Star Wars Vs Warhammer 40K, Halo & Star Trek

Star Wars Vs Warhammer 40K, Halo & Star Trek

Suggested by Commander Farsight

Composite Star Wars has a Wormhole 1,000 km in diameter, connecting to 40k‘s galaxy. Halo and Star Trek‘s galaxies are connected to 40k’s by identical wormholes.

Each Wormhole is stationed at each galaxies’ capital. (Coruscant, Terra, and both Earths.)

They have two months to share tech, colonize any spare worlds.

No Gods, Omnipotents, excluding the Chaos Gods. Chaos can still corrupt Star Wars.

Which side wins?

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627 Comments on "Star Wars Vs Warhammer 40K, Halo & Star Trek"

  1. GMoney November 21, 2014 at 11:40 pm -      #401

    “Nobody has answered my query about the Warp mindraping everyone conneected to the Force, considering that Force=Warp. SW could get messed up pretty badly if that happens.”

    The gods have never shown the ability to mass mind rape at will and in the 40k verse Psykers can protect their minds from other Psykers and daemons. Because force=warp and most force users can mentally protect themselves from other force users. I believe that it’s safe to say that most force users will be able to protect themselves.

    “Ahem. The problem with WH40K Warp Travel not possible beyond the Galaxy is, as someone mentioned, sharing tech. WH40K gets ST Warp or Halo Slipspace, problem solved.”

    The problem with that is that they only get 2 months of prep which isn’t enough time to outfit all of 40k.

    “Really though, with Time Travel, couldn’t IoM travel back to HH or before and reclaim a metric arse-ton of tech and become a huge stompy-stomp force?”

    BankGambling rules prevent people from going back before the match. Additionally, Great Crusade Era Imperium is not significantly more powerful than 40k IOM.

    “Also, if people are bringing up problems with composite, what about the alliance thing? What are the rules to that? Surely they don’t just all think as one all of a sudden, which means tech sharing and other stuff like it could be difficult. If it isn’t just the mindless alliance and becoming one, wouldn’t the IoM at least protest a little bit to working with all these people who couldn’t give a toss about The Emperor.”

    BankGambling rules means everyone gets along against the new enemy.

    “I should have addressed it earlier, but which scenario of ‘if the Emperor dies’ are we going with? I have heard two theories, the ‘Starchild’ or the IoM basically collapses and Chaos consumes all humans or whatever. This could have an impact on how things will play out. Especially if the Golden Throne is destroyed and the Big E dies.”

    Those are just theories though. For all we know it could do nothing but shut down the Astronomican, or not even that.

  2. FezzesRCool11 November 21, 2014 at 11:43 pm -      #402

    @GMoney
    Nope, no double posting for you.Though I do agree with you, I think he is reading into this WAY too much. He made an intelligent point, but it really is just nitpicking the rules. Still, good point by him which MAY be a part of the composite rules or specifically stated in a match description at some point.

  3. FezzesRCool11 November 21, 2014 at 11:45 pm -      #403

    Cool. Thanks for clarifying, I’m rather new to this site.

  4. Sauroposeidon November 21, 2014 at 11:46 pm -      #404

    “Uh, yes we are. There is no way SW can cope with that. All you have said so far is that SW can brush it off within a month. Completely baseless wank. You stop that.”

    Except we’ve already covered it, and the response was “but that was a standing army!” when I cited that the entire clone army was mobilized OVER NIGHT across how many light years? All to perform a coordinated strike on a single planet.

    SW has this shit covered.

    “No, they have never been shown to make phrik ever. Dont say PIS is an excuse. They would have made everything ever out of it.”

    Why would they make phrik? Durasteel is probably much easier to work with. What they were making was extremely advanced droid starfighters who’s positronic brains were able to make them a match for living pilots.

    Remember, the way they were set up, NOTHING stood a chance against them. No one was able to stop them. The only thing that was able to make them stop was when they were commanded to attack each other.

    They were, at the time, virtually the perfect weapon… at what point would introducing phrik make things better? It’s much more useful as a hand held weapon for fighting jedi..of which there were none left at the time.

    I am also not certain phrik was in the franchise at that point. I think it’d be interesting to find that out.

    “Nobody has answered my query about the Warp mindraping everyone conneected to the Force, considering that Force=Warp. SW could get messed up pretty badly if that happens.”

    Because the warp mind raping generally seems to rely on the author saying so or weak will. When the subject of deamonettes who were too sexy to resist came up Iknew 40k was full of idiots.

    “Really though, with Time Travel, couldn’t IoM travel back to HH or before and reclaim a metric arse-ton of tech and become a huge stompy-stomp force?”

    No,

    A. Composite IoM still got stomped by composite GE. There’s no reason to think this would go a different direction JUST because of the inclusion of that tech.

    B.You can’t go back in time before the start of the match according to FP rules.

    “Also, if people are bringing up problems with composite, what about the alliance thing? What are the rules to that? Surely they don’t just all think as one all of a sudden, which means tech sharing and other stuff like it could be difficult. If it isn’t just the mindless alliance and becoming one, wouldn’t the IoM at least protest a little bit to working with all these people who couldn’t give a toss about The Emperor.”

    It’s assumed they work together begrudgingly. They may or may not make certain sacrifices and tech trade or not depending on CiS, but usually they’ll do what they must to win. The question is more would the IoM break down and tech trade in time to win or whatever.

    ” IoM basically collapses and Chaos consumes all humans ”

    This, usually.

    It’s generally easier to debate against Chaos than it is to hypothesize about the shit with nothing more than vague lines.

  5. FezzesRCool11 November 21, 2014 at 11:52 pm -      #405

    “It’s generally easier to debate against Chaos than it is to hypothesise about the shit with nothing more than vague lines”

    Fair point, Chaos actually exists,whereas the ‘Starchild’ is just a theory, and from what I’ve seen, a vague one at that. Can’t really debate against something so vague nobody has any clues what it can do.

  6. erickyboo November 21, 2014 at 11:57 pm -      #406

    ⛔“I wasn’t following the debate much, so in essence it’s, star wars EU composite, VS non composite, halo, star trek and war hammer?

    That appears to be the case.”⛔

    Ah. But to upgrade warhammer ships, my proposed tactic is to set up slip space shuttles built at Trevelyan with huragoks inside to get to warhammer ships and outfit them with slip space drives. I guess they’d need the position.

    If I remember correctly, weren’t the World machine thingies defeated when R2 uploaded a virus into them?

    If I remember correctly, the

  7. Darth Bombad November 22, 2014 at 12:00 am -      #407

    @erickyboo Yes and no omnipitents.

    As for upgrading the 40k navy with Trek tech you do realise that
    warp speed is still vastly inferior to Hyperspace right?.

    Even slipspace is far below them… usually, like all things HALO
    its really inconsistent but the UNSC’s are by far the worst.
    even with their new “borrowed” Forerunner and covenant tech.

    And i don’t think warp equals Force their only similar on the surface.
    And if they are compatible than one is a psychic realm created by
    intelligent thought a few thousand to maybe a million years old.

    The other is a universal constant that binds all matter together and
    exists in all living things, so Force>>>>Warp.

  8. FezzesRCool11 November 22, 2014 at 12:07 am -      #408

    “As for upgrading the 40k navy with Trek tech you do realise that warp speed is still vastly inferior to Hyperspace right?”

    As far as I’m aware, only in raw speed, as I think Hyperspace needs plotted routes or something like that, while Trek doesn’t, so it is more practical in terms of tactical uses, such as the Picard Maneuver, and flexibility of travel + can invade other galaxies more easily,as it doesn’t need to be plotted. Quite happy to be corrected if I’m wrong though.

    “Force>>>>Warp”

    In what way? In terms of importance to the respective verses, sure, but that isn’t quite relevant to the debate.

  9. GMoney November 22, 2014 at 12:11 am -      #409

    “As far as I’m aware, only in raw speed, as I think Hyperspace needs plotted routes or something like that, while Trek doesn’t, so it is more practical in tactical uses, such as the Picard Maneuver. Quite happy to be corrected if I’m wrong though.”

    It does. But composite Star Wars has Infinity Gates and Hypergates. Which are basically Stargates on crack. And I’m not sure the Picard Maneuver would work with a 40k ship.


    General Star Trek question: what are the numbers for the Borg and Species 8474-something?

  10. FezzesRCool11 November 22, 2014 at 12:28 am -      #410

    Species 8472. Numbers not really known, they kind of live in fluidic space and I don’t think Voyager actually goes there, so we have fuck-all clue of if the 9 ships are all they have or if they are a huge empire and are just using a tiny portion of their force to attack the Borg because they just give that few shits about them.

    Borg. Probably in the billions upon billions, although if the Borg Unicomplex is destroyed currently then who knows what sort of forces they have now. I haven’t seen much of the Borg after that.

  11. Darth Bombad November 22, 2014 at 1:05 am -      #411

    “In what way? In terms of importance to the respective verses, sure, but that isn’t quite relevant to the debate.”

    In terms of strength, the Force has a will of its own and will always seek balance and order.
    If it sensed a chaotic anomaly like the Warp it would definitely try and correct the imbalance.

    And besides collective will controls the warp right?, imagine all the Force users united.
    Hell they might even create their own anti-chaos god or something.
    All i’m saying is the Warp probably has more to fear from Star Wars than vise versa.

  12. Neon Lord November 22, 2014 at 1:46 am -      #412

    “It is the known canon ability for a WD to de-molecularize whatever it consumes and then recombine those atoms to form something new. ”

    Actual source on this?

    ‘But composite Star Wars has Infinity Gates and Hypergates. Which are basically Stargates on crack.”

    Do they need something at both ends of travel?

    “In terms of strength, the Force has a will of its own and will always seek balance and order.
    If it sensed a chaotic anomaly like the Warp it would definitely try and correct the imbalance.”

    Um, not really. It’s up to the actions of the people to correct it, like Luke killing Sidious.

    “And besides collective will controls the warp right?”

    No, raw emotion feeds it. Nothing controls it.

    “All i’m saying is the Warp probably has more to fear from Star Wars than vise versa.”

    Not when the Warp has Chaos, which actively has a far larger effect than anything the Force ever has.

  13. FezzesRCool11 November 22, 2014 at 2:09 am -      #413

    @Darth Bombad
    I see what you are getting at, but I think that it has been established we are using the Force=Warp rule from IoM vs GE debate. This isn’t a ‘Force is of equal power to Warp’ thing, it is a ‘Treat Warp and Forcce as same thing.’ This is why I was asking about the whole wouldn’t everyone who’s connected to the Force be subject to the effects of the Warp, i.e.Heads popping when they use the Force, randomly spawning daemons and other fun shenanigans that the Warp causes. If we aren’t using that rule, then see Neon Lord’s post.

