Star Wars Vs Warhammer 40K, Halo & Star Trek

Star Wars Vs Warhammer 40K, Halo & Star Trek

Suggested by Commander Farsight

Composite Star Wars has a Wormhole 1,000 km in diameter, connecting to 40k‘s galaxy. Halo and Star Trek‘s galaxies are connected to 40k’s by identical wormholes.

Each Wormhole is stationed at each galaxies’ capital. (Coruscant, Terra, and both Earths.)

They have two months to share tech, colonize any spare worlds.

No Gods, Omnipotents, excluding the Chaos Gods. Chaos can still corrupt Star Wars.

Which side wins?

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552 Comments on "Star Wars Vs Warhammer 40K, Halo & Star Trek"

  1. Jolttra November 11, 2014 at 9:25 pm -      #101

    All three of these together win and Warhammer and Halo would put up a fight alone. But Trek? No. Most of their high end feats are easily debunked and they have way more low end feats. Also, the Borg cube lost against an ISD in one on one on this site. Species 8472 is the only real threat, but they are outnumbered. Yeah, I call bs on them beating Wars.

  2. Aelfinn November 11, 2014 at 9:41 pm -      #102

    “Most of their high end feats are easily debunked and they have way more low end feats. ”

    Yeah…no. I can just copy-paste my arguments from STvSW, as I’m sure the arguments that will “easily debunk” the high-end feats are ones I’ve seen already. Furthermore, Star Wars has way more low-end feats than high-end feats as well, so it’s in the same boat. The only difference is, Star Trek has a much greater high-end that has actually been demonstrated in-show instead of a tech-manual.
    =
    “Also, the Borg cube lost against an ISD in one on one on this site.”

    That must have been YEARS ago, before even my time. Probably when L-W was still around, and L-W was very much a fan of Star Wars and StarDestroyer.net. Some may say to the point of wankage or fanboyism. Either way, the Borg adapt to the Turbolasers from the ISD and teleport drones over to the bridge/engine room/anywhere important. Some drones may die to the blasters, but the drones will adapt as well. They’ll assimilate crew members and the ship itself if need be. Eventually, they’ll take enough control of the ship to cripple it in its fight, or they’ll just add another ship to the Collective.

  3. Jolttra November 11, 2014 at 9:47 pm -      #103

    Borg adaption is more limited then people think. They never became immune to phaser or Photon Torpedo fire. Just resistant. And they can’t teleport into the Star Destroyer because of shields and armor thicker and denser then anything in Trek. If you want to repost, do it. Be a lot easier then digging threw 5000 plus comments.

  4. GMoney November 11, 2014 at 9:52 pm -      #104

    “The Emperor in his current incarnation can stop time. Among other things. Pimpmage can tell how canon that bit still is.
    “YET SURELY WE KNEW. HOW COULD WE NOT KNOW?”
    “ONCE WE HAVE ANALYSED THE INFORMATION WITHIN THIS SUB-MIND OF OURS.”
    “HEAR THIS, JAQ DRACO: ONLY TINY PORTIONS OF US CAN HEED YOU, OTHERWISE WE NEGLECT OUR IMPERIUM, OF WHICH OUR SCRUTINY MUST NOT FALTER FOR AN INSTANT. FOR TIME DOES NOT HALT EVERYWHERE WITHIN THE REALM OF MAN. INDEED TIME ONLY HALTS FOR YOU.”
    “WE ARE AN EVER WATCHFUL LORD, ARE WE NOT? DID YOU HOPE TO GAIN OUR UNDIVIDED ATTENTION?”
    “HOW ELSE SHOULD WE SOUL-BIND PSYKERS AND OVERVIEW THE WARP AND BEAM THE ASTRONOMICAN BEACON AND SURVIVE AND RECEIVE INFORMATION AND GRANT AUDIENCES ALL AT ONCE, UNLESS WE ARE MANY?”
    “AND YET STILL WE MISS SO MUCH, SO VERY MUCH? SUCH AS THAT WHICH GUIDED YOU HERE”

    I’m unsure how that implies time stopping.

    “Also, the traitor legions where simply zapped and became corrupted. The Death Guard said that they weren’t going to serve Chaos, and look what happened to them. They got turned into sludgebuckets in their armor, and had no choice but to turn. The 1k Sons got teleported onto a daemon world right from the get go, and they had no say in what happened next.

    I said the throne would fail before the fun starts. You proved your ignorance again when you said that they can’t enter whenever they feel like after that happens.”

    No, they weren’t. Typhon, a Nurgle worshipping Death Guard before the Legion fell to Nurgle, lead them into a trap where they were all infested with Nurgle’s rot, a very painful plague. Because they were infested with Nurgle’s rot they eventually gave into Nurgle to make the pain go away. But they willingly gave into him, they could have let themselves die but thy willing gave themselves to him. The Thousand Sons were teleported to the Daemon world through a ritual, you just proved YOUR ignorance by not knowing that. And no they cannot enter at a whim when the throne fails, otherwise they could have destroyed the Materium before the Emperor was born and they could do that at any time they want, because time dosent in the warp.

    “This guy liked pleasures. A demon latched on to his soul without him knowing such things as demons even existed. This demon pushed him to pursue more and more pleasure. He wanted pleasure and this demon gave him pleasure. One day he simply was overwhelmed by the demon’s control and was ejected from the control of his body.

    Such a thing can happen to people who seek power. Tzeentch grants power at a price.”

    I think we are taking about to different things here. I’m not saying that the Gods can’t affect force users at all, I’m just saying that The Sith are unlikely to turn to chaos because it would mean serving a new master. And all Sith want to be their own boss. The infighting caused by this was the entire reason The Rule of 2 was put into place.

    @Aelfinn
    Ok that makes sense. Thank you for the clarification.

  5. Alpha or Omega November 11, 2014 at 10:03 pm -      #105

    “All three of these together win and Warhammer and Halo would put up a fight alone. But Trek? No.”
    /
    Halo received planet-busting weaponry in its current incarnation?
    Current Trek>Current Halo
    /
    “Most of their high end feats are easily debunked and they have way more low end feats.”
    /
    This is funny since the high-end feats in Star Trek weren’t debunked in said thread, and was actually strengthened by the Xindi probe scene.
    /
    “Also, the Borg cube lost against an ISD in one on one on this site.”
    /
    Then you haven’t read that thread.
    Currently, the Borg cube is winning.
    /
    “Species 8472 is the only real threat.”
    /
    And ships firing higher yields than Star Wars.

  6. Aelfinn November 11, 2014 at 10:09 pm -      #106

    “They never became immune to phaser or Photon Torpedo fire. Just resistant.”

    The first time the Enterprise-D encounters a Borg cube, they manage to destroy a large amount of its hull, something like 40% with a few shots. The next time they try to do anything, the Borg have adapted and the weapons do literally nothing. You may say “resistant”, but that’s still a pretty big leap, as no Federation weapon ever came close to doing what they did in the first encounter.
    =
    “And they can’t teleport into the Star Destroyer because of shields and armor thicker and denser then anything in Trek.”

    Shields don’t stop the Borg from teleporting, they demonstrate this in the first episode they appear, but they also show this in Star Trek First Contact. Armor also never stops teleportation. Physical barriers simply don’t do that. The only instances that are tickling the back of my mind are something like “they’re 2 miles underground and the rocks give off a weird techno-babble thing”. The ISD’s don’t have thick enough armor.
    =
    “If you want to repost, do it.”

    Lol, I’d rather know just what argument I’m responding to first. My posts were formatted as responses to arguments, so it would seem silly for me to address points you may not even make.
    =
    “Ok that makes sense. Thank you for the clarification.”

    No problem.

  7. pimpmage November 11, 2014 at 10:11 pm -      #107

    @G
    The time stop bit was earlier in the quote but he left that bit out. I posted the quote on a different 40k match that I forgot the name of.

    Also, I understand that they wouldn’t change sides in the fight, but they are vulnerable to any sort of chaos powers was the main thing. They can become possessed or something like that.

  8. Glutinous-Bicarbonate November 11, 2014 at 10:14 pm -      #108

    Nope.

    Nope.

    EEEEEEEEEEeeeeeenope.

  9. Darthgrim November 11, 2014 at 10:29 pm -      #109

    “Good to see you back, Darthgrim. What do you think now that Thor is becoming female?”

    cautiously optimistic, they’re easing into it so its hard to nail an opinion down on it yet, we’ve barely even been introduced to the new thor yet.

    what I can say is that I’m not a huge fan on Nick Fury somehow managing to mind screw Thor into thinking himself unworthy for the hammer though.

  10. Jolttra November 11, 2014 at 10:30 pm -      #110

    Trek is probably the most inconsistent series in this post. Tech manuals writen by the head writers themselves but their missiles and ships at low megaton range. A 250 single ton bomb blew a massive chunk out of the Enterprise -01. And it is stated the entire 500 torpedo compliments would be needed to destroy a single hollow asteroid. Yet in Voyager we have claims of bombs that can destroy entire solor systems. We also know that Federatiom armor is 20x harder then diamond (compare that to durasteel which is 10,000 x harder then steel).

    That crust scene seems like a huge feat, but it makes no sense. The crust is still clearly visible aftrr the bombardment and there are the remains of cities in the blast zone. Also, while so much of the crust was “destroyed” in one volley, they claim it would take a whole hour to do the same to the rest of the planet. Why?

  11. Friendlysociopath November 11, 2014 at 10:33 pm -      #111

    Just throwing it out there, all of these wormholes are extremely close to one another right? And they’re all stationed at the capitals? Meaning anything SW shoots through them is instantly going to be hitting the best point they could possibly hope to hit for each enemy team?
    _
    Did I understand that right? I don’t fully know the rules for these matches, but I’m damn sure the WH40K crowd would fall over and die if the GEoM were killed. At least the Imperium forces anyways, they’re pretty fanatical.
    _
    The wormholes are really the… interesting part here. In warfare, you just don’t attack through choke-points. It’s asking for large-scale death for almost no returns. Essentially this is a giant game of chicken, but whichever side goes first is going to have their force eviscerated by whatever is waiting on the other side.

  12. Darthgrim November 11, 2014 at 10:38 pm -      #112

    If the Emperor dies two things can happen.

    1. He dies for real and passes on into the next life, without his guiding and protective influence all psykers in mankind spontaneously combust into daemons and start rampaging around doing what they want, killing him only really strengthens Chaos.

    or 2. He doesn’t die and ascends to become the Star Child, an uber powerful warp entity powered by all of humanities hope and dreams, strong enough to overpower all 4 chaos gods at once and bring a new era of peace to the galaxy.

  13. GMoney November 11, 2014 at 10:49 pm -      #113

    “1. He dies for real and passes on into the next life, without his guiding and protective influence all psykers in mankind spontaneously combust into daemons and start rampaging around doing what they want, killing him only really strengthens Chaos.”

    Not necessarily. The Materium was doing fine before The Emperor was born so it is also possible that the Emperor just dies and nothing else happens. Except of course The Astronomican failing.

  14. Darthgrim November 11, 2014 at 10:56 pm -      #114

    The Materium was fine because a) the Eldar were drawing all the attention and b) Humanity had not yet developed the Psyker gene.

