Senator Armstrong Vs Red Hulk

Senator Armstrong Vs Red Hulk

Suggested by Jake_Uzumaki

For this fight we have from Metal Gear, Senator Armstrong facing off against General Thaddeus Thunderbolt Ross (aka Red Hulk) from Marvel.

Battle takes place in the US Senate Building.

Who wins, the Nanite Powered Senator or the Gamma Powered General?

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69 Comments on "Senator Armstrong Vs Red Hulk"

  1. nsl98 December 3, 2014 at 6:40 am -      #1

    Red Hulks punches register as 10 on the Richter Scale.

  2. nsl98 December 3, 2014 at 6:57 am -      #2

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111113733/3980585-04-20-2011+15.jpg

  3. Friendlysociopath December 3, 2014 at 7:24 am -      #3

    @ns198
    That picture doesn’t exactly demonstrate your point, it just shows him clap and a big “CRAAACK”

    That said, is Red Hulk different from regular Hulk? And if so, in what ways?

    Armstrong is pretty durable, but if RH is anything like regular Hulk I don’t see how Armstrong would be able to hurt him.

  4. Jake_Uzumaki December 3, 2014 at 7:48 am -      #4

    Red Hulk has a set level of strength and isn’t quite as durable as the Hulk. His body also becomes superheated as he gets angrier. He can get stronger by absorbing energy but likely won’t come into play here and I think he lost that ability but can’t remember.

  5. Friendlysociopath December 3, 2014 at 8:37 am -      #5

    Red Hulk has a set level of strength and isn’t quite as durable as the Hulk

    Alright, I can work with that. What’s his set level of strength and how durable is he?

  6. nsl98 December 3, 2014 at 8:40 am -      #6

    Oh shoot! The wrong picture posted.
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/11113/111133231/4187645-red+hulk+17.jpg

  7. Jake_Uzumaki December 3, 2014 at 8:45 am -      #7

    Somewhere in the thousands of tons range, it’s hard to say for sure as most of his strength feats come from fights and I can’t think of any real lifting feats off the top of my head.
    He’s pretty much immune to any blunt force trauma, it’s cutting and slicing stuff he has trouble with, Wolverines claws a knife from Punisher, but I don’t know how much blunt force he can take since loosing the Loeb Force.

  8. nsl98 December 3, 2014 at 9:08 am -      #8

    @Jake
    Probably as much as base hulk, right? As I understood it, Red Hulk is nothing compared to the Hulk since that one dude stopped writing his issues.

  9. Jake_Uzumaki December 3, 2014 at 9:30 am -      #9

    Roughly, he and Armstrong should be in the same ballpark give or take

    The writer your thinking of is Jeph Loeb (hence Loeb Force) after Loeb stopped writing Rulk he had his energy absorption taken away, got ko’d by a not giving a shit Wonder Man, trashed by Iron Man, humiliated by Thor, among other things putting him in his place (somewhere above Ben Grimm but below guys like Thor Hyperion and peak Hulk)

  10. Friendlysociopath December 3, 2014 at 10:01 am -      #10

    Roughly, he and Armstrong should be in the same ballpark give or take

    Really? Armstrong doesn’t do anything nearly that impressive in his game.

  11. Rookie December 3, 2014 at 10:15 am -      #11

    Rulk was able to beat Silver Surfer with casual ease:
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/52246/1494737-red_hulk_09.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/135592/2956307-2397680734-15786.jpg
    And Armstrong needs energy to power up.
    Yeah, not much hope for Armstrong.

  12. Friendlysociopath December 3, 2014 at 10:32 am -      #12

    And Armstrong needs energy to power up.

    Well he would be powered up, optimal combat rule and all of that. It’s just nowhere near enough.

  13. Rookie December 3, 2014 at 10:35 am -      #13

    @Friendlysociopath

    “Well he would be powered up, optimal combat rule and all of that.”

    What stops Rulk from stealing it?

  14. nsl98 December 3, 2014 at 10:36 am -      #14

    Cuz Rulk lost that ability.

  15. Jolttra December 3, 2014 at 12:14 pm -      #15

    This seems incredibly one sided. Armstrong is fast or strong enought to fight Rulk head on. He barley stood up to Sloth who is no wear near as strong. And he does become super heated. I really don’t see how Armstrong could pull this off.
    Edit: Wrong Armstrong. I was thinking of the Full Metal Alchemist series.

  16. Friendlysociopath December 3, 2014 at 12:28 pm -      #16

    @Jolttra
    Funnily enough, most of that still applies. Armstrong is tremendously outgunned here in terms of strength.
    He *might* have a speed advantage, which is debatable as the only times he ever manages to actually tag Raiden is when Raiden is attacking him and he’s not bothering to defend. Any speed feats for Rulk?

  17. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 3, 2014 at 1:12 pm -      #17

    “Cuz Rulk lost that ability.”

