Roronoa Zoro Vs Date Masamune

Roronoa Zoro Vs Date Masamune

Brought to you by Friendlysociopath

For this fight we have Roronoa Zoro who arrives from the One Piece universe facing off against Date Masamune from the Sengoku Basara franchise, both this character and this franchise making their debut on BankGambling.

The fight takes place at Machu Picchu (opens new window)

Who wins?

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66 Comments on "Roronoa Zoro Vs Date Masamune"

  1. pimpmage November 10, 2014 at 8:04 am -      #1

    I have really been waiting for a good match to feature zoro in. I guess I have been beaten to that. And he doesn’t have any pre TS limitations either! So Cool!

    Anyway, zoro has been a casual bullet timer since very early in the series. He now has a power called haki that enables him to casually aim dodge any attacks he isn’t fast enough to perceive.

    He also have friggin ridiculous strength. Though the extent has yet to be shown so far.

    He has a fight possibly coming up with foe that has been shown to be much weaker than zoro so I doubt he would go all out.

    Lastly, he has been able to slice a city size stone golem in half:
    i28.mangapanda.com/one-piece/754/one-piece-5072639.jpg
    i3.mangapanda.com/one-piece/754/one-piece-5072641.jpg

  2. Friendlysociopath November 10, 2014 at 8:35 am -      #2

    Zora and Date have a lot in common, so I figured it would be good to put them together.
    Both use multiple swords
    They’re both the 2nd Hero of their series
    And they share the same voice actor too

    Right, @11:10 this is a fight between Date and the main hero, Sanada. @12:16 you can see the energy output. He’s got a bit of power to him.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUeeSimdKFo

    @18:07-18:35 1st Speed feat, blocking hundreds of arrows a second

    Plus I really wanted to get Sengoku Basara onto this site, one of the villains is patently OP, I wanted to get ideas for a match for him- any suggestions for Hideyoshi?
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwVe1OR_fWE

  3. Friendlysociopath November 10, 2014 at 8:54 am -      #3

    Aw, speed feat didn’t go? Let’s try that again.
    @18:01-18:35, speed feat, lot’s of arrow blocking
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj6K1l98RZI

    Also, to show that blast isn’t a one-time thing
    @1:30, this time the blast knocks down soldiers a distance away
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ_nnJKRmfM

  4. Rookie November 10, 2014 at 9:26 am -      #4

    I remember that Narutoforums placed Date on FTL level in terms of speed, because of his orbital drop in “last party” and during with first battle against Nobunaga. If this is true he stomps. Anyway Date one-shotted Hideyoshi, he should stomp here anyway.

    Date and Yuki vs Oda (important moment from 8:40):

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=qutpfIP9tPY

  5. Tails111 November 10, 2014 at 10:36 am -      #5

    This is an interesting match.

    Masamune has better speed feats, and flashier moves, but Zoro has better strength feats…

    @Friendlysociopath

    Isn’t Hideyoshi the dude who evaporated a whole ocean by punching the ground? Yikes.

  6. Guardian Dualgunner M1911A1 November 10, 2014 at 11:05 am -      #6

    Intriguing match–got my eye on it.

  7. pimpmage November 10, 2014 at 12:02 pm -      #7

    I am wry work right now, but here is a slightly out of date respect thread for zoro. It’s missing the latest 30 or so chapters.

    www.comicvine.com/roronoa-zoro/4005-47925/forums/zoro-respect-thread-1535452/

  8. Rookie November 10, 2014 at 12:32 pm -      #8

    @Tails111

    “but Zoro has better strength feats…”
    “better strength feats”

    With all due respect you are wrong about this. Please watch video above about Hideyoshi.
    Date killed him in one on one battle. He literally one-shotted him after he became serious.
    Since when did Zoro ever defeated anyone this strong?

