Senator Armstrong Vs Greed

Senator Armstrong Vs Greed

Suggested by Aelfinn

Here we have Senator Armstrong from Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance facing off against Greed from Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood.

They meet at the Palace of Versailles.

Who wins?

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93 Comments on "Senator Armstrong Vs Greed"

  1. Rookie October 19, 2014 at 6:28 am -      #1

    Armstrong should win, if of course Greed do not have any hax ability with him. Armstrong should be much faster and stronger than Greed.
    From 12:01 Armstrong blow up entire robot with his punch:

  2. Rookie October 19, 2014 at 6:29 am -      #2

    Greed vs Bradley, round 1:

  3. Rookie October 19, 2014 at 6:32 am -      #3

    Bradley vs Greed, round 2, Greed had new body during that fight:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYN9SSVpyPs

    Armstrong vs Sam, from 8:07 Armstrong use part of his hand as weapon:

  4. mack006 October 19, 2014 at 6:34 am -      #4

    I’ve only seen Greed once and that was from an anime beatdown countdown. Seeing how he got destroyed by that guy who clicks his fingers around and hearing his annoying laughter makes me kinda doubt he would win. Armstrong takes this.

  5. Parry Boy October 19, 2014 at 7:29 am -      #5

    “How’d Armstrong win this battle?”
    “Nanomachines, son.”

  6. Friendlysociopath October 19, 2014 at 9:38 am -      #6

    Hmm, Greed might have more speed than Armstrong- but I don’t think he has any way of actually hurting him through his nanomachines. Although they do seem to fail as the battle progresses.

  7. Rookie October 19, 2014 at 9:52 am -      #7

    @Friendlysociopath

    “Hmm, Greed might have more speed than Armstrong”

    Why?

    “Although they do seem to fail as the battle progresses.”

    This will not help Greed at all if all he can do is use melee attacks.

  8. Ragnorke October 19, 2014 at 10:43 am -      #8

    They both have very similar power sets, but Armstrong is just superior in every way feat wise.

    Worth noting that Greeds Shield has never been physically beaten.
    The only times he lost was when Bradley was too fast for him, and Greed didn’t cover his entire body in the Shield.
    When Ed used alchemy to change the composition of his Shield.
    And when God sucked his soul out.

  9. Alpha or Omega October 19, 2014 at 12:06 pm -      #9

    @Friendlysociopath
    “Although they do seem to fail as the battle progresses.”
    /
    That was due to an atom cutting sword, which Greed doesn’t have.
    /
    @Ragnorke
    “Worth noting that Greeds Shield has never been physically beaten.”
    /
    I don’t think that shield would last forever. If Armstrong gets a hold on Greed. It would be the same thing as Armstrong pounding on Raiden.
    It’s also worth noting Raiden is made out of carbon nanotubes which means Raiden should be durable as Greed’s shield if it wasn’t evident enough.

  10. Ragnorke October 19, 2014 at 12:13 pm -      #10

    “It’s also worth noting Raiden is made out of carbon nanotubes which means Raiden should be durable as Greed’s shield if it wasn’t evident enough”

    Everyone has Carbon in their body. It’s the amount/density of the Carbon that makes the difference.

  11. Alpha or Omega October 19, 2014 at 12:50 pm -      #11

    I said carbon nanotubes. Not just carbon.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_nanotube
    That’s what gives Raiden his durability and enhanced strength. It’s also what most of his body is made out of aside from fake blood.

  12. Belisaurius October 19, 2014 at 1:04 pm -      #12

    I’m not quite sure Armstrong has the endurance to kill greed enough to deplete his philosopher’s stone.

  13. Ciridae Hunter October 19, 2014 at 2:00 pm -      #13

    Mack, you’re thinking about Envy since he is the one with the annoying laugh and who got burned to hell by Mustang; Greed never fights Mustang.

  14. Warlock Lowk October 19, 2014 at 2:02 pm -      #14

    “I’m not quite sure Armstrong has the endurance to kill greed enough to deplete his philosopher’s stone.”

    I forgot about that. They’ve got deadpool level regen….. philospher-stones son.

  15. Alpha or Omega October 19, 2014 at 2:09 pm -      #15

    @Belisaurius
    “I’m not quite sure Armstrong has the endurance to kill greed enough to deplete his philosopher’s stone.”
    /
    I don’t think he will need endurance since the nanomachines won’t let Greed kill Armstrong. It’s not like Armstrong will get tired beating Greed to death.

  16. Ciridae Hunter October 19, 2014 at 2:10 pm -      #16

    Greed’s healing is much better than Armstrong’s, though Armstrong has the hax strength. Armstrong’s nanomachines also start to fail whereas Greed’s full-body shield has only ever been beaten using alchemy; it doesn’t seem like Armstrong’s nanomachines can regenerate after a while, but that could just be because he couldn’t be as annoying as Sephiroth in Kingdom Hearts 2 (though both were easy to beat with patience).

    Armstrong is bulkier as well, moving more like a football player or boxer in the fight with Raiden which-as everyone recalls-is how Raiden was able to beat him; Greed is faster and can get under his guard much easier than Raiden since Greed is shorter and more fluid by design.

    Armstrong has his strength, but so long as Greed relies on his speed then he has this.

  17. Alpha or Omega October 19, 2014 at 2:14 pm -      #17

    @Ciridae
    How will Greed wound Armstrong?
    He doesn’t have an atom cutting sword.
    Sure, Raiden was faster than Armstrong but he didn’t win until his pet came in and gave him Samuel’s Muramasa sword which allowed him to actually cut Armstrong.

  18. Belisaurius October 19, 2014 at 2:17 pm -      #18

    One sec, are we using old!Greed or new/Ling!Greed? It’s important because Ling possess significant martial skill and could simply toss Armstrong around to damage his internals rather than crack his skin.