    When Humanity first discovered the warp they used it to travel space and it’s described as perfectly content and calm. DAoT mankind’s FTL was uninhibited and fast as shit, it wasn’t inconsistent like current man because the warp had not yet become the tumultuous thing it is today.

    Eventually for reasons unknown, possibly the birth of slannesh, possibly because of overuse, the warp turned on man and they were so unprepared that space travel broke down almost instantaneously, further people started being possessed by daemons and so on and so forth. That’s essentially what you’d be looking at for Imperium without the emperor.

  15. Aelfinn November 11, 2014 at 11:00 pm -      #115

    “Tech manuals writen by the head writers themselves but their missiles and ships at low megaton range.”

    Tech manuals have never been canon. Nothing written ever is. It’s only been the shows and the movies.
    =
    ” A 250 single ton bomb blew a massive chunk out of the Enterprise -01. And it is stated the entire 500 torpedo compliments would be needed to destroy a single hollow asteroid. Yet in Voyager we have claims of bombs that can destroy entire solor systems.”

    Well yeah. New material trumps old material, that’s how franchises work. The high-end stuff comes from Deep Space 9 and Voyager, which are not only current incarnation, but also the most recent releases (barring Enterprise, but that includes the multi-Teraton Xindi probe). There’s a scene in Voyager where one photon torpedo would be enough to blow up an asteroid (at least, it would have been if there wasn’t some technobabble/plot about it). I don’t even remember what 250 ton bomb you are talking about. However, there was a 20-petaton bomb in the original series as well. The only “destroy solar system” bomb is the aforementioned multi-kinetic neutronic mine, which spreads nanoprobes over an entire solar system, not necessarily blowing up the planets, just assimilating them.

    If we want to talk about inconsistencies, Star Wars goes from “barely lights forest on fire” to “200 gigatons” for the same weapon.
    =
    “We also know that Federatiom armor is 20x harder then diamond (compare that to durasteel which is 10,000 x harder then steel).”

    Firstly, hardness isn’t necessarily a good measure of durability. Secondly, most defenses in Star Trek rely on the ships’ shields. They regularly get their shit wrecked once the shields fail, and that’s because the shields are much more durable than the ships themselves.
    =
    “That crust scene seems like a huge feat, but it makes no sense. The crust is still clearly visible aftrr the bombardment and there are the remains of cities in the blast zone.”

    Alright, I have no clue what you’re talking about here. What cities? I was talking about the Die is Cast. Furthermore, in that scene, we never get a close-up of the crust, so of course it would look like the ground is still there because the planet is still there.
    =
    “Also, while so much of the crust was “destroyed” in one volley, they claim it would take a whole hour to do the same to the rest of the planet. Why?”

    Why? Because the computer made an estimate beforehand that it would take “under an hour”. Not only did it demonstrably take less than an hour to do what it did, and not only do Feats surpass Dialogue that amounts to nothing more than supposition, but the ships would have to travel around the planet to destroy all of the crust. Why waste energy going to Warp and risk over-shooting the planet while relatively-slow impulse would do the job? There’s nothing more than a kinda-high guess made before the actual feat to suggest anything wrong here.
    =
    =
    “cautiously optimistic, they’re easing into it so its hard to nail an opinion down on it yet, we’ve barely even been introduced to the new thor yet.”

    Good news, though: your gravatar is now much closer to canon.
    =
    “what I can say is that I’m not a huge fan on Nick Fury somehow managing to mind screw Thor into thinking himself unworthy for the hammer though.”

    I haven’t read the comics, but that comes off as way out of character.

  16. GMoney November 11, 2014 at 11:04 pm -      #116

    “The Materium was fine because a) the Eldar were drawing all the attention and b) Humanity had not yet developed the Psyker gene.”

    The Materium was not fine. Ignoring the fact that The Warp ignores the laws of time and space you must remember that the downfall of the Old Ones was caused by Chaos Invasions.

    “When Humanity first discovered the warp they used it to travel space and it’s described as perfectly content and calm. DAoT mankind’s FTL was uninhibited and fast as shit, it wasn’t inconsistent like current man because the warp had not yet become the tumultuous thing it is today.”

    Not really. The DAOT invented Geller fields which keep Daemons out. They wouldn’t have been needed if the warp was calm. What they did have was more sophisticated Warp Drives which allowed for faster and more reliable travel. But the Warp was still very dangerous.

    “Eventually for reasons unknown, possibly the birth of slannesh, possibly because of overuse, the warp turned on man and they were so unprepared that space travel broke down almost instantaneously, further people started being possessed by daemons and so on and so forth. That’s essentially what you’d be looking at for Imperium without the emperor.”

    The Age of Strife is what I think your referring to was caused by massive Warp Storms appearing all over the galaxy. The Birth of Slaanesh actually cleared the warp storms from the galaxy but created the Eye of Terror.

  17. OberHerr November 12, 2014 at 12:45 am -      #117

    Would composite SW even include the EU?

  18. Neon Lord November 12, 2014 at 1:28 am -      #118

    “Would composite SW even include the EU?”

    OP said yes.

  19. Darth Bombad November 12, 2014 at 3:32 am -      #119

    Current HALO are useless Star Trek without their gods are mostly useless.
    The Borg are being heavily wanked here, even IF they were that powerful.
    Having a hive mind actually leaves them extremely vulnerable to an
    entire galaxy full of some pretty high end telepaths, and force “wizards”.

    Warhammer is the only real threat, they have the numbers and ridiculousness.
    But they’re facing countless Jedi, Sith, Mandalorians, the Vong, Rakkata,
    God like force beings, an absurd amount of superweapons, and
    dozens of galaxy spanning empires and a 100’000 year Galactic Republic.

    The wormholes also help them tremendously since its the perfect choke point.
    As one sided as it may seem, Star Wars actually has a very good chance here.

  20. Jake_Uzumaki November 12, 2014 at 7:56 am -      #120

    So is there anything stopping Star Wars from using a black hole to blockade the wormhole and let the enemy forces waste countless resources trying to get by it as they continue buildup? There’s only one portal to Star Wars and that’s the one in Warhammer if I’m understanding the OP correctly so sticking a black hole or two in front of it would essentially give Star Wars infinite time to prepare. As far as I know no one on team 2 is capable of dealing with a Black Hole are they?

  21. the watcher November 12, 2014 at 8:16 am -      #121

    Necron phase ships could get past the black hole.

    @G
    Actually, no. Magnus the Red teleported the 1k sons to the daemon world without any prep, and Tzeentch saved his ass from Russ because he’d intended to die along with them. He had a change of heart later, and that’s why he attacked the Spae Wolves.

    Typhon wasn’t needed to get Nurgle’s Rot to everyone. It was just more convenient, and Nurgle could have caused a warp storm to trap them. And no, the DG couldn’t have let themselves die. That would have turned them into plague bearers, so they’d have fallen anyway. And they tried to commit suicide, but it didn’t work to well. They had no choice, because they would have been floating in space in pain worse than any Sith could comprehend for eternity had they not asked Nurgle to make it stop.

    The Old Ones where not toppled by Chaos invasions. The C’tan massacred most of them, the necrons got another bunch of them, and finally the Enslavers killed what was left. This started the warp on it’s breaking apart, and the gods didn;t come about until after the Emperor had been born. The throne failing would cause a warp storm that would allow daemons to go anywhere in the galaxy without issue. If the wormhole is there, it might spill through that into the star wars galaxy, in which case they have nothing that can protect against that.

  22. Aelfinn November 12, 2014 at 8:44 pm -      #122

    “Star Trek without their gods are mostly useless.
    The Borg are being heavily wanked here, even IF they were that powerful.”

    Please counter the points presented. The Borg are heavily wanked? How so? Everything I have said has canonically happened. I can find the direct sources if you would like, but they will literally say exactly what I have said.
    =
    “Having a hive mind actually leaves them extremely vulnerable to an
    entire galaxy full of some pretty high end telepaths, and force “wizards”.”

    The Borg force all their new drones into the Collective by using the weight of billions of minds until the person’s mind becomes lost in it. I have never seen any Star Wars character perform mind-rape or the like against a massive mind such as exists in the Borg. I’m not necessarily saying that hasn’t happened, the EU being the EU, but please provide proof that they can even come close to destroying a mind the size of the Borg.
    =
    “So is there anything stopping Star Wars from using a black hole to blockade the wormhole and let the enemy forces waste countless resources trying to get by it as they continue buildup? ”

    Ships in Star Trek have escaped black holes before:
    en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Parallax_(episode)



    Look, no one said Voyager’s writing was particularly good.

  23. Jake_Uzumaki November 12, 2014 at 10:15 pm -      #123

    Well it’ll still cut down on the forces at least that is one nice thing about having a superweapon capable of moving celestial bodies at will. They could do like they did with the Maw Cluster and put multiple black holes around the wormhole like a labyrinth or just death net around it. Even if some ships get through it’s something.
    Move Courascant and it’s Sun to a different location to limit the chances of an early loss of the capital.

  24. Jake_Uzumaki November 12, 2014 at 10:27 pm -      #124

    As to the Hive Mind…I feel like the Killiks are the only comparable Hive Mind that I can think of. The best counter I can think of would be to modify that virus that could affect specific groups to affect specifically the Borg.
    Or can they adapt to bio-warfare? Has anyone actually tried that on them?

  25. pimpmage November 12, 2014 at 10:44 pm -      #125

    Does anyone think it would be possible to travel through the wormhole while inside the warp? After all, real space mirrors the warp in some ways.

  26. OberHerr November 12, 2014 at 10:45 pm -      #126

    Blockading the only portal into the Star Wars universe would be a forfeit for SW. The Forerunners could just set up a bunch of suns in front of the portal as well, but that wouldn’t solve the match.

  27. Jake_Uzumaki November 12, 2014 at 11:00 pm -      #127

    Wouldn’t there be no Forerunners because of the whole only Star Wars being composite thing.

  28. Darth Bombad November 12, 2014 at 11:04 pm -      #128

    How is that a forfeit? that’s complete nonsense, and there’s no Forerunners in this match.

  29. Numinous One November 12, 2014 at 11:09 pm -      #129

    Blockading the wormhole isn’t a forfiet by anymeans.
    i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/001/384/Atrapitis.gif

    Put simply, they bottleneck the wormhole with celestual bodies while building up their own forces, including a shit ton of expendable forces created by the Star Forge and Foundry. From memory they both just hang out near a star, harvest energy radiating from it and make stuff out of nothing basically.

  30. SgCombine November 12, 2014 at 11:18 pm -      #130

    @Jake

    The Didact is still kicking post Escalations, so there’s one lol.

    Blockading is a double edged sword since it gives both teams more time to build up there forces.

  31. Jake_Uzumaki November 12, 2014 at 11:26 pm -      #131

    I didn’t say it was a win, but at least it gives the potential for this to not be an utter stomp match, a stalemates not exactly great but it’s something *shrugs*

  32. Darth Bombad November 12, 2014 at 11:43 pm -      #132

    As for bio-warfare The Borg may have been wiped out by a neuralogic virus.
    Future Janeway infected the Queen which spread it throughout the collective.
    How many survived we don’t know, it definitely killed that whole Unimatrix.

    Which is why i called it a vulnerability imagine all the Sith working together
    mind rapeing them, focusing on a hub like the Queen.

