Star Wars Vs Warhammer 40K, Halo & Star Trek

Star Wars Vs Warhammer 40K, Halo & Star Trek

Suggested by Commander Farsight

Composite Star Wars has a Wormhole 1,000 km in diameter, connecting to 40k‘s galaxy. Halo and Star Trek‘s galaxies are connected to 40k’s by identical wormholes.

Each Wormhole is stationed at each galaxies’ capital. (Coruscant, Terra, and both Earths.)

They have two months to share tech, colonize any spare worlds.

No Gods, Omnipotents, excluding the Chaos Gods. Chaos can still corrupt Star Wars.

Which side wins?

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596 Comments on "Star Wars Vs Warhammer 40K, Halo & Star Trek"

  1. GMoney November 19, 2014 at 9:22 pm -      #301

    “I can also think of plenty of Sith who would be more than happy to drink from the Font of Power and bath in the Pool of Knowledge to become like Abeloth immensely boosting the potential Force Potential of the hives. In fact most Sith would probably be willing to do it once the composite era’s shared their knowledge.”

    I thought of something even better: flash cloned Abeloths. Get the force sensitive clones to drink from the font and bathe in the pool and mass produce Chaos God-esque beings until it’s over.

  2. Aelfinn November 19, 2014 at 9:43 pm -      #302

    “It doesn’t make a modicum of sense from within the universe or out of it.”

    I really don’t see this. “Hey guys, we see them do the thing. Can they do the thing?” “That’d be preposterous! They can’t do the thing.” Just because there’s PIS doesn’t mean they still don’t have certain abilities.
    =
    “Say I have two sets of water samples from different reservoirs.”

    But here’s the problem: no sci-fi has a “consistent” or “average” yield to their weapons. All we ever get is a range to their yields, and establishing high-ends and low-ends are important because of this.
    =
    “For a modern day example, the US has the largest and most well equipped Navy in the world, and the two largest and most well equipped air forces.”

    This is a poor comparison. Those planes were hijacked from inside the country. It’s not like enemy forces came from outside of the country, and it’s not like our radar can investigate materials FTL or scan light-years worth of empy space.
    =
    “So the Breen totally never attacked Earth directly. Totally didn’t get within range to cause significant damage to San Fransisco, instead of, you know, one shotting the population of Earth. The Borg have totally never gotten into Earth orbit before. Narendra 3 never had an orbital battle above it in which the planet was bombarded and life remained.”

    We never see the attack on Narendra 3 or San Francisco. We don’t know what kind of weaponry was brought to bear, and we don’t know if, say, the Romulans didn’t want Narendra 3 for themselves, or how early the Breen were intercepted by Starfleet. PIS could very well be involved here as well, let’s not forget that. I won’t push that issue, but it’s there.
    =
    “The crust being 30% missing isn’t critical to the plot at all as I explained already. And older shitty low budget films can create cooler looking explosions. And I see your “Well the feat is directly stated in dialogue” and raise you one “Halo Teratons are literally word of god.””

    The destruction of 30% of the crust is plot important. While I agree, the exact number isn’t important, the message “a shitton of the crust was destroyed” is what is key here, and the “30%” just tells us the specifics. Also, your definition of “cooler looking explosions” is…not agreeable to mine. Furthermore, the 30% destruction actually happened within canon events. The mention of Teratons did not, and I hope you see the difference here.

    Also, your problem of “it doesn’t look like it should” is answered by your own statement: “It’s abundantly clear the writers have no idea how antimatter works and were just throwing around cool words and numbers.”
    The writers and animators clearly don’t care what something should “look” like. I mean, this is what it looks like when the Xindi attack Earth:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8zsdIQe9UQ

    That’s nothing like what it should look like, yet there it is. We have to work with what we’re given, and saying something is lackluster doesn’t make it not happen.
    =
    =
    This is a rather irrelevant debate, and if I’m reading you right, this probably won’t convince you, TMWTA. We may want to agree to disagree, at least for now, and meet up again when it is more appropriate. I can already see the argument play out, in fact.
    “It still remains pointless to use these high-ends.”
    “Why didn’t we see it other places?”
    “It doesn’t look right.”

  3. Jake_Uzumaki November 19, 2014 at 9:44 pm -      #303

    I don’t know if Abeloth can be cloned…that said the Rakata can and the Ancient Rakata are all darkside using Force Sensitives (in addition to all the Sith and other Darkside users that have existed over the millenia) there’s already a factory of Starkiller clones that could be turned into Abeloth like beings, the Rakata are batshit flesh eating conquerors who love the Darkside and used pretty much nothing but Darkside forged semiliving essentially eldritch tech like the Star Forge, the half the Killiks being farmed could be allowed to do it, all the Light Side users, technically everyone could but the greatest effect would come from allowing the Force users to, granted I don’t know how many could actually go through the process in 2 months but it would likely be quite a few.

    I’d say mostly let the Rakata do it at first since their races hat is “Darkside loving killers” and considering the Star Wars side can create a black hole blockade around the Wormhole they theoretically have plenty of time to pull off this strategy.

  4. Jake_Uzumaki November 19, 2014 at 10:41 pm -      #304

    Also I just thought of a really nasty fleet buildup strategy composite Star Wars can use taking advantage of the Star Forge, World Devastators, and the Ssi Ruuvi equivalents, have the Star Forge create fighters, just tens of thousands of fighters, and have them fly into the World Devastators and SRI equivalents to be converted from Durasteel to Phrik fighters (Phrik being capable of surviving planet busting explosions means the ships should be quite durable) armed with Baradium warhead missiles, ie planet busting missiles…or for the purpose of this match fleet busting.

    Assuming a pound for pound conversion and that my numbers are right on star mass….a star the size of our sun 2E30 KG divided by the mass of say a Chiss Clawcraft 3.8 KG (I would use an Annihilator’s mass but it’s unknown) that…I think comes out to roughly… 5.3E29 fighters from the one star…and assuming the World Devastators can also do pound for pound conversion then it becomes that many fighters made of Phrik and armed with Baradium warhead missiles capable of one shotting every ship on team 2.

    That said I honestly have no idea if my math is sound on those numbers so I would greatly appreciate a second opinion on them.

  5. OberHerr November 20, 2014 at 12:10 am -      #305

    Couldn’t Team 2 just use Star Treks time travel and Dyson Spheres to infinitely figure out exactly what SW is gonna do, and stop it? Plus make a shit ton of troops.

  6. pimpmage November 20, 2014 at 12:13 am -      #306

    I have seen phrik mentioned a bunch. How does it get made? Are you sure world devastators can make that material? Also, if such a material could survive a death star shot, it would need to be ridiculously dense. So much so that I would doubt you would even be able to forge it into anything. Besides, if it cant be scratched by a planet exploding, what makes you think it can be cut and welded together to make any sort of armor? Besides, even if that is possible, being armored doesn’t make your ship’s innards indestructible either.

  7. GMoney November 20, 2014 at 12:20 am -      #307

    “Couldn’t Team 2 just use Star Treks time travel and Dyson Spheres to infinitely figure out exactly what SW is gonna do, and stop it? Plus make a shit ton of troops.”

    Isn’t Star Trek time travel limited to 1 ship with the Genesis Device? It might give some forewarning about what they would be facing but I don’t think it would make much difference

    “I have seen phrik mentioned a bunch. How does it get made? Are you sure world devastators can make that material? Also, if such a material could survive a death star shot, it would need to be ridiculously dense. So much so that I would doubt you would even be able to forge it into anything. Besides, if it cant be scratched by a planet exploding, what makes you think it can be cut and welded together to make any sort of armor? Besides, even if that is possible, being armored doesn’t make your ship’s innards indestructible either.”

    The World Devastator works by rearranging the protons in the atoms of the material it absorbs. Assuming that Star Wars atoms behave as our atoms do it would be capable of turning carbon or iron into Phrik. And The armor that took a straight Death Star shot was Quantum-Crystalline Armor, which is ridiculously dense. Phrik only survived being a the planet the Death Star shot at.