  19. Ciridae Hunter October 19, 2014 at 2:20 pm -      #19

    I’m going with Ling since the picture has him in it-using Occam’s Razor, bitches!

  20. Ciridae Hunter October 19, 2014 at 2:23 pm -      #20

    I always wondered why they didn’t leave the chainsaw on Wolf-he would be a more badass AI with it still attached.

  21. Rookie October 19, 2014 at 2:26 pm -      #21

    @Belisaurius

    ” It’s important because Ling possess significant martial skill and could simply toss Armstrong around to damage his internals rather than crack his skin.”

    What?
    Oh well, I just must do… Armstrong reaction:

  22. Ciridae Hunter October 19, 2014 at 2:27 pm -      #22

    I never see Armstrong cover his face even with his arms and he moved like a brick shithouse filled with obese whales fighting both Samuel and Raiden, so getting past his guard wouldn’t be an issue for Ling since he was able to keep up with Bradley, a man that literally saw all weakness with his Ultimate Eye and could move faster than the wannabe Robo-Samurai even in his old age.

  23. Alpha or Omega October 19, 2014 at 2:28 pm -      #23

    @Belisaurius
    We are using Ling Greed, but Armstrong’s nanomachines are also internal as seen when Raiden cuts and rips his heart out or when Samuel cuts his arm off.

  24. Ciridae Hunter October 19, 2014 at 2:28 pm -      #24

    Once again, Rookie, you lighten up a room.

  25. Rookie October 19, 2014 at 2:29 pm -      #25

    @Ciridae Hunter

    “for Ling since he was able to keep up with Bradley”

    You might wanna re-read this fight in manga.

  26. Ciridae Hunter October 19, 2014 at 2:30 pm -      #26

    Keeping up is different than neck-in-neck, Rookie, but I see your point.

  27. Alpha or Omega October 19, 2014 at 2:35 pm -      #27

    @Ciridae Hunter
    “I never see Armstrong cover his face even with his arms”
    /
    As seen in the video above where Samuel fights him, we see Samuel hit him on the head with his sword @7:25 of the Sam DLC video. Armstrong blocks it with nanomachines.
    /
    “and he moved like a brick shithouse filled with obese whales fighting both Samuel and Raiden, so getting past his guard wouldn’t be an issue for Ling since he was able to keep up with Bradley, a man that literally saw all weakness with his Ultimate Eye and could move faster than the wannabe Robo-Samurai even in his old age.”
    /
    Ling Greed had trouble fighting Bradley as seen in his new body against Bradley in Bradley’s house.
    He had to escape and he barely covered his neck in time against Bradley’s blade.
    In his second fight, he had help.
    How fast is Bradley?
    Raiden can keep up with a high speed train in his old body and is faster in his new body thanks to CNT.

  28. Ciridae Hunter October 19, 2014 at 2:37 pm -      #28

    Bradley is able to escape from an exploding train by jumping across the wreckage as it goes barreling down into a canyon…so that fast.

    I just saw the video and forgot about the head thing-sorry.

  29. Ciridae Hunter October 19, 2014 at 2:39 pm -      #29

    @Alpha or Omega
    In those fights Ling didn’t cover his whole body, so of course he would have trouble against Bradley (must be some weird honor code amongst Homunculi).

  30. Ciridae Hunter October 19, 2014 at 2:42 pm -      #30

    Raiden is like a boob-job: artificial.

    Bradley is human aside from his eye and yet he can do feats that Raiden could ever do with a cybernetic body.

  31. Ragnorke October 19, 2014 at 3:06 pm -      #31

    “Ling Greed had trouble fighting Bradley as seen in his new body against Bradley in Bradley’s house.
    He had to escape and he barely covered his neck in time against Bradley’s blade.”

    PiS or CiS.
    We already know Greed is capable of covering his entire body, and still fighting while fully covered.

    “How fast is Bradley?
    Raiden can keep up with a high speed train in his old body and is faster in his new body thanks to CNT.”

    Check out the Bradley vs Cap thread, there’s a few animated Gifs posted by me early on.

    Bradley was able to dodge 3 different bullets at point-blank range, pretty much simultaneously, and still looked totally casual while doing it.

    However Greed is NOWHERE NEAR as fast as Bradley.
    Bradley fought (and beat) Greed + another bullet timing Ninja. Despite Bradley not having any regen or shield.

  32. Alpha or Omega October 19, 2014 at 3:21 pm -      #32

    “Bradley is able to escape from an exploding train by jumping across the wreckage as it goes barreling down into a canyon…so that fast.”
    /
    That doesn’t seem fast since there was enough distance between the canyon and the bridge for him to run out of the train.
    /
    “In those fights Ling didn’t cover his whole body, so of course he would have trouble against Bradley (must be some weird honor code amongst Homunculi).”
    /
    Or perhaps he wasn’t fast enough?
    /
    “Bradley is human aside from his eye and yet he can do feats that Raiden could ever do with a cybernetic body.”
    /
    Actually, in MGS4, Raiden stopped a giant multi-ten thousand ton sub in his old body and as seen here
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4bYOvG3IPE
    can block a multi-10/100 ton blade and throw a multi-thousand Metal Gear onto its back, and use the multi-10/100 ton blade to cut it.
    Raiden can also catch up to a train in the old body and run up walls and on ceilings.
    Raiden with his boob-job is superior to Bradley.

  33. Alpha or Omega October 19, 2014 at 3:25 pm -      #33

    @Ragnorke
    Ah okay, thanks.

  34. Ciridae Hunter October 19, 2014 at 4:03 pm -      #34

    @Alpha or Omega
    I was talking about speed feats, not strength-obviously a cybernetic body is superior in terms of strength

    Weight is never given for the blades of the Ray or the other one at the end; in fact, large, heavy blades are proven to be extremely fragile due to the fact that they cannot be made to be as sturdy as smaller swords.

