Vex Vs Geth

Vex Vs Geth

Suggested by PSN Toxiic18

For this fight we have the Vex from Destiny facing off against the Geth from the Mass Effect Franchise.

The Vex can use all of their abilities.
The Geth can use all variants from ME1-ME3 and they have the Individual intelligence they recieve in ME3.

Which side wins?

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99 Comments on "Vex Vs Geth"

  1. Rookie October 27, 2014 at 6:58 am -      #1

    Numbers, info about abilities, ships, armor, weapons and feats for Vex?
    For now I am with Geth, cause they had the largest fleet in ME, aside from Reapers:

  2. Ragnorke October 27, 2014 at 7:00 am -      #2

    The Geth had the largest fleet in the Mass Effect series, and were pretty much stomping until Shepard PiS and the Reaper business showed up.
    So there’s that.

  3. Warlock Lowk October 27, 2014 at 7:19 am -      #3

    Gonna go with Geth for now.
    Vex have an enitre planet but no ships. I’m still waiting to see how gpod thier time travel hax is outside the vault.

  4. Rookie October 27, 2014 at 7:22 am -      #4

    @Warlock Lowk

    “Vex have an enitre planet but no ships.”

    Well… that’s bad. But if this true it still not too late to turn this match into land battle only.

  5. Warlock Lowk October 27, 2014 at 7:23 am -      #5

    “Shepard PiS”

    A bioware protagonist’s best superpower for conflict resolution.

  6. toxic18 October 27, 2014 at 7:47 am -      #6

    Quotes from your ghosts in Destiny “The Vex have seen hundreds of worlds taken from the darkness.” The vex have been around for millions of years, and keep in mine they can teleport between planets as long as they have a spire connected to a conflux somewhere on that planet. And keep in mind that they show evidence of time travel.

  7. toxic18 October 27, 2014 at 7:48 am -      #7

    But the Geth have a individual intelligence and intense hacking abilities. They also can build consensus when they are in proximity of each other. And can use orbital strike methods from their ships. Something the Vex can’t do

  8. God Of Godzilla October 27, 2014 at 8:07 am -      #8

    “time travel hax”

    So the Vex are futuristic terminators?

  9. toxic18 October 27, 2014 at 8:33 am -      #9

    “The Vex are architects of ancient and complex structures, buried under every celestial body.” -The Vex Grimoire

  10. Tsubodai October 27, 2014 at 8:49 am -      #10

    I was so pissed off by how little the geth counted for on the war assets meter compared to how strong they’re supposed to be lorewise. Yeah, the geth fleets are terrifyingly powerful – they walk all over the humans, turians, and quarians (barring Xen’s stupid garbage-data tactic which doesn’t work post-reaper upgrade anyway). Very few one-planet civilizations would have a hope.

  11. MonkeyKingMahir October 27, 2014 at 8:57 am -      #11

    Anyone seeing toxiic18 posts I can’t

  12. OberHerr October 27, 2014 at 9:21 am -      #12

    The Vault of Glass was going to be used to rewrite time so the Vex were gods. Basically, Gorgons being able to do stuff anywhere. I’m going with the Vex.

  13. toxic18 October 27, 2014 at 9:44 am -      #13

    As much as I want the Geth to win. The Vex are really powerful

  14. Ciridae Hunter October 27, 2014 at 11:52 am -      #14

    The Geth can quickly replenish their numbers since they are all inorganic life forms-are the Vex organic? Breeding rates?

    The Geth have advanced weaponry well beyond most of the races in ME-hell, they ARE advanced weapons with shields that even the Mako has a hard time of piercing and many of them are much more durable than the average Vex and the Hopper units prove that they can also be much more mobile.

    Barring planetary bombardment, the Vex would be hard-pressed to beat the Geth; if the Geth can turn some of the Vex into Husks, then the Vex would have an even harder time of beating them.

    I haven’t played Destiny but the Vex aren’t SkyNet weapons-they have never shown to be much of a challenge (I have watched friends and professional gamers play so I can say that much is true).

  15. Ciridae Hunter October 27, 2014 at 11:53 am -      #15

    Is Destiny a game worth buying or is it just good graphics and a subpar story? I am not sure whether I should buy it or not.

  16. the_man_with The_Answers October 27, 2014 at 1:17 pm -      #16

    “Is Destiny a game worth buying or is it just good graphics and a subpar story? I am not sure whether I should buy it or not.”

    The shadowy outline of a story, mediocre multiplayer, excellent gameplay mechanics, a cruel RNG, and lots of grinding for gear and grinding away at boss enemies, or enemies in general if you are under-leveled. A good game, maybe a 7 in my mind. Worth $60? Maybe if you’re into the sort of game Destiny is. Otherwise I’d say $40 or less is the price point you should get it at when the price starts coming down.

  17. Private Khaos October 27, 2014 at 2:55 pm -      #17

    “Is Destiny a game worth buying or is it just good graphics and a subpar story? I am not sure whether I should buy it or not.”

    Me personally, I had a lot of fun playing with my friends. I spent one Saturday playing for 7 hours straight and it was so worth it. Destiny is the kind of game where you get the most out of it when you play with friends. As a single player experience it’s alright

  18. Warlock Lowk October 27, 2014 at 4:36 pm -      #18

    “The Vault of Glass was going to be used to rewrite time so the Vex were gods. Basically, Gorgons being able to do stuff anywhere. I’m going with the Vex.”

    But they hadn’t been able to accomplish that level. Orbital bombarbments fucks over the place.
    ===
    “The Vex are architects of ancient and complex structures, buried under every celestial body.” -The Vex Grimoire”

    And Geth don’t need planets meaning the can do what most ME race fear. Fuck up a planet.
    None of it will really hurt the geth, they bulid and live in space.
    ===
    Like I mentioned we should wait and see how well thier hax can be outside of the vault. Otherwise Geth stomp in the air. Or Geth can’t beat them on the ground because vault of glass…
    Well they did have bombs that would’ve destroyed eden prime’s colony so idunno.

  19. toxic18 October 27, 2014 at 5:36 pm -      #19

    Don’t forget that the Geth have Kinetic Shields. These block anything with mass like the Thermal clips used in the game. The Vex use Direct Energy weapons that form Accretion Singularities when fired

  20. BigBand45 October 27, 2014 at 9:44 pm -      #20

    What exactly can the vex do?

  21. MonkeyKingMahir October 29, 2014 at 8:03 am -      #21

    They can pull forces from different times and its said they conquer worlds within hour turning the world itself into a machine (as the ghost stated don’t know if it was meant literally) the vault of glass was the hardest mission in the game in which has already been stated above that they were trying to rewrite time, also stated above they use direct energy weapons so the kinetic shields which block anything with mass will now work while the shields of the vex can only be easily bypassed with viod damage weapons or else the shield will have resistance to it and I have been informed that even in mass effect the geth use arc damage weapons (correct me if I’m wrong) so getting passed the vex’s shields will be a hassle in itself and toxxiic u should turn this into a ground only battle seeing as how no specs are ever giving for vex ships at all

  22. MonkeyKingMahir October 29, 2014 at 8:08 am -      #22

    @Citidae hunter
    The vex are semi organic i believe and I don’t believe breeding rates are given but the pull forces from different times so practically infinite considering time goes on forever and its said they travel with the darkness and the darkness gas consumes the universe besides the planets the guardians are defending in game

  23. Warlock Lowk October 29, 2014 at 1:02 pm -      #23

    “game in which has already been stated above that they were trying to rewrite time”

    In one spot. A spot that can be nuked.
    =
    “also stated above they use direct energy weapons so the kinetic shields which block anything with mass will now work”

    Iirc only the slap rifle is. That work using solar damage ie heat. Don’t think heat is going to be as effective on inorganics as it os on organics.
    On top of that they can put down energy barriers which can be used as cover.
    =
    “while the shields of the vex can only be easily bypassed with viod damage weapons or else the shield will have resistance to it and I have been informed that even in mass effect the geth use arc damage weapons (correct me if I’m wrong)”

    Only the shotgun, smg, and minigun could be considered arc but thats only part of the type of damage they do. They still create powerful impacts when they hit either through exploding or being pieces of hyper accelerated pieces of metal.
    Their other weapons. Rifles is a mass accelerator that fires phasic slugs to get through shields. They work well against biotic shields which work similar to what the void energy uses.
    They’ve also got exploding energy bolts.
    Also in close range geth juggs can absorb energy so that should help against minotaurs.

    Besides that most vex units don’t have void shields.

