lost to Arrow while bloodlusted”
    Debatable. He was actually winning. Like, a lot. Oliver got literally three hits; he was running (ineffectively cause he was fighting Flash) the entire rest of the time. The thing is, after Oliver got that punch in, Barry started fighting a lot better – so he wasn’t really that bloodlusted. Oliver only survived because he managed to grab Barry long enough for Diggle and Joe to cure him.
    ===
    @Rookie: “Still, very bad outcome. Now I even more confident that Quicksilver can win here.”
    1) It was mainly PIS.
    2) It’s worth noting that the very next episode, Flash says he took all of Oliver’s advice. The reason he didn’t just destroy Oliver is because he was a really, really bad fighter. Barry even told Oliver that after he took his advice, Barry started doing a lot better at superhero-ing.

    “Quicksilver for BankGambling Award. It’s sad, but for me DC lost here.”
    *sigh* Doesn’t there have to be some sort of consensus on who actually won for that? The rules say there has to be a clear winner, and then people can vote on whether that person gets an Award, if it was a close match. Not that everyone just says “X for FPA” at the start of a match. Plus, it’s a debate, not an election.

    “I saw how two opponents with normal human speed punches Flash.”
    Who? Was he aware they were there? Tony did it because it was a surprise attack. Oliver did it because Barry’s a shitty fighter and Ollie hit him while he was still coming up from a dodge.

    “Yea, it seems every time when Flash fails it PIS.”
    That’s what happens when you make the most broken character in comics. Maybe second-most. And actually, it’s justified a lot. For example: his opponent is literally immune to all his attacks (Weather Wizard, Mist, Girder) can make hundreds of clones (Multiplex) or can effectively debuff Barry (Captain Cold, Rainbow Rider). For Arrow, it’s PIS, Barry being a shit fighter, and Barry not being able to think his attack through.

    “Flash speed was already proved unimpressive to me when iron guy punched him.”
    When? Tony punched him literally once. It was because it was a surprise attack. He smashed him against the wall a couple times, but Barry was off his feet and couldn’t run then.
    ––
    “In his battle against Arrow, Flash, or Angry Flash if you want, definitely lost to Arrow.”
    How? He was demolishing him. He got like 50 punches in in 5 seconds. Oliver dropped to his knees. The only reason Ollie survived is because he got Barry in a chokehold long enough for Joe to cure him.

    “Flash also lost against iron guy, because while Flash was lying helplessly on the floor iron guy was already standing and the one who KO’ed iron guy was the woman. Well iron guy was not normal human, so I guess it doesn’t count.”
    That’s cause Flash broke his hand. Are you telling me that if you ran up to something full-speed, jumped at it, and punched it so hard your hand broke, you would be up on your feet instantly?

    “Flash also lost to the criminal with ice gun. And that guy looked like normal human to me.”
    That’s because Cold’s weapon can counter Barry’s speed. His gun is designed to slow Barry down at a molecular level. One hit for 2 seconds gave him 3rd-degree frostbite. Caitlin even said his cells would have died instantly if not for his healing factor.
    ===
    @Skalkorik: “if you average the speed of a 9mm bullet at about 800mph”
    This is for a normal handgun. The bullets in DoFP were shot out of glass/plastic guns, built in the 60’s/70’s. You can’t compare them to metal handguns built in the 2000’s.
    ===
    @Aelfinn: “Is there any explanation as to why Blackout can shoot electricity?”
    The STAR Labs Particle Accelerator blew up, releasing all sorts of weird unknown shit into Central City. Anybody who died that night was affected by the wave of energies, and gained powers related to the method of their death. As for Blackout specifically, he was electrocuted to death.
    ===
    @Lowk: “Four, I’m sure the highspeed fisticuffs brawl with Reverse Flash will eventually come but that’s like a season finale thing.”
    Actually, it might be next week. “The Man in the Yellow Suit” is this Tuesday (the 9th).
    ===
    OK, so I looked it up. Everything I can find (which admittedly isn’t that much; I may be looking in the wrong places) says that electricity moves close to light-speed in air. Of course, this is obviously not true for Blackout’s electric blasts, but how much slower is it reasonable to assume they are?

