Gromph Baenre & Lichdrow Dyrr Vs Harry Dresden & Ganondorf

Gromph Baenre & Lichdrow Dyrr Vs Harry Dresden & Ganondorf

Suggested by Rookie

For this tag team fight we have Gromph Baenre and Lichdrow Dyrr (both from Forgotten Realms) facing off against Harry Dresden (Dresden Files) and Ganondorf (The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess)

Magic against magic. Could be interesting, so let’s start right away.

Which team would win?

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85 Comments on "Gromph Baenre & Lichdrow Dyrr Vs Harry Dresden & Ganondorf"

  1. Rookie October 2, 2014 at 10:10 am -      #1

    Thanks Admin!

    Feats for team 1: forums.spacebattles.com/threads/forgotten-realms-feats-from-novels.312602/

  2. Commander Cross October 2, 2014 at 10:27 am -      #2

    What weapons do Side A got on them?
    Also, I take it that Post-Changes Dresden’s intended as well?

    I can go see what I can find for Ganondorf during TP later on if need be.

  3. Rookie October 2, 2014 at 10:32 am -      #3

    @Commander Cross

    “What weapons do Side A got on them?”

    Team 1? I will soon be home and will post about weapons directly from novel.

  4. Ragnorke October 2, 2014 at 10:33 am -      #4

    Well… Doesn’t ganon need an evilsbane weapon to be killed?

  5. Commander Cross October 2, 2014 at 10:55 am -      #5

    @Ragorke at #4

    They’re fighting at either a Holy and Divine Location or Side A’s got Holy + Divine Weapons or Powers on them.
    If they don’t got both, we’re doing something wrong.

    But anyway, if we’re talking Post-Changes Dresden as of Cold Days onward, doesn’t he have a Force Field he can now also fire and attack with while still leaving it intact?
    All Without Wearing a Pumpkin might I add?

    ____

    I’ll let Rookie answer the questions before I say anything more, the last thing I need on my conscience right now is messing up the match somehow.

  6. Rookie October 2, 2014 at 11:11 am -      #6

    @Ragnorke

    “Well… Doesn’t ganon need an evilsbane weapon to be killed?”

    It’s a bit NLF… but if nothing else Team 1 can seal or BFR him.

    Alright I am home, now… about Dyrr and his stuff:

    “He is a lich,” the Master of Sorcere said, “so his touch will paralyze.”

    “He will radiate an aura of fear,” the Master of Sorcere continued, “but you probably won’t be affected by that.”

    “Once in each twenty-four hour cycle,” said the Master of Sorcere, “he can kill with a touch.”

    “There are a number of spell effects that will be of no concern to the lich,” said the master. “These include cold, lightning, poison, paralysis, disease, necromancy, polymorph, and spells that affect or influence the mind. Best not even to bother preparing such enchantments.”

    “He will likely be wearing a robe of black silk,” the Master of Sorcere continued, “that will allow him to conjure a barrier of whirling blades.”

    “The crown,” the Master of Sorcere finished, “is more than simply a crass affectation. It can store and reflect back offensive spells.”

    Can see through illusions:

    Dyrr blinked after having cast on himself a spell that would make unseen things visible to him. Nimor looked different but in ways that seemed incongruous, even impossible. The drow assassin was no drow, as Dyrr had know for some time, but for the first time Dyrr could see something that might have been wings.

    Shield capable to move and think on it’s own:

    A third ray, a beam of insidious violet, was deflected by the lich’s animated buckler. The device tittered like a wicked child as it intercepted the attack.
    ///
    The demon-faced buckler darted and wheeled around him, laughing shrilly and blocking even more blows than that, parrying strike after strike from the stone construct.

    About Dyrr’s body:

    Gromph cried out in triumph as pieces of Dyrr clattered to the floor.

    Dust billowed from the hovering form of the lich, and his skull nodded down to his breastbone almost as if his animating magic was failing him, but the bony creature returned to itself with startling speed. Dyrr looked up again as wicked green light grew strong in his eye sockets, and he laughed.

    “My old bones aren’t the entirety of my being, Gromph,” he rasped. “You abuse them to no great effect.”

    Can destroy magical stuff:

    Before Gromph could finish his spell—one meant to burn the already wounded lich once more—Dyrr whispered something the archmage couldn’t quite hear, and the spell took effect. The skull sapphire burned red-hot against Gromph’s forehead, and he reached up to throw it off him—but it disintegrated before he could touch it. The dust that fell over the archmage’s face was dull gray and powerless. There would be no more protection from the skull sapphire and no more stored necromancies. Gromph knew it had taken a wish to destroy it.

    His own spell ruined, Gromph brought another to mind and said, “Well, everyone’s using the big spells today, aren’t we?”

    Can transform himself into:

    Dyrr finished his spell, and at first it looked as if the lich burst. He grew, ballooning up to twice, then three, then four times his normal size and bigger. He changed in every conceivable physical way and dropped from the air with a resounding crash that made the merchants scatter back past the edges of the Bazaar. Gromph watched the bystanders gape in awe and fear at what Dyrr had become.

    It’s a gigant, Nauzhror said. A blackstone gigant.

    Gromph sighed. He knew what it was that Dyrr had turned himself into.

    Under normal circumstances, a blackstone gigant was a construct, created by priestesses of any number of dark faiths to be used as servants, guardians, assassins, or instruments of war. Carved from solid blocks of stone, they were formidable creatures that could destroy a whole city if left unchecked. What Dyrr had done was change his form from his normally thin, aged drow frame to the form of a gigant. In the process he had become, for all intents and purposes, that new creature.

    @Commander Cross

    “But anyway, if we’re talking Post-Changes Dresden as of Cold Days onward, doesn’t he have a Force Field he can now also fire and attack with while still leaving it intact?”

    If this is his current version, sure why not?

    “All Without Wearing a Pumpkin might I add?”

    About that I need more info, before I can say anything.

  7. Friendlysociopath October 2, 2014 at 12:41 pm -      #7

    For the record, Blackstone Gigant stuff
    www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/mainlist2.pl?name=Blackstone_Gigant

    Namely, adamantine DR 15, (veeeeery damage resistant) general resistance to most elemental spells (20 for fire, acid, electricity and cold) and the ability to petrify an opponent, plus you know- big strong giant. STR is a whopping 45.
    Oh, and a spell resistance score of 32? Isn’t that really fucking high?

  8. Rookie October 2, 2014 at 12:46 pm -      #8

    @Friendlysociopath

    “Oh, and a spell resistance score of 32?! Isn’t that really fucking high?”

    Dyrr owned Gromph with that form. This is how this form of Dyrr was taken down:

    “She called directly upon Lolth, beseeching the restored goddess for her most potent spell, asking for nothing less than a miracle.

    Lolth didn’t answer in a drow’s voice as she had in the past. There were no words, only a feeling, a swelling of power, a rush of blood in the matron mother’s ears.

    Triel sank to her knees amid a scattering of rough gravel and broken glass and pressed her forehead to the cool ground. She didn’t express her desires in words. She didn’t have to. What she was working was a wave of emotion, of feeling, of pure fear.

    The terror of Lolth herself blasted out in all directions at once, in an expanding circle of fear with Triel at its center. All across the City of Spiders, drow stopped in their tracks, fell to their knees, or lay prone. Some leaned against walls or collapsed on stairs, but all of them knew the purest fear, the fear of a goddess, the fear of the eternal, the fear of chaos, the fear of darkness, the fear of the unknown, the fear of the certain, the fear of treason, and a thousand other horrors that brought the city to a full stop. Miracle, powerful enough to wipe the life from a small world, hit the gigant.

    The blackstone gigant trembled and broke apart. Triel, still kneeling below it, didn’t dodge the falling black boulders, the pieces of the titanic construct, which disappeared before they hit the ground. Within seconds all that was left of the rampaging creature was the lichdrow, stunned, reeling, kneeling on the crumbling floor of the Bazaar a few paces in front of the matron mother. The animated statues stopped moving and stood frozen in place.

    The wave of fear moved onward, past the walls of the city’s vault and into the crowded approaches to the Underdark beyond.
    It passed through the duergar lines, overtook the retreating tanarukks, and blindsided the scattered illithid spies. It affected all of them in different ways, but it affected all of them. By the time it was done—and it didn’t take long—there was no question, anywhere, that Lolth was back.

    Triel stood and surveyed the damage. She looked down at Dyrr and knew she could simply step over to him and kill him with a thought—or at least a dagger blade across his undead throat—but she didn’t. Killing the lich was someone else’s job.”

  9. Friendlysociopath October 2, 2014 at 12:57 pm -      #9

    @Rookie post #8
    So… Miracle? Damn, so it took a literal DnD God to stop that thing?

  10. Rookie October 2, 2014 at 1:00 pm -      #10

    @Friendlysociopath

    “Damn, so it took a literal DnD God to stop that thing?”

    Yeah, no kill like overkill, no? Still Dyrr survived… but this spell looks like a psy-based spell, so maybe he survived because he turn back into lich? What do you think?

    I will post stuff about Gromph soon.

  11. Friendlysociopath October 2, 2014 at 1:21 pm -      #11

    “Yeah, no kill like overkill, no? Still Dyrr survived… but this spell looks like a psy-based spell, so maybe he survived because he turn back into lich? What do you think?”

    Well undead are supposed to be immune to mind attacks so it would make sense. Although he’s a lich so it’s possible the spell just fear-shocked his ass straight back into his phylactery and ditched the body for a bit.

  12. Rookie October 2, 2014 at 1:29 pm -      #12

    About Gromph and his stuff:

    Something… holy? Why does he have it? You’re a drow, not some paladin! Show some class!

    He succeeded, though only barely. K’rarza’q was nearly within arm’s reach when the magic blazed into existence. A lance of holy light plunged into the netherspirit’s eye.

    The reeking creature dropped to the floor, its substance unraveling into shapeless clumps and tatters. Gromph smiled, and a dozen strands of spirit-stuff reared up at him like the vipers in his cursed sister’s whip.

    The archmage gripped the scarlet staff with both hands, just as a Master of Melee-Magthere had taught him centuries before, during the six months every student mage was obliged to spend in the warriors’ pyramid. Wielding the implement like a common spear, he thrust one end of it into what seemed to be K’rarza’q’s ragged, squirming core.

    The netherspirit burst into inert flecks of gray-black slime. Gromph’s protective enchantments prevented any of the splatter from fouling his own person.

    Dimension sword:

    Nimor beat his batlike wings and shot up into the darkness. Dyrr followed, more slowly, wrapping himself in additional protective spells.
    Gromph finished his spell and held his hands together. A line of blackness appeared between his palms and stretched to the length of a long sword blade. The line was perfectly two-dimensional, a rift in the structure of the planes,
    ///
    Lifting into the air, the Archmage of Menzoberranzan threw his hands apart, and the blade followed him up. Using the force of his will, Gromph set the planar blade flying in front of him. Choosing a target was simple.

    Nimor has to die first, Prath suggested, though it was unnecessary. The extent of his true abilities is the only unknown.

    Gromph set the blade hurtling at the half-dragon assassin. Nimor flew as fast as anything Gromph had ever seen fly, but the blade moved faster. It cut into the assassin, and Nimor convulsed in pain. What makes a blade sharp is the thinness of its edge. The blade that Gromph conjured didn’t actually have any thickness at all. Being perfectly thin, it was perfectly sharp. Anything that Nimor might have had on him to protect him from weapons would be of no consequence.

    Blood pattered down over the floor of the Bazaar, and Nimor roared. The sound rattled Gromph’s eardrums, though he didn’t hesitate to send the black blade at the assassin again—but it disappeared.

    Gromph whirled in midair to face the lichdrow. Dyrr held his staff in both hands. Gromph assumed he’d used some aspect of the weapon’s magic to dispel the blade Disappointing, Nauzhror commented. That was an impressive spell. And effective.