  24. Epicazeroth October 29, 2014 at 4:53 pm -      #24

    OK. This is a long post; just warning you.
    ===
    A list of types of Geth. Keep in mind that they can use other types of weapons (for example, if Vex weapons happen to be preferable) but standard issue is what’s listed here. Anyway:

    Geth Armatures – Light walkers capable of launching Geth siege pulses (anti-vehicle level firepower). Also possesses machine-guns, heavy armour, and shields. There’s also a stronger type called the Colossus, which can self-heal.

    Geth Destroyer – Equipped with Geth Pulse Shotguns and strong shielding. Specialised for close quarters combat. They can also be equipped with flamethrowers or rocket launchers.

    Geth Dropship – Geth frigates that also serve as troop transports and close air support. Extremely resilient against ground vehicle fire, though fairly vulnerable to fire from other frigates and cruisers.

    Geth Hopper – Cyberwarfare and ambush platforms, capable of sabotage, overload, and radar jamming. Attacks using the Geth sniper beam. Lightly shielded.

    Geth Hunter – Stealth troops armed with shotguns and shielding. They possess tactical cloaking devices.

    Geth Prime – Elite Geth units equipped with heavy weaponry. They possess very strong shields, heavy armor, tech abilities and are extremely resilient. They also improve combat skills of nearby Geth and are capable of jamming radar.

    Geth Juggernaut – Similar to Geth Primes. Equipped with Geth Pulse Rifles and able to launch distortion rockets. They can also deploy shield barriers as cover and launch defense turrets. Heavily shielded and very resilient. Can drain energy at a range of 10-20 feet to restore their own shields – this disintegrates the victim.

    Geth Pyro – Geth units that are highly dangerous in close quarters. Equipped with flamethrowers, shielding and heavy armor. Very slow and harmless at distance, but highly resilient and deadly in close range.

    Geth Rocket Trooper – Anti-armor/anti-air infantry. Equipped with rocket launchers and shielding.

    Geth Shock Trooper – Advanced Geth Troopers armed with the Geth Pulse Rifle and Geth Barriers.

    Geth Sniper – Armed with Geth Sniper Rifles and shielding. Capable of assassination, specialised for long-range combat. Capable of jamming radar.

    Geth Trooper – Standard geth troops equipped with Geth Pulse Rifles, Geth Barriers, and capable of recharging shields via the Geth Shield Boost ability.
    ––
    And then there are the ships, which I won’t get into right now.
    ==
    Geth weapons include:

    Pulse Rifle: Fires high-energy slugs encased in a Phasic envelope. Phasic means it’s surrounded by electricity and a Mass Effect field. High, variable rate of fire; extremely high accuracy and no recoil.

    Plasma SMG: Fires superconducting toroids which ionize the surrounding air, turning it to plasma. Releases heat and electricity on impact. Extremely high rate of fire.

    Plasma Shotgun: Fires clusters of superconducting toroids. Same effect as the SMG rounds. Can also be charged to inflict much more damage. Rounds have basic tracking capability (they curve slightly towards the enemy).

    Spitfire: Also fires superconducting toroids that do the same thing as the SMG and Shotgun. Extremely high rate of fire, and extremely powerful.

    Javelin: Fires a jet of pressurized, superheated liquid metal. Extremely powerful shots – can pierce over one meter on their own. Comes with a thermal scope.
    ====
    ====
    @Lowk: “Don’t think heat is going to be as effective on inorganics as it os on organics.”
    Actually, heat is more effective against ME shields. But it’s not very effective against the Geth platforms themselves.

    “Only the shotgun, smg, and minigun could be considered arc”
    It would likely be considered Arc, Solar, and Kinetic. Except for the Javelin, Geth weapons all produce kinetic, thermal, and electrical energy on impact. The Javelin produces only kinetic and thermal energy – but in very large amounts.

    They do have pure electrical weapons in ME1, but based on the info from later games, this would only account for around 5% of their forces for this match.
    ===
    ===
    And lastly, I don’t know if anyone’s said this already, but killing Geth units is fairly useless. They can just upload their memories into a collective consciousness and retain any knowledge. Of course, with the AI Upgrades they have from ME3, they would likely be less apathetic towards dying; they can still upload their memories should any of the platforms be lost.

  25. toxic18 October 29, 2014 at 7:53 pm -      #25

    Let’s just say the Geth do Arc damage as that seems most appropriate considering their weapons an the color of bullets(which is how destiny classifies ammunition) and can someone post all Vex units and weapons in detail please to keep this fair

  26. Epicazeroth October 29, 2014 at 9:03 pm -      #26

    @toxic: “Let’s just say the Geth do Arc damage”
    Why? They clearly don’t. I just provided sources for them being able to deal all types of damage. That’s not even getting into Ammo Upgrades which give additional types of damage.

    “that seems most appropriate considering their weapons”
    Not really. Plasma would be Solar if anything, but their weapons aren’t that simple. They would be mainly Solar and Kinetic, with Arc and Void to a lesser extent.

    “an the color of bullets(which is how destiny classifies ammunition)”
    Really? That’s your reason? Without even getting into the fact that this is heavy game mechanics, Mass Effect doesn’t classify ammo types by color. But it’s irrelevant anyway, because

    “can someone post all Vex units and weapons in detail please to keep this fair”
    1) Vex units have less info, and I’m not sure there is a list of Vex weapons. You’d have to already know which weapons are Vex in order to make a list. With the obvious exception of the Mythoclast, because that has “Vex” in the name.
    2) Many of the Vex units have built-in weapons anyway.
    3) Somebody should post sources, you’re right. But “fairness” has nothing to do with it.

  27. toxic18 October 29, 2014 at 9:34 pm -      #27

    All Geth weapons do Kinetic damage. Mentioning it as an ammo type is unnecessary. Just because it’s plasma doesn’t make it solar damage. The arc grenades in destiny say they are plasma explosives yet they don’t do solar damage. You’re over thinking this. I understand where you are coming from by saying a plasma should be a solar damage weapon but no game ever has ever classified plasma as being a fire based damage component. (Please site any if there is) in all games alike plasma weapons have arc like properties. Even the Geth weapons. You have to agree that Geth weapons most definitely have an arc feel to them. But you insist they have both. I state they have an arc feel to them but yet no Geth weapon shows any evidence of using any properties of arc. As a matter of fact the only guns in that game that use arc damage are the guns that have the name arc in them. Arc Projector being an N7 gun and Arc Pistol being a Quarian weapon. And even the Reeger Carbine if you are trying to look for one that hard. Named after the tough Kal’ Reeger. Damn I love that guy. Solar damage makes sense but like I said no game has ever classified plasma weapons having a solar or fire based property. There’s also disruptor ammo but last time I checked the Geth don’t use ammo upgrades. Now since I am no longer busy allow me to do the honors

    The Vex are architects of ancient and complex structures thought to be buried within every celestial body. Linked by a network unlike any on Earth, they operate in unison, directed by a single unfathomable purpose.

    Goblin
    “All their joints turning together. Moving together. Towards you.”

    The Goblin is the basic unit in the vast computational network that is the Vex. Shattering the large, fan-shaped head does not seem to cause lasting damage but sends the Goblin into a crackling frenzy.

    Hobgoblin
    “The air by my cheek twanged twice, stinking of ozone, before I saw it.”

    Specialized for sniping, this lean, tough Vex model is fitted with improved optics and acute sensors in its horns. Like the Goblin, the Hobgoblin contains a milky radiolarian fluid.

    Attacking a Hobgoblin often triggers a defensive reflex – the Hobgoblin seals itself in stasis and waits for help.

    Harpy
    “It swam back and forth through the air, spinning, the single red eye looking – I realized – for me.”

    The fastest and most mobile Vex, the Harpy is an airborne unit often deployed in flocks on patrols and scouting missions. They must stop and stabilize before attacking.

    Minotaur
    “I thought it was at a safe distance. I was wrong.”

    Minotaurs pack brutal heat, but most of their processing power is devoted to the physics of building massive Vex complexes, suspected to extend through multiple dimensions. Minotaur models are thicker and harder to crack than any other bipedal Vex, and they use their teleportation capability aggressively.

    Hydra
    “Our shots dissolved in the translucent matrix around it, useless.”

    The Hydra is a miniature fortress. Despite its physical slowness, it is a rapid processor of the data fed to it by other Vex, and what it lacks in mobility it makes up for in impregnable defenses and rock-melting firepower.

    Hezen Corrective
    We understand the Vex as a network of thoughts, unified and vast. But not all Vex are the same. The Hezen Corrective is one example of a Vex subtype, set apart from other Vex by distinct behaviors and objectives.

