Imperium of Man Vs Zeon & Earth Federation

Imperium of Man Vs Zeon & Earth Federation

Suggested by Sauroposeidon

It is the 742nd year of the 41st millenium, the time of the Damocles Crusade and the Imperium of Man (Warhammer 40K) has dispatched a fleet to reclaim Tau territory. When they arrive at the appropriate system, however, they find what appears to be Earth! Attempts to investigate with long range sensors, drones, and so forth result in an electronics dead zone primarily around Earth.. something bizarre is going on.

The year is UC 0079. A half century has passed since Earth began moving is burgeoning population in to gigantic orbiting space colonies. Above the planet float hundreds of enormous cylinders with artificial living environments so that people can live as though they were on Earth. 11 Months ago, the cluster of colonies furthest from the Earth, called Side 3, declared itself the Principality of Zeon and launched a war of independence against the Earth Federation.

Zeon has recently been pushed back off of Earth after a long stalemate and their war now takes place in the coldness of space.. Unexpectedly, that is when they meet the fleet sent by the Imperium of Man, which has come to investigate.

It is clear to the Imperium fleet at these are not members of their faction, and that this strange system is much like their precious Holy Terra. They suspect that this system in fact has been influenced by the Tau, with their abundance of advanced robotic “mobile suits.” They begin their operation as planned.

General Revil and Degwin Zabi immediately sign a new peace treaty, to join forces against the Imperium Fleet.

Rules:

The Imperium desires to capture the system, not destroy it.

They may only use the fleet they’ve sent. Although if the One Year War era Earth wins this, discussion on what happens afterwards may occur.

The Antarctic Treaty is essentially no longer in action for operations against the Imperium, but is if the area of battle involved involves a colony or city. The two factions won’t nuke themselves and won’t allow the other to nuke them either just for the sake of vaporizing a few enemies.

Everything both Gundam sides have at their disposal after the Battle of Odessa is available. Technology which was developed and continues to be developed will continue along their proper timelines.

Bonus:

How will the Tau react? Will the Imperium sign a treaty with Earth if they win? How does this effect future events in 40k and UC Gundam?

Related Posts:



Read before commenting! We welcome constructive comments and allow any that meet our common sense criteria. This means being respectful and polite to others. It means providing helpful information that contributes to a story or discussion. It means leaving links only that substantially add further to a discussion.

Comments being disrespectful to others or otherwise violating what we believe are common sense standards of discussion can lead to the banhammer getting used. You can read more about our comments policy here.



1 2 Next »

116 Comments on "Imperium of Man Vs Zeon & Earth Federation"

  1. Rookie December 8, 2014 at 6:57 am -      #1

    Cyclonic torpedoes…

    “The Imperium desires to capture the system, not destroy it.”

    No then.
    Hm…
    How can Zeon & Earth Federation counter psykers?

    How many ships IoM have at their side?

  2. Sauroposeidon December 8, 2014 at 8:24 am -      #2

    Scenario is basically “Can they hold out as long as the Tau?” It’s more of a gauntlet/what if.. but we have no classification.

    The crusade only had a handful of ships. Although IoM fleets are never large, this one wasn’t as big as a normal one even. It was only roughly six ships, I think. I don’t recall if my Tau book has the exact number but it’s behind a shit ton of boxes at the moment since I had to clear out the garage. So I’ll use a wiki instead.

    wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Damocles_Crusade

    It lists eight of various classes, as well as their ground forces.Which will probably be more important since most of the Federation and Zeon’s space forces consist of what are already considered outdated ships by this period,mainly the Musai and the Salamis. Neither of which are well armored, although they are nimble.

    Not sure if Admin is paying attention, but there was a star trek match I suggested a while ago.. which out of the handful of matches I suggested I thought was the best one, involving The Dominion. Are there any plans to use that one or not? As I’m actually quite interested in seeing how that one plays out.

  3. Rookie December 8, 2014 at 8:41 am -      #3

    @Sauroposeidon

    Are there any novels about Damocles Crusade? I could’ve find a clear feats for W40K then.

    I can’t find something in wiki. Do they have nova cannons? And do they have members officio assassinorum to deploy (aside from whose who supposed to watch over officers)?

  4. Sauroposeidon December 8, 2014 at 9:24 am -      #4

    “How can Zeon & Earth Federation counter psykers?”

    I don’t think psykers are an issue. I think tanks and mechs are the issue. Although I specifically selected this era because it’s literally the only point in the gundam franchise where combined arms are still used.

    While my love for the Imperial Guard has greatly diminished, I still think ground fights involving them are some of the more interesting debates on BankGambling. One Year War Era Gundam has a lot of.. frankly weird vehicles. Such as the Cui armored personnel carrier, and the Magella Attack Tank.These vehicles aren’t just abundant. they actively outnumber the giant robots by a very large margin during this period. At least on the Federation side. Although the standard RGM-79 GM will be on the front lines soon, for a while at least this fight will be able to focus on the elements of Gundam that don’t involve two legs and a beam saber.

  5. Rookie December 8, 2014 at 10:06 am -      #5

    Imperial weapons ranges: forums.spacebattles.com/threads/40k-source-and-feats-thread.235176/#post-8614608
    Ship point defence: forums.spacebattles.com/threads/40k-source-and-feats-thread.235176/page-4#post-10741418
    Firepower feats: forums.spacebattles.com/threads/40k-source-and-feats-thread.235176/page-4#post-10741680
    Graviton Nova shells:forums.spacebattles.com/threads/40k-source-and-feats-thread.235176/page-12#post-12645337

  6. Rookie December 8, 2014 at 10:09 am -      #6

    Big Zam:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC4yNvAIH2U

  7. General Joshua Hundell of the Trans-Dimentional Fleet December 8, 2014 at 10:49 am -      #7

    Normaly I’d make joke about giant robots with lightsabers making any argument invalid, but i’m more interested to see this play out.

  8. Sauroposeidon December 8, 2014 at 1:26 pm -      #8

    Yeah once that beam-to-rocket rifle is perfected I don’t see how team gundam loses..

    Also, more Big Zam for the lulz!

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq3MKQCXsUQ

    God damn I love Big Zam.

  9. Rookie December 8, 2014 at 1:34 pm -      #9

    @Sauroposeidon

    “God damn I love Big Zam.”

    He needs a match someday. Maybe against Bolo Bolo MK. XXXIV perhaps ,he is the same as 33, only bigger, faster with better armor and with this:

    “When he finally broke into a clearing, the sight he was presented with inspired a great pounding in his chest. There it was, the Mark XXXIV. His Mark XXXIV! God, what a beauty! He’d only seen them on the testing range. But here, in this pristine natural setting, it looked like an armed city that had floated down out of the clouds. The twin Hellbores jutted out; the shiny new mortars glistened in the daylight. And the Hellrails . . . They stuck straight up giving the appearance of invulnerable towers. The Hellrails were the latest development on the Bolos. That’s what made it a Mark XXXIV. These were not the puny railguns mounted by the outdated local militia tanks, the Templars. These were advanced Bolo railguns, more powerful than any other mobile land weapon in the known universe. The twin Hellrails were sixty meters long and were designed for knocking out enemy ships even before they entered orbit. Each delivered a bolt of ninety megatons. How could the Kezdai stand up to such firepower?”

    “As my personality routines integrate for the first time with the rest of my systems I recall memories mine and yet not mine, of months of assembly and testing leading up to this moment, each dutifully recorded and logged by my various subsystems, and before that, by the assembly bay computers. It is a curious sensation to recall every detail of my own creation, from the laying of my durachrome keel to the final installation of my 90 megaton Hellrails, already test-fired at the White Sands range.”

    “”My limited understanding,” Kal said, “puts the firepower of the Hellrails at 90 megatons per second, and a firing rate of one to one-point-two minutes per rail, depending on the thermal coupling from the plasma, the cooling mix used, and the exact efficiency of the cooling system.””

    Or maybe against some Eldar Titan or Necron Monolith…

  10. Sauroposeidon December 8, 2014 at 2:34 pm -      #10

    “He needs a match someday. Maybe against Bolo Bolo MK. XXXIV perhaps ,he is the same as 33, only bigger, faster with better armor and with this:”

    I don’t think Big Zam has the armor to take what it dishes out. Anything that can get through its I-Field has the chance to seriously hurt it. It tanked a reactor going off under it,but you saw its boosters were all FUBAR’d and I’m guessing it lost fire control on its other toe missiles to stop the Gundam. It’s a tough bird, but it ain’t bolo tough.

    The closest thing OYW has to the bolo would be the Heavy Fork, Big Tray, and Dabude’ land ships.. which are all bigger, but slower, and weaker. Although they have superior range I think, due to the arching nature of their guns. I have no idea how strong the Big Tray’s megaparticle guns are. They have literally never been seen to hit anything, although when fired they gauge the ground out from in front of the Big Tray via corona effect alone..which was also the only instance I can think of ever having seen them even being fired, which was in a manga.

  11. pimpmage December 8, 2014 at 3:22 pm -      #11

    So I don’t know much about those other two factions, but the imperium’s SOP during the great crusade when encountering new human civilizations was to have them submit to the will of the God emperor or be wiped from the face of the galaxy. Any and all alien races they encountered were usually just destroyed outright. Maybe the imperial fleet could do a show of force to make the other factions surrender from the get go. Then again, I don’t know much about the other sides of this scenario. Maybe they wouldn’t be cowed so easily.

  12. Sauroposeidon December 8, 2014 at 4:43 pm -      #12

    “So I don’t know much about those other two factions, but the imperium’s SOP during the great crusade when encountering new human civilizations was to have them submit to the will of the God emperor or be wiped from the face of the galaxy. Any and all alien races they encountered were usually just destroyed outright. Maybe the imperial fleet could do a show of force to make the other factions surrender from the get go. Then again, I don’t know much about the other sides of this scenario. Maybe they wouldn’t be cowed so easily.”

    When the Federation got hit by a 5 kilometer wide beam that erased 40 of their ships from existence, their response was to send more ships. These people wiped out half of all humanity in a single week of fighting. It might be difficult to cow people who have done that to themselves.

    This also isn’t during the great crusade. This is during the Damocles Gulf Crusade.

  13. Warlock Lowk December 8, 2014 at 4:44 pm -      #13

    Aw man you guys alread big zam’d.

  14. pimpmage December 8, 2014 at 4:53 pm -      #14

    Well, the imperium could treat those two factions as lost children of humanity. They could be working to embrace them into the imperium in exchange for their undying loyalty. I’ve read about such findings in an audio book about some IG colonel named ‘iron hand’ Straken. The imperium still comes across lost groups of humanity in more modern times. Like the Squat subhuman race.

  15. GMoney December 8, 2014 at 5:00 pm -      #15

    Can the Imperial Fleet still bomb the planet? Not Exteminatus just a conventional bombardment.

  16. Sauroposeidon December 8, 2014 at 5:10 pm -      #16

    “Well, the imperium could treat those two factions as lost children of humanity. They could be working to embrace them into the imperium in exchange for their undying loyalty. I’ve read about such findings in an audio book about some IG colonel named ‘iron hand’ Straken. The imperium still comes across lost groups of humanity in more modern times. Like the Squat subhuman race.”

    I’m officially not allowing them to sweet talk the Gundam side. They have to beat them in to submission to win. They are assuming the world they found is a Tau loyalist world at first. As the fight progresses and they realize they made a mistake, maybe then things will change.

  17. seradon December 8, 2014 at 5:16 pm -      #17

    Hate to say this, but I really can’t imagine things going well for the folks from UC. With Zeon pushed back into space and the massive tech discrepancy between Imperium ships and OYW vessels, the 2 factions will find themselves effectively divided unless they can somehow shit out a Solar Ray or similar superweapon without the Imperium catching on.