  14. Neon Lord November 22, 2014 at 3:38 am -      #414

    “This is why I was asking about the whole wouldn’t everyone who’s connected to the Force be subject to the effects of the Warp, ”

    The agreement in the IoM vs GE thread was not “Force and Warp are same thing”, but that psychic powers designed to disrupt/affect psychics will work on force, and vice versa for force powers. In no way were they the same thing; each still retains its own inherent flaws and advantages.

  15. Tyran November 22, 2014 at 9:33 am -      #415

    The few remaining Forerunners can upgrade the 40k factions with Forerunner tech. It will take time, but as the Sector Solar is going to be a massive Warp Rift, they have all the time they need.

  16. the watcher November 22, 2014 at 9:45 am -      #416

    The Picard Maneuver, or something like it, has been done in warhammer, I think it was by the Alpha Legion and Ciaphas Cain. It didn’t work to confuse sensors, but it did manage to get ships inside the enemy fleet.

  17. Sauroposeidon November 22, 2014 at 9:46 am -      #417

    “Actual source on this?”

    The fiction in which they appear. It’s what they do. It’s why they’re scary. They EAT planets, and build fleets.

    How little experience do you have with SW, exactly? I can fetch you a list (although it is limited) of their appearances if you want. They’re probably one of the more interesting super weapons in SW.

  18. GMoney November 22, 2014 at 11:22 am -      #418

    “Do they need something at both ends of travel?”

    Hypergates do Infinity Gates do not, but it’s a 1-way trip. Infinity Gates can also be used as a super-weapon. My original idea for SW’s tactic was that they would move a black hole over the wormhole and then fire infinity waves AD infinium. But now that the Forerunners are out of the match (who I still think SW could take but not with all the other factions together) I believe they can potentially brute force there way to victory.

    “Um, not really. It’s up to the actions of the people to correct it, like Luke killing Sidious.”

    Actually The force does have a will of it’s own. It birthed Anakin. Speaking of which, since this is composite, would Anakin get his full Chosen One powers or would he be Darth Vader?

    “Not when the Warp has Chaos, which actively has a far larger effect than anything the Force ever has.”

    Ahh but Chaos can only influence this reality when the barrier between the warp and the Materium is weak or when they Yareli’s summoned through a ritual.

    “Ie.Heads popping when they use the Force, randomly spawning daemons and other fun shenanigans that the Warp causes. If we aren’t using that rule, then see Neon Lord’s post.”

    No. The force would still work the same way as it does before but it would be shut down by Blanks and Psykers would be shut down by Ysalimiri. The 2 forces would also act as if they were 1. Like, for example If a Psyker tried to TK a force user through a building with he warp, the force user could block it with the force.

  19. OberHerr November 22, 2014 at 11:57 am -      #419

    Correct, they do use all resources to make Durasteel and such. Common metals in SW. Yet NEVER have we even heard vaguely of anyone making Phrik besides mining it, due to its rarity. Unless you have sauce, you can’t just say “Well, they would if they didn’t have PIS”. We don’t know much about the conversion process. We don’t know how much it takes to do said process. And we certainly have no proof that they can make just any metal because they can make some far simpler and less rare ones.

  20. Sauroposeidon November 22, 2014 at 12:27 pm -      #420

    Your line of thought is faulty,

    If they can re-arrange atoms, they can make phrik. It’s that simple.

    Although Quantum Armor is more common and stronger at this point, especially since they have the scientist who knows how to make it.

    It is stated in the Dark Empire Source Book at it “molecularizes” what it breaks down. This means it has the ability to break down atomic bonds and then reform them in to whatever it wants.

    These things are cited as eating star destroyers. I don’t think it’s very difficult for them to do whatever they want. Phrik is also not mined, it is made. Phrikite and Tydirium are used in the construction of Phrik. I’m partial to it since it’s so extremely light. It’s basically gundanium for Star Wars.. but Quantum Armor should be better, since it can supposedly survive being IN a star. Although the hardest substance in SW is probably the Corusca Gem(s). But.. I don’t see how they’d be useful for anything other than bullets. They’re the only thing I know of which easily damages Quantum Armor though.

  21. GMoney November 22, 2014 at 12:32 pm -      #421

    “Correct, they do use all resources to make Durasteel and such. Common metals in SW. Yet NEVER have we even heard vaguely of anyone making Phrik besides mining it, due to its rarity. Unless you have sauce, you can’t just say “Well, they would if they didn’t have PIS”. We don’t know much about the conversion process. We don’t know how much it takes to do said process. And we certainly have no proof that they can make just any metal because they can make some far simpler and less rare ones.”

    Actually Phrik is a naturally occurring element/compound in SW and can be mined. Durasteel on the other hand has to be synthesized. It is also extremely light and malleable in its smelting stage. And it could be combined with a number of elements. So not only is it a naturally occurring element but it is simpler than durasteel, which WD can make.

  22. Malenfant November 22, 2014 at 12:45 pm -      #422

    Great, so Star Wars can sublimate and break down planets for raw materials to convert into ships. That’s basically what a large group of Forerunner Sentinels can do, orders of magnitude faster than real-time. Forerunner’s don’t just break down worlds, they construct worlds. In this, they’re stellar engineers:

    “Onyx shattered and the surface exploded into space. Obscured by layers of dust and fire, a blazing pattern emerged beneath: crosses and lines and dots.
    “Magnification factor one thousand,” Lash ordered.
    Yang was frozen. Waters bent over and tapped in the command. The view on-screen blinked and stepped closerpast boiling air, clouds, tumbling mountains zooming to ground level, revealing a lattice of three-meter-long rods and half-meter blazing red spheres that hovered between them, forming a crystalline structure.
    “Back it off,” Lash said.
    The view pulled back and showed that this drone-constructed scaffolding stretched over kilometers they had been under every landmass, every ocean under the entire surface orderly linked rows like
    the carbon bonds of an infinite polymer chain, or an immense colony of living interlinked army ants.
    The drones were the planet Onyx.
    “There are trillions of them,” Lieutenant Durruno whispered. Clusters of drones heated; culminated beams shot forth again, targeting more distant Covenant vessels and vaporizing them.”-Ghosts of Onyx

    I’ve already posted quotes about the Forerunners creating the frame for 800 meters ships within seconds and how a backwater installation produced six Sentinels/second. Their standard footsoldier is a telekinetic FTL up-linked soldier decked out in adaptive armor equipped with shit like antimatter rifles. They’re back-up includes hypersonic mecha that create depressions seen from orbit as well as swarms of Sentinels that individually can deplete the shields of a Spartan-II, and in small groups (dozens) can shave off the tops of mesas. Conventionally, Star Wars is going to be massacred, even without the Flood or Precursors.

  23. OberHerr November 22, 2014 at 12:57 pm -      #423

    Well then, it should be easy to find sauce for them doing said things, like making Phrik. Except you can’t. Because they don’t. Why? Maybe PIS. Maybe real reasons. We’ll never know, because they never really make anything stronger than normal durasteel.

    And I know Durasteel isn’t natural. My point was its far more common and obviously easy to make.

  24. Sauroposeidon November 22, 2014 at 1:11 pm -      #424

    “Well then, it should be easy to find sauce for them doing said things, like making Phrik. ”

    They use pre-programmed in designs entered by the Empire is probably why.

    My point is, if they wanted to, they could. But I don’t see why they wouldn’t just spit out dozens of sun crushers instead now. Or mount their own Galaxy Guns.

  25. Friendlysociopath November 22, 2014 at 1:13 pm -      #425

    If they have a machine that remakes stuff at the atomic level, that’s all the proof SW really needs. If they can turn water into durasteel, there’s no stated reason they can’t do it for everything else. Water is literally Hyrdrogen and Oxygen, if they turned that into carbon-based metals, there is nothing that they cannot make by using those.
    The premise is sound, you couldn’t make the assumption it can make something Star Wars doesn’t have like say… mythril from LoTR; but anything else that they know the formula for should be fair game.

    @Malenfant
    How much of that current incarnation?

  26. OberHerr November 22, 2014 at 1:32 pm -      #426

    Because we haven’t seen they do anything that complex….and saying “Well water to durasteel, and tough but very destructible metal, vs. Phrik, something virtually indestructible” is simple and easy…..they haven’t shown the ability to make something CLEARLY more complex and VERY different from what they have been shown to.

  27. GMoney November 22, 2014 at 1:34 pm -      #427

    @Malenfant
    Halo is current incarnation. So the Forerunners are shadows of what they used to be.

    “Because we haven’t seen they do anything that complex….and saying “Well water to durasteel, and tough but very destructible metal, vs. Phrik, something virtually indestructible” is simple and easy…..they haven’t shown the ability to make something CLEARLY more complex and VERY different from what they have been shown to.”

    But it isn’t more complex. Phrik is a naturally occurring element, Durasteel is a man made compound. Just because it is more durable dosent mean it’s more complex.

  28. the watcher November 22, 2014 at 4:09 pm -      #428

    There was some mention of Phrik being used to make battle droids, but if that was the case they wouldn’t have been so easily destroyed unless phrik is breakable. Also, something people tend not to get is that it doesn’t matter how durable a ship is if it doesn’t have anything stopping force transfer to the passengers.

    @Sociopath
    Or it was using the air to get carbon to make stuff out of water. Plants do it all the time.

  29. GMoney November 22, 2014 at 4:47 pm -      #429

    “There was some mention of Phrik being used to make battle droids, but if that was the case they wouldn’t have been so easily destroyed unless phrik is breakable. Also, something people tend not to get is that it doesn’t matter how durable a ship is if it doesn’t have anything stopping force transfer to the passengers.”

    Phrik was used by the CIS to make the staffs for their Magnaguards. The same ones that can block Lightsbaers. And most if not all ships in Star Wars have inertial compensators, otherwise going into Hyperspace would kill it’s inhabitants.

  30. Neon Lord November 22, 2014 at 6:38 pm -      #430

    “The fiction in which they appear. It’s what they do. It’s why they’re scary. They EAT planets, and build fleets.”

    I meant the reconstructing atoms statement specifically.

    “It is stated in the Dark Empire Source Book at it “molecularizes” what it breaks down. This means it has the ability to break down atomic bonds and then reform them in to whatever it wants.”

    No it doesn’t. ‘Molecularizes’ doesn’t even seem to be a real word. According to this page though
    en.wiktionary.org/wiki/molecularization
    it’s ‘conversion into a molecule’. This is different from reconstructing atoms into new elements via adding protons and electrons and whatnot. You can rearrange all the carbon atoms-to-molecules you like, but you aren’t going to get uranium out of it. There is no proof to suggest that World Devastators can just generate different elements from old ones.

    “Water is literally Hyrdrogen and Oxygen, if they turned that into carbon-based metals, there is nothing that they cannot make by using those.”

    As the watcher pointed out, there’s carbon in air.
    =
    How long does a World Devastator take to mine a world anyway?