  9. pimpmage November 10, 2014 at 1:31 pm -      #9

    Hey rookie. You must not have seen the scans I posted first. He cut a city+ sized stone golem in half. The video you speak of shows the destruction of a military fort. The golem in the scans literally has dozens of miniscule four story buildings scattered all across it’s body. I can post more scans when I get home.

    City sized golem> military fort

  10. Friendlysociopath November 10, 2014 at 1:35 pm -      #10

    Pretty sure he meant Hideyoshi punching out the inland sea for a strength feat. Date beats him in combat, might be able to find the video, Season 2 is hard to find- Funimation is pretty diligent it taking it down for some reason. Check the 2nd video of my first post for Hideyoshi strength feats. About a minute in is his punching the ocean hard enough to make water vanish as far as the eye can see.

    Eh, not the most cohesive video but
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn0Y4LazKKo
    Date straight up out-powers Hideyoshi.

  11. Rookie November 10, 2014 at 1:35 pm -      #11

    @pimpmage

    “City sized golem> military fort”

    What about water thing? Hideyoshi punched so hard that a large portion of the water dissapeared and do not come back for days.

    “He cut a city+ sized stone golem in half.”

    No he did not. Look closely, damage is big, but he did not sliced him in half.
    Also this golem is just as big as that military ship and not city sized. Mountain sized yes, but not city.

  12. pimpmage November 10, 2014 at 1:49 pm -      #12

    In another scan you can see half the golem left standing. Believe me for now, I saw it this morning. I will post out later. And that ocean feat makes no sense. Was it magic or something? Did it all evaporate? The force required to displace water as far as the eye can see, and not having it refill for several days makes no logical sense. Plus, nothing happened to the sea bed right beneath it not the nearby shore. I know it’s a feat, but out is completely nonsensical. How can you pull any sort of strength feat form that?

  13. Rookie November 10, 2014 at 1:58 pm -      #13

    @pimpmage

    “And that ocean feat makes no sense. ”

    It’s because it’s Sengoku Basara. Nobunaga Oda sacrificed 5 billion childrens to Hell in order to get gun.
    Where da hell did he found 5 billion childrens (I doubt that he ever left Japan) for this?!
    Just accept it, this is how Basara works.

    ” I will post out later. ”

    Ok, I’l wait.

    “Was it magic or something? ”

    Nope, Hideyoshi is the only character in Basara who is using mostly strength. He have some magic, but only Earth based one, this is why it didn’t worked in ocean and he needed to remove it first.

  14. pimpmage November 10, 2014 at 3:11 pm -      #14

    i40.mangapanda.com/one-piece/755/one-piece-5083143.jpg

    Top panel.

    Sorry if I don’t understand your explanation of his powers, but punching away an ocean is nonsense when there is still undamaged seabed that close to shore. That has to be something other than pure strength. It has to be magic of some sort. Also, does that guy originate from a manga? If so, we could get some canon showings not laced with filler.

  15. Rookie November 10, 2014 at 3:19 pm -      #15

    @pimpmage

    “. Also, does that guy originate from a manga? ”

    Nah, in this case it is a anime which was made after game became popular. So no manga to help us.

    “Sorry if I don’t understand your explanation of his powers”

    His only magic power is “earthbending” but he can’t use it when he is near water. That’s the only explanation we got.

  16. Friendlysociopath November 10, 2014 at 3:19 pm -      #16

    No, he originates from a Dynasty Warriors knock-off, except the characters were better received and it was given 3 anime seasons and a movie.

    He also knocks a rain of arrows out of the sky and back hard enough to kill the original archers, he does this with a leisurely wave of the arm.
    There is a manga, let me take a look at it.

  17. Friendlysociopath November 10, 2014 at 3:24 pm -      #17

    Okay, weird way to time out.
    The manga is mostly filled with character development.
    Also, how is that full of filler? Almost every episode is about fighting.

  18. Rookie November 10, 2014 at 3:26 pm -      #18

    @Friendlysociopath

    “character development.”

    In Sengoku Basara. They are mad.