    With most of Zeon’s aces already dead and the Feds still playing catch up in the MS department their odds at holding dominion on Earth and the Colonies are pretty bleak, especially since the Imperium ground troops will find themselves better equipped (particularly due to the large advantage their anti-vehicular weapons such as lass cannons and meltas will grant them against conventional Titanium MS).

    I won’t say that OYW Earth mankind can’t win, but they are definitely gonna need more Gundams AND Big Zams for this…

  18. pimpmage December 8, 2014 at 5:16 pm -      #18

    Heh, not to piss you off, but the imperium had some neutrality when it comes to the tau. The imperium only really gets mad at them when they try to expand their empire into their borders. I’ve read of cases like in a Ciaphas Cain book where the imperium is somewhat ok with tau influence existing on a planet owned by mankind.

  19. Neon Lord December 8, 2014 at 5:34 pm -      #19

    This may seem dumb of me, but how big is a gundam? Last time I heard they were Titan sized or something.

    For Damocles Gulf Crusade sources, the Farsight Enclaves supplement has the most detailed account of the ground war, the 3rd ed Tau codex has some info, there’s an old novel called Stars of Damocles that I never read, and a novel called Savage Scars which is stupid and should be ignored because of the amount of stupid in it.

    I believe the list of ships on the wiki only accounts for Heavy Cruisers and larger, since a crusade force isn’t normally that small.

    “Heh, not to piss you off, but the imperium had some neutrality when it comes to the tau. The imperium only really gets mad at them when they try to expand their empire into their borders. I’ve read of cases like in a Ciaphas Cain book where the imperium is somewhat ok with tau influence existing on a planet owned by mankind.”

    The Damocles Gulf Crusade explicit purpose was to beat up and reclaim as much territory from the Tau as possible, no negotiations allowed (that is, until they withdrew).

  20. Envoy December 8, 2014 at 5:39 pm -      #20

    “Everything both Gundam sides have at their disposal after the Battle of Odessa is available. Technology which was developed and continues to be developed will continue along their proper timelines.”
    +
    So, some MS weren’t fielded or finished because of various things. Since both sides are working together at this time, couldn’t they speed some things (Gelgoogs, Apsalus) along?
    =
    “One Year War Era Gundam has a lot of.. frankly weird vehicles. ”
    +
    Attack Guntank for the Feds and The Hildolfr for Zeon. Neither are pure tanks or MS, but they are all badass. Seriously, I love those two.
    =
    “God damn I love Big Zam.”
    +
    Once we mass produce the Big Zam….
    +
    gundam.wikia.com/wiki/MA-09_Mass_Production_Type_Big_Zam

  21. seradon December 8, 2014 at 5:50 pm -      #21

    @Neon Lord
    _
    MS sizes vary a lot but the standard is around 17-18 meters. Mobile Armors get much larger though and are usually around the 30-60 meter range (not counting the absurd shit like the Big Rang, that is)
    gundam.wikia.com/wiki/MA-05Ad_Big_Rang

  22. Sauroposeidon December 8, 2014 at 6:26 pm -      #22

    “Heh, not to piss you off, but the imperium had some neutrality when it comes to the tau. The imperium only really gets mad at them when they try to expand their empire into their borders. I’ve read of cases like in a Ciaphas Cain book where the imperium is somewhat ok with tau influence existing on a planet owned by mankind.”

    The Damocles Gulf Crusade is a well documented case where the shit hits the fan between the Tau and the Imperium.

    “somehow shit out a Solar Ray”

    The Federation already has a Solar Ray. Zeon already has a Colony Laser. Both sides have an extremely large cache of nukes.

    “With most of Zeon’s aces already dead”

    The only ones dead are Garma, Ramba Ral, and the Black Tristars.

    They still have (not a complete list)

    Char Aznable
    Johnny Ridden
    Shin Matsunaga
    Norris Packard
    Visch Donahue
    Anavel Gato
    Breniff Oguz
    Dozle Zabi
    Challia Bull
    Nimbus Schterzen
    Thomas Kurz
    Gabby Hazard
    Lalah Sune
    Ramuiko Stein
    Matt Austin
    Charlotte Hepner

    I can keep going if you like..

    “massive tech discrepancy between Imperium ships and OYW vessels”

    Even though the OYW vessels number in the hundreds, they probably won’t be able to push on the offensive. It will likely come down to mobile suit teams engaging with nuclear weapons while defending important points in space if the Gundam side wants to take down any of their ships.. although at best they may be only able to make the Battleship wary of approaching. Chances are, the Imperium will be able to spear through their space forces and push in to a ground campaign.

    ” but they are definitely gonna need more Gundams AND Big Zams for this…”

    There are things more dangerous than either. I am left to wonder what will happen if with the Federation’s help, that the Zeon are able to finish the Grand Zeong. Although as far as Big Zam is concerned.

    gundam.wikia.com/wiki/File:8366232_m.png

    The didn’t make these because they wanted to concentrate on defending their holdings, but with the Federation aiding them, the Zeon may change their mind. Especially since they would need stronger weapons for use against the Imperium. The Mass Produced version lacks the built up array of smaller guns and the i-field generator. it instead uses ablative anti-beam coating, and missiles for omni-directional defense. It packs the same gun as the original.. which sadly I just found out is in fact marginally weaker than the Apsalus III’s according to this one SD game. A shame, since I always thought Big Zam was the strongest.

    As for Gundams..

    RX-78-2
    RX-78-3
    RX-78-4
    RX-78-5
    RX-78-6 (a favorite of mine)
    RX-78-7
    RX-78NT-1
    RX-79BD-3
    RX-79 [G]
    FA-78-2

    Those are just off the top of my head. There’s probably at least a handful more. There’s plenty of Gundam models for them to build, although the GM’s in general are almost as good and much cheaper to make.

    “This may seem dumb of me, but how big is a gundam? Last time I heard they were Titan sized or something.”

    Gundams are a little bit shorter than your average Warhound.

    “I believe the list of ships on the wiki only accounts for Heavy Cruisers and larger, since a crusade force isn’t normally that small.”

    It does seem to be only one half to one third the usual fleet size we see in 40k..but that’s what is listed,and it does include lighter vessels as well. Go take a look.

  23. pimpmage December 8, 2014 at 6:39 pm -      #23

    Crusade fleets in 40k are assembled to fight wars lasting a hundred years or more. I am thinking of the Black Templars here. A crusade fleet should be stocked with dozens of auxiliary ships for supplies and mechanicum ships for production. I haven’t read of this crusade fleet in particular, but there should also be many smaller frigates defending larger ships too.

  24. Friendlysociopath December 8, 2014 at 7:02 pm -      #24

    This may be a stupid question, but don’t 40K ships carry viruses and such for specifically the idea of capturing a planet and killing the people on it?

    I don’t mean the Life-Eater Virus mind you, but doesn’t A Galaxy in Flames mention that they have lesser varieties and the Life Eater Virus was just the worst? It makes no sense for them to only have the one omega fuck-this-planet-and-everything-on-it weapon and nothing of lesser variety.

  25. seradon December 8, 2014 at 7:04 pm -      #25

    @Sauruposeidon
    _

    “The Federation already has a Solar Ray. Zeon already has a Colony Laser.”
    The comment wasn’t so much to their ability to deploy one as much as their ability to not have it vaporized the instant the Imperium gets a inkling of their intentions. That kinda instantly neuters Zeon since Imperial blockades will probably make most Zeonic operations hopeless until the Feds can get the ships off them.

    _
    “Both sides have an extremely large cache of nukes.”
    For a moment I had honestly forgotten about early UC’s love for Minovsky jamming making nuking a highly viable option, but then I remembered psykers would throw a massive wrench in that, so I’m honestly not sure how it would play out. Worst case scenario it might give them a good opening for their other super weapons if it doesn’t piss off the Imperium so much they decide to play hardball and take the battles directly to the colonies.

    _

    “There are things more dangerous than either.”
    And that’s fine and dandy save for the fact you and I both know it was meant as a joke…

    _
    “Grand Zeong”
    Certainly a formidable machine though personally no OYW “MA” garners as much fear (or hatred) as the previously posted Big Rang… though that’s mostly bias from having my ass kicked by it when I ended up picking a fight with it unsuspectingly in Battle Universe.

    _

    As for the aces I have to apologize. My memory regarding the OYW has gotten damn rusty so it automatically defaulted Zeon in space to the final stages of the war when they deployed Gelgoogs but were stuck putting rookies in them.

  26. pimpmage December 8, 2014 at 7:17 pm -      #26

    What ground combat assets did the imperials have with them in the lore? Any space marine companies or titan legions?

  27. Sauroposeidon December 8, 2014 at 7:24 pm -      #27

    “Crusade fleets in 40k are assembled to fight wars lasting a hundred years or more. I am thinking of the Black Templars here. A crusade fleet should be stocked with dozens of auxiliary ships for supplies and mechanicum ships for production. I haven’t read of this crusade fleet in particular, but there should also be many smaller frigates defending larger ships too.”

    Oh they likely have some escort frigates, missile boats, supply vessels, ect. If I recall they fought their Crusade for a few years. Cruiser+ scale ships are the only ones really listed.

    ” specifically the idea of capturing a planet and killing the people on it?”

    They have some exterminatus scale weapons but I don’t recall what. I just remember that they were considering using them.

    “, but then I remembered psykers would throw a massive wrench in that”

    They should help with the minovsky interference. Of course there’s the question of how many we can even find in their forces. We know Zeon already is considering using Newtypes to get around the range issues imposed by minovsky interference.

    “And that’s fine and dandy save for the fact you and I both know it was meant as a joke…”

    Yeah but it was a chance to introduce the Great Zeong, which likely won’t be challenged by anything shy of a cap ship.

    “As for the aces I have to apologize. My memory regarding the OYW has gotten damn rusty so it automatically defaulted Zeon in space to the final stages of the war when they deployed Gelgoogs but were stuck putting rookies in them.”

    That was after Solomon, and after the Colony Laser incident. Their two crushing loss of resources and men in space. Many aces also got stuck on Earth and weren’t able to leave months or years.

    I also think the Great Zeong is considerably more dangerous than the Big Rang. Assuming its larger megaparticle guns are actually approaching in power the mobile armors its individual bits appear to represent.

    I know I said Grand in previous posts, but I meant Great. Grand isn’t produced for 20 years, if I recall.

  28. Sauroposeidon December 8, 2014 at 7:27 pm -      #28

    “What ground combat assets did the imperials have with them in the lore? Any space marine companies or titan legions?”

    At least four entire Imperial guard regiments. Several marine chapters. One Titan Legion.

  29. Friendlysociopath December 8, 2014 at 7:28 pm -      #29

    What ground combat assets did the imperials have with them in the lore? Any space marine companies or titan legions?

    Assuming the (sourced) wiki is correct:

    Imperial Forces
    Imperial Guard Regiments of the Damocles Crusade
    17th Brimlock Dragoons Regiment
    19th Brimlock Dragoons Regiment
    Rakarshan Rifles
    Brimlock Fusiliers

    Imperial Navy Ships
    Blade of Woe (Heavy Cruiser)
    Dutchess McIntyre
    Honour of Damlass
    Lord Cedalion
    Ajax
    Fist of Light
    Niobe (Overlord class Battlecruiser)
    Regent Lakshimbal

    Space Marines
    Iron Hands
    White Scars
    Subjugators
    Novamarines
    Scythes of the Emperor
    Ultramarines
    Black Templars
    Hammers of Dorn

    Rogue Traders
    Lucian Gerrit of the Arcadius[3c]
    Korvane Arcadius Gerrit, Lucian’s son[3c]
    Brielle Arcadius Gerrit, Lucian’s daughter[3c]
    -Oceanid
    -Fairlight
    -Rosetta

  30. Friendlysociopath December 8, 2014 at 7:30 pm -      #30

    Aw, listed them but it’s under moderation. There’s 8 different legions of Space Marines present.