    Swarming across the Ishtar Sink, these Vex aggressively seek out and attack the Fallen House of Winter, perform inscrutable operations around shining Confluxes, and even show interest in the Golden Age ruins left by the Ishtar Collective.

    The bulk of our contact with Vex forces on Venus has involved the Corrective. Those scholars willing to risk their reputations speculating about the Vex often assert that the Corrective is an agent of change, designed to solve problems and remake the world in a form suitable to the Vex. Others contend that Corrective is simply a strategic distraction – meant to draw attention away from the actions of the Hezen Protective.

    Hezen Protective
    The mysterious Hezen Protective is the second major Vex behavioral unit on Venus. Concentrated around the legendary Vault of Glass and the Endless Steps, the site of a massive Vex gate and the access point to the towering Citadel, the Protective’s behavior seems very defensive.

    But leading Cryptarchs and experienced Guardians warn that it would be a fatal mistake to think of the Vex as a conventional military occupying an area. Vex behavior is always a process, active and purposeful. The Protective is clearly engaged in a colossal project, but as with much Vex behavior, it’s unclear whether their ultimate purpose is even comprehensible to us. The Protective may be reacting to an event that has yet to occur, or working towards a goal that – to us – is already historical fact.

    Virgo Prohibition
    Mars is wracked by an ongoing theater-level conflict between the Cabal and a Vex subtype known as the Virgo Prohibition. These aggressive, relentless Vex constantly test the Cabal exclusion zone, apparently heedless of losses.

    In spite of the Vex onslaught, the Cabal have managed to expand its beachhead and maintain a hold on several mysterious Vex structures. The Prohibition’s tactics seem to be failing in the short run.

    But it seems unlikely that an organization with the sheer computational scope of the Vex could be dragged into a losing war of attrition. Is it possible that the Vex are trying to draw out the Cabal strength? Or that their surface losses are a distraction from a deeper strategic ploy?

    Ikora Rey has proposed that the Vex units can best be understood as algorithms – each a unique mapping of inputs to behavioral responses. Perhaps the Virgo Prohibition is simply the wrong algorithm for its environment, and its failure will drive the greater Vex network to adapt and improve.

    Sol Divisive
    Beyond the towering Meridian Bay gate lies the Black Garden, adrift in time and space. And within the Garden dwell the Vex of the Sol Divisive, frozen in rapture.

    We have precious little insight into the Divisive’s behavior. They seem central to Vex actions in the solar system: the Garden is clearly a place of enormous power.

    Legends and scant field reports all indicate that the Divisive Vex behave religiously. Why would a hyperintelligent, time-spanning thought mesh exhibit religious behavior? The answer seems as obvious as it is chilling: if the Vex found worship and devotion more effective than any other behavior, they would adopt worship. Whatever the Vex found – or made – in the Garden, it transcends even their power.

    Precursors
    Sol Primeval

    Those who delve deep into the Vault of Glass have seen time itself torn asunder. Awestruck Ghosts report encounters with ancient Vex, their casings built long before the age of humanity.

    It would be easy to assume these Vex are the ancestors of those we face today – but with the Vex it is never so simple.

    Descendants
    Sol Imminent

    Survivors of the Vault of Glass report sightings of ancient Vex – ancient in the sense that they have endured for eons. Convergent analysis from multiple Ghosts suggests that these Vex exist in our future.

    If the Vex exist in our future – or in a possible future – should we take this as evidence that their defeat is impractical or unattainable? The Guardian Vanguard is quick to point out that time travel remains a mystery, and that the continued existence of the Vex is not remotely a sure indication of humanity’s extinction.

    Slap Rifle
    From a tactical perspective, the Slap Rifle is a Vex directed-energy weapon that fills their analog of the light infantry role. From an engineering perspective it’s something much more interesting: a terminal. The Slap Rifle receives a bolt of Solar energy from somewhere (or somewhen) else and it points it at a target.

    The terminal’s flexibility is impressive. In non-combat conditions, the Slap Rifle seems like it might serve as a viable field transmitter, construction tool, navigational beacon, network repeater, or any of a number of other utility functions.

    Line Rifle
    The Vex Line Rifle fires high-velocity Solar particle jets. Deployed on the Hobgoblin chassis, the Line Rifle serves as a sniper weapon, pinning down targets or delivering the killing blow.

    Like the Slap Rifle, the Line Rifle is a terminal weapon, although its source is much more energetic. Some believe the weapon pulls material from the accretion disk of a galactic singularity. This would imply the Vex are near – or have already achieved – access to a terrifying range of civilization-killing weapons. Others consider this unlikely, and propose that the Line Rifle simply draws from a central Vex power supply.

    Torch Hammer
    The Torch Hammer is a devastating Vex heavy weapon. Firing projectiles of strange matter, the Hammer mauls targets with exotic particle decay and deadly radiation.

    Slap Grenade
    The Vex use Slap Grenades to drive targets out into the open. These devices behave more like miniaturized gates than conventional explosives, channeling a Void energy pulse from a remote location.

    Cyclops
    The Cyclops is a huge, stationary Vex construct with a powerful Void weapon. Guardians think of Cyclops as gun platforms – batteries installed to protect key points with devastating mortar fire.

    But some evidence suggests that the Cyclops is in fact an enormous sensor or beacon, and that its weapons capabilities are secondary. What the Cyclops senses remains unknown, although its mind core is vast. It may play a role in the Vex networked intelligence, or in navigation across space and time.

    A damaged Cyclops can be forced into a state of punch-drunk confusion, its inputs overwhelmed by hostile fire. This can result in fratricidal kills on other Vex units.

    The Gorgons
    Deep in the Vault of Glass, the fabric of reality bends to the will of the Vex. Warlocks speak in tones of awe of the Gorgons – creatures that seem to possess a dreaded, almost unimaginable strength: an ontological weapon.

    Like the Oracles and the Templar, the Gorgons reputedly possess the ability to define what is and is not real. Whatever they perceive becomes subject to erasure at their will. Until a countermeasure can be found, Guardians must avoid their gaze at all costs – or reply to any detection with immediate, overwhelming force.

    The Gorgons’ ability must be tied to the nature of the Vault of Glass. We can take some solace in the clear fact that the Vex cannot manifest this power in the world outside.

    The Templar
    Even among the Axis Minds, the Templar is extraordinary. Fragmentary glimpses and scattered reports suggest a Hydra of impossible capabilities – a creature out of time.

    The Templar and the Oracles guard the way into the deeper Vault. Legends say that the Oracles foresee what is to come, a world as the Vex desire it – and that the Templar has the power to shape reality to match the Oracles’ design, expunging any threats. The power of the Vault flows through the Templar. It will take something extraordinary to shatter its shield.

    Atheon, Time’s Conflux
    To speak of Atheon is to accept certain limitations. We are ill-equipped to understand an entity that defies simple causality. Let us accept these limitations and proceed. Atheon waits in the Vault of Glass. Just as Atheon sidesteps “past” and “future”, it is impossible to say whether Atheon created the Vault or the Vault created Atheon. Causal pathways converge on Atheon from every axis in the space-time bulk. Atheon has a function. We hazard that it regulates and oversees the Vex conflux system. What are these confluxes? How do they relate to the physical Vex network that has devoured so much of Mercury and Venus? We might guess that the Vex confluxes represent the extension of this network across space and time. Perhaps the Vex use closed timelike curves to solve unfathomable computations. Or the Vex may seek to transcend a physical substrate, and move their thoughts directly into the fundament of the universe. If physics is a set of rules that the cosmos uses to calculate itself, perhaps the Vex seek to worm their way into these calculations: to become a law of reality, inseparable from existence. A virus in the system. Perhaps Atheon was the centerpiece of this project, a command nexus that unified efforts across time. But we must accept that all of this is speculation.

    Source: www.destinypedia.com/Grimoire/Enemies

  28. Warlock Lowk October 29, 2014 at 11:34 pm -      #28

    “The arc grenades in destiny say they are plasma explosives yet they don’t do solar damage.”

    What arc grenade? I know of the arcbolt grenade that emits lightning. But that’s a type of plasma.
    ===
    “Even the Geth weapons. You have to agree that Geth weapons most definitely have an arc feel to them. But you insist they have both.”

    Don’t know about fire but it’s differently heat invovled.
    Spitfire
    The gun’s punishing, automatic blasts impact with the heat of a cutting torch.
    Plasma Shotgun
    As the rounds hit the target, they fragment and electricity arcs between the pieces, flash-converting the air to conductive plasma. The resulting impact, heat, and electrical charge overloads shields and barriers and causes massive trauma to unarmored targets.