  31. Friendlysociopath November 22, 2014 at 7:34 pm -      #431

    …Yessss, there is carbon in the air- know what isn’t in the air? Or in water? Iron, the thing you need to make steel.

    Why hasn’t anyone just posted the relevant quotes? It’d save so much trouble.

    No it doesn’t. ‘Molecularizes’ doesn’t even seem to be a real word

    Then the author could use it however they want.
    Seriously though, just find the relevant quotes and post them.

  32. the watcher November 22, 2014 at 9:13 pm -      #432

    @Sociopath
    Tell that to a plant species called sphagnum moss. I have several trays of the stuff growing downstairs right now. It sits in plastic trays, with no soil, and all the iron, phosphate, sulphur, and other elements it needs are gathered out of rainwater and the air. There’s really quite a lot of stuff in it, you just need to have a means of getting it. There’s some other stuff in there too, but the venus fltraps that popped up actually eat things so they don’t count.

    But isn’t this about food synthesizers, and the world devastators explicitly do need to eat rocks to create things?

  33. GMoney November 22, 2014 at 9:20 pm -      #433

    Why does it matter if their was carbon or not? Their are still a bunch of other fictional elements that make durasteel that were not present on Mon Calimari.

  34. the watcher November 22, 2014 at 9:32 pm -      #434

    And this would be the devastator making durasteel, right?
    From what I can find, the only element explicitly defined as not being on Mon Calamari is meleenium, and that is used “in trace amounts” according to the wiki, which at the moment is the best I can find. So it’s highly possible that they used whatever they had around before, and only absorbed the new, more common stuff on Calamari. Or it could be a plot hole, given that meleenium is supposed to only be found on one specific world and the number of durasteel items seems to imply that they obtain, in layman’s terms, a metric shitton of it. Even then, if they could make Phrik, I think they would due its lightsaber proofness. Even then, it still isn’t as good as some of the stuff you’d find in 40k.

  35. Neon Lord November 22, 2014 at 10:11 pm -      #435

    Technically, progressive stages of nuclear fusion can be used to also generate iron from hydrogen.

  36. the watcher November 22, 2014 at 10:27 pm -      #436

    Yeah, but that takes a death star level of power to do.

  37. GMoney November 22, 2014 at 10:39 pm -      #437

    Not only do we have no proof that the elements that are needed to make durasteel are on the planet, besides carbon 2 of them (Meleenium and Zersium) are only found in specific places.

  38. Sauroposeidon November 22, 2014 at 11:43 pm -      #438

    “No it doesn’t. ‘Molecularizes’ doesn’t even seem to be a real word. According to this page though”

    Dude…

    “Raw materials are molecularized and siphoned
    off to the fabrication plants deep in the
    bellies of these behemoth constructs.”

    Is the EXACT quote.

    “Shattering chemical
    bonds with intrinsic force negators, the materials
    could be stored in force bubbles of thallium, cadmium,
    impervium and other metals.”

    Is another quote.

    “Even as this second Death Star was being
    assembled, Umak Leth, Chief Engineer to the
    Emperor, came to his master with a new design
    for a molecular furnace that could break down the
    physical structure of matter”

    ANOTHER quote.

    You can play word games all you want, but it’s stated repeatedly in canon. They break down shit to it’s most basic level an then make new shit out of it. They rip apart hydrogen and oxygen and make METAL.

    The chemical bonds bit is probably the nail in the coffin.

    “A chemical bond is an attraction between atoms that allows the formation of chemical substances that contain two or more atoms. The bond is caused by the electrostatic force of attraction between opposite charges, either between electrons and nuclei, or as the result of a dipole attraction.”

    Is the definition for a chemical bond.

    Basically this means it can rip atoms apart.

    “How long does a World Devastator take to mine a world anyway?”

    I don’t think anyone has waited around to find out. After they destroy everything of value on a planet the Empire moved them to a new one. They didn’t last very long thanks to Luke’s sabotage. Considering their current size I would presume it would take “a very, very long size.” But as they build themselves up and become bigger and bigger it would, over time, take them less time to accomplish such. That’s what makes them so scary to the people in star wars. They can’t be worn down. They can’t run out of steam. They always have supplies, always have power, always have fuel. Even when shut down their factories kept pumping out entire armies.

    Those quotes I got are from ONE source. Just one. Would you like me to gather more? I mean, they don’t appear often, but when they do the same shit is repeated over and over and over again about them. They eat everything. Build whatever they want. Spit out a ridiculously difficult to fight army, and then move on.

  39. Sauroposeidon November 23, 2014 at 12:01 am -      #439

    “As the watcher pointed out, there’s carbon in air.”

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=N51Chjl1smM

    These “baby” World Devastators are very specifically eating the ground, air, and water. So you have a point.. but what about the other components? They’re producing droid tie fighters, with sensitive and complex computer brains.

  40. Neon Lord November 23, 2014 at 12:10 am -      #440

    “Basically this means it can rip atoms apart.”

    Do you even chemistry. Breaking chemical bonds does not mean ripping atoms apart. Chemical bonds binds atoms together to form molecules. You can rearrange any type of atom to form molecular structures as much as you like, but you won’t be getting any new types of atoms out of it.

    “The chemical bonds bit is probably the nail in the coffin.”

    In terms of disproving the generation of different elements from others, yes it is.

    The only way you are turning hydrogen and oxygen into metal is via nuclear fusion. And the higher the atomic number is past iron, the more astronomically large amount of energy you need to fuse into a higher element i.e. supernova levels of energy. And the less product you get out of it.

  41. GMoney November 23, 2014 at 12:19 am -      #441

    “In terms of disproving the generation of different elements from others, yes it is.”

    You still haven’t shown how the Devastators obtained elements unique to certain places.

    “The only way you are turning hydrogen and oxygen into metal is via nuclear fusion. And the higher the atomic number is past iron, the more astronomically large amount of energy you need to fuse into a higher element i.e. supernova levels of energy. And the less product you get out of it.”

    It also takes the energy of multiple stars to fire the Death Star’s laser so that isn’t out of the question. Also, this is Sci-Fi, are you really expecting it to follow the laws of science?

  42. Neon Lord November 23, 2014 at 12:22 am -      #442

    “These “baby” World Devastators are very specifically eating the ground, air, and water. So you have a point.. but what about the other components? They’re producing droid tie fighters, with sensitive and complex computer brains.”

    If World Devastators can get taken out by starfighters, can be hacked by computer viruses, and move so mammothly slowly, I fail to see how they are a threat in the first place. The only reason they were a valid threat in IoM vs GE was the slow speed of Warp travel. Since that is largely mitigated via ST FTL drives, targeted strikes on WDs can be used to destroy them before they can manufacture anything significant.

  43. GMoney November 23, 2014 at 12:28 am -      #443

    “If World Devastators can get taken out by starfighters, can be hacked by computer viruses, and move so mammothly slowly, I fail to see how they are a threat in the first place. The only reason they were a valid threat in IoM vs GE was the slow speed of Warp travel. Since that is largely mitigated via ST FTL drives, targeted strikes on WDs can be used to destroy them before they can manufacture anything significant.”

    The ones that were destroyed were fresh off the assembly line. World Devastators get more durable and more deadly the more they absorb. And they didn’t get shut down by a virus they got shut down by the specific codes that Luke stole from Palpatine. And while destroying them even in their mid stages is possible with ST levels of firepower (high Gigatons-mid Teratons right?) who says the Devastators won’t have a defense fleet until they get big enough to fend for themselves? Not to mention that even if you blow them all up, more can be built.

  44. Neon Lord November 23, 2014 at 12:32 am -      #444

    “You still haven’t shown how the Devastators obtained elements unique to certain places.”

    Onboard storage from elsewhere is the most likely answer as they only require trace amounts of them. Either that or a plot hole. Both are more reasonable than baseless extrapolation they can just magically create new elements.

    “It also takes the energy of multiple stars to fire the Death Star’s laser so that isn’t out of the question. ”

    And you are going to fit that reactor in a World Devastator how?

    ” Also, this is Sci-Fi, are you really expecting it to follow the laws of science?”

    We have to assume so unless it is blatantly breaking them. Which it is not in this case since there are more reasonable explanations. And the fact there is no proof that World Devastators can produce phrik.

  45. GMoney November 23, 2014 at 12:39 am -      #445

    “Onboard storage from elsewhere is the most likely answer as they only require trace amounts of them. Either that or a plot hole. Both are more reasonable than baseless extrapolation they can just magically create new elements.”

    So baseless speculation is more reasonable than a direct quote?

  46. Neon Lord November 23, 2014 at 12:39 am -      #446

    “World Devastators get more durable and more deadly the more they absorb. ”

    We don’t know how long this takes. And it has to distribute its resources between upgrading and production.

    ” And they didn’t get shut down by a virus they got shut down by the specific codes that Luke stole from Palpatine. ”

    According to the wiki, the codes shut them down, but not their internal factories. Then R2 created a new code (virus) that made them fly into each other. WDs have droid brains, so they are hardly immune to digital assault anyway.

    “who says the Devastators won’t have a defense fleet until they get big enough to fend for themselves? ”

    Again, we don’t know how long it takes for that to happen.

    “Not to mention that even if you blow them all up, more can be built.”

    And how long will that take?

  47. Neon Lord November 23, 2014 at 12:41 am -      #447

    “So baseless speculation is more reasonable than a direct quote?”

    Ordinary logic is more reasonable than a quote that doesn’t support your argument.

  48. Neon Lord November 23, 2014 at 12:55 am -      #448

    “Even as this second Death Star was being
    assembled, Umak Leth, Chief Engineer to the
    Emperor, came to his master with a new design
    for a molecular furnace that could break down the
    physical structure of matter. There had been devices
    of this type for years, on Coruscant in particular.
    On this ancient world, these machines razed
    older buildings, recycled the crumbling masonry
    and transparisteel, and left gleaming new spires
    in their places. The technology had also been incorporated
    into mining droids for many centuries.
    Leth’s model was different. It had a much more sophisticated
    way of magnetically separating matter
    into constituent elements, then shaping them with
    sophisticated force beams and automata”

    Another quote that disproves a World Devastator’s potential to create new elements.

  49. GMoney November 23, 2014 at 1:05 am -      #449

    “According to the wiki, the codes shut them down, but not their internal factories. Then R2 created a new code (virus) that made them fly into each other. WDs have droid brains, so they are hardly immune to digital assault anyway.”

    They were shut down by R2 making a virus with the data from the codes.

    “And how long will that take?”

    Assuming that it only took 2 years for Palpatine to get a body back 5 years at max.