  33. Aelfinn November 13, 2014 at 12:45 am -      #133

    “The best counter I can think of would be to modify that virus that could affect specific groups to affect specifically the Borg.
    Or can they adapt to bio-warfare? Has anyone actually tried that on them?”

    There was an episode, “Collective” (from, you guessed it, Voyager), where every drone not in isolation on one Borg cube was killed by some space-virus that only targeted the Borg. It’s never mentioned how long it would take them to adapt, or even if they could adapt. I’d presume they could, considering how their nanoprobes work, but that’s a little un-proven. If the virus could somehow be delivered to the Borg planets, then it might be a viable option…but the Borg would also have Federation medical technology in this scenario, which is pretty damn OP. One holographic doctor was able to reconnect a person’s SOUL to their body. Again, in Voyager. So, I mean, who knows. My best guess is that it would work for a little bit, but a work-around would be developed. Also, Fuck Voyager.

    Star Trek also has Species 8472, which has an immune system strong enough to fight off Borg assimilation.

  34. Aelfinn November 13, 2014 at 1:01 am -      #134

    “As for bio-warfare The Borg may have been wiped out by a neuralogic virus.
    Future Janeway infected the Queen which spread it throughout the collective.
    How many survived we don’t know, it definitely killed that whole Unimatrix.

    Which is why i called it a vulnerability imagine all the Sith working together
    mind rapeing them, focusing on a hub like the Queen.”
    =
    The Borg Queen lost her connection to the Collective, that’s what the neurolytic virus did. She was maintaining the Unimatrix she was located at, so that’s why it blew up. There’s nothing to say the entire Collective was infected, considering that she was still able to communicate with a Borg Sphere up until her death. The Sphere worked perfectly fine up until Voyager blew it up, so we know the virus didn’t infect the entire Collective. It’s also not like the Collective hasn’t lost a Queen before, just look at Star Trek First Contact. It was a major blow, sure, but nothing the Borg can’t recover from.

    Also, Virus =/= Psychic attacks in any form, so even if all the Sith tried to mind-rape the “Queen”, she’d still be connected to the Collective, and it’s not like we’ve ever seen any amount of Sith mind-rape all the Killiks.

  35. FezzesRCool11 November 13, 2014 at 4:17 am -      #135

    The thing with the whole ‘infinity wave through the wormhole to Terra and through the other wormholes to the other two Earths’ thing is this. IoM =/= Main power in the Warhammer 40k verse, the same applies to Earth and the Federation. Besides, the Federation won’t collapse if Earth is destroyed, as in the DS9 episode Favour the Bold, Sisko mentions how the Dominion will not attack Earth because ‘Earth isn’t the key to the Alpha Quadrant, the wormhole is, and whoever controls Deep Space Nine controls the wormhole’. Basically this is Earth is not being the key to taking the Alpha Quadrant, let alone the whole ST ‘verse. Halo is the one I am not sure about.

    On the note of the Borg’s adaptability, wasn’t Voyager able to rig a weapon that constantly changed frequencies or something so the Borg couldn’t adapt? Maybe SW could build something like that?

    If the battle gets to on the planet combat, then wasn’t there a feat during one of the TNG episodes where a phaser (note phaser, not phaser rifle) was able to boil an entire reservoir of water that had built up behind a a dam or something like that. Somebody calculated it to be (if memory serves) something like a handheld lascannon.

    If Team 2 manages to put all their assets together we could potentially have psyker drones flying around in huge ships with ridiculous yield weapons that can adapt to anything really quickly. Especially if they somehow adapt the Orks Waaagh! into the hive-mind, and heaven forbid they get their hands on the Necrons. The Borg could get ridiculous. Also if they assimilate someone, don’t they gain all their knowledge, which is why they assimilated Picard at some point. That could be devastating if the Borg get to a high rank general.

    Also, the blockade strategy suggested would probably just give Team 2 even more time to find ways to make ridiculous hax. Warhammer has ridiculous numbers of soldiers, I mean, they have the Hadex(?) Anomaly which allows a comparatively tiny amount of star systems to match a large segment of the Imperial Guard in terms of manpower. This should be explained in the Jericho Reach supplement book to Deathwatch, if not there then one of the others. I will refrain from giving more examples as otherwise the post will be ridiculously long winded.

  36. OberHerr November 13, 2014 at 7:26 am -      #136

    Halo has the Janus Key, with which they can find any FR structure or artifact in the galaxy or beyond. So basically, any FR thing we haven’t heard of being destroyed, they get. And they have Engineers to operate them. With SW and WH40ks help, as well as the Didact….the FRs might as well be back.

  37. Kara Zor-El November 13, 2014 at 7:33 am -      #137

    “wasn’t Voyager able to rig a weapon that constantly changed frequencies or something so the Borg couldn’t adapt?”
    _
    Since TNG they’ve used rotating frequencies to try and keep ahead of Borg adaptation, always knowing however, that even that will be limited because they will adapt.
    _
    VOY really fucked up some of ST’s big hitters, they fucked over the Q from being true Gods and the Borg became slightly pussified.
    _
    They did give the Federation some badass tech though and uber time hax. So swings and roundabouts I guess.

  38. Shgon Dunstan November 13, 2014 at 9:07 am -      #138

    Thinking about this over night, and… I realized that “what counts as a ‘god’?” is one of the most important questions here.

    Because if Abeloth doesn’t, then… ST stomps.

    Few of it’s god-“like” beings ever get referred to, much less call themselves, “gods”.

    Then mid thinking about Wesley simply freezing the wormhole in time… I thought of something just as important to this fight. Something I’ve already asked about, but never got an answer on(much less before post 50, where it would of mattered). Where are the galaxies in relation to each other?

    Having no answer by the OP, it falls back to the site rules, which say…

    “4. Field of Battle
    Battles take place in a neutral arena appropriate to the scope of the match (i.e. stadium, facility, city, continent, planet, galaxy, universe, etc.), and it is assumed no one side will have an undue disadvantage. This neutral setting will incorporate all associated elements for all combatants to operate at maximum efficiency.

    The neutral arena incorporates a merged timeline for all parties involved parting from the point they were ported in. Combatants that have control over time or may otherwise affect the timeline may not go past this merging point.”

    That their in the same universe.

    Why does that matter? Because I remembered, the UFP knows how to collapse wormholes. It’s not even “tech of the week”, but rather a rather important plot point of DS9. :lol:

    All they’d have to do, is collapse the one leading to the SW galaxy in their two months of prep time, and SW would have to get to it’s the three opponent galaxies the old fashion way, through a universe infested with Orks and Nids.

    Those two months prep(which I might note, the OP doesn’t give to SW), suddenly become years, decades, centuries even… After which, they simply time travel their forces back to the very start of the match, before SW even has time to “do” anything.

  39. KASHMIRE777 November 13, 2014 at 9:45 am -      #139

    They are not merged. They are separate and have wormholes leading to said universe.

  40. Shgon Dunstan November 13, 2014 at 9:53 am -      #140

    @KASHMIRE777
    “They are not merged.”

    The OP says nothing of the kind, and the site rules say they are, and really…

    “They are separate and have wormholes leading to said universe.”

    Being that ST has alternate reality/dimension traveling tech, and SW doesn’t. The biggest thing that would change, is SW would be rendered incapable of counter attacking after they close the wormhole.

  41. KASHMIRE777 November 13, 2014 at 10:36 am -      #141

    Composite Star Wars has a Wormhole 1,000 km in diameter, connecting to 40k‘s galaxy. Halo and Star Trek‘s galaxies are connected to 40k’s by identical wormholes.

    Each Wormhole is stationed at each galaxies’ capital. (Coruscant, Terra, and both Earths.)
    from the op it says it leads to the others galaxy thus meaning they are separate

  42. Shgon Dunstan November 13, 2014 at 10:51 am -      #142

    @KASHMIRE777
    “from the op it says it leads to the others galaxy thus meaning they are separate”

    “Galaxy” not “universe”. Not even kind of the same thing.

  43. KASHMIRE777 November 13, 2014 at 10:58 am -      #143

    Meaning they’re in separate galaxies and not mashed up into one big one. I mistyped about the universe thing.

  44. Shgon Dunstan November 13, 2014 at 11:02 am -      #144

    @KASHMIRE777
    “Meaning they’re in separate galaxies and not mashed up into one big one. I mistyped about the universe thing.”

    …And, assuming I even believe that, didn’t even read my post before starting to complain about it. :?

    The fact that their in different galaxies, and thus after ST closes the wormhole SW would have to take the long way to get to them, was kind of the whole point of me even bringing up the fact that the rule says their in a merged universe.

  45. KASHMIRE777 November 13, 2014 at 11:56 am -      #145

    Star Wars has the capabilities to travel from a different galaxy. But why would Star Trek close their own wormhole to their allies? The whole point of the wormhole is connecting each to their allies. The wormhole in wh40k is connected to Star Wars the wormhole in halo and Star Trek is connected to wh40k. Out of all the factions Star Wars has the fastest space travel so closing a wormhole would be pointless the other factions need the wormholes to get to not only their allies but to Star Wars to try to kill them. Unless they are merged together than the whole point of wormholes connecting each other is pointless but I do believe they’re separate unless the op wants to say otherwise.

  46. Shgon Dunstan November 13, 2014 at 12:12 pm -      #146

    @KASHMIRE777
    “Star Wars has the capabilities to travel from a different galaxy. But why would Star Trek close their own wormhole to their allies? The whole point of the wormhole is connecting each to their allies. The wormhole in wh40k is connected to Star Wars the wormhole in halo and Star Trek is connected to wh40k.”



    “All they’d have to do, is collapse the one leading to the SW galaxy”

    Are you being intentionally dense, or do you just not read my post?

    They simply go through their wormhole to the 40K galaxy, and close the one to SW.

    ” Out of all the factions Star Wars has the fastest space travel”

    Not really. ST slipstream is comparable, and unlike hyper drives, doesn’t need starmaps to avoid crashing into planets stars. Hell, even 40K warp travel is likely to improve a lot with Chaos all buddy buddy with everyone.

    And like I said, Time Travel kind of makes such things meaningless anyway. Team Two can spend how ever long they want prepping, and yet still begin their attack at the very start of the match.

    “so closing a wormhole would be pointless the other factions need the wormholes to get to not only their allies but to Star Wars to try to kill them.”

    Both ST, 40K, and I’m pretty sure even Halo have factions that can travel to other galaxies. Hell, SW is the one with a weight around it’s feet here, as it has a barrier around it’s galaxy that it has a hard time getting though with hyperdrives.

    Meanwhile, the Orks and the Nids would only be a galaxy over from SW, as their supposed to be everywhere in 40K.

  47. KASHMIRE777 November 13, 2014 at 12:56 pm -      #147

    So first how are they going to close sw wormhole. Second why would they cause it would be fastest route to sw Also it is only composite for sw everybody else is current so wouldn’t halo really be a non factor here compared to wh or st. One other thing is what is current for trek is it jj movies or is it considered the end of their last show.

  48. the watcher November 13, 2014 at 2:03 pm -      #148

    Hmm. Abeloth being in this would mean anything short of Chaos could intervene. C’tan are brutal when it comes to fighting, especially if they woke the Dragon up.

  49. OberHerr November 13, 2014 at 6:12 pm -      #149

    Halo also has the Dyson Spheres, which can dilate time further.