    Regeneration ring:
    He hit the ground hard enough to break a leg, more than a few ribs, his left arm, and very nearly his neck. Quivering from pain and shock, blinded by the relentless sunlight, Gromph lay in a heap on a bed of what felt like some kind of moss. Blood roared in his ears, which were still ringing from the whine of the meteors and the rush of wind. Something in his chest popped, and his leg twitched out from under him, rolling him over onto his back.

    Gromph put a hand over his face and realized that his broken arm was obeying his commands with only a little pain. His leg was numb and tingling, and he could actually feel his ribs popping back into place.

    The ring, he thought again.
    ///

    The pain in his leg began to fade and was replaced once more by pulses of nettling as it drew itself together. Concentrating on chasing the fleeing lich with his own fireball, Gromph didn’t see the blood that still surrounded him—his own blood—being soaked up by the skin of his leg. As it drew into his tissue, the blood itself warmed, and one by one the cells came back to life.
    ///
    The dagger was still in him, still in his heart, and Gromph lurched forward to sprawl on his stomach on the unforgiving floor of the Bazaar. The ring fought second by second to keep his heart intact, to keep it beating, to keep his blood flowing, but it did nothing for the pain. The archmage’s vision blurred, and when he tried to reach behind him to pull the dagger out of his back he could only twitch his arm uselessly at his side.
    ///
    Anti magic field:

    Only then did Gromph become aware that Dyrr was casting another spell. The response that came to Gromph’s mind was a powerful deterrent, one that would protect him where the staff’s globe could not. Not pausing to consider any greater implications, Gromph drew together the required Weave energy, and the antimagic field was up in time to block a huge explosion of searing heat and blinding fire.

    It also suppressed the regenerative power of the ring.

    No magic was working anywhere near Gromph Baenre, and his leg was only half repaired. He shuddered, clenching his jaw and eyes tightly shut as pain roared up from his leg to wrap his whole body in a spasm of agony.

    “Well played, my young friend,” the lich called down to him, “but that field will come down eventually. Meantime, you’ll be bleeding—and I’ll be waiting.”

    Gromph didn’t bother to consider the lich’s threat. He was in too much pain to think.

    Can take over enemy spells:

    Gromph mentally arranged spells, bringing the opening stanzas to mind, willing his fingers in advance to form the gestures. He kept one hand on his staff, knowing that its magic wasn’t gone but was simply suppressed, waiting the same way Dyrr’s fireball—and Dyrr himself—was waiting.

    He dropped the antimagic field, and in that same instant the globe burst back around him and the spell tripped rapidly past his lips. The bead of fire dropped out of its lazy orbit and shot at him as fast as a bolt from a crossbow, but Gromph’s spell was a split second faster. The spell enabled him to push the bead of fire away with a wave of invisible force. Using the power of his mind, Gromph seized control of the nascent fireball and sent it hurtling back at the lichdrow.

    Dyrr backed quickly away from it then turned and flew fast. Gromph kept the fireball racing toward the lich, gaining on him.

    Special pouch:

    Gromph managed to step away again, and again the assassin was taken aback by the archmage’s newfound reflexes. What Nimor didn’t know was that it wasn’t reflexes but foresight.
    Gromph reached into a pouch—an extradimensional space that held much more than it appeared capable of from the outside—and drew a weapon.

    Also have soul stealing axe.

  13. Warlock Lowk October 2, 2014 at 2:00 pm -      #13

    Dresden has a gun(Smith&Wesson 500) and is a pretty good shot
    i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/infamousColeMacgrath/Dresdenstuff/Dresdenaccuracy_zps08045e27.png?1412272001374&1412272002469

    I kind of skimmed but I noticed a bit of vs magic type defenses. What something like bullets?

  14. Warlock Lowk October 2, 2014 at 2:07 pm -      #14

    His gun is mentioned as being used for taking on big game.

  15. Friendlysociopath October 2, 2014 at 2:51 pm -      #15

    A bit biased but, D&D 3.5 rules have pistols doing about 1d6 damage per shot. It’s a flintlock pistol though. 1d6 damage is very little, but even multiplying it 5x
    (PSI of S&W.500 is 60,000 Flintlock is about 12,000)
    it would be 5d6, that’s not hard to deal with in terms of DnD damage. I know the rules don’t translate, but I figured it was worth pointing out.

    That said, magical defenses also include protection from physical attacks. And seeing as those spells can be used to deflect blows from several ton giants- I’d say they should prevent most of the damage from a pistol, if not all of it.
    Is his pistol magic?

  16. Rookie October 2, 2014 at 2:53 pm -      #16

    @Warlock Lowk

    “I kind of skimmed but I noticed a bit of vs magic type defenses. What something like bullets?”

    To be honest I don’t know. Magic defence supposed to stop things like arrows or cannon balls (they have those in FR now), but does Gromph or Dyrr have such magic defence on them all the time?
    So far I found only this solid info about Gromph magic defences against physical attacks:

    As he expected, the frenzied scratching failed to harm him. The enchantments woven into Gromph’s piwafwi—not to mention a ring and an amulet—armored him at least as well as a suit of plate. Still, it irked him that he had allowed the beast to get so close, and he felt more irritated still when he noticed that the creature’s exertions were flinging tiny smoking droplets of his own conjured acid onto his person.

    And this should not be enough to stop bullet IMO.

  17. Friendlysociopath October 2, 2014 at 3:01 pm -      #17

    “To be honest I don’t know. Magic defence supposed to stop things like arrows or cannon balls (they have those in FR now), but does Gromph or Dyrr have such magic defence on them all the time?”

    Pretty much, Wizards are a pretty ritualistic lot. Wake up in the morning, study, cast your regular spells to protect yourself (For Drow I imagine this is especially true) and then go about your day.

  18. Rookie October 2, 2014 at 3:16 pm -      #18

    @Friendlysociopath

    “Pretty much, Wizards are a pretty ritualistic lot. Wake up in the morning, study, cast your regular spells to protect yourself (For Drow I imagine this is especially true) and then go about your day.”

    At least if Dyrr go into his gigant thing, I doubt that gun will hurt him)))

    “Although he’s a lich so it’s possible the spell just fear-shocked his ass straight back into his phylactery and ditched the body for a bit.”

    I doubt that he was going into his phylactery at this time. He did fight against Gromph right after this.
    And it was never mentioned that he lost control or something, when Lolth hit him.

  19. Friendlysociopath October 2, 2014 at 3:16 pm -      #19

    Also, going off of this thread
    www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-gromph-baenre-floopay-vs-centurious-cadencev2-714518/#

    Gromph has used the spells:
    Prismatic spray
    Prismatic sphere
    Something to make himself ethereal
    Something to reflect spells back at the user
    Probably a Disintegrate beam
    an acidic spell that vaporizes an ogre
    and used Meteor Swarm

    Also, somewhere in the Lich fight there are supposedly saws that cut through obsidian. These saws wound Gromph through his defenses but not fatally.
    Again, just going off of that thread. I’ve got only 1 book where Gromph is mentioned and he does nothing in the book besides steal magic artifacts.

  20. Rookie October 2, 2014 at 3:24 pm -      #20

    @Friendlysociopath

    ” I’ve got only 1 book where Gromph is mentioned and he does nothing in the book besides steal magic artifacts.”

    You can read his almost entire fight against Dyrr in the first post in this match if you want.

    “and used Meteor Swarm”

    Yep, they both used it, this I remember.

    Also War of the Spider Queen is probably one of the best series about DnD. Right behind Haunted Lands and Brotherhood of Gryphon.
    Too bad, that the book series that takes place right after events of WoSQ is so shitty.

  21. Warlock Lowk October 2, 2014 at 4:34 pm -      #21

    “At least if Dyrr go into his gigant thing, I doubt that gun will hurt him)))”

    Dresden I also capable of channeling energy into his weapons o get a bigger bang.
    “Hey, Sharkface!” I shouted, stepping forward, gathering Winter and soulfire as I went.

    The furious Walker whirled back to me just in time to have the heavy, octagonal barrel of the Winchester slam through the ridge of bone that he had instead of front teeth, and drive all the way to the back of his mouth.

    “Get rocked,” I said, and pulled the trigger.

    Along with the .45-caliber bullet, I sent a column of pure energy and will surging down the barrel and into the Walker’s skull. His head exploded, literally exploded, into streamers and gobbets of black ichor. His cloak of rags went mad, throwing the headless body into the air and sending it thrashing through the shallow water like a half-squashed bug. Dark vapor began issuing from the frantically twitching body-then suddenly gathered into a single cloud, all in a rush, and shot away, emitting a furious and agonized and terrorized scream as it went, alien but unmistakable.
    Cold Day, pg 442
    ===
    Examples of how much force he can put out

    Tear a crater in the ground
    She stared up at me with uncomprehending eyes, black blood staining her mouth. “Cattle. You are c-cattle.”
    “Moo,” I said. And I lifted my right hand.
    Her eyes widened further. She gasped a word I didn’t know.
    From the corner of my eye, I saw the Red King rise from his distant throne.
    I poured all that was left of my fury into my hand and snarled, “No one touches my little girl.”
    The explosion of force and fire tore a crater in the ground seven feet across and half as deep.
    Arianna’s broken, headless corpse lay sprawled within it.”

    Changes, Chap 45
    ===
    Explosion that blast something into a granite cliff and shakes it loose
    Once more, I called upon the fire of Summer I’d taken in. I could feel its intensity beginning to ebb, but if the fetch managed to slip away I might never have such an opportunity again. Besides. That creature had tormented my friend’s wife and daughter, nearly murdered them right in front of my eyes, and now it was going to answer for it.

    So I unleashed the fire again, this time so brilliant that it lit dark mountainsides five or ten miles away, so hot that the blowing snow hissed into instant steam in the wake of the flame. When it struck the fetch, it detonated into a blinding conflagration, an explosion that roared so loudly that it shattered every icy replica of a rose vine upon the parapet.

    What tumbled burning from the faerie skies toward the merciless mountains below could not have been identified as anything in particular. It trailed sparks, soot, and ash, and when it slammed into a granite cliff side, it hit with such force that an icy rockslide was jarred loose from the mountain’s slope, burying the fetch under incalculable tons of stone.
    Proven Guilty, pg 39

    He’s not permanently channeling a courts power.

  22. Friendlysociopath October 2, 2014 at 5:35 pm -      #22

    “Examples of how much force he can put out
    Changes, Chap 45″

    A 7 foot wide crater that’s 3.5 feet deep?
    He’d better have way better feats than that, that’s like level 3 magic for D&D.

    “Explosion that blast something into a granite cliff and shakes it loose
    Proven Guilty, pg 39″

    Better, but isn’t it whatever he attacked that fell into the cliff and broke it apart?
    Also, fireworks can be seen for 20 miles easily, 10 isn’t much; and turning snow to steam doesn’t require extreme temperatures if I remember right. The loud boom though… how loud does an explosion have to be to break ice? Although since they’re replicas of rose vines they’re hardly sturdy unless evidence is presented otherwise.

  23. Jehrnkierthe October 2, 2014 at 6:59 pm -      #23

    “A 7 foot wide crater that’s 3.5 feet deep?
    He’d better have way better feats than that, that’s like level 3 magic for D&D.”
    Cratering solid earth like that is incredibly difficult, if the spell is treated like an explosion on the ground at the center of the crater it would take about 100 kg (220lb) of TNT to make one that size (cimec.org.ar/ojs/index.php/mc/article/viewFile/713/675), meanwhile if it’s treated as an impact of force it would take energy on the order of 400-500 kg (~1000lb) TNT equivalent (pirlwww.lpl.arizona.edu/~jmelosh/crater_c.cgi). No 3rd level D&D magic can create an explosion close to that, it’s comparable to meteor swarm at least… and consider that while a small-caliber pistol only does 1d6 damage in D&D, a single pound of dynamite does 2d6.