  31. pimpmage December 8, 2014 at 7:39 pm -      #31

    That’s an ass load of marines.. damn. I wasn’t expecting that.

  32. seradon December 8, 2014 at 7:46 pm -      #32

    @Sauroposeidon
    _
    “…which likely won’t be challenged by anything shy of a cap ship.”
    Not gonna lie. Kinda want to see a fight between it and a couple of Titans. One can just imagine the looks on the crews faces when they see the giant hostile “Titan” flying around and splitting into pieces like some kind of infernal lego man. Somehow you just know they’re gonna blame the Warp for this.

  33. Sauroposeidon December 8, 2014 at 7:52 pm -      #33

    I forgot about the Braw Bro.. at least three were produced.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SJyadYwnZQ

    It’s also a nice showing off of the Gundam

    I think the Elmeth will probably make mincemeat of anything it can get its bits to close in on.

    Most recent depiction of it (and the Big Zam) would be in Gundam Unicorn.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=–FUz9Dzn9o

    It appears from the 37-42 mark.

    More Elmeth bit goodness.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-DtjAjqbbc

    They will need to use their psykers to stop something like that from picking apart their slower ships piece by piece until they’re more junk than ship.

  34. Sauroposeidon December 8, 2014 at 8:02 pm -      #34

    “That’s an ass load of marines.. damn. I wasn’t expecting that.”

    There’s a ton of ’em. It’s why the Marines like the Tau so much. The had a lot of experience fighting them and they liked how honorably they fought.

  35. pimpmage December 8, 2014 at 9:11 pm -      #35

    Those moving space ball things… what kinda damage can they do? 40k’s voids can stand up to days of fire from 40k level weaponry. They might not even do any meaningful damage to void shielding, kinda like star wars.

    “There’s a ton of ‘em. It’s why the Marines like the Tau so much. The had a lot of experience fighting them and they liked how honorably they fought.”

    Well, it seems both the raven guard and iron hands are in this fight. That is the best news possible. The raven guard are the best of the best for stealthy hit and run attacks in all of the loyalist chapters. And the iron hands have the most haxx of the imperium’s tech commonly available to them. Those guys could probably hack the shit out of the federation’s stuff.

  36. Sauroposeidon December 8, 2014 at 10:36 pm -      #36

    “Those moving space ball things… what kinda damage can they do? 40k’s voids can stand up to days of fire from 40k level weaponry. They might not even do any meaningful damage to void shielding, kinda like star wars.”

    They can one shot a Federation battleship. I expect they’d slip under the void shields and strike at vulnerable points. Busting or jamming weapons, destroying sensor arrays, ect.

    They’re called Bits, by the way. Remote weapons which receive psychic commands from extreme range, and powered by their own on board reactor.

    “Those guys could probably hack the shit out of the federation’s stuff.”

    I’ll let you know whenever I can think of a reason that such would be helpful.

  37. pimpmage December 8, 2014 at 10:46 pm -      #37

    “They can one shot a Federation battleship. I expect they’d slip under the void shields and strike at vulnerable points. Busting or jamming weapons, destroying sensor arrays, ect.”

    Of all the things I know about 40k, I still don’t know if void shields act like a bubble around ships; or if they are skin tight covering on everything. If the latter is the case, I don’t think you can slip inside the voids at all. Also, how big and durable is a federation battleship?.That video someone posted showed a gundam fighting against them. That mech blocked a shot with his shield too. I didn’t see much of an effect there.

  38. Sauroposeidon December 8, 2014 at 11:13 pm -      #38

    ” I don’t think you can slip inside the voids at al”

    That’s actually their primary balancing weakness. You can get in under them. Probably why bombers are still so prevalent in 40k.Titan void shields share this problem.

    Federation ships are roughly the size of real life battle ships. It’s one of the reasons I like Gundam so much. 40k is guilty of this, but not to the same degree,but most sci-fis seem to have guns on ships to protect the ships. They’re small, out of the way, hidden or dinky on their hulls. In Gundam, The vessels are like real battleships. Hulls who exist to haul the largest guns you can put on them. It is still to my great displeasure that while the Imperium doesn’t suffer this effect very much, the Tau are doing it left and right with their ship designs.

    The ships are probably built out of titanium. They’re extremely old,and actually used traditional shell firing guns before being refit with megaparticle cannons. I’ll fetch some combat videos involving them so you can get an idea. They get blown up a lot so it shouldn’t be hard.

    I’ve heard that the reason the shield does so well is because it uses a beam resistant coating. It somehow absorbs the heat and energy, and this destroys the coating. A more advanced anti-beam coating is used later in the next war, which does a much better job. However, it’s also used to protect against things like the heat of an uncontrolled atmospheric re-entry. So it might just be really durable against heat. While it’s made clear that mobile suits eventually have this standard on their shields, the Gundam was made before this technology, and I don’t really believe that it has it.

    It should also be noted that the original series DOES suffer animation errors. The Gundam’s beam rifle is sometimes a rocket launcher, and sometimes a machine gun. While it did deflect that beam shot, other megaparticle beams have completely carved through the RX-78-2’s shield with out issue, like the Z’gok’s. My usual stance is that the shield CAN NOT tank beam attacks, and depictions of it doing such are usually errors from the fact that it was a low budget cartoon from 1979 that was still rife with the kind of stuff you usually see in super robot animes.

  39. Sauroposeidon December 9, 2014 at 6:26 pm -      #39

    I thought I’d also mention that despite Zeon having most of its holdings in space, it does own the moon.

    They use a mass driver to deliver resources to any lagrange point in the Earth Sphere, and Granada is well defended. The Zaku was originally intended to operate as a nuclear weapons delivery vehicle, and their standard H&L-SB25K/280mmA-P Zaku Bazooka was the intended weapon to carry the warhead. It only has a single shot before needing to be reloaded, but the RX-78GP02A’s atomic bazooka was based on this weapon. Although unlike the RX-78GP02A, they do not detonate a directional warhead, and thus are vulnerable to being consumed by the effects of their weapons.

    Zeon does continue to have a (small) force on Earth as well.

    They have a relatively minor force in Australia, which is operating mostly independently.

    There is a relatively minor force in Africa after Operation Odessa as well..but it’s very small, and they fight as geurillas.

    They have a major base in South East Asia.

    They still have California Base, and what’s left of Garma’s Gaw Attack Fleet

    After Operation Odessa they basically were space only, and their attack on Jaburo with their remaining Earth forces cost them everything they had left. After that they pulled everything they could off Earth immediately.

    Just to clarify, I had intended for this match to take place after Operation Odessa. This permitted the Zeon to have a small but recognizable force left on Earth to defend it if they got wiped out in Space, while leaving what was left of their Space Fleet untouched by the punishing blows it received due to Solomon and the Colony Laser incident.

    This would also mean that the Apsalus III, for whatever minor use it might be, has not been destroyed yet.

    I also think that means the Rhinoceros should still be functional as well, but it wasn’t that powerful of a mobile armor, defense wise. It should be able to get the Federation Burstliner mounted on it, though… which would make it dangerous to anything it encounters, if it can fire first.

    So, I think that effectively counters the worry that they wouldn’t be able to do much that someone stated earlier.

    What would be the Imperium’s first move, exactly?

  40. pimpmage December 9, 2014 at 6:36 pm -      #40

    Well now. Hmm. First they would break through any orbital defensive lines and land every troop. Then their ships would resume any lingering space fights.

    All troops would land in same general area and begin to make a base camp while fresh troops are pushing outwards. I’ve read books where titans need no startup prep after they make planetfall, and one book where they needed like an hours time to start up an imperator titan. They should be locked and loaded before descent though.

    Since 40k isn’t allowed to destroy the planets, they gotta invade, makes me sad :*(

    Logistic base camps set up at landing sites and all sorts of defensive measures are set up by the mechanicum. Like 70% of the space marine force would load up in their thunderhawks and do surgical strike missions where possible. The rest would be augmenting strategic planning and front line forces.

  41. Neon Lord December 9, 2014 at 7:06 pm -      #41

    The plan on Daly’th were three simultaneous pushes towards the capital city of Gel’bryn. One consisted of the Titans supported by some Guard regiments, another fully of guard regiments, and the third of Space Marines.

    Of the Titans deployed during the Damocles Crusade, there were 7-8 Warhounds, I think 2-4 Reavers, and a single Warlord.

    19 regiments of Guard were present in the final push for Gel’bryn.

    I do believe the combined strength of the Marines were 5 companies (500) plus Space Marine armour, transports and fliers.

    One thing of note for the Imperial forces was a comparatively small carrier force, so they didn’t have many bombers and fighters. As such, they were very conservative in their deployment.

    Oh yeah, Savage Scars turned out to be a sensical novel. I think it was the Tau one involving Uriel Ventris that was the stupid one.

  42. pimpmage December 9, 2014 at 7:23 pm -      #42

    What was wrong with that uriel book?

  43. Sauroposeidon December 9, 2014 at 8:23 pm -      #43

    “One thing of note for the Imperial forces was a comparatively small carrier force, so they didn’t have many bombers and fighters. As such, they were very conservative in their deployment.”

    If I recall, they lost most of their bombers to an unexpected Tau interceptor force. They did however begin with some.

    “Of the Titans deployed during the Damocles Crusade, there were 7-8 Warhounds, I think 2-4 Reavers, and a single Warlord.”

    I had a hard time finding the numbersof Titans. I assumed it was mostly or only Warhounds, but a far, far larger number of them. Like, dozens, since they seemed to be an important chunk of their forces.

    “Since 40k isn’t allowed to destroy the planets, they gotta invade, makes me sad :*(”

    They almost never do this in the Lore, so it’s not a big issue.

    “All troops would land in same general area and begin to make a base camp while fresh troops are pushing outwards. I’ve read books where titans need no startup prep after they make planetfall, and one book where they needed like an hours time to start up an imperator titan. They should be locked and loaded before descent though.”

    Don’t Titans tend to be prepped before launch? I seem to recall hearing about them walking out of their drop pods.

    Important locations here would be the Revil Fleet, likely at Luna II. The Tianem fleet, although its location tends to shift. The centralized Earth Federation army near Odessa, their HQ at Jaburo, California Base, where ever the Gaw Carriers are stationed in North America. I don’t even know if they land but if they did it’d be somewhere in the USA, probably in the east or south east. The Zeon Fortress in Australia, and the Zeon Fortress in South East Asia. I can not think of any other MAJOR locations, although the Odessa Mining Area, Jaburo HQ, and Luna II are all of the important ones for Earth. Luna II is in orbit but it’s the closest base to Earth. Everything else is way out there. There is also an antarctic base, but despite its size, it’s only moderately defended, and is intended to be a secret. There are of course more locations and many out posts, but those are the MAJOR ones, unless someone can think of some others.

    The question is, what would they strike at first?

    I suspect Odessa, since Jaburo is hidden in South America and unless someone tells them it’s there, or they have some phenomena sensors, they wouldn’t know it’s there.

    I’m curious as to how well their energy weapons, guided weapons, and shields will work under minovsky interference, and how well they’ll perform when having to operate with only short range communications.

  44. pimpmage December 9, 2014 at 8:48 pm -      #44

    “They almost never do this in the Lore, so it’s not a big issue.”

    Unless it is an imperial planet to begin with, they bombard the crap out of the planet to destroy all military targets and then land. If they are completely unopposed in space, they will be in low orbit bombarding key points for ground troops.