  8. Tyran November 20, 2014 at 12:26 am -      #308

    The Necrons also have time travel, and the warp sometimes goes crazy and sends people all over the timeline.

  9. GMoney November 20, 2014 at 12:29 am -      #309

    “The Necrons also have time travel, and the warp sometimes goes crazy and sends people all over the timeline.”

    Yes the Necrons do have time travel. But only Orikan has it and it is a personal device so beaming armies back in time won’t work. And while the warp could send a fleet to the beginning of the match it could send it to the very end aswell.

  10. Neon Lord November 20, 2014 at 12:29 am -      #310

    “The World Devastator works by rearranging the protons in the atoms of the material it absorbs.”

    Source?

  11. pimpmage November 20, 2014 at 12:34 am -      #311

    “Assuming that Star Wars atoms behave as our atoms do it would be capable of turning carbon or iron into Phrik.”

    If this was the case, could you comprehend the conversion between two such states? I am no chemist, but taking something like iron and trying to make it into something nigh infinitely dense would require more matter and energy than what is reasonable to make ships out of? Heck, if a planet’s worth of matter could only create one ton of phrik, would that be at all worth it?

    “Yes the Necrons do have time travel. But only Orikan has it and it is a personal device so beaming armies back in time won’t work.”

    You do realise there is much more practical uses for time traveling right? Like infinite prep time. Unless star wars has infinite prep time too, there would be no way team 2 can lose here.

  12. pimpmage November 20, 2014 at 12:42 am -      #312

    “Heck, if a planet’s worth of matter could only create one ton of phrik, would that be at all worth it?”

    Oh, and if we scale with our own periodic table, one ton of phrik could be 1/1,000,000 of a speck of sand for all we know.

  13. Shgon Dunstan November 20, 2014 at 1:19 am -      #313

    The problem with “composite” meaning they have every”one” whose ever existed in their timeline, is… Team Two wouldn’t even need to “do” anything. SW would starve to death inside a week suddenly having 25,000+ years worth of people to feed. Or if they had enough planets to match… Said planets would just crash into each other.

    That kind of “composite” is nothing more then an idea, the reality is not really workable with a history as long as SW has.

  14. Jake_Uzumaki November 20, 2014 at 7:56 am -      #314

    Actually Star Wars has plenty of planets that are unninhabited that could be used to garrison between Vong Killik and Rakatan terraforming.

    World Devastators can turn water into Durasteel, it’s not a huge leap in logic for them to turn it into a different metal. We don’t know the exact ratio of exchange though.

  15. Shgon Dunstan November 20, 2014 at 9:04 am -      #315

    @Jake_Uzumaki
    “Actually Star Wars has plenty of planets that are unninhabited that could be used to garrison between Vong Killik and Rakatan terraforming.

    World Devastators can turn water into Durasteel, it’s not a huge leap in logic for them to turn it into a different metal. We don’t know the exact ratio of exchange though.”

    Yeah… Not even close to good enough once you get into stuff like “composite means every Killik that has existed”. :?

    Hell, take the Jedi… 25,000 years worth of them… All stuffed into a Temple never meant to deal with the madness that is Vs threads. :lol:

    Forget next week, they’ll be dead in half a second. :P

    The next logical step would be “well, they don’t start in the temple”, but then… Where do they? Somewhere else on Coruscant? Then where are the zillions and zillions of other Coruscant residents who’ve suddenly popped into existence going to show up? :?:

    And like I said, what are all these beings going to eat? Even if they could make enough World Devastators to convert half the galaxy into food, they need said food now, not five months from now. Five months from now, they’ll already be dead.

  16. GMoney November 20, 2014 at 9:54 am -      #316

    @Shgon Dunstan
    their are roughly 180 billion habital worlds in the galaxy not including the companion galaxies that can support life. Only 18 billion have life currently so their is a lot of room for expansion which could curb the food problem. and because this is an FP match they could just throw themselves through the portal in a grand meatgrinder.

  17. Jake_Uzumaki November 20, 2014 at 12:45 pm -      #317

    @Shgon
    the Rakata used billions of Killik slaves unless your trying to nerf part of the Star Wars side just because you want it to be a stomp.

    Not all Jedi were in the same temple, the original order had an entire system to itself without the entire planet being near populated, Luke’s order had temples on multiple planets besides Courascant in the same state, so no it’s not all of them in one place, and there are dozens of logical places for them to reasonably be spread out.

    Most of the other Force Organizations are small tribes that can easily spread out to take advantage of the fact they have only a handful of small cities and the rest of the planet is completely open. Hell really it’s not a problem on most planets because most planets aren’t Courascant, they have millions of miles of land they can use to keep the surplus military in in addition to ships.

    Star Wars actually has machines that work like Star Trek Replicators, they aren’t quite as effective or diverse, but they can make food in much the same way.

  18. Jake_Uzumaki November 20, 2014 at 12:54 pm -      #318

    And while digging through an old debate I found this quote
    “3,200,000,000 habitable star systems.
    Of those only about 1,000,000,000 have life in them”
    so there are 2,200,000,000 systems with habitable planets available that we can say the civilians get put on.

  19. Sauroposeidon November 20, 2014 at 2:54 pm -      #319

    “The next logical step would be “well, they don’t start in the temple”, but then… Where do they? Somewhere else on Coruscant? Then where are the zillions and zillions of other Coruscant residents who’ve suddenly popped into existence going to show up?”

    Just as a reminder, if every human on the planet stood shoulder to shoulder we’d not even take up the entire space of a very, very, very small state. Even 25,000 years worth of humans aren’t going to take up that much space. The issue would be feeding them, which could briefly cripple Star Wars’ various economies. Although considering their ludicrous FTL, it wouldn’t be a serious issue for too terribly long.

  20. Tyran November 20, 2014 at 2:57 pm -      #320

    But Courscant has several orders of magnitude more people than Earth, and for a far larger time IIRC.

  21. pimpmage November 20, 2014 at 3:18 pm -      #321

    Make those world ship things turn into massive planet eating bakeries! Duh!

  22. the_man_with The_Answers November 20, 2014 at 4:21 pm -      #322

    “Just as a reminder, if every human on the planet stood shoulder to shoulder we’d not even take up the entire space of a very, very, very small state.”

    That’s with 7 billion people. Coruscant has what, a population of 1 trillion? If we assume that people live for about 125 years, over the course of 25,000 years that’s like, 200 trillion people. Assuming a shoulder-to-shoulder packing of people who take up a human’s standing area of about 0.1m^2, that’s 20 trillion square meters. Coruscant has an area of 4.71E14, so the population, packing themselves together, would take up 1/23rd of the planet.

    Now, I doubt they would like to be packed this densely, and they all need some housing. If you consider the standard floor space of an apartment is ~29m^2, that’s 580 trillion square meters for the entire population.

    Basically, to make things simple to explain, almost every Star Wars planet is going to need about 200x as much housing, energy production, food, supplies, and so on. Ecosystems are going to collapse because of massive overcrowding of local wildlife and fauna. Could you imagine if, overnight, the population of Earth’s lifeforms raised by a factor of 200? Everything would almost instantly collapse for us. Especially because drastic amounts of the number rise are coming from decades and centuries ago and have extremely limited knowledge about the current state of the world.

  23. pimpmage November 20, 2014 at 4:31 pm -      #323

    This is indeed funny how this is the first thread citing problems with a composite universe. Besides, don’t rules force such housing and food to exist? There is a rule about every combatant having maximum efficiency?

  24. erickyboo November 20, 2014 at 6:08 pm -      #324

    “This is indeed funny how this is the first thread citing problems with a composite universe.”

    Well halo has Shield World 006 which is pretty big and could produce a lot of food fast… so… I guess theoretically it isn’t as bad for them.

  25. Sauroposeidon November 20, 2014 at 6:15 pm -      #325

    You’re making it too complex, Answers. The ecosystems will stabilize. They’re be fine. The sapient population will have it rough at first but things will balance out. For a civilization that can hop across the whole galaxy in but a few hours, these problems are not too great to overcome.