    Electrical damage. I.E. “arc” in destiny; is just one part of the type of damage Geth weapons put out. They also do extreme heat and Kinetic. In fact the only electrical type coming from them is more of a by product of what the ammo does to create intense heat.

    Disregarding that they have at least 3 units capable of using actual fire for what it’s worth.
    On top of that almost any geth apart of n7 ops would have had been able to get hands or at least eyes on a acolyte pistol which mean they could replicate it and have a weapon that’s more effective against void shields.
    ===
    Just so were are all clear
    Solar-fire/heat
    Void-gravity/darkmatter
    Arc-electrical
    ===
    Regardless a lot of the Vex force don’t have void shields. And Geth still currently have the edge on anti infantry vehicles(Or well not vehicles, big Geth, whatever).
    While a good deal of Vex’s hax and big guns are limited to specific place… time? Place time?

  29. Ciridae Hunter October 30, 2014 at 1:17 am -      #29

    Guys, life would be so much easier for you if you just took Occam’s Razor to the plasma thing.

    Plasma is produced using energy but does not use electric discharge to inflict damage; instead, it relies upon thermal energy to make the hurt happen-much like how the modern Plasma Arc operates in industrial applications. In many cases of sci-fi literature, plasma weapons can produce kinetic energy using ME methods.

    Plasma is thermal and kinetic, is what should be taken from this.

  30. Ciridae Hunter October 30, 2014 at 1:20 am -      #30

    And guys-try to split longer posts into two or more; posts that go on for paragraphs or a fifteen minute sentence are the reason why Twitter made a character count for posts.

  31. the_man_with The_Answers October 30, 2014 at 2:30 am -      #31

    Vex were fighting the Cabal on Mars, and not making too much progress. The Cabal seemed to have the entrance to the Black Garden locked down pretty well, which is essentially the Vex “capital” if you want to call it that. The Cabal, not seeming to really have a massive presence compared to what the Geth can field. Not to mention the Geth can leverage advantages like orbital strikes, a capability neither the Vex nor Cabal have really shown.

  32. toxic18 October 30, 2014 at 4:43 am -      #32

    The Cabal are born to fight. It is said they blow up celestial bodies for getting in their way. They seem like roid raged Krogan. If you play the Dust Palace strike mission at the last part you can see Cabal Ships in the back round. That looks like a full on invasion and the Vex can easily hold off against that. The limited amount of battles in the patrol areas of the maps is probably because the game couldn’t handle more characters on the map.

  33. MonkeyKingMahir October 30, 2014 at 8:22 am -      #33

    Also I know not all vex have the shield but the important ones do such as the ones that mass up which are the harpies and the one that do damage such as the minotaurs and other versions of them, also how would the geth know to make void damage based weapons they will probably just use there usually weapons as stated above are arc solar and kinetic which would be resisted by the shield also toxiic can u make this a ground only battle if not geth win anyways considering no feats at all are giving for the space travel, combat ablilities

  34. toxic18 October 30, 2014 at 8:35 am -      #34

    It would be a ground battle as the Vex mainly live underground or in other dimensions in time. I think you are all forgetting the fact that the Vex can time travel. Vex confluxes and time gates exist on millions of worlds. This is stated in the game very clearly. It is also stated that they have been around for millions of years. That’s a lot more than the short 296 years give or take that the Geth have been around. This means the Vex have numerous more units than the Geth and could simply overrun them. They Geth are much more intelligent but the Vex are simply more powerful. In order to eradicate the Vex the Geth would have to travel on every planet they are on, destroy all time gates and destroy all Vex on the planet. That isn’t enough time before the planet becomes one enormous time gate. The Vex transform planets to huge machine planets. It took them a couple of days to turn Mercury into a machine. The Vex can also teleport. The Geth can only activate a tactical cloak which only some units have. Imagine the flanking maneuvers pulled off by the Vex in that scenario. Also you point out that not all Vex have shields. The same goes for the Geth. All Geth troopers don’t have shields, along with Geth recon drones and assault drones. Most of the other Geth units do have shields which is true but they are very limited. To take out the Vex would be an impossible task for them. They simply don’t have the numbers. The Geth are only located in the Terminus Systems. Not only that it’s like the smallest fraction of the Terminus Systems. Their biggest bulk is in the Perseus Veil. While the Vex are all around the Galaxy hiding under worlds and hiding in different dimensions.

  35. toxic18 October 30, 2014 at 8:36 am -      #35

    It would be a ground battle as the Vex mainly live underground or in other dimensions in time. I think you are all forgetting the fact that the Vex can time travel. Vex confluxes and time gates exist on millions of worlds. This is stated in the game very clearly. It is also stated that they have been around for millions of years. That’s a lot more than the short 296 years give or take that the Geth have been around. This means the Vex have numerous more units than the Geth and could simply overrun them. They Geth are much more intelligent but the Vex are simply more powerful. In order to eradicate the Vex the Geth would have to travel on every planet they are on, destroy all time gates and destroy all Vex on the planet. That isn’t enough time before the planet becomes one enormous time gate. The Vex transform planets to huge machine planets. It took them a couple of days to turn Mercury into a machine. The Vex can also teleport. The Geth can only activate a tactical cloak which only some units have. Imagine the flanking maneuvers pulled off by the Vex in that scenario. Also you point out that not all Vex have shields. The same goes for the Geth. All Geth troopers don’t have shields, along with Geth recon drones and assault drones. Most of the other Geth units do have shields which is true but they are very limited. To take out the Vex would be an impossible task for them. They simply don’t have the numbers. The Geth are only located in the Terminus Systems. Not only that it’s like the smallest fraction of the Terminus Systems. Their biggest bulk is in the Perseus Veil. While the Vex are all around the Galaxy hiding in different dimensions

  36. toxic18 October 30, 2014 at 9:08 am -      #36

    Sorry for the duplicate post

  37. Epicazeroth October 30, 2014 at 11:27 am -      #37

    @toxic: Do you have, you know, proof for the number of Vex units?

    Also, everything in ME has shields. Some are just stronger. Not all Geth have stronger-than-normal Shields, but they all have Shields of some kind.

  38. toxic18 October 30, 2014 at 11:42 am -      #38

    They say there are millions of units in the game.

  39. Warlock Lowk October 30, 2014 at 11:49 am -      #39

    “Also I know not all vex have the shield but the important ones do such as the ones that mass up which are the harpies and the one that do damage such as the minotaurs and other versions of them”

    Last I checked. Of the harpies that had shields, were actually arc based.
    ===
    “also how would the geth know to make void damage based weapons”

    As of ME3 Geth are no longer limited to there own weapons. As for why, Geth like to study others. Of they notice vex are using a shield with similar traits to biotic why wouldn’t they?
    ===
    “This means the Vex have numerous more units than the Geth and could simply overrun them. ”

    How does being around longer mean more numerous?
    United states is younger then united kingdom. US has the lager population.

    ===
     “In order to eradicate the Vex the Geth would have to travel on every planet they are on, destroy all time gates and destroy all Vex on the planet. That isn’t enough time before the planet becomes one enormous time gate.”

    Geth possess nuke levels of firepower and can rain down shots every few seconds. They build bombs that can take out colonies. They can take out the surface resistance the send in troop underground to take anything else with bombs.
    ===
    “The Vex can also teleport. The Geth can only activate a tactical cloak which only some units have. Imagine the flanking maneuvers pulled off by the Vex in that scenario.”

    The method they use to teleport into combat is very noticable. In there short teleport aren’t very long. Besides that Geth have sensors.
    They teleport behind the Geth’ll should know. Doesn’t help there tactics involve teleporting in mid range and shooting. Except for the Minos who rather get up in your face. They don’t really seem as sneaky as teleporters like prometheans.
    ===
    “The same goes for the Geth. All Geth troopers don’t have shields, along with Geth recon drones and assault drones.”

    I’m not sure how it was before since difficulty rating would dictate what didn’t have shielding. But as of ME3 have geth have shields. Even the troopers. They can also see thrpugh walls.
    ===
    “To take out the Vex would be an impossible task for them.”

    Well as of current the only real means they have of surviving is hiding out, Which I pretty sure counts as a loss .
    On top of tha As of ME3 each of the millions of geth programs is now thier own AI. They chill out in the depths of space while sending others to fight. Until Vex get a better means of travel they wont be able to get at them.
    Meanwhile Geth have the means of getting to them unless they hide out. Even then its shown that certian units can act as keys to get into those places. Gate Lords don’t seem to have shields.