    “‘Sir!’ called one of the men, pointing out through the gun slit.
    Temeter saw a huge shadow dropping towards the horizon on pillars of retro-rocket fire, and then felt the earth tremble like a struck bell. Every Astartes in the bunker left the floor for a split second, and he heard the ferrocrete roof crack with the Shockwave. The cap¬tain peered out and saw a massive cylinder standing upright in a shroud of steam, some distance beyond the zone where the drop-pods had put down. It was easily the size of a hive-city habitat block, guidance fins still glowing cherry-red with the heat of re-entry. There came a mighty moan of stressed metals and the sides of the cylinder fell away, trailing flexible pipes and streams of white vapour. From inside the monstrous drop-capsule came the hooting call of a battle-horn, and then planes of steel and iron emerged from the smoke to become a colossus bristling with armour and guns. The ground resonated with each thunderous footfall as the Imperator-class Titan strode out towards the Choral City.”

    This quote is the only one I know of that says they are live on landing. In the ‘Helsreach’, it talks about having titans take a week to start up. In ‘Betrayer’, an imperator titan landed all alone and took like an hour to start up. In that time, a massive crowd of like 30 warhounds took it out before it’s main weapons were charged.

    “The question is, what would they strike at first?”

    Imperial ships have ridiculously powerful scanning tech that will tell them nearly everything there is to know about the planet. So, who knows where they would go for first.

    “I’m curious as to how well their energy weapons, guided weapons, and shields will work under minovsky interference, and how well they’ll perform when having to operate with only short range communications.”

    I am not familiar with that stuff, sorry.

  45. Sauroposeidon December 9, 2014 at 9:49 pm -      #45

    To quote the Gundam Wiki simply because it is far more concise than I could be.

    “The main use of the Minovsky particle was in combat and communication. When the Minovsky particle is spread in large numbers in the open air or in open space, the particles disrupt low-frequency electromagnetic radiation, such as microwaves and radio waves. The Minovsky particle also interferes with the operations of electronic circuitry and destroys unprotected circuits due to the particles’ high electrical charge which act like a continuous electromagnetic pulse on metal objects. Because of the way Minovsky particles react with other types of radiation, radar systems and long-range wireless communication systems become useless, infra-red signals are defracted and their accuracy decreases, and visible light is fogged. This became known as the “Minovsky Effect”.”

    Standard combat ranges seem to be with in a few hundred kilometers for ships. Mobile suits are usually engaged at much, much shorter ranges due to their agility. The Jormungandr, which uses visual data, doesn’t seem to be able to engage from further than 300-400 kilometers away during the Battle of Loum, even though it can clearly fire much further.

    For their battleship, this would make flying close enough to target something make it feel as if it were in a fog due to the relatively small size of the battlefield around it.

    It’s this EMP style disruption of energy that makes me wonder how the shields would react.

  46. pimpmage December 9, 2014 at 10:05 pm -      #46

    40k ships’ ranges are like thousands of kilometers.

    Also, space marines have been struck by lightning before. The person in question, barely even notices if not for the sound. If I recall correctly, he never removed his helm after the event. So his coms were unaffected. Besides, with a such a huge number of IG, there are bound to be dozens of sanctioned psykers within their ranks. Not to mention up in space and within the ranks of marines. They can all communicate via the warp.

  47. Friendlysociopath December 9, 2014 at 10:12 pm -      #47

    They can all communicate via the warp.

    Not to mention they tend to have an overall battle plan before they even hit the ground. So if communications do fail they still have goals to try for- “take that building” “blow that damn mech up” “don’t piss off the commissar” that sort of thing.

  48. Sauroposeidon December 9, 2014 at 10:23 pm -      #48

    “40k ships’ ranges are like thousands of kilometers”

    My point was that because of the effect they may not even able to target something until they’re close.

    “Also, space marines have been struck by lightning before. The person in question, barely even notices if not for the sound. If I recall correctly, he never removed his helm after the event. So his coms were unaffected.”

    I don’t know what that has to do with coms? Storms don’t interrupt radio. Cars and planes get struck all the time, for instance, with no ill effects to themselves or their passengers.

    “Besides, with a such a huge number of IG, there are bound to be dozens of sanctioned psykers within their ranks.”

    I don’t see how that helps that much with communications? Unless they re-purpose them all to be proxy radio operators of sorts, if you get my meaning. What’s the average number for a regiment to have?

    “Not to mention up in space and within the ranks of marines. They can all communicate via the warp.”

    And all their other gear? Although it might be safer for them to remain outside of the dead zones until they can finish installing shielding for their electronics after they realize what it can do to them when they go inside one.. I also wonder how long that would take, if they need to do that.

    “Not to mention they tend to have an overall battle plan ”

    Doesn’t everyone?

  49. Friendlysociopath December 9, 2014 at 10:35 pm -      #49

    I don’t know what that has to do with coms?

    I think his point was lightning didn’t do anything to their coms, so why would EMP attacks?

    What’s the average number for a regiment to have?

    I believe one per “group” or so.

    Although it might be safer for them to remain outside of the dead zones until they can finish installing shielding for their electronics after they realize what it can do to them when they go inside one.

    The Imperial Forces do have some experience with EMP attacks, the Tau use them.

    My point was that because of the effect they may not even able to target something until they’re close.

    You act like blindly firing at the enemy is not a tactic of the Imperium. Also, why exactly can they not just fire at the planet? Not every weapon they have destroys said planet.

    And all their other gear?

    You do realize not every piece of equipment can be shut down via EMP right? Guns works, armor works, swords work etc.

  50. pimpmage December 9, 2014 at 10:36 pm -      #50

    “What’s the average number for a regiment to have?”

    Sanctioned psykers are actually pretty rare, but they are most often put to military use if they are not navigators or whatnot. In the book ‘Baneblade’ one regiment was shown to have like 4 psykers of varying skill.

    “I don’t know what that has to do with coms?”

    Their coms were shown to not short out whatsoever, even when being zapped by lightning.

    “they realize what it can do to them when they go inside one.. I also wonder how long that would take, if they need to do that.”

    Whose side are you debating for lol? You seem to be giving a lot of ground. More than any debate I have seen before.

  51. Sauroposeidon December 9, 2014 at 10:38 pm -      #51

    “I think his point was lightning didn’t do anything to their coms, so why would EMP attacks?”

    Because the effect is specifically stated to interrupt communications, and fry electronics?

    “The Imperial Forces do have some experience with EMP attacks, the Tau use them.”

    So this would imply that they may need to back off for a time to refit their vessels in order to be able to operate with in a minovsky effect area.

    “You act like blindly firing at the enemy is not a tactic of the Imperium.”

    You’re not going to hit anything in space like that.

    “You do realize not every piece of equipment can be shut down via EMP right? Guns works, armor works, swords work etc.”

    I am specifically referring to the other equipment I mentioned previously which might be affected by the minovsky interference.

    “Whose side are you debating for lol? You seem to be giving a lot of ground. More than any debate I have seen before.”

    Neither at the moment. I’m feeling out how things will settle. Remember I’m a Tau guy, not much of an Imperium guy. I’m also NOT going to say that they can’t just work up proper insulation and install it. It can’t be THAT complicated to figure out a way to shield their electronics. It’d just take a while is all.

    “Their coms were shown to not short out whatsoever, even when being zapped by lightning.”

    That’s not quite the same thing as what I was talking about. In general lightning should never knock out radio.

  52. Sauroposeidon December 9, 2014 at 10:42 pm -      #52

    “Whose side are you debating for lol? You seem to be giving a lot of ground. More than any debate I have seen before.”

    Neither at the moment. I’m feeling out how things will settle. Remember I’m a Tau guy, not much of an Imperium guy.

    “Their coms were shown to not short out whatsoever, even when being zapped by lightning.”

    That’s not quite the same thing as what I was talking about. In general lightning should never knock out radio.

  53. OberHerr December 9, 2014 at 10:57 pm -      #53

    Many things on IoM ships are run using slaves. Mainly because labor is cheaper than building actual mechanism in the IoM. So the guns might actually be able to fire without power. I know the loading is all done manually.

  54. Sauroposeidon December 9, 2014 at 11:02 pm -      #54

    “Many things on IoM ships are run using slaves. Mainly because labor is cheaper than building actual mechanism in the IoM. So the guns might actually be able to fire without power. I know the loading is all done manually.”

    I was thinking more of the attenuation of their energy weapon shots through a scattered field of minovsky particles.

  55. Neon Lord December 10, 2014 at 12:40 am -      #55

    “I was thinking more of the attenuation of their energy weapon shots through a scattered field of minovsky particles.”

    From your quote above, I doubt it would do very much since they only affect EM radiation down the microwave/radio wave of the spectrum.

  56. Neon Lord December 10, 2014 at 12:47 am -      #56

    “What was wrong with that uriel book?”

    I’m not sure if it was that particular book, but I distinctly remember flicking through a book and the random two pages I read were stupid. The first was where a Baneblade somehow managed to run over a fully functioning Hammerhead, and the second was where the Tau somehow decided that air dropping hundreds of Stealthsuits on top of a Titan was somehow a good idea.

  57. Sauroposeidon December 10, 2014 at 1:10 am -      #57

    “The first was where a Baneblade somehow managed to run over a fully functioning Hammerhead, and the second was where the Tau somehow decided that air dropping hundreds of Stealthsuits on top of a Titan was somehow a good idea.”

    I remember reading that scene when it was put up in a fight too. I proposed that the hammerheads might be drones left behind to distract the baneblade, not given powerful AI and just set on a basic combat routine. Explaining why they fired right in to its frontal armor instead of a weak point.

    “From your quote above, I doubt it would do very much since they only affect EM radiation down the microwave/radio wave of the spectrum.”

    They do also effect things like plasma and light, although lasers seem to have a much easier time getting through, as they use them for communication purposes. I imagine they aren’t diluted too heavily due to their concentrated nature.

  58. Sauroposeidon December 10, 2014 at 11:06 am -      #58

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMMQggLQE5o

    Just thought I’d drop this here, since I know pimp is unfamiliar with Gundam. It’s a tribute to the Zeon faction. Thought I’d show it off a little bit.

  59. Sauroposeidon December 11, 2014 at 3:42 pm -      #59

    well, since the match died I’ll come out and say it.

    FPA for the Mars Attacks! martians, when they swing in and pull a coup against who ever is left.

  60. pimpmage December 11, 2014 at 4:07 pm -      #60

    I just didn’t really see any opposition to ground forces being destroyed from orbit since the gundam verse would be destroyed by the most basic 40k ships.

  61. Sauroposeidon December 11, 2014 at 5:09 pm -      #61

    “I just didn’t really see any opposition to ground forces being destroyed from orbit since the gundam verse would be destroyed by the most basic 40k ships.”

    Hundreds of ships and mobile suits can’t stop even 1 frigate, eh?

    Can you maybe prove that?

  62. Rookie December 11, 2014 at 5:13 pm -      #62

    Honestly I think that alliance take this. This is their home territory and eventually IoM will run out of supplies and troops. Unlike alliance they can’t replace them.

  63. pimpmage December 11, 2014 at 5:34 pm -      #63

    Frigates are still dangerous to larger ships in the 40k verse. If you can show biggaton damage outputs from gundams, I would reconsider and apologise.

  64. pimpmage December 11, 2014 at 6:02 pm -      #64

    Both of the opposing defenders are from the same verse right? Just different eras? Also, are they sourced from a manga? Or anime only?

  65. Sauroposeidon December 12, 2014 at 12:34 am -      #65

    “Frigates are still dangerous to larger ships in the 40k verse. If you can show biggaton damage outputs from gundams, I would reconsider and apologise.”

    You haven’t actually shown anything is the problem.

    “Both of the opposing defenders are from the same verse right? Just different eras? Also, are they sourced from a manga? Or anime only?”

    They are sourced from various animes, novels, mangas, model kit magazines, and video games. They are both from the same era.

  66. GreyFensir December 15, 2014 at 12:01 am -      #66

    I actually registered just to comment in this.