  24. Friendlysociopath October 2, 2014 at 7:18 pm -      #24

    “No 3rd level D&D magic can create an explosion close to that, it’s comparable to meteor swarm at least”

    I was thinking more in AoE than damage, Wizards fly around during duels and Gromph has boots of speed meaning he moves faster. So either you have to be a good shot or hit around them.
    Explosive energy isn’t really mentioned in D&D, so I wasn’t basing it off of that.

  25. Jake_Uzumaki October 2, 2014 at 7:28 pm -      #25

    that’s actually fairly causal force firepower for Dresden, and he’s dealt with guys resistant to magic before. Such as the Genoskwa aka Bigfoot…only this Bigfoot was also amped by one of the 30 Fallen Angels Satan himself was worried would back stab him and be more than capable of taking him down…he used force plus formed projectiles of solid ice to hurt it, while fighting off another Fallen Angel and the most powerful in the band of 30. This same beast also no sold his magic earlier because of autogrounding magic spells.

    ” The Genoskwa let out a roar, and I knew it was coming right at me. I couldn’t move without stepping into that smothering blackness and that seemed like a horrible idea, so instead I folded my arms across my chest, and muttered, “Let’s see you ground this, ugly.” Then I called upon Winter, and cried out, “Arctispinae!”
    I expanded my arms out explosively, and as I did, slivers of Winter cold froze the water in the air into hundreds of spines of needle-pointed ice that exploded out from me, into the darkness and beyond. No magic attached itself to the spines of ice once they had been formed—they simple became sharp, hurtling pieces of solid matter. I was betting that whatever power the Genoskwa had to negate the effects of directly applied magic, it still had to follow the laws of magic as I understood them.
    The bet paid off. The Genoskwa let out another ear-shattering roar of pain from no more than seven or eight feet away.
    I used the sound as a point of reference and whirled my staff in a swooping arc, its green-silver soulfire-infused light driving back the substance of the Fallen angel still trying to compress upon me. My will gathered more Winter ice around the end of my staff in an irregular globe around the size of my head and harder than stone, and cried, “Forzare!”
    A lance of pure kinetic energy flung the hailstone from the end of my staff and out through the darkness like a cannonball, and it hit something with an enormous and meaty-sounding thunk of obdurate ice against muscle-dense flesh. I must have gotten him in the breadbasket, because instead of roaring, the Genoskwa let out a windy, seething sound. ”
    Skin Game pg 352

    The effect on the cannonball ice.
    “Not far away, the Genoskwa was rising from where he had fallen. The hailstone I’d conjured had apparently knocked him backward over the marble block in the center of the stage, and one side of his rib cage looked distorted. The creature crouched on three limbs, his leg dragging, and bared his teeth at me in a silent snarl, yellowed tusks showing.”
    Skin Game pg 353
    ————
    So are these guys as durable as giant 9 foot Demonic Grizzly Bear Bigfoot hybrids? Cause that was a literal shot in the dark and he hit in the breadbasket with enough force to visibly fuck up it’s rib cage and break a leg.

  26. Jake_Uzumaki October 2, 2014 at 7:32 pm -      #26

    On the defensive side

    Dresden is able to ground another persons magic when they are charging it up. First doing it to a Lycanthrope as she draws on her power.
    ” “Hello there, Mr. Parker,” I called cheerfully. I suppose that the image I presented as I walked toward them would have been comic—except for all the blood, and the big smile I felt spreading over my face. It seemed to have a somewhat intimidating effect on the Streetwolves at any rate. The woman snarled at me, and for a second I could feel a wild, savage energy, the same that had surrounded the frenzying lycanthropes at the Full Moon Garage, starting to build in the air around me.
    I gave the bitch an annoyed look and slashed my hand at the air, drawling, “Disperdorus.” I forced out an effort of will I might have found daunting on another night, one when I was feeling a little less all-powerful, and the woman jerked back as though I had slapped her in the mouth. The energy she had been gathering fractured and flew apart as though it had never been. She stared at me, growing tense and nervous, and reached a hand toward a knife in a case at her hip ”
    Fool Moon pg 113

    Later without even needing a word does it to his apprentice to be.

    “She spun to me and shrieked, “I did not hurt them!”
    The air suddenly crackled with tension; vague, unfocused energy centered on the screaming girl. There was enough energy to manage something unfortunate, and it was clear that the kid wasn’t in anything like control of her power. I shook my head and swung my left hand in a half circle, palm faced out, and simply drew in the magical energy her emotions had generated and grounded it into the earth before somebody got hurt.
    A tingle of sensation washed up my arm, surprisingly intense. Her talent was not a modest one.”
    Proven Guilty, Chap 41

    Light spell defense plus soulfire able to hold back the raw power and malice of a Fallen Angel.

    “At the same moment, Nicodemus flung both his arms forward, and a terrible, smothering darkness came slamming down upon me.
    I’d had two possible responsis to his first attack in mind–and they had to be responses, not assaults of my own. When all this was over, I wanted there to be absolutely no question in Mab’s mind that he had turned on me, not the other way around. He might have come at me with his sword–it was how henormally preferred to do business in every case that I had seen. A shield would have held him off, at least for a time.
    Or, in his rage, he might unleash the full malice of Anduriel upon me. Which he had done.
    This was not a normal circumstance for Nicodemus.
    I’d prepared the proper defense.
    “Lumios!” I shouted, as the darkness closed in, and I poured my will into the same light spell I’d used earlier–only I added a measure of soulfire into the mix.
    The light leapt forth in a sphere and exploded into sparks as it collided with something that simply devoured it, swallowing it into nothingness as it streamed forth. The effect was damned odd-looking, from the inside. Light poured forth to be enveloped by a slithering blackness all around me, something that recoiled from the sparks and then came surging back in their wake with frenzied agitation–but the darkness could reach no closer than just beyond the reach of my arm.”

  27. Jake_Uzumaki October 2, 2014 at 7:39 pm -      #27

    Can now fire through his shield allowing him to keep up the bubble shield while still flinging raw power at people. This time he hits the target with the force of a high speed Garbage Truck. She only survived due to Fallen Angel aid and wizards being slightly less squishy than vanilla mortals.

    “The second sphere came flying at me and I countered by lifting my staff and shouting, “Defendarius!” A broad wall of force shimmered into being in front of me, and the sphere smashed into it and exploded into a cloud of flame that spread out along its length and breadth, as if seeking a way around it. The heat was viciously intense, and enough of it would have burned through the shield–but it was a question of volume. Ascher had struck at me with pinpoint precision and intensity. I’d countered her with raw power, using a shield big enough to spread the heat over a wide enough area to keep it from burning through.
    Ascher let out a snarl of frustration and hurled another sphere. Her thinking was obvious—if she could keep pouring fire onto me and force me to hold up the shield against it, eventually she could either burn through it or exhaust my ability to keep holding it up. I’d have taken that fight against a lot of top practitioners: There are relatively few wizards on the White Council who can stay with me in terms of pure magical horsepower. But while there are plenty of wizards who could wear themselves out pounding on my shields, I had a pretty solid intuition that Ascher could keep throwing fire until I was a heap on the ground, especially with Lasciel’s knowledge and experience backing her up. Worse, Lasciel knew me, inside and out.”
    Skin Game 370

    After a brief sentence about learning new tricks

    Showing off kinetic force power with his new staff. And it’s many kinetic storing runes…which store energy whenever the staff moves. And firing it through his shield while keeping it up. So he can play defense and offense at the same time now.

    ” In the past, I’d worn rings designed to store a little excess kinetic energy every time I moved my arm. Then I could let loose the saved energy all in one place to pretty devastating effect when I really needed to do it. I hadn’t had the resources I needed to make new rings, but I’d carved the same spell in my new wizard’s staff.
    Seventy-seven times.
    It wasn’t as handy as my layered rings had been–instead of being broken into multiple units, the energy of the spell was all stored in one reservoir, so I only had the one shot.
    But it was a doozy.
    So as another white-hot sphere splashed into flame against my shield, I whirled the butt end of the staff where the energy storage spells were carved toward Ascher, focused my concentration on the shield, braced my feet, and shouted, “Arietius!”
    The staff bucked in my hands like a living thing and shoved my shoes several inces across the floor as the stored energy unleashed itself and drove into the rear of my shield. For a second, I worried about the staff shattering–I had never tried it with this much stored energy before, and there was always the chance that I had exceeded the design tolerance of the spell at some point. If I had, I would be the center of my own spectacular and splintery explosion. But my work was good and the staff functioned perfectly. I held the structure of the shield together and let the energy from the staff drive it forward, toward Ascher, and suddenly a large, obdurate, and extremely solid invisible wall was rushing at her like an oncoming freight train, shedding a trail of fire in its wake.
    I had never lowered the shield, and my actions had been obscured by all the fire chewing away at it–so Ascher recognized the danger a second too late, and that was where her inexperience showed. She might have real power and a gift with fire, but in a fight there’s no time to think your way through spells and counterspells. Either you’ve done your homework or you haven’t, and despite the advantage of having Lasciel in her corner, Ascher wasn’t ready for something like this. She was focused entirely on offense, not on protecting herself as well, and couldn’t come up with a counter in time.
    The wall hit her with the same force as an oncoming garbage truck, and blew her right out of the veil of purple mist that clung to her naked form. She flew back off the stage in a windmill of flailing limbs, and crashed into a display of particularly fine ecclesiastical robes and garments, most of which burst into flame as the sheath of shimmering heat around her body brushed up against them.”

  28. Jehrnkierthe October 2, 2014 at 7:43 pm -      #28

    My point was that the energy required to create a 7-foot diameter crater is orders of magnitude higher than that to merely create a 7-foot diameter blast; Dresden’s spell does the former.
    He also regularly battles enemies with supernatural speed and reflexes, some of which run at upwards of 50 mph (in reference to Lara in Turn Coat), so I doubt that boots of speed or aerial maneuvers will be too much of a challenge for him.

  29. Jake_Uzumaki October 2, 2014 at 7:50 pm -      #29

    aand I have a post in moderation…anyway.

    He can fire faster balls of ice than the head sized ones specifically the size of apples but faster than a major league pitch.
    “I hadn’t had time to get together as much ice as I’d used on the first two, but the hailstone that hit him was the size of a very large apple and moving considerably faster than a major-league fastball. It didn’t break when it hit. Nicodemus did. There was a wet thump of impact when it hit him in the left side, below the ribs, and he went up onto his toes in reaction, his body drawing to one side in a bow of pain. Then he staggered to one side and fell to a knee”
    Skin Game pg 373

    doing another one.
    “Nicodemus’s eyes widened, but he turned his body to shield the Grail, and the hailstone struck him in the right shoulder blade. He let out another breathless cry–and then sudden blackness engulfed him and a tide of shadow swept him away.”
    Skin Game pg 374

    Redirecting a lance of pure Hellfire, after examining all his options. Keep in mind the opening a Way option is viable here.