    “The manga is mostly filled with character development.”

    Truly mad.

  19. pimpmage November 10, 2014 at 3:55 pm -      #19

    Did the anime originate from the manga or are they separate entities?

  20. Friendlysociopath November 10, 2014 at 4:42 pm -      #20

    As far as I can tell they’re separate, the manga only has Hideyoshi appear once and he doesn’t even do anything.

    The series is meant to be absurd, here’s one of the game openings.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyUsUntBQCI
    This is a universe where Samurai have battlemechs and pirates have boats bigger than cities- that then turn into mechs. Did I point out their horses jump over the gates of the castle if they don’t feel like breaking them?

  21. pimpmage November 11, 2014 at 2:17 am -      #21

    “He also knocks a rain of arrows out of the sky and back hard enough to kill the original archers, he does this with a leisurely wave of the arm.”

    As I am sure you know, zoro has created a large tornado by spinning his swords. The tornado itself is able to cut through incredibly thick steel too. (thats a sharp tornado haha):
    i8.mangapanda.com/one-piece/635/one-piece-2574869.jpg
    And it will even last for quite a bit of time.
    i28.mangapanda.com/one-piece/635/one-piece-2574871.jpg

  22. Friendlysociopath November 11, 2014 at 11:30 am -      #22

    “As I am sure you know, zoro has created a large tornado by spinning his swords.”

    Oh no, I know no such thing lol. I stopped watching One Piece about 6 episodes in, I was disgusted with how they removed Zoro’s rival.
    “Let’s give this little girl awesome sword skills, then let’s kill her off by having her fall down the stairs.”

    That said, Date isn’t really faster than light is he? I mean, he does fly out of atmosphere and back in a couple of seconds, but I thought that was more in tune with sub-relativistic?

  23. Shgon Dunstan November 11, 2014 at 11:34 am -      #23

    So… Someone actually put Zoro up against a some kind of Toon Force user? 😕

  24. Envoy November 11, 2014 at 12:05 pm -      #24

    “Where da hell did he found 5 billion childrens (I doubt that he ever left Japan) for this?!
    Just accept it, this is how Basara works.”
    +
    *Disgusting Laughter*

  25. Friendlysociopath November 11, 2014 at 1:46 pm -      #25

    “So… Someone actually put Zoro up against a some kind of Toon Force user?”

    The main hero of Zoro’s series has the power of rubber, by contrast people who are just uber-strong use toonforce?

  26. pimpmage November 11, 2014 at 2:11 pm -      #26

    If someone can punch away an ocean, I would say that is toonforce.I haven’t watched the show, but if one example exists, surely there must be others.

    “The main hero of Zoro’s series has the power of rubber, by contrast people who are just uber-strong use toonforce?”

    Devil fruits have been explained as being magic. They have limits to them. Toonforce does not have sensible limits.

    “Oh no, I know no such thing lol. I stopped watching One Piece about 6 episodes in, I was disgusted with how they removed Zoro’s rival.”

    Oh the irony. I don’t want to spoil much. But in chapter 50 you find out about the rival he promised that childhood friend he would beat.

    i12.mangapanda.com/one-piece/50/one-piece-2421505.jpg
    i7.mangapanda.com/one-piece/50/one-piece-2421517.jpg

    Do you read manga? It is much easier to enjoy with no time wasting filler that animes enjoy.

  27. Rookie November 11, 2014 at 2:18 pm -      #27

    @pimpmage

    “If someone can punch away an ocean, I would say that is toonforce.I haven’t watched the show, but if one example exists, surely there must be others.”

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvapmJpUAM4

  28. pimpmage November 11, 2014 at 2:32 pm -      #28

    *guy surfs on a sword”
    *guys talk while in “space”*

    -.-

  29. Rookie November 11, 2014 at 2:36 pm -      #29

    @pimpmage

    Told ya.