    “Ordinary logic is more reasonable than a quote that doesn’t support your argument.”

    starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Molecular_furnace
    Right there it states that molecular furnaces create new substances. A substance is any matter that has specific composition and properties.
    www.chemicool.com/definition/substance.html

  50. Aelfinn November 23, 2014 at 2:50 am -      #450

    The problem with the assertion that “spaceships can be made out of Phrik” is that, honestly, we don’t know if they can. There could be some quality of it that makes it incredibly difficult to use on a large scale. For example, what if it conducts heat really well? So well, in fact, that if you hit it with a turbolaser, all that heat gets directed into whatever it contacts? “Great job, guys, the hull survived the attack, but now the inside of the ship is on fire.”

    That’s just an example, and not necessarily true, but I hope it illustrates my point: we don’t know what limitations a certain material has when scaled up UNTIL it is scaled up, which we have not seen in Star Wars yet, and to suggest otherwise is nothing but supposition.
    =
    To answer the question of Borg and 8472 numbers: The Borg have millions of ships, 8472 was kicking there butts, and we see hundreds of 8472 ships exiting a singularity at one point. There aren’t hard-and-fast numbers for them, but they’re respectable.
    =
    Here’s how the Team wins, and it isn’t too difficult:
    1. Give the Borg pretty much all the 40K and Halo Tech. Their Hive Mind, semi-self-repairing ships, and ability to assimilate will allow them to implement this Tech Collective-Wide fairly quickly.
    2. Send Borg cubes protected by Void shields and using Nova Cannons through the Wormhole.
    3. Investigate the Galaxy using Slipspace and Transwarp (which is faster than Warp by a large margin).
    4. Adapt to Star Wars weapons and shields and assimilate their Hyperspace drives and generals’ knowledge.
    5. Use Multi-Kinetic Neutronic Mines to assimilate entire star systems and, when need-be, open singularities to allow Species 8472 to destroy planets.
    =
    Star Wars simply cannot produce the kind of firepower needed to get through that much shielding, and they don’t have defenses against the Borg’s ability to take their tech. The speed and industry advantage that serves them well when fighting 40K on its own is not great enough to make a difference here, and they will lose those advantages quickly enough as systems and technologies are assimilated and/or outright destroyed.
    =
    =
    Also, hypothetical side-note: what happens when the Borg, Flood, and Tyranids combine? What happens when the Borg bomb a planet with nanoprobes, those nanoprobes transform their targets into Flood forms, and the Flood forms eventually grow into Bio-Titans? This combination will have the knowledge-spreading ability of the Borg, the sheer speed of the Flood, and the militaristic might of the Tyranid ground forces. The Bio-Titans will release Flood spores and be augmented with Borg cybernetics. They will have adaptive shielding, excessive speed and strength, and the ability to infest or assimilate anything they get near.

  51. Neon Lord November 23, 2014 at 2:56 am -      #451

    “They were shut down by R2 making a virus with the data from the codes.”

    And then R2 made a virus that made all the WDs fly into each other.

    “Right there it states that molecular furnaces create new substances. A substance is any matter that has specific composition and properties.”

    So you’re saying wiki paraphrasing is a more valid source than the actual sourcebook? Now you’re grasping at straws.

  52. OberHerr November 23, 2014 at 3:14 am -      #452

    “Also, hypothetical side-note: what happens when the Borg, Flood, and Tyranids combine? What happens when the Borg bomb a planet with nanoprobes, those nanoprobes transform their targets into Flood forms, and the Flood forms eventually grow into Bio-Titans? This combination will have the knowledge-spreading ability of the Borg, the sheer speed of the Flood, and the militaristic might of the Tyranid ground forces. The Bio-Titans will release Flood spores and be augmented with Borg cybernetics. They will have adaptive shielding, excessive speed and strength, and the ability to infest or assimilate anything they get near.”

    cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/56488521.jpg

  53. FezzesRCool11 November 23, 2014 at 4:42 am -      #453

    @Neon Lord
    Sorry, I was under a false impression, memory of reading it must have faded.

    “we see hundreds of 8472 ships exiting a singularity at one point”

    What episode was that, it sounds like one I haven’t watched. I don’t doubt your source, I’m just curious.

    So, all in all, it seems like I am dropping the ball all over the place. I guess relying on my memory is NOT a good idea.

    @OberHerr
    Yeah, pretty much, don’t forget that adaption plus ridiculous numbers equals you kill five or six and then you have a ridiculous horde minus less than a drop in the ocean who are now immune or resistant to your weapons.Also, since a quick google search couldn’t find it, how do the Borg adapt to weapons, as in is it a thing that could only be used with Borg, or could it be shared with others to create ridiculous ground and space forces power? We have spoken of the Borg adapting everything into their ships, but what if this could happen? Could be big.

  54. Darth Bombad November 23, 2014 at 6:46 am -      #454

    Star Wars simply cannot produce the kind of firepower needed to get through that much shielding,

    Sure they can just focus the Starforges and WD’s on building these.

    img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111224043011/starwars/images/b/be/Strang_Conqueror.jpg

    starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Conqueror_(superlaser)

    And if phrik is in doubt (for…some reason) then just make Beskar, its
    just about as strong and is confirmed that its used in starships.

  55. Sauroposeidon November 23, 2014 at 8:25 am -      #455

    “Do you even chemistry. Breaking chemical bonds does not mean ripping atoms apart. Chemical bonds binds atoms together to form molecules. You can rearrange any type of atom to form molecular structures as much as you like, but you won’t be getting any new types of atoms out of it.”

    I am honestly about done with you. You are being willfully ignorant. This requires ripping apart the subatomic particles of things like electrons in order to re-arrange them how you see fit.

    It’s in their canon ability to rip matter apart. You’re simply fucking ignoring it at this point because you don’t like what it does and frankly I’m finished with you. You’re as bad as kitten lord. I gave you fucking quotes and you turn around and you say “No. The wording is bad. That means it can’t actually do that.”

    Then you say it does things which I have not yet seen it stated to do. Namely, that it somehow carries resources with it that it can’t obtain, despite the fact that the stated purpose of the vehicle is that it does not run out of resources to keep making an army.

    “We don’t know how long this takes. And it has to distribute its resources between upgrading and production.”

    Presumably weeks, I think, when they’re babies. While still unborn I think they stay in their mothers or shipyards for an extended period, I forget which, until fully constructed. No known upper limit exists for them. As they get bigger they get faster at what they do so it’s difficult to know how dangerous the fleet would be after two months prep, as they were never just allowed to gorge for two months straight with no interruption.

    “Another quote that disproves a World Devastator’s potential to create new elements.”

    More of your word twisting, Kitten Lord. You keep taking things too literally with authors who don’t mean it. Like 40kers who want their hand held plasma weapons to actually be shooting suns.

    “For example, what if it conducts heat really well?”

    It doesn’t. The most logical reason is the empire relies on super high quality super weapons and en masse low quality units beneath them. There is no middle tier so they don’t often make super powerful fighters, and when the do they’re still economy minded. They did eventually make a super armored fighter sized vehicle, the sun crusher, but it used a material superior to phrik. Which I have also suggested using. No one so far has taken issue with Quantum armor fighters spitting planet cracking missiles all over the place.

    “Star Wars simply cannot produce the kind of firepower”

    LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

    Aelfin. Come on.Seriously. They EASILY have that when their tech is properly applied, they vastly over power all three in a heart beat.

    The problem is time travel. Fore knowledge is vastly important and doesn’t just cinch it for team two, it gives them a land slide victory.

  56. Tyran November 23, 2014 at 12:49 pm -      #456

    Also, hypothetical side-note: what happens when the Borg, Flood, and Tyranids combine? What happens when the Borg bomb a planet with nanoprobes, those nanoprobes transform their targets into Flood forms, and the Flood forms eventually grow into Bio-Titans? This combination will have the knowledge-spreading ability of the Borg, the sheer speed of the Flood, and the militaristic might of the Tyranid ground forces. The Bio-Titans will release Flood spores and be augmented with Borg cybernetics. They will have adaptive shielding, excessive speed and strength, and the ability to infest or assimilate anything they get near.

    Merging the Flood with the the Tyranids and the Borgs (and lets throw Orks as well) will give the Flood enough biomass to jump to the Keymind levels, which means they can use Neural Psychics, which mean Neural Constructs rape anything on the way.

  57. GMoney November 23, 2014 at 3:36 pm -      #457

    “Merging the Flood with the the Tyranids and the Borgs (and lets throw Orks as well) will give the Flood enough biomass to jump to the Keymind levels, which means they can use Neural Psychics, which mean Neural Constructs rape anything on the way.”

    Didn’t the Flood lose Neural Physics when the Halos were fired? And even then I don’t think it’s in any of those faction’s CIS to do that.

  58. Tyran November 23, 2014 at 3:57 pm -      #458

    Didn’t the Flood lose Neural Physics when the Halos were fired? And even then I don’t think it’s in any of those faction’s CIS to do that.

    The Flood, as a Precursor, has access to the knowledge about technology way beyond the Forerunner’s wildest dreams, they only need the processing power of Keyminds.
    And both the Borg and the Tyranids have a lot of processing power in their respective Hive Minds.

  59. Darth Bombad November 23, 2014 at 8:36 pm -      #459

    You’re as bad as kitten lord.
    Whoa! that’s the harshest insult imaginable.

    @Tyran
    They wouldn’t have much, since all Neural Physics structures and technology
    were destroyed by the HALO array, besides their rather unquantifiable.
    Since we know pretty much nothing about them or how they are created.

  60. the_man_with The_Answers November 23, 2014 at 9:37 pm -      #460

    “There is no favorable.There is only balanced.”

    Favorable as in “conducive to agriculture/sapient life”

    “The number of species to go extinct naturally would be miniscule in the tiny slice of time we’re using.”

    How do we define a time constraint on composite then?

    “Except Star Wars isn’t getting 3 billion years. You’re extending composite to essentially comedic lengths for the sake of bloating an argument which already holds no water.”

    The “argument” is mocking the failings of “composite” if you don’t have any official rules on it. You need arbitrary constraints to make it work. Composite doesn’t work unless you go in a define rather specifically how things are going to work. Otherwise you end up with ecological disasters, overlapping infrastructure, and a starving population.

    “It doesn’t matter where they’re located.”

    It matters a lot. If it’s located on “random ass planet 9″ then it’s going to be a lot more vulnerable than if it’s located on say, Coruscant.

    Logistics, locations, politics, production, and what not are all extremely important to figuring out who wins, not just who has the highest high end feat. All of which get fucked up without going in and setting up some clear and arbitrary restraints on “composite”

    “Seriously? You’re arguing that the composite Star Wars with composite forces, composite knowledge and composite RESOURCES LIKE FOOD, can’t manage to feed themselves?
    Or that the assembled forces will make the planet shit itself and die? That’s… sad.”

    It’s not a question of how much they have, it’s how is it all going to ft together. Where new infrastructure goes. Where do overlapping farm and resource areas go? Do planets get massive deposits of “composite” resources? These are all important things when you realize war boils down to a lot more than high end yields.