    Since when? Scans?
    =
    During Hulk and Rulk’s first fight they triggered the San Andreas Fault. He’s jumped out of orbit and survived reentry. Rulk’s also killed Grandmaster who was an Eldar of the Universe.

    Pretty much everything else is just fights, like against Jugger-Colossus, Hulk, Thor, etc.

  18. Jake_Uzumaki December 3, 2014 at 1:31 pm -      #18

    “Armstrong doesn’t do anything nearly that impressive in his game.”

    Didn’t he lift a multithousand ton mech or something?

    @CH1C4N0444
    I’ve been looking for the scans it was during that Intellegencia mess, Banner took the ability from Ross because it made the Red Hulk form unstable and made him lose control.
    After losing it like I said he got trashed by Thor casually, Wonderman put him in a sleeper hold and Rulk was helpless to stop him even though he’s made of ionic energy (which shows he does not have energy absorbtion anymore) and even Iron Man trashed Rulk after he lost it.
    Basically he was violently retconned into the bitch of anyone who fought him that was a good guy.

  19. nsl98 December 3, 2014 at 1:40 pm -      #19

    It’s a good thing Armstrong’s not a good guy then.

  20. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 3, 2014 at 1:40 pm -      #20

    “I’ve been looking for the scans it was during that Intellegencia mess, Banner took the ability from Ross because it made the Red Hulk form unstable and made him lose control”

    I’ll have to look for it then.
    =
    “(which shows he does not have energy absorbtion anymore”

    Could just be that he just doesn’t feel like absorbing energy as much anymore and wants to rely on his actual fighting skills?
    =
    In other news, Thanos vs Hulk #1 came out today. Seems like next issues going to have them clash. Seems to take place not too far back in the past(Banner’s still a SHIELD agent).

  21. The Terror December 3, 2014 at 2:11 pm -      #21

    Armstrong loses badly.

  22. Aelfinn December 3, 2014 at 2:34 pm -      #22

    It’s Raiden who lifts and throws multi-ton mechs, but it’s clear that Armstrong is just as strong, if not stronger than Raiden. Armstrong can also punch giant mechs so hard that they blow up. Not to mention that he’s also strong enough to punch the ground hard enough to make giant spurts of lava shoot out. If you apply any sort of physics to it (even though it doesn’t make sense), it would require earthquake-level strength to do that.

    Speaking of which, the Rulk’s whole “earthquake punch” is rather inconsistent. Enough to throw the feat out? Maybe, but it’s unclear.

  23. nsl98 December 3, 2014 at 2:42 pm -      #23

    @Aelfinn
    What do you mean by inconsistent? That’s just how destructive Rulk’s fights can be. Spider-Man can liquidate humans with a punch, but he’s always holding back. Maybe Rulk enjoys playing with his opponents.

  24. Friendlysociopath December 3, 2014 at 3:04 pm -      #24

    Not to mention that he’s also strong enough to punch the ground hard enough to make giant spurts of lava shoot out

    I think that was clarified to be energy, not lava. Here’s his fight with Sam in the DLC btw
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRT-ndlz1f0

    Speaking of which, notice how Sam’s sword is doing jack-all to him through his nanomachines? Yet when Raiden gets it, suddenly it works?

  25. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 3, 2014 at 3:19 pm -      #25

    “Speaking of which, the Rulk’s whole “earthquake punch” is rather inconsistent. Enough to throw the feat out? Maybe, but it’s unclear.”

    Not really. He doesn’t have too many feats, but he’s fought a lot of people like Terrax, SS, Hulk, Thor, Jugger-Colossus, etc and won. The few feats he have(that aren’t “he beat x and y”)are the earthquake feat and triggering San Andreas Fault.

  26. The Terror December 3, 2014 at 3:40 pm -      #26

    “Speaking of which, notice how Sam’s sword is doing jack-all to him through his nanomachines? Yet when Raiden gets it, suddenly it works?”
    Sam did successfully cut off Armstrong’s arm, but Raiden was also in Jack The Ripper mode and I believe he is physically stronger iirc.

  27. Alpha or Omega December 3, 2014 at 4:18 pm -      #27

    @Rookie
    “Rulk was able to beat Silver Surfer with casual ease”
    /
    To be fair on that one, the Silver Surfer was fighting against Terrax and he did lose his Surfboard(though Surfer could have easily fixed it)
    /
    @Jake
    Wolverine’s claws have also cut Hulk as well so I don’t see why it’s a negative on Red Hulk.
    Though, Punisher’s knife has no excuse though as far as I’m aware off.
    Not that it matters since Armstrong only cutting weapon is if his arm is cut off at an angle that would make his arm a weapon.
    /
    @FriendlySociopath
    Sam was also able to cut his arm off. Not just Raiden.
    /
    @Aelfinn
    As I said before in the Armstrong vs Greed fight, that’s not lava as he was able to do it on top of a building and doesn’t act like lava.