    But they have some cool themes:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsVtZXrtoEM

  30. Friendlysociopath November 11, 2014 at 3:40 pm -      #30

    I like TM Revolution’s opening, although Hideyoshi’s theme is pretty badass

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=at4PNq8MVAM
    Edit: Whoops, well that’s the song but it isn’t the opening sequence, the song is used for the opening in season 2.
    Also, dude surfs on a rocket-powered trident, not a sword.

  31. Friendlysociopath November 14, 2014 at 6:17 pm -      #31

    Hmm, does anyone know how fast you have to be falling to physically catch on fire?

  32. pimpmage November 14, 2014 at 7:47 pm -      #32

    Its not the speed at which you fall. Skydivers can fall at terminal velocity all the time. Its the atmosphere that burns you up.

  33. Friendlysociopath November 14, 2014 at 10:59 pm -      #33

    Huh, well, at least they’re consistent with their toonforce.

  34. pimpmage November 14, 2014 at 11:04 pm -      #34

    I don’t know what you mean by that. Punching away an ocean seems pretty inconsistent to talking in space.

  35. Friendlysociopath November 14, 2014 at 11:28 pm -      #35

    Consistent in terms of speed, strength and so on.
    At one point Hideyoshi (the big guy with sideburns) punches a guy skywards, jumps up and hits him back to the Earth. The guy is covered in flames as he plummets, which fits with the supposed speed and strength of the characters.

    It’s an absurd universe, I accept that; it’s one of the reasons I love it. Same reason I like Disgaea.
    Oh well, I stand by the point of both characters being cool and alike, Date’s just a bit less bound by logic than Zoro is.

  36. pimpmage November 15, 2014 at 1:08 am -      #36

    One piece is not at all bound by logic. In OP, Zoro can ‘throw’ sword slashes a good distance…

    Guys as muscle bound as this giant of a man:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5S5pKX7XgY
    Can be thrown around with just a single hand by a guy with the same muscle mass of an average human.

    One piece has it’s own weird logic that it’s writer strictly adheres to. There is so little toonforce in the OP verse if any at all.

  37. Friendlysociopath November 24, 2014 at 10:44 am -      #37

    I’m going to make a BankGambling wiki page for Date, am I wrong for saying I think he wins this match? Or should I specifically wait for a FP award?

  38. pimpmage November 24, 2014 at 11:16 am -      #38

    I am not even sure date can land a hit on zoro. He has been a casual bullet timer since the start of the series. I can think of a feat where he dodges two bullets at near point blank range. That was even before he acquired observation haki. That power allows him to aim dodge stuff he can’t even perceive. The same power allows him to sense people’s auras from at least a city size range. Date couldn’t surprise zoro even if he tried.

  39. Friendlysociopath November 24, 2014 at 12:22 pm -      #39

    Why would he have to surprise Zoro? He looks like he’s perfectly capable of beating him in a fair fight.

    Strength goes to Date by a mile, he straight up outpowers the guy who punches aside the sea. Durability I think also goes to Date, he tanks the punches from said guy.
    As for speed, in case you missed it
    @18:01-18:35, speed feat, he can move pretty fast, that’s not even counting his multiple atmosphere dives
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj6K1l98RZI
    Also, another general in that series charges straight through gatling gunfire, they worry about guns more for their troops than themselves

  40. pimpmage November 24, 2014 at 1:08 pm -      #40

    I guess i can hunt down some more scans when I get home. About that speed feat you posted, zoro has one just like that from halfway in the series. He has only gotten stronger and faster since. Also, you can’t say that date is also capable of punching away an ocean just because he overpowered a guy that was capable of it. Besides, that doesn’t even seem like a feat of strength. Like we discussed earlier, that is more like toon force reality warping due to how nonsensical it is.

  41. Friendlysociopath November 24, 2014 at 1:30 pm -      #41

    Also, you can’t say that date is also capable of punching away an ocean just because he overpowered a guy that was capable of it.