  26. Tyran November 20, 2014 at 6:34 pm -      #326

    “This is indeed funny how this is the first thread citing problems with a composite universe.”

    Well halo has Shield World 006 which is pretty big and could produce a lot of food fast… so… I guess theoretically it isn’t as bad for them.


    The entirety of the SW’s population probably fits inside that thing, and there would still be enough space to invite 40k for a party.

  27. pimpmage November 20, 2014 at 6:40 pm -      #327

    I think he had a great point sauro. Just because star wars authors never wrote about logistics doesn’t mean they can orchestrate massive troop movements or supply transfers extremely fast. 40k authors do write about such topics on occasion but every one seems to count that as a downfall of the imperium. 40k scenarios seem reasonable to me. I have yet to see such a subject discussed for star wars.

  28. GMoney November 20, 2014 at 6:40 pm -      #328

    “The entirety of the SW’s population probably fits inside that thing, and there would still be enough space to invite 40k for a party.”

    Even the race of sentient 50 km long ships?

  29. GMoney November 20, 2014 at 6:48 pm -      #329

    “I think he had a great point sauro. Just because star wars authors never wrote about logistics doesn’t mean they can orchestrate massive troop movements or supply transfers extremely fast. 40k authors do write about such topics on occasion but every one seems to count that as a downfall of the imperium. 40k scenarios seem reasonable to me. I have yet to see such a subject discussed for star wars.”

    The big difference though is that the Imperium is a disorganized mess with worlds starving to death because of rounding errors. They also have to rely on extremely long travel times. It can take decades to cross a Segmentum with Imperial Warp travel. Star Wars dosent have as many of those problems. Food isn’t as big an issue because they have Star Trek-esque replicators, logistics isn’t as much of an issue because they have instant communication and extremely fast travel and their government(s) is very efficient. The Imperium is literally 1984 in space where it takes years for a home repair request to go through the Bureaucracy to finally get to a guy who can do something about it.

  30. Sauroposeidon November 20, 2014 at 6:50 pm -      #330

    “I think he had a great point sauro. Just because star wars authors never wrote about logistics doesn’t mean they can orchestrate massive troop movements or supply transfers extremely fast. 40k authors do write about such topics on occasion but every one seems to count that as a downfall of the imperium. 40k scenarios seem reasonable to me. I have yet to see such a subject discussed for star wars.”

    Except they can deploy entire armies across the galaxy OVER NIGHT. Remember the battle of geonosis? Yeah. Didn’t take them long to mobilize the clone army for that.

    The difference between the IoM and GE or any other major SW power is that they actually have excellent FTL and the infrastructure to support a population this size.

  31. Tyran November 20, 2014 at 6:52 pm -      #331

    Even the race of sentient 50 km long ships?

    It’s a 2 AU long sphere, it’s surface area is equivalent to 500 million earth-like planets, and I feel too lazy to calculate the volume. Insert space-time bubbles and you get a lot of space.

  32. pimpmage November 20, 2014 at 6:54 pm -      #332

    Don’t you use those clone troops as an example. You know those were standing at battle readiness for years. (Decades?)

  33. Sauroposeidon November 20, 2014 at 7:00 pm -      #333

    “Don’t you use those clone troops as an example. You know those were standing at battle readiness for years. (Decades?)”

    It doesn’t matter whether they were standing at battle readiness or not. They still had the transport capabilities to mobilize them. All SW has to do is divert a portion of its armed forces to transport new colonists. The Trade Federation alone should find this easy since their Lucrehulk carriers should function well as spacious refuge holding ships and they are already equipped to transport huge loads of resources. They even have the capacity to DEFEND these convoys! The issue is moot. It’s too easy for composite star wars to take care of itself since it also comes with all those resources to do such.

  34. pimpmage November 20, 2014 at 8:31 pm -      #334

    I understand it when you say ftl speeds help a lot, but that is not what I meant by logistics.

    “and the infrastructure to support a population this size”

    This is what I want to know about. Since I doubt any star wars authors go into detail about this, I will assume you ‘assume’ that is the case. We are talking about training/supplying/feeding/housing/transportation of every single soldier. This is the exact same thing with civilians minus the training bit. Lets continue to use Coruscant as an example here. It only has star ports for 1/23 the amount of ship traffic it will be expecting if we go off of the population estimate as a base ratio. The same goes with ground/air traffic/housing/fuel/food/water/clean oxygen.

    And this problem is affecting every planet in the entire star wars galaxy. What makes you think one planet will use all of its resources to help another planet without the original planet crumbling?

  35. Sauroposeidon November 20, 2014 at 8:39 pm -      #335

    “We are talking about training/supplying/feeding/housing/transportation of every single soldier. This is the exact same thing with civilians minus the training bit. Lets continue to use Coruscant as an example here. It only has star ports for 1/23 the amount of ship traffic it will be expecting if we go off of the population estimate as a base ratio. The same goes with ground/air traffic/housing/fuel/food/water/clean oxygen.”

    Coruscant is likely able to hold up better than you presume, since it has multiple levels and is supposedly planet spanning. The sheer number of star ports there likely makes it one of the best planets able to handle this.

    Less populated planets still have a great deal of open space to handle the new population.

    The thing is they don’t just get “mouths to feed” they also get entire organizations, complete with production facilities, ships, ect. Everything. They are still ready to take care of themselves and are presumed to have the same resources now as they did then. Where those resources come from or how they manifest is really up to farsight I guess.. but we assume they get everything, and they were able to support their own then. So they should be able to now.

    This isn’t like the IoM where they’re constantly struggling. We have enormous galaxy spanning organizations all working together at once. This is why I find the idea that they can’t support themselves so laughable.It would take less than a month for everything to be in order. Maybe less than two weeks. Although the paperwork pile would likely last much longer.

  36. pimpmage November 20, 2014 at 8:49 pm -      #336

    “This isn’t like the IoM where they’re constantly struggling.”

    Thats the thing tho. Star wars does not find themselves fighting tens of thousands of wars all across their galaxy at any one time for ten thousand years.. Neither do they have planets entirely devoted to logistics and paperwork as 40k does. You cannot compare the two.

  37. Sauroposeidon November 20, 2014 at 8:55 pm -      #337

    “Thats the thing tho. Star wars does not find themselves fighting tens of thousands of wars all across their galaxy at any one time for ten thousand years.. Neither do they have planets entirely devoted to logistics and paperwork as 40k does. You cannot compare the two.”

    Yes I can, because this was an issue for the IoM in their fight against the GE, and yet was not an issue for the GE even when we considered letting them have past sith or republic forces since it was essentially the same group(s) just with a new name.

    It’s a testament to their ability that even with their slow tech creep they do what they do..and a sign of how bad off 40k is when entire planets geared towards singular goals can accomplish so little.

  38. Jake_Uzumaki November 20, 2014 at 9:12 pm -      #338

    It helps that there’s two months for them to do this unimpeded, and during that time have the StarForge and World Devastators make a small armada of Phrik fighters.
    I looked back at Gluttonous Behemoth’s rough low end calc on the world Devastators and just them going off the inferior Leviathons could make 124992 TIE Fighters in 2 months assuming all 31 of them working full stop on nothing but fighters.
    I have no idea how fast the Star Forge can produce ships (I’ve seen 6 hours for capital ship tossed around) but even then there’s the ability for Star Wars to just feed Asteroid belts to the World Devastators by using Centerpoint to move the materials to the WD’s by the end of the two month period Star Wars could likely have 124,992 Phrik armored fighters armed with Baradium fission warhead missiles (the planet busters). That would be a pretty devastating attack force, and it could be buffered by droid fighters armed with NJO era Baradium missiles that could destroy a Star Destroyer with a single missile, these same missiles have a droid brain themselves allowing them to avoid point defense weapons to find their target.
    Meanwhile have the Star Forge work on making just fighters with Baradium Missiles or just have it make the weapons to arm everything, just have it pump out planet and capital ship killing missiles while the WD’s create thousands of nigh unstoppable fleet busting fighters. It could be possible for Star Wars to break through the breach and take control of the area around, or destroy Terra, depending on how willing to stay and take beatings everyone on team 2 is. Granted fighters that take little to no damage and start one shot killing Capital ships might be enough to force a retreat, it might be a fleeting victory or it might not.