  28. Aelfinn December 3, 2014 at 5:23 pm -      #28

    “What do you mean by inconsistent?”

    I mean that it doesn’t ACT like it’s releasing the kind of energy that’s being recorded. The local town hasn’t been destroyed, the ground hasn’t moved besides the one split, and I have to ask if Rulk was punching that guy on a local fault line, because, well, punches just shouldn’t cause one localized, really deep split in the earth.
    =
    “I think that was clarified to be energy,”

    Was it? I’ve played the Sam DLC, and I thought it was just Platinum Games being stupid-awesome again.
    =
    “Speaking of which, notice how Sam’s sword is doing jack-all to him through his nanomachines? Yet when Raiden gets it, suddenly it works?”

    Even though Sam’s sword cuts atoms, for some reason it requires a lot of work to wear down Armstrong’s nanomachines. This is consistent with the end of his fight with Raiden, where when Armstrong is reduced to “0.1%” or whatever, there are a great number of scratches and wounds that aren’t healing.
    =
    =
    There’s something to suggest that Armstrong is casually stronger than Metal Gear Ray’s giant sword. Raiden can block the Ray’s sword without his sword breaking, but Armstrong casually breaks Raiden’s sword without any visible effort.

  29. Alpha or Omega December 3, 2014 at 6:05 pm -      #29

    “Was it? I’ve played the Sam DLC, and I thought it was just Platinum Games being stupid-awesome again.”
    /
    Stupid-awesome or not, we clearly know it’s not lava since we see Armstrong’s attacks have fire on his body as well as well as making pillars of flames instead of a lava rising.
    It’s more likely that Armstrong has physical attacks with fire.

  30. The Terror December 3, 2014 at 6:28 pm -      #30

    Off-topic: Would Armstrong versus Azrael be a good fight?

  31. Jake_Uzumaki December 3, 2014 at 9:31 pm -      #31

    @Alpha
    Well his claws seemed much more effective on Rulk since a slash to the eyes rendered him blind for an extended period (though it’s possible that his healing factor is just much worse)

    That said I double checked and the knife was Vibranium, which makes it slightly better than just a knife, though I don’t know if Vibranium has managed to sink to the hilt into Hulks flesh before. He got it to the hilt in Rulks shoulder/jugular regionish though I think from the angle it should have been hitting bone.

    I didn’t know Armstrong had a fire/heat ability too, that’s an ironic similarity between these two lol. Rulk gets hotter as the fight goes on so I wonder if there’s a point his heat would be too much for Armstrong to handle?

  32. Friendlysociopath December 3, 2014 at 10:41 pm -      #32

    Rulk gets hotter as the fight goes on so I wonder if there’s a point his heat would be too much for Armstrong to handle?

    Possible, although I don’t think the fight will last long enough to progress to that point. Rulk can probably just toss Armstrong into orbit if he doesn’t feel like breaking him in half, and there’s nothing Armstrong can do about it.

  33. Alpha or Omega December 3, 2014 at 10:49 pm -      #33

    @Jake
    What’s the highest temperature he can reach?
    /
    Honestly, I think it would be a battle of one guy outlasting the other.
    /
    They have no way of defeating each other in a slugfest, but Armstrong’s is definitive while Red Hulk doesn’t seem to fatigue (is he on the same level as Hulk and can keep getting stronger like the Hulk?) and doesn’t rely on an outside energy source to keep fighting.
    Unless this is a battle of politics, I don’t see Armstrong winning in the end.

  34. Jake_Uzumaki December 3, 2014 at 11:28 pm -      #34

    Rulk doesn’t get stronger as he gets angrier, just hotter (we know he can easily get to the point that he’s turning the ground around him to glass but I don’t know if he has a max temperature)

  35. OberHerr December 3, 2014 at 11:52 pm -      #35

    Armstrong’s nanos have a limit right? Because I don’t see why Rulk can’t just keep wailing upon him until his nanomachines run out.

  36. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 4, 2014 at 1:11 am -      #36

    “I mean that it doesn’t ACT like it’s releasing the kind of energy that’s being recorded.”

    Canon data>what’s shown on panel.
    =
    “Rulk gets hotter as the fight goes on so I wonder if there’s a point his heat would be too much for Armstrong to handle?”

    I recall Rulk getting hot enough to the point he couldn’t handle it, don’t quote me on that though.

  37. pimpmage December 4, 2014 at 2:12 am -      #37

    “don’t quote me on that though.”

    Too bad!

  38. Takoe December 4, 2014 at 2:19 am -      #38

    Armstrong’s nanos have a limit right? Because I don’t see why Rulk can’t just keep wailing upon him until his nanomachines run out.

    His Nanomachines, Son! were heavily damaged by repeated multi-ton strikes with a sword that fucks up atoms by the end of his fight with Raiden if that’s what you mean.