    “There was no time to think. I ran on instinct. I couldn’t shield a blast of flame infused with Hellfire, the demonic version of soulfire. Hellfire enormously increased the destructive potential of magic. When Lasciel’s shadow had been inside me, I’d used it. If I’d had my last shield bracelet, I might have parried most of it, but even that wouldn’t have been enough to stop it cold.
    Couldn’t counter it with Winter. If I flung ice out to stop the fire, they would form steam, and the Hellfire would flow right into that, and continue on its way. same result only I’d be steam-cooked instead of roasted.
    Once or twice in my life, I’d been able to open a Way in front of me, fast enough to divert an incoming attack away from me, into the Nevernever or out into somehwere else in the mortal world. But from here, in the secured vault, there was no way I was going to be able to open a Way—not until I got back out beyond the first gate again.
    Fire was hard to deal with. Infuse it with Hellfire and it was almost unstoppable.
    So I didn’t even try to stop it.
    Instead, I redirected it.
    As the strike hurtled toward me, I lifted my staff in my right hand, whirling it back and forth in front of my body in a figure-eight spin and sent my will racing through the staff, infused with soulfire to counter the Fallen angel’s Hellfire, shouting, “Ventas Cyclis!”
    A howling, whirling torrent of wind whipped out of my staff, spiraling tightly in on itself as the Hellfire reached it. There was a flash of light, a thunderous detonation, and the sharp scent of ozone as the two diametrically opposed energies met and warred. The spinning vortex of wind caught the violet fire and bent it upward toward the distant ceiling of the vault, slewing back and forth, a gushing geyser of unearthly flame.
    The effort to control that wind was tremendous but even though the fire came within a few feet, the rush of air moving away from me prevented the thermal bloom from cooking me where I stood. My defense carried the entire power of the strike up to the roof of the cavern, wher it splashed and danced and rolled out in vast circular waves
    It was actually damned beautiful.
    Ascher let out a short snarl of frustration as the last of the strike flashed upward. I released the wind spell but kept my staff spinning slowly, ready to counter a second time if I had to do it. Ascher had plenty of anger still raging in her, and she drew on it to gather more fire to her hands.”
    Skin Game pgs 377-378

  30. Jake_Uzumaki October 2, 2014 at 7:59 pm -      #30

    also it should be noted that during these Skin Games feats with the Fallen Angel gang, Dresden is in a location that has higher gravity than normal so…should be taken into account that those projectiles he launches will be moving far faster and farther without that heavier gravity.

    anyway.
    deflecting, and shielding against molten rock.

    ” And then with a cry she sent another lance of Hellfire at me, redoubled in strength.
    Again, I caught it with a conjured cyclone infused with soulfire, though the effort was even more tremendous. Again I sent it spiraling up toward the ceiling–but this time I sent it all to one spot.
    Even before the last of the Hellfire had smashed into the ceiling, I dropped to one knee, lifted my staff, and extended the strongest shield I could project, putting it between me and Ascher. It was a calculated bit of distraction on my part, giving her something she wasn’t psychologically equipped to ignore. She screamed at me, her eyes furious, gathering more fire in her hands, seeing only a passive target, weakened and fallen to one knee, one she could smash to bits with a third and final strike—but I saw Lasciel’s glowing eyes widen in sudden dismay and understanding as the Fallen reached her own comprehension of consequences and a few portions of a second too late to do any good.
    An instant later, several hundred tons of molten and red-hot rock, chewed from the earth above us by Ascher’s own Hellfire-infused strike, came crashing down on top of her.
    The noise was terrible. The destruction was appalling. Glowing hot stones bounced from my shield and then began to pile up against it, pushing at me and physically forcing me back across the ground. The pileup shoved me a good twenty feet across the amphitheater floor, with Michael hobbling frantically along a couple of feet ahead of me, crouching to take advantage of the protection of my shield.”
    Skin Game 380

    There was enough stone involved to fill half the amphitheater and build up to the thighs of a large statue. And the stones were falling not quite the way they would in Earth’s gravity as stated here (this is just the gravity thing though)
    “A few last stones fell, clattering over the mess, bouncing. I noted, dimly, that their arches didn’t look the way they should have. Gravity was indeed something heavier here than in the physical world. ”
    Skin Game 381

  31. Jake_Uzumaki October 2, 2014 at 8:13 pm -      #31

    currently has a reflexive shield
    ” I had just gotten back from the small gym, where’d I’d hiked about four miles up and I don’t know how many miles forward on the elliptical machine. I was sweaty and exhausted and thinking about a shower and then bed again. I opened the door to my quarters, and when I did, Mab opened fire with a freaking shotgun.
    I didn’t have time to think or calculate before she pulled the trigger. All I could do was react. I flung myself back, slammed my will out into the air ahead of me, coalescing it into a barrier of pure energy. The gun roared, deafening in the enclosed space. Buckshot slammed against the barrier and bounced, scattering everywhere, landing with pops and rattles. I hit the floor, keeping the barrier up, and Mab advanced, her eyes glittering through every shade of opal, wild and ecstatic and incongruous against her otherwise calm expression.
    It was one of those Russian-designed shotguns with the big drum magazine, and she poured all of it into me, aiming for my face.
    The second the gun went click instead of boom, I flung myself to one side in a swift roll, just in time to avoid the pounce of a silver-grey malk—a feline creature about the size of a bobcat with wicked claws and the strength of a small bear. It landed where my head had been, its claws gouging chips from the stone floor.
    I kicked the malk with my heel and sent him flying across the hall and into the stone wall. He hit with a yowl of protest. I whirled my attention back to Mab as she dropped one drum magazine on the floor and produced another.
    Before she could seat it in the weapon, I slashed at the air with my hand and shouted, “Forzare!” Unseen force lashed out and ripped the magazine and the shotgun alike from her hands. I made a yanking motion, and the bouncing shotgun abruptly shot across the empty space between us. I grabbed it by the barrel (which was freaking hot) just as the malk recovered and leapt at me again. I swung the empty shotgun two-handed and slammed the malk in the skull, hard enough to knock it from the air and leave it senseless on the floor.
    Mab let out a delighted, silvery laugh and clapped her hands like a little girl who has just been told she’s getting a pony. “Yes!” she said. “Lovely. Brutal, vicious, and lovely.” ”
    —————————————————–
    a sample of his ice magic
    ” I hurled my will through my body, drawing forth the frigid purity of Winter, calling, “Infriga!”
    Howling wind and cold engulfed the nascent fires. And the floor around where the fires had been. And the walls. And, um, the ceiling.
    I mean, pretty much every nonliving surface in the place was completely covered in a layer of frost half an inch thick.”

  32. Jake_Uzumaki October 2, 2014 at 8:16 pm -      #32

    shield feat from back in the first book, his ability to make shields has gotten better sense then, but gives a decent idea of what he’s able to block

    “The elevator hurtled up and up and up, and I could feel my face sagging down with the speed of it. My office building is twelve stories high. We’d started at the second floor, so assuming an average of nine feet per story, it was almost a hundred feet to the building’s roof.”
    Stating height of the building.
    “There was a little groan from the elevator, and then it shuddered, and started sliding back down the shaft, no longer supported by the powerful but short-lived pillar of wind that had driven it up there. We were falling back down the way we had come, and I had the feeling that we weren’t going to have a much better time of it at the bottom than the scorpion had at the top.
    Now was the time for the bracelet, and I didn’t waste a heartbeat grabbing Murphy close to me, and bringing the shield into being around us. I only had a couple of seconds to focus, to think – I couldn’t make the globe around us too brittle, too strong, or we’d just smash ourselves against the inside of it in the same way we would if we just rode the elevator down. There had to be some give to it, some flexibility, to distribute the tremendous force of the abrupt stop at the first floor.
    It was dark, and there wasn’t much time. Murphy and I rose up to the center of the space of the elevator while I pushed the shield out all around us, filled up the space with layer after layer of flexible shielding, semicohesive molecules of air, patterns of force meant to spread the impact around. There was a sense of pressure all around me, as though I had been abruptly stuffed in Styrofoam packing peanuts.
    We fell, faster and faster. I sensed the bottom of the shaft coming. There was an enormous sound, and I held on to the shield with all of my might.
    When I opened my eyes again, I was sitting on the floor of the shattered, devastated elevator, holding a sagging, unconscious Murphy. The elevator doors gave a warped, gasping little ding, then shuddered open.”

    altogether the shield was calced as tanking 381,398.52 Joules of energy or 381.398 Newtons of Force. And again, he’s gotten better and more powerful over time, far more powerful.

  33. Jake_Uzumaki October 2, 2014 at 8:19 pm -      #33

    Is there gravity spells in team ones universe? Because Dresden is….decent with them.

    example of his gravity spell, keep in mind he’s not really good with earth magic like this, but then again when your trying to turn something into pulp you don’t need to be good with the hammer, you just need to smash it hard enough.

    ” At the very last second, the vampire seemed to sense something. It turned its head toward me.
    I clenched my fist as I released my will and snarled, “Gravitus!”
    The magic lashed out into the ground beneath the vampire’s feet, and the steady, slow, immovable power of the earth suddenly stirred, concentrating, reaching up for the vampire standing upon it. In technical terms, I didn’t actually increase the gravity of the earth beneath it. I only concentrated it a little. In a circle fifty yards across, for just a fraction of a second, gravity vanished. The cars all surged up against their shock absorbers and settled again. The thin coat of snow leapt several inches off the parking lot and fell back.
    In that same fraction of a second, all of that gravity from all of that area concentrated itself into a circle, maybe eighteen inches across, directly at the vampire’s feet.
    There was no explosion, no flash of light—and no scream. The vampire just went down, slammed to the earth as suddenly and violently as if I’d dropped an anvil on it. There was a rippling, crackling sound as hundreds of bones shattered all together, and a splatter of sludgy liquid that splashed all over the cars around the vampire—mostly upon the Beetle, really.
    Side Jobs: IT’S MY BIRTHDAY, TOO
    —————————————————–
    second example of the gravity spell

    ” “Gravitus!” I thundered, releasing a second earthcrafting.
    Once again, everything jumped up—but this time, it wasn’t quiet. The circle of nullified gravity embraced every shop nearby in the mall, sending merchandise and shelves and dishes and furniture and cash registers and dressing dummies and God knew what other sundry objects flying up, to come crashing back down to the floor again. A great uproar of hundreds of impacts came down from the floors above us as well.
    Once again, the circle of supergravity crushed a brown-shirted vampire flat to the floor—only I’d forgotten about the levels above. There was a shriek of tortured metal, and a great crashing rain of debris came down in a nearly solid column as floors and ceilings gave way under the sudden, enormous stress. It all thundered down on the pulped vampire.
    There was a second of shocked silence, while objects continued falling from their shelves and bins and who knew what else. Evidently, the damage to the ceiling had torn through some plumbing; a steady stream of water began to patter down from overhead onto the mound of rubble, along with occasional bits of still-falling material. ”
    Side Jobs: IT’S MY BIRTHDAY, TOO

    And these were his small scale versions.

  34. Warlock Lowk October 2, 2014 at 8:26 pm -      #34

    “Better, but isn’t it whatever he attacked that fell into the cliff and broke it apart?”

    It was sent into that hard by the blast.
    ====
    “I was thinking more in AoE than damage, Wizards fly around during duels and Gromph has boots of speed meaning he moves faster. So either you have to be a good shot or hit around them.”

    Aside from the scan of him head shotting a vamp. He Manages to hit the small panels on cars that enter the gas tank.
    “”All right,” Susan whispered, as she began clipping us a way in, cutting a wire only when the gusting wind reached a crescendo and covered the sound of the clippers at work, then waiting for the next gust. “Where’s that distraction?”

    I winked at her, lifted my blasting rod, thrust it between links of fence in front of us, and aimed carefully. Then I checked the tower guard, to be sure he was looking away, and whispered, “Fuego, fuego, fuego, fuego.”

    Tiny spheres of sullen red light flickered out across the compound and into the parking lot opposite. My aim had been good. The little spheres hissed and melted their way through the rear quarter panel of several vehicles and burned on into the fuel tanks beneath.