    Lets look at this objectively (I am both a fan of ToS Gundam and 40k)

    Consider that when the Imperium arrives both Zeon and the Federation are in the middle of a bitter and ruthless conflict. Both military forces are doing their best to churn out more machines, man-power, etc but are obviously occupied fighting the one year war.

    Lets look at Zeon for a second.

    Zeon only lasted against the federation arguably due to ruthlessness, tactics, and technological advancement, but they never had big numbers. They were ruthless but I gotta say compared to the IoM they are choirboys. I would not put it past the IoM to try and blow up any side-colony they came across if it did not surrender. Sure the colony could defend itself, but lets also consider Zeonic forces would be spread pretty thin and occupied against the federation.

    In contrast the Federation would have less of a presence in space due to Zeon’s forces holding stuff out.

    Also consider neither side would expect to be attacked by a random extra-dimensional human Imperium in the middle of the bloodiest war humanity has ever fought by the standards of the UC.

    What I expect would happen is the IoM would bust into the system, sucker punch Zeonic forces while they are already struggling against the federation, and either occupy or destroy any extra planetary colonies owned by Zeon. Zeon could put up a fight of course but at this point most of their best shit is under development or already deployed elsewhere.

    With the majority of Zeon out of the way in… I would say a matter of months they would have no choice but to join with the fedi’s. However this would allow the IoM fleet to establish a foot-hold in the system.

    From that point the IoM would go to earth, and since they cant exterminatus it, they would probably start with bombardment like they typically do, and then deploy the troops. Prolly IG, SM’s, various tanks, fighters, land-based vehicles etc. This would be the decisive point in winning the war, can the federation and what remains of Zeon stand against the IG, SM’s, Psykers, The Fleet, the Titan-Legion, and all the other war-machines the IoM has at its disposal? Assuming the IoM lost a reasonable amount of resources in taking on Zeon they would probably have yet to use the Titans since they are for land combat anyway and those things are at least the equivalent if not greater than a Zeon mobile armour, and they got a legion of them. Also consider the federation is far from 100% of its full strength at this point.

    Not counting warp-tomfoolery, psykers, etc what really works against the UC is the circumstances in which they are invaded, and I can’t see the U.C folks coming out of this without swearing fealty to the Emperor of Mankind.

    Just my thoughts.

  67. GreyFensir December 15, 2014 at 3:21 pm -      #67

    I would also like to point out that the Zeon and the Federation would have nothing to throw at the Imperium that the Imperium has not seen before.

    In areas the Imperium has things that Zeon and the Federation have never seen before. And the Imperium has fought some scary ass shit before and has managed to last. (Necrons, Tyranids, Chaos, etc.) That may be off-topic but considering the odds the Imperium faces in nearly every battle and the fact they manage i can’t see the UC being anywhere near the threat of the other things the Imperium regularly faces.

    The Nukes are the only saving grace, but I think void-shields can handle that, though they can possibly get around the shielding, but Nukes don’t really strike me as anything special against Imperium forces, and nukes can also be shot down. The Imperium will obviously be taking some losses though.

  68. pimpmage December 15, 2014 at 3:31 pm -      #68

    Sorry I missed your first post, welcome to BankGambling! Everyone is a fanboy and the points don’t matter!

  69. Sauroposeidon December 15, 2014 at 9:27 pm -      #69

    “and the points don’t matter!”

    I miss my stars.

    “The Nukes are the only saving grace”

    That was the standard weapon used before the Antarctic treaty, which is why I permitted their wide spread use.

    ” are at least the equivalent if not greater than a Zeon mobile armour”

    I think the Bigro would eat Warhounds alive if they ever encounter each other on the moon.

    “Zeon only lasted against the federation arguably due to ruthlessness, tactics, and technological advancement, but they never had big numbers. ”

    I think the entire Zeon Fleet is only equal to the Federation’s Tianem Fleet. They never had more than a handful of battle ships and carriers. Only around 50ish cruiser-type vessels such as the Musai, Zanzibar, and the rarer Chivay. They were more ruthless.. but only minorly. They gassed a few colonies and dropped one on Earth, but during the battle of Loum dozens of colonies were destroyed when the two fleets tried to nuke each other into oblivious.

    It should be noted that despite their lack of territory in space, the Earth Federation keeps their nuclear stockpile at Luna II apparently (which I seem to recall being cited in Char’s Counter Attack. Please correct me if I am wrong.)

    They and Zeon would have plenty of access to space combat tools.. although I don’t think that they’d be able to stop the Imperium from making landfall. I do think they’d make it difficult for the Imperium to take complete control of space while putting troops on the ground.

    “What I expect would happen is the IoM would bust into the system, sucker punch Zeonic ”

    The two sides can see each other before they fight. It takes a while to travel through a system. Anyone have any time estimates on how long it would take? They might pause to attack Jupiter on the way.. although the Jupiter energy fleet is not exactly a military asset, and would only provide Earth with more time to prepare.

    “but lets also consider Zeonic forces would be spread pretty thin and occupied against the federation.”

    In space, Zeon is not spread thin. On Earth it is.

    You seem to be under the impression that it will take the Imperium Fleet months to conquer Zeon territory. In this period, you do not think that they’d be able to pump out the Mass Produced Big Zam, along with their other planned super weapons? Or do you think they’d not be effective defenses?

    “can the federation and what remains of Zeon stand against the IG, SM’s, Psykers, The Fleet, the Titan-Legion, and all the other war-machines the IoM has at its disposal?”

    Maybe?

    Scenes from the Battle of Odessa

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdQpP53fY1Y

    Torrington Base Battle. Not OYW, but most of the suits are from it.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouWcmo9seQI

    Various combat scenes from Mobile Suit Gundam Movie II

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcqzOgVIZvs

    Simulated projection on Apsalus II fire power based on data recorded from an encounter at its testing grounds

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO6nHzlcv-k

    Apsalus III targeting and destroying multiple targets at once. Once with a beam sweep, a second time with a scattering shot. High accuracy Cockpit shot precious demonstrated on a RGM-79[G] GM Sniper. And a moderately powered shot destroying a mountain. Sadly, we never get to see the full powered shot as the machine’s cockpit is destroyed during an attempt to fire such.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPXfpGE-S80

    As of the given time period, the Apsalus project is still running.

    A short featuring combat between two RX-78[G]’s (one being the Ez-8 variant), a damaged MS-06J using a ZIM/M·T-K175C, and a MS-07H-8, using the classic gatling shield from the MS-07B-3

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejjfu4JmVTU

    Here’s a good close up view of the weapon.

    vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/gundam/images/b/b6/Gatling_Shield.png/revision/latest?cb=20130823142205

    A trio of MS-06 (I’m guessing F-types? Although it is still early/mid war, they seem too mobile to be C-types) engage a squad of Type-61’s. Good showing for the rarely spot lighted Type-61’s capabilities. Also shows off MS-06 jump capabilities.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSz7nKYNSTo

    A trio of MS-06F against the “White Devil” RX-78-2 Gundam

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX2O8wEYRYk

    It’s just a sampling of mobile weapons from The One Year War, but I think they’ll put up a good fight. Any scenario involving Amuro will probably result in a loss for the titan legion, I am guessing. If they begin losing too much territory to the Imperium I expect the Federation would send him to meet them where they’re pushing.

  70. GreyFensir December 16, 2014 at 1:39 pm -      #70

    1. Warhounds are like mini-titans aren’t they? Titans are only outclassed in destructive capacity by full on battle-ships I believe. Also not sure what Bigro is but i’m assuming its some kind of Mobile-Armour.

    2. Not disputing they could harang, harass, and possibly blow up IoM forces while in space as they try to make land-fall, but I think if they established a presence properly in space before hand this would be mitigated by a pretty fair degree. Any space-based invasion against another relatively advanced situation will have this factor anyway, but this is not the Imperiums first rodeo, nor is it zeons and the federations but I would say the IoM has A LOT more experience than either faction in this sort of thing. I would even compare the UC to the countless other human civilizations the Imperium conquered during the great-crusade which might or might not have had superior or on par tech and infrastructure but this is admittedly conjecture.

    3. It does take time to move through a system buttt I would venture to say the IoM is better at this than Zeon or Federation due to the fact they have interstellar travel. Warp-Travel is slow in comparison to say “hyperspeed” “warp” etc but its probably faster than the federation or zeons ability to travel. The only downside is the possibility of a warp-storm or other warp tomfoolery but I think its a bit of a copout to say “well they might get eaten by a Daemon prince or something.”

    And sure they could perceive them entering the system but there are several other factors to consider in this. The range of communication which im unsure of in the UC though I would not be surprised if they could easily communicate within anywhere in the Solar system however the fact of the matter is that Zeon nor Federation forces would have any idea what they are dealing wth till they engaged the IoM fleet, and when the fleet arrives Zeon and Federation would be very busy fighting each other when and if they noticed “the new challenger”. If the IoM worked fast they might even be able to take out relatively small areas in space before those forces could communicate any meaningful intel and establish a foot-hold and even possibly annex resources from the territory they managed to take while also possibly gathering intel as well.

    Attacking Jupiter might buy time, might even cost the IoM fleet a bit, but I’m not sure if this is really relevant in the grand-scheme of things.

    4. Earth is spread -thinner- than Zeon but we already established Zeon never had big numbers on its side, and what little they have is making sure they keep the Federation spread thinner than them. So yeah in relative terms to the federation Zeon has its shit well established but they are still fighting a pretty big war over a vast amount of territory with limited resources.

    5. I do not think its likely that Zeon could mass-produce giant mobile-armours and super weapons while fighting the Imperium Fleet and previously fighting the Federation. Zeon was quality over quantity and their super-weapons are nothing to shake a stick at but I can’t see them mass-producing the best shit they ever had fast enough too make a huge difference in the long-run and also keep in mind that they could be losing more resources than they previously were as they do so. Its been established Zeon had to struggle to maintain the war-effort, adding in another hostile-force will just compound the strain on Zeonic resources. So no I don’t think its likely that Zeon would start mass-producing Big-Zam and Battle-Fortresses with long-range WMD beam-weaponry. And if they did they could be effective defenses but I’m not sure HOW effective, this really depends on the IoM’s tactics in relation to Zeon.

    Whether or not the IoM could destroy and mop up Zeonic forces in the time-span I postulated is admittedly up for debate, I never said that was set in stone, and if we can establish a semi-accurate time-line that might help. It also might help to figure out how long it might take for Zeon and the Feds to join forces or realize what is happening.

    6. I’ve seen all of this before, it’s admittedly been a while but I am well aware of the capacities of both Zeon and Federation. I might look to refresh my memory.

    7. I think you are over-estimating Amuro, he’s just one admittedly amazing newtype and pilot, and yeah when hes around he tends to get shit done, but he’s still one dude, and newtype powers are not in the same league as Psyker powers as I would venture to say so his abilities might actually bite him in the ass. It would be hilarious if Amuro’s emotional instability led him to being possessed by a daemon but that would be a cop-out so I won’t go there.

    8. Like I said this is not the IoM’s first rodeo, if the UC held out and repelled the IoM then they would be doing FAR more than any other high-tech human civilization the Imperium encountered did. I believe there was some some off-shoot of the mechanicum that the IoM defeated which was even more advanced than the Imperium itself.

  71. Sauroposeidon December 16, 2014 at 4:16 pm -      #71

    “1. Warhounds are like mini-titans aren’t they? Titans are only outclassed in destructive capacity by full on battle-ships I believe. Also not sure what Bigro is but i’m assuming its some kind of Mobile-Armour.”

    The Bigro enjoyed semi-mass production success, and was later developed in to the Val Varo towards the end of the war, although Zeon was unable to develop very many Val Varos, supposedly. I expect things will go differently if the war pushes past December and in to UC 0080.