    You could say multi-ton sub and we could know what you are talking about.

    Bradley can dodge bullets and near-instant alchemy and I just realized we’re beginning to stray from Armstrong/Greed to Bradley/Raiden

    Even with a cybernetic body Raiden whines too much for my tastes.

  35. Ciridae Hunter October 19, 2014 at 4:05 pm -      #35

    Raiden reminds me of the Turks in FFVII when he’s wearing the suit.

  36. Ciridae Hunter October 19, 2014 at 4:08 pm -      #36

    @Alpha or Omega
    He didn’t cover his whole body-of course Greed would have issues; in all of his fights with Bradley he never used full-body shield which would have easily shattered Bradley’s swords if he did use full-body. You can’t use your logic if he never truly fought at full strength.

  37. Ragnorke October 19, 2014 at 4:13 pm -      #37

    “I just realized we’re beginning to stray from Armstrong/Greed to Bradley/Raiden”

    Because they’re a lot more epic.

  38. Ciridae Hunter October 19, 2014 at 4:17 pm -      #38

    True that.

  39. Alpha or Omega October 19, 2014 at 4:20 pm -      #39

    “I was talking about speed feats,”
    /
    Raiden is still faster as far as speed is concerned.
    /
    “Weight is never given for the blades of the Ray or the other one at the end; in fact, large, heavy blades are proven to be extremely fragile due to the fact that they cannot be made to be as sturdy as smaller swords”
    /
    Metal Gear Excelsus’ blades were sturdy enough to be swung at Raiden and for Raiden to swing.
    They are also heavy since Raiden in his old body threw Metal Gear Ray into the air but he can only push the blade back when they are swung at his new body.
    /
    “You could say multi-ton sub and we could know what you are talking about.”
    /
    You wouldn’t know that it would be thousands of tons if I didn’t call Outer Haven a multi-thousand ton sub.
    /
    “Bradley can dodge bullets and near-instant alchemy and I just realized we’re beginning to stray from Armstrong/Greed to Bradley/Raiden”
    /
    So can Raiden. (Except alchemy, because that doesn’t exist in Metal Gear-verse)
    You mentioned Raiden beating Armstrong so I thought it would be relevant to mention Raiden and his ability as well as Greed in his fight against Bradley.

  40. Ciridae Hunter October 19, 2014 at 4:24 pm -      #40

    I can respect that.

    Isn’t there another word for thousands of tons? Like Tera-Tons or something?

    Oh, thank you for giving me the name of the other Metal Gear (it felt like a bigger MG Ray so I was too bored to pay attention to it when I massacred it).

  41. Alpha or Omega October 19, 2014 at 4:27 pm -      #41

    You mean kilo?
    I think people on the internet don’t like to type prefixes unless it involves energy.
    It’s probably some habit or something.

  42. Ciridae Hunter October 19, 2014 at 4:33 pm -      #42

    I gets bigger after kilo and smaller after milli-but I have noticed that, now that you mention it.

  43. Malenfant October 19, 2014 at 4:51 pm -      #43

    I believe these are all the prefixes, although some of the vowels past ‘yotta’ are subject to change:

    Kilo = 10^3
    Mega = 10^6
    Giga = 10^9
    Tera = 10^12
    Peta = 10^15
    Exa = 10^18
    Zetta = 10^21
    Yotta = 10^24
    Xetta = 10^27
    Wetta = 10^30
    Vetta = 10^33
    Utta = 10^36
    Tetta = 10^39
    Setta = 10^42
    Retta = 10^45
    Qetta = 10^48
    Petta = 10^51
    Otta = 10^54
    Netta = 10^57
    Metta = 10^60
    Letta = 10^63
    Ketta = 10^66
    Jetta = 10^69
    Itta = 10^72
    Hetta = 10^75
    Getta = 10^78
    Fetta = 10^81
    Etta = 10^84
    Detta = 10^87
    Cetta = 10^90
    Betta = 10^93
    Atta = 10^96

    Also Armstrong takes this, I believe.

  44. Ciridae Hunter October 19, 2014 at 4:55 pm -      #44

    I think I had some Fetta on my pasta *duh-duh tss*

    If the nanomachines sense the impending attack and block each time without Armstrong thinking, then he will have a major advantage

  45. Malenfant October 19, 2014 at 5:12 pm -      #45

    Well let’s see. Revolver Ocelot, IIRC, has an insanely high draw speed (may calc it later) thanks to that feat of literally redirecting a lightning strike. Grey Fox speedblitzed him. Raiden’s MGS4 incarnation>Grey Fox, in pretty much all technological aspects. Raiden’s MGR armor>>>Raiden’s MGS4 armor. Senator Armstrong was crushing him like a bug up until he got Muramasa. All in all, pretty fast.

  46. Alpha or Omega October 19, 2014 at 5:48 pm -      #46

    @Malenfant
    Actually, if you look back in the scene for when Ocelot does that, you’ll see that it took nearly 2 seconds for that to happen meaning that either he’s moving faster than lightning and the bullets also move faster than lightning, or it likely means Volgin was only shooting lightning that wasn’t natural.
    /
    Not that it matters since Gray Fox was cloaked when he severed Ocelot’s arms, so reaction times didn’t matter.
    /
    Also, it was debated that Gray Fox would defeat MGS4 Raiden in that thread.

  47. Malenfant October 19, 2014 at 6:07 pm -      #47

    “Actually, if you look back in the scene for when Ocelot does that, you’ll see that it took nearly 2 seconds for that to happen meaning that either he’s moving faster than lightning and the bullets also move faster than lightning, or it likely means Volgin was only shooting lightning that wasn’t natural.”