    ” I don’t think it falls under the composite rule anyway because the plant life isn’t a combatant”

    So, by that, Star Wars only gets combat related things? So no civilians. No extra farm animals. Plant life is literally essential for Star Wars. If they didn’t get that everything would collapse because you just wiped out the basic block of any intelligent lifeform’s food chain.

    ” UNSC’s are by far the worst.
    even with their new “borrowed” Forerunner and covenant tech.”

    Are you sure? Even vehicles as small or smaller then Pelicans are capable of covering vast amounts of distances with slipspace in a few hours.
    -

  61. Tyran November 23, 2014 at 10:39 pm -      #461

    @Darth Bombad
    True, Neural Physics are unquantifiable.

  62. Aelfinn November 23, 2014 at 11:57 pm -      #462

    “What episode was that, it sounds like one I haven’t watched. I don’t doubt your source, I’m just curious.”

    Scorpion 1 or 2. Here’s the transcript:
    www.chakoteya.net/voyager/321.htm
    =
    “Sure they can just focus the Starforges and WD’s on building these.”

    Alright, see, this is where I’m going to ask for more proof than a wiki on this. This was a prototype, right? Never made again? Hell, this was from a trading card game so even for the old EU it wasn’t high on the canon list. It doesn’t make sense with the rest of Star Wars canon, that’s for sure. Why have a power generator the size of a moon? Why don’t Star Destroyer’s blow up planets when they are destroyed? Furthermore, how long does it take to charge up? Does it need to use ALL of its power? Can it even raise shields while it charges the super-laser, let alone fire regular turbolasers? If this has to sit still for 30 minutes while charging, it’s not going to last long against…any sustained fire, really.
    =
    “It doesn’t. ”

    That was just an example, Sauro. I was using it to illustrate the point that there might be some characteristic of Phrik we don’t know about that prevents large starships from being made of it.
    =
    “No one so far has taken issue with Quantum armor fighters spitting planet cracking missiles all over the place.”

    I do. As far as Google is telling me, there’s like one kinda-quote about missiles cracking planets and no actual scene where we see it happen.
    =
    “Aelfin. Come on.Seriously. They EASILY have that when their tech is properly applied, they vastly over power all three in a heart beat.”

    …Uhhhhh, what? This is just blatantly incorrect. Unless you’re talking about the superweapons…Star Wars only overpowers Halo, and not by a large margin. It’s even-to-lower than Trek, and 40K’s weapons and shields blow Star Wars’ out of the water.

    If we’re getting into Superweapons, why don’t we look into a few Star Trek superweapons?

    There are the Trilithium missiles, which cause Stars to implode and destroy the entire solar system they’re in.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz3CYcjdSaI
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmIaHAtabSU

    There is the Genesis device, which can effectively life-wipe a planet in an instant.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsr-XtuKuSw
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7WlyuI7xGI
    “McCOY: But, dear Lord, do you think we’re intelligent enough to… Suppose, what if this thing were used where life already exists?
    SPOCK: It would destroy such life in favour of its new matrix.
    McCOY: It’s new matrix? …Do you have you any idea what you’re saying?
    SPOCK: I was not attempting to evaluate its moral implications, Doctor. As a matter of cosmic history, it has always been easier to destroy than to create.
    McCOY: Not anymore! Now we can do both at the same time! According to myth, the Earth was created in six days. Now, watch out! Here comes Genesis, we’ll do it for you in six minutes.”
    www.chakoteya.net/movies/movie2.html

    Not to mention the Red Matter that we saw in the new Star Trek movies can make a black hole pretty much anywhere
    =
    =
    Also, Holy Shit. I just realized something. The Genesis Device can create living matter from non-living matter, and it can do this in a few minutes to an hour. For example, it took all of one funeral for the planet to be covered in rain-forest by the time Spock’s body was launched to its surface. This could be used to turn non-living planets into PURE fuel for the Flood and Tyranids. Entire planets could be offered up at a moment’s notice to keep the Flood and Tyranid war machines going. FURTHERMORE, once all the life has been converted into Flood/Tyranid biomass, all you need to do is hit the same planet AGAIN. A Biosphere is actually a very small thing when compared to a planet, but this process could convert the entire mass of a planet into pure biomass, one layer at a time.

  63. Shgon Dunstan November 24, 2014 at 1:18 am -      #463

    @the_man_with The_Answers

    And don’t forget composite illnesses and the like. :lol:

    I’ll likely try catching up with the thead when I’ve got the time, maybe over the holiday.

  64. the_man_with The_Answers November 24, 2014 at 12:25 pm -      #464

    If the Flood got to use the Genesis Device, they would be nigh unstoppable. You’d hit the point of Keyminds faster than ever, and before you know it 95% of Star Wars’ automated fighting units will subside to the logic plague and the Flood will likely begin messing with neural physics again.

    I mean, the Flood would thrive in and potentially wipe out Star Wars on its own, let alone with the Genesis device fueling them perpetually.

    It’s just a matter of finding the Flood to use. I imagine significant Flood presence remains in stasis on Installation-01, 02, and 06 (Which I’m not sure have even been discovered yet by UNSC or Covenant forces), 03 likely as well, but it was relocated by its monitor (which means it could be brought back).

    Both the Elites and the UNSC do know of the location or 07, which even to them is believed to have, despite “containment efforts,” a significant Flood presence within the ring. So there’s that.

  65. Tyran November 24, 2014 at 1:32 pm -      #465

    The UNSC and the Covenant have the Janus key, which gives them the location and control of any remaining Forerunner assets.

  66. GMoney November 24, 2014 at 5:16 pm -      #466

    “If the Flood got to use the Genesis Device, they would be nigh unstoppable. You’d hit the point of Keyminds faster than ever, and before you know it 95% of Star Wars’ automated fighting units will subside to the logic plague and the Flood will likely begin messing with neural physics again.”

    I’m not sure The Logic Plague would be effective. The Plague, as I understand it, works by infecting AI through the Domain and convincing them to work for the Flood and is transmitted electronically via domain/internet. The thing is, all the AI in Star Wars is in droid form, tied to a physical body without connection to an internet form of medium. Machines and the Holonet have no AI and are not connected to AI. The only way for the Logic Plague to work would be to physically capture droid and preform the logic plague physically like the Last Precursor did with Mendicant Bias, which took several decades. And correct me if I’m wrong but all Neural Physics does is allow the Flood to control Precursor Neural Machines, which were all destroyed by the Halos, so I’m not sure it will help much.

    “So, by that, Star Wars only gets combat related things? So no civilians. No extra farm animals. Plant life is literally essential for Star Wars. If they didn’t get that everything would collapse because you just wiped out the basic block of any intelligent lifeform’s food chain.”

    No. But Star Wars will fight at Maximum efficiency according to the rules and something like that would inhibit Star Wars, and prevent them from fighting at Maximum Efficency and would be removed.

    “I do. As far as Google is telling me, there’s like one kinda-quote about missiles cracking planets and no actual scene where we see it happen.”

    Why do we need to it happen? We are told several times in canon that they destroy worlds what is there to question?

    “…Uhhhhh, what? This is just blatantly incorrect. Unless you’re talking about the superweapons…Star Wars only overpowers Halo, and not by a large margin. It’s even-to-lower than Trek, and 40K’s weapons and shields blow Star Wars’ out of the water.”

    Halo weapons are high kiloton/low megaton, Star Wars weapons are high megaton/low-mid Gigaton, so that is a pretty big margin. Trek firepower is so far across the board that I honestly don’t know what their firepower is. On one hand we have an entire fleet being incapable of destroying an asteroid and on the other hand we have 30% of a planet’s mantle destroyed in a few shots. Is their any kind of average firepower for Trek? And since when do 40k’s weapons blow SW weapons out of the water? The Imperium, who has the second most powerful navy, needs specialized weapons to preform Exterminatus, Star Destroyers can do it with their basic weaponry. The only 40k race I can think of with firepower above the GE are the Necrons and even then not by a huge amount.

    “Not to mention the Red Matter that we saw in the new Star Trek movies can make a black hole pretty much anywhere”

    I thought the new movies were non-canon to the main universe?

    “I mean, the Flood would thrive in and potentially wipe out Star Wars on its own, let alone with the Genesis device fueling them perpetually.”

    Star Wars already has a Flood-like entity and it isn’t a major threat. While the Flood are quite potent I don’t see them wiping Star Wars, especially after they figure out how the flood operate.

    “Both the Elites and the UNSC do know of the location or 07, which even to them is believed to have, despite “containment efforts,” a significant Flood presence within the ring. So there’s that.”

    Wouldn’t the flood on Installation 07 have been destroyed when the Halos fired? I know they controlled 07 before the Halos were fired but I don’t think they survived the firing.

    “The UNSC and the Covenant have the Janus key, which gives them the location and control of any remaining Forerunner assets.”

    How much Forerunner tech besides the Rings and The Shield Worlds are left?



    Question for the Star Trek buffs: how fast do the Borg make ships and How durable are Species 8472’s ships?

  67. Aelfinn November 24, 2014 at 7:07 pm -      #467

    “Why do we need to it happen? We are told several times in canon that they destroy worlds what is there to question?”

    The fact that there is only one quote kinda-referencing it: “I saw beings by the billions undone in cruel and careless instants – by blasters and swords and teeth and fists. I saw fields and forests scoured into ash by orbital bombardments. I saw planetary cores cracked by flights of missiles.”

    We’re going to need to know just how viable this method is on a consistent basis, and this one quote doesn’t offer anything.
    =
    “Star Wars weapons are high megaton/low-mid Gigaton, so that is a pretty big margin. Trek firepower is so far across the board that I honestly don’t know what their firepower is.”

    Star Wars is in the same boat as Star Trek, as we see Turbolasers launched in-atmosphere in The Clone Wars, but they don’t destroy the country beneath them.
    =
    “And since when do 40k’s weapons blow SW weapons out of the water? The Imperium, who has the second most powerful navy, needs specialized weapons to preform Exterminatus, Star Destroyers can do it with their basic weaponry.”

    Nova Cannons fire projectiles with Petatons worth of energy, and their Torpedoes are in the Teratons. If you’re talking about Base Delta Zero, we never really get a time-frame on that procedure, and we never see it happen. It’s pretty much comparable to Star Trek’s General Order 24, which allows for one ship to life-wipe a planet. We’re given, I believe, a time-frame of a few hours for this to be accomplished, but we never actually see it.
    =
    “I thought the new movies were non-canon to the main universe?”

    They are, but the Red Matter came from the main universe.
    =
    “how fast do the Borg make ships”

    A Time-frame is never really given. They can repair very extensive damage in a few minutes-to-an-hour, and they can wrest control and assimilate a new ship in a few days even with heavy, experienced-with-Borg resistance.
    =
    “How durable are Species 8472’s ships?”