  73. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 7, 2014 at 5:31 pm -      #73

    “Yes, right.”

    No, wrong… Why do we keep having to explain this to you?
    =
    “Didn’t helped him against Arrow, who could’ve killed him with first shot.”

    It didn’t help him because plot didn’t want him to kill Arrow immediately and wanted us to see a fight. There was nothing stopping him from just killing Arrow the entire time Flash speed blitzed him. Nothing at all.
    =
    “Apparently against Arrow he couldn’t, because Arrow defeated him without much troubles.”

    No, he very easily could’ve. There was nothing stopping him from doing it, except plot.

  74. Warlock Lowk December 7, 2014 at 5:42 pm -      #74

    ““Which would’ve been caught the second Arrow let the bow go and then stabbed right into his neck. Because, you know, we’ve seen Flash make electricity look slow.”

    Didn’t helped him against Arrow, who could’ve killed him with first shot.”

    Then you aren’t even talking about the fight. I’m talking about the melee where clearly Flash was kicking Arrow’s ass and Arrow only just getting by enough to last. if Arrow had shot a regular arrow through Barry’s head while he mentally impaired and isn’t even aware Arrow is after him then yes, Arrow wins that.
    But the problem with that is that Arrow currently has the same no kill policy Barry has. Even going to the point that he wouldn’t kill the guy responsible for the death of his friend and the guy responsible for killing his mother in front of him and his sister.
    ===
    “Apparently against Arrow he couldn’t, because Arrow defeated him without much troubles.”

    Please Rook, claim he was winning all you want but come on. Arrow was giving it his all and was visibly exhausted from Flash’s assault.
    ===
    “Because it was Flash and not Arrow who lost?”

    Flash was eventually stopped because friends device worked. Arrow was clearly tired. Flash recuperates faster. Had they not showed up Flash would’ve eventually broken free.
    ===
    “Because Flash failed in every Arrow’s trap?”

    Explosive/tranq arrow combo, got up, vibrated it off, Oliver is in freaking awe.
    Arrow’s Retreat foiled.
    Crossbows caught.
    Only trap by Arrow was through the legs shot, which was then ripped out and with Flash still being capable of standing.
    ===
    “I checked it and saw that Flash lost and that he did not countered every Arrow move and clearly did not dominated the fight.”

    Arrow could barely land a hit. Flash landed several. And as stated before Flash’s body recuperates at a faster speed. Their only saving grace was that their friend made it to them in time.
    ===
    “Arrow was holding back entire fight”

    Please, that was facing a season’s finale villain level of effort from Arrow. And more prep then I’ve seen him do for a fight then most occasions. Only time Arrow is left panting like that is after a serious fight.
    ===
    “Flash was turned into evil angry version of himself and was going for the win no matter what.”

    Clearly he wasn’t because Flash can hit a guy at supersonic speed. He can move fast enough to disarm people and disrobe people and cross the city in moments. He can run around in circle fast enough to counter a tornado. Did you see any other that. No. The part of Flash’s brain that deals with good decision making and execution was altered.

  75. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 5:43 pm -      #75

    @Epicazeroth

    ““Flash also lost against iron guy, because while Flash was lying helplessly on the floor iron guy was already standing and the one who KO’ed iron guy was the woman. Well iron guy was not normal human, so I guess it doesn’t count.”
    That’s cause Flash broke his hand. Are you telling me that if you ran up to something full-speed, jumped at it, and punched it so hard your hand broke, you would be up on your feet instantly?”

    No, but I am not superhuman. And iron guy was standing after that, so he clearly could’ve won against Flash, but the woman saved Flash.

    “*sigh* Doesn’t there have to be some sort of consensus on who actually won for that? The rules say there has to be a clear winner, and then people can vote on whether that person gets an Award, if it was a close match. Not that everyone just says “X for FPA” at the start of a match. Plus, it’s a debate, not an election.”