  39. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 4, 2014 at 2:42 am -      #39

    “Too bad!”

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWP9N3C46YU
    =
    “His Nanomachines, Son! were heavily damaged by repeated multi-ton strikes with a sword that fucks up atoms by the end of his fight with Raiden if that’s what you mean.”

    Multi ton? So, what you’re saying, is gigaton+ punches are going to ruin his day then, yes?

  40. Aelfinn December 4, 2014 at 2:57 am -      #40

    “Canon data>what’s shown on panel.”

    What’s shown on panel > Data

    No matter what is said in dialogue, what is shown on-panel is the true representation of what the creator’s wanted the effects to be, as that is how they define the effects of some event in-universe. Also, how do we know he wasn’t just triggering a particularly unstable fault?

  41. Takoe December 4, 2014 at 4:56 am -      #41

    Multi ton? So, what you’re saying, is gigaton+ punches are going to ruin his day then, yes?

    Multi-ton as in multitudes of tons. Raiden did manage to flip EXCELSUS afterall and Armstrong was matching his two hands with his one during one of their scuffles in the cutscenes.
    And EXCELSUS is pretty damn massive.

    Don’t forget about molecular disruption going on too.

  42. Ragnorke December 4, 2014 at 5:15 am -      #42

    “What’s shown on panel > Data”

    No. Not always.
    It all comes down to the context. Forexample, 99% of the time when planet busters fight, they aren’t actually destroying planets (or even the towns around them), but for them to be hurting each other we assume they are hitting at planet busting levels.
    What’s shown on panel in comic books is almost always a scaled down or “contained” effect of what characters can do.
    Data & claims from intelligent characters (assuming they make that data or claim with confidence) implies that’s what the writer wants us to believe, making it > panel art.

  43. Ragnorke December 4, 2014 at 5:28 am -      #43

    So… Why is this even being debated?

    Rulk has taken a blow to the face by a pissed off Thor with mjolnir, only to laugh it off without budging.

    Rulk can absorb energy from around him. Any form of energy. He absorbed silver surfers power cosmic for gods sake.

    He has JUMPED from the earth to the moon, while grabbing Thor like a ragdoll… And then jumped back to earth.

    Rulk also has genius level intellect. Just saying.

    Rulks beaten base Hulk atleast 4-5 times.

    Survived hellfire from hells minions. Hellfire being something that can burn through just about anything besides vibranium

    He leveled a village in his fight against abomination, although that’s really not so impressive compared to his other feats.

    Did I mention he lifted mjolnir through sheer strength?

    So all in all… Why is this still being debated?

  44. pimpmage December 4, 2014 at 5:47 am -      #44

    “Did I mention he lifted mjolnir through sheer strength?”

    Whats stopping someone from lifting the ground around that hammer? There should be tons of ways to get around that enchantment.

  45. Ragnorke December 4, 2014 at 5:53 am -      #45

    Indeed there are lots of ways to get around it… Which none of the characters seem to try… Caus plot.
    Anyhow, Rulk didn’t need a way around it. He just lifted it. Despite the enchantment.
    Something many have failed to do.

  46. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 4, 2014 at 12:56 pm -      #46

    “What’s shown on panel > Data”

    Tell that to guys like Thanos and Thor.

    Not everyone knows what the supposed effect is of what they’re writing about is going to be.

    It’s also not some random guy saying “O, no! Scale 10 Earthquake!” It was a computer programmed to detect this kind of crap.
    =
    “No matter what is said in dialogue, what is shown on-panel is the true representation of what the creator’s wanted the effects to be, as that is how they define the effects of some event in-universe.”

    Not really. There’s a reason the narration bubbles exist, and that’s to give us the information that’s not always shown on panel. Sometimes we can get that from character statements as well, but that’s a lot more iffy. And there’s always the problem of writers not knowing what half the crap they write is going to actually look like or what the effects of what they’re writing going to actually do. Hell, there’s only a handful of people on the site, that like you, actually know what half of this crap is actually supposed to look like and what the effects actually should be. It’s not common knowledge, let alone to writers who probably slept through physics class.
    =
    “Also, how do we know he wasn’t just triggering a particularly unstable fault?”

    There’s nothing to say he was.
    =
    “Multi-ton as in multitudes of tons. ”

    I know what “multi” means. Unless by multi you mean billions of tons and not just hundreds(like I’m thinking)then Armstrong’s day will be ruined.
    =
    “Raiden did manage to flip EXCELSUS afterall and Armstrong was matching his two hands with his one during one of their scuffles in the cutscenes.
    And EXCELSUS is pretty damn massive.”

    Is it billions of tons massive?
    =
    “No. Not always.
    It all comes down to the context. Forexample, 99% of the time when planet busters fight, they aren’t actually destroying planets (or even the towns around them), but for them to be hurting each other we assume they are hitting at planet busting levels.
    What’s shown on panel in comic books is almost always a scaled down or “contained” effect of what characters can do.
    Data & claims from intelligent characters (assuming they make that data or claim with confidence) implies that’s what the writer wants us to believe, making it > panel art.”