    True, I don’t say Date could punch away the ocean; however, they do the anime thing where both scream and attack one another dead-on, that’s pretty much a strength check. Maybe not punching that hard, but he strikes with near-enough that amount of energy.

    Like we discussed earlier, that is more like toon force reality warping due to how nonsensical it is.

    It’s a strength feat bro, Hideyoshi can’t warp reality; he barely has magic of any kind. The previous villain hits Date and Sanada hard enough to knock them almost into orbit.
    Even disregarding the sea feat, Date strikes hard enough to knock over troops that are miles away from him via shockwaves. Strength is his win.

    Not entirely sure about Date’s speed, different people have different views- I’ve seen everything from hypersonic+ to sub-relativistic. He’s definitely Zoro’s equal in this regard, at minimum.

  42. Friendlysociopath November 24, 2014 at 7:42 pm -      #42

    Ah, I see now why I don’t know of Date’s best speed feat. Apparently at the end of the movie (Which I have not seen)
    Sanada and Date blast off into the atmosphere in a matter of seconds.

  43. pimpmage November 24, 2014 at 9:06 pm -      #43

    Movies are usually not canon to an anime. (I have no clue about that show/movie series) Is this version of date being pulled from only movies? I am not bringing up feats from One piece movies because of that. I am strictly pulling from the manga which is closest to the truth. Thought the anime interpretation exists for the feats i am thinking of, the manga doesn’t give them enough justice. It kinda sucks for me.

  44. Friendlysociopath November 24, 2014 at 9:54 pm -      #44

    Well it’s an anime based off of a video game. Are movies typically noncanon for anime? I honestly don’t know.

    The only anime movies (That came from a series) I’ve seen are Cowboy Bebop’s movie, a Digimon movie and a Pokemon movie and one of the Fullmetal Alchemist ones. I don’t think any of them violated canon.

    That said, I don’t entirely know the plot of the movie. However, I do know the resurrection of the villain they beat in the 1st season is the plot of the movie- so it’s not contradicting previous canon. And it’s not like they’re doing things in the movie they don’t already do in the anime; they’re just doing them better.

    As for whether I think it’s canon, several fight scenes are directly taken from the video game source.
    Like this one
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of7cCI1IBSE

  45. pimpmage November 24, 2014 at 10:14 pm -      #45

    Maybe you should figure out if those movies are canon. Most anime movies are co directed by the original writers to maintain their vision for their series, but the events in the movies fit nowhere in the show. Mayhaps there are movies out there that are declared to be canon by the original author, but they are usually never canon.

  46. Friendlysociopath November 24, 2014 at 10:16 pm -      #46

    I’d have no issue with you using One Piece movies, unless they’re specifically mentioned to be non-canon, I’d be fine with them.

    Beats the hell out of me why people make things non-canon anyways. Even Dissidia is canon for Final Fantasy, it just doesn’t matter because everyone forgets everything.

    As far as I know the movie is canon, considering what we know they get up to in the regular season- the movie is not exactly going against what is expected. They atmosphere dive in the regular series as well, they just go a bit faster and higher in the movie.

    I’ll check it out, but first I have Inquisition to play- I’ve spent 4 days downloading that, time to reap my reward.

  47. pimpmage November 24, 2014 at 10:24 pm -      #47

    None of the one piece movies are canon though. So I can’t use them here.

  48. Friendlysociopath November 24, 2014 at 11:09 pm -      #48

    Ah, well… I hate when people do that… why make a movie then say “Doesn’t count?”

    I’ll look into whether the movie is canon, but even if it isn’t- I’m not exaggerating, they do the exact same things in the regular seasons that they do in the movie.
    Season 1, Date fights Sanada- shockwaves dry up nearby river and knock people over
    Season 2, Date fights Mitsunari- shockwaves knock over soldiers miles away from the fight.

    Season 1, Date and Sanada dive from so far up the sky is black and the curve of the Earth can be seen.
    Movie, Date and Sanada fly off into atmosphere
    Season 2, Hideyoshi punches the pirate leader so far into the sky he’s covered with flames on the way down.