    I already don’t care about that here.

    “How? He was demolishing him. He got like 50 punches in in 5 seconds. Oliver dropped to his knees. The only reason Ollie survived is because he got Barry in a chokehold long enough for Joe to cure him.”

    Arrow was holding back because he didn’t want to kill Angry Flash. Angry Flash went all out. Angry Flash lost, because Arrow hold him so others can cure him , all of that while Flash was trying to break free with no success at that.
    Counts as win.

    “That’s because Cold’s weapon can counter Barry’s speed. His gun is designed to slow Barry down at a molecular level. One hit for 2 seconds gave him 3rd-degree frostbite. Caitlin even said his cells would have died instantly if not for his healing factor.”

    So this weapon is so effective that it affects Flash even before criminal with ice gun pulls the trigger? Because Flash talked to criminal, criminal explained that he found Flash weakness and then shot the train. Obviously if Flash could he would’ve speedblitz criminal to save the train, but he didn’t so clearly he couldn’t do it. Otherwise Flash just a retarded idiot.
    Now… one, two, three and I guess “PIS” word coming to save Flash.

  76. Aelfinn December 7, 2014 at 5:45 pm -      #76

    “Of course, this is obviously not true for Blackout’s electric blasts, but how much slower is it reasonable to assume they are?”

    I mean, you could just look at my calc, lol. That comes to about 1/100 the speed of light if we assume that microsecond-blast crossed 10 feet.
    =
    EDIT
    “Obviously if Flash could he would’ve speedblitz criminal to save the train, but he didn’t so clearly he couldn’t do it. Otherwise Flash just a retarded idiot”

    Holy shit, you are literally describing PIS. Did you not see the Flash save everyone in the train right after that?

  77. Warlock Lowk December 7, 2014 at 5:56 pm -      #77

    If I’m ever able to to get up enough clips to make a video of the stuff Flash has done I’m titling it “Damn it Rookie” and the description will read “See what you made me do.”
    My video editor is as shit as my internet can be. Thats like an hours worth of just trying to find the right ones.

  78. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 7, 2014 at 6:01 pm -      #78

    “Obviously if Flash could he would’ve speedblitz criminal to save the train,

    This is what we’re saying….
    =
    “but he didn’t so clearly he couldn’t do it. Otherwise Flash just a retarded idiot.”

    Lol wut.? Just because you don’t do something, even if you’ve been shown to be able to, doesn’t mean you can?

    I don’t always lift weights that are heavier than me, doesn’t mean I can’t just because I don’t do it always…
    =
    “Holy shit, you are literally describing PIS.”

    Yet he’s going to not realize that…
    =
    “If I’m ever able to to get up enough clips to make a video of the stuff Flash has done I’m titling it “Damn it Rookie” and the description will read “See what you made me do.”
    My video editor is as shit as my internet can be. Thats like an hours worth of just trying to find the right ones.”

    It won’t matter because he can’t do any of that, despite the fact we’ve seen him do it, because he didn’t just kill Arrow in their fight…

  79. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 7, 2014 at 6:03 pm -      #79

    Hey guys, Darkseid(mugged), Thanos(arrested), and Silver Surfer(also mugged)can’t beat up normal humans, because they lost to people(and stairs in Darkseid’s case)before!

  80. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 6:04 pm -      #80

    @Aelfinn

    “Holy shit, you are literally describing PIS. Did you not see the Flash save everyone in the train right after that?”

    Yes, after he let criminal do in the first place. So why he didn’t use speed to deal with him?

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt2CJfoZ4UE

  81. Warlock Lowk December 7, 2014 at 6:05 pm -      #81

    “Angry Flash went all out.”

    Again clearly wasn’t. Unless you actually admitting to believing Arrow having superhuman reaction time, Flash could’ve stripped him of all his gear, Flash could have drag him into a wall a speeds high enough that he would go splat. Hit him like he did the Tony.
    ===
    “Arrow was holding back because he didn’t want to kill Angry Flash.”