    The results were predictable. A gas tank explosion isn’t as loud as an actual bomb going off, but when you’re standing a few yards away from it, it could be hard to tell. There were several hollow booming sounds, and light blazed up from the cars that had been hit as flames roared up and consumed them.”
    Changes, Chap 17

    Also He’s no stranger to AoE blast
    i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/infamousColeMacgrath/Dresdenstuff/Dresdenblast_zps0df5494a.png

  35. Warlock Lowk October 2, 2014 at 8:29 pm -      #35

    And earlier in series Dresden. Witch skin is like tank armor.
    i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/infamousColeMacgrath/Dresdenstuff/tankarmorskin.jpg

    His fire spell while at the time was not enough to take her out completely is enough to take out her tank armor like skin
    i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/infamousColeMacgrath/Dresdenstuff/blastingwitch1.jpg
    i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/infamousColeMacgrath/Dresdenstuff/blastingwitch2.jpg
    i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/infamousColeMacgrath/Dresdenstuff/harryquickthinking.jpg
    i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/infamousColeMacgrath/Dresdenstuff/quickthinking.jpg

  36. Jake_Uzumaki October 2, 2014 at 8:29 pm -      #36

    big scale Gravity Hammer

    “Once I had the raw magic I needed, I was able to pull my mind clear of the ley line, and I was suddenly holding a whirlwind of molten stone in my head, seething against the containment of my will until it felt like my skull would burst outward from the pressure, and realized as I did that the use to which I was putting this pure, raw energy was almost childish in its simplicity. I was a frail wisp of mortality beside that energy, which could, quite literally, have moved mountains, leveled cities, shifted the course of rivers, and stirred oceans in their beds.
    +
    I set that well of energy to spinning, and directed its power as it spiraled up, a tornado of magic that reached out to embrace simple gravity. With the enormous energy of the ley line, I focused the pull of the earth for miles around into a circle a couple of hundred yards across and spoke a single word as I unleashed the torrent of energy, bound only, firmly if imperfectly, by my will. The spell, start to finish, had taken me a good sixty seconds to put together, and tapping into the ley line had been the last part of the process – far too long and far too destructive to use in any of the faster and more furious fights that I’d found myself in over the years.
    +
    Perfect for tonight.
    +
    For a quarter of a second, gravity vanished from Chichén Itzá, and the land for miles all around it, jerking everything that wasn’t fastened down, myself included, several inches into the air. For that time, all of that force was focused and concentrated into a circle perhaps two hundred yards across that embraced the entire gallery and every vampire inside it. There, the enormous power of that much focused gravity, nearly three hundred times normal, slammed everyone and everything straight down, as if crushed by a single, gigantic, invisible anvil.”
    Changes, Chap 42

  37. Jehrnkierthe October 2, 2014 at 8:30 pm -      #37

    For the fire blast that Dresden redirected:
    0.84 J/gK * 700K (difference between room temp and average lava temp) * 300,000,000 g rock (estimate of 300 tons) =~ 180,000,000,000 J
    Which is 42 tons of TNT.
    Now, not all of the falling rock was molten, some only ‘red-hot’, but even a fraction of that amount of energy is far larger than any magic-user’s spell I’ve heard of in D&D/FR. Dresden is at least as powerful as Ascher, granted he isn’t currently amped up by a Fallen angel, but again it shows that the spells he deals with are orders of magnitude apart from those that FR wizards do.

  38. Warlock Lowk October 2, 2014 at 8:32 pm -      #38

    So would using Ganondorf’s magic to help boost Dresden’s power be like hellfire or something else? Would it conflict with the soulfire?

  39. Jake_Uzumaki October 2, 2014 at 8:37 pm -      #39

    HellFire vs Soulfire is just switching from bake to roast on the oven.
    Now if we were talking conflicting with Winter juice we’d have a problem as Winter + Summer in one body = AntiMatter bomb the size of a human which kills everyone involved…
    That said doesn’t Ganon have seriously high end TK could he hold team one in place while Dresden roasts/freezes/electrocutes/gravity hammers/force blasts/some combination there of the two till they stop moving?

    @Jehrnkierthe
    Damn, that is serious firepower, no pun intended. Also while Dresden isn’t amped by a Fallen Angel he does have the Winter Mantle which should let him get pretty damn close to the same temp considering his expertise with fire, not as good as Ascher but close.

  40. Jake_Uzumaki October 2, 2014 at 9:00 pm -      #40

    Flash roasts two Vampires then immediately neck snaps the third
    1.bp.blogspot.com/-H5j21dscZyk/U5ChpJKtU0I/AAAAAAADmmg/Kb0-NK4gEdg/s1600/-017.jpg

    an idea of what DF wizards on Dresden’s level, really a bit lower than him in some ways are capable of

    sending human sized targets sailing through the air with what amounts to gestures.
    4.bp.blogspot.com/-A17JTXV3QvA/U5ChqUtCRaI/AAAAAAADmnA/yuzDJtLuNzY/s1600/-019.jpg

    general abilities
    2.bp.blogspot.com/-YuxzYvvslv4/U5Chs8DbwAI/AAAAAAADmnQ/lO5rMgEDHXY/s1600/-024.jpg
    4.bp.blogspot.com/-R6q1FUechog/U5Cht3GXF3I/AAAAAAADmnk/e0QQbPvvuH4/s1600/-025.jpg

  41. Jake_Uzumaki October 2, 2014 at 9:14 pm -      #41

    Dresden and the Wardens in combat Dresden specific feats include creating a large area mist, roasting vampires, using their speed against them by making them leap into solid invisible walls
    3.bp.blogspot.com/-iSIIE-DcmdQ/U-c786KrueI/AAAAAAAEb94/S8Sji2CiQGo/s1600/-006.jpg
    3.bp.blogspot.com/-CcD9FNU1QVo/U-c79Y4iOQI/AAAAAAAEb-A/_1-0nr8JYBI/s1600/-007.jpg
    3.bp.blogspot.com/-UrznF0d2M2s/U-c79t3Yg8I/AAAAAAAEb-Y/97-3zQGDQhs/s1600/-008.jpg
    3.bp.blogspot.com/-MAk51_uEO3Y/U-c798KGFvI/AAAAAAAEb-M/OzAcZ4phFSM/s1600/-009.jpg
    4.bp.blogspot.com/-SxS-7LqbhII/U-c8DPqBu7I/AAAAAAAEb_g/IcNVLiFUFPU/s1600/-018.jpg
    to be continued

  42. Jake_Uzumaki October 2, 2014 at 9:20 pm -      #42

    roasting multiple vampires
    4.bp.blogspot.com/-SxS-7LqbhII/U-c8DPqBu7I/AAAAAAAEb_g/IcNVLiFUFPU/s1600/-018.jpg

    force blasting multiple vamps, and frying a vamp
    3.bp.blogspot.com/-Cy8-VwcxLCI/U-c8DmQ_lqI/AAAAAAAEb_o/vQOyKKIcUCk/s1600/-019.jpg

    One of the Wardens showing what a Dresden level wind spell is capable of.
    4.bp.blogspot.com/-bpIaW4kcJdY/U-c8D9zPHtI/AAAAAAAEb_s/d-NRm_giB8o/s1600/-020.jpg

    Force blasting multiple vamps again
    2.bp.blogspot.com/-03GwS-nki-M/VAvA5RdeBqI/AAAAAAAEuoI/SqQcfJg5Xnw/s1600/-003.jpg

    more vamp killing force
    3.bp.blogspot.com/-sGb3hXt3ltU/VAvA7MPN4vI/AAAAAAAEuoc/GXLgtO24ccY/s1600/-006.jpg

  43. Jake_Uzumaki October 2, 2014 at 9:33 pm -      #43

    stopping multiple humans dead in their tracks and sending humans flying with force
    2.bp.blogspot.com/-2Ne-A011Big/VAvBAbVK9FI/AAAAAAAEupg/QFPDPNNTr9Y/s1600/-016.jpg

    Dresden’s batshit insane enough that stage two of plan fuck an army of vampires and ex special forces soldiers with 4 wizards a starving incubus and a couple armed librarians is unleash a city busting eldritch abomination with no loyalties despite the presence of humans on both sides….just saying Baenre and Dyrr are dealing with someone who will do the stupidest most insane plan possible when he has to. This man looks gods in the eyes and spits at them, tells Fallen Angels they don’t have balls, rode a Zombie T-Rex through downtown Chicago against an army of Zombies that could make the T-800 blush to stop a man from becoming a god, and has looked two high tier soldiers of Yog Sogoth in the face and won the fight head to head. A small army of equal powered Wardens were scared shitless at the idea of trying to arrest him when they had him surrounded and were backed by two of the most powerful wizards in universe because he’s that unpredictable and that crazy.
    3.bp.blogspot.com/-qe-2KkfFnP4/VAvBCZcwmPI/AAAAAAAEuqE/cslrxERaDeA/s1600/-021.jpg
    1.bp.blogspot.com/-gU7VYyA6Bv8/VAvBDEU4kyI/AAAAAAAEuqM/zDCoVO9NntQ/s1600/-022.jpg

  44. Commander Cross October 2, 2014 at 9:35 pm -      #44

    I know that TP Ganondorf has enhanced Zant’s powers before the game began, but I can’t exactly remember the specified parts on where it happened.

    Pardon the Crudeness but Where the Hell is Draco when you need him? :mad:

    Also, which LoZ Game with Ganondorf in it did the TK get mentioned?
    I can’t recall anything beyond that scene in Ocarina of Time with N64 Link seeing the Castle in front of him.

    ___

    If I also recall correctly, Ganondorf even during TP has Insane Endurance to say the least.

  45. Warlock Lowk October 2, 2014 at 9:44 pm -      #45

    So it would seem Jake has also seen a bit of War Cry.

  46. Jake_Uzumaki October 2, 2014 at 10:10 pm -      #46

    I just read through the comics today, went back and read through them to find the feats.

  47. Friendlysociopath October 2, 2014 at 10:49 pm -      #47

    Dude, couldn’t you have shown some restraint? There’s so damn much to read!

  48. Numinous One October 2, 2014 at 11:10 pm -      #48

    “There would be no more protection from the skull sapphire and no more stored necromancies. Gromph knew it had taken a wish to destroy it.

    So I noticed Dyrr has Wish in his spell arsenal, can Dresden counter that?
    I doubt Ganondorf has anything that will.

  49. Jake_Uzumaki October 2, 2014 at 11:24 pm -      #49

    I looked Wish up on the FR wiki and it says it can vary from copying spells to low level reality warping, Dresden has dealt with mid-low high tier reality warping that said he wasn’t able to use his arms by using Soulfire.

    “I tried to move my limbs and found them numbed and only partially functional. I started trying to get them to flip me over so that I could get my feet under me.”
    and here
    “Mother Winter was holding me down by pure, stark will. The Leaders of the Red Court had been ancient creatures with a similar power, but that had been a vague, smothering blanket that had made it impossible to move or act, a purely mental effort.
    This felt like something similar, but far more focused, more developed, as if thought had somehow crystallized into tangibility. My wrists and ankles wouldn’t move because Mother Winter’s will said that was how reality worked. It was like magic—-but magic took a seed, a kernel of will and built up a framework of other energies around that seed. It took intense practice to focus to make that happen, but at the end of the day anyone’s will was only part of the spell, alloyed with other energy into something else.
    What held me down now was pure, undiluted will—the same kind of will that I suspected backed up events presaged by phrases like “Let there be light.” It was far more than human, beyond simple physical strength, and if I’d been the Incredible Hulk, I was pretty sure there was no way I’d have been able to tear myself free.”

    Reality Warping godlike will holding him down, literally saying your limbs don’t work because I say so. The being doing this is Mother Winter aka Hecate possibly aka Atropos and Skuld, a fudamental force of the DF universe and a true immortal.