    Season 1, Date cuts hundreds of arrows out of the air. Another general runs straight through gatling gunfire to get at the enemy.
    Season 2, Mitsunari fights at such speed the ground explodes behind him.

    As far as consistency goes, it seems pretty in line.

  49. pimpmage November 24, 2014 at 11:27 pm -      #49

    I know there is consistency in almost every movie adaptation. That is why the original author is there for. Many of the one piece movies fit quite well actually, many of them take place in the down time between canon adventures. But they are still not canon because none of the characters in the movies actually exist the the OP verse.

  50. Friendlysociopath November 25, 2014 at 11:42 am -      #50

    “Many of the one piece movies fit quite well actually, many of them take place in the down time between canon adventures. But they are still not canon because none of the characters in the movies actually exist the the OP verse”

    I don’t mean fitting in by plot (Sengoku Basara isn’t very big on that) I mean by power levels. Everything they do in the movie they do in the regular series, in some cases the regular seasons even exceed the values (see the ocean puncher, that’s not from the movie) so even if the movie wasn’t canon, Date’s strength and speed values barely change- if they’re even affected.

  51. Friendlysociopath November 25, 2014 at 10:03 pm -      #51

    I’m curious how people got such widely divergent numbers when calculating.
    I’m seeing estimates at Mach 500 at the lowest and Mach 40,000 at the highest, for the same exact feat, those orbital dives Date makes.

  52. pimpmage November 25, 2014 at 10:09 pm -      #52

    Ok, I know he originates from an anime, but you are saying he is ‘falling’ faster than terminal velocity. Is he somehow making himself fall much faster? Also, just because someone has feats of surviving extreme heat doesn’t mean they can withstand being slashed to bits by a sword.

  53. Friendlysociopath November 25, 2014 at 10:43 pm -      #53

    Hold up, misunderstanding.
    The guy who falls covered in flames is the pirate guy, not Masamune. However, he was evidently punched high enough that he caught on fire as he descended.
    (He descended at high speed because Hideyoshi jumped above him to punch him back to the Earth)

    I’m just finding various ways of supporting the characters jumping in and out of atmosphere for attacks, which makes them pretty darn fast. Hideyoshi doesn’t use fire, and the guy is on fire as he’s descending after he was punched. The only way he’d be on fire from falling would be if he’s falling from atmospheric heights.

    The main characters can totally fly, that’s not even a question. But Date and several other characters dive in and out of the atmosphere (possibly orbit actually) in a matter of seconds when fighting.

  54. Friendlysociopath December 13, 2014 at 11:09 pm -      #54

    Btw, I made a Date Masamune page on the BankGambling wiki- if someone could double-check to see if I messed up I’d appreciate it

  55. pimpmage March 7, 2015 at 8:59 pm -      #55

    So, new feats for zoro came out. As well as some video representation to show scale.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPDtapBTz2s
    Here is the island sized devil fruit user named Pica. He is made of billions of tons of stone.
    Here is a video of Pica in motion. Skip to 1:10.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANaezvoEOII

  56. pimpmage March 7, 2015 at 9:00 pm -      #56

    i9.mangapanda.com/one-piece/778/one-piece-5517487.jpg
    i26.mangapanda.com/one-piece/778/one-piece-5517489.jpg
    i30.mangapanda.com/one-piece/778/one-piece-5517491.jpg

  57. Friendlysociopath March 7, 2015 at 11:31 pm -      #57

    I FOUND IT
    *ahem*
    I found the clip I’ve been looking for, the one everyone uses for the speed feat

    @2:34 Date and Sanada get their moment
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXGdRnHm1k8
    Pause @3:08 to get a good look at how fast they flew

    Also, after downloading the 2nd season- Date does outright beat Hideyoshi is a strength contest. The two charge up and attack one another directly, meaning Date is stronger than Hideyoshi since Date won the clash. However, that’s not quantifiable so just saying he’s equal to Hideyoshi would be fine.