    QFT.
    =
    “He has JUMPED from the earth to the moon,”

    It was actually just somewhere in space. Once he was there he used MJOLNIR to fly to the moon.
    =
    “Did I mention he lifted mjolnir through sheer strength?”

    No, he did what Hulk’s done in the passed and just grabbed it while Thor was still holding on to it and then jumped into space to use it. Unless we’re thinking of different instances.
    =
    Just found a scan of Rulk beating the crap out of Sentry, Wonder Man, Ares, and Carol Danvers(as Ms. Marvel).

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111113173/3178717-rulk1.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111113173/3178719-rulk2.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111113173/3178720-rulk3.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111113173/3178721-rulk4.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111113173/3178722-rulk5.jpg

  47. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 4, 2014 at 1:00 pm -      #47

    Part 2 of the fight

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111113173/3178723-rulk6.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111113173/3178724-rulk7.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111113173/3178725-rulk8.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111113173/3178728-rulk9.jpg

    Considering two of them have feats that put them at planetary level strength(Sentry being capable of destroying multiple planets while in space… While holding back and WM who’s shaken worlds before, been compared to Sentry and Thor and was said to be capable of punching planets out of orbit)and Ms. Marvel being a potential planet buster(as Binary anyways)as well.
    =
    Yea, I think Rulk has this in the bag.

  48. Ragnorke December 4, 2014 at 1:11 pm -      #48

    “No, he did what Hulk’s done in the passed and just grabbed it while Thor was still holding on to it and then jumped into space to use it. ”

    Oh… I coulda sworn it looked like mjolnir was in one hand, and Thor was in the other hand…
    But you’re probably right.

    Also, how would Rulk be able to “use” mjolnir?
    Whether Thor in holding it or not, shouldn’t really give Rulk power over it… I don’t think it would Anyways.

  49. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 4, 2014 at 2:07 pm -      #49

    Damnit… I made a post to respond to yours Rag, but it got deleted… Here I go again I guess…
    =
    “Oh… I coulda sworn it looked like mjolnir was in one hand, and Thor was in the other hand…
    But you’re probably right.”

    Eventually that happened, but while they were on Earth he dragged Thor while they both held MJOLNIR. Once they landed on the moon he stopped using it.
    =
    “Also, how would Rulk be able to “use” mjolnir?
    Whether Thor in holding it or not, shouldn’t really give Rulk power over it… I don’t think it would Anyways.”

    Had something to do with them being in space.

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80103/3584815-thormjolnir86-enchantmentavengers12.jpg

    But as to why he can wield it on Earth has more to do with the fact that MJOLNIR is still technically being carried by Thor so they’re not really lifting it…? I just know Hulk’s done it before:

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/3/38032/2471984-hero_envy_hulk_thor15.jpg

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/38032/2471980-hero_envy_hulk_smash_thor.jpg

    Anyways, here’s a link with some fights from the first few issues of Rulk’s series(one of which is the Thor vs Rulk fight): lounge.moviecodec.com/vs-forum/respect-red-hulk-53965/

    You’ll see what I’m talking about there.

  50. Alpha or Omega December 4, 2014 at 4:09 pm -      #50

    @Ragnorke
    Red Hulk lost his energy absorption as Jake said.
    He said it was killing Red Hulk but I cannot find the scans.
    I did find a scan where Thor said it.
    smg.photobucket.com/user/Lamashtar/media/RulkHulk26-8.jpg.html
    Though it doesn’t matter if Red Hulk can one shot Armstrong with an earthquake punch.
    /
    @Ch1
    Huh, you’re right. It was in zero-gravity and that Thor was holding onto it.
    s52.photobucket.com/user/Takion_photos/media/Hulk5013.jpg.html
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111118111/3205563-red+hulk+vs+thor+06.1.jpg

  51. Jake_Uzumaki December 4, 2014 at 4:40 pm -      #51

    I think the big group vs Rulk thing was pre loosing energy absorption considering that Wonder Man used Rulk’s own arm to put Rulk in a sleeper hold
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/123129/3141209-5528901436-tumbl.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/123129/3141210-6865397861-tumbl.jpg

    Also after the orbit thing Thor came back, and Rulk didn’t lol nope anything this time in fact he even admits Thor had him on the ropes and would probably have killed him if Hulk hadn’t wanted a piece of Rulk personally
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/123129/3141210-6865397861-tumbl.jpg
    i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsRulk10.jpg
    i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsRulk11.jpg