    A trio of Bigros appear at the 1:35 mark.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifGubXJhxos

    I would estimate them to be roughly on par with the Tau Tigershark AX-1-0, although with superior melee capabilities.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRl8SB_LvXg

    The Val Varo, as you can see, is beyond the Bigro in every manner. With larger claws, a larger main cannon, two secondary sets of weapons including both heavy vulcans and light beam guns, and it is armed with a unique plasma weapon for trapping and melting enemy mecha. The Adzam variant heated the atmosphere around the RX-78-2 to over 4,000 degrees Celsius with no damage to the armor, or even visible reddening. This version appears to be more potent, with the lightning… which should put it closer to sun-like temperatures.

    As for speed, the IoM tends to warp to the outskirts of a system and then it pushes in, to my knowledge. Can we confirm otherwise? I expect a couple of weeks prep for both sides would be in order. The scenario was even written in such a way as to imply that they had time to study each other a bit, with maybe a few brushes in combat at best.

    I think you’re mistaken on a few points in Number Five.

    A. Zeon could mass produce mobile armors if it wanted to. It was intending to do this before the Federation took Solomon. They focused on their mobile suits more than the Big Zam and other super weapons because those were offensive weapons, and they were interested in defending themselves now that the Federation was winning.

    B. If the Imperium is unable to establish enough ground fast enough, then Zeon has plenty of time to finish its various super weapons.

    C. The front, once it shifts to Earth vs Imperium, becomes much smaller. They are no longer forced to try and capture the entire planet. They are free to engage only the Imperium of Man and not have to worry about the Federation attacking them.

    I’d suggest brushing up. It always helps.

    And you’re right. Newtypes are not Psykers. They have can achieve more if pushed right.

    I also do not believe that I am over estimating Amuro. I don’t see any interaction between White Base and any part of the Titan Legion that would end well for the Titans. They would need to use something in space to give them Amuro a challenge. God forbid he ever gets the Alex or worse.

    As it may not be the Imperium’s first rodeo, and this is essentially the first big war in the UC timeline, I should point out that past conquests of the IoM over other worlds did not involve this fleet. If you can show that they conquered greater opponents with less force then I could see your point.. but we can all scour the history of the IoM and find moments of incredible incompetence or sudden unyielding success.

    Mostly, I am still waiting on quotes concerning frigates and cruisers from pimp.

  72. GreyFensir December 16, 2014 at 5:35 pm -      #72

    1. If Bigro were a Massproduced type of MA then thats fine. But still I guess I should look up if warhounds are a type of titan or some sort of sub-titan unit. Eitherway I would say any Titan is the equivalent of any Mobile Armour at the very least, though arguably more powerful depending on the type of titan, however MA’s can move freely in space so I guess that counts for Zeon/UC forces. I also have not heard of any Tau mech out-fighting a titan in a straight fight but could be wrong.

    2. Yeah I think thats typical of the IoM I just felt it was worth mentioning they could conceivably move a bit faster than the UC forces.

    3. Yeah they could Mass-Produce Mobile armours but would it be likely in this situation? This is also relatively early in the one-year war if im not mistaken and considering the losses both the UC forces were sustaining adding in a new player could conceivably throw one hell of a monkey-wrench into this. If the Imperium can’t establish ground fast enough than yeah Zeon might be able to finish this, but have to consider what the federation is doing during this point as well. It comes down too whether or not the Imperium can disrupt production fast enough to stop zeon from producing an army of Mobile-Armours and I find this less likely especially if Imperium forces either destroy or annex Zeonic industrial facilities.

    4. An Alpha-Level Psyker can destroy a planet, this is admittedly stupid rare but I think most Psykers would outclass most Newtypes and I think Psykers have a higher cap. I won’t mention what the Emperor can do since hes an exception and can’t really do anything, but Malchior the hero (or w/e his name was) was able to hold off an entire vast horde of daemons with his mind alone. (The effort killed him but still.) He was a “normal psyker” and did not have all the boosts the Emperor had.

    5. So its established that both sides already have some experience with each other before the actual full scale conflict?

    6. Also consider that IoM fights markedly different than UC forces and are much heavier on ground troops. Now Imperial-Guard WILL die in droves, they always do, but the Space-Marines? Well whats to stop the IoM from using them to disrupt things behind enemy lines? Strike teams and stuff like that. They could conceivably do tactical-strikes and boarding operations and I’m not sure but can’t IoM beam personell directly into places ala Star-Trek? If a small group of SM’s get inside enemy bases or ships its going to be a slaughter-fest. They could invade colonies, conceivably kill or take leaders hostage, eliminate ace-pilots and new-types etc. The UC would have no way to deal with Space-Marines if the Space-Marines were able to be deployed into a ground-conflict and if the Space-Marines could avoid getting caught into an open battle against MS or MA and even if they were they could conceivably put up a damn good fight if they are equipped right and in the right environment. (Remember the guerilla’s from 08th MS team? Imagine that times 1000.) Also Tempestus-Scions/Cadian-Shocktroops would be pretty nasty too deal wth as well if they have them.

    7. Harkening to point 6, a situation in which Amuro might not get a chance to even suit up might be a factor if the IoM is smart and send a strike-team of SM’s to board white-base in a pre-emptive strike. This is more likely if they know anything of white-bases reputation. And one Titan is typically enough to pacify an entire planet I think.

    8. You’re right sometimes the Imperium drops the ball, which means we should establish if this fleet is subject to incompetence or if they are at least relatively saavy. Even so I think the IoM’s experience passively counts for something in regards to their overall capacity to perform in this sort of situation.

    I think the fundamental factors we should consider is.

    (A) How fast can the IoM establish a foot-hold in space? Can they maintain it? Will they go about it tactically or be incompetent?

    (B) How will the resources of both Federation and Zeonic forces look when the IoM comes in, and afterwards?

    (C) How long will it take for Zeon and the Federation to join forces? And what will both forces look like before and after they do so. How long will it take for the IoM

    (D) How the different styles of combat will interact and play out?

    (E) Also lol… Heres an idea what if the IoM starts capturing MS and MA’s? This might be considered Heresy but it might just be possible. This is where the IoM’s overall ideology might work against them. I also forgot to mention that minovsky particles can feasibly disrupt communication for both sides but more so for UC forces which might mean it takes longer for them to catch up on whats going on.

  73. pimpmage December 16, 2014 at 7:40 pm -      #73

    “(A) How fast can the IoM establish a foot-hold in space? Can they maintain it? Will they go about it tactically or be incompetent?”

    Seeing as many ship captains in 40k can be centuries old, doing that job since they were born, they would all be extremely competent strategic geniuses. Plus, they have space marine captains that could plan out any battle tactics.

    “As for speed, the IoM tends to warp to the outskirts of a system and then it pushes in, to my knowledge. Can we confirm otherwise?”

    Depending on the size of the system, the lowest I have seen is maybe like 2-3 days travel time.

    “Heres an idea what if the IoM starts capturing MS and MA’s?”

    Why would they do that?

    I can only see this playing out with massive imperial bombardment till everyone stops trying to fight back. Then they will land after every military outpost planetside is nothing but miles’ wide craters.

    Also, imperial ship captains are fans of guerilla tactics when it comes to fighting superior numbers. They did dozens of decisive engagements during one of the Armageddon campaigns to whittle down the largest ork fleet they have ever seen.

  74. Sauroposeidon December 16, 2014 at 7:44 pm -      #74

    1. The Tau Tigershark AX-1-0 is a titan killer. It stripes void shields with seeker missile barrages and then cores the Titan with its two large rail cannons.

    The Riptide and other large crisis suits have shown performance great enough make them rival Imperium titans, although they were not yet developed during the era of the crusade fleet in this match.

    2. Their warp travel should be far faster. I do not know about their sublight, although their acceleration seems slower compared to UC cruisers.

    3. The scenario is right after the Battle of Odessa, when Zeon has been forced back in to space and they’re consolidating what’s left of their Earth forces to attack Jaburo.

    4.Highest level Newtypes appear to be capable of manipulating space-time. Note, Char’s Counter Attack during the Axis Shock scene, and the Gundam Unicorn Time Travel scene. They also often ascend to a state of pure psychic energy when powerful enough, especially when you think you’ve killed them. Their powers can be enhanced by present tech to the point that concentrated will power manipulates the material universe around them. This is exceptionally rare.. but we’re talking about only around 20 years having passed since Newtypes emerged to the events concerning CCA and Unicorn, and all revolving around only one planet.

    5. Yes. They have been able to see each other for weeks, or however long it takes the IoM to move in. They have felt out with a few scouts each.

    6. The Space Marines would probably not be defeatable by zeon or federation infantry. They would have to kill them with vehicles like Dopps or Magella Eins. It should be noted that they DO have rarely used petite-style mobile suits for combat (as seen in 0080).. but these seem to be second line units for civilian defense which weren’t fit for combat against serious threats like mobile suits. I wonder if they’d find a new niche with the introduction of space marines.

    7. White Base has only ever been boarded once. It’d be a difficult and dangerous operation. I don’t know if teleporting would work under minovsky interference conditions. Most planets don’t have a Gundam, mind you.

    A. Waiting on Pimp to provide data so we can establish that.

    B. Zeon just gutted the Odessa mines. The Federation has the resources to restock its decimated fleets and build an entire army of mobile suits. I think they’re just fine.

    C. Essentially, as soon as they realize Aliens are approaching, it changes the game. Degwin forges a truce with Revil and they begin preparing for the clearly hostile Aliens.

    D. I personally think that on the ground, the Federation will demonstrate air superiority.. but it is behind in ground combat tech besides its new mobile suits. Zeon has much more advanced tech, but uses unproven designs, many of which end up being considered failures. The Cui can’t protect its riders. The Dopp is only good at turning quickly. The Magella Eins is no match for the Type-61 and the Magella Attack has no niche and has to compete against the superior Zaku. It keeps going on like this for them.

    E. I don’t think the IoM will steal mobile suits. I think it will focus on using weapons which can compete, or try to get around them in general.

  75. Neon Lord December 16, 2014 at 9:07 pm -      #75

    “The Riptide and other large crisis suits have shown performance great enough make them rival Imperium titans, although they were not yet developed during the era of the crusade fleet in this match.”

    Riptides are a little sub-par to Imperial Knight Titans, which are technically not mainline Titans in their own right.

    It’s not in the Imperial doctrine to steal the enemy’s tech. Anybody that tries gets a bolt round to the head.

    If nukes are silo-launched, then those will be immediately bombarded from space. Other than that, the Imperium is more likely to take out other military targets from the ground.

  76. Sauroposeidon December 16, 2014 at 9:16 pm -      #76

    “Riptides are a little sub-par to Imperial Knight Titans, which are technically not mainline Titans in their own right.”

    No they’re not. They’re better than Warhounds at least. Their nova shields let them tank imperium nukes. Heavy tanks like the Baneblade are slaughtered by the Riptide. Three R’varna held off an entire ‘nid invasion.

    The nukes are launched via mobile suit or ship.

    The MS-06C specifically has special armor to protect against stuff like radiation for use with the “N.C.” version of the H&L-SB25K/280mmA-P, which was a singles shot nuclear bazooka. Many rookie pilots killed themselves on accident when using these as they were too close to their target. The “sphere” we see in most One Year War stuff we see of nukes going off in space is generally a few kilometers in length.

  77. Neon Lord December 16, 2014 at 9:36 pm -      #77

    “No they’re not. They’re better than Warhounds at least. Their nova shields let them tank imperium nukes.”

    Deathstrike missiles are not nukes, bu that was an impressive feat. However, we have no idea how effective Deathstrike missiles are against Imperial Titans so a comparison cannot be made.

    “Heavy tanks like the Baneblade are slaughtered by the Riptide.”

    That was three of them ganging up on the one Baneblade. Warhound Titans also beat up Baneblades easy too.

    “Three R’varna held off an entire ‘nid invasion.”