    “And in this case, in this moment, I somehow knew exactly what soulfire did. It converted me, my core, everything that made me who I was, into energy, into light. When I turned my joined will and the blazing core of my being together, I wasn’t supercharging a magical spell. I wasn’t cleverly finding a weak point in an enchantment. I wasn’t using my knowledge of magic to exploit what the enemy was doing.
    I was casting everything I had done, everything I believed, everything I had chosen—-everything I was—against the will of an ancient being of darkness, terror, and malice, a fundamental power of the world.
    And the bonds of the will of Mother Winter could not constrain me.
    There was a sharp, shimmering tone, like metal under stress and beginning to fail, but more musical, and a blinding white light that washed away the darkness and dazzled my eyes. There was a thunder crack and a terrible force erupted from my wrist and ankles, throwing a shock wave of raw kinetic energy–a mere shadow of the true forces at work, a by-product–out into the space around me. In that whiteness I caught an image of a shrouded, hunced dark form flung from her feet to impact something solid.”

    Dresden essentially tells her will that said your limbs don’t work because I say that’s how the universe works right now to go fuck itself.

  50. Rookie October 2, 2014 at 11:33 pm -      #50

    Dyrr’s crown:


    The bead of compressed fire should have hit the lich in the face and exploded in a ball of flame sixty paces wide. It should have burned the lich’s face off—but it didn’t.

    Gromph, as he finally gained control of his body and came to rest once again hovering in midair, could see the tiny speck of orange light fly true toward the lich’s face then curve in the air and dive into the garish crown the Agrach Dyrr wizard had the audacity to wear. The bead blazed briefly to life in a splash of orange and yellow luminescence that lit the lichdrow’s face but didn’t come close to burning it off.

    The crown, Gromph thought. I should have remembered.

    The fireball has been absorbed by the crown, Nauzhror hissed into Gromph’s mind.

    Gromph was certain he’d see it again.

    The item will allow him to redirect the fireball at you, Grendan warned.”

    How big is “sixty paces wide”? One meter, two meters?

    Dyrr using sealing:

    “As Dyrr floundered for balance, Gromph took a moment to craft a potent spell defense, a shimmering globe that would completely negate the effects of all but the most powerful of spells. So fortified, he hunted quickly through the various incantations locked in his mind, seeking the most efficacious to employ against the Lord of Agrach Dyrr.

    “Ah,” Dyrr remarked, studying the shimmering sphere. “An excellent defense, young Gromph, but not impervious to one of my skill.”

    The lich muttered a word of awful power and scuttled forward, his skeletal talons outstretched. Seemingly unconcerned by Gromph’s defensive spell the lich plunged his hand through the dancing globe of color and grasped the
    archmage by one arm. Gromph shrieked in dismay as the power of the lich’s spell struck full upon him, blasting his defensive globe to motes of winking light and locking his every muscle into an absolute rigidity.

    “Gromph Baenre, thou art encysted,” Dyrr intoned, his naked teeth gleamed against the great and terrible blackness within his skull.

    The archmage had one long glimpse at the triumphant lich standing over him, then he started to fall. Gromph, unable to move, plummeted straight down through the floor, through the flickering rooms and chambers of Sorcere, through a vast distance into the yawning black rock below the tower, the city, the world. For one terrible instant Gromph felt himself at the bottom of a measureless well, staring up through uncounted miles of darkness at the pinprick figure of his nemesis above. The darkness fell in upon him and smothered him in its embrace.”

  51. Friendlysociopath October 2, 2014 at 11:43 pm -      #51

    “that’s actually fairly causal force firepower for Dresden, and he’s dealt with guys resistant to magic before.”

    Correction, he has dealt with his magics’ version of resistance before. D&D defenses recognize what he did as magic and would block it accordingly. Not sure how elemental compatibility works with that one. D&D has it so if magic makes it, it’s magic.

    “So are these guys as durable as giant 9 foot Demonic Grizzly Bear Bigfoot hybrids?”

    By themselves in natural form? No. With their various spells and defenses? I would imagine so but I don’t have any quotes to back me up. Hopefully somebody with quotes will come through.

    “Showing off kinetic force power with his new staff. And it’s many kinetic storing runes…which store energy whenever the staff moves. And firing it through his shield while keeping it up. So he can play defense and offense at the same time now.”

    D&D Wizards aren’t big on sustained attacks, it’s a spell, effect, spell, effect. The effects might last for a bit but D&D wizards don’t generally stand there throwing an attack for several seconds.
    Their big shields are also pretty much un-destroyable except by dispelling them, Dresden admits enough force would destroy his.
    Also, is he immune to time stops?

    “also it should be noted that during these Skin Games feats with the Fallen Angel gang, Dresden is in a location that has higher gravity than normal so…should be taken into account that those projectiles he launches will be moving far faster and farther without that heavier gravity.”

    Since when does gravity effect how fast something flies forwards? Farther I can see, but what does gravity have to do with speed?

    “Is there gravity spells in team ones universe? Because Dresden is….decent with them.”

    Yes, Reverse Gravity does exactly what is says- it reverses gravity, people that can fly can fly normally

    “Now, not all of the falling rock was molten, some only ‘red-hot’, but even a fraction of that amount of energy is far larger than any magic-user’s spell I’ve heard of in D&D/FR.”

    You haven’t heard of them? Look at any D&D thread around here and you’ll probably find a few if the match progressed far enough.
    Wish literally lets you warp reality.
    There’s a quote up there that says Miracle could be used to wipe out all life on a planet. On one of the Elminster threads it mentioned Elminster created a crater the size of a meadow, by accident.
    The problem is D&D spells are very two dimensional in the game, make the save or suffer the effects- which is all I have to work off of. The books apparently give them in more detail, but I have only 1 Drittz book and it’s in the Time of Troubles (magic stops working) and 1 other book and it’s about Spellfire (Which does mention a stream of fire breaking apart a mountain).

    “Dresden is at least as powerful as Ascher, granted he isn’t currently amped up by a Fallen angel, but again it shows that the spells he deals with are orders of magnitude apart from those that FR wizards do.”

    Not really no. They seem well in line for what FR Wizards deal with. Alas for me having nothing to back up my words. I’ve read that a fireball is capable of blowing up a fair sized ship and that’s a lower tier spell.

    That’s all I’m getting to tonight.

  52. Rookie October 2, 2014 at 11:45 pm -      #52

    @Friendlysociopath

    “Yes, Reverse Gravity does exactly what is says- it reverses gravity, people that can fly can fly normally”

    Gromph manipulated gravity with a spell:

    “Gromph certainly wished that were the case—and maybe by some bizarre twist of fate it was—but Dyrr seemed to have something else in mind. The lich finished casting his spell. The immediate effect was that Gromph’s stomach lifted in his gut. He caught his breath in a hissing gasp and started to fall.

    He couldn’t levitate—Dyrr had dispelled the magic that was keeping him aloft—and Gromph fell toward the rotating pool of daylight beneath him. Knowing Dyrr, it would be a worse fate than simply splattering at the bottom of the Clawrift. It was a fate Gromph would do anything to avoid.

    The archmage extended himself, wiping more stored energy, more access to the Weave from his mind than he normally would have had to, but he needed the spell to take effect faster and couldn’t spare the time for complicated incantations. The effect felt the same as Dyrr’s dispelling of his levitation, but instead of falling down, Gromph drifted to a stop then started falling upward. The source of gravity, with enough magic, could be moved.”

    Once again took over enemy spell and used it against enemy:


    When the meteors entered the area in which Gromph had affected gravity, their courses radically changed. They went everywhere, scattering, dipping, curving, colliding with each other, some even curving back at Dyrr.”

    “By themselves in natural form? No. With their various spells and defenses? I would imagine so but I don’t have any quotes to back me up. Hopefully somebody with quotes will come through.”

    This should help:
    More about Gromph defences:

    “One of the burning projectiles struck Gromph a glancing blow, sending him spinning as he fell. Pain blazed in his side, and without thinking he cast a spell. With only a few words and a quick gesture, Gromph’s skin tightened, stretched—painfully—and took on the gleam, and the hardness, of cold black iron.”

    Daggers:

    “Gromph took advantage of the respite and drew two slim, platinum-bladed throwing daggers from a sheath in his right boot. Even as he drew the knives up along the length of his body, he spoke the words of a spell that would enchant the weapons to a greater keenness. The spell would make them fly truer as well, and farther, and he was sure they would pierce at least some of his target’s magical defenses.
    ///
    That gave Gromph time to finish the spell and throw the daggers. He didn’t bother to aim. He tossed them in Nimor’s general direction and let the spell do the rest. The daggers whirled through the air, their paths twisting around each other in a perfect beeline for the winged assassin.

    With impressive agility, Nimor slipped sideways in the air in an attempt to avoid the daggers, but once set on their course, nothing so simple would deter them. The assassin had to twist in the air again, swatting at the blades with his rapier. The flash of steel—Nimor’s thin blade and both daggers—became a whirling blur around the assassin.”

    Dyrr’s summon:

    “. Lurching out of thin air, a set of insectoid legs slammed down onto the rock floor of the Bazaar—then another set, and another and another and another. The insect’s head was wider than Gromph was tall, maybe even twice as wide. On either side of its grotesque mouth was a curved, jagged-edged pincer. Two bulbous, multifaceted eyes scanned the abandoned expanse of the marketplace as the rest of the huge beast drew itself out of the Weave.

    It was a centipede the size of a whole caravan of pack lizards, and behind it, Dyrr was laughing, and Nimor was flying at Gromph again.”

    Gromph become Ethereal:

    “The archmage could feel the giant insect behind him, looming like a stalactite fortress. Dyrr drew himself up higher in the air and the repulsion pushed Gromph down and away—directly into the centipede’s greedy jaws.

    The right spell came to Gromph’s mind in an instant, and he wasted some extra energy to cast it quickly. The effect was one he’d felt hundreds of times, but he’d always hated it. His body felt as if it were drawing itself thin. He shivered despite himself and had to force himself to keep his eyes open when his vision blurred a little and the world around him became both distorted and somehow brighter, sharper.

    He was surrounded by the inside of the gigantic insect. Muscles and rivers of green semiliquid that served it for blood, the odd line of sheets the thing seemed to be using as lungs, the husks of other too-big insects that it had recently eaten—then another thick layer of armorlike chitin, and he was through it. He had passed through the centipede, his body more a part of the Ethereal than the Prime Material Plane.”

  53. Numinous One October 2, 2014 at 11:54 pm -      #53

    “Dresden essentially tells her will that said your limbs don’t work because I say that’s how the universe works right now to go fuck itself.”

    I should probably read DF, but I can never find the books.
    Anyway, that sounded like soulfire is specifically to combat darkness of that sort, the light banishing the dark. How well do you think it would work against something that doesn’t have light being used as an antithesis?
    He also had time there to form a counter measure, if it’s used for something with a near instant effect I don’t see it working too well.
    It was a good feat nonetheless, but I was thinking of Wish being used more as a BFR, teleport them to the abyss or something nasty. It is a lich using it after all.

    “How big is “sixty paces wide”? One meter, two meters?”

    A pace is generally an average footstep.
    So say half a metre accounting for varying heights, 30m blast.

    How does Gromph escape that? I’m assuming he does anyway, that sealing bit sounds like the spell Imprisonment, Wish and Miracle can’t even counter it.

    EDIT: Rich bastard, throwing around platinum.

  54. Rookie October 3, 2014 at 12:02 am -      #54

    @Numinous One

    “So say half a metre accounting for varying heights, 30m blast.”

    And this was one of his first spells in battle… Damn.

    “I’m assuming he does anyway, that sealing bit sounds like the spell Imprisonment”

    Sealing spell? It happens in book 3 and it took the half of the book 4 and outside help for him to escape.