    And yet he was pulling out tricks he reserves for his toughest enemies and was still huffin and puffin by the end like he had just gone a round with Deathstroke.

  82. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 6:08 pm -      #82

    @CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets

    “Hey guys, Darkseid(mugged), Thanos(arrested), and Silver Surfer(also mugged)can’t beat up normal humans, because they lost to people(and stairs in Darkseid’s case)before! –
    Darkseid lost his powers prior to that, Thanos was beaten prior to arrest and it was explained that because Thor hit Silver Surfer so many times prior Silver Surfer suddenly got a weakness against anything that resembles a hammer, crowbar apparently included.

  83. sadot06 December 7, 2014 at 6:09 pm -      #83

    Yup he’s fighting Professor Zoom Tuesday for the mid-season finale: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziaQdyrdEcs

  84. Epicazeroth December 7, 2014 at 6:12 pm -      #84

    @Rookie: “Instead of attacking Flash with rope Arrow would’ve just shot him in the head.”
    Barry already proved he can casually catch or dodge arrows.

    “Didn’t helped him against Arrow, who could’ve killed him with first shot.”
    What? Do you think Oliver has a magic field that removes Barry’s powers? Barry is already proven to be more than fast enough to run up to Ollie, grab an arrow, and stab him dozens of times before Ollie can react. We see Barry catch or dodge literally every single arrow or bullet ever fired at him. He caught boomerangs last week, too. While running from Central City.

    “I don’t get it. We saw a fight, Arrow hold back and Angry Flash went all out and still lost.”
    But this is wrong. Ollie was hitting him with explosions and broadheads. The only thing we don’t see him do is try lethal force – which he doesn’t do anyway for some bullshit reason. Flash, on the other hand, had literally lost the ability to think about things: it’s physically impossible for him to have been going all-out because he didn’t have the ability to make any sort of plan.

    “And if Arrow wanted he would’ve killed Angry Flash in the fisrt moment. You saw it too, Flash failed to defend himself or even notice first arrow,”
    Bullshit. Arrow doesn’t kill anymore, which is why he didn’t just shoot him in the head. Aside from that, he was going all-out. Arrow literally had to flee to the top of a building to escape. If he was holding back, he would have simply fought harder instead of fleeing. Barry didn’t notice the first arrow because he didn’t see Oliver. He was looking the other way.

    “Plot made him angry.”
    Rainbow Rider made him angry. Plot made him not hit Ollie with a Mach 1.2 punch and splatter his brains across the street.
    ––
    “No, but this feat clearly have nothing to do here, because Arrow punched Flash right into his face and last I checked Arrow is still a normal human for now.”
    1) Why is this feat not applicable? Do you think feats don’t apply if they give one contestant an edge?
    2) We also see Barry punch a punching bag as hard as he can a few episode later. His fist goes through the bag, and the guy holding it goes flying back 10 feet. When Barry punches Girder, he also goes flying back ten feet; and Girder was made of steel at the time. Since Ollie didn’t go flying back ten feet – and Barry never went anywhere near Mach 1 – we have to assume Barry wasn’t going all out.

    Let me make this more simple.
    A) If he goes all-out, Barry can knock people back over ten feet.
    B) If he goes all-out, Barry can go past Mach 1.
    C) Barry did neither of these while fighting Oliver.
    ∴ Barry was not going all-out in his fight against Oliver.
    ––
    “No, but I am not superhuman. And iron guy was standing after that, so he clearly could’ve won against Flash, but the woman saved Flash.”
    1) Flash has superspeed. Not super-durability.
    2) I’m pretty sure Cisco said that the supersonic punch would leave Tony unable to use his metal skin.
    3) Also, Tony has metal skin; he’s not a normal human.

    “I already don’t care about that here.”
    So you’re just going to ignore how a debate works and use some bullshit voting system where you ignore all evidence presented to you?