    I’d still reckon its a minimum of hypersonic speed. www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_7AkIpl108
    I’d chalk it up to 50-60 km/s, which is lowballing it considerably. For reference, Ocelot would have to react within a timeframe of 0.000023945 seconds.

    Not that it matters since Gray Fox was cloaked when he severed Ocelot’s arms, so reaction times didn’t matter.

    Eh, Snake was able to fight him, and Snake/Gray Fox are on the same level. Raiden could beat them both.

    “Also, it was debated that Gray Fox would defeat MGS4 Raiden in that thread.”

    They way I see it Gray Fox is more experienced, but tech outweighs the match in Raiden’s favor. Gray Fox was crushed by persistent pressure from a Metal Gear (albeit with his suit already broken). Raiden literally survived a MG that cruised through part of Manhattan running him over.

  48. Alpha or Omega October 19, 2014 at 6:25 pm -      #48

    @Malenfant
    “I’d still reckon its a minimum of hypersonic speed. www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_7AkIpl108
    I’d chalk it up to 50-60 km/s, which is lowballing it considerably. For reference, Ocelot would have to react within a timeframe of 0.000023945 seconds.”
    /
    If it was hypersonic speeds, it would have reached Ocelot even before he pulled out the gun since it took one second to do so and he would’ve been hit right there. The distance looks around 3 or 5 meters and if it was hypersonic, it would’ve hit him in a small fraction of a second.
    Even if you claim it was in slow-mo, that doesn’t excuse the fact that the bullets were faster than it since Volgin shot electricity and only reached one meter or less during a longer period of time while the bullets intercepted it in a shorter period of time while traveling a greater distance.
    /
    “Eh, Snake was able to fight him, and Snake/Gray Fox are on the same level. Raiden could beat them both.”
    /
    Raiden would beat Snake and Gray Fox because not of reaction times, but the durability to tank Snake’s rail-gun and his visor’s ability to see through their camo via solid eye.
    Besides, how would beating this guy imply that you have this guy’s reaction speed or speed?
    /
    “They way I see it Gray Fox is more experienced, but tech outweighs the match in Raiden’s favor. Gray Fox was crushed by persistent pressure from a Metal Gear (albeit with his suit already broken). Raiden literally survived a MG that cruised through part of Manhattan running him over.”
    /
    That was already accounted for.
    They said Gray Fox would defeat MGS4 Raiden because he can block bullets from a few meters away and at point blank while making his arms look like it’s not moving.

  49. itcheyness October 19, 2014 at 7:20 pm -      #49

    Bradley isn’t human, he’s a homunculus.

    Unless all humans in FMA are casual bullet dodgers who cut tank shells in half without blinking…

  50. Ciridae Hunter October 19, 2014 at 7:28 pm -      #50

    Manga/written source is considered canon; tank feat has been discounted several times on this site.

  51. Ciridae Hunter October 19, 2014 at 8:34 pm -      #51

    Bradley is the most human of the Homunculi, sporting my only his Eye and possessing neither immortality nor regenerative abilities.

    A lot of the people have pretty intense abilities otherwise considered inhuman (Ling survives getting assaulted by Envy when inside Gluttony despite each hit having the equivalent force of a truck, for example)

  52. Blazing Waffles October 19, 2014 at 10:56 pm -      #52

    “Hmm, Greed might have more speed than Armstrong- but I don’t think he has any way of actually hurting him through his nanomachines. Although they do seem to fail as the battle progresses.”

    That’s because Armstrong’s nanomachines require an outside source of power to activate – like Metal Gear Excelsus, for instance – and can only stay active for a short amount of time. Also, it takes a moment for the nanomachines to form a barrier, just a very brief split-second, but if Greed can hit him before the barrier comes up, he could hurt Armstrong just like anybody else. Question is, can he take off Armstrong’s head or heart so his healing ability can’t kick in?

  53. Ciridae Hunter October 19, 2014 at 11:13 pm -      #53

    Does the palace have substantial power to activate the nanomachines, because if they need a lot of power to work then Greed has this.

  54. Ciridae Hunter October 19, 2014 at 11:20 pm -      #54

    Also, if Greed can dodge Armstrong until the power runs out then Armstrong is just a normal politician with his shirt off rather than a nanomechanized death trap.

  55. Friendlysociopath October 19, 2014 at 11:23 pm -      #55

    “Does the palace have substantial power to activate the nanomachines, because if they need a lot of power to work then Greed has this.”

    I’m going to say ‘no’, the Palace isn’t known for having large amounts of power available.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palace_of_Versailles

    Considering he has to use a Metal Gear to power them up- and Metal Gears require a lot of power- I would guess that he can’t keep the nanomachines active for long.
    Also, how well can Greed regenerate? I remember Mustang having to burn Lust to death, repeatedly, to keep her down.

  56. Alpha or Omega October 19, 2014 at 11:24 pm -      #56

    Ah crap.
    Yeah, I forgot about that whole power up thing.
    From what I seen of some google images., Versailles don’t have anything remotely similar to Metal Gears or several armored vehicles in the Metal Gear verse.
    /
    Without anything to power his nanomachines, he is a normal human that played football, joined the navy, and can do some wrestling looking moves.
    /
    Greed stomps.
    Though I would like to point out that if he did have enough power, it should last long enough for Armstrong to finish Greed.

  57. Ragnorke October 19, 2014 at 11:28 pm -      #57

    “Also, how well can Greed regenerate? I remember Mustang having to burn Lust to death, repeatedly, to keep her down.”

    Keeps regenerating until the souls in his stone run out. However, he doesn’t usually need to rely on regen… caus… shield

  58. Warlock Lowk October 19, 2014 at 11:38 pm -      #58

    Found an example of healing.
    i4-img6.mangacat.com/16016/16614214/9326058_16016.jpg
    i4-img6.mangacat.com/16016/16614214/9326059_16016.jpg
    i3-img6.mangacat.com/16016/16614214/9326060_16016.jpg

  59. Alpha or Omega October 19, 2014 at 11:47 pm -      #59

    I guess we should have the admin or suggestee before 50 posts say he would be amped up or so.
    Now he has no powers, except in politics.