  39. pimpmage November 20, 2014 at 9:14 pm -      #339

    “because this was an issue for the IoM in their fight against the GE, and yet was not an issue for the GE even when we considered letting them have past sith or republic forces since it was essentially the same group(s) just with a new name.”

    I bet this is because logistics are details included in 40k lore but not star wars lore. You are basically saying that SW has no need for logistics because they were never written about. And that since logics are detailed in 40k lore a lot, that can only count as a bad thing. But if no logistics are ever described in star wars, they must have the best possible? Isnt that the sort of thing that needs to be proven?

  40. Jake_Uzumaki November 20, 2014 at 9:53 pm -      #340

    Actually they discuss the logistics during wars a lot but the worst issue is usually having to cut through occupied/enemy territory.
    That or when it was the Rebellion there were issues of getting supplies but….that’s the Rebellion, rebel’s by and large have worse logistics than galaxy spanning empires

  41. GMoney November 20, 2014 at 10:37 pm -      #341

    @Pimpmage
    One of the reasons why the Imperium has such problems with logistics is because they still use typewriters. Even in our modern era I can fit a library of information on a USB the size of my finger. The Empire also stores it’s data electronically and on an intergalactic internet. This heavily cuts down on the logistics problems they would need to face.

  42. Darth Bombad November 20, 2014 at 10:42 pm -      #342

    So i just realised that composite means that Star Wars has Hypergates.

    img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130214202037/starwars/images/4/4f/TORHypergate.jpg

    Instantaneous travel anywhere some can transport armies or even whole fleets.
    Infiniti Gates do the same and can also unleash planet erasing waves.

    And apparently a well trained dark side user can summon wormholes at will,
    for either fast travel or use as a devastating weapon.

    img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130619025605/starwars/images/d/df/Battle_of_Pinnacle_Base.jpg

    They can do that with technology too, though admittedly that was an
    accident and no one has perfected it but they have the potential.
    Star Wars speed advantage over Trek and 40k has just reached ridiculous levels.

  43. pimpmage November 20, 2014 at 10:45 pm -      #343

    Hey Gmoney, you are half right and half wrong. The imperium does use type writers, but they also use touch screen stuff, holographic stuff… They store information on crystal too. That is nothing special. Everything looks sorta steam punk/futuristic, but it is high grade stuff I assure you. Even though their ‘computers’ run because of steam and gears, doesn’t mean it is sup par at all. It is quite ironic. 40k has processing power that far surpasses anything we currently have on earth. They just dont make it look fancy or anything lol.

  44. GMoney November 20, 2014 at 10:46 pm -      #344

    Only very powerful force users can make wormholes.

  45. Sauroposeidon November 20, 2014 at 10:49 pm -      #345

    “40k has processing power that far surpasses anything we currently have on earth.”

    Can you prove that? Because I wonder sometimes.

    I mean, look at the Lemas Russ. Modern tank designs could probably give that poorly designed wreck a run for its money.

  46. pimpmage November 20, 2014 at 10:51 pm -      #346

    I can only see team 1 winning if they manage to counter necron time travel tech. Time travel = infinite prep time.

    Anyway, since 40k is at its current time, it is at its weakest possible incarnation. There would be so much good stuff to pull from if the incarnation used here was a few thousand years earlier! Shame :*(

  47. pimpmage November 20, 2014 at 10:56 pm -      #347

    “Can you prove that? Because I wonder sometimes.”

    Off the top of my head, the ultra smurf papa had a labtop he inherited from his daddy. That computer monitored every news feed and report from 500 worlds. It was basically a mega computer the size of a modern labtop. Other examples would be cosmic cartography machines. Those things are described as being like the ones from the mass effect mission hub.

    img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121226101100/warhammer40k/images/4/4f/Navigator_Chamber.jpg

    “I mean, look at the Lemas Russ. Modern tank designs could probably give that poorly designed wreck a run for its money.”

    You think so? Sounds like an interesting match.

  48. Darth Bombad November 20, 2014 at 11:05 pm -      #348

    Only very powerful force users can create wormholes Safely.
    Palpatine taught his dark side adepts to do it they just weren’t as good.
    But that doesn’t matter since composite means they have an army of
    the greatest force users from all time and both light and dark side can do it.

  49. GMoney November 20, 2014 at 11:05 pm -      #349

    “I can only see team 1 winning if they manage to counter necron time travel tech. Time travel = infinite prep time.”

    While SW only doesn’t have direct time travel there was an instance where a person changed the past when flow walking. And there’s this:
    starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Oracle_(Pelgrin)
    Isn’t really time travel but it’s predictions have never been wrong and it’s a good showing of Celestial technology.

  50. Darth Bombad November 20, 2014 at 11:24 pm -      #350

    The closest thing Star Wars has to controlled time travel is the Darkstaff.

    starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darkstaff

    If you can convince it to help you it can control time, among other things.
    Same with the Beddlem Spirits, other than that Wars avoids time travel stories.

  51. Tyran November 20, 2014 at 11:36 pm -      #351

    Meanwhile have the Star Forge work on making just fighters with Baradium Missiles or just have it make the weapons to arm everything, just have it pump out planet and capital ship killing missiles while the WD’s create thousands of nigh unstoppable fleet busting fighters. It could be possible for Star Wars to break through the breach and take control of the area around, or destroy Terra, depending on how willing to stay and take beatings everyone on team 2 is. Granted fighters that take little to no damage and start one shot killing Capital ships might be enough to force a retreat, it might be a fleeting victory or it might not.

    If 40k didn’t already turned the Sector Solar into a Warp Rift, destroying Terra will. I simply can’t see how SW could get through the Warp Rift that is going to be the 40k side of the wormhole.

  52. Neon Lord November 21, 2014 at 1:51 am -      #352

    Oh yeah, the Webway. That would make defence of the 40k universe a lot easier come to think of it.

  53. OberHerr November 21, 2014 at 7:34 am -      #353

    And can we stop talking about the WD/Star Forge making Phrik ships like its a thing? Its not. It never has been. Unless you can prove they have been shown to do that, they are gonna make the same ships they have been shown to make.

  54. Jake_Uzumaki November 21, 2014 at 7:42 am -      #354

    They are stated to be able to make anything they have the plans for, just because Warhammer sucks at keeping blueprints around doesn’t mean every other universe does. The entire purpose of them is to build whatever the hell they get told to.

    But actually your right, let’s forget that, they can just make swarms of planet busting bombs with engines and shields strapped to them and just let thousands of those kamikaze team 2.

  55. Shgon Dunstan November 21, 2014 at 8:18 am -      #355

    @Jake_Uzumaki
    “the Rakata used billions of Killik slaves unless your trying to nerf part of the Star Wars side just because you want it to be a stomp.”

    Oh please don’t try that bullshit. :?

    “Trying to make it a stomp” would require me being under the delusion that it wasn’t one already. :?

    Just the ability to close the wormhole, time travel, and even more fundamental, the simple fact that the OP failed to state what “god” meant in the context of ST makes it a stomp.

    Powerful Force users are nice, Organians…

    en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Organian

    Just shutting down all SW tech that gets anywhere near Team Two is better. Which doesn’t even hold a candle to a Douwd.

    en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Douwd

    Out and out annihilating whole SW races…

    Nether of those two races have ever been called “gods”. Like I said earlier, such beings in ST rarely are. Hell, the humans themselves get the monicker about as often.

    Anyway. all I’m doing towards the point about composite, is pointing out something I see as kind of silly. :?

    I’ve got no problem with having all shown, or even stated to exist, members of races. But… “All that have ever existed” is like saying “Composite Naruto” means that the Sage of the Six Paths great-great-great-grand-kids are in on the fight, after all he had to of had some, right? :?