  40. Epicazeroth October 30, 2014 at 1:17 pm -      #40

    Also, one Geth Dreadnought ripped through an entire Quarian attack fleet – but that’s not unusual for a ME Dread. The unusual part is that it was tanking shots from the entire fleet – including Liveships with firepower in the high double-digit kilotons – without being damaged beyond one docking port being blown out. It was incapacitated, but I’m pretty sure that was because of something else.

  41. GMoney October 30, 2014 at 1:23 pm -      #41

    @toxic18
    Since when do the Vex have millions of worlds? Can you give us a direct quote on this?

  42. toxic18 October 30, 2014 at 4:24 pm -      #42

    The Vex Description “They arrive in the solar system via warp gates, likely from another time in the past or future.”

    “it is thought that their structures are buried within every known celestial body and linked together in a massive trans-dimensional and trans-temporal network, ostensibly with the goal of inextricably incorporating the Vex into the fabric of the universe itself”

    “On Mars, the Vex wage an intense war with the Cabal, who manage to repel the machines despite the vast numbers of them that continually assault Cabal positions.”

    Source: www.destinypedia.com

  43. Epicazeroth October 30, 2014 at 4:56 pm -      #43

    That doesn’t give numbers. In fact, it gives nothing useful about the Vex at all.

  44. toxic18 October 30, 2014 at 4:58 pm -      #44

    Maybe you should re read it and actually use your head this time

  45. Epicazeroth October 30, 2014 at 7:34 pm -      #45

    Literally the only thing that helps in those quotes is: “the vast numbers”. That can mean anything from several hundred at a time to tens of thousands at a time.

    The rest is infrastructure, which doesn’t help in this match.

  46. GMoney October 30, 2014 at 8:25 pm -      #46

    “The Vex Description “They arrive in the solar system via warp gates, likely from another time in the past or future.”
    “it is thought that their structures are buried within every known celestial body and linked together in a massive trans-dimensional and trans-temporal network, ostensibly with the goal of inextricably incorporating the Vex into the fabric of the universe itself”
    “On Mars, the Vex wage an intense war with the Cabal, who manage to repel the machines despite the vast numbers of them that continually assault Cabal positions.”
    Source: www.destinypedia.com”

    1) in-universe speculation shouldn’t be taken any more seriously than out-of-universe speculation so The warp gates aren’t on every planet until we are given evidence that they are.

    2) “vast numbers” is a completely subjective term. Rome had what was considered a “vast” population in ancient times but now 100,000 isn’t that much for a city’s population. Additionally, if they truly did have the numbers you think they do then the entire setting of Destiny would be completely irrelevant and they would sweep Mars easily, which they haven’t done.

  47. Warlock Lowk October 30, 2014 at 8:49 pm -      #47

    “The vex share one mind across a million units!”
    -Ghost dialogue: The Ishtar Collective Mission

  48. GMoney October 30, 2014 at 9:05 pm -      #48

    ““The vex share one mind across a million units!”
    -Ghost dialogue: The Ishtar Collective Mission”

    So the Vex have 1 million men? If so that’s a win for the Geth, who have the biggest military in ME will be able to swarm them. Or, you know, just slag Mars from orbit with their 5,000-10,000 ship strong fleet.

  49. toxic18 October 30, 2014 at 9:23 pm -      #49

    “So the Vex have 1 million men? If so that’s a win for the Geth, who have the biggest military in ME will be able to swarm them. Or, you know, just slag Mars from orbit with their 5,000-10,000 ship strong fleet”

    Oh yeah it’s not like the Vex aren’t on any other planets. Or it’s not like any of them are in different dimensions. Ya know Geth just be sure to bombard Proto-Venus while you’re at it.

  50. GMoney October 30, 2014 at 9:27 pm -      #50

    “Oh yeah it’s not like the Vex aren’t on any other planets. Or it’s not like any of them are in different dimensions. Ya know Geth just be sure to bombard Proto-Venus while you’re at it.”

    It’s irrelevant if they are on different planets, it just slows their inevitable defeat via orbital bombardment, because they’ve never been shown to have a fleet. As for the Vex in different dimensions, that would be a BFR because the Geth have no way of reaching them and the Vex can only harm the Geth if they leave the other dimensions.

  51. toxic18 October 30, 2014 at 9:30 pm -      #51

    If the Vex start losing they’ll retreat through the timegate and literally re write history in their favor. Also if 6 Guardians can infiltrate the Vault of Glass and go through different dimensions. Why can’t an army of a Geth? Good luck sneaking past Gorgons there Primes lmao

  52. GMoney October 30, 2014 at 9:42 pm -      #52

    “If the Vex start losing they’ll retreat through the timegate and literally re write history in their favor. Also if 6 Guardians can infiltrate the Vault of Glass and go through different dimensions. Why can’t an army of a Geth? Good luck sneaking past Gorgons there Primes lmao”

    When have they re-written history? That sure would be a useful tool against the other races. Also, even if they can rewrite history, what are they going to do with it? They can’t go back before the starting of the match so killing the Geth off when they were weak isn’t an option, and what knowledge granted by time travel will help them in the war?

  53. Warlock Lowk October 30, 2014 at 9:54 pm -      #53

    “If the Vex start losing they’ll retreat through the timegate and literally re-write history in their favor.”

    And do what exactly? There currently aren’t any ships for the Vex so they can’t reach or find the Geth stronghold. And they don’t seem to have any overwhelming advantage over the Geth to play on.
    ===
    “Why can’t an army of a Geth? Good luck sneaking past Gorgons there Primes lmao”

    Invisibility works on them. Geth have units capable of going invisible.

  54. OberHerr October 31, 2014 at 1:05 am -      #54

    Invisibility doesn’t work. Its one of the often first tried things in the VoG that fails instantly…

  55. Warlock Lowk October 31, 2014 at 1:21 am -      #55

    @Ober
    Was it patched? Because from what I’ve been seeing.
    support.bungie.com/en-us/Forum/Post/72544315/1/1
    www.gamefaqs.com/boards/716732-destiny/70231725
    youtu.be/aUXh3tc_mW0?t=2m54s
    It did.

  56. OberHerr October 31, 2014 at 1:38 am -      #56

    What the hell? We had three hunters try that in our group to them failing. Huh. I stand corrected. Maybe I’ll find a use for Patience and Time in the VoG after all.

  57. Epicazeroth October 31, 2014 at 2:06 am -      #57

    @toxic: “Also if 6 Guardians can infiltrate the Vault of Glass and go through different dimensions. Why can’t an army of a Geth?”
    …You realize, this is bad for your side, right? Because if 6 Guardians can get through the Vex’s most heavily-guarded structure – and you’re implying that Geth could past as well – won’t the Vex kinda, you know, lose? Horribly?
    ===
    @Lowk: “Geth have units capable of going invisible.”
    ME invisibility isn’t really that great. Then again, neither is Destiny’s, so it might even out.

  58. Warlock Lowk October 31, 2014 at 2:28 am -      #58

    “ME invisibility isn’t really that great.”

    To be fair in cutscenes cloaked people tend to be pretty much unseeable. Kasumi actually suprised me once in on of the citadel group events.

  59. MonkeyKingMahir October 31, 2014 at 5:57 am -      #59

    The gorgons don’t see they use radar and that’s what those high pitch pings are and they react to sound pretty much if your going to have invisible hunters do it they can’t run or shoot or jump just walk until they are a safe distance, also I can’t find the quote right now I don’t have time but in game the ghost states the vex have seen millions of worlds taken from the darkness and they are direct agents of the datkness

  60. Ciridae Hunter October 31, 2014 at 6:28 am -      #60

    That still doesn’t give a clear definition of their numbers-especially since they are time-travelers; the same thing could be said about Doctor Who seeing millions of planets made and destroyed but there is never more than three incarnations together at a time-and that is because time paradoxes are resolved through the imminent deaths of those incarnates; by drawing from the Vex populations across time and space could change their history catastrophically to the point where they might cause their own extinction.

    The Geth, however, are Here and Now-they have millions of units and gigantic fleets under their control, whereas the Vex don’t even have defined troops in Cabal lore; the phrase “it is thought” is like digging a grave and using the shovel to bash your own argument’s head in-a good argument speculation does not make. To be fair, that is entirely the fault of the producers of the game for trying to make the Elite/Geth/SkyNet hybrids oh so mysterious, but I can no longer sit by and see speculative defensive lines against the downfall of the Vex.

    Also, sorry that this post is so long.

  61. toxic18 October 31, 2014 at 7:24 am -      #61

    “Or, you know, just slag Mars from orbit with their 5,000-10,000 ship strong fleet.”