  60. Ciridae Hunter October 19, 2014 at 11:50 pm -      #60

    Or at least have Greed kill a Metal Gear or else Armstrong will have taken his shirt off for nothing.

  61. Aelfinn October 20, 2014 at 12:15 am -      #61

    Obviously I had intended Senator Armstrong to be powered up for this fight. I hadn’t realized we’d be that asinine and pedantic about it. But if we’re going to go that route, Current Incarnation at peak condition for Armstrong is right before his fight with Raiden, where he was powered up, so BankGambling rules would have him as such here.

    Furthermore, I have no clue where the notion that Armstrong has a time limit comes from. The only indication of that I can conceive is when he heals himself during his fight with Raiden (where he draws in more power), but that’s directly because of the damage that Raiden caused him, and not due to some arbitrary time limit.

  62. Rookie October 20, 2014 at 12:20 am -      #62

    What about Armstrong ability to summon lava. Can lava kill Greed?

  63. Alpha or Omega October 20, 2014 at 1:11 am -      #63

    @Aelfinn
    In that case, Armstrong beats Greed to death.
    /
    @Rookie
    That’s not lava, though I would like to point out that he can do it on the top of World Marshal headquarters which likely means it’s not lava, but several explosions.

  64. Ragnorke October 20, 2014 at 1:19 am -      #64

    @Aelfinn
    “Furthermore, I have no clue where the notion that Armstrong has a time limit comes from”

    Well, he needs to be powered up, does he not?
    Therefore isn’t it safe to say the augmented powers are temporary and not permanent? Otherwise why not just keep yourself perma amped from the get go?

  65. Ciridae Hunter October 20, 2014 at 1:35 am -      #65

    Think of it like Mustang’s fire alchemy-ignition of the molecules in the air using the energy he collects as a catalyst-ergo, explosions.

  66. Rookie October 20, 2014 at 1:43 am -      #66

    @Alpha or Omega

    “That’s not lava, though I would like to point out that he can do it on the top of World Marshal headquarters which likely means it’s not lava, but several explosions.”

    He summons it from the very core of the Earth and it make all the way from the core to the top of World Marshal headquarters! Isn’t it obvious? Armstrong is lava bender! The hints were everywere!
    Now when we have this joke out of the way…
    ///
    This stuff in molten form. And looks like pretty hot too. Even if it’s not lava, can’t Armstrong just fill Greed mouth with it (disgusting thought by the way, but what can one do?) and seal Greed ability to inhale air?

  67. Alpha or Omega October 20, 2014 at 1:48 am -      #67

    “But this stuff in molten form.”
    /
    No it’s not. It doesn’t look like it nor act like lava.
    Probably some nanomachine thing.
    /
    “Even if not lava, can’t Armstrong just fill Greed mouth with it (disgusting thought by the way, but what can one do?) and seal Greed ability to inhale air”
    /
    He’ll still regenerate as far as I’m concerned.

  68. Ciridae Hunter October 20, 2014 at 1:48 am -      #68

    He sends energy through his Falcon-Punch into the ground, which allows him to direct the molecular disassembly that results in the gouts of heat; it must be so hot that the ground/metal he’s standing on becomes temporarily heated.

  69. Blazing Waffles October 20, 2014 at 1:49 am -      #69

    “Obviously I had intended Senator Armstrong to be powered up for this fight. I hadn’t realized we’d be that asinine and pedantic about it”

    I intended that to mean he has a limited amount of power to fight with (which is why he seems to get weaker during his fight with Raiden), not that he needs to power up before he can fight here. Sorry if my wording made that unclear.

  70. Ciridae Hunter October 20, 2014 at 1:54 am -      #70

    He needs to have contact with something in order to generate the energy, therefor he couldn’t fill Greed’s mouth with it (mental repression of wording in…now) unless he decided to go and fist Greed (once again, in…now).

  71. Alpha or Omega October 20, 2014 at 1:54 am -      #71

    @Blazing Waffles
    Eh, that was due to an atom cutting sword.
    Without Sam’s sword, Raiden;s normal HF Vibroblades and his fists did nothing to him, which is pretty much what Greed is going to do here

  72. Ciridae Hunter October 20, 2014 at 1:57 am -      #72

    Think of Raiden’s pre-sword fight as that one boss in the Final Fantasy series with the five hundred billion HP (or some other insanely high number)-throughout the fight, Armstrong’s health steadily went down; once you beat the game, use the wooden sword…

  73. Alpha or Omega October 20, 2014 at 2:04 am -      #73

    If it was comparable to a Final Fantasy game, then Raiden’s sword and fists would do 1 damage per a hit while Muramasa would do 1,000,000 per a hit to Armstrong’s five hundred billion HP.
    And then, Greed’s attacks would be like 0.0005 damage or something.
    /
    Really, the atom cutting sword makes a big difference as it’s seemingly the only way for Armstrong to be eventually cut and killed.

  74. Ciridae Hunter October 20, 2014 at 2:11 am -      #74

    If the sword could really cut atoms, then how in the hell could Raiden block it with his weapons? More likely, Muramasa is designed to separate molecules at an atomic level using an electromagnetic field and weapons such as Raiden’s Vibroblades can block it due to the molecular instability generated by the swords.

    I mean, if it could really cut atoms, then Armstrong’s shield would mean diddly dick in comparison.

    Also, I always got the Annakin vibe from Raiden-I slightly liked him when he first showed up (and hated him for replacing Snake), then he got whiny, and then he wants to go to the Dark Side (as seen at the end of Revengance).