  50. Jolttra November 13, 2014 at 6:23 pm -      #150

    In Deep Space 9, the power output of the DS9 powerstation is stated at 790 Terra Watts.

    “the reaction chamber group is the heart of the generator, potentially capable of producing 790 terawatts of power with all six chambers running.”

    A single Imperial I Star Destroyer can generate 7.73 Yotto Watts. That’s one trillion times more power.

    starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_I-class_Star_Destroyer
    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt

    So a run of the mill destroyer with thousands just like it is vastly superior to the single largest and most powerful craft ever built by the Federation. Considering the Federation are repeatedly shown to be superior to most of the races in Trek, and still managed to defeat the few superior species such as the Borg and Species 8472, I say Trek stands zero chance.

    Just to be clear, Wars still loses this and the Q would still end Wars easy. But Treks role in this is purely one for support. Their front line ability is zero.

  51. pimpmage November 13, 2014 at 6:44 pm -      #151

    Man, just imagine halo’s ftl tech on 40k ships. Sooo dreamy.

  52. Sauroposeidon November 13, 2014 at 6:53 pm -      #152

    Jolttra, Deep Space 9 is a Cardassian Mining Station. It was outfitted heavily with a number of rotating torpedo launchers, I presume so as not to drain its power core too greatly. It also has fairly useless shields that they rarely seem to raise in actual combat situations.

    This was done out of need as it was a border station sitting in a fairly dangerous part of the sector with few to no federation ships in the area, and only three runabouts to protect it.

    To my knowledge, most Federation stations are unarmed or lightly armed. MOST stations in general are unarmed or lightly armed. Or at least they were until the Klingon-Federation War in Star Trek Online. Now there’s guns everywhere >_>

  53. Jolttra November 13, 2014 at 7:30 pm -      #153

    en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Watt

    Here is a lits of watt scaling in Star Trek. It states that the Enterprise-D generator is in the terrawatt range.

  54. Alpha or Omega November 13, 2014 at 8:09 pm -      #154

    @Jolttra
    Are you getting watts and joules confused?
    Watt is a unit of power or energy conversion and joule is a unit of energy.
    People get that confused.
    /
    Watts are basically useless when determining the amount of energy unless we are given the rate of time.
    It’s possible something in the kilowatt range can produce more energy than something in the gigawatt range depending on how it operates.
    /
    Today, we have lasers that reach petawatts, but the time frame was in microseconds.
    /
    I don’t see how power generators have anything to do with weaponry anyway.

  55. the watcher November 13, 2014 at 8:40 pm -      #155

    Man, just imagine halo’s ftl tech on 40k ships. Sooo dreamy.

    Nono. Other way around. The SPARTANs get there and they’ve got tentacles bursting through all the gaps in their armor, spitting fire out their mouths, and charging to beat the Covenants’ heads in with bucket of sludge.

  56. Jolttra November 13, 2014 at 9:07 pm -      #156

    @Alpha:
    I know what a watt is. And this has less to do with weapons as it does shields.

    As Aelfinn mentioned before, Trek ships rely entirely on their shields because there armor is shit. Especially compared to Wars armor. So I spent a long time loking for shield calcs for both sides. I didn’t find much. Most calcs relied on weapon calcs which is already a confusing mess of a debate. Calcs for Trek ranged drom 30 kilotons to infinite (yes, infinite. Because the Enterprise has never EVER had it’s shields go down in the history of Syar Trek.) Wars jad even less to work on. Evidently most calcs are for weapons, not shields.

    That’s when I decided to find the power output. Because the shield for both sides are directly related to power output. As you can see, Fed tech is Terrawatt max and even that is considered extremely impressive. While the Imperial I is in the Yotto watts. And newer, more efficient designs have even more powerful generators. It’s obvious from this that even if every single watt of power into it’s shields that Fed ship would still be less powerful then the Imperial’s shield using 0.1 percent power.

    On top of that, Wars shield can be concentrated to become even more powerful in a smaller area. And the Mon Calamari developed overlaying shields that make shields even more powerful. Trek has nether of these.

    One last note. Since Trek ships have less power, Ion Cannons will be devastating. Entire fleets will be left disabled and helpless.

  57. Alpha or Omega November 13, 2014 at 10:36 pm -      #157

    “As Aelfinn mentioned before, Trek ships rely entirely on their shields because there armor is shit.”
    /
    Of course, unless armor can somehow tank nukes.
    /
    “Especially compared to Wars armor.”
    /
    Ehh, while I agree on this part due to durasteel, armor is kinda useless when it’s up against teratons to petaton weaponry.
    /
    “I didn’t find much. Most calcs relied on weapon calcs which is already a confusing mess of a debate. Calcs for Trek ranged drom 30 kilotons to infinite (yes, infinite. Because the Enterprise has never EVER had it’s shields go down in the history of Syar Trek.) Wars jad even less to work on. Evidently most calcs are for weapons, not shields.”
    /
    Where did you get the calc of 30 kilotons from? I never saw a calc that low outside of L-W’s.
    I don’t see a calc for ‘infinity because it never had its shields down’ either, so where are you getting the calc for that?
    /
    “That’s when I decided to find the power output. Because the shield for both sides are directly related to power output. As you can see, Fed tech is Terrawatt max and even that is considered extremely impressive. While the Imperial I is in the Yotto watts. And newer, more efficient designs have even more powerful generators. It’s obvious from this that even if every single watt of power into it’s shields that Fed ship would still be less powerful then the Imperial’s shield using 0.1 percent power.”
    /
    Except we don’t know the rate of time in the output of power.
    For all we know, the timeframe for Star Trek’s terawatt could be an hour while Star Wars’ could be a nanosecond for the yottawatt which would make Star Trek’s shielding vastly powerful.
    Watts are nothing without time.
    /
    “On top of that, Wars shield can be concentrated to become even more powerful in a smaller area. And the Mon Calamari developed overlaying shields that make shields even more powerful. Trek has nether of these.”
    /
    Trek doesn’t really need those to win seeing as they have higher end firepower than Star Wars’ high end and Trek’s low end is higher than Star Wars’ low end.
    /
    Even if we ignore the calcs for Star Trek and say Star Wars is higher, Star Trek had other methods of that allowed them to win.
    Such as Species 8472 with 9 run-of-the-mill ships jumping in and out of fluidic space and hit Star Wars planet busting hits.
    There’s also the multi-whatever neutronic mine from the Borg that can spread their nanoprobes over a 5-light-year radius.
    /
    Here, with two months of prep, the Borg could get WH40k’s Nova cannons and Warhammer can get faster FTL.

  58. Aelfinn November 13, 2014 at 10:50 pm -      #158

    “A single Imperial I Star Destroyer can generate 7.73 Yotto Watts. That’s one trillion times more power.”

    So you’re going to quote a non-canon wiki that uses the ICS as a source? You do realize that’s a power output 1/50 the power output of the Sun, and supported literally NOWHERE else in Star Wars, right? Man, those shields sure held up when an asteroid destroyed the bridge in the Empire Strikes Back, right?

    “Here is a lits of watt scaling in Star Trek. It states that the Enterprise-D generator is in the terrawatt range.”

    You’re literally ignoring the entry that says the generator can put out 12.75 exawatts. Furthermore, one gram of antimatter from the reactor in the original series made a 20-petaton explosion. The entry you referred to says it can “kick up plasma into the terawatt range”, which mean…pretty much nothing. That’s just techno-babble bullshit. Also, let’s be real, the writers were just throwing random prefixes in front of things to sound science-y. Kind of like how 40K ships have weapons in the “tetra-watt” range from one source.
    =
    All of this hinges on the notion that AoO alluded to: power output can’t be quantitatively turned into anything resembling defense. There’s no way to tell just how much one “Watt” worth of defense is for these differing technologies. Maybe Star Wars shield tech is hilariously inefficient, and they need 3 trillion more Watts to do the same stuff as Star Trek Watts. We don’t know.
    =
    “Considering the Federation are repeatedly shown to be superior to most of the races in Trek, and still managed to defeat the few superior species such as the Borg and Species 8472, I say Trek stands zero chance.”

    Nice fallacy there. It takes an entire fleet from the Federation to beat one Borg cube, and they STILL required Captain Picard’s knowledge of the Borg’s weak point to defeat it. ONE cube. Voyager only held its own with Species 8472 because they pretty much invented their one weakness by reinventing Borg nanoprobes. That’s like saying because Lex Luthor uses kryptonite, he’s stronger than Superman and is a good gauge of a comic-book character’s strength. It required a lot of foreknowledge, plot armor, and very specific technology for the Federation to not be immediately stomped by the Borg’s passing farts, and Star Wars has none of those.
    =
    “Trek ships rely entirely on their shields because there armor is shit. Especially compared to Wars armor.”

    So one last thing: you still haven’t proven this. Hardness does not = durability.
    =
    EDIT:
    “I don’t see a calc for ‘infinity because it never had its shields down’ either, so where are you getting the calc for that?”

    There’s one calc for the Enterprise-D tanking an attack from many, MANY universes’ worth of mass-energy. Obvious outlier.

  59. Alpha or Omega November 13, 2014 at 11:16 pm -      #159

    “There’s one calc for the Enterprise-D tanking an attack from many, MANY universes’ worth of mass-energy. Obvious outlier.”
    /

    Um..Haha, wow. I don’t think you need a calc to know that’s a really, really huge outlier.

  60. Jolttra November 13, 2014 at 11:24 pm -      #160

    Star Trek with WH40K nd Halo fot support would win. There is no argument against that. But Trek itself would contribute very little.

    “Where did you get the calc of 30 kilotons from? I never saw a calc that low outside of L-W’s.
    I don’t see a calc for ‘infinity because it never had its shields down’ either, so where are you getting the calc for that?”

    Thr 30 Kt calc comes from the idea Fed ships can’t survive going threw an atmosphere. While ststed in some tech manuals and I think some novels, this is obvious bull ass the origional enterprise was in Earths Atmosphere. As was a bird of prey.
    The Infinite thing you won’t find. I saw it in a YouTube comment by some raging Trek fanboy. Tried yo say the Death Star superlaser wouldn’t take down the enterprise shields evem with a durect full power hit.

    “Except we don’t know the rate of time in the output of power.”

    I realise this and it is a problem. However, both are desribed as the respective crafts peak. And with such a huge difference there is a large buffer space that still makes Wars superior. Even if the Fed ship produced 790 terra watts a second amd the ISD 7 yotto watts in 30 days, the ISD would still be superior. Yes, I did the math. Double check if you want.

    “Trek doesn’t really need those to win seeing as they have higher end firepower than Star Wars’ high end and Trek’s low end is higher than Star Wars’ low end.”

    I’ll admit the high end does seem higher then Wars high end. But not by much. Low end Wars desimates. The lowest calc I’ve ever seen for turbolasrs (that wasn’t fanboy rage) was in the kiloton range. Lowest for Trek weapons is single tons, and that has real evidence supporting it. Most feats but Trek in the megatons for both weapons and shields. Most for wars are Gigatons.

    “Star Trek had other methods of that allowed them to win.
    Such as Species 8472 with 9 run-of-the-mill ships jumping in and out of fluidic space and hit Star Wars planet busting hits.
    There’s also the multi-whatever neutronic mine from the Borg that can spread their nanoprobes over a 5-light-year radius.”