    “all of that while Flash was trying to break free with no success at that.”
    I’ve already addressed the rest of your points in this paragraph earlier, but this hasn’t been brought up. Arrow has much more upper-body strength than Barry (leg strength is debatable, but if Barry’s not using Speed Force I’d say Ollie is still stronger). Also, Arrow is a master fighter and had Barry in a hold which prevented him from running of using his arms. Unless Quicksilver is suddenly one of the top ten best fighters in X-Men, this is not going to be coming into play.
    ––
    “So this weapon is so effective that it affects Flash even before criminal with ice gun pulls the trigger? Because Flash talked to criminal, criminal explained that he found Flash weakness and then shot the train. Obviously if Flash could he would’ve speedblitz criminal to save the train, but he didn’t so clearly he couldn’t do it.”
    1) Flash is not in the habit of instantly smashing peoples’ heads in. He wasn’t going to kill Cold.
    2) Cold didn’t exactly give Barry a lot of time to process what happened. He just shot the train. It’s not like he slowly lowered his hand or anything. Barry didn’t expect Cold to do that, so he didn’t know what to do.
    3) What could he have done? Caught the blast of concentrated negative heat?
    4) Why do you think he was unable to speedblitz? You seem to think Barry’s powers magically disappear whenever he’s in a fight. It’s much more logical to assume that he doesn’t like to kill and that the CW needs a meaningful conflict.

    “Now… one, two, three and I guess “PIS” word coming to save Flash.”
    Yeah. Do you think PIS is something rare? It’s in literally every work of fiction longer than two pages.
    ===
    @Original: “Barry is just a nice guy. He doesn’t exactly go for the super aggressive moves.”
    Doesn’t FP have a rule specifically removing CIS that would lead to a loss?
    ===
    @Aelfinn: “I mean, you could just look at my calc, lol.”
    Your calc was before my post… But OK. It seems a bit high, but Barry was basically supercharged right then. We know he ran from Central to Starling pretty quickly, but we don’t know how much time that took. Central to Starling should be around 2,000 miles (Missouri to California) give or take a couple hundred.

  85. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 7, 2014 at 6:24 pm -      #85

    “Darkseid lost his powers prior to that”

    No counter to stairs?
    =
    “Thanos was beaten prior to arrest ”

    And that’s stopping him from snapping steel chains how?
    =
    “it was explained that because Thor hit Silver Surfer so many times prior Silver Surfer suddenly got a weakness against anything that resembles a hammer, crowbar apparently included.”

    And that somehow means SS star level of durability goes out the window, how exactly?

    Lets not forget, Black Panther has put SS in an armbar and Spidey and DD have kicked him off of his board before too.

  86. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 6:29 pm -      #86

    @Epicazeroth

    “So you’re just going to ignore how a debate works and use some bullshit voting system where you ignore all evidence presented to you?”

    No, if you read this thread you will learn why. But if you don’t want to read, I will say it again I don’t care who wins here anymore. With all this all “PIS” cituation it is not possible for QS to win, so why bother? Instead I try to prove (what doesn’t need to be proven honestly, since we all saw it) what Angry Flash lost to Arrow.

    “What? Do you think Oliver has a magic field that removes Barry’s powers? Barry is already proven to be more than fast enough to run up to Ollie, grab an arrow, and stab him dozens of times before Ollie can react. We see Barry catch or dodge literally every single arrow or bullet ever fired at him. He caught boomerangs last week, too. While running from Central City.”

    In that fight should Arrow shoot real arrow instead of rope he would’ve killed Flash.

    “But this is wrong. Ollie was hitting him with explosions and broadheads. The only thing we don’t see him do is try lethal force – which he doesn’t do anyway for some bullshit reason. Flash, on the other hand, had literally lost the ability to think about things: it’s physically impossible for him to have been going all-out because he didn’t have the ability to make any sort of plan.”

    Yet he pressed a button and arrows were shot at Flash. Such thing need time to prepare.