    Also, for the Hideyoshi ocean-punching feat, it took half a day for the water to come back.

  58. pimpmage March 8, 2015 at 1:52 am -      #58

    So, Zoro isn’t a speedster in terms of movement. Thought he has shown many times throughout the series to be able to easily react to and respond or dodge to things much faster than those guys in that video.

    Here at 12:30. He deflects hundreds of slashes in the span of a few seconds, then withstands hundreds more after that. This was more than 2 years before the current beast that is zoro. He has only gotten stronger and faster since he learned to use observation haki. Which is remarkable similar to having spidey sense.

    www.dailymotion.com/video/x1wk69j_one-piece-episode-299-fierce-sword-attacks-zoro-vs-kaku-powerful-sword-fighting-showdown_shortfilms

    Or here at 0:30. Once again 2 years previous to current era zoro.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpLM32HnuWU

    I will keep an eye on more recent reaction speeds for zoro.

  59. pimpmage March 8, 2015 at 1:59 am -      #59

    “Also, for the Hideyoshi ocean-punching feat, it took half a day for the water to come back.”

    I remember commenting on this already. This is not a strength feat.

  60. Friendlysociopath March 8, 2015 at 11:05 pm -      #60

    This is not a strength feat.

    Yes it is. Hideyoshi is strong, that’s his thing. Your comment was “that makes no sense”. That’s not refuting or discrediting the feat.

    observation haki

    If I remember right, haki is like PIS embodied, it only ever works when needed and not a bit more.

  61. pimpmage March 9, 2015 at 6:21 am -      #61

    “Yes it is. Hideyoshi is strong, that’s his thing. Your comment was “that makes no sense”. That’s not refuting or discrediting the feat.”

    Yes it is refuting it. It is not a strength based feat. It is reality warping. If say… a meteor were to hit that was pretty sizable. It would ‘push away the ocean’ but not for very long at all. It would have also devastated the surrounding land for miles around. You are saying his punch would have the effect of a meteor(just go with it) without all the effects that come after something striking that hard. The sea bed like 20 ft below him as well as the shore that if I recall correctly was only like a few hundred yards distant was completely uneffected. This is reality warping. The showings do not match up with your conclusion.

    “If I remember right, haki is like PIS embodied, it only ever works when needed and not a bit more.”

    No, it is CiS. It makes for good story when someone gets surprised. Even though they should technically never be surprised.

    This haki was explained very well in this clip. Start at 1:30 and you can stop at 2:17.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SEXK0EhK0Y

    The one way to beat this is to just speedblitz. Here is an example of speed blitzing observation haki users. Cut to 31:51, you can stop at 33:27.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GoIw38qaFE

  62. Friendlysociopath March 9, 2015 at 7:02 am -      #62

    Yes it is refuting it. It is not a strength based feat. It is reality warping.

    You’re saying that because it doesn’t perfectly match up with what physics would say would happen in that scenario which is true for almost every fictional feat. Do we say FTL people can’t do it because there’s no massive explosion? Do we say people who go supersonic aren’t because there’s no sound barrier?
    Of course not, it’s stupid to not accept a feat just because the writer didn’t follow the rules 100% to your satisfaction.

    Your only reason it’s not a strength feat is the equivalent of you sitting there going “no because I said so”. DBZ characters and even One Piece characters can do impossible things just through using chi, why can’t Hideyoshi?

    The sea bed like 20 ft below him as well as the shore that if I recall correctly was only like a few hundred yards distant was completely uneffected.

    We see giant ships sailing over that sea all the time, it’s not only 20 feet deep in all areas; water is gone as far as the eye can see. And Hideyoshi’s height fluctuates.