    Since when do The Geth have 5,000 – 10,000 ships. And millions of units? Where are your sources on this. The cutscene on the first post shows 500-1,000 ships at best.

    And how has Re writing time helped the Vex? It helps them all the time. In Destiny the Game the Vex think they are winning. Which they are. The reality you exist in is the reality they made. And how could they get to their planet. Well if they are losing that badly I’m sure a learning machine could calculate the Geth’s one home system on Rannoch and go back in time and stash a conflux on there. How would they get there? A: read how they get to other planets I posted it on here already feel free to look at it again. They are integrated into the universe it self. They can warp to other planets. What’s the need for ships when instead of RELYING on Mass Relays to go from system to system you can just warp anywhere and at any time you want. The Cabal aren’t on Mars specifically for the Vex and the Vex aren’t there to fight Cabal. They are there for their own reason Cabal(Mars’s Moon resources) Vex(Black Garden). They are at war because they are in each other’s noses. That’s why there aren’t any full scale invasions.

    Look, I personally like The Geth more than The Vex. But when it comes to power it has to go to The Vex. They literally are being supported by Gods.

  62. MonkeyKingMahir October 31, 2014 at 7:41 am -      #62

    Their numbers are never diffined but if they van call reinforcements from different times and dimensions considering time goes on for every and the theory that state there are different dimensions says there are an infinite amount of dimensions you could use common sense and say they have an infinite amount or unit and considering 1 guardian is probably equivalent to Hundreds of thousands of vex

  63. Ciridae Hunter October 31, 2014 at 7:48 am -      #63

    They are supported by flawed time travel rules, not by the gods-since when did the gods say “Well, fuck-we can help you out” and give them powers beyond belief? The Cabal are less advanced than the Geth, and their lore specifically states that they beat the Vex despite the Vex having a much higher ratio of soldiers versus the Cabal troops. Where were the gods then? Just because they saw millions of planets claimed by the darkness does not mean that they caused it-Suns die all the time and supernova half a solar system by default. They could have easily wiped out the Cabal over and over if they had the power to do so, yet the Cabal are still alive and well. The gods are overly sympathetic, I guess.

    Geth are machines, so they needn’t worry about cramped quarters since they don’t care anyways, so a ship half the size of the High Charity (that was the Council’s ship in ME, right?) could very well house Geth in ways similar to the droids in the Phantom Menace carriers-this is speculation, of course, so it shouldn’t be taken as fact; however, the Geth ships are like America’s ships: make ’em big and give ’em big guns. Each ship is built using Geth technology which-as I pointed out-is much more advanced than that of the Cabal (which kicked the Vex’s collective asses back in the ether).

    You cannot ignore the fact that the Cabal repel supposedly smarter, stronger, more equipped, and supposedly infinitely-numerous Vex because they aren’t a part of the match; they are a part of Vex lore, much like how King Henry VIII had a large codpiece on his armor because his dick was sensitive-it cannot be ignored because it is embarrassing to know or convenient to ignore, because that history is a part of their lore and-in all honesty-is more reliable then some AI made by humans (flawed beings cannot create perfection, after all) or speculations made by lesser races.

  64. MonkeyKingMahir October 31, 2014 at 7:55 am -      #64

    If you could post the source that states that the cabal are beating the be because supposed when we went to mars one of the mission descriptive states we stepped into the middle of the war between them so it was never over and no one was winning

  65. Ciridae Hunter October 31, 2014 at 8:08 am -      #65

    The It’s been mentioned several times in previous posts, oh MonkeyKingMahir, ruler of the Realms of Anellor and the Plains of Karchâk and High Priest of the Order of Night (that is your title, Mahir-bear it with humility and pride).

    I know how they move across space, but-like I said *cough cough*-taking Vex from different points in time could mean changing history to the point where they cause their own extinction; for the sake of example, let us say that the Vex are attacking a planet populated by Tribbles (you know the fluffy things from Star Trek) but suddenly-in the middle of the final offensive (bear with the hilarity of it), the Vex are called to fight another race deemed more dangerous than the Tribbles. The Tribbles, unbeknownst to the Vex, gather their few broken survivors and evolve over thousands of years of vengeance-driven development, transforming into Hyper-Tribbles that can eat galaxies using artificial black holes. The Hyper-Tribbles then consume the entire universe in order to wipe out the Vex.

    That is one probability that is almost certainty in an interrupted time stream. Even the Doctor is careful(-ish) when he fucks with time since he knows more than anyone that even a single event could alter history (seen with the founding of Torchwood, as explained by the Butterfly Effect).

    No one cares how the Vex get from world to world since the Geth ships are capable of mass bombardment and troop deployment, anyway. Sure, they might nick a ship or two using conventional Vex firearms but unless they have ships or can jump like hell, then the ships alone will obliterate any arriving Vex.

  66. MonkeyKingMahir October 31, 2014 at 8:14 am -      #66

    Considering its not only time but dimensions how.and each dimensions has a different possibility one must be that the vex have eradicated all life forms but themselves so they could easily pull from that dimension or one where they are even more advance one where they have fleets of giant vex ships obviously I know this can’t be proven but considering there are and.infinite amount of dimension and an infinite amount of possibilities. For each dimension its a pretty high possibility and I do where that title with the pride of a god

  67. Ciridae Hunter October 31, 2014 at 8:26 am -      #67

    By that logic, oh MonkeyKingMahir, ruler of the Realms of Anellor and the Plains of Karchâk, High Priest of the Order of Night and Guardian of the Shard of Veils (your title just got more badass), then there could exist a single dimension where there exists only that one dimension, throwing all dimensions into a paradoxical loop which sends all dimensions into oblivion.

    I explained the essence of time-travel with the Hyper-Tribbles, and drawing from other dimensions could prove more fatal to the universe as a whole, so for the collective good of the Vex its existing numbers and instant planetary travel acrost the Galaxy…although only speculation can be offered towards their numbers; for all you know, the same Vex that saw the millions of planets be destroyed could have been just a few thousand watching like sadistic voyeuristic rapscallions who get their pleasure modules buzzing watching planets die. Or it could be just one using time-travel like Bender (which also ended badly, as you may recall the Paradox Correction Loop or whatever they call it).

  68. MonkeyKingMahir October 31, 2014 at 8:32 am -      #68

    This is my last post for a bit rest of my teachers don’t like phones but with the logic you just stated can’t be true there certain rules not even different dimension can bypass like gravity and such things like that so no one dimension could be cut off from all other dimensions considering in the theory I states they are all on the same plane of reality

  69. Ciridae Hunter October 31, 2014 at 8:51 am -      #69

    You forget that in those dimensions the rules that apply in one might not affect them all; it could be an Earth with low-gravity, Hyper-Tribble afros and cross-dressers who don’t realize they aren’t actually cross-dressing; it is entirely feasible that one dimension might exist outside of dimensional rules or boundaries and invading that dimension through synthetic pathways might lead to oblivion (like trying to use the Boxes of Orden to free the Keeper from the Underworld). Unless there are plausible, applicable assets that the Vex can use, then they are just the one Bender unit using himself time and time again.

    Another paradox which has been ignored is what I call the SkyNet Paradox-also seen in Futurama-in which parties from the future or past are sent through time to alter history. If they succeed, then the events which required them to traverse time and space become nonexistent, which makes the need to travel through time also nonexistent; since the need is removed, there is never an existing reason to alter history and thus no one is ever sent, causing a loop in the space/time continuum where the event that the parties are trying to stop happens anyway.

    So I am afraid that we are Borg and your resistance is futile.

    Come to think of it, they would be a good math for the Vex as well.

  70. MonkeyKingMahir October 31, 2014 at 9:02 am -      #70

    The less gravity and different thoughts about cross dressing aren’t universal laws there can’t be less gravity just because it has to occur with probable cause the theory that small planetatesimal crash into earth was made of a less dense material there for the planet was less dense all together creating an environment with less gravity

  71. Ciridae Hunter October 31, 2014 at 9:10 am -      #71

    Then all probabilities cannot be expressed, contradicting your statement that an infinite number of possibilities exist within the infinite dimensional planes.

  72. MonkeyKingMahir October 31, 2014 at 9:20 am -      #72

    All possibilities relevant to reality can exist on the same plane of reality

  73. Ciridae Hunter October 31, 2014 at 9:33 am -      #73

    But what if reality isn’t the same in a different dimension? Then the relevance of one reality might never coincide with another. Reality is a subjective term since no one person can truly grasp what reality actually is in every given dimension, so saying that all dimensions and all probabilities must follow strict realities of a singular dimension is asinine to consider.