  55. Commander Cross October 3, 2014 at 1:01 am -      #55

    I’m still trying to recall The Exact LoZ game where Ganondorf has TK aside from Ocarina of Time. :(

    Which with Ocarina of Time is in this scene, at (0:30-2:00) in fact while the following was floating over Lava, that’s the TK Scene from Ocarina of Time:

  56. Warlock Lowk October 3, 2014 at 1:16 am -      #56

    “Anyway, that sounded like soulfire is specifically to combat darkness of that sort, the light banishing the dark.”

    “On top of that, I tapped into the latent energy a particularly meddlesome angel had bestowed upon me whether I wanted it or not—an ancient source of the very energy of Creation itself known as soulfire. Soulfire was never meant for battle—but its presence could infuse my battle spells with significant energy and momentum, making them far more difficult to counter.”
    -Cold Days, Dresden on soulfire
    ===
    “How well do you think it would work against something that doesn’t have light being used as an antithesis?”

    Soul Fire is more about creation. In Dresden’s case it helps him create better ways to destory shit.
    I expected a roar of flame, a flash of white and gold light, the concussion of superheated air suddenly expanding, right in Sharkface’s ugly mug.
    What I got was an arctic-gale howl and a spiraling harpoon of blue-white fire burning hotter than anything this side of a star.
    Sharkface hurled furniture at me, furniture at me, trying to shelter behind it, but the fire I’d just called vaporized the chairs and tables in the instant it touched them. They shattered with enormous, screaming detonations of thunder, and every impact made sounds that by all rights should have belonged to extremely large and poorly handled construction vehicles.”

    -Cold Day

  57. Warlock Lowk October 3, 2014 at 1:25 am -      #57

    “Correction, he has dealt with his magics’ version of resistance before. D&D defenses recognize what he did as magic and would block it accordingly. Not sure how elemental compatibility works with that one. D&D has it so if magic makes it, it’s magic.”

    But the scenario Jake brought up is basically using magic to create something. The something in question is at that point no longer magic, it just ice. Being flung really hard.
    But I think it’s been mentioned before that they have other shields other then just anti-magic stuff right?

  58. Warlock Lowk October 3, 2014 at 1:46 am -      #58

    Dresden can create a circle that can cancel out magic.
    “Stay close!” I shouted. I thrust the end of my staff into the gravel and dragged it through, drawing a line in the dust and stones. I swiftly inscribed a quick, rough circle maybe four feet across around Murphy and me, actually getting between her gun and the grey suits for a second.

    “Dammit, Harry, get down!” she shouted.

    I did so, reaching out to touch the line in the gravel, slamming a quick effort of will into the simple design. Murphy’s gun barked twice. I felt the energy gather in the circle and coalesce in a rush, snapping into place in a sudden and invisible wall.

    The nearest of the grey suits staggered, and then flung itself into a forward dive. Murphy flinched back, and I grabbed her, hard, before she could cross the circle and disrupt it.

    The grey suit slammed into the circle as if striking a solid wall, rebounding from its surface in a flash of blue-white light that described a phantom cylinder in the air. An instant later, more of the grey suits did exactly the same thing, maybe twenty of them, each of them bouncing off the circle’s field.”

    -Turn Coat, Chap 18-19
    If Ganon can put down on an big Wall in a circle to create a circle in the ground, Harry can work of that and make an area devoid of magic. Maybe like a trap or something.

  59. Warlock Lowk October 3, 2014 at 1:49 am -      #59

    Dresden removes spell
    “Susan flung herself onto the ground, rolling, tearing at snakes, flinging them away. I could see flashes of her honey-brown skin and saw the black dress tearing. Droplets of red blood appeared on the floor near her, on her skin, and on the discarded snakes, but they were hanging on. She was tearing herself apart in her panic to remove the snakes.

    I closed my eyes for a second that felt a year long, and gathered together enough will to attempt to disrupt the Denarian’s spell. I formed the counterspell in my head, and hoped to God that I didn’t misjudge how much power I’d need to undo it. Too little and the spell might actually get stronger, like steel forged in a flame. Too much, and the counterspell could unleash the power of both spells in a random, destructive flash of energies. I focused my will on the cloak of serpents over Susan and lashed out at them with my power, letting loose the counterspell with a snarled, “Entropus!”

    The counterspell worked. The serpents writhed and thrashed around for a second, and then imploded, vanishing, leaving behind nothing but a coating of clear, glistening slime in their place.”

    Death Mask, Chap 20
    ===
    @Jake do you remember what book it was where Harry redirected a spell and made that frozen chicken(turkey?) crashing on that Black court vampire.

  60. Friendlysociopath October 3, 2014 at 7:25 am -      #60

    “But the scenario Jake brought up is basically using magic to create something. The something in question is at that point no longer magic, it just ice. Being flung really hard.
    But I think it’s been mentioned before that they have other shields other then just anti-magic stuff right?”

    First part, still magic according to D&D rules. Spell resistance and such would apply.
    Second, yeah, Wizards protect themselves with multiple overlapping shields.

    “Dresden can create a circle that can cancel out magic.”

    Where in that quote is he actually stopping magic? All I see is a protective wall.
    Also, FR Wizards have a number of spells that do the same thing, including one that will destroy magical items in the area it’s used on.

  61. Jake_Uzumaki October 3, 2014 at 7:42 am -      #61

    I should also point out that Mother Winter is a Galaxy Buster. Dresden overpowered the spell and spell resistances of a Galaxy Busting goddess. Galaxy Busting goddess resistance>everyone everyone on team two combined.

    And Dresden Files magic works on if it’s just an element once it’s unleashed it’s not magic it’s just that element. It’s just a hunk of ice by Dresden Files rules.

  62. Jake_Uzumaki October 3, 2014 at 7:50 am -      #62

    Also teleporting him to a different realm wouldn’t work, Dresden can enter the NeverNever and has knowledge of all the Ways, he could easily return to the battlefield.

  63. Friendlysociopath October 3, 2014 at 7:59 am -      #63

    “I should also point out that Mother Winter is a Galaxy Buster. Dresden overpowered the spell and spell resistances of a Galaxy Busting goddess. Galaxy Busting goddess resistance>everyone everyone on team two combined.”

    I suppose I now have to ask for proof of why Mother Winter would be galaxy busting.

    “And Dresden Files magic works on if it’s just an element once it’s unleashed it’s not magic it’s just that element. It’s just a hunk of ice by Dresden Files rules”

    I don’t know how elemental compatibility works for this, I admit my status as noob.

    “Also teleporting him to a different realm wouldn’t work, Dresden can enter the NeverNever and has knowledge of all the Ways, he could easily return to the battlefield.”

    Proof that the Ways are accessible from everywhere?

  64. Friendlysociopath October 3, 2014 at 8:15 am -      #64

    Feats for what FR shields are capable of

    “In answer, the very air seemed to shatter with an ear-splitting shriek. A gigantic ball of flame suddenly towered over the meadow, its heat blistering the watchers’ faces.
    It was like the sun had fallen.
    As mages cried out and shaded their eyes, the fireball rolled away from the awed crowd for a trembling instant, then burst in a blinding white flash, hurling out its mighty energies in a long jet of flame that roared away to the horizon. The earth shook and seemed to leap upward, throwing all but the Old Mage to their
    knees.
    When the shaking had died away, Storm found herself lying beside the horses on the turf. By the time she had struggled to her feet and shook her head clear, the roiling smoke had died away and everyone could see what Elminster’s magic had wrought in the meadow. Or rather, what had been the meadow.
    Where a broad expanse of flame-scorched grass had stretched a moment before, a smoking crater now yawned, large and deep and very impressive.
    “Umm … nice, isn’t it?” Elminster said rather vaguely.
    “I’d forgotten how much fun hurling fire is! How does the spell go again?”
    This time, the Old Mage merely waved a finger.
    His young opponent, clinging to a red metal staff now battered and bent in six places, was just getting to his knees when another ball of flames as big as the first roared over the meadow. That was enough to send him tumbling again, and the young mage soon found himself atop a dazed and rotund Calishite sorcerer. When he could see clearly again, the mage saw a second crater smoking in the distance.

    Another magical shield was used to block Spellfire, which had previously been used to blow up a mountain

    Now true, these are not Gromph’s shields- I was just posting feats for general wizard shields and what they can take.

  65. Jake_Uzumaki October 3, 2014 at 8:15 am -      #65

    Archangels are stated in universe and word of god to casually destroy galaxies in combat. Mother Winter is stated by word of god to be equal in power to Archangels.

    If we really want to get deep into it Gromph and Lichdrow are from outside the universe….making them Outsiders(which are eldritch abominations immune to magic) and Dresden is able to kill Outsiders with magic…the only wizard known to do so because of being born under a certain cosmic alignment making him a Starborn (Eldritch Horrors words). So….very muddlesome. Gets worse with the fact that (and this is somewhat relevant to the next part) Star Wars universe is technically reachable through the NeverNever…according to Word of god…again complicated.

    If we work under the normal merged universe rule the NeverNever should be present as Dresden’s powers include the ability to cross over into it and leave it. The only places Ways have been shown to not be openable are places with special magical security that prevents you from directly entering and exiting through anything but walking there. If Dresden can be teleported to that location clearly it is accessible by means outside of walking.

  66. Rookie October 3, 2014 at 8:46 am -      #66

    Final part of Gromph vs Dyrr battle:

    “The lich ignored the jibe and started casting a spell the same time Gromph did. It was the archmage’s that finished first: another minor divination spent to create a blast of arcane fire. The preternatural flames poured over the lich, who threw his arms over his face to block them but to no avail. Dyrr’s dry flesh crisped and curled, and the lich staggered in pain.

    When the fire burned out, the lich lurched forward, red eyes bulging, his ever-present mask burned away, his face twisted in hatred and agony. Gromph could feel that despite the arcane fire Dyrr had finished his own spell.

    Cold coursed through Gromph’s body, and he shook—and Gromph was getting painfully tired of shaking, shivering, and quivering—but the lich wasn’t through with him yet. He could feel the warmth, the life itself, being drawn from him. He staggered backward, barely managing to stay on his feet.

    “I’ll drain you dry, Gromph,” the lich grumbled, his voice raspy and haggard. “You’ll die with me, with my House, and my cause.”

    The lich began to cast again, and Gromph recognized the peculiar cadence and structure that revealed the incantation as a powerful necromancy. Gromph knew many ways to kill, but he also knew that Dyrr probably knew more.

    The archmage’s hand tightened on his staff, and his arm jerked. A dull pain and a hard pressure settled in his chest, and when he tried to take a breath, no air came to him. His knees finally buckled, and he fell. Gromph forced air into his lungs, but barely a whisper made it in. Dark shadows began to coalesce at the edges of his vision, and his ears went numb with a roaring rush of blood as his body fought in vain to keep his brain alive. The ring was of no help. The lich wasn’t wounding him, he was killing him soul-first.
    Gromph tried to speak, to utter the words of a spell that might save him, but he couldn’t. Dyrr stepped closer, moving to stand over him. Gromph barely managed to turn his head to look up at the gloating lich. The archmage had other means of escape but couldn’t force himself to activate any of them. He could feel Nauzhror and Prath trying to speak into his head, but their words never fully formed. Gromph feared that his body was already dead.

    He tightened his grip on the staff, and his arm jerked again—the staff.

    Gromph forced every ounce of will he had left into pulling his other hand beneath him. He felt his fingers wrap around the staff.

    “Fight it, Gromph,” the lich growled at him. “Suffer before you die.”

    “Arrogant—” Gromph coughed out, surprising himself with his ability to speak, even if it was only that one word.

    “What was that?” the lich asked, taunting him. “The last words of Gromph Baenre?”

    “Not …” the archmage gasped.

    Gromph’s arms tensed, his hands tight around the staff of power—an item so prized hundreds had died just to possess it for a day.

    “… quite,” Gromph finished, and he broke the staff.