    Wars is no one trick pony, either. With dozens of superweapons of varying destructive power, vastly superior fighters and ground forces, better stealth, millions of species for various support, abilities like force storm that can engulf galaxies, vastly superior robot technology, and the Vong Wars has many MANY was to show its superiority.

  61. Jolttra November 13, 2014 at 11:35 pm -      #161

    “So you’re going to quote a non-canon wiki that uses the ICS as a source? You do realize that’s a power output 1/50 the power output of the Sun, and supported literally NOWHERE else in Star Wars, right? Man, those shields sure held up when an asteroid destroyed the bridge in the Empire Strikes Back, right?”

    It’s been stated in several sources that a ISD rector is on par with a small star.

    “Man, those shields sure held up when an asteroid destroyed the bridge in the Empire Strikes Back, right?”

    That was after hours of heavy bombardment by millions of asteroids. And not a single ship was lost. Damage, sure. Rather litely. But not lost. Name ne Trek ship that has done that.

    “Nice fallacy there. It takes an entire fleet from the Federation to beat one Borg cube, and they STILL required Captain Picard’s knowledge of the Borg’s weak point to defeat it. ONE cube. ”

    By “entire fleet” do you mean “39 ships, most about fighter size”? Because even shitholes like Tatyoeen get more then that for protection.

    “Voyager only held its own with Species 8472 because they pretty much invented their one weakness by reinventing Borg nanoprobes.”

    starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nanotechnology

    They will think of something.

    “So one last thing: you still haven’t proven this. “Hardness does not = durability.

    Fed armor os desimated by 250 ton mines. Durasteel can survive direct hits from turbolaser fire. Do the math.

  62. Jolttra November 13, 2014 at 11:41 pm -      #162

    “You’re literally ignoring the entry that says the generator can put out 12.75 exawatts. ”

    I’ll be honest, don’t know how I missed that. But that’s still gives the ISD a one day buffer zone. In the more likely event the yotto second calc is for minutes or even seconds it pretty much gives the ISD the win.

    “Maybe Star Wars shield tech is hilariously inefficient, and they need 3 trillion more Watts to do the same stuff as Star Trek Watts. We don’t know.”

    Yeah, that argument goes both ways. But literally everything in Wars is more efficient then the Trek equal. So it makes sense to continue that trend.

  63. pimpmage November 14, 2014 at 12:02 am -      #163

    If you guys want to bring up ship stats, alot of that was thoroughly discussed in this thread:
    factpile.com/1962-retribution-class-battleship-vs-super-star-destroyer/#comments

  64. Alpha or Omega November 14, 2014 at 12:03 am -      #164

    “Thr 30 Kt calc comes from the idea Fed ships can’t survive going threw an atmosphere. While ststed in some tech manuals and I think some novels, this is obvious bull ass the origional enterprise was in Earths Atmosphere. As was a bird of prey.”
    /
    Star Trek’s EU is non-canon. Tech manuals and I’m pretty sure novels are a part of EU.
    /
    “The Infinite thing you won’t find. I saw it in a YouTube comment by some raging Trek fanboy. Tried yo say the Death Star superlaser wouldn’t take down the enterprise shields evem with a durect full power hit.”
    /
    If it was he said if it was because of the many universes turning from mass to energy. It’s an outlier.
    If it was from something else, he’s obviously drunk.
    /
    “I realise this and it is a problem. However, both are desribed as the respective crafts peak. And with such a huge difference there is a large buffer space that still makes Wars superior.”
    /
    I don’t think you understand.
    We, in modern day, can reach petawatts with a laser…for about some microseconds. This is literally nothing.
    We need time in order to FIGURE what ENERGY they have. POWER/WATTS are USELESS.
    /
    “Even if the Fed ship produced 790 terra watts a second amd the ISD 7 yotto watts in 30 days, the ISD would still be superior. Yes, I did the math. Double check if you want.”
    /
    Um, you do know that longer time=more energy, not less time=more energy? You can only produce watts via work or joules/seconds.
    790 terawatts a second is 790 terajoules.
    7 yotta watts in 30 days is 18144000 yottajoules
    (This calculation has nothing to do with whatever firepower or shielding Star Wars’ or Star Trek have since 30 days and a second are based on nothing.)
    /
    Show me your math on how you use Star Wars’ yottawatts and Star Trek’s terawatts to get whatever result from the calculation you haven’t shown us yet. Or the timeframe for both which wasn’t given.
    /
    “I’ll admit the high end does seem higher then Wars high end. But not by much. Low end Wars desimates. The lowest calc I’ve ever seen for turbolasrs (that wasn’t fanboy rage) was in the kiloton range. Lowest for Trek weapons is single tons, and that has real evidence supporting it. Most feats but Trek in the megatons for both weapons and shields.”
    /
    Uh, I recall a Legends EU novel quote where they shot turbolasers and all it did was cause a forest fire.
    That’s pretty low end.
    /
    “Most for wars are Gigatons.”
    /
    Actually, most calculations that are recent put Star Wars in the double digit megatons.
    /
    “Wars is no one trick pony, either. With dozens of superweapons of varying destructive power,
    /
    …Species 8472 with 9 common ships, can planet bust. Just nine.
    Sure, Star Wars had a star-busting weapon, but it’s not going to do anything good when you have guys that can jump out of Fluidic space and back.
    /
    “vastly superior fighters and ground forces,”
    /
    Phasers can vaporize people. That’s about 2.99 gigajoules vs the blasters megajoules.
    /
    “better stealth”
    /
    Not going to happen with nanoprobes in a 5 light-year radius.
    /
    “millions of species for various support,”
    /
    Dude, so does Star Trek.
    /
    “abilities like force storm that can engulf galaxies,”
    /
    Wut?
    Galaxy busting or just galactic range?
    I don’t remember galaxy busting from Force Storms.
    /
    “vastly superior robot technology,”
    /
    Where are you getting this?
    /
    “and the Vong Wars has many MANY was to show its superiority.”
    /
    So where is its superiority?

  65. Neon Lord November 14, 2014 at 12:15 am -      #165

    The first issue of the Crimson Empire comics depicts turbo-lasers from a Star Destroyer being unable to mountain-bust even with multiple barrages.

  66. Alpha or Omega November 14, 2014 at 12:41 am -      #166

    “It’s been stated in several sources that a ISD rector is on par with a small star.”
    /
    Watts=/=Joules.
    Watts is a measure of joules per a second.
    /
    “That was after hours of heavy bombardment by millions of asteroids. And not a single ship was lost. Damage, sure. Rather litely. But not lost. Name ne Trek ship that has done that.”
    /
    I think the point of that was to show that the ISD isn’t near what your trying to suggest for ISD.
    /
    “By “entire fleet” do you mean “39 ships, most about fighter size”? Because even shitholes like Tatyoeen get more then that for protection.”
    /
    Fleets put out petatons on high end…
    /
    “They will think of something.”
    /
    That was brought up in Star Wars vs Star Trek.
    Star Wars would have no idea that they would be hit by nanoprobes since it covers a 5 light-year radius.
    It would be too late for them to take significant action.
    Plus, they have not shown a counter to it.
    /
    “Fed armor os desimated by 250 ton mines. Durasteel can survive direct hits from turbolaser fire. Do the math.”
    /
    On the other hand, there were also scans where durasteel has been destroyed by things less than turbolaser.
    Such as the time where a woman dented a durasteel power tool by hitting it on a table.
    Or when two logs crushed an AT-ST
    /
    “I’ll be honest, don’t know how I missed that. But that’s still gives the ISD a one day buffer zone. In the more likely event the yotto second calc is for minutes or even seconds it pretty much gives the ISD the win.”
    /
    Assuming the time frame is given and in favor of Star Wars.
    Which we don’t have.
    /
    “Yeah, that argument goes both ways.”
    /
    I think you’re missing the point that he did mean that both ways in that we don’t have a timeframe.
    /
    “But literally everything in Wars is more efficient then the Trek equal.”
    /
    Other way around. Trek is pretty much superior to Wars.
    /
    “So it makes sense to continue that trend.”
    /
    It doesn’t make sense when you’re basing this on a power-generator, which may not have to do with weaponry but other functions such as moving a larger ship with more energy, and the fact that we’re given watts, not joules.

  67. Jolttra November 14, 2014 at 12:45 am -      #167

    “Actually, most calculations that are recent put Star Wars in the double digit megatons”

    Key word is recent. With most of the EU now considered non canon there isn’t as much to go off of.

    “…Species 8472 with 9 common ships, can planet bust. Just nine.
    Sure, Star Wars had a star-busting weapon, but it’s not going to do anything good when you have guys that can jump out of Fluidic space and back.”

    First they must find planets to destroy. There are trillions in the Wars Galaxy. Second, these ships can be combatted with traditional means and this doesn’t help much in real combat. Third, while ISDs and similar ships can’t destroy a planet by themselves, they can lide wipe. And that’s close enough.

    “Phasers can vaporize people. That’s about 2.99 gigajoules vs the blasters megajoules”

    This helps against AT-Ats, how exactly? No one in Trek has anything bigger then a jeep. They have no heavy weapons or artillery. They don’t even wear armor. They lack ong range weapons like sniper rifles, short range weapons like shotguns and flame projectors, and power weapons like rocket or grenade launchers. It would be a god damn massacre.

    “Galaxy busting or just galactic range?
    I don’t remember galaxy busting from Force Storms.”

    It is stated Sidious’s rms could engulf a galaxy. Also, Luke can control black holes.

    “Where are you getting this?”

    In all of Trek there is one sucessful robot.Data. Entire episodes are dedicated to replicating his success. And he has still gon heywire many times. He is vastly inferior to the millions of specialise Wars droids.

  68. Jolttra November 14, 2014 at 12:48 am -      #168

    “Other way around. Trek is pretty much superior to Wars.”

    Wars has superior medical technology, superior production, superior sublight and ftl speed, superior robotics, superior vehicles, superior design, much greater variety, and a far larger galaxy. It is proven superior in nearly every way.

  69. Aelfinn November 14, 2014 at 1:01 am -      #169

    “Um..Haha, wow. I don’t think you need a calc to know that’s a really, really huge outlier.”

    Yeah. When I ran a calc, google’s calculator couldn’t handle the numbers. Even when I used the maximum amount allowed, I still ended up with something like a googol’s (the number) worth of universes, IIRC.
    =
    =
    “By “entire fleet” do you mean “39 ships, most about fighter size”? Because even shitholes like Tatyoeen get more then that for protection.”

    I mean the Federation’s main fleet. Earth itself was directly under attack.
    =
    “They will think of something.”

    When that nanotechnology can trick the immune system of a creature with tri-helical DNA (indicating a biology vastly different than ours) and can survive deployment in photon torpedoes, let me know. Until then, that’s really nothing more than supposition.
    =
    Here’s the thing: even if every claim you have made is correct, which they are not, the Borg will just take that tech anyway. The Borg can teleport through shields and inject their nanoprobes into a ship directly. They take control of the ship and the ship’s information, assimilate the ship, assimilate the crew members, and if they find the technology superior, which they won’t, they’ll adapt it into the entire Collective. The Borg will then be running around with Star Wars shields and Star Wars Hyperdrives and Star Wars battle strategy and Star Wars Turbolasers, and they’ll have adapted to all of it, which means Star Wars weapons won’t do anything to them. It’s just what they do.