    They regularly tank Borg weaponry, so…pretty durable, at least for Star Trek. It’s not like we see them stand in front of a planet-busting-attack or anything.

  68. pimpmage November 24, 2014 at 7:19 pm -      #468

    “needs specialized weapons to preform Exterminatus”

    Nope, only the larger ship classes carry bombarment cannons or nova cannons. The standard loadout for every 40k ship are lances. Those things vaporize oceans away. There is even a video showing a standard fleet preforming the duty. I am sure you have seen it before.

  69. Friendlysociopath November 24, 2014 at 7:25 pm -      #469

    Pretty sure the WH40K, Star Trek, Halo team takes this. Ideally, any side can win if they just sit on the other side of the death-wormhole and wait for the enemy. But assuming both sides actually try to win- I don’t see Star Wars fighting off all 3 of them, even composite.

  70. Tyran November 24, 2014 at 7:26 pm -      #470

    I’m not sure The Logic Plague would be effective. The Plague, as I understand it, works by infecting AI through the Domain and convincing them to work for the Flood and is transmitted electronically via domain/internet. The thing is, all the AI in Star Wars is in droid form, tied to a physical body without connection to an internet form of medium. Machines and the Holonet have no AI and are not connected to AI. The only way for the Logic Plague to work would be to physically capture droid and preform the logic plague physically like the Last Precursor did with Mendicant Bias, which took several decades. And correct me if I’m wrong but all Neural Physics does is allow the Flood to control Precursor Neural Machines, which were all destroyed by the Halos, so I’m not sure it will help much.

    The Logic plague can transmit trough many different means, including sound. Essentially, if it can transmit information, then it can transmit the Logic Plague (as the Logic Plague seems to be, for the lack of a better term, viral information).

    Neural Physics refers to Precursors technology, it includes the Neural Constructs like the Star Roads, the Logic Plague and their FTL, which is intergalactic. The creation of new Neural Constructs is possible (after all they build them in the first place), but we lack enough information to be know the details, like the resources and time needed to built such structures.

    At the very least, the Flood has access to knowledge that would eventually let them upgrade their team technology even beyond the Forerunner technology, although such action will take time.

  71. Neon Lord November 24, 2014 at 7:38 pm -      #471

    “You are being willfully ignorant.”

    How ironic. This is basic chemistry we are talking about here. It isn’t hard to understand.

    “This requires ripping apart the subatomic particles of things like electrons in order to re-arrange them how you see fit.”

    Technically no, it involves the breaking down of chemical bonds between atoms. Covalent, ionic, and metallic bonds can all be broken down without any interaction with the nucleus.

    ““No. The wording is bad. That means it can’t actually do that.”

    No, I am saying you don’t understand the wording correctly. In now way does ‘breaking down into constituent elements’ mean making new elements. You can’t break down water into durasteel metals.

    “Then you say it does things which I have not yet seen it stated to do.”

    Which are more likely than the things you are saying it does when it does not say it does.

    Considering it is a mining platform however, the most likely explanation is that it actually mines its resources wherever it is. The limited availability of certain metals is an overlook plot hole by the writers, or simply incomplete information.

    “More of your word twisting, Kitten Lord. You keep taking things too literally with authors who don’t mean it.”

    And you would know what the authors mean how? I’m not the one exaggerating a capability into something not stated in any source. You are.

  72. Darth Bombad November 24, 2014 at 7:50 pm -      #472

    @Aelfinn
    O.k. then they stil have these, starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Eclipse-class_dreadnought

    Can’t planet bust but it can still break planetary shields and fry the continent beyond.
    More than enough to destroy any 40k, HALO or Trek ship that they encounter.

  73. pimpmage November 24, 2014 at 8:14 pm -      #473

    “Can’t planet bust but it can still break planetary shields and fry the continent beyond.”

    Not really, planet based void shields have been shown to be able to resist months of pounding from teraton level weaponry. Sure the planet around it is vulnerable, but you cannot break their ground based void shields. Hell, 40k cannot break their own planet void shields.

  74. Darth Bombad November 24, 2014 at 8:45 pm -      #474

    and we never see it happen.
    Really?



    That was Star Destroyer thousands of years before the current era.

  75. OberHerr November 24, 2014 at 8:57 pm -      #475

    Life wiping a planet is child’s play for all these factions. Covie’s accomplish it faster and with fewer ships.

    Also, on the Eclipse…..

    starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Eclipse-class_dreadnought

    There were two made. And they took anywhere from decades to years to make……….and don’t pull that “The WD or Star Forge can make them!” Said Star Forge has NEVER been shown to make anything other than shoddy old SW ships and such. And WD haven’t even been shown to make more than fights, maybe Star Destroyers.

  76. Neon Lord November 24, 2014 at 9:57 pm -      #476

    “That was Star Destroyer thousands of years before the current era”

    Not only is that not life-wiping, it also shows a low-end for turbo-lasers as only taking out chunks of skyscrapers.

  77. KASHMIRE777 November 24, 2014 at 10:12 pm -      #477

    @neon lord
    It killed everybody on the planet. The causalities were high billions. The planet afterwards was a toxic wasteland. That is life wiping.

  78. GMoney November 24, 2014 at 10:47 pm -      #478

    “We’re going to need to know just how viable this method is on a consistent basis, and this one quote doesn’t offer anything.”

    In the Imperial Agent campaign in The Old Republic MMO you have to defuse a Baradium Bomb that is stated by multiple people will blow up the planet. I can get a source if you want it.

    “Nova Cannons fire projectiles with Petatons worth of energy, and their Torpedoes are in the Teratons. If you’re talking about Base Delta Zero, we never really get a time-frame on that procedure, and we never see it happen. It’s pretty much comparable to Star Trek’s General Order 24, which allows for one ship to life-wipe a planet. We’re given, I believe, a time-frame of a few hours for this to be accomplished, but we never actually see it.”

    Nova Cannons are the most powerful weapon in the a Imperial Navy, only mounted on Battleships and will 1-shot anything they hit beyond a Gloriana-class Capital Ship (the biggest and most powerful class of ship in the Imperial Navy, only the Primarchs got to command them) they are also incredibly inaccurate and only have a reliable chance of hitting planetoids. The charge on the cannons also dosent ignite until the shot is 20,000+ Km out, meaning it is useless for close range fighting. And what are the calcs for Torpedoes being in the Teratons? Even then, this is a case where the size and bulk of 40k’s ships is actually disadvantageous. Normally torpedoes are to small to target for a 40k ship, the average of which are 2km long but that is a much smaller problem for Star Destroyers, who are much more maneuverable than most 40k vessels. And Star Wars does have something akin to Nova Cannons in the Proton Beam Cannon, which can mounted on Star Destroyers. As for Base Delta Zero, I believe it takes a fleet of 5-10 ships hours to a day to complete the operation

    “Nope, only the larger ship classes carry bombarment cannons or nova cannons. The standard loadout for every 40k ship are lances. Those things vaporize oceans away. There is even a video showing a standard fleet preforming the duty. I am sure you have seen it before.”

    You know the shell in that video is a stage 1 Cyclone Torpedo right? They bombed Typhon Primaris with conventional weaponry but they need a Cyclone to fully life wipe the planet, as seen in the video.

    “Not really, planet based void shields have been shown to be able to resist months of pounding from teraton level weaponry. Sure the planet around it is vulnerable, but you cannot break their ground based void shields.”

    But 40k dosent have planetary void shielding, only city level shielding and The Imperium dosent have Teratons in any novel I’ve read. The biggest showing I’ve ever seen was a fleet destroying an unshielded Hive City with a full salvo. And even if they do, they are still outnumbered by The Galactic Empire’s Fleet alone.

    “Hell, 40k cannot break their own planet void shields.”

    Neither can Star Wars break their own either.

    “There were two made. And they took anywhere from decades to years to make……….and don’t pull that “The WD or Star Forge can make them!” Said Star Forge has NEVER been shown to make anything other than shoddy old SW ships and such. And WD haven’t even been shown to make more than fights, maybe Star Destroyers.”

    While they cannot make Super-Star Destroyers they can make basic star destroyers which can be armed with planechangas, an old planet busting weapon that was scrapped after the invention of planetary shields. But because none of the enemy factions have planetary shields (though Trek might, idk) they will find use again.

    “Pretty sure the WH40K, Star Trek, Halo team takes this. Ideally, any side can win if they just sit on the other side of the death-wormhole and wait for the enemy. But assuming both sides actually try to win- I don’t see Star Wars fighting off all 3 of them, even composite.”

    I’m almost inclined to agree, but I still want to know what the borg are capable of because as of right now team 2 is outnumbered. All of 40k combined has I believe around 3-4 million planets, Halo has I believe a couple thousand and Star Trek has I believe in the hundreds of Thousands and Star Wars has 1 billion. I was about to concede when I realized that the Forerunners aren’t in and SW is composite. But right now it isn’t conventional warfare, which is what we’ve been arguing for the past 2 pages but a more unorthodox method. In Star Wars their are several people with near-perfect to perfect precognition which combined with Infinity Waves could be used to take out key enemy planets and fleets early on (mostly Borg and Species 8472).

  79. KASHMIRE777 November 24, 2014 at 10:51 pm -      #479

    starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Orb_of_Passage
    Controls the flow of time

  80. pimpmage November 24, 2014 at 11:16 pm -      #480

    “You know the shell in that video is a stage 1 Cyclone Torpedo right?”

    Cyclonic torpedoes are only able to be launched from bombardment cannons. Those are only mounted on the largest ships like battle barges.

    “The biggest showing I’ve ever seen was a fleet destroying an unshielded Hive City with a full salvo.”

    In that one Blood angels HH novel, the blood angels fleet destroyed a planet death star style. Nothing was left but debris.

    “Neither can Star Wars break their own either.”

    Star wars calcs are like 1/1000 that of 40k. I think that means much more for the 40k shields than SW. If anything, that just shows how wimpy their ship weapons are.

    “All of 40k combined has I believe around 3-4 million planets”

    I have never actually seen a number anywhere. And I would like to keep it that way, not for the matches sake, but for the authors. They have a galactic playground with limitless planets to have destroyed. Games workshop would let the number of planets be known.

    “In Star Wars their are several people with near-perfect to perfect precognition which combined with Infinity Waves could be used to take out key enemy planets and fleets early on (mostly Borg and Species 8472).”

    40k has an immortal time traveler. This allows for nigh infinite prep. He could prep every single soul on team 2. If someone misses a shot from any kind of weapon, he could go back and fix the outcome. Any strategies SW would employ is completely useless in the face of batman style prep. It is like Team 1 is fighting 3 galaxies worth of batmen.

  81. GMoney November 25, 2014 at 12:02 am -      #481

    “Cyclonic torpedoes are only able to be launched from bombardment cannons. Those are only mounted on the largest ships like battle barges.”