    Then comes the logistical side of it, and… No. Even with getting ships and the likes from those times, they still would have to scramble like mad just to feed everyone, assuming they even could, and time spent on that, is time they’re too busy to mount any kind of effort against Team Two.

  56. GMoney November 21, 2014 at 8:18 am -      #356

    “And can we stop talking about the WD/Star Forge making Phrik ships like its a thing? Its not. It never has been. Unless you can prove they have been shown to do that, they are gonna make the same ships they have been shown to make.”

    ….they’ve made durasteel ships out of water before, being able to make Phrik ships isn’t a huge leap in logic.

  57. Shgon Dunstan November 21, 2014 at 8:19 am -      #357

    …A tad heavy on the ” :? “, but it’s not like their are a lot of smiley options to pick from. :lol:

  58. Shgon Dunstan November 21, 2014 at 8:29 am -      #358

    en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Medusan

    …ST can get weird sometimes. o_O

    I particularly like how it says they serve on Galaxy Class ships. :P

  59. Jake_Uzumaki November 21, 2014 at 8:37 am -      #359

    The Bedlam Spirits are never called gods either.

  60. Jake_Uzumaki November 21, 2014 at 8:41 am -      #360

    “Then comes the logistical side of it, and… No. Even with getting ships and the likes from those times, they still would have to scramble like mad just to feed everyone, assuming they even could, and time spent on that, is time they’re too busy to mount any kind of effort against Team Two.”

    Star Wars equivalent of Replicators
    and while the governments do that Malak and Palpatine press a button and have World Devastators and the Star Forge make planet busting Kamikaze’s. the Baradium fission device is small enough to fit inside the falcon making it smaller than a Tie fighter so they can likely make the suicide bomb fighters faster than they can make TIE fighters.

  61. Jake_Uzumaki November 21, 2014 at 9:00 am -      #361

    Food Synthesizers that’s what they were called, knew I’d find it eventually. Devices commonly found on starships used to create food, however ships often carried food rations for emergencies/in case the Synthesizer was damaged.
    Seen in Knights of the Old Republic on the Ebon Hawk and also seen or mentioned in the novels: Star Wars: The Old Republic, Star Wars Droids 4: Lost in Time, Star Wars: Empire 11: The Short, Happy Life of Roons Sewell Part 2, Black Ice, Champions of the Force, and Young Jedi Knights: The Lost Ones among others.

  62. the watcher November 21, 2014 at 9:10 am -      #362

    Don’t make any BS up about food synthesizers. They don’t make food from scratch, they just make already edible things into things someone would actually want to eat, so they’d need materials to fuel them. Warhammer has similar stuff, and Star Trek has better versions.

    If they have an issue with planet busting, then just have the Necrons shield planets. They definitely have that ability, as well as an ability that shuts down technology near it. It works on the grey knights armor and the ship weapons of other chapters, which are significantly more advanced than any non superweapon star wars has. Also, they grey knights stuff is pound for pound better than star wars personal items, not to mention better protected from being messed with. Necrons shut them all down without an issue, and then survived a planet busting attack that only turned the shield off.

  63. KASHMIRE777 November 21, 2014 at 10:13 am -      #363

    @the watcher.
    ok thats cool. got any sources for all this “superior stuff” and why it is superior than just talking out your ass. you just said don’t make any bs for star wars tech but you’re doing the same for wh40k

  64. Shgon Dunstan November 21, 2014 at 10:23 am -      #364

    @Jake_Uzumaki
    “Star Wars equivalent of Replicators
    and while the governments do that”

    Wouldn’t help much, as they’d still need massive amounts of resources in order to “do” anything.

    “and while the governments do that Malak and Palpatine press a button and have World Devastators and the Star Forge make planet busting Kamikaze’s. ”

    That’s kind of funny. Dumb, but funny.

    Asides from how they get their hands on said blueprint, there’s just the fact that said bombs wouldn’t have a clue where the hell they were going. :lol:

    SW, in thousands of years, hasn’t even managed to fully map it’s own galaxy, and you expect them to map three others, at least two of which have random space wedgies, in days? :?

    To say nothing about any other galaxy they have to stop at along the way.

  65. Kara Zor-El November 21, 2014 at 11:08 am -      #365

    “SW, in thousands of years, hasn’t even managed to fully map it’s own galaxy,”
    _
    Because they can’t freely move throughout their own galaxy. Hyperspace lanes have to be charted and mapped. In ST vs SW the galaxies were meshed so it was thought that Hyperspace lanes will exist in the ST half because… reasons.
    _
    So speaking of hypothetical things, how will SW be able to maneuver in the other Galaxies again?

  66. Shgon Dunstan November 21, 2014 at 11:46 am -      #366

    “Hyperspace lanes”, as far as i’m aware, are basically just routes clear of anything ships would crash right into while traveling through hyperspace. Stuff like stars, planets, black holes. That kind of thing. Unlike some FTL drives, hyperdrives can’t just ignore those kind of things, particularly given how fast they go.

  67. Sauroposeidon November 21, 2014 at 12:55 pm -      #367

    “And can we stop talking about the WD/Star Forge making Phrik ships like its a thing?”

    You’re right, it’s not. They’ll likely be using a chobham style mix of materials. Phrik underneath and likely as the main material of the structure of the craft’s chasis because it’s so light weight. Then there will probably be several layers of Quantum Armor. Following this, they may forsake sapping the power core of energy on shield generators by instead mounting molecular shielding over the quantum armor, providing complete immunity to “energy” attacks such as lasers, phasers, and plasma.

    I would probably put cortosis bulge armor around most larger crafts to protect against “smart’ weapons which would shut them down before they could detonate their warheads or whatever. It’s brittle stuff, but even a thin layer of bulge, away from the molecular shielding, would be sufficient to at least get the effect.

    If Sith alchemy is used, things could be much, much worse.

    God forbid I ever get to write some fiction for SW. Their intelligent use of their tech would be constant and awe inspiring.

  68. the_man_with The_Answers November 21, 2014 at 1:19 pm -      #368

    “You’re making it too complex, Answers. The ecosystems will stabilize. They’re be fine.”

    The ecosystems will crash and burn and be drastically changed forever. a 200x or so jump in local wildlife populations, over night, is going to fuck with the ecosystem hardcore. Not to mention you are re-introducing previously extinct animals back into the environment. Could you imagine Africa’s ecosystem if suddenly there were 200x more Elephants, Lions, Zebras, Gazelles, and now a large population of Allosaurs, Baryonyxs, Carcharodontosaurs, Kentrosaurs, Ouranosaurs, Spinosaurs, and so on? It would be an absolute mess that wouldn’t stabilize very quickly.

    ” The sapient population will have it rough at first but things will balance out. For a civilization that can hop across the whole galaxy in but a few hours, these problems are not too great to overcome.”

    They are when, overnight, you now need 200x the production you required previously, unilaterally across all fields of production. If Star Wars was so easily capable of jumping their production and logistical capacities by 200,000%, I would expect almost everyone to have an extremely higher standard of living.

    “Except they can deploy entire armies across the galaxy OVER NIGHT. Remember the battle of geonosis? Yeah. Didn’t take them long to mobilize the clone army for that.”

    Military mobilization has zero impact on how well the infrastructure can support 200x more production needs applied to the entire Star Wars galaxy. Deployment isn’t the issue. It’s “how are you going to feed and supply your army of 200 million if your current infrastructure was built to support 1 million – 10 million”

    ” All SW has to do is divert a portion of its armed forces to transport new colonists. The Trade Federation alone should find this easy since their Lucrehulk carriers should function well as spacious refuge holding ships and they are already equipped to transport huge loads of resources. They even have the capacity to DEFEND these convoys! The issue is moot. It’s too easy for composite star wars to take care of itself since it also comes with all those resources to do such.”

    They can “easily” transport excessive trillions more people? How are they feeding those people? Where are they putting them? Because every planet is now facing over-population, and those that aren’t likely need massive amounts of new infrastructure to support the “bleed-off” from other planets.