    The ancient wood snapped in response less to the force of Gromph’s arms and hands than to his will. The staff broke because Gromph wanted it to break.

    Dyrr had time to take in a breath, Gromph had time to smile, then the world around them both became a raging hell of fire, heat, pain, and death. Gromph couldn’t see the lich blasted to pieces. He was too busy worrying that the same had happened to him. He closed his eyes, but the light still burned them. He felt his flesh peel away in parts, sizzle, and crisp. It was over as fast as it started.

    Gromph Baenre drew in a breath and laughed through waves of burning agony. The ring started to bring him back to life a cell at a time and he lay there, waiting.”

  67. Jehrnkierthe October 3, 2014 at 10:35 am -      #67

    “Proof that the Ways are accessible from everywhere?”
    Every point in the real world is associated with some point in the Nevernever, and vice-versa. The only things that have stopped the opening of a Way between them are the power of beings like Mab and Hades, specifically trying to prevent passage into or out of a place.

    “Where in that quote is he actually stopping magic? All I see is a protective wall.”
    A magic circle in DF completely prevents the passage of magic, magical beings, and magical energy across the line in either direction, and can only be broken by the physical action of a mortal (i.e. scuffing a chalk circle with a foot).

    “First part, still magic according to D&D rules. Spell resistance and such would apply.”
    Maybe it would if it was magically conjured ice, but that’s not what Dresden does. He just chills the water present in the air and turns it to ice, once it’s state has been changed it’s no more magical than the vapor it was before. It would be like using the spell ‘dig’ in D&D, once you’ve cast it, there’s nothing magical about the hole it made.
    Magic in DF tends to only modify and control matter and energy already part of the natural world, not create things solely out of magic.

  68. wingedlion October 3, 2014 at 10:40 am -      #68

    “And Dresden Files magic works on if it’s just an element once it’s unleashed it’s not magic it’s just that element. It’s just a hunk of ice by Dresden Files rules.”

    i believe what freindlysociapath is trying to say is that in dnd, things created by magic are still considered magic, so it still would block it going by that rule.

    “I don’t know how elemental compatibility works for this,”

    DnD magic can interact with DF magic if their compatible enough, but even then they still retain their differences if there are any. i’m pretty sure that’s how it works.

    with that being said….

    “Archangels are stated in universe and word of god to casually destroy galaxies in combat. Mother Winter is stated by word of god to be equal in power to Archangels.”

    … dredsen’s a galaxy-buster now? really?

  69. Jehrnkierthe October 3, 2014 at 10:50 am -      #69

    Dresden’s not creating ice with magic, he’s just turning water vapor into ice. It’s the same thing as if he’d pitched a naturally formed icicle at his opponent with his hand. Imagine you used a fireball to smelt iron for a sword in FR, that sword isn’t inherently magical because of that.

    “dredsen’s a galaxy-buster now? really?”
    Dresden is by no means equal to Mother Winter. He’s stated that if she willed it, he would disintegrate into dust. The contest of wills between them is more of a test than an actual fight, a sort of ‘prove you’re worthy of my help’ (she would have eaten him if he failed). Still, effectively casting Free Will against reality-warping bonds of that level and succeeding is a powerful feat.

  70. wingedlion October 3, 2014 at 11:00 am -      #70

    @jehrnkierthe
    so then she was holding back?
    what about her magic resistance? according to jake dredsen overpowered her spell resistances. wouldn’t he have to overpower that or is there another way he can use to go through it?

  71. Jehrnkierthe October 3, 2014 at 11:13 am -      #71

    She was holding back in her intent, not in her power, if that explanation makes any sense. If she wanted to kill him, or disintegrate him, or conjure steel bars to hold him down, or do pretty much anything to him, she could – however, all she was trying to do to him was bind him with her will. She wasn’t holding back any of her will, though – Dresden was able to break free because mortal Free Will combined with his soulfire was enough to defeat that. He definitely didn’t overpower her spell defenses, she wasn’t using magic against him because she was trying to give him a fair chance to prove himself, not just destroy him.
    It is, however, a useful feat in case Gromph or Dyrr tried to exert some magical control over him, or ‘hold person’ or something similar, since he’s broken such a bond from a much higher-tier source.

  72. Rookie October 3, 2014 at 12:06 pm -      #72

    “I should also point out that Mother Winter is a Galaxy Buster. Dresden overpowered the spell and spell resistances of a Galaxy Busting goddess. Galaxy Busting goddess resistance>everyone everyone on team two combined.”

    If this is true and somebody can post this feat team 2 will win. Not much to do against galaxy buster.

  73. Friendlysociopath October 3, 2014 at 12:14 pm -      #73

    “If this is true and somebody can post this feat team 2 will win. Not much to do against galaxy buster.”

    Dresden is nowhere near a galaxy buster in strength, he’s not even a building buster I don’t think, could be wrong about that but he wouldn’t be much higher than that, certainly not city block buster.

  74. Jehrnkierthe October 3, 2014 at 12:30 pm -      #74

    Dresden is NOT a galaxy-buster. Not even close. Dresden did not overpower Mother Winter, only broke her control over him. He never tried to act offensively against her, nor would he have been able to harm her if he had.

    “Dresden is nowhere near a galaxy buster in strength, he’s not even a building buster I don’t think, could be wrong about that but he wouldn’t be much higher than that, certainly not city block buster.”
    Dresden is somewhere between a building-buster and a city-block-buster without preparation, with preparation he’s somewhat above that.

    In terms of his offensive capabilities here, some of his most effective spells:
    Infriga draws all heat out of the target or target area to freeze them solid; he’s done it to an ogre (which are strongly magic resistant), fae, ghouls, and to an entire room of a store and everything in it. He usually follows with a blast of direct force to shatter the target into pieces.
    lacqueus he’s only used once and I haven’t seen it mentioned in any of his battles on this site, but it conjured a soulfire-enhanced magical cord which wrapped around his target’s neck and strangled them while suspending them in the air. The target, a literal demigod, was unable to break it and only managed to escape by using a magic circle and cutting the spell off from its source (a DF magic circle blocks any magic from going through it, regardless of strength).

    He also can just throw a s***-ton of really hot fire at his opponents and try to either directly overpower their defenses or heat up the air, rock, and everything else around them enough that their defenses are inadequate to prevent them from, for example, sinking into the rock which has melted beneath them or being broiled by superheated air. He’s thrown fire hotter than the surface of the sun before, and created 20-story columns of flame and destroyed entire buildings with blasts of fire.

  75. Warlock Lowk October 3, 2014 at 1:12 pm -      #75

    “Where in that quote is he actually stopping magic? All I see is a protective wall.”

    Found a better example of what happens when magic and mage are inside a circle.
    As it sprang to life at my apprentice’s will, Molly’s circle did the same thing as mine-only this time the grey suits were inside it. As the energy field rose up, it cut off the grey suits from the flow of energy they needed to maintain their solid forms.

    And suddenly the next best thing to forty demonic thugs collapsed into splatters of transparent gook.

    Binder let out a cry as it happened, spinning around desperately, mumbling some kind of incantation under his breath-but he should have saved himself the effort. If he wanted them back, he would have to get out of the isolating field of the enormous circle first, and then he would have to start from scratch.”

    Turn Coat, Chap 19

  76. Warlock Lowk October 3, 2014 at 1:18 pm -      #76

    Anyone recall if Raith magic immunity was up before Maggie’s death curse?
    That could be useful at least for Ganon is Dresden dies first.

  77. Jehrnkierthe October 3, 2014 at 1:34 pm -      #77

    I believe that Maggie’s death curse hit Raith either through his immunity, or avoided it by not being a direct attack on him. It would probably be in Blood Rites if anything is directly stated one way or the other.
    For those who haven’t read it, her death curse made Lord Raith permanently unable to feed (replenish his energy, by draining the life force of humans).
    If Harry does go down and uses his, it would be seriously powerful, Binder at least fears that Harry could level the island they’re on in Turn Coat, which is probably somewhere around one to several miles across.
    It could also possibly do something like remove his opponents’ ability to use magic, death curses are pretty unrestricted in what they can do.

    @Lowk the laser-guided turkey was also in Blood Rites

  78. Commander Cross October 3, 2014 at 1:40 pm -      #78

    While this Smackdown is kind of cool and all, does anyone around here ever heard of Tumblr or Skype by chance?

    Also, We’re a couple of days or so before the birthday of someone in Side B, and today’s the B-day for yet another person born this month.

    ___

    So back to matters at hand, did anyone check out the video I just showed yesterday night while looking for the TK part on Ganondorf’s part?
    Granted like I said before, it was from an Earlier LoZ Game with Ganondorf in it, but the point remains.

    Also, didn’t getting Resurrected in the Twilight Realm affect Ganondorf’s powers for the better, somehow?

  79. Jake_Uzumaki October 3, 2014 at 8:40 pm -      #79

    Considering a Death Curse is powered by all the power of the wizard and everything he can call on….and Dresden can now call on the Winter Mantel to amplify it I’d say it’s probably above island level now..

    Also I never said Dresden was, I was just saying that Dresden actually managed to break her power which Dresden himself described as reality warping, I’d say her powers are far more potent than either of team ones considering she casually knits things that can undo any spell…..I didn’t mean to imply Dresden was anywhere close I was just saying Mother Winter’s power is far from anything to sneeze at. I meant to word it the way Jehrnkierthe did about breaking reality warping bonds, and the mentioning her being Galaxy Busting level was just to point out her abilities are nothing to sneeze at.

  80. OriginalA October 3, 2014 at 9:31 pm -      #80

    “So back to matters at hand, did anyone check out the video I just showed yesterday night while looking for the TK part on Ganondorf’s part?”

    That is a feat for Adult Timeline Ganondorf. TP Ganondorf is from the Child Timeline. I wouldn’t use it.

    “Granted like I said before, it was from an Earlier LoZ Game with Ganondorf in it, but the point remains.”

    Different timeline; different events; different feats as far as I’m concerned.

    “Also, didn’t getting Resurrected in the Twilight Realm affect Ganondorf’s powers for the better, somehow?”

    Better? Not really. Different? Yes. TP Ganondorf has teleportation and body possession. OoT and WW Ganondorf never had either of those. LttP/Oracles/LoZ Ganon had teleportation some of the time. FSA Ganon (a later reincarnation of Ganon in the Child Timeline) also had teleportation.

    TP Ganondorf could also summon barriers of various sizes. Usually any version of Ganon just uses big ass huge barriers to block off the final dungeon area (which TP Ganondorf also did), but TP also used barriers to create small enclosed arenas as well.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeX9jXH-n9Q

    TP Ganondorf has a few small TK feats here. He TK’s Midna across the throne room and summons Zelda’s sword to his hand. Nothing major.

  81. Commander Cross October 4, 2014 at 12:07 am -      #81

    This is odd, I seem to recall more on Adult Timeline!-Ganondorf better than I do his Child Timeline!-self, which is the Timeline version of him in play. :/

    It’s kind of odd, clearly I must be slipping.

    You got anything more on TP Ganondorf I ought to look up?
    If so, cite the scene and I’ll nab Link, okay?

  82. Rookie October 27, 2014 at 5:09 pm -      #82

    So who won here?

  83. Friendlysociopath October 27, 2014 at 5:45 pm -      #83

    I think team D&D was: they have some auto-kill spells, low-grade reality-warping, able to regenerate on a cellular level, and Dyrr can turn into a giant that is almost completely immune to magic. It takes a literal Miracle from Lolth (A God) to take him down, and it doesn’t even kill him.

  84. Rookie November 1, 2014 at 1:35 pm -      #84

    Team 1 for BankGambling Award.

  85. PrimusxPilus December 18, 2014 at 8:45 pm -      #85

    And he had access to Wish

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