    Annakin Junior, everyone.

  75. TheSorrow October 20, 2014 at 2:53 am -      #75

    Think of Raiden’s pre-sword fight as that one boss in the Final Fantasy series with the five hundred billion HP

    You are thinking of Yiazmat from Final Fantasy XII, and it has 50 million HP.

  76. Rookie October 20, 2014 at 3:03 am -      #76

    @TheSorrow

    “You are thinking of Yiazmat from Final Fantasy XII, and it has 50 million HP.”

    Wow. And the max damage allowed per-hit is still 9999?

  77. Ciridae Hunter October 20, 2014 at 3:17 am -      #77

    Yea, but depending on the party combos can get pretty damaging pretty quickly.

  78. Alpha or Omega October 20, 2014 at 3:24 am -      #78

    @Ciridae
    “If the sword could really cut atoms, then how in the hell could Raiden block it with his weapons? More likely, Muramasa is designed to separate molecules at an atomic level using an electromagnetic field and weapons such as Raiden’s Vibroblades can block it due to the molecular instability generated by the swords.”
    /
    He blocked it because Platinum Studios.
    Actually, it was stated that muramasa combined with its sharp edge and then its re-modification as HF blade allowed to cut the connection between sub-atoms.
    Raiden proceeded to say that’s too smart for me, please say it in a simple way.
    And then in layman terms, Kevin said it cuts atoms.
    /
    “I mean, if it could really cut atoms, then Armstrong’s shield would mean diddly dick in comparison.”
    /
    Well, it did take a while but Sam’s blade still cuts nanomachines.
    The most likely reason is nanomachines son…made by Platinum Studios.
    Not that it matters since he takes no damage from Raiden’s regular HF blade. The same blade that splits a Metal Gear Ray in half and what Greed cannot do.
    /
    “Yea, but depending on the party combos can get pretty damaging pretty quickly.”
    /
    So a lot of 1s and 0.5s?

  79. Warlock Lowk October 20, 2014 at 3:33 am -      #79

    “The most likely reason is nanomachines son…made by Platinum Studios. Bayonetta, Vanquish, and”

    Platinum games. The same people making an avatar game in an era where they have mechs. I wonder how wacky thats gonna be.
    ===
    So right now it indestructible vs unkillable. Does that sum up this fight?

  80. Alpha or Omega October 20, 2014 at 4:08 am -      #80

    “The same people making an avatar game in an era where they have mechs.”
    /
    Wut?
    Platinum Games: Hello, what can you do?
    Korra: I can use air, water, earth, and fire and have this nifty super saiyan form called the avatar state.
    Platinum Games: *Looks at feats* Yeah that’s good and all, but do you know what would be better?
    Korra: What?
    Platinum Games: If you can lift thousands of tons, shoot flames that can burn cities, create earthquakes, flood a country, make F5-wait no- F700 tornados, and then, suplex a city sized mech. You would then proceed to launch said mech into a sun from Pluto from activating your Avatar state.
    Korra: I’m not getting paid enough for this.

  81. Parry Boy October 20, 2014 at 5:43 am -      #81

    Wut?
    Platinum Games: Hello, what can you do?
    Korra: I can use air, water, earth, and fire and have this nifty super saiyan form called the avatar state.
    Platinum Games: *Looks at feats* Yeah that’s good and all, but do you know what would be better?
    Korra: What?
    Platinum Games: If you can lift thousands of tons, shoot flames that can burn cities, create earthquakes, flood a country, make F5-wait no- F700 tornados, and then, suplex a city sized mech. You would then proceed to launch said mech into a sun from Pluto from activating your Avatar state.
    Korra: I’m not getting paid enough for this.
    =====================================
    20 HOURS LATER
    =====================================
    Korra: I’m not getting paid enough for this.
    Platinum Games: Oh, I know. That’s why we’re rebooting the series and make you a genetic mutation that came from a single atom in space made by several hundred– no thousand black holes and supernovae and came to you when you were ten.
    Korra: Cool

  82. IamTaco October 20, 2014 at 8:05 am -      #82

    Armstrong stomps. Raiden regularly slices apart bullets, RPGs and missiles in combat. He can also leap on top of said missiles in combat, pick up and toss kiloton mechs while in combat, uses a sword that ignores durability…

    And Armstrong is superior to him in every way. I don’t see how anybody is actually arguring for greed. Just watch any game play of metal gear rising and you should see how out matched greed is.

  83. Friendlysociopath October 20, 2014 at 8:38 am -      #83



    “And Armstrong is superior to him in every way.”

    Demonstrated fantastically by Raiden beating him.

    “I don’t see how anybody is actually arguring for greed. Just watch any game play of metal gear rising and you should see how out matched greed is.”

    Any game play of Metal Gear Rising that doesn’t feature Armstrong is irrelevant. Raiden is faster than Armstrong is and possibly stronger too; Armstrong himself has no speed feats besides being able to touch Raiden. Armstrong’s only advantage was being practically invulnerable to damage. His nanomachines don’t keep up with Raiden’s attacks several times.

  84. IamTaco October 20, 2014 at 8:59 am -      #84

    If I recall, Armstrong was manhandling Raiden without a problem until he got a sword that could actually hurt him. If you recall, in the fight, Armstrong took like zero damage from Raiden’s fist or his sword. Like nothing. In fact in several parts of the fight, he was letting raiden just punch him without care. That was just how tough he was. The only reason why raiden won was because of a hax sword that could actually hurt Armstrong.

    It’s like you verus batman. Batman has every advantage so he should win right? Expect that you start the match with a gun pointed right at batman’s head. So you win.

    Armstrong’s body is much stronger and better then raiden. The only thing Raiden has an slight speed advantage and a sword that could actually hurt him.