  52. Aelfinn December 4, 2014 at 5:50 pm -      #52

    Hmmmm, I must concede that Senator Armstrong loses. I figured he would, but I wanted to see if he could be given at least something to a fair shake.
    =
    Still disagree on the data vs. feats debate. The energy released by any attack should only be determined by its effect, as anything else is an effect of writer’s ignorance or Plot. Take, for example, planet-busters being hurt by less-than-planet-busting attacks. This is clearly an example of plot if we see them get hurt by attacks of much less strength. Comic book writer’s regularly ignore past events at their convenience, and their ignorance of science should only highlight how their approach to physics should be ignored. It’s not like I said “they blew up the planet, but it didn’t LOOK right”, which is a clear question of specifics that no one should be expected to know. In this case, if they even attempted to show an earthquake, I’d concede, but the main medium of comic books (art) doesn’t even attempt to demonstrate some level of devastation.
    =
    However, I can sense this won’t be convincing. It’s irrelevant to this debate, and I recommend that we take it on a case-by-case basis, at least for now.

  53. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 4, 2014 at 8:21 pm -      #53

    “I did find a scan where Thor said it.”

    Huh, I just posted that scan and I didn’t notice it.
    =
    “Huh, you’re right. It was in zero-gravity and that Thor was holding onto it.”

    Yea, lol.I don’t see why other characters don’t do that more often. Hulk’s done it too, just wondering why more people haven’t thought of it. It’s not like there aren’t people out there strong enough to do it(Thanos comes to mind).
    =
    “I think the big group vs Rulk thing was pre loosing energy absorption considering that Wonder Man used Rulk’s own arm to put Rulk in a sleeper hold”

    Or it could be that it’s just character fluxation like most instances? Although still, good fight “feat” for him.
    =
    “is an effect of writer’s ignorance ”

    Which is exactly why I say effect shouldn’t be the only thing determining the feat. If we have a reasonable canon statment(i.e. something telling us like a narration box or a computer or someone who’s not just being dumb in the occurence, like Cell’s solar system boast)then we should take that over the words over the effect.

    Not that effect doesn’t matter either, otherwise Hulk can survive 60 ET(according to TMWTA nuke to the face without so much as blinking. But sometimes canon data>effects.
    =
    “It’s not like I said ‘they blew up the planet, but it didn’t LOOK right'”

    Like Sauro?
    =
    “However, I can sense this won’t be convincing. It’s irrelevant to this debate, and I recommend that we take it on a case-by-case basis, at least for now.”

    K.

  54. Blazing Waffles December 4, 2014 at 10:06 pm -      #54

    “Speaking of which, notice how Sam’s sword is doing jack-all to him through his nanomachines? Yet when Raiden gets it, suddenly it works?”

    I hear that’s because Armstrong only has a limited amount of energy to power his nanomachines. In Sam’s DLC he had just gotten powered-up and was ready to throw down, while he was fighting against Raiden for several minutes before Raiden got Sam’s supersword, which was why it could get through Armstrong’s not-optimally-powered nanomachines.
    /
    At least, that’s the explanation I’ve heard. I don’t think there’s any actual evidence of this in-game, though.

  55. Friendlysociopath December 4, 2014 at 10:22 pm -      #55

    I hear that’s because Armstrong only has a limited amount of energy to power his nanomachines. In Sam’s DLC he had just gotten powered-up and was ready to throw down, while he was fighting against Raiden for several minutes before Raiden got Sam’s supersword, which was why it could get through Armstrong’s not-optimally-powered nanomachines.

    That was the point I was insinuating. I just never got back around to it, Finals are time-consuming.

  56. Takoe December 5, 2014 at 3:04 am -      #56

    “Speaking of which, notice how Sam’s sword is doing jack-all to him through his nanomachines? Yet when Raiden gets it, suddenly it works?”

    I hear that’s because Armstrong only has a limited amount of energy to power his nanomachines. In Sam’s DLC he had just gotten powered-up and was ready to throw down, while he was fighting against Raiden for several minutes before Raiden got Sam’s supersword, which was why it could get through Armstrong’s not-optimally-powered nanomachines.

    Sam lacked the strength to put the smackdown behind his attack, Raiden didn’t.
    And I’ll repeat myself:
    His Nanomachines, Son! were heavily damaged by repeated multi-ton strikes with a sword that fucks up atoms by the end of his fight with Raiden if that’s what you mean.

  57. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets December 6, 2014 at 2:40 am -      #57

    “His Nanomachines, Son! were heavily damaged by repeated multi-ton strikes with a sword that fucks up atoms by the end of his fight with Raiden if that’s what you mean.”

    Unless “multi-ton” translates to billions of tons Armstrong’s kinda screwed. Which it could, but it sounds more like just a couple hundred tons at most, could be wrong.

  58. Blazing Waffles December 6, 2014 at 3:13 pm -      #58

    “Sam lacked the strength to put the smackdown behind his attack, Raiden didn’t.”

    …Despite the fact that Sam can apparently match Raiden’s strength when their swords clash. And even before he got his cyber-arm, that suit of his boosted his strength and speed to roughly cyborg ninja-levels.