  70. pimpmage November 14, 2014 at 1:04 am -      #170

    Why are just trek ships being sized up against SW? No love for 40k shielding calcs or petaton weaponry?

  71. Aelfinn November 14, 2014 at 1:18 am -      #171

    “Wars has superior medical technology”

    Not really. Star Trek has brought people back from the dead (Voyager…again), while in Revenge of the Sith one of the medical robots had a fucking BIRTHING PADDLE and couldn’t save a women who had “lost the will to live”. Also, if you remember this line from Star Trek IV: “The doctor gave me a pill and I grew a new kidney!”

    In Star Trek, pills = internal organs. Kinda hard to beat that one.
    =
    “superior production”

    Really…only with the World Devastators. And that’s a maybe. Remember, the Borg have “millions of ships”. Star Trek has replicators, which can take any old junk matter, rearrange the molecules, and convert it into any new form of matter they want. Including food.
    =
    “superior sublight”

    Full impulse is almost lightspeed. Kinda hard to have better sublight than that.
    =
    “ftl speed”

    Better travel time, sure. But Star Trek can actually use that FTL in a fight, which Star Wars cannot. Example: the Picard maneuver, where you go to Warp 10 (or close to it) for a split second so it looks like your ship is in two places at once.
    =
    “superior robotics”

    I’ll give you that one. Admittedly, the ship’s AI is superior on Trek vessels, though. It can create sentient holograms, for example.
    =
    “superior vehicles”

    This one, too. Honestly, though, what good are vehicles when a ship could just teleport them all into space?
    =
    “superior design”

    One large exhaust port leading directly to the main reactor begs to differ.
    =
    “much greater variety”

    Not sure how this matters…but sure, I guess. I guess “big triangle ship” and “big ol’ blobby ship” beat out “instantly recognizable and unique design of the Enterprise” and “wonky-ass Romulan bird-looking thing”.
    =
    “a far larger galaxy”

    Uhhh, what? I’m not sure this was ever proven.

  72. Alpha or Omega November 14, 2014 at 1:21 am -      #172

    “Wars has superior medical technology”
    /
    Dude, one of Star Trek Voyager’s best episode showed that they have healed someone’s consciousness from time-displacing chronitron radiation. Star Wars has nothing on that.
    Nevermind that vaporized troops can’t really be healed.
    /
    “superior production,”
    /
    Trek has borg and replicators.
    /
    “superior sublight and ftl speed,”
    /
    Star Trek can fight at ftl. So they had better hit and run.
    Plus, Species 8472 have fluidic space thing going on.
    /
    “superior robotics,”
    /
    No they don’t.
    The Borg beg to defer.
    Plus, no counter to nanotech.
    /
    “superior vehicles,”
    /
    Vehicles, as in ships?
    Nope.
    I don’t know anything about Trek’s land vehicles since I rarely see them. I think they’re hardly used IIRC.
    /
    “superior design,”
    /
    Both of the sci-fi series have horrible designs for pretty much everything in real-life.
    Both a disk shaped starship and a giant triangle with a watch tower on top are terrible.
    /
    “much greater variety,”
    /
    What do you mean by “variety”?
    Weapons?
    Species?
    /
    “and a far larger galaxy.”
    /
    Size doesn’t matter.
    /
    “It is proven superior in nearly every way.”
    /
    Not in firepower, hax, reality warpers, ftl, ship-to-ship combat and nanotech.

  73. Alpha or Omega November 14, 2014 at 1:40 am -      #173

    @Aelfinn
    Wouldn’t cybernetics and nanotech count as robotic tech?

  74. Aelfinn November 14, 2014 at 1:52 am -      #174

    “Wouldn’t cybernetics and nanotech count as robotic tech?”

    I suppose. I was thinking more along the lines of straight-up robots. Sentient robots with fully-functioning emotions are fairly widespread in Star Wars, whereas in Star Trek Data and Lore were the the only androids of their kind, and they didn’t exactly get emotions quite right.
    =
    “Why are just trek ships being sized up against SW? No love for 40k shielding calcs or petaton weaponry?”

    I suppose it comes from the claim that Star Trek can’t do any front-line fighting. Which it can. 40K weapons and shields are very, very good, and no one’s doubting that.

  75. Jolttra November 14, 2014 at 2:12 am -      #175

    “I mean the Federation’s main fleet. Earth itself was directly under attack.”

    Only 30 Fed ships were in that fight. Again, most of them fighter class

    “It’s just what they do.”

    Right. Because as we allknoe the Borg are a totally invincible species that has already conqured the entire Trek galaxy. The Borg are over estimated far too often.

    “Star Trek has replicators, which can take any old junk matter, rearrange the molecules, and convert it into any new form of matter they want. Including food”

    Which is why it took a year to replace 40 ships and several decades to build deep space 9 but less then one year to make about a dozen Super star desroyers.

    “Full impulse is almost lightspeed. Kinda hard to have better sublight than that.”

    Same for Wars, but they stick to higher speed more often.

    “actually use that FTL in a fight, ”

    So can Wars. It’s just not a common tactic.

    “No they don’t.
    The Borg beg to defer.
    Plus, no counter to nanotech.”

    Wars has nanotech, too. They also have two robotic super powers. The Silentium and the Abominors. And they have countless free droid communities. They can actually think and create for themselves and in some areas are given all the same rights as biologicals. They are smart, more specialized, and more capable.

    “Weapons?
    Species?”

    Both I guess. They have way more options.

    “Size doesn’t matter”

    No, but numbers do. And Wars outnumbers Trek by a massive margin

    “Not in firepower, hax, reality warpers, ftl, ship-to-ship combat and nanotech”

    Still debating firepower and ship to ship (if weapobs were equal Wars would still win do to much larger far more heavily armed ships). They have nano tech andhave superior ftl. Reality warpers aren’t in tgis debate, but yes. Wars has no real equal to the Q

    As for Hax, Wars is way better. They have the Force, for one. Already a massive advantage. They have the Yevethan who can master any form of technology almost instently. So they have an effective counter to Borg assimilation. They have the Ssi-ruuki which can harness life energy for power and who created the best droid fighters in all of Wars. They have the SD series droids and the YVH series droids that can axtually heal and reform from sever wounds. They have the Viper-1 droids which absorb any and all energy attacks and then use it to power their own weapons.
    They have species that can survive and even travel through space. And they have Ion Cannons, which can disable ant Trek ship with ease. The only hax Trek has that Wars doesn’t is time travel. But that’s mostly plot related humbug.

    Edit: almost forgot. Does Trek have any real counter to the Vong? Kind of a broken species, really.

  76. Alpha or Omega November 14, 2014 at 3:21 am -      #176

    “Right. Because as we allknoe the Borg are a totally invincible species that has already conqured the entire Trek galaxy. The Borg are over estimated far too often.”
    /
    Aelfinn never said they were invincible. He just pointed out that they are a high-tier in Trek verse.
    /
    “Same for Wars, but they stick to higher speed more often.”
    /
    I don’t recall this.
    /
    “So can Wars. It’s just not a common tactic.”
    /
    Wars cannot do the same thing as Trek though in FTL combat. Such as the Picard maneuver mentioned above.
    /
    “Wars has nanotech, too.”
    /
    They don’t have nanotech to counter nanoprobes as we mention before.
    Plus, it’s not like they’re going to detect it before it’s too late.
    /
    “They also have two robotic super powers. The Silentium and the Abominors. And they have countless free droid communities. They can actually think and create for themselves and in some areas are given all the same rights as biologicals. They are smart, more specialized, and more capable.”
    /
    So what makes them superior to Borg?
    Can they adapt and assimilate similar or better than Borg?
    Or is it because they’re biological, which doesn’t mean much.
    /
    “Both I guess. They have way more options.”
    /
    Maybe weapons, but it’s definitely a no to species seeing as Star Trek has a list of species just like Star Wars.
    /
    “No, but numbers do. And Wars outnumbers Trek by a massive margin”
    /
    Except that Trek also has a ton of species like Wars.
    /
    “Still debating firepower and ship to ship (if weapobs were equal Wars would still win do to much larger far more heavily armed ships).”
    /
    Whats there to debate?
    It’s already shown that Star Trek has teraton and petaton weaponry and that it takes only nine common ships of Species 8472 to planet bust.
    Furthermore, they can attack in FTL and in fluidic space, which Wars has no counter to.
    /
    “They have nano tech andhave superior ftl.”
    /
    They have nanotech, but none to counter the nanoprobes.
    Superior FTL but no way in reaching fluidic space and fighting in FTL.
    /
    “Reality warpers aren’t in tgis debate, but yes. Wars has no real equal to the Q”
    /
    Last time I checked, we were debating this and Star Wars vs Star Trek so Q is thrown in for good measure.
    /
    “As for Hax, Wars is way better. They have the Force, for one. Already a massive advantage”
    /
    But they don’t have time-travel or superweapons that erases beings from all of history.
    /
    “They have the Yevethan who can master any form of technology almost instently. So they have an effective counter to Borg assimilation.”
    /
    On the other hand, there were no feats that put them on the same level as Borg.
    /
    “They have the Ssi-ruuki which can harness life energy for power and who created the best droid fighters in all of Wars. They have the SD series droids and the YVH series droids that can axtually heal and reform from sever wounds.”
    /
    That’s dandy and all, but the phaser isn’t going to sever wounds and the Borg has become resistant to it.
    /
    “They have the Viper-1 droids which absorb any and all energy attacks and then use it to power their own weapons.”
    /
    Not on the same level as teratons to petatons.
    /
    “They have species that can survive and even travel through space. And they have Ion Cannons, which can disable ant Trek ship with ease. ”
    /
    I recall that the Voyager received minor damage from a high level ion storm.
    There’s also the fact that FTL combat allows them to avoid it and there’s Fluidic space for Species 8472.
    There’s also no counter to teleportation that Trek has.
    /
    “almost forgot. Does Trek have any real counter to the Vong? Kind of a broken species, really.”
    /
    Species 8472 and Borg nanoprobes which Wars don’t really have a counter to.

  77. Darth Bombad November 14, 2014 at 3:51 am -      #177

    Can the Borg survive ion weaponry?, because according to Rebels
    they have hand held rifles that can down a starship.
    It’s never said exactly how big of a ship they’re talking about.

    But going by Star Wars colloquialisms they usually reserve that term
    for ships Millennium Falcon sized and above.
    Anything smaller is usually a fighter, bigger its a starcruiser.

  78. Darth Bombad November 14, 2014 at 4:04 am -      #178

    Dammit! ran out of edit time, sorry double post.

    Aelfinn has pretty much said that the Borg are invincible, on other
    threads he’s implied that they can take the Forerunners.
    Because adaptation and assimilation are magic, and work instantly
    even on tech that’s far FAR above and beyond them.

    The Borg are one of the most overestimated and flat out wanked races
    in all of sci-fi, books movies t.v. shows or games.
    Wouldn’t surprise me if Trekies claimed they can take the Time Lords next.