    “Aside from that, he was going all-out. Arrow literally had to flee to the top of a building to escape. If he was holding back, he would have simply fought harder instead of fleeing.”

    Yet they came back at the same spot in which Arrow could’ve used remote control arrows to launch a surprise attack on Flash and thanks to that later injure him and hold long enough for doctors to cure Flash.

    “He caught boomerangs last week, too. While running from Central City.”

    Good for him.

    “Barry is already proven to be more than fast enough to run up to Ollie, grab an arrow, and stab him dozens of times before Ollie can react. We see Barry catch or dodge literally every single arrow or bullet ever fired at him.”

    He was clearly hit by arrows in his fight against Arrow.

    “I’ve already addressed the rest of your points in this paragraph earlier, but this hasn’t been brought up. Arrow has much more upper-body strength than Barry (leg strength is debatable, but if Barry’s not using Speed Force I’d say Ollie is still stronger). Also, Arrow is a master fighter and had Barry in a hold which prevented him from running of using his arms”

    So again Angry Flash could not break free once Arrow captured him and because of that doctors healed Flash.
    Sonds like win for Arrow to me.

    “Why is this feat not applicable? Do you think feats don’t apply if they give one contestant an edge?


    Because Arrow managed to hit Angry Flash?

  87. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 7, 2014 at 6:41 pm -      #87

    “vWith all this all “PIS” cituation it is not possible for QS to win, so why bother?”

    It’s not possible for QS to win because Flash has pretty much caught up in speed and has more powers, and is going to have more showings that are going to get more impressive as the show goes on.
    =
    “He was clearly hit by arrows in his fight against Arrow.”

    He clearly moved fast enough to make lightning move slow.
    =
    “Because Arrow managed to hit Angry Flash?”

    Cool, now try to give us a reason why that’s not bullshit.

  88. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 6:46 pm -      #88

    @Epicazeroth

    “1) Flash has superspeed. Not super-durability.”

    Found it!
    Flash do have some super durability.
    Don’t you mind if I use manga as example?
    Hope not:
    img.bato.to/comics/2012/01/16/b/read4f1480b71e017/img000017.jpg
    img.bato.to/comics/2012/01/16/b/read4f1480b71e017/img000018.jpg
    And on supersonic this caused this:
    img.bato.to/comics/2012/01/16/b/read4f1482510d03d/img000012.jpg
    img.bato.to/comics/2012/01/16/b/read4f1482510d03d/img000020.jpg

  89. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 7, 2014 at 6:49 pm -      #89

    “Found it!
    Flash do have some super durability.
    Don’t you mind if I use manga as example?”

    Yes.

  90. Rookie December 7, 2014 at 6:51 pm -      #90

    @CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets

    “Yes.”

    Ah, so you here is another personality of @Epicazeroth?
    Good to know.

  91. Warlock Lowk December 7, 2014 at 6:55 pm -      #91

    “In that fight should Arrow shoot real arrow instead of rope he would’ve killed Flash.”

    They weren’t fighting at that point. Your saying Arrow could’ve killed him while Barry was doing something else and didn’t even know Arrow was after him. That’s an assassination.
    Also if he had shot him in the same spot as where he shot the rope it would have just harmed Flash. He took arrows to the back before in training.
    ===
    “Yet they came back at the same spot in which Arrow could’ve used remote control arrows to launch a surprise attack on Flash and thanks to that later injure him and hold long enough for doctors to cure Flash.”

    Like I said before, this was not Arrow holding back. Regular Arrow does not normally have a back up incase his plan to retreat fails.
    Also the guys where riding around in a mobile vehicle in case they need to be elsewhere.
    ===
    “So again Angry Flash could not break free once Arrow captured him and because of that doctors healed Flash.
    Sonds like win for Arrow to me.”