    R’varnas are designed for crowd control. Of course they excel in their preferred role. However, that doesn’t change how Imperial Knights were beating up Riptides during the assault on Agrellan.

    Knights outclass Riptides in firepower, stable shielding, and armour. Riptides have the advantage in manoeuverability; as befits the Tau style of warfare.

    “The nukes are launched via mobile suit or ship.”

    What type of AA do the ships have, and how good is it?

  78. GreyFensir December 16, 2014 at 10:06 pm -      #78

    1. Well we have established that the people in charge of the fleet will be competent and not prone to flippant mistakes. This means the passive experience of centuries and in some cases millenia will be at the full disposal of the fleet.

    2. Okay so a Tiger-Shark can kill a Titan, I’m assuming this road goes both ways?

    3. Mk

    4. High-Level Psykers can do similar things, accessing the warp allows them some degree of lee-way with time/space stuff. I really think the scaling might be equal between psykers and newtypes though there might be a slight numbers advantage on the Imperium side.

    5. Mk.

    6. Oh yeah I remember those, they might actually be a decent answer to SM’s, but I think the Space-Marines would still be superior especially if they have Terminator Armour or Dreadnoughts. Also SM’s would probably frequently be making use of jump-packs often. They would also pose small targets to the larger MS but the smaller ones might make for some decent defense against them, but I don’t think it would be enough. They could probably bomb them from afar with vehicles but thats only a possibility and as Pimp said these particular folks will be more than familiar with guerilla-tactics.

    7. I remember that episode, that Gouf pilot did it on earth right? Yeah, it was risky for them, but they were not genetically altered giant super-men with centuries of experience, power-armour and shit like Melta’s, Bolters, Stormbolters, Plasma-Guns, Las-Cannons, Chainswords, Powerswords, Power-Fists,Thunder-Hammers, etc. I maintain that SM’s could more than feasibly board white-base or most other ships or stations or get into enemy bases for that matter and then steamroll most opposition relatively easily. If they have IG or Scion support even better. Minovsky particles might interfere, might not. But thats what drop-pods are for, and various other methods for boarding a ship or getting into a base etc.

    8. Fine they probably would not steal MS or MA’s cause Heresy or something, but i figured they might in order to be resourceful and make up for their smaller numbers and own limited resources.

    9. If Fed and Zeon immediately join forces that changes the game considerably then they might stand a chance, but I’m not sure if they could repel the fleet, maybe hold out but the fleet can hunker down and rely on guerilla warefare. Even so both sides are still kinda licking wounds from the previous engagement after joining, and if the IoM gets wind of this which they would fairly quickly they would probably rely on the aforementioned tactics and go after strategic points of interest. However a guerilla game would be a long one, and backup is off the table unless the IoM is unable to take control, repelled, or destroyed, but if they held out long enough it makes sense they might get back up -eventually- and I do mean -EVENTUALLY- cause reinforcements are typically rare in the Imperium unless something is seen as extremely important, but considering its an advanced rogue-human cvilization that exactly mirrors the home-system of the IoM I can already see the Inquisition and Adeptus Mechanicus frothing at their mouths.

  79. Sauroposeidon December 17, 2014 at 12:14 am -      #79

    “1. Well we have established that the people in charge of the fleet will be competent and not prone to flippant mistakes. This means the passive experience of centuries and in some cases millenia will be at the full disposal of the fleet.”

    I see no reason to make them raving idiots.

    “2. Okay so a Tiger-Shark can kill a Titan, I’m assuming this road goes both ways?”

    No. Tigersharks outrange Titans apparently. I don’t believe there’s any instance of them losing to a titan. Their speed is superior as well, so there’s likely no reason for one to ever let a Titan get in range.

    “but I think the Space-Marines would still be superior especially if they have Terminator Armour or ”

    The only middle-style mobile suit we see during the OYW got shredded by the MS-18E Kaempfer’s ZUX-197 Jagdgewehr 192mm Shotgun. It was the RH-35E Riah 35 Draken-E. The Wiki mentions its hands were unsuitable for using anything other than small beam sabers..although I hadn’t realized that they’d made any that small. I am uncertain where they got that information. It is also listed as having missiles.. but we never get to see any being used.

    “with guerilla-tactics.”

    I find it humorous that each side will be using this, just on different fronts.

    “I really think the scaling might be equal between psykers and newtypes though there might be a slight numbers advantage on the Imperium side.”

    Eventually they will have the tech to artificially create Newtypes. It makes you a little crazy but the effects are impressive.

    “Yeah, it was risky for them, ”

    I don’t remember how difficult it was for them. I’d have to rewatch the episode. Ramba Ral was considered an ace and a better pilot than Amuro. He only lost because the Gouf couldn’t match the Gundam. Granted this was earlier in the war, but still.

    ” cause reinforcements are typically rare in the Imperium”

    They don’t get any in this scenario. In fact if the war lasts more than a few years they’ll be called away to fight as reinforcements themselves to deal with a Hive fleet.

    If the war lasts just 3 years, the Federation gets the RX-78GP02A. Its nuclear weapon is considerably more dangerous than what the Zakus were shooting.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXjaZe3lPF8

    One Mk. 82 warhead destroys/disables 2/3rds of the Federation fleet during their naval review at Solomon/Konpei Island.

    Zeon will eventually develop the AMX-017 Gigantic based on that with the intent to launch mass produced nuclear attack mobile suits against the Federation.

    The longer the war pans out, the worse things get for the Imperium.

    “That was three of them ganging up on the one Baneblade. Warhound Titans also beat up Baneblades easy too.”

    I don’t recall ever reading that it takes 3 to take on a Baneblade. Conceivably, one should just jump jet on top of the Banebalde and core it through the weaker top armor right through the commander’s copula for an easy one shot kill.

    “that doesn’t change how Imperial Knights were beating up Riptides during the assault on Agrellan.”

    I think the only way in which a knight is better is in melee combat. Not that I think many would ever manage to get that close.

    “Knights outclass Riptides in firepower, stable shielding, and armour. Riptides have the advantage in manoeuverability; as befits the Tau style of warfare.”

    Riptides are faster and better armed, with shielding that can conceivably let them tank everything the Knight throws at them. They are vastly superior to a knight. If a Riptide knows a knight is coming at it, then nothing shy of PiS will save the knight. God forbid it’s either of the Riptide’s sister suits. Then the Knight is either woefully out maneuvered, like old US planes getting shredding by more agile Japanese zeroes in a dog fight, or it’s unable to harm the other variant, while being cut down by withering plasma barrages.

    “What type of AA do the ships have, and how good is it?”

    Assuming you mean One Year War vessels?

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=aauHXyQGCaY

    Federation fleet flak visible at 2:45. Zeon only had point defenses on their Chivvay and Gwazine vessels, and otherwise relied on mobile suits for interception.

  80. pimpmage December 17, 2014 at 4:18 am -      #80

    “I think the only way in which a knight is better is in melee combat. Not that I think many would ever manage to get that close.”

    Imperial knights can equipped with quake cannons it seems. Those things are mounted on superheavy tanks and warlord arm hardpoints.
    vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/0/0d/Freeblade_Obsidian_Knight_vs._Tau.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width/589?cb=20140311225003
    This image shows a couple riptides being torn apart by an advancing wave of knights.

    vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/5/57/Stitch16.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130419052459
    Tese smaller sizes show their battlesuits to be not much taller than space marines in terminator armor, or SM dreadnaughts.
    vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/0/0d/Dreadnought00.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20121004050428

  81. Sauroposeidon December 17, 2014 at 9:07 am -      #81

    “This image shows a couple riptides being torn apart by an advancing wave of knights.”

    The image shows two riptides taking a hit. One from an unknown source. Another from a knight. Neither appear to have been destroyed and are still combat ready. That’s how mechs work. Losing an arm doesn’t result in a loss. Try to brush up on mech combat a little pimp, before you go about making claims. On top of that, we know a lot of stuff is basically imperial propaganda, which is why we have scenarios in some stories of hammerheads sitting in one spot firing with no effect on a baneblade until its slow ass runs them over. Which probably explains why there’s even a much slower Knight next to a Riptide to begin with.

    We all know how tall they are. I don’t know what that has to do with anything?

    On a different note. I’d like to point out that while not as useful as other Mobile Armors, the Zakrello did also enjoy apparently a limited production run as well.. although it tended to be a shelf warmer when it ended up having to compete with the Bigro. Even Char forgot that he even had one aboard his Zanzibar.

    We can see one being used early on in the Gundam Ride at A Baoa Qu.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXpkAPdlTkc

    Big yellow thing with blade arms and a scattering beam cannon in the mouth.

  82. GreyFensir December 17, 2014 at 12:56 pm -      #82

    I’m not as well versed on the technical aspects of 40k vehicles but I do think its a bit much to assume that titans are simply inferior to MS’ and MA’s but even if they are that still does not disregard the Imperiums ability in ground-combat and ability to successfully deploy troops in ground-combat, behind enemy lines, and for boarding operations.

    The IoM might not be able to successfully deploy SM’s every time, but I think every time the SM’s would be successfully deployed for a more “surgical” strike the chance of success for the operation would be huge, if the IoM is smart they can and would deploy SM’s to take out strategic points and units. There’s no reason the IoM would have to fight on the terms of the UC.

  83. Sauroposeidon December 17, 2014 at 4:00 pm -      #83

    “I’m not as well versed on the technical aspects of 40k vehicles but I do think its a bit much to assume that titans are simply inferior to MS’ and MA’s but even if they are that still does not disregard the Imperiums ability in ground-combat and ability to successfully deploy troops in ground-combat, behind enemy lines, and for boarding operations.”

    I think if a normal pilot in a RX-78-2 fought a Warlord they’d die. I think if Amuro fought a Warlord, he’d curb stomp.

    I think the super MA’s massively outstrip any Imperium Titan in terms of fire power.. but they all use standard armor with limited beam protection coating at best, or an I-Field in some cases.

    There are only a handful of mobile suits which individually could compete with the Titans (note, Imperium ones. I believe Eldar ones are generally inferior and Ork ones are too slow).

    ” if the IoM is smart they can and would deploy SM’s to take out strategic points and units. ”

    It just seems to me like they would have to do it a lot, all while being at risk of running in to a mobile suit or some other vehicle which can hurt them. They would be the best option for surgical strikes, though.

  84. pimpmage December 17, 2014 at 4:28 pm -      #84

    I really want to see a mecha universe fight that includes zoids. Barring the superweapon zoids of course.

  85. Sauroposeidon December 17, 2014 at 6:32 pm -      #85

    “I really want to see a mecha universe fight that includes zoids. Barring the superweapon zoids of course.”

    They aren’t well known here or I’d of made lots of suggestions for different zoids,

  86. GreyFensir December 17, 2014 at 6:39 pm -      #86

    @ sauroposeidon

    Then what it comes down too is who can more effectively put the fight on their terms. If the IoM is smart they can circumvent risks by picking their battles but nothing is set in stone yes.

  87. pimpmage December 17, 2014 at 6:47 pm -      #87

    IoM’s terms would be to achieve the domination of space around the planets. From there they could observe and provide orbital bombardments wherever necessary.

  88. Neon Lord December 17, 2014 at 8:29 pm -      #88

    “The image shows two riptides taking a hit. One from an unknown source. Another from a knight. Neither appear to have been destroyed and are still combat ready. That’s how mechs work. Losing an arm doesn’t result in a loss. Try to brush up on mech combat a little pimp, ”

    The one in the background is quite obviously being blown apart by a wall-mounted cannon. The second one has a rapid-firing battlecannon at point blank and a chainsword about to go into it. If they aren’t dead yet they soon will be.

    “Which probably explains why there’s even a much slower Knight next to a Riptide to begin with.”

    Which is true. But Knights definitely have the advantage in armour, shielding, and firepower+close combat capability.