    “Coruscant is likely able to hold up better than you presume, since it has multiple levels and is supposedly planet spanning. The sheer number of star ports there likely makes it one of the best planets able to handle this.”

    The problem is, you would need an import rate of supplies 200x higher than current. As would all other planets dependent on imports. “Export planets” would need to step up their production by 200x. That’s MASSIVE improvements. Farmers would need to get 200x the crops out of their fields. Hunters/Livestock farmers would need to kill 200x as much game/livestock within the same amount of land. Cargo ships would have to be either 200x larger, 200x more numerous, or 200x faster. And so on and so on.

    There’s a reason production companies fight for every tiny production value percentage increase that they can. Because it is insanely hard to make large production increases in a short time frame, let alone 200,000% ones.

    “Less populated planets still have a great deal of open space to handle the new population.”

    And a drastic amount of infrastructure that needs to be set up first. This also takes bites out of areas that could be used for expanded farming, or expanded production in general.

    “The thing is they don’t just get “mouths to feed” they also get entire organizations, complete with production facilities, ships, ect. Everything. They are still ready to take care of themselves and are presumed to have the same resources now as they did then. Where those resources come from or how they manifest is really up to farsight I guess.. but we assume they get everything, and they were able to support their own then. So they should be able to now.”

    Unless they get duplicate planets things don’t scale up that nicely. There’s only so much land area to farm. Only so much space and resources to set up production. Only so many animals can live in a stable ecosystem.

    Another question is at what stage do the extra composite beings and ships come in at? “Most current forms of their existence,” which would be the final moment before they died (In which case you have a massive population boost in which most people die after the first few minutes from old age)? Some arbitrary point in their life? The conception of their life (Congrats, Coruscant now has 199 trillion babies!)? Where are overlapping infrastructure going to be placed? And so on and so on. These are all important factors to consider when talking about galactic war.

    “It would take less than a month for everything to be in order.”

    Haha no. A composite galaxy would have so many political, ecological, and economical issues it would be a hot steaming mess. Unless you had like, 200 duplicate planets for every planet of course. But that would also cause some massive issues with the gravitational effects on each other’s orbits, which also creates problems.
    -

  69. Sauroposeidon November 21, 2014 at 1:28 pm -      #369

    “The ecosystems will crash and burn and be drastically changed forever. a 200x or so jump in local wildlife populations, over night, is going to fuck with the ecosystem hardcore. Not to mention you are re-introducing previously extinct animals back into the environment. ”

    If we’re only doing 25,000 years worth, that’s not a very large period of time. I also don’t know that the wild life is getting such a boost to begin with since they’re such a non-factor. Still, they’ll regulate themselves very quickly. I don’t think things will be very different. A few years at most to regulate. Nature is very resilient.

    Your example of adding dinosaurs doesn’t work, since we’re using such a small sample of time to form the composite, less than a million years.

    “They are when, overnight, you now need 200x the production you required previously, unilaterally across all fields of production. ”

    Except you essentially get that with the composite. They don’t show up naked and hungry. They show up with all of their money, ships, farms, ect.

    ” If Star Wars was so easily capable of jumping their production and logistical capacities by 200,000%, I would expect almost everyone to have an extremely higher standard of living.”

    They can’t, unless you give them these things.. which we’re doing since composite means they get the same facilities and resources and such that they had back then.

    “And a drastic amount of infrastructure that needs to be set up first. This also takes bites out of areas that could be used for expanded farming, or expanded production in general.”

    That’s fine.

    “Unless they get duplicate planets things don’t scale up that nicely. There’s only so much land area to farm. Only so much space and resources to set up production. Only so many animals can live in a stable ecosystem.”

    Space is the only problem. The wildlife will be fine. The issue is people need space to live. But when you have so many factions already set to mobilize, it’s not such an enormous issue.

    “Another question is at what stage do the extra composite beings and ships come in at? ”

    BankGambling has a rule for that.

    “Unless you had like, 200 duplicate planets for every planet of course. ”

    There are plenty of spare planets.

  70. KASHMIRE777 November 21, 2014 at 1:37 pm -      #370

    I like how people are bringing up overpopulation to screw over star wars when the other composite debates don’t care.

  71. Shgon Dunstan November 21, 2014 at 1:48 pm -      #371

    A. Other composite don’t normally cover 25,000 years worth of time, and B. Go even past that, and have debaters claim it means that they get everything that’s ever existed throughout all time of the setting…

    Hell, a lot of “composite” matches mean little more then a character/ faction gets to use a toy that they lost at some point in the story, not… THAT insanity. :?

  72. GMoney November 21, 2014 at 1:51 pm -      #372

    “Don’t make any BS up about food synthesizers. They don’t make food from scratch, they just make already edible things into things someone would actually want to eat, so they’d need materials to fuel them. Warhammer has similar stuff, and Star Trek has better versions.”

    star wars food replicators work on anything, but they don’t create something from nothing which star trek replicators do. And it can be nay medium, say, a tree, that it works on. and as far as I know the Imperium dosent have replicators they just recycle dead bodies and feces into food, which is nowhere near as efficient as Turning stuff straight into food.

    “If they have an issue with planet busting, then just have the Necrons shield planets. They definitely have that ability, as well as an ability that shuts down technology near it.”

    necrons do not have planetary shielding, I want a source

    ‘It works on the grey knights armor and the ship weapons of other chapters, which are significantly more advanced than any non superweapon star wars has. Also, they grey knights stuff is pound for pound better than star wars personal items, not to mention better protected from being messed with. Necrons shut them all down without an issue, and then survived a planet busting attack that only turned the shield off.”

    considering plasma is considered outdated in star wars and a holy relic technology by the imperium… Also when did the Necrons do this? source? and you’ve said three times about how such and such is a planetkiller but you haven’t given proof.

  73. the_man_with The_Answers November 21, 2014 at 1:55 pm -      #373

    “If we’re only doing 25,000 years worth, that’s not a very large period of time. I also don’t know that the wild life is getting such a boost to begin with since they’re such a non-factor.”

    25,000 years was for what I was assuming a “modern Star Wars” time frame for “modern” populations. Just like the same would be roughly true for “modern humans.” However, a “composite” Earth would include not only the humans from a 25,000 year span, but the lifeforms from a 2.7 billion+ timeframe. So a 200x increase isn’t really fair for the wildlife side of things. We’re looking at something insanely higher than that.

    Also, believe it or not, life has a significant impact on how planets function. Ice Ages have been caused by the early introductions and rapid growths of oxygenic photosynthesizing lifeforms, as they were “rapidly” decreasing CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere. Not to mention massive amounts of additional heterotrophs are going to start impacting farming to quite a degree. I don’t even want to imagine how fucked up oceans and atmosphere would be with the massive impact that would ensue from the summation of 3 billion years of biological lifeforms suddenly coming to exist at the same time…

    “Nature is very resilient”

    Yes, but that doesn’t mean that when things balance out it is going to be favorable. It doesn’t mean things will return to their current state. It will be drastically changed from its prior state, and definitely not over a short period of time.

    “Your example of adding dinosaurs doesn’t work, since we’re using such a small sample of time to form the composite, less than a million years.”

    The time-sample was for “modern-sapient species.” A composite would include the summation of their evolutionary tree’s population, as well as that for every other “modern” species. So yeah, dinosaurs. And regardless the reintroduction of extinct species is going to have significant impacts.

    “Except you essentially get that with the composite. They don’t show up naked and hungry. They show up with all of their money, ships, farms, ect.”

    But where is it all going?

    “Space is the only problem. The wildlife will be fine. The issue is people need space to live. But when you have so many factions already set to mobilize, it’s not such an enormous issue.”

    Wildlife will collectively shit itself. And they have the capacity to create extra infrastructure for trillions upon trillions of extra people? And again, where is this overlapping infrastructure going to be located?

  74. pimpmage November 21, 2014 at 3:57 pm -      #374

    I would like some points answered here.