    I’ll try to think of a more badass, kingly title for you later, Mahir; its time for this insomniac to take his Valium.

  74. MonkeyKingMahir October 31, 2014 at 10:08 am -      #74

    That’s the thing the different realities that coexist are on the same plane of reality so same rules for reality itself

  75. toxic18 October 31, 2014 at 10:19 am -      #75

    Let’s get back on topic

  76. Epicazeroth October 31, 2014 at 11:25 am -      #76

    @Lowk: “To be fair in cutscenes cloaked people tend to be pretty much unseeable. Kasumi actually suprised me once in on of the citadel group events.”
    Are there other instances? Because Kasumi is supposed to have the best stealth tech in the galaxy. It’s not really fair to use her.
    ===
    @toxic: The Geth are stated to have the same number of ships and units as the Turians. The Turians have a military of several tens of millions at the absolute least – but every civilian is also a soldier, so they really have a military in the double-digit billions.

    Also, the fleet the Geth have at Rannoch was stated to have 5-10 thousand.
    ===
    And why are we talking about the minutiae of alternate dimensions?

  77. toxic18 October 31, 2014 at 12:09 pm -      #77

    “The Geth are stated to have the same number of ships and units as the Turians. The Turians have a military of several tens of millions at the absolute least – but every civilian is also a soldier, so they really have a military in the double-digit billions.” When is that said? I researched and found no such information. Can you show me a site?

  78. Warlock Lowk October 31, 2014 at 12:45 pm -      #78

    “The gorgons don’t see they use radar and that’s what those high pitch pings are and they react to sound pretty much if your going to have invisible hunters do it they can’t run or shoot or jump just walk until they are a safe distance”

    the video I posted shows otherwise. Nevermind one of the best tactics being to jump up on rock to avoid them. If they did use radar it not to good and has miniscule range.
    ===
    ” Destiny the Game the Vex think they are winning. Which they are. The reality you exist in is the reality they made.”

    Proof of this. Becuase we’ve been taking out stuff like there worst units and even killed part of something they prayed to. And it was fairly easy.
    ===
    “I’m sure a learning machine could calculate the Geth’s one home system on Rannoch and go back in time and stash a conflux on there.”

    One, they can’t go past the beginning of the match.
    Two, Rannoch is the quarian home, geth were just keeping it safe for them. They live on stations. True some orbit rannock but some are way out in nowhere. Like the heretic station.
    Three, confluxes seem to take a bit of time to construct so theres that obstacle they’d need to get over.
    ===
    Speaking on the heretic station.
    Population
    6.6 million copies of Geth.
    2.4 million platform.
    ^That is only from one station. From a small faction that was only around 5% of the race.
    They have twice as many units then the vex are stated to have. And thats only using a splinter faction.
    ===
    “What’s the need for ships when instead of RELYING on Mass Relays to go from system to system you can just warp anywhere and at any time you want.”

    Because Geth don’t live on planets. Vex hop from planet to planet. They currently don’t have mean of flight to reach the Geth bases because they operate from stations.
    Besides that ships make for good weapons platforms.
    ===
    ” They literally are being supported by Gods.”

    One, outside help rule.
    Two, I hope they show more of their “gods” becuase that last story boss fight was just weaksauce.

  79. MonkeyKingMahir October 31, 2014 at 1:07 pm -      #79

    One as stated above if you read above you would realize that the vex have an infinite amount of combatants and also I’m pretty sure toxiic already turned this into a ground match

  80. Warlock Lowk October 31, 2014 at 1:22 pm -      #80

    “One as stated above if you read above you would realize that the vex have an infinite amount of combatants”

    I saw the part where you and toxic were going of of a theory. Give me proof of these infinite Vex.
    Also keep in mind geth build new bodies when one is destroyed. New vex could come from another time but the Geth could have rebuilt there losses. Essentially turning into an never ending war.
    ===
    “also I’m pretty sure toxiic already turned this into a ground match”

    Still does explian how the Vex are getting from planet to Geth bases. Ships can still be used as transport and inner atmosphere air support. They are just Giant Geth after all. Or are you saying we are taking away a peice of the geth’s race, bases, and mode of transport? But we’re just gonna leave in Vex’s mode of transpotation and time travel and have them completely unhindered?

  81. Warlock Lowk October 31, 2014 at 1:33 pm -      #81

    As for the Cabal handling the vex read the virgo prohibition grimoire entry. They are keeping them at bay. Cabal aren’t a quasi-immortal bunch of robots capable of rebuilding there forces like Geth.

  82. GMoney October 31, 2014 at 1:51 pm -      #82

    “Since when do The Geth have 5,000 – 10,000 ships. And millions of units? Where are your sources on this. The cutscene on the first post shows 500-1,000 ships at best.”

    My source is the Mass Effect wiki, which is taken directly from the codex in the game. It also says that the Geth have the ability to make even more stuff and as long as they have raw materials they can keep producing new units until they can practically Zerg rush the Vex.

    “And how has Re writing time helped the Vex? It helps them all the time. In Destiny the Game the Vex think they are winning. Which they are. The reality you exist in is the reality they made. And how could they get to their planet. Well if they are losing that badly I’m sure a learning machine could calculate the Geth’s one home system on Rannoch and go back in time and stash a conflux on there.”

    Ok, so that gives us a traveling medium but you still haven’t SHOWN (key word) the Vex rewriting history on their favor, which would be a huge help against the Guardians and The Traveler. And I’ve played the game and never seen or heard that the Vex created this reality. Do you have a source for this? As for the learning Machine thing, how are they getting to Rannoch and setting it up without being blown away by the vastly superior Goth forces? And even if they do attack Rannoch who cares? The Geth are completely self sufficient without planets anyway.

    “How would they get there? A: read how they get to other planets I posted it on here already feel free to look at it again. They are integrated into the universe it self. They can warp to other planets. What’s the need for ships when instead of RELYING on Mass Relays to go from system to system you can just warp anywhere and at any time you want.”

    Ships are needed for space superiority. Having space superiority in most Sci-Fi universes lets you bombard the crap out of enemy positions pinning them down and then sweeping them away with your land forces. Because the Vex have no ships the Geth will be able to blast them away any time they show their faces above ground.

    “The Cabal aren’t on Mars specifically for the Vex and the Vex aren’t there to fight Cabal. They are there for their own reason Cabal(Mars’s Moon resources) Vex(Black Garden). They are at war because they are in each other’s noses. That’s why there aren’t any full scale invasions.”

    That’s not proof of the Vex’s numbers. If they truly did have the numbers you say they do it would be easy for them to sweep away any resistance and take the Black Garden, and considering they haven’t done that I’m inclined to believe that they are facing resistance from the Cabal that they have yet to overcome which with the numbers you say they have they could do easily.

  83. toxic18 October 31, 2014 at 2:02 pm -      #83

    Please quote the line in the codex.

  84. Ciridae Hunter October 31, 2014 at 3:21 pm -      #84

    Sorry Mahir and I kinda got on the topic since the Vex are supposedely able to travel to different times and dimensions to get more troops, so really we were on topic just not one that was really match-oriented.

    “Best size estimates on a single geth fleet (the one around Charoum to be specific) range from 5,000 to 10,000 ships with unknown armament. These fleets include dreadnoughts, dropships, cruisers, and fighters.”

    “Since the geth are not limited by the demands for rest, wages, or autonomy that organic workforces require, they are limited only by time and raw materials in what they can construct, allowing for the creation of such massive fleets.”

    “Despite preferring stealth and cutting edge technology to neutralize their enemies, the geth are extremely numerous, and are well capable of building a much larger force than they have. They have massive fleets and the largest infantry corps in the galaxy.”

    Here are a few things from the Wiki that help with gaguing Geth’s initial numbers; more quotes can be found of Geth using raw resources to repair themselves-like Legion using Shepard’s armor to repair itself-in a battle, so deactivated Geth are really just repair tools for them.

  85. Ciridae Hunter October 31, 2014 at 3:25 pm -      #85

    You all realize that the Geth never really used Rannock as a home world since they prefer deep space stations and asteroids in order to collect data and resources, only going there when the Quarians found a set and decided to push into the Verge.

  86. Ciridae Hunter October 31, 2014 at 4:21 pm -      #86

    Hold the photonic resonance chamber-did someone ask for PROOF of Geth numbers? This is freaking hilarious-here you are, advocating for Vex numbers without proof and you have the sheer gall to ask for proof of Geth numbers? Hypocrisy is only useful in politics, so if you would check your hypocrisy at the door we would all appreciate it (well, at least those of us that use facts in BankGambling-emphasis on the fact in BankGambling- and not myth and lore speculation).