    No that’s a win for outside help. At that point it’s no longer Arrow vs Flash. It’s Flash vs a group. If they hadn’t helped or the plan hadn’t returned him to normal Arrow wouldn’t have been able to recover as fast as Flash would have. Tired Arrow vs recovered superhuman generally does not go in favor of Arrow.
    And again Arrow was getting his ass kicked. He was not controlling the fight he was barely lasting.
    We’ve seen what happens when Flash goes all out and it involves him moving a lot faster then Arrow can even move.
    ===
    “Because Arrow managed to hit Angry Flash?”

    Captain america can hit Thor. Deadshot has can catch speedster. Deathstroke has stabbed comic flash. How exactly do these take away from the multiple accounts of other feats that overshadow these few moments? Flash has routinely shown to move faster then bullets, Arrow hasn’t. Are you saying we should just disregard those other various moments for the few?

  92. OriginalA December 7, 2014 at 6:55 pm -      #92

    You guys do realize that just because Barry was angry doesn’t mean he was completely homicidal, right?

    If he wanted to he could have killed Iris’s boyfriend. He didn’t, but he was getting close. If he wanted to he could have Mach Punched the Arrow. He didn’t, but he did put the Arrow in a couple of situations where if the Arrow didn’t save himself he would have splattered.

    The Flash wasn’t fully bloodlusted. He wasn’t completely homicidal. I’ve said it before; Barry has a very high moral standard. Even when angry that doesn’t just go away at the flip of a switch, but it was eroding quickly. The Arrow’s plan merely worked before it Barry’s morals could completely erode.

    Also about the Train with Captain Cold… SEVERAL people have called Barry out on that. That was Barry being flat out dumb in-character. He isn’t good at being a hero. He just happens to be quick enough to keep just one step ahead of complete disaster. That was kinda the whole point of the episode “Flash vs Arrow”. Barry doesn’t really think things through and just relies on raw speed and it gets him into trouble. That’s why the Arrow’s plan worked against him and it is also why Barry didn’t turn the Arrow into paste… He’s cocky, and when he was angry he was even more so.

    I’d also like to point out that in the follow up episode to Flash vs Arrow, on The Arrow show where Flash goes to Starling City and helps out over there, Flash’s support crew admit that they didn’t really take the whole hero thing seriously like a life or death situation; that it was a game. By the time Oliver and his crew bludgeoned it into their heads that being a hero tends to be a messy, bloody, extremely deadly business many of them were noticeably saddened. The Flash just has a completely different dynamic when it comes to dealing with enemies compared to most heroes. Modern media tends to be pretty gritty. The Flash is more lighthearted than that, and it significantly impacts his character as well as his fighting style.

    “Doesn’t FP have a rule specifically removing CIS that would lead to a loss?”

    Yes. Now that I’ve double checked them.

  93. the_man_with The_Answers December 7, 2014 at 8:04 pm -      #93

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmJa5cv3kZM

    Calcing the time dilation in that video based off of 9x19mm rounds going at 390m/s over a distance of, we’ll say 5 meters (Some people were a little closer, some were a little farther).

    The scene, from when the weapons are fired to when the bullets are just at the X-men is about 110 seconds. Bullets at that speed would reach their targets in about 0.0128 seconds. Which Quicksilver was experiencing time about 8,600x slower. Which means, in that state, just walking at a normal pace he would be moving at about 14,600m/s. Running would be 41,700m/s, human sprinting would be about 78,200m/s. And he can clearly move at super speed within the “slowed time” which gives you some ludicrous speeds.

  94. Warlock Lowk December 7, 2014 at 8:47 pm -      #94

    “Yes, after he let criminal do in the first place. So why he didn’t use speed to deal with him?”

    Alright lets play the assume pis isnt a thing game.
    Possible reasons
    A. Captian Cold has supersonic reflexes.
    B. Barry is a sadistic hero and is willing to let people be put in the biggest danger possible so he can then save them.
    C. Barry is actually slower then a regular human but everybody including all the bullets just pretend that he is moving really fast as an elaborate prank.
    Or
    D. New superhero Freezes up when guy acrually goes through with his crazy plan… I could’ve used chokes but I rarely get a chance for an Ice pun.