    I won’t deny that Raiden has an slight speed advantage but the fact that Armstrong manages to catch and land a few hits on him means that the speed advantage isn’t that huge. Again, this is a guy that has the reaction time to cut bullets and missiles out of thin air and has the speed to run ontop of missiles to the guy shooting them. The fact that Armstrong can even keep up with him tells us that he is superior in terms of speed and reaction time to anything Greed has.

  85. TheSorrow October 20, 2014 at 11:17 am -      #85

    *Wow. And the max damage allowed per-hit is still 9999?*

    The fight can usually around 2-3 hours on a good run. After awhile his defenses go up and the max you can do is 6999 I think. If you have a weapon have a dark weapon that can chain attacks rapidly, like a ninja sword, and have one person in berserk mode, they can deal out damage pretty fast.

  86. Malenfant October 20, 2014 at 3:36 pm -      #86

    “If it was hypersonic speeds, it would have reached Ocelot even before he pulled out the gun since it took one second to do so and he would’ve been hit right there. The distance looks around 3 or 5 meters and if it was hypersonic, it would’ve hit him in a small fraction of a second.”

    The entire sequence takes 64 frames, 23 of which are spent drawing. This gives the draw a timeframe of 0.000008605234375 s. It is taking place within the small fraction of a second.

    “Even if you claim it was in slow-mo, that doesn’t excuse the fact that the bullets were faster than it since Volgin shot electricity and only reached one meter or less during a longer period of time while the bullets intercepted it in a shorter period of time while traveling a greater distance.”

    Consider we’re talking about Metal Gear, where stuff like 18 meter long railguns conceivably capable of launching 20kg projectiles at 1% C (with a 5,000 litre fuel capacity), 10 megajoule man portable railguns that violate COM, 100 MW lasers with rifle sized lenses, megawatt wireless transmission systems; all prototyped between 1970 to 2010, it’s entirely plausible that we’re not talking about a normal revolver.

    “Raiden would beat Snake and Gray Fox because not of reaction times, but the durability to tank Snake’s rail-gun and his visor’s ability to see through their camo via solid eye.
    Besides, how would beating this guy imply that you have this guy’s reaction speed or speed?”

    MGS Earth is at a significantly higher level of already insane tech by 2018, I’d assume they’d
    advance in that aspect.

  87. Alpha or Omega October 20, 2014 at 4:55 pm -      #87

    @Malenfant
    “The entire sequence takes 64 frames, 23 of which are spent drawing. This gives the draw a timeframe of 0.000008605234375 s. It is taking place within the small fraction of a second.”
    /
    According to the wiki, the game has a framerate of 30 frames per a second.
    If you’re correct that the drawing took 23 frames then here’s the math.
    23F=Frames
    30FPS=30Frames per a second.
    23F/30FPS=0.766 seconds.
    0.766 seconds is the time the drawing took.
    In 0.766 seconds, something going at mach 1.2 (343 m/s) would have traveled 262.74 meters.
    If Volgin’s lightning was hypersonic, it would’ve hit him before he finished his draw.
    /
    Even if we go by a high frame rate that video games can’t go at like 300 FPS, it would be 0.0766 seconds and the distance traveled for something mach 1.2 would be 26.274 meters.
    Something going mach 5 and above would’ve already hit Ocelot.
    /
    “Consider we’re talking about Metal Gear, where stuff like 18 meter long railguns conceivably capable of launching 20kg projectiles at 1% C (with a 5,000 litre fuel capacity), 10 megajoule man portable railguns that violate COM, 100 MW lasers with rifle sized lenses, megawatt wireless transmission systems; all prototyped between 1970 to 2010, it’s entirely plausible that we’re not talking about a normal revolver.”
    /
    But during the events of Metal Gear Solid 3 there was no special type of weaponry during this time. The only thing that stands out during Metal Gear Solid 3 was the Patriot and the Shagohod due to infinite ammo for the former and the latter being a massive vehicle that would serve as a nuclear missile system. There was nothing special about the revolver Ocelot was holding.
    /
    It wasn’t until Metal Gear Peace Walker, like 10 years later, when the rail gun first appeared.
    /
    “MGS Earth is at a significantly higher level of already insane tech by 2018, I’d assume they’d
    advance in that aspect.”
    /
    In a codec call with Doktor, they said that cybernetics enhance speed and strength, but reaction times stayed the same.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-_7uPCWcAg#t=420
    Doktor: “No, I realize combat is about more than the equipment. Situational awareness, predictive ability, nerves… One must determine a course of attack or defense, and execute on a moment’s notice. Reaction time is key. Cyborg enhancements do not change that.”
    Raiden: “Agreed.”

  88. IamTaco October 21, 2014 at 6:50 am -      #88

    ‘In a codec call with Doktor, they said that cybernetics enhance speed and strength, but reaction times stayed the same.’

    Are you retarded? Where does it state that cyborg enhancements don’t enchant reaction times? Then I suppose that the average mook human in the metal gear universe can deflect bullets.

    Reading composition fail lol. Look doktor is saying that although the cyborg enhancements give them the necessary reaction time to react to a bullet in flight, if they don’t have the training to actually do something about said bullet then all the speed and strength in the world is useless.

    Take me for example. I’m a pussy so when someone throws a punch at me, I can see the punch, I actually can see the punch fast enough to dodge or block it. But like most people, I just close my eyes and wait for the blow. Actual trained fighters would have around the same amount of time to react but they can react in a much better way, blocking or weaving their way out of the punch. Take two extact same people and ask them to fight to the death with swords. But one of them is actually a master swordmans while the other has never even seen a sword in his life. The same body but who do you think wins? For example, you could give me raiden’s reaction time and I could see bullet racing their way towards me but I would probably die anyway because my natural reaction to this kind of things is to close my eyes and flinch like a little girl.