    For a very rough underestimate of Geth numbers, see the Turian force codex entries for details.

    Ships have to be allowed since those are Geth units as well-just bigger and rather hollow on the inside.

  87. toxic18 October 31, 2014 at 4:34 pm -      #87

    We already established Vex units above. Feel free to read the comment history as it is clear you aren’t. Instead of being insulting you could actually make your self look respectable and bring up some valid points instead of running in blind like a ME fanboy which is pretty clear in this situation. Just because the Geth are cooler doesn’t allow them to bypass questions

  88. Ciridae Hunter October 31, 2014 at 4:47 pm -      #88

    Actually, you yourself said that all Geth Variants are allowed, so ships have to stay based on your own guidelines, Toxic-also, one million is hardly enough to stop the Geth seeing as how a mere SIX people are able to wreak havoc in the Vex’s strongest base, so I’m afraid that the Geth forces will be fully-operational when your Vex arrive.

    Only Legion is cool since he is snide and logical at the same time-the rest aren’t as cool as the Zealot-Class/Geth hybrids (Vex heads remind me of Elite Zealots)

    Valid points? You mean like the things your arguments are lacking like clear definition of forces, technology, and culture? Those have all been provided already for the Geth, whereas a million is the only real quote we get of Vex numbers-and that is from a human-made AI (all AI uses show them to be flawed in Sci-Fi) and everything else apart from default weapons are speculation and myth-should I expect Zeus to join the fight as well? Maybe useThor going drag as Freya to infiltrate the Geth like the Frost Giants?

  89. Ciridae Hunter October 31, 2014 at 4:53 pm -      #89

    Also, how do you know I am a male? I could be a female, a hemaphrodite-hell, I could be the AI Watson like the one used in Jeapordy (awesome episode, if you haven’t seen it-though Watson made the weirdest bets during Double/Final Jeapordy) for all you know.

    Besides, who are you to argue for valid points when the whole Vex argument is merely speculation? Unless you offer things other than MYTH to substantiate your case, then I must be inclined to remain sided with the Geth.

  90. Ciridae Hunter October 31, 2014 at 5:01 pm -      #90

    I am a fan of ME 1 and 2 (3’s ending had less options than the dating sims in anime so I was a little irritated by the black-and-white feel of its conclusion) but I am open to expanding my horizons with playing Destiny and seeing for myself just how tough the Vex can be (still not certain about it since I like good single player as well as seamless multiplayer and the impression I am getting from people on this debate floor is that single player is kinda “meh” in terms of quality.

  91. Epicazeroth October 31, 2014 at 5:59 pm -      #91

    @Ciridae: Ships are always included unless it specifically states a ground-only match.

  92. Ciridae Hunter October 31, 2014 at 6:34 pm -      #92

    I know-Toxic, despite his own rules, was trying to exclude ship units.

  93. AreNamesNeeded November 1, 2014 at 10:22 pm -      #93

    I’d give this to the Geth, based simply on what we see in the games. The Geth have a HUGE fleet, and don’t actually “die”, because each Geth unit is full of multiple Geth programs (individual minds, so to speak), and when a Geth unit is destroyed, they are merely uploaded into a nearby Geth unit or whatever, ready to be rebuilt at some point. Thus, they retain knowledge, and would most likely not make the same mistake twice. They have a large variety of forms, and because of the scenario, each one is incredibly intelligent.

    While the Vex are shown to be pretty powerful as well, they aren’t shown to have any spacecraft ( probably due to the whole teleportation/time travel thing they have going on here). They are also shown to swarm the enemy with large numbers, and so they might win ground engagements in a numbers game. And the fact that they have their own dimension where they are constructed/bred (They are part organic, right?) means that the Geth would be hard pressed to find a way to stop new Vex reinforcements from being made. However, the Geth would most likely resort to orbital bombardment and the like, because we never actually see or hear of any Vex ships, thus making it pretty easy to just shoot from orbit.

  94. Secrecy27 November 2, 2014 at 12:05 am -      #94

    This may cover some old and resolved thing, and sorry if that is the case.
    =
    Actually, heat is more effective against ME shields. But it’s not very effective against the Geth platforms themselves.

    In gameplay, flames is not effective against shields and barriers, but work just fine against the moblie platforms (geth). Don’t think there is any lore that contradicts this.
    =
    And lastly, I don’t know if anyone’s said this already, but killing Geth units is fairly useless. They can just upload their memories into a collective consciousness and retain any knowledge

    Their “upload” ability is fairly limited. A codex entry in ME2 states that their infantry loses intelligence for every unit lost, and falls into a berserker-like state with enough losses. Currently looking for that codex entry…

    Also, the Geth-Reaper alliance was only an option because the Quarians destroyed a network-nexus. With every program inside destroyed or lost, the geth “consensus/hive-mind” panicked by the massive loss of intelligence.

  95. Warlock Lowk November 2, 2014 at 12:30 am -      #95

    “Their “upload” ability is fairly limited.”

    In what way? As Long as they have a means of communication open they can upload back the the geth. I could see how there could be a problem like say
    1. Legion’s possible death during the suicide mission. He was cut of from the rest of the Geth and didn’t have means of establishing a connection with them from the middle of nowhere, inside the collector ship.
    That should only be a problem if a lone geth wonders way to far alone.
    2. As you mentioned the Geth-reaper incident. These were the NICE Geth who didn’t want to fight. They were busy uploading all of themselves into a single point. The Quarian snuckblitzed them so that they didn’t have a lot of time to upload everyone.
    In this fight the Geth aren’t passive and they have no reason to be busy doing projects like that. They’re in full fuck up the enemy mode.
    ===
    “A codex entry in ME2 states that their infantry loses intelligence for every unit lost, and falls into a berserker-like state with enough losses. Currently looking for that codex entry…”

    As of ME3 they were fully upgraded to AI status. They can all now operate independently of one another like Legion. Poor poor Legion. Just when he was getting a hang of feelings.
    Man I hope they have another nice Geth in ME4. Maybe like a Juggernaut crew member. There fucking awesome
    I almost pissed myself when these primes started dropping out of the sky and mopping up the Reapers. We fired a few rounds at them until we realized they weren’t firing back. Then this one comes over, said they’re “allied assistance” and asks for our status.”
    They drop from the sky without pods, mop up reaper forces, then shows concern for the people who at shoot them.

  96. Warlock Lowk November 2, 2014 at 12:37 am -      #96

    “In gameplay, flames is not effective against shields and barriers, but work just fine against the moblie platforms (geth). Don’t think there is any lore that contradicts this.”

    They don’t panic from pain or being lit a flame.Their skin is basically their combat armors. And through legion it is shown that they can take some punishment and still be operational even with holes punched in them.

  97. Epicazeroth November 2, 2014 at 2:24 am -      #97

    @Secrecy: “Don’t think there is any lore that contradicts this.”
    From the Codex for Shields: “The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.”

    From the Codex for Reapers: “Weapons designed to maximize heat damage, such as the Thanix series, show better results against the Reapers than pure kinetic impacts.”

    And from the gameplay: All of the DEW’s in-game have huge benefits vs Shields and Barriers. The Collector weapons, the Prothean Rifle, the Arc weapons, and the Quarian weapons. I believe plasma weapons like the Geth’s also have large bonuses against Shields and Barriers.
    ––
    The reason flame attacks don’t do any better is because those have no kinetic force whatsoever. Things that have mass but also energy (particle beams and plasma) are stated to work better against pretty much everything.
    ===
    @Lowk: “And through legion it is shown that they can take some punishment and still be operational even with holes punched in them.”
    True. But Legion is designed to be self-sufficient, so he would be able to take more damage than everything except a Juggernaut or Prime, basically.

  98. Ciridae Hunter November 2, 2014 at 2:30 am -      #98

    Actually, every Geth is capable of performing self-repair functions using raw materials-even the Vex, ironically-if to a lesser extent than Legion; I don’t see how being made more intelligent makes Legion more durable-if that was the case, then Stephen Hawking would be the new form of cockroach (in a good way).

  99. Warlock Lowk November 2, 2014 at 4:44 am -      #99

    “The reason flame attacks don’t do any better is because those have no kinetic force whatsoever. Things that have mass but also energy (particle beams and plasma) are stated to work better against pretty much everything.”

    Yeah shields don’t do to well against DEW and heat. ME does have some defensive measures against them in how they do armor though.

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