  59. Envoy December 8, 2014 at 5:57 pm -      #59

    “Though it doesn’t matter if Red Hulk can one shot Armstrong with an earthquake punch.”
    +
    Rulk was fighting A-bomb, a gamma powered guy. Which means he was amped by said gamma radiation by some degree just by fighting him. Its not his base strength.

  60. ZomBraum December 23, 2014 at 6:07 am -      #60

    I come back, and my first order of business is agreeing with Aelfinn, what is the world coming to?


    When the data presented doesn’t match what is shown, we go with what is shown, because the vast majority of the time any data shown in any fictional medium is complete bullshit and it’s creator has the same understanding of physics as you might expect a writer to have.

  61. Ragnorke December 23, 2014 at 7:37 am -      #61

    @ZomBraum
    “When the data presented doesn’t match what is shown, we go with what is shown, ”

    I sort of agree. But:
    1. Context.
    2. Character.

    Those two things can make a big difference.

    1. If the context is implied to be based on scientific calculations… performed by intelligent characters… It SHOULD be taken as canon.
    Since we already know for a fact high-tier characters often hit each other with planet-busting blows without really planet busting.

    But, if the “data” was given in the form of a narration, it can obviously just be an exaggeration or Hyperbole.

    2. If we’re dealing with pre-crises Superman, and the data says he can blow up a star… Even if we don’t see him do it… We assume the Data is spot on.
    Because we know for a fact blowing up Stars is easy-casual for Superman.

    But if the Data said Batman can planet bust… well… Yea.

  62. ZomBraum December 23, 2014 at 2:33 pm -      #62

    “If the context is implied to be based on scientific calculations… performed by intelligent characters… It SHOULD be taken as canon.”

    No, it shouldn’t. Sure those characters should know what they’re talking about, but the actual writer has no fucking clue whatsoever. They’re just throwing around numbers and words that sounded cool to them.


    “If we’re dealing with pre-crises Superman, and the data says he can blow up a star… Even if we don’t see him do it… We assume the Data is spot on.
    Because we know for a fact blowing up Stars is easy-casual for Superman.”

    If there is already a superior feat shown to justify it, then just show that feat. If there isn’t, don’t take some character’s word for it.

  63. ZomBraum December 23, 2014 at 2:36 pm -      #63

    What if this situation was reversed? What is a bomb in some medium blew up an entire America sized country, and yet the scientists of that universe were saying how it was an incredible multi-kiloton explosion? We’re not gonna say something is less powerful just because of what people say, why should we say it is more powerful because of what people say?

  64. Ragnorke December 23, 2014 at 2:50 pm -      #64

    “No, it shouldn’t. Sure those characters should know what they’re talking about, but the actual writer has no fucking clue whatsoever. They’re just throwing around numbers and words that sounded cool to them.”

    If those numbers and words are the numbers and words that the writers want us to hear… Then it’s canon… Whether the writer knows what he’s talking about or not.

    Did you ignore the part where i said Planet Busters fight all the time?
    Yet they rarely ever destroy the planet they’re on?
    Why do you think that is?

    Visuals simply can’t keep up with the strength of some characters.

    ” What is a bomb in some medium blew up an entire America sized country, and yet the scientists of that universe were saying how it was an incredible multi-kiloton explosion? ”

    I would go with the Data. Not the visuals. Only if it were made by a Mr Fantastic type character though.
    The rest of the explosion could be due to a chain reaction or unstable tectonic plates or what not.
    If Mr Fantastic is smart enough to make time-machines, he’s smart enough to get his Units right.
    The end.

    ” why should we say it is more powerful because of what people say?”

    Because comic characters are consistently proven to be much much MUCH stronger than we usually see them during fights.
    Visuals almost NEVER keep up with what they’re capable of.

  65. Rookie December 23, 2014 at 3:02 pm -      #65

    @Ragnorke

    I have a question, if you have time. Which version of Hulk should I use against Saitama (bald guy) based on this feat (and the fact that he was punched to the moon and took no damage. And jumped back from the moon with no trouble) to give you the idea about his power:

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/146991/4114991-5978999341-eT2et.png
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11115/111151927/3924802-serious+series+3.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11115/111151927/3924804-serious+series+5.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11115/111151927/3924806-serious+series+7.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11115/111151927/3962701-4160431851-39626.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11115/111151927/3962702-0351951048-39626.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11115/111151927/3962703-5226058548-39626.jpg

  66. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets January 4, 2015 at 3:31 pm -      #66

    So, Rulk’s destroyed a comet before:

    tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2n16gdu&s=6

    According to this, that’s 4GT.

    www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=17952

    Pretty sure that’s around the same level of the Earthquake punch.

  67. Ragnorke January 4, 2015 at 3:53 pm -      #67

    “So, Rulk’s destroyed a comet before:”

    That calc or scan doesn’t mention anything about what the Comet material is though….
    Which would change its density….
    Which would change the energy required to smash it….