    No, a bombardment cannon is just a really big macro cannon. Cyclone Torpedoes can be mounted on any Cruiser+ ship.

    “In that one Blood angels HH novel, the blood angels fleet destroyed a planet death star style. Nothing was left but debris.”

    That was an entire legion fleet. And they used Exterminatus weaponry to do that. I believe Stage 2 Cyclone Torpedoes are directly referenced but I’d have to check.

    “Star wars calcs are like 1/1000 that of 40k. I think that means much more for the 40k shields than SW. If anything, that just shows how wimpy their ship weapons are.”

    Theatre Void Shields have gone down to heavy Orbital Bombardment. SW planetary shields have to have a specialized weapon like the Death Star to take down.

    “I have never actually seen a number anywhere. And I would like to keep it that way, not for the matches sake, but for the authors. They have a galactic playground with limitless planets to have destroyed. Games workshop would let the number of planets be known.”

    The Imperium has around 1 million planets in canon, including Death Worlds, Feudal Worlds, and all the other types of low tech planets. The Necrons also have around 1 million planets but how many of these are Imperial Planets is unknown. And that was more of a high end estimate. My conservative estimate puts 40k at around 2 million.

    “40k has an immortal time traveler. This allows for nigh infinite prep. He could prep every single soul on team 2. If someone misses a shot from any kind of weapon, he could go back and fix the outcome. Any strategies SW would employ is completely useless in the face of batman style prep. It is like Team 1 is fighting 3 galaxies worth of batmen.”

    But Orikan is only 1 being. And when he goes back in time he stays back in time. But a couple years isn’t that long for a Necron. Even if he devised the most efficient way to transmit information it would most likely be things like enemy fleet movements and planet locations but not on the level you speak of. And wouldn’t perfect Precog>time travel? If Orikan time travels back to give important data, The Ones and the Oracle will foresee it and correct the mistake/change the fleet movements.

  82. Aelfinn November 25, 2014 at 12:19 am -      #482

    “That was Star Destroyer thousands of years before the current era.”

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M&spfreload=10
    We SEE, with our physical EYES, that this attack was destroying…part…of one city. The only explanation for why the casualty count was so high is that Taris had an exceedingly high population density. That, or the citizens of Taris just sat around with their thumbs up their asses waiting for Malak to get to them.
    =
    ” And what are the calcs for Torpedoes being in the Teratons? Even then, this is a case where the size and bulk of 40k’s ships is actually disadvantageous. Normally torpedoes are to small to target for a 40k ship, the average of which are 2km long but that is a much smaller problem for Star Destroyers, who are much more maneuverable than most 40k vessels.”

    I believe the thread “Imperator vs. Super Star Destroyer” has the calc. Also, saying Star Destroyers are maneuverable is…kind of a lie. In pretty much every scene with them, we see that all they really do is move in a straight line. That, or curve downward into the Death Star after an A-Wing crashed through the bridge.
    =
    ” but I still want to know what the borg are capable of because as of right now team 2 is outnumbered.”

    I thought I had made it relatively clear. They can assimilate entire solar systems at once, one Borg cube can smash through entire fleets of “normal” ships, they can beam aboard enemy ships and take their tech and knowledge, and they can adapt to almost any weapon you throw at them. Turbolasers will soon become nigh-useless against the Borg as their shields will simply prevent the weapon from hurting them, and it’s not like Star Wars can “change the frequency” of a Turbolaser like Trek does to their Phasers. The change of frequency is what allows Trek weapons to still have some small effect, as the Borg must adapt to the new frequency, but that’s just not do-able on the fly with Wars weaponry. The Borg have millions of ships, and it will take hundreds of Star Destroyers to even have a chance against a “fleet” of Borg cubes with numbers in the single digits. This would happen even without Void Shields and Nova Cannons, which would only compound the issue.
    =
    “In Star Wars their are several people with near-perfect to perfect precognition”

    Pre-cog gets messed with all the time in Star Wars. Also, who has perfect precog? I’m looking through everything I can in Wookiepedia, and all the people who were really good at pre-cog were either killed or betrayed.

  83. OberHerr November 25, 2014 at 12:21 am -      #483

    Does everyone else fail to read my posts of Star Trek and Halo having Time Dilation to the extreme, as in billions of years in seconds, and Star Trek having time travel.

  84. pimpmage November 25, 2014 at 12:23 am -      #484

    “But Orikan is only 1 being. And when he goes back in time he stays back in time. But a couple years isn’t that long for a Necron. Even if he devised the most efficient way to transmit information it would most likely be things like enemy fleet movements and planet locations but not on the level you speak of. And wouldn’t perfect Precog>time travel? If Orikan time travels back to give important data, The Ones and the Oracle will foresee it and correct the mistake/change the fleet movements.”

    Can these perfect precogs foresee events that will come to pass in a different universe? Also, as stated with that original Orikan quote; the randomness of the warp prevents perfect precog. Orikan himself divines the futures. Anything they attempt to divine in the 40k universe will end up in failure.

    Also, I have brought this up several times. Can halo’s ships go through the wormhole while in slipspace? What about 40k ships while in the warp? Also, what is stopping the warp dimension from flooding into the SW verse? This wormhole appears in realspace. But realspace is a mirror of the warp. There would be a wormhole inside the warp too.

    “Does everyone else fail to read my posts of Star Trek and Halo having Time Dilation to the extreme, as in billions of years in seconds, and Star Trek having time travel.”

    Alot of my posts get burried too bro. Just quote the post #.

  85. Darth Bombad November 25, 2014 at 12:53 am -      #485

    We SEE, with our physical EYES, that this attack was destroying…part…of one city.

    The entire planet is a city many miles high and deep just like Coruscant.
    The Old Republic shows that the entire planet was reduced to rubble.

    And source on 40k weapons being superior? besides the wank from old matches.

  86. FezzesRCool11 November 25, 2014 at 12:58 am -      #486

    @pimpmage
    You seem to have answered your own question about the Warp. Unless Slipspace is similar, we must assume that there is no way to get through in Slipspace, I believe. Unless, of course, I am making a blunder, which I apparently often do. Good point on the precog.

    @OberHerr
    I am reading them, at least. Also on Trek time travel, I recall in one of the episodes, I think it was something like ‘Trials and Tribble-ations’ where someone uses the Orb of Time to travel back in time, and he managed to control where he ended up, both in space and time. So it has been proven to be able to be controlled. It also moved a ship with it. Maybe Trek could use that, especially if the time travel from what I think was the future, is not allowed.

  87. the_man_with The_Answers November 25, 2014 at 2:57 am -      #487

    “I’m not sure The Logic Plague would be effective. The Plague, as I understand it, works by infecting AI through the Domain and convincing them to work for the Flood and is transmitted electronically via domain/internet. The thing is, all the AI in Star Wars is in droid form, tied to a physical body without connection to an internet form of medium. Machines and the Holonet have no AI and are not connected to AI. The only way for the Logic Plague to work would be to physically capture droid and preform the logic plague physically like the Last Precursor did with Mendicant Bias, which took several decades. And correct me if I’m wrong but all Neural Physics does is allow the Flood to control Precursor Neural Machines, which were all destroyed by the Halos, so I’m not sure it will help much.”

    That would be true if the logic plague wasn’t the sheer corruption of intelligence and knowledge, not just some computer virus.

    “No. But Star Wars will fight at Maximum efficiency according to the rules and something like that would inhibit Star Wars, and prevent them from fighting at Maximum Efficency and would be removed.”

    That’s literally nowhere in the rules. The only things about “maximum efficiency” are related to most recent incarnation that can still fight efficiently (And “current incarnation rules get swamped away with the condition of “composite”), the field of battle being neutral so both sides can fight efficiently, and power/equipment for the incarnation being brought as well. It says literally nothing on any sort of “composite” rules. Nothing about overlapping infrastructure. Nothing about wistfully wishing and composite problems away. And I’m saying all this because “composite” needs some arbitrary boundaries for it to work. Otherwise everything collapses. And these boundaries are intrinsic important factors to consider in galactic war.

    “Star Wars weapons are high megaton/low-mid Gigaton”

    Here we go again…

    “Trek firepower is so far across the board that I honestly don’t know what their firepower is. On one hand we have an entire fleet being incapable of destroying an asteroid and on the other hand we have 30% of a planet’s mantle destroyed in a few shots. Is their any kind of average firepower for Trek?”

    Pot calling the kettle black…

    “Star Wars already has a Flood-like entity and it isn’t a major threat. While the Flood are quite potent I don’t see them wiping Star Wars, especially after they figure out how the flood operate.”

    “Flood-like” as in not even remotely close to as intelligent, virulent, and dangerous. Do they hijack a planet’s atmosphere and biosphere within a day or two, against heavy resistance? No? Didn’t think so.

    “Wouldn’t the flood on Installation 07 have been destroyed when the Halos fired? I know they controlled 07 before the Halos were fired but I don’t think they survived the firing.”

    Things living on the ring are shielded from the effect. As clearly evident by all the life on 04, the Flood on 04, the life on 05, the Flood on 05, and so on.

    “How much Forerunner tech besides the Rings and The Shield Worlds are left?”

    How much more do they need? Shield worlds often contain Forerunner ships.

    “Really?”

    Lol really. My god you guys just keep proving more and more that you have zero idea what the energy levels you ascribe to your turbolasers really entails. Notice when it was firing what looked like dozens of shots over and over. If those were Gigatons you would have essentially wasted the life on the planet. If they were megatons you could’ve caused mass damage across the entire continent. If they were kilotons you still wold have seen massive devastation on a planetary scale. But all we saw were explosions on buildings that look like they are in the 1-10 ton range.
    Like, come on now.

    “The entire planet is a city many miles high and deep just like Coruscant.
    The Old Republic shows that the entire planet was reduced to rubble.”

    Then why don’t you show that? As opposed to single digit ton explosions (Which in no sense are something to be scoffed at, example: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAYVMXYYAp4)
    -

  88. Numinous One November 25, 2014 at 5:03 am -      #488

    A little late to this I suppose, digging deep trying to find things to help the underdog here.

    As far as the Flood are concerned they should be rather easily countered early on by electromagnetic torpedoes.
    The luminescent pale green substance contained in the torpedo was lethal to all other known forms of life. One cubic millimeter of it could destroy not only all life on a planet but all of the “organic substrate” from which any future life could come. It could thrive even in vacuum.

    It’s also said the affected areas require billions of years to recover, very thorough bioweapon.

    Does have any more information on the World Razer? All I’ve found is that it’s the “Destroyer of worlds”, “Eater of stars”, and that it can destroy the galaxy on release from its prison.