    “It just seems to me like they would have to do it a lot, all while being at risk of running in to a mobile suit or some other vehicle which can hurt them. They would be the best option for surgical strikes, though.”

    Drop Pods should be able to be deployed far faster than any mech reinforcements can reach the area. It’s evac via gunship that is the more dangerous time for SMs.

    ” I believe Eldar ones are generally inferior and Ork ones are too slow”

    Orks ones tend to have more firepower and Eldar ones fight like the Tau would.

  89. pimpmage December 17, 2014 at 8:39 pm -      #89

    “Orks ones tend to have more firepower and Eldar ones fight like the Tau would.”

    I have only ever read about one occasion where eldar titans fought imperial titans. That was in a HH book staring Perturabo. Two eldar titans fought two warlords. One warlord went down and the other only barely lived while killing the last eldar titan. The other nonfactor eldar titan was from the ‘Thousand Sons’ book where magnus soloed one with a fireball.

  90. GreyFensir December 17, 2014 at 8:48 pm -      #90

    yeah Pimp but what I’m referring too is -how- they put it into those terms. Those are their objectives but how they go about it in comparison to the UC is different.

  91. Sauroposeidon December 17, 2014 at 8:51 pm -      #91

    “The one in the background is quite obviously being blown apart by a wall-mounted cannon. The second one has a rapid-firing battlecannon at point blank and a chainsword about to go into it. If they aren’t dead yet they soon will be.”

    We see one engulfed in an explosion. We don’t know what the knight is using. We have no reason to think the Riptide is going down.

    “Which is true. But Knights definitely have the advantage in armour, shielding, and firepower+close combat capability.”

    Not from where I’m standing.

    “Drop Pods should be able to be deployed far faster than any mech reinforcements can reach the area. It’s evac via gunship that is the more dangerous time for SMs.”

    What stops them from being intercepted by air craft?

    “Orks ones tend to have more firepower and Eldar ones fight like the Tau would.”

    No. Eldar ones fight like Eldar ones. When the Tau get their own Titan-scale suit it will fight like a Tau one, not an Eldar one.Which means somewhere between Eldar and Imperium, probably. Right now their Titan equivalent is the Tigershark AX-1-0 and the Manta .. which are extremely unique and nothing like any Eldar titans.

  92. Friendlysociopath December 17, 2014 at 8:54 pm -      #92

    What stops them from being intercepted by air craft?

    They drop pretty damn fast, I think those things drop at a speed of around 12,000 kilometers per hour. Even WH40K Anti-Air weapons tend to have a hard time shooting them down.

  93. pimpmage December 17, 2014 at 9:08 pm -      #93

    “yeah Pimp but what I’m referring too is -how- they put it into those terms. Those are their objectives but how they go about it in comparison to the UC is different.”

    I have said this several times. They take 2-3 days to travel from outside a solar system to inner worlds. In that time they could be using their powerful sensor arrays to check out every planet before they get close as well as check for any other ships in the solar system.

    So all the videos I have seen regarding gundams… they seem to have ALOT of redshirt ships/gundams that get 1shot by the smallest things. From the little I have seen, gundam verse ships exist just to be blown up like in michael bay action movies. They don’t seem to have any sort of shielding, and their armor seems to be paper thin seeing as one gundam mounted pistol weapon can one shot them.

    With that in my mind, they would probably be easily wiped away with just macro batteries. No need to even fire lances or torpedoes.

    They arrive at the intended destination of earth, set up a picket line around the planet and scan the ever living shit out of it. If the opponents are still trash talkin the imperium, all military targets on the planet are gonna get bombed. Then they could send ground forces to go figure out why this planet is supposed to mirror millenia old terra.

  94. Sauroposeidon December 17, 2014 at 9:13 pm -      #94

    “They drop pretty damn fast, I think those things drop at a speed of around 12,000 kilometers per hour. Even WH40K Anti-Air weapons tend to have a hard time shooting them down.”

    I would need quotes to confirm both of those claims. Especially since something going in a straight line should be easy to shoot.

    I also am not sure why that should be too fast to intercept? That’s still a heck of a lot slower than a bullet, by an enormous margin.

  95. Friendlysociopath December 17, 2014 at 9:23 pm -      #95

    I also am not sure why that should be too fast to intercept? That’s still a heck of a lot slower than a bullet, by an enormous margin.

    No it’s not? That’s almost 5x faster than bullets go, what steroids do your bullets use?

    I’m going off the wikia entry for Drop Pod- the section Adeptus Mechanicus Technical Specifications lists the tech specifications.

    There’s a list of sources at the bottom.

  96. pimpmage December 17, 2014 at 9:30 pm -      #96

    “Especially since something going in a straight line should be easy to shoot.”

    Drop pods have servitors pilots built in that do evasive maneuvers with thrusters. I seem to recall a quote in ‘The Unremembered Empire’ HH book that details a mass Dark Angel drop pod assault happening, and like 30 seconds warning to power down the city’s void shielding before they landed. If the shields were not taken down in time, it would have destroyed every single drop pod before they even landed. I coulda sworn I bought that book, but I cant find it anywhere. Sorry I couldn’t provide that quote.

  97. Sauroposeidon December 17, 2014 at 11:05 pm -      #97

    “No it’s not? That’s almost 5x faster than bullets go, what steroids do your bullets use?”

    What? Even big artillery shells in Gundam go that fast. Note the roughly 2 second travel time for a Magella Topp Cannon shell to cover 10km in 08th MS Team. Smaller arms should, logically, be traveling much, much faster. Beam shots travel reportedly at relativistic speeds, as you could see in the Brawbro video.

    However, as we see in MS IGLOO ,they prefer to launch missiles from underneath. The Drop Pods would have to be very maneuverable, and be able to spot the missiles coming in.

    “destroyed every single drop pod before they even landed”

    I wonder why they didn’t just slow down to bypass the shields?

  98. Sauroposeidon December 17, 2014 at 11:13 pm -      #98

    “They take 2-3 days to travel from outside a solar system to inner worlds.”

    Could you cite that?

    ” From the little I have seen, gundam verse ships exist just to be blown up like in michael bay action movies. They don’t seem to have any sort of shielding, and their armor seems to be paper thin seeing as one gundam mounted pistol weapon can one shot them.”

    Outside of the top Zeon ships, all ships use standard armor, and no anti-beam technology.

    The Gundam’s rifle is equal to a battle ship cannon, permitting it to destroy essentially anything it shoots with one shot.

    “With that in my mind, they would probably be easily wiped away with just macro batteries. No need to even fire lances or torpedoes.”

    I would estimate that it’d take 3-5 Salamis Class cruisers to match a frigate, and 2-3 Musai Light Cruiser to match a frigate, just going by what little I know of 40k ships. The Musai are able to concentrate their fire power and direct more of it in a single direction.. but more importantly, they come with a hangar, giving them mobile suits.. which are the real killer.

    “They arrive at the intended destination of earth, set up a picket line around the planet”

    Ignoring everything but Earth would probably result in a swift loss via Colony Laser…

    “scan the ever living shit out of it”

    How are they going to get past that minovsky interference again?

  99. pimpmage December 17, 2014 at 11:13 pm -      #99

    “I wonder why they didn’t just slow down to bypass the shields?”

    Ok, leme explain what happened. The lion was visiting papa smurf to decide where his loyalties lie. Lion had his entire drop pod supply locked and aimed at the city he was in in case he doesn’t hear what he wants. Shit goes down, Konrad Curze who was trapped aboard the lion’s ship gets lose and kills a bunch of people. His visions lead him to the drop pod control chamber and he activates the assault using his primarch genes to activate a gene sensor activation button. Everything is launched but papa smurf’s city always had shielding up. Smurf had the lives of thousands of the lion’s soldiers in his hands and was made aware of the lion’s intentions to possibly invade. Smurf lowers the shields as a sign of loyalty regardless of the lion’s original intentions. Smurf only had like 20 seconds to authorize the shield controls before bad shit happened.

  100. pimpmage December 17, 2014 at 11:23 pm -      #100

    “Could you cite that?”

    I gotta think about where I could pull that from. This time frame is probably listed in a dozen different books. But I cant think of a particular page or book in mind.

    “I would estimate that it’d take 3-5 Salamis Class cruisers to match a frigate”

    Like 70% of frigates carry dozens of macro batteries. The other 30% are specialized versions that carry a single forward lance that can do heavy damage. The 30% are usually SM frigates or semi rare models that only exist in other parts of the galaxy. Besides, has gundam weapons been calced before? You say their ships can be 1 hit with gundam weapons, but i dunno how much damage that could be.

    “Ignoring everything but Earth would probably result in a swift loss via Colony Laser…”

    I know next to nothing about the gundam verse. I am pretty much just trusting everything you guys are posting. So what can that laser do? Is it still operational in whatever time period this match is in?

    “How are they going to get past that minovsky interference again?”

    ““Military grade sensors. Heavy-duty auspex. Devices so powerful that they could overcome the island’s magnetic distortions. The beast had been made to fight in horrifically inhospitable theatres, resisting toxins, radiations, vacuums, bombardments. It needed to be able to see and hear and smell and target in the middle of hell. The local magnetics that had bested our civilian instruments were nothing to it.”

    This was just titan grade auspex. With an island range. 40k ships have super heavy duty ship auspex that tells them tons of useful shit about planets.

1 2 Next »

Leave A Response

You must be logged in to post a comment.


Web Design MymensinghPremium WordPress ThemesWeb Development

Kingsman – Church Fight Scene

Here's the epic Kingsman - Church Fight Scene in it's entirety:

T E X T F I L E S

One of the first ways to play a computer game. Don't get sucked into the Rabbit Hole Alice... TEXTFILES

Carl Sagan – Wanderers

Wanderers - a short film by Erik Wernquist from Erik Wernquist on Vimeo.



The Most Astounding Fact

From the one and only, Neil deGrasse Tyson.

Vincent Cochetel: Held hostage for 317 days. Amazing Message.

Vincent Cochetel: Held hostage for 317 days. Amazing Message. Watch now.

NASA’s Software Catalog

Yes, now you can build a rocket too - Actually, there is an amazing amount of free software and complete documentation on how to make and perform some amazing feats of science. I'm interested to know what Facts would do with it... Click here to get started!

Mining the Moon

It's going to happen soon - there are a ton to rare Earth Metals on that big old rock in the sky! Check out this infographic!

Michio Kaku: The Universe In a Nutshell

Fantastic video that easily explains physics of our universe: Michio Kaku - Universe in a Nutshell

Raiders of the Lost Ark – Conception Transcribed

Raiders of the Lost Ark - This is an amazing read on the thought process between George Lucas, Steven Spielberg and Lawrence Kasdan as they talk through the concepts of this amazing film. It's practically peering into the thought process of some of the most influential film makers of our day. And amazingly, shows how creative Lucas was.

Help Out Nepal

Finally a good reason to support Destiny.

Modern Gaming

Sad but true.

Curiosity Rover Spotted by Mars Orbiter on Mount Sharp

Humanity is the invading alien now...

Nope

No way I go here alone

17 Rare Star Wars Pictures

To see them, click here

Comic Con 2013 Cosplay Gallery

Just a ton of pictures of cosplayers from the 2013 Comic Con event

Ancient Aliens Map

If you ever watched the show "Ancient Aliens" and wanted a quick reference to where all the locations they mention are at, this is the site for you!

Fictional Universes Database

Soon to be shut down by Google, but here is a great starting point for Fictional Universes

99 Star Wars Pics

Some are cool, some are a bit absurd, but they are all based on Star Wars

Alternate Movie Posters

Something a bit distinct - Check them out

Epic Swiss Army Knife

Not Really...

Future Me

Write yourself an email letter to the future - Future Me

Neil Degrasse Tyson

Star Talk Radio - As always, keep looking up!