  79. Alpha or Omega November 14, 2014 at 4:35 am -      #179

    “Can the Borg survive ion weaponry?, because according to Rebels
    they have hand held rifles that can down a starship.
    It’s never said exactly how big of a ship they’re talking about.”
    /
    It takes a high level ionic storm to take one out IIRC
    Also, canon Star Wars is significantly less powerful than Legends EU Star Wars and contradicts Legends EU Star Wars.
    /
    “But going by Star Wars colloquialisms they usually reserve that term
    for ships Millennium Falcon sized and above.
    Anything smaller is usually a fighter, bigger its a starcruiser.”
    /
    As pointed out, A Borg cube is better than a fleet and a ship of said fleet can put out teratons.
    /
    “ran out of edit time, sorry double post.”
    /
    It’s alright. It happens to me too.
    /
    “Aelfinn has pretty much said that the Borg are invincible, on other
    threads he’s implied that they can take the Forerunners.
    Because adaptation and assimilation are magic, and work instantly
    even on tech that’s far FAR above and beyond them.”
    /
    Nearly everyone has made this mistake of saying this character/group/race&species/universe is superior to the other despite feats saying otherwise. It doesn’t pertain to just Aelfinn.
    /
    Xornell has once said that Star Wars would be able to defeat The Forerunners which I’m pretty sure that’s not true and thought LoL vs DotA2 to be fair lore wise. This man is a funny and smart man…And lifts.
    Matapiojo thought Kharn would be a match against Superman. This man is also a wise and kind man.
    People have made mistakes.
    /
    “The Borg are one of the most overestimated and flat out wanked races
    in all of sci-fi, books movies t.v. shows or games.”
    /
    *coughhypersonicspessmareenscough*
    …..
    *Coughwithhackingskillsbasedonmathcough*
    /
    “Wouldn’t surprise me if Trekies claimed they can take the Time Lords next.”
    /
    I’m pretty sure the Trekkies that argued that conceded or left the site.

  80. Kara Zor-El November 14, 2014 at 7:51 am -      #180

    “Only 30 Fed ships were in that fight. Again, most of them fighter class”
    _
    Where are you getting this from? The only fighter class ship the Federation have is the Peregrine class , which saw extensive use in the Dominion War but were nowhere to be found against the Borg Incursions, either of them.
    _

    _
    If you could find me a fighter class ship in there I’ll clap my hands. But you won’t. You’ll see Defiant, Saber, Steamrunner, Norway, Akira, Nebula and a Sovereign class. The technical reason you see a ton of the smaller sized vessels is because they’re CG ships created specifially for the movie and that was the only scene to show them off. Still, none of them are fighter classes.
    _
    Which means nothing anyway, considering a phaser strip and photon torpedoes are just as effective and powerful coming from a smaller class ship as they are on a larger class ship. Funny how trek works that way.
    _
    “The Borg are over estimated far too often.”
    _
    Let’s be honest here, the only reason the Federation and other species have repelled the Borg is heavy amounts of PIS. Had the Borg truly wanted to take Earth and the Federation they would have sent a fleet of cubes, of which they have Millions. The only reason the Trek Galaxy isn’t just a Borg galaxy is PIS, and maybe a few godlike beings doing stuff.
    _
    “Full impulse is almost lightspeed. Kinda hard to have better sublight than that.”
    _
    All the sources I have seen put full impulse at around 1/4 lightspeed. Warp 1 is pretty much lightspeed, which has been proven, can be just as handily used to get around.
    _
    “better stealth”
    _
    Better than a perfect cloak that cannot be detected at all by Federation sensors, which are some of the best sensors in all of sci-fi? Even without the Scimitar, most Trek cloaks are incredibly hard to detect.
    _
    The Borg can beam through shields, just think what that tech, given to the rest of Trek would mean. A small runabout finds itself near an ISD. Beams a few torpedoes into the engine room, and no more ISD. There have been many instances of beaming while at warp, so the ship doesn’t even need to enter sub-light speeds to do it.
    _
    Trek has tech to blow up suns, easily and from distance, see ST:Generations. Or using a small suicide run, which could be controlled by autopilot, which was used in DS9. SW has the Suncrusher, Trek can do the same with every vessel it has.
    _
    Transwarp has been proven to be on par with Hyperspace, so FTL speeds are equaled, although Transwarp, like warp, can go anywhere. Then ofc there’s the Quantum Slipstream which is pretty fast, not as fast as Transwarp, but still up there.
    _
    Remember the Force is useless in terms of detecting any of the Trek/Halo/40K team, because they’re not from the SW universe, and as the Vong prove, you need to be from there to have the Force, and the Force can’t detect the Vong. So imagine an army of Changeling assassins with perfect shape-shifting.

  81. Kara Zor-El November 14, 2014 at 8:16 am -      #181

    “Which is why it took a year to replace 40 ships and several decades to build deep space 9 “
    _
    Again, I’m not sure where you’re getting any of your Trek info lol.
    _
    During the Dominion War, one Federation fleet had around 640 ships, while the opposing Cardassian/Dominion fleet had around 1200. The Federation were churning out ships at an increased rate, not nearly as fast as the Dominion however who were more or less replacing ships as they were lost. Which should show that they make more than 40 ships in a year. Just because you don’t see them, doesn’t mean they’re out there.
    _
    Deep Space Nine, or to give it its original name, Terok Nor, was built by the Cardassians not the Federation, it was also built within a 5 year period.

  82. OberHerr November 14, 2014 at 9:50 am -      #182

    The Halo’s would be the perfect counter to the Vong. Would literally wipe out everything they have and them. Plus, Halo’s can be fired in a more focused blast.

  83. the_man_with The_Answers November 14, 2014 at 10:37 am -      #183

    Question. Where do Star Trek Petatons come from? Granted I don’t know a whole lot of specifics about Star Trek, but I do know Petatons is like, an unimaginable amount of energy and from what I do know nothing in Star Trek strikes me as possessing that much disposable firepower.
    -

  84. Shgon Dunstan November 14, 2014 at 10:51 am -      #184

    “So first how are they going to close sw wormhole.”

    Technobabble with a side of even more technobabble.

    It matters less “how”, then just that…

    en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Bajoran_wormhole

    The concept isn’t exactly new to them, and they’ve got months to play with the thing unhindered.

    ” Second why would they cause it would be fastest route to sw”

    It’s also SW’s fastest way to them, and they’d have a lot easier time going the long way then SW would. Which is reason enough on it’s own for them to deny SW such a path to them.

    ” Also it is only composite for sw everybody else is current so wouldn’t halo really be a non factor here compared to wh or st.”

    I have little knowledge of Halo.

    “One other thing is what is current for trek is it jj movies or is it considered the end of their last show”

    Not quite.

    Technically, I’d think it would be the new movies, but… The new movies are an alternate reality to old Spock’s time, which is the old time line a few decades in the future, so… Technically, I’d guess both would be “current incarnation”.

    Luckily ST isn’t a stranger to travel between alternate realities….

    …Wonder how good SW would be at handling galaxy busting supernovas? :lol: (

  85. the_man_with The_Answers November 14, 2014 at 10:57 am -      #185

    For reference, if 4 Petatons hit the ocean on the opposite side of the planet from you, in about 30 minutes you would experience an earthquake of about an 11 in magnitude (1.5 orders of magnitude greater than any earthquake we’ve ever experienced), and a pressure wave would hit about 8 hours after that which would be strong enough to shatter windows and blow down a considerable fraction of trees.

    That’s the effects on the other side of the planet. If you were say, only 700km away, your clothing would spontaneously combust and the pressure wave would be powerful enough to deform vehicles to the point where they wouldn’t be able to function without repair. I just have a hard time seeing Star Trek (or Star Wars) having this kind of firepower. Like, any ship could pop in, fire off a few shots, and completely decimate a rival faction’s capital planet.

  86. IamTaco November 14, 2014 at 11:50 am -      #186

    Basically a bunch of fanboys who have no idea what a outliner is and just picks the highest firepower figure regardless of how retarded it sounds and how much it breaks the setting.

    For example, warhammer has calcs like exaton broadsides for IOM ships and FTL spacemarines. Halo has petaton suitcase nukes and teraton UNSC frigates but nobody sane ever uses them for debates.

    So I have no idea why special treatment is given for the star wars and star trek.

  87. the_man_with The_Answers November 14, 2014 at 12:32 pm -      #187

    “For example, warhammer has calcs like exaton broadsides for IOM ships ”

    Speaking of exatons
    Roughly 9.5 exatons
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc4HL_-VT2Y

    What a similarly sized asteroid did to Mars:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlXuUxFTcLs
    Skip to 15:00

    ~16 Teratons
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vexo1tQ_zMc
    (You will basically spontaneously combust from 200km away in about 3 or 4 seconds after impact)

    This, in total, is somewhere on the scale of high hundreds of megatons to low gigatons:
    www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oe-2slh4njQ

    Neither Star Wars nor Star Trek, at least to me, seem to have that level of firepower. If they did, it would just completely break the settings.

  88. Malenfant November 14, 2014 at 3:29 pm -      #188

    People have claimed the (31st century, still ridiculous) Borg can take the Time Lords. Anyway where’s all of the Halo love? There’s at least three different factions that could solo Star Wars on a good day.

  89. the_man_with The_Answers November 14, 2014 at 3:58 pm -      #189

    “People have claimed the (31st century, still ridiculous) Borg can take the Time Lords. Anyway where’s all of the Halo love? There’s at least three different factions that could solo Star Wars on a good day.”

    Even with Disney canon, I doubt the UNSC and Covenant combined could beat Star Wars. Just too populous, and currently the UNSC and Covenant are not at their prime (The UNSC is technologically-wise, but not population-wise). The Flood could solo, and they are still currently existent, but not really anywhere that anyone knows or can release them. Forerunners could solo, but they aren’t around currently save for one insane military commander and his army of glowy-killbots. Precursors are too ambiguous to even comment on.

    So not really. The UNSC and Covenant combined would put up a decent fight against an arbitrarily chosen Star Wars Disney canon time-period, but not so much a composite of all time periods.

  90. Alpha or Omega November 14, 2014 at 4:24 pm -      #190

    @the man with the answers
    “Question. Where do Star Trek Petatons come from? Granted I don’t know a whole lot of specifics about Star Trek, but I do know Petatons is like, an unimaginable amount of energy and from what I do know nothing in Star Trek strikes me as possessing that much disposable firepower.”
    /
    It was based on Aelfinn’s calc that put a ship in teratons with 30% of the planet’s crust feat and the xindi probe feat. We did state that this is their high end feats and it’s only being used to counter Wars’ high end feat.
    Star Trek’s high end feats are better than Wars’ high end feats as well as having low end feats better than Wars’. low end feats
    It was to point out that Trek is superior to Wars without including 9 common ships from Species 8472 planet busting a planet and the 5 light-year radius nanoprobes for the multi-kinetic neutronic bomb.
    /
    And come on, you know someone was going to throw out biggatons when Star Wars and Star Trek are involved. The high-end feats are only there to counter other high end feats.
    /
    @IamTaco
    “Basically a bunch of fanboys who have no idea what a outliner is and just picks the highest firepower figure regardless of how retarded it sounds and how much it breaks the setting.
    /
    (snip Warhammer 40k and Halo examples)
    /
    So I have no idea why special treatment is given for the star wars and star trek.”
    /
    You better not be talking about me and Aelfinn since we’re only using it to counter Star Wars Legend’s EU high end feats.
    You also do realize that we have admitted it’s high end.
    /
    @Malenfant
    “People have claimed the (31st century, still ridiculous) Borg can take the Time Lords. ”
    /
    Uh, wow.
    Recently? On this site? Man, I didn’t think there would be people stating that the Borg can take the Time Lords.