    First, star wars cant do much of anything within another galaxy without spending thousands of years plotting it and mapping it. This gives Halo and Star trek a super advantage.

    All the while OP gave star wars direct access to galaxy destruction button that is Terra in 40k. Though I don’t think it would be too bad since demons and all the races will be of one mind against team 1. Surely that would just power up demons’ abilities’ to fuck up SW’s shit while they sit in real space.

    Also, necron time travel tech. This means infinite prep time for 40k, unless they somehow manage to slip into other galaxies and help them prep which must surely be possible with so much prep

  75. OberHerr November 21, 2014 at 4:03 pm -      #375

    On the Phrik thing…..until someone shows me some sauce for them doing this. They can’t. Its called BankGambling, not Fictionpile.

  76. OberHerr November 21, 2014 at 4:08 pm -      #376

    And Pimp, don’t forget Halo and ST have Timetravel/Dilation as well.

  77. KASHMIRE777 November 21, 2014 at 4:20 pm -      #377

    if necrons have unlimited prep time due to time travel why haven’t they beat every other faction in wh40k

  78. OberHerr November 21, 2014 at 4:39 pm -      #378

    Because PIS, or in this case, the guy in charge of said device doesn’t use it for anyone else but himself.

  79. Friendlysociopath November 21, 2014 at 4:43 pm -      #379

    Could I get quotes on Necron Time Travel? I’m unable to find it, although I admit I mainly only look on 1d4chan… what can I say, I love it there.

  80. Jake_Uzumaki November 21, 2014 at 5:02 pm -      #380

    @Ober
    I wonder why you didn’t whine and bitch about that when you were told about it in IoM and GE. Are you still bitching about losing that debate? Or are you just scared your precious grimdork scifi will lose again.

  81. pimpmage November 21, 2014 at 5:17 pm -      #381

    Hey jake, composite IoM has other forms of time/space travel that allow unlimited prep. If we undig that match, it could flip the other way around. YOU should drop it.

    “Though he is a skilled astromancer, his predictions are not flawless and unforeseen events can change his calculations. Warp travel is such an event, its turbulent nature defying any prediction. Under such circumstances, he is forced to employ closely guarded chronomantic abilities and travel backwards in time to make sure that his prophesied future events are back on track. When the Imperial Navy dockyards at Helios VI were left standing against Waaagh! Skullkrak due to a timely intervention by the Silver Skulls Space Marines, in defiance of his original prophecy, Orikan traveled back in time and ambushed the Space Marines, ensuring that his original prediction came to pass and his reputation was intact. He takes great care to keep his advanced time traveling abilities from his peers, ensuring that he holds an advantage over them.[1]”
    -1: Codex: Necrons (5th Edition), pg. 57

  82. GMoney November 21, 2014 at 5:39 pm -      #382

    “First, star wars cant do much of anything within another galaxy without spending thousands of years plotting it and mapping it. This gives Halo and Star trek a super advantage.”

    Probe droids can actually plot them in a fraction of the time. And since this is composite Star Wars they will have countless trillions of probe droids to do it with. But that dosent matter because they have hyper and infinity gates,and whatever other shit the Celestials have. And I would also add that only the Tau can actually leave the 40k galaxy. The Webway and the Astronomican only go to the edge of their galaxy, and unfortunately for them Star Wars tech isn’t a 1-off like 40k tech is.

    “Also, necron time travel tech. This means infinite prep time for 40k, unless they somehow manage to slip into other galaxies and help them prep which must surely be possible with so much prep”

    It’s not really infinite prep. It’s more like really really really advanced forewarning. Infinite prep would be something like the Xelee self-correcting time stream. Also, Star Wars has several people with perfect pre-cognition, which In itself is a form of prep

    “On the Phrik thing…..until someone shows me some sauce for them doing this. They can’t. Its called BankGambling, not Fictionpile.”

    What’s so hard to believe? The Devestators have shown the ability to convert water (H2O) into durasteel, which is made up of fictional elements+carbon but does not including Hydrogen or Oxygen. How is it a stretch to say they could convert water or whatever to Phrik?

    “Could I get quotes on Necron Time Travel? I’m unable to find it, although I admit I mainly only look on 1d4chan… what can I say, I love it there.”

    Orikan the Diviner. And 1D4Chan is more of a joke wiki, it’s not reliable for debates.

    “Hey jake, composite IoM has other forms of time/space travel that allow unlimited prep. If we undig that match, it could flip the other way around. YOU should drop it.”

    No it still wouldn’t matter. The Astronomican and the theoretical Imperial Webway only extend to the edge of the Milky Way, they would be lost in the warp without the Astronimican’s light forcing them to travel at sub light speeds which takes centuries. And even then the second Terra gets destroyed the time machine goes with it. And how does time travel=unlimited prep? You can only travel back to the beginning of the match. Best case scenario they can obtain useful information about the GE’s tactics. But it still wouldn’t matter because the GE so heavily outclasses the IOM I’m surprised it got to 3000 posts even with that troll who showed up.



    Also the Rakata can build multiple star forges, so hurray for stupid excess!

  83. pimpmage November 21, 2014 at 6:36 pm -      #383

    “No it still wouldn’t matter. The Astronomican and the theoretical Imperial Webway only extend to the edge of the Milky Way”

    Actually, There is another way. There is an alien machine from one of the HH books that can produce an astronomican like light wherever someone wants it to be. That light could be placed goddam anywhere.

  84. GMoney November 21, 2014 at 6:51 pm -      #384

    “Actually, There is another way. There is an alien machine from one of the HH books that can produce an astronomican like light wherever someone wants it to be. That light could be placed goddam anywhere.”

    True but it is not as powerful as the Astronomican and It only expands across part of a Segmentum. And theirs only 1 of it. And even with it still takes decades for the Imperium to cross the galaxy, where as the GE can cross it in hours. Of course this is forgetting about the 70:1 numbers advantage, and the vast technological advantage that the Galactic Empire holds.

  85. Neon Lord November 21, 2014 at 6:55 pm -      #385

    “No it still wouldn’t matter. The Astronomican and the theoretical Imperial Webway only extend to the edge of the Milky Way, they would be lost in the warp without the Astronimican’s light forcing them to travel at sub light speeds which takes centuries. ”

    Halo and ST can tech-share. Biggest weakness of 40k space fleets solved.

  86. GMoney November 21, 2014 at 7:20 pm -      #386

    “Halo and ST can tech-share. Biggest weakness of 40k space fleets solved.”

    How are they going to outfit the entire 40k navy in 2 months? Neither has the manpower for that.

  87. pimpmage November 21, 2014 at 7:34 pm -      #387

    Eldar can literally cross the galaxy in less than a day. Once the other groups get their tech to the 40k verse, the eldar or necrons could distribute it nearly instantaneously.

    Hell, necrons could just share their tech with the eldar and imperium.

  88. GMoney November 21, 2014 at 8:16 pm -      #388

    “Eldar can literally cross the galaxy in less than a day. Once the other groups get their tech to the 40k verse, the eldar or necrons could distribute it nearly instantaneously.

    Hell, necrons could just share their tech with the eldar and imperium.”

    Eldar and Necron space travel rely on the Webway according to all Eldar fluff and the new Necron fluff.

  89. pimpmage November 21, 2014 at 8:20 pm -      #389

    Can you post that new necron fluff? That sounds completely silly. Necrons don’t get much love in novels lately, much of their stuff keeps getting worse in those damn codecs!

  90. GMoney November 21, 2014 at 8:24 pm -      #390

    “Can you post that new necron fluff? That sounds completely silly. Necrons don’t get much love in novels lately, much of their stuff keeps getting worse in those damn codecs!”

    warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Dolmen_Gate

    While I normally don’t trust this wiki it’s cited. And yeah, Inertialess Drives used to be a really cool thing, but such is the writing “prowess” of Mat Ward.

  91. Neon Lord November 21, 2014 at 9:44 pm -      #391

    “While I normally don’t trust this wiki it’s cited. And yeah, Inertialess Drives used to be a really cool thing, but such is the writing “prowess” of Mat Ward.”