    For the superior shielding on the other side, the Meta-Crystal Phase Shifter and Null Cannons would be very handy.
    MCPS.
    The Metal Crystal Phase Shifter (MCPS) was a superweapon capable of altering the molecular structure of metallic substances.
    ….
    The sole purpose of the project was to create a weapon that would be able to penetrate the shields of a starship and damage its hull; once encountering the area of the phase shifter’s effect, the metal within the target’s hull would be turned into powder and thus be weakened greatly during the attack.
    While the MCPS did not dramatically turn an entire ship’s hull into powder, it did create many tiny cracks and weak spots throughout the hull, which was sufficient to make the vessel lose critical structural integrity and collapse on itself.


    Null Cannon.
    Null Cannons were a type of superweapon developed by the Galactic Republic by the time of the Cold War. It functioned by firing energy blasts that completely disabled enemy technology such as starships.
    As far as Null Cannons go, they would need to create more even with composite incarnation, MCPS on the other hand is already outfitted on pretty much every ship in a fleet.

    Cal-class Battleships, basically shoots asteroids. Planetary shields were created to end this threat, anything that doesn’t have that level of shielding is fair game.

    As for that video above, in that ships defense I’m fairly certain that was one of the default ships created by the Star Forge, ie hilariously outdated, a design 30-35,000yrs old.
    The Rakatan are in this match anyway so it should be easy enough to incorporate newer designs with their superior tech skills.

    That’ll be enough added for the time being, I’ll have a read through again and try to catch up.

  89. FezzesRCool11 November 25, 2014 at 6:10 am -      #489

    @NuminousOne
    How exactly does this MCPS penetrate the shields, so that we can know if they work on other galaxies shields and ships. How effective is the Null Cannon exactly? Does it overcome any sort of barrier Team 2 has? Cal-class doesn’t sound very effective at all, really. Firing asteroids is kind of weak in an open space battle, isn’t it. I know you could say that it would only be used to assault planets, but there is always the chance of an interception, even if they don’t know what it is, they should work out the purpose pretty soon after the first asteroid is launched. Elecromagnetic torpedoes sound…devastating. Seems like it would be able to turn the tide against a flood infestation. Only problem is, if using it on a planet, say goodbye to that planet being productive or useful ever again. Flood probably have the numbers to take a hit like that.

    That’s a point, does anyone have any stats on Flood numbers? Could they use that tactic. Obviously, Star Wars has many planets, but used on key areas, could work. Species 8472 ship loaded with Flood jumps out of Fluidic Space, disgorges Flood on planet, books it. SW left with leaving key planet to Flood, or destroying the key planet themselves, as the chance of reclaiming a world from the Flood without Plot Shields sounds very low.

    Sorry for asking so many questions, Got to leave soon, so I can’t research myself.

  90. Darth Bombad November 25, 2014 at 6:49 am -      #490

    @the_man_with The_Answers
    Actually if you look closely when the Ebon Hawk zooms by the camera you can clearly
    make out individual explosions on the planets surface from space, not bad for an ancient ship.

    @FezzesRCool11
    One that assumes species 8472 made it through the wormhole in the first place.
    And two most Wars planets are completely shielded, but since team 2 aren’t and Star Wars
    ships are undetectable when in hyperspace coupled with their insane speed advantage.

    Then team 2 has to worry about shock and awe way more than Star Wars does.
    Just jump in devastate with their ridiculous variety of super weapons then speed away.

  91. Shgon Dunstan November 25, 2014 at 8:13 am -      #491

    @Darth Bombad
    “The entire planet is a city many miles high and deep just like Coruscant.
    The Old Republic shows that the entire planet was reduced to rubble.”

    Not really. Oh it’s landmass is all one big city, but the surface of the planet is mostly one big ocean.

    starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Taris

  92. OberHerr November 25, 2014 at 8:18 am -      #492

    @Numinous One
    The Forerunners wiped out whole solar systems to try to stop the Flood’s advance. It didn’t work. Within hours of planetfall they have taken over Forerunner planets, which are designed and made to defend against them. Having a bomb like that just denies them temporarily access to more biomass, which in this case they don’t even need. All it does is eliminates a planet for SW use in the end. Which is why the Flood sucks. To get rid of them you have to completely vaporize the area they landed within minutes. And even then, if they attack more than one area, you’ll have to destroy the planet or abandon it.

  93. the_man_with The_Answers November 25, 2014 at 10:17 am -      #493

    “As far as the Flood are concerned they should be rather easily countered early on by electromagnetic torpedoes.”

    Problem is, using those is a losing strategy. If the Flood make landfall and there isn’t a ship in the area to immediately glass the area, the Flood have effectively taken out the entire planet’s population, whether you life-wipe the planet or not. And by the time reinforcements have arrived, the Flood will likely have already set out on dozens of random infection vectors with any hyperspace ships they’ve acquired.

    “Actually if you look closely when the Ebon Hawk zooms by the camera you can clearly
    make out individual explosions on the planets surface from space, not bad for an ancient ship”

    And would you like to scale that? You can clearly see the city from that distance, and make out the figugre of buildings and groups of buildings, which means you’re looking at low kilotons at best. It reminds me of this:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCEmrH42FKM
    or on the higher end

  94. Sauroposeidon November 25, 2014 at 10:47 am -      #494

    “Also, saying Star Destroyers are maneuverable is…kind of a lie”

    I think they are extremely maneuverable for a vehicle that’s well over a kilometer long. O.o

    They are shown as being able to avoid each other in extremely close ranges, and as being able to blockade runners and other vessels. Most of their mass besides the star they carry are the boosters slapped on the ass end of it.

    “Also, who has perfect precog?”

    Some Gundam cha- oh! You mean in SW *smirk*. I’m surethere’s a sith out there who specializes only in seeing the future. But I don’t recall much of it since that sounded boring.

    “Here we go again…”

    This is composite SW, which does mean that they in fact ARE that. It’s not something you can get around for this particular battle.

    “Then why don’t you show that? As opposed to single digit ton explosions”

    Despite the hype, the TOR series is a major blemish on the history of SW. I don’t think discussing it will do either side any good.

  95. the_man_with The_Answers November 25, 2014 at 11:38 am -      #495

    “This is composite SW, which does mean that they in fact ARE that. It’s not something you can get around for this particular battle.”

    Shall I pull up the quote where turbolasers, explicitly turned to max, do such amazing things as “blow up a few acres of forest” and “Start fires in the forest”? Unless “max power” means “set your weapons to 0.00001% power” in Star Wars. Know that positively skewed bell curve I mentioned before? Gigatons and mid-high megatons would fall way left on that thing. So I see no reason why a “firepower minority” should be the primary data taken into consideration.

  96. Jake_Uzumaki November 25, 2014 at 12:04 pm -      #496

    ” I’m surethere’s a sith out there who specializes only in seeing the future. But I don’t recall much of it since that sounded boring.”

    Palpatine was known for precog in long games which he used to successfully manipulate the events of the Clone Wars.

    He also had an entire Darkside faction under him in the Empire called the Prophets of the Darkside whose whole thing was to be precog radars, they predicted the destruction of the first Death Star (but due to plot either the military ignored it or dissenters didn’t tell Palpatine can’t remember which) to the date, among other things.

    The Wookie Jedi Master Tyvokka was known for his ability to see all possible outcomes of a given situation

    In the Shatterpoint Novel Mace Windu predicted the Yuuzhan Vong takeover of Courascant
    “I have seen the Temple in ruins, the Senate smashed, and Coruscant itself shattered by orbital bombardment from immense ships of impossible design. I have seen Coruscant, the seat of galactic culture, become a jungle far more hostile and alien than any on Haruun Kal. I have seen the end of civilization.”

    Starkiller received spotty precognitive visions at times

    Darth Traya was known for her ability to peer thousands of years into the future (that being the max of her range of precognitive abilities) predicting Jango Fett’s defeat at the hands of Mace Windu 4000 years before it would occur in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

    Darth Caedus could see many paths for the future to take and tried to guide the galaxy down the “best” one.

    It also helps that all Jedi and Sith generally agreed that getting a second or third opinion on a vision helped with interpretation so they will likely be quick to ask the millions/billions of other Force users what they think of the visions that likely many people will see.

    The only limitation is usually inability to see things regarding your own death, that is unless Darth Tenebrous is doing it, he was able to overcome the limitation to predict his own death and tried to work to prevent it and he could likely teach it to anyone.
    -

  97. erickyboo November 25, 2014 at 12:57 pm -      #497

    Flood has access to precursor knowledge. Flood modified high charity
    :
    “The Flood-infested High Charity never entered Earth’s atmosphere, and did not transit the Portal at Voi. However, the Gravemind did become aware of Earth’s Portal – and thus the danger that the Lesser Ark still posed to his plans – as soon as he arrived in the Sol system. His modifications to High Charity were far-reaching, both to keep the facility functioning after the departure of the Keyship, and to better serve as a mobile plagueship from which he could sing victory everlasting in a galaxy consumed of thinking life. But even with an intellect impossibly vast and deep, able to twist the technologies of the Covenant far beyond their original functionality by application of esoteric Precursor science, the ancient abomination was unable to both conduct a desperate bridging maneuver to the Ark and maintain the structural integrity of High Charity after its arrival.”
    :

    Out of the 0673 shield worlds, two have been destroyed. 0459 and 0001. Shield world 006 is utilized by ONI. It contains numerous things, including forerunner vessels. Shield world 0673 is utilized by the Ussans, one san shyuum should be there. Ancilla enduring bias is it’s custodian. Installation 01, 02, 06 remain without much information. 07 has been properly contained by Sangheili and UNSC. Flood is contained. 03 was taken by ancilla static carillon. It contains a composer as well. Installation 04’s fragments may be out there and Alpha Shard’s fate is not entirely known yet. Installation 05 was sterilized and ONI maintains a research facility. Other installations include the line installations, damaged lesser ark, sabotaged X50. X40. Some others. There is also a giant ship that was buried inside babd Catha. Also, some 3 million forerunner worlds…

  98. Sauroposeidon November 25, 2014 at 3:34 pm -      #498

    “So I see no reason why a “firepower minority” should be the primary data taken into consideration.”

    Because why would they use the weaker weapons if they now have easy access to stronger ones?

    I don’t personally make that choice even in video games where there are no stakes. For them it’s life and death. Logically I must conclude that they’ll use the most powerful equipment, especially if they have to in order to fight equally, which some factions in SW will have to in order to compete with higher tier factions on the other side.

  99. Jake_Uzumaki November 25, 2014 at 3:55 pm -      #499

    Also the Aing-Tii flowwalkers do have a very limited ability to spiritually travel into the past or future and manipulate events to a degree, it’s quite likely this could be used to warn of impending attacks and explain what does and does not work on team 2

  100. erickyboo November 25, 2014 at 3:57 pm -      #500

    I do wonder… is there any way of transporting the installations into the star wars galaxy? Even if it’s just installation 03. In escalations we see Static Carillon transport installation 03 above the composer’s forge, and John was willing to activate it to kill didact except for then loss of life in a 25,000 light year radius.

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