  91. Malenfant November 14, 2014 at 4:31 pm -      #191

    Precursors are the Flood, currently. From what we do know about them [1], they can create relativistic neural physics structures capable of crushing and subsuming entire solar systems in real time, they’re mooks, moments after transforming into combat forms, can send several hundred kilogram top-of-the-line Spartan II’s reeling with a blow and can eat entire assault rifle clips, are capable of shutting down slipspace travel, fabricated a very contagious virus capable of targeting both organic and synthetic lifeforms, have lived for 100 billion+ years (previously lived in another dimension IIRC).

    The Forerunners have substandard population levels compared to previous times, but they’ve consistently been shown to be effective in small numbers. Like I mentioned earlier, Sentinels were able to destroy the equivalent of a Star Destroyer in short-order, numbering in the thousands. Mere dozens have been shown to shave off the top of mesas within minutes. Run of the mill, standard Forerunner Fortress class ships are closing in on a fifth of the Deathstar’s size. Forerunner FTL is (hundreds of) thousands of times c using low end, and sublight vessels are fast enough to span the distance from Earth to Mars (100 million miles, IIRC) within a few hours.

  92. pimpmage November 14, 2014 at 4:47 pm -      #192

    So I had a friend that read some of the forerunner books. Now I may be recalling this wrong, but he told me that the flood originated from forerunner household pets. Pets were fed stuff that mutates them purposefully, they turn into flood forms. Am I completely wrong here?

  93. Malenfant November 14, 2014 at 5:02 pm -      #193

    No, they originated from the Precursors final act of vengeance after the Forerunner-led holocaust against them (killed Precursors became magical space dust).

  94. the_man_with The_Answers November 14, 2014 at 5:17 pm -      #194

    “Precursors are the Flood,”

    Correction. A single Precursor is the Flood. Precursors exist as what ever they want to exist as. This one was mad that the Forerunners beat out one type of form the Precursors took, so he turned himself into sentient dust that eventually turned into the Flood, and culminated in one massive ploy to save the humans (Precursors being analogous to parents and Forerunners and Humans being their children), who are the favorite child, while also serving up a cold dish of revenge to the Forerunners.

    “So I had a friend that read some of the forerunner books. Now I may be recalling this wrong, but he told me that the flood originated from forerunner household pets. Pets were fed stuff that mutates them purposefully, they turn into flood forms. Am I completely wrong here?”

    Human pets. Basically what I described above. Precursor got mad at Forerunners. Turned himself into dust. Launched dust into Human colonies. Dust had positive effects on human pets. Eventually the dust started to mutate the pets. Pets began to grow fungal looking stuff. Pets began to become aggressive, cannabalistic, and infectious to other pets. Pets became infectious to humans. Infected humans became aggressive, cannabalistic, fungal, and what not. The Flood was born. Humanity fought a war with the Flood. Forerunners start a war with humans because the humans are fleeing the Flood and expanding into Forerunner space. Forerunners start wiping out the Humans. The Flood doesn’t like this, so it stops infecting humanity, making it look like they found a cure when they didn’t. When the Forerunners start to face the Flood and realize humanity found a “cure,” they begin to try and save the now nearly wiped out de-evolved humans in hopes of retrieving the cure from genetic memory. Jokes on them, as there is no cure and the Flood got to wipe out the Forerunners and save Humanity at the same time.

  95. Darth Bombad November 14, 2014 at 7:35 pm -      #195

    Why do people keep using the Xindi probe as a feat?, its a superweapon.
    And it takes a year of hard work to produce enough fuel for a single shot.
    It also requires a component that only the sphere builders can give them.
    They give no indication that the prototype is any simpler or massproduceble.

    That’s in no way a feat, not even a high end one, if it is then Star Wars’s
    high end weapons feat is the Death Star. Which is more believable
    since they actually CAN equip Star Destroyers with a mini DS laser.

    img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111224043011/starwars/images/b/be/Strang_Conqueror.jpg

  96. Aelfinn November 14, 2014 at 9:31 pm -      #196

    @Darth Bombad
    “Aelfinn has pretty much said that the Borg are invincible, on other
    threads he’s implied that they can take the Forerunners.”

    I made that statement with a LOT of qualifiers which you are ignoring here. And most likely because Forerunner weaponry isn’t necessarily better than Trek weaponry, I was working with the idea that the Borg could adapt to it and take their tech.
    =
    “Why do people keep using the Xindi probe as a feat?, its a superweapon.”

    It’s just that that happened centuries before current Trek, and it acts so as to ground the higher-calcs as more than just an outlier. Just think about how humanity’s “superweapons” get outpaced in real-life and what was once unique and devastating becomes everyday and not powerful enough. For example, airplanes were used in warfare for the first time in World War 1, and around 20 years later the United States can drop a bomb that destroys an entire city. Which barely lasts into the next decade, as bombs thousands of times as powerful are then developed in the thousands.
    =
    @TMTWA
    “Neither Star Wars nor Star Trek, at least to me, seem to have that level of firepower. If they did, it would just completely break the settings.”

    What you are describing happened exactly like that in Deep Space 9. The Cardassians and the Romulans sent like, 20 ships to attack the homeworld of the Founders and destroyed 30% of its crust. That requires a shit-ton of energy.

    Now, it doesn’t LOOK that impressive, due in part to the cloud-cover, pulled-back view, and lack of budget, but it still happens, and it’s not like anyone shat their pants at the mention of 30% of the crust being destroyed.
    =
    @Kara
    “All the sources I have seen put full impulse at around 1/4 lightspeed.”

    My mistake.
    =
    =
    You guys want high end?

    That’s the Enterprise surviving an attack used to slice planets into bite-sized chunks, as the Doomsday Machine goes around blowing those planets up to use as fuel.
    =
    =
    But to those who don’t quite grasp the danger of Species 8472.

    -

  97. the_man_with The_Answers November 14, 2014 at 11:10 pm -      #197

    “Now, it doesn’t LOOK that impressive, due in part to the cloud-cover, pulled-back view, and lack of budget, but it still happens, and it’s not like anyone shat their pants at the mention of 30% of the crust being destroyed.”

    Cloud-cover and a pulled back view would have about zero effect on making Petatons look less impressive. Budget would be the only factor there. But at the same time, they only fired a few shots at a lot less than a third of the planet. But 30% of the crust was destroyed within the seconds between the firing and the scanning? The 9.5 Exaton asteroid impact didn’t even accomplish that over the course of 24 hours or even a year. And if you watched that video you’d see just how visually stunning that is. 30% of the crust, we’re talking about an impact akin to the second to last one on this video (I suggest watching all of the video though, some really cool looking impacts, especially the “early Earth vs Jupiter” one.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3kB0Z4HdSo

    I mean, this is a massive case of my suspension of disbelief being broken. The only explanation I could think of is that the planet is drastically smaller than Earth-sized, has very low density crust, and has very thin crust at that. All if which take away from the feat, because that situation (Not only the visuals but also the concept) and what is being described just don’t coexist.

    Now that last video is a lot better.

    It takes about ~3E33 Joules to blow up a planet (Between melting/vaporizing it and overcoming the gravitational binding) the way Species 8472 did. Which is about 720 Zettatons in total. What’s particularly helpful is the time between the charging and the explosion. I’m getting about 18 seconds from the beginning of the charging process to the explosion of the planet. Which comes out to about 40 Zettatons per second. With a total of 9 ships, that’s ~4.5 Zettatons per second being produced by the ship’s weapons.

    Which, is a big fancy number yes, but also breaks the setting pretty hard core IMO. We’re talking about the energy produced in one second far and beyond that required to, literally, knock the crust off of Mars.

    Which only continues to further my negative opinion towards biggatons of all shapes and sizes. Like, it get’s pretty hard for me to believe in any common-place or non “one-off” firepower exceeding double to low triple digit megatons. It’s just really hard for a setting to accurately depict any faction that casual has that firepower on its ships without them constantly using only 0.000001% of their weapons power 99.999999% of the time, regardless of how useful cranking the dial up to even 0.0001% would be.

  98. FezzesRCool11 November 15, 2014 at 2:36 am -      #198

    @the_man_with The_Answers
    Now, I agree with you. Ridiculous measurements are ridiculous. Even still, a feat is a feat, your personal dislike of throwing around prefixes is irrelevant to the feat itself.

    The debate seems to be reverting back to ST vs SW, so I would like to attempt to divert it.

    ST can collapse wormholes, that has been stated many times on the show. Also, just how far away from the planets themselves are the wormhole entrances?

    This may have been brought up before, but if Force=Warp, then does that mean that Force users can randomly have heads pop or whatever. Actually, if everyone in the SW universe is connected to the Force, does that mean that the Warp could affect everyone in SW, cause that would be devastating. If what I mentioned before doesn’t apply, then excuse the shoe in my mouth.

    How does a Battle Barge compare to a Star Destroyer, or even a Super Star Destroyer? Also, is there only one World Engine, as if this is current Warhammer 40k and stuff, the one World Engine we have seen is destroyed, if memory serves.

    See, this is the problem with using WH40K, Since it is from the perspective of the IoM and not a general view describing each race in as much detail as the other, so we know almost nothing about races other than Humanity.

  99. pimpmage November 15, 2014 at 3:29 am -      #199

    I am still wondering if halo races can pass through this wormhole while in slipspace. Also, can 40k ships pass through the wormhole while in the warp?

  100. Aelfinn November 15, 2014 at 3:50 am -      #200

    “Cloud-cover and a pulled back view would have about zero effect on making Petatons look less impressive. Budget would be the only factor there. But at the same time, they only fired a few shots at a lot less than a third of the planet. But 30% of the crust was destroyed within the seconds between the firing and the scanning? The 9.5 Exaton asteroid impact didn’t even accomplish that over the course of 24 hours or even a year.”

    Alright, perhaps an explanation on the calc is in order. “Petatons” comes from the calculated melting of the planet’s crust. Their computer estimates were based on them melting through the mantle, so I assumed something similar was happening to the crust. I only converted the energy required for such a feat into “tons of TNT equivalent” for the sake of our understanding. Energy is energy, but explosions and melting would look differently.

    Also, they say it right there in the darn show that 30% of the crust is destroyed, regardless of what the animators decided looked appropriate or the limited amount of the planet we see, so canon statements take a little precedent over what an outside viewer may feel is appropriate.
    =
    “The only explanation I could think of is that the planet is drastically smaller than Earth-sized, has very low density crust, and has very thin crust at that. ”

    We know this is not the case as we have seen characters walk on that planet’s surface and interact with earth-like materials under earth-like gravity.
    =
    “Which only continues to further my negative opinion towards biggatons of all shapes and sizes.”

    Well, what exactly do you want me to tell you? Sure, I agree that a lot of time the “biggatons” are incorrect because there is clearly something the creators implied that we ignore. But if the creators literally come out and say “30% of the crust was destroyed” or “9 ships can destroy a planet”…that’s canon, and no one’s displeasure at that fact makes it any less so.
    =
    =
    ” Even still, a feat is a feat, your personal dislike of throwing around prefixes is irrelevant to the feat itself.

    The debate seems to be reverting back to ST vs SW, so I would like to attempt to divert it.”

    Good points, man I do not know. I’ll try to avoid ST vs. SW if I can.

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