    Necrons use both inertialess drives and dolmen gates. IA12: The Fall of Orpheus still shows that Necron spaceships exist and annihilate Imperial equivalents.

    “How are they going to outfit the entire 40k navy in 2 months? Neither has the manpower for that.”

    Manpower is literally one of the cheapest commodities in 40k.

  92. GMoney November 21, 2014 at 10:43 pm -      #392

    “Necrons use both inertialess drives and dolmen gates. IA12: The Fall of Orpheus still shows that Necron spaceships exist and annihilate Imperial equivalents.”

    Hmm, I guess we have a fluff contradiction.

    “Manpower is literally one of the cheapest commodities in 40k.”

    But not for Trek or Halo. In 2 years, sure I could see the Imperium getting every ship outfitted, but in 2 months? Most Imperial Ships probably won’t be back to port by then. And even then specialized manpower is rare in 40k.

  93. erickyboo November 21, 2014 at 11:01 pm -      #393

    “How are they going to outfit the entire 40k navy in 2 months? Neither has the manpower for that.”

    Huragoks?

    I wasn’t following the debate much, so in essence it’s, star wars EU composite, VS non composite, halo, star trek and war hammer?

  94. Sauroposeidon November 21, 2014 at 11:08 pm -      #394

    “Yes, but that doesn’t mean that when things balance out it is going to be favorable. It doesn’t mean things will return to their current state. It will be drastically changed from its prior state, and definitely not over a short period of time.”

    There is no favorable.There is only balanced.

    “The time-sample was for “modern-sapient species.” A composite would include the summation of their evolutionary tree’s population, as well as that for every other “modern” species. So yeah, dinosaurs. And regardless the reintroduction of extinct species is going to have significant impacts.”

    The number of species to go extinct naturally would be miniscule in the tiny slice of time we’re using.

    ” I don’t even want to imagine how fucked up oceans and atmosphere would be with the massive impact that would ensue from the summation of 3 billion years of biological lifeforms suddenly coming to exist at the same time…”

    Except Star Wars isn’t getting 3 billion years. You’re extending composite to essentially comedic lengths for the sake of bloating an argument which already holds no water.

    You need to understand, we’re NOT debating this.

    This is you taking shots in the dark and hoping something will stick,and me shooting you down each time.

    “Wildlife will collectively shit itself. And they have the capacity to create extra infrastructure for trillions upon trillions of extra people? And again, where is this overlapping infrastructure going to be located?”

    It doesn’t matter where they’re located. We assume it works so that the fight can be had. Their universe already has plenty of extra planets with which to make it work with out handwaving, and they have the ability to support all of these people,again, a key failing of the IoM during their match against the GE when both were composite.

    “First, star wars cant do much of anything within another galaxy without spending thousands of years plotting it and mapping it. This gives Halo and Star trek a super advantage.”

    It doesn’t take them thousands of years to set up hyperspace lanes. Who told you this?

    “On the Phrik thing…..until someone shows me some sauce for them doing this. They can’t. Its called BankGambling, not Fictionpile.”

    It is the known canon ability for a WD to de-molecularize whatever it consumes and then recombine those atoms to form something new. There is no reason to assume it can’t make any substance known to SW. This isn’t even a super rare ability in SW. Large droids on coruscant do it too for labor duties. The WD’s just do it on an insanely massive scale and are extremely well defended.

    “Halo and ST can tech-share. Biggest weakness of 40k space fleets solved”

    That’s not the biggest weakness of the 40k ships. Their weakness actually lays in their origins. Everyone takes forever to build ships.

    The Necrons and Eldar both have good FTL if I recall. The IoM on the other hand…Although it might be an attempt to balance them for why they haven’t conquered everything. I noticed they did the same exact thing to the Tau when they accidentally made them too powerful to the point that when they actually focused their forces no faction seemed able to withstand an assault from them. This seems to be the gamesworkshop fix to things. Faction getting too strong? Punch their FTL in the balls so everyone else’s tech creep can catch up before they rape too much.

    “Manpower is literally one of the cheapest commodities in 40k.”

    A shame it gets fewer results than storm troopers and red shirts do.

  95. Friendlysociopath November 21, 2014 at 11:08 pm -      #395

    I wasn’t following the debate much, so in essence it’s, star wars EU composite, VS non composite, halo, star trek and war hammer?

    That appears to be the case.

  96. pimpmage November 21, 2014 at 11:11 pm -      #396

    “even then specialized manpower is rare in 40k.”

    No, not really. If you are on a world of farmers, all you will find are peasants. If you are on a forge world, you will find the best and brightest. Its just where you look that matters.

    “You need to understand, we’re NOT debating this.”

    Uh, yes we are. There is no way SW can cope with that. All you have said so far is that SW can brush it off within a month. Completely baseless wank. You stop that.

    “There is no reason to assume it can’t make any substance known to SW.”

    No, they have never been shown to make phrik ever. Dont say PIS is an excuse. They would have made everything ever out of it.

  97. Friendlysociopath November 21, 2014 at 11:22 pm -      #397

    Seriously? You’re arguing that the composite Star Wars with composite forces, composite knowledge and composite RESOURCES LIKE FOOD, can’t manage to feed themselves?
    Or that the assembled forces will make the planet shit itself and die? That’s… sad.

  98. GMoney November 21, 2014 at 11:24 pm -      #398

    “No, not really. If you are on a world of farmers, all you will find are peasants. If you are on a forge world, you will find the best and brightest. Its just where you look that matters.”

    I meant specialized in that besides the mechanicum their aren’t many people are who know how to do much beyond menial tasks.
    -

  99. FezzesRCool11 November 21, 2014 at 11:30 pm -      #399

    Nobody has answered my query about the Warp mindraping everyone conneected to the Force, considering that Force=Warp. SW could get messed up pretty badly if that happens.

    @Jake_Uzumaki
    That is a different debate, this is a separate debate from that one, so please don’t try to bring that up in an attempt to insult people or whatever you were aiming at doing with that. Don’t be That Guy, nobody likes That Guy. Also, this is a debate, facts and stuff are in, insults and personal attacks are out. You were posting good stuff, keep that up instead of getting personal, please. Note that I apologise if this seems like a personal attack in of itself, it is not intended to be.

    Ahem. The problem with WH40K Warp Travel not possible beyond the Galaxy is, as someone mentioned, sharing tech. WH40K gets ST Warp or Halo Slipspace, problem solved.

    Really though, with Time Travel, couldn’t IoM travel back to HH or before and reclaim a metric arse-ton of tech and become a huge stompy-stomp force?

    Also, if people are bringing up problems with composite, what about the alliance thing? What are the rules to that? Surely they don’t just all think as one all of a sudden, which means tech sharing and other stuff like it could be difficult. If it isn’t just the mindless alliance and becoming one, wouldn’t the IoM at least protest a little bit to working with all these people who couldn’t give a toss about The Emperor.

    I should have addressed it earlier, but which scenario of ‘if the Emperor dies’ are we going with? I have heard two theories, the ‘Starchild’ or the IoM basically collapses and Chaos consumes all humans or whatever. This could have an impact on how things will play out. Especially if the Golden Throne is destroyed and the Big E dies.

  100. GMoney November 21, 2014 at 11:31 pm -      #400

    I hit the damn post button before I was finished, so double post.

    “Uh, yes we are. There is no way SW can cope with that. All you have said so far is that SW can brush it off within a month. Completely baseless wank. You stop that.”

    Pretty sure the optimum efficiency rule counteracts the overpopulation. Composite dosent just means they have all the people, but all the resources to. And the ecosystem thing should also fall under optimum efficiency aswell even though I don’t think it falls under the composite rule anyway because the plant life isn’t a combatant.

    “No, they have never been shown to make phrik ever. Dont say PIS is an excuse. They would have made everything ever out of it.”

    So because the Reality Bomb was never fired means that it can’t destroy the Multiverse?

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