    So what Doktor is saying is that while cyborg enhancements give you the speed, reaction time and strength, you actually need training and combat expedience to actually properly use it to the fullest.

    We have seen raiden jump on missiles and slice apart rockets and missiles in mid air. He is hypersonic at the least and I’ve seen calcs that put him in the triple digit mach range.

  89. Envoy October 21, 2014 at 9:43 am -      #89

    “Then I suppose that the average mook human in the metal gear universe can deflect bullets.”
    +
    If they learn how, then yes. Don’t you know about the bullet timing ninjas from MGS 2.

  90. Alpha or Omega October 21, 2014 at 4:28 pm -      #90

    “Are you retarded? Where does it state that cyborg enhancements don’t enchant reaction times? Then I suppose that the average mook human in the metal gear universe can deflect bullets.”
    /
    Raiden is far from a normal human even without cyborg enhancements and fought Vamp and a person with an advanced exoskeleton.
    In MGS2, without cybernetic enhancements, Raiden was capable of deflecting bullets when he received a HF blade in the same game.
    Also, inversely, if cyborg enhancements have enhanced reaction times to the point where mooks could dodge bullets, those mooks wouldn’t be mooks anymore and they would dodge Raiden’s swings.
    /
    “Reading composition fail lol. Look doktor is saying that although the cyborg enhancements give them the necessary reaction time to react to a bullet in flight, if they don’t have the training to actually do something about said bullet then all the speed and strength in the world is useless.”
    /
    Except it says “reaction times is key. Cyborg enhancements don’t change that.” More likely, it refers to the fact that combat is more than just equipment(latest cyborg tech and HF blades) and it also depends on reaction times which he says cybernetic enhancements don’t change.
    /
    I’ve seen Raiden from Metal Gear Solid 2 up to Metal Gear Rising Revengeance and he has been ‘bullet timing,’ so it doesn’t likely support your interpretation that cybernetics makes his reaction times better since he already had them.
    /
    “Take me for example. I’m a pussy so when someone throws a punch at me, I can see the punch, I actually can see the punch fast enough to dodge or block it. But like most people, I just close my eyes and wait for the blow. Actual trained fighters would have around the same amount of time to react but they can react in a much better way, blocking or weaving their way out of the punch. Take two extact same people and ask them to fight to the death with swords. But one of them is actually a master swordmans while the other has never even seen a sword in his life. The same body but who do you think wins? For example, you could give me raiden’s reaction time and I could see bullet racing their way towards me but I would probably die anyway because my natural reaction to this kind of things is to close my eyes and flinch like a little girl.”
    /
    I already know that and have used that example a few times.
    Problem is that is not what Doktor is referring to and the example would be something else.
    /
    “So what Doktor is saying is that while cyborg enhancements give you the speed, reaction time and strength, you actually need training and combat expedience to actually properly use it to the fullest.”
    /
    Or that interpretation is wrong based on the fact that Raiden didn’t change his reaction times from MGS2 to MGS4 or MGRR since we only seen him bullet time and have not increased reaction times.
    /
    “We have seen raiden jump on missiles and slice apart rockets and missiles in mid air.”
    /
    Unfortunately, those missiles and rockets are way too slow in comparison to our real life counterparts.
    /
    “He is hypersonic at the least and I’ve seen calcs that put him in the triple digit mach range.”
    /
    That’s not his base speed or reaction times.
    Those “calculations” which puts Raiden at hypersonic speeds are based on the move zandetsu which increases his reaction times and speed by using electrolytes and not cyborg enhancements.
    One thing to point out that one of the calcs assume that Raiden is mach 100+ based on a mach 3 missile. They said the missile would go at mach 3 because it looks like our missile despite the fact that the missile has some visual differences and doesn’t look like it’s going near supersonic speeds.
    /
    Another calculation based on the helicopter feat assumes the blades of the helicopter were at super sonic speeds despite the fact that the blades only approach mach 1 in a fast forward velocity flight. The helicopter, in said feat, was not in a fast forward velocity flight and was staying at the same spot shooting missiles at Raiden.
    /
    Furthermore, there are also feats that show zandetsu at much slow speeds during the fight with Monsoon in the rain or during his cutting of Sundowner.
    Also, using zandetsu against Mistral shows the blood is still dripping fast as Raiden was cutting her and normal cyborg mooks showed that severed body parts fall to the ground in about three seconds during the use of zandetsu despite the fact that it was claimed to be in triple digit mach range.

  91. Ciridae Hunter October 26, 2014 at 12:03 am -      #91

    Bullet-timing isn’t too difficult in MG series; Null in Portable Ops had it, everyone in Revengeance had it, Ocelot is pretty fast…its in the training-though a cyborg body allows for faster, freer movements and targeting systems make predicting/seeing bullets’ flight paths easier.

    “So a lot of 1.0 and 0.5s then?”

    Please pay attention, Alpha or Omega-I was referring to the 50 mil boss in Final Fantasy.

  92. GabrielusPrime October 29, 2014 at 10:35 am -      #92

    @Blazing Waffles & IamTaco

    Nice names…

    As for the match, I only know about Greed, and his later version, Greeling (as Ed called him), but from what everyone’s saying, it’ll go like this:
    Greed: You can harding yourself, too?!
    Armstrong: Nanomachines, son.
    Greed: Where’s an alchemist when you need one?!

    Oh, by the way, can the nanomachines be hacked? Since I don’t see Greed, or anyone from the canon FMA timeline of around 1930s-1940s, being able to exploit such a weakness, let’s just say it’s for my own curiousity…

  93. Takoe November 5, 2014 at 12:20 pm -      #93

    @GabrielusPrime

    I highly doubt it, since the only system they are connected to is Armstrong’s nervous system.
    It is actually implied by Doktor in a codec call that he might be a Nanomachine construct, with his heart being the central pump.

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