    He says “Using fragmentation energy of 8 j/cc,”.. But… Errr… Why?

  68. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets January 5, 2015 at 3:29 am -      #68

    “Which version of Hulk should I use against Saitama (bald guy) based on this feat (and the fact that he was punched to the moon and took no damage.”

    Well, depends, how fast is Saitama? FTL or not? If he’s FTL I don’t think there’s any good incarnation. I think only WWH/Green Scar has an FTL feat(it’s questionable though). Savage might and Kluh caught Nova who can go FTL, but I think he specifically said he was going at the speed of sound.

    I’ll let you know on different versions of Hulk that are canon you can pick which you think looks appropriate:

    Captain Universe Hulk:

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/104362/1984699-uni_powered_hulk.jpg

    Hulk+Uni-Power

    War Hulk:

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112612/4089313-7619775873-36738.gif

    Hulk+Celestial Tech IIRC.

    Nul, Breaker of Worlds:

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142086/4124967-9845657324-fear%2B.jpg

    Hulk+Asgardian Hammer

    Compound Hulk:

    schlitzilla.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/comphulk.jpg

    Hulk+Rulk

    Kluh:

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/6/62795/4201319-kluh.jpg

    Hulk… Hulking out… Not to be confused with this Kluh:

    i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel//universe3zx/images/3/34/Acotilletta2–Kluh.jpg

    Worldbreaker

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11120/111201214/4280868-3106515-8527796902-37101.png

    Hulk’s strongest form. Not really an alternate form, but when Fin Fang Foom blasted WB with “bajillions of megatons” of gamma radiation this happened:

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/36774/3293951-hulk_wb_bomba_g_80ft_tall.jpg

    Green Scar/World War Hulk:

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/6063/2972096-1767177694-plane.jpg

    Pretty powerful version of Hulk. One of the strongest.

    Maestro:

    www.incrediblehulkonline.com/enemies/maestroa.GIF

    Alternate Universe Hulk from the future. He’s appeared in 616 matching Warrior Madness Thor(Thor*10).

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111113173/3549506-hulk440_16b.jpg

    For some reason, Hulk and Thor are afraid of nukes now.

    Hulk Squared:

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/118689/3410421-indestructible+hulk+%2314+022.jpg

    Alternate Timeline Hulk. Instead of Bruce Banner turning getting blasted by the G-Bomb it was 616 Hulk and he turned into that.

    Doc Green Hulk:

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11116/111163912/4143062-hulk2014006-cov-32692.jpg

    Hulk+Super smarts. In my opinion the scariest Hulk since he was having wet dreams of killing Earth’s heroes… Literally…

    House of M Hulk

    i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel//universe3zx/images/d/d2/Acotilletta2–Hulk_(House_of_M)_442.jpg

    Nothing noticeably different from 616, other than he became the leader of a country.

    There’s really no other interesting(or at least not your standard Hulk)canon(although Squared, House of M, and Maestro are questionable)incarnations I can think of at the moment.

    There’s some I’m somewhat confused on though. Devil Hulk, Guilt Hulk, and Beast Hulk. I’ve seen conflicting sources on these three as to if they’re the same thing or all different incarnations and if they’re Bruce Banner or his dad David Banner.

    Here are some noncanon incarnations to consider

    Space Hulk was kinda cool. Really OP though since he killed that universe’s Watchers(held the universe together)

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/144443/4194473-3936637605-28750.jpg

    Guy was considered on the level of that universes Galactus. Considering he effortlessly killed people who were holding the universe together, doesn’t seem too far fetched.

    Hulk 2099

    i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel//universe3zx/images/1/12/Hulk_2099AD.jpg

    Don’t know enough about him to tell you anything worthwhile.

    Worldbreaker Hulk

    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/78905/1494690-1070120_hulkalt01_super.jpg

    Hulk+Power Cosmic

    Ultimate Hulk

    img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061025192012/marveldatabase/images/f/f5/Ultimates_Vol_1_5_Textless.jpg

    Don’t know too much about him either.

    Zombie Hulk

    www.bamkapow.com/bk_images/2008/06/05/hulk-amazing-feats/Galactusy-Marvel-Zombies-05.jpg

    Ate Galactus or something. Not too knowledgeable on him.

    Well, that’s about all I can think of.
    =
    “He says “Using fragmentation energy of 8 j/cc,”.. But… Errr… Why?”

    I’m not the guy who did the calc or know physics, ask him, not me.

  69. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets January 5, 2015 at 3:44 am -      #69

    Well, I left a comment with a bunch of Hulk incarnations and stuff. It’s under moderation, ignore it. Here’s a another list with more incarnations(both canon and noncanon)from comicvine:

    www.comicvine.com/hulk/4005-2267/forums/what-are-the-list-of-types-of-hulks-420587/

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