  63. pimpmage March 9, 2015 at 8:08 am -      #63

    “You’re saying that because it doesn’t perfectly match up with what physics would say would happen in that scenario which is true for almost every fictional feat. ”

    It matches like your conclusion in only 1 way. Water was displaced. Its been a while since I saw that feat, but let me explain. Only water was displaced. Nothing else. land wasn’t displaced, water didn’t leave the atmosphere, Occam’s razor says this is reality warping. There is too much information missing to prove your conclusion.

    “Your only reason it’s not a strength feat is the equivalent of you sitting there going “no because I said so”. ”

    No, its not. I am saying no because a better explanation of the feat is reality warping. Not physical strength.

    “DBZ characters and even One Piece characters can do impossible things just through using chi, why can’t Hideyoshi?”

    Ok, can you iterate on this?

    “We see giant ships sailing over that sea all the time, it’s not only 20 feet deep in all areas; water is gone as far as the eye can see. And Hideyoshi’s height fluctuates.”

    Can you repost that video?

  64. Friendlysociopath March 9, 2015 at 8:34 am -      #64

    Can you repost that video?

    Ocean puncher Hideyoshi? Sure.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwVe1OR_fWE

    Ok, can you iterate on this?

    DBZ characters jump higher than the clouds even before Super Saiyans were introduced, they did it through inner power, chi, spirit energy, whatever.
    Point being, they did something impossible through sheer willpower.
    Zoro is base human, but has enough strength to throw a house, cut apart a giant stone person, and creates whirlwinds that follow people. The explanation for this is what? Extreme training? Why is Zoro not reality warping but Hideyoshi is?

    Only water was displaced. Nothing else. land wasn’t displaced, water didn’t leave the atmosphere,

    Some water would seem to be evaporated to steam, and we see chunks of rock flying around. They did try to emulate what you describe.

    Again, you’re asking for scientific accuracy from a fictional universe, we don’t term everything else that doesn’t work properly reality warping, why is that specific feat reality warping and not everything else? The explanation is perfectly clear, Hideyoshi is strong enough to punch the ocean aside.

  65. pimpmage March 9, 2015 at 11:16 am -      #65

    “Ocean puncher Hideyoshi? Sure.”

    Next time could you post time stamps? Ok, he parted the sea like you said. Where did the water go? Did it all evaporate? Nothing about this feat tells me it was strength based.

    “Zoro is base human, but has enough strength to throw a house, cut apart a giant stone person, and creates whirlwinds that follow people. The explanation for this is what? Extreme training? Why is Zoro not reality warping but Hideyoshi is?”

    Everyone in one piece is mortal. They are not human compared to how real humans are. Everyone in that universe is super tough regardless of how strong they are. In one part of the series, we see lowly red shirt soldiers get backhanded by the strongest man in the world. Real humans should have literally been turned into a bloody mist by the forces acted on them. These red shirts were probably just knocked out cold. Zoro cutting a city sized golem in to many pieces from probably half a city away is strange when he only has a regular sized sword, yes. But the outcome of his attacks tell us the exact range and cutting power he has. I am not extrapolating this into meaning that he must have the strength to lift that city sized golem just because he cut it to pieces so easily. Did you watch all the stuff I posted since you necroed this thread?

  66. Friendlysociopath March 9, 2015 at 11:26 am -      #66

    since you necroed this thread?

    What? YOU posted to bring this back up- and yes.

    Everyone in that universe is super tough regardless of how strong they are.

    Now see, this is also true of Sengoku Basara. Regular troops are tossed around like leaves by all the heroes and they get back up. Some of Date’s troops are at ground zero of a small nuke and they walk (okay, crawl) away still alive.

    I am not extrapolating this into meaning that he must have the strength to lift that city sized golem just because he cut it to pieces so easily.

    And I said nothing of the sort for Hideyoshi. I gave his best strength feat and pointed out Date is stronger. Hideyoshi punched the floor of the ocean and the resulting force removed it: rocks flew, massive clouds of steam arose, a hurricane started throwing people around- everything you wanted to see is there, just not to the measure you accept.

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