    Choose wisely you will be graded.

  95. OriginalA December 7, 2014 at 9:14 pm -      #95

    “D. New superhero Freezes up when guy acrually goes through with his crazy plan… I could’ve used chokes but I rarely get a chance for an Ice pun.”

    That would be almost as absurd as some nerdy guy, who always ran from fights and never even learned how to throw a proper punch, suddenly getting super speed from exotic matter that originated from a particle accelerator exploding.

  96. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 7, 2014 at 9:39 pm -      #96

    “Ah, so you here is another personality of @Epicazeroth?
    Good to know.”

    Guess what, it doesn’t matter if Epicrazeroth is bothered by it or not. It has nothing to do with Flash and is irrelevant. Unless you show us FLASH, not some random manga character, having super human durability it’s irrelevant. So show us something from the CW’s Flash telling us he has super human durability. Otherwise it doesn’t matter what you show us.
    =
    @TMWTA These guys also calced it. www.wired.com/2014/06/whos-faster-flash-or-quicksilver/ But it doesn’t seem anywhere near as fast as that.
    =
    ” Are you saying we should just disregard those other various moments for the few?”

    Yup, just like SS, Darkseid, and Thanos all getting mugged/arrested. So, it doesn’t matter that we’ve seen them all take on beings much stronger, all that matters is that we’ve seen them get taking down by much much weaker

  97. Cassie Hack December 7, 2014 at 9:42 pm -      #97

    I thought that the scene in DoFP was slowed down to show us how QS sees the world when using his powers. Like he isn’t using super speed during the time slow, it’s just that to him that’s how the world looks.

  98. The Terror December 7, 2014 at 9:58 pm -      #98

    @Rookie
    As taken from the debating rules them self this is PIS.
    “PIS is known to be a plot device to alter and/or otherwise give a combatant advantages or disadvantages that are not considered to be part of his/her standard power set or equipment. These are not to be used in battles unless they are specifically addressed by the scenario, or are otherwise associated with the combatants current incarnation.”

  99. Ragnorke December 7, 2014 at 10:50 pm -      #99

    Ok everyone, this is turning into a shitstorm when there’s really no need for it to.

    I just wanna start off by saying that EVERY character has shitty PIS showings. Not just in comics and animated series, but in EVERYTHING.
    Writers often have a hard time accurately understanding what a super power like super speed can allow you to accomplish.

    As a general rule of thumb, we take good feats into consideration, and ignore bad feats.
    Forexample, people like Thor or Superman sometimes “struggle” to do some pathetically easy things… Despite there being no canon reason as to why they’re so depowered.
    That is why PIS is a debating rule. We ignore bad feats, and stick to good feats, because all characters function and fight at MAXIMUM potential, as far as BankGambling is concerned.

    Now, as for actual feats
    The static shock feat, and the bomb feat, put Flash above quick silver as far as I’m concerned.
    I honestly don’t think calculations are required.

    Its also important to note that flash has a certain degree of hax, and can do more than just basic speed.
    Quicksilver would need to have a significant speed leed to actually win.
    Meaning if they were both even, my money would be on Flash, all day everyday.

  100. Friendlysociopath December 7, 2014 at 11:19 pm -      #100

    See Rookie? Told you way back in those first few comments incarnation makes a difference didn’t I? :p

    That said, guys, the Flash being bad at fighting and cocky can’t be entirely chalked up to PIS.

    True, PIS makes him its (various synonyms for street worker) but he’s legitimately not good at being a superhero from those clips. Him not knowing what to do and not being able to outplan his enemies or think quickly enough to counter criminals isn’t PIS, that’s his own flaw.

    Now the Arrow vs Flash fight? Total PIS, there’s times in that fight where Flash is running circles around the Arrow and doing… well, nothing really.

    That said, he’s clearly got speed feats that put him near or surpassing Quicksilver’s level- depending how strongly you want to argue about that electric shock attack.

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