Imperial Order Vs Fire Nation

Imperial Order Vs Fire Nation

Suggested by Mason Ward

A war against the Imperial Order (Sword of Truth series) and the Fire Nation (Avatar). This war will take place in an alternate universe where the Old World appears south of the Earth Kingdom territories several months before Sozin’s Comet.

The other territories are fully populated-everyone in the Hundred Years War period is alive and well and will all try to resist the Order.

For the purposes of preventing a total stomp of the Fire Nation, the Firelord’s Oath will serve as the block to Jagang’s Dream-Eater abilities as the D’Haran bond works.

Will advanced magic win this for the Order?
Will the technology of the Fire Nation win out?
How can each side counter each other’s strengths?
Will the other territories help the Fire Nation in a mutual campaign against the Order?

Related Posts:



Read before commenting! We welcome constructive comments and allow any that meet our common sense criteria. This means being respectful and polite to others. It means providing helpful information that contributes to a story or discussion. It means leaving links only that substantially add further to a discussion.

Comments being disrespectful to others or otherwise violating what we believe are common sense standards of discussion can lead to the banhammer getting used. You can read more about our comments policy here.



53 Comments on "Imperial Order Vs Fire Nation"

  1. Mike September 30, 2014 at 7:23 am -      #1

    imperial order at the height of their war with the dharan empire? 12 million strong and still receiving reinforcements on the front line of millions per year. SPOILERS when those that were loyal to the imperial order were banished to another world, half of the world’s population vanished.

    -then add in hundreds of sorceresses and wizards that are already battle hardened with many ways to detect people, kill hundreds-thousands at a time, and defend against medieval, magical, and modern tactics(done magically, like flinging hundreds of pebbles faster than sound, leaving IEDs to come upon and the like).


    I don’t see this going well for the avatar world. the only reason that the “good guys” won in the SoT series was because of a big “I’m a god now” button.

  2. Ragnorke September 30, 2014 at 10:31 am -      #2

    Imperial Order absolutely stomps.

    They have the sisters of the dark, assuming we’re using peak of their power.
    When the sisters were linked together, they claimed to have the power to destroy an army of millions in an instant… The way it was written made it seem like a very viable claim, and not hyperbole.

    Then they also have hundreds of wizards, capable of creating Wizard fire.
    For the record, the Fire Nation CANNOT bend Wizards Fire. They are not elementally compatible whatsoever.
    Wizard fire is liquid fire that can twist and turn however the caster wants it to, and can be as large as the wizard wants it to (sounds NLFish, but you get the point), Zedd made one big enough to single handedly slow down a large marching army i believe.
    And it can melt/burn through just about anything that isn’t magically enchanted (like the SoT)

    And then of course there’s the sheer numbers of the Imperial Order.

    Edit: The sisters of the dark also have subtractive lightning, which is an insta-kill spell that moves faster than regular lightning i think.

  3. Rookie September 30, 2014 at 11:02 am -      #3

    Gonna side with team 2 here. With magic they have really good chances to win.

  4. Ragnorke September 30, 2014 at 11:04 am -      #4

    @Rookie
    “Gonna side with team 2 here. With magic they have really good chances to win.”

    Umm… what?
    What magic does the Fire Nation have that beats the Imperial Order?

  5. Ciridae Hunter September 30, 2014 at 11:18 am -      #5

    I think he means the magic of science.

    The Imperial Order has a major disadvantage in terms of naval efforts since they are not accustomed to fighting giant monsters like those water serpents (can’t remember their names)

    They cannot fly, so the use of armored blimps would be a good advantage since most of their forces consist of hairy musclemen concerned only with looting and raping.

    Any of their fire attacks are useless against the Benders of the FN and even the tanks are fireproof (really only being defeated as a result of Bending that externally rips them apart; see Jong-Jong’s aerial assault on the occupying force of Ba-Sing-Se during the comet)

    Assuming the Fire Nation goes at it slowly, their odds are about even

  6. Ciridae Hunter September 30, 2014 at 11:18 am -      #6

    Unless the Order can get its hands on the Avatar.

  7. Rookie September 30, 2014 at 11:22 am -      #7

    @Ragnorke

    “Umm… what?
    What magic does the Fire Nation have that beats the Imperial Order?”

    Darn it! Team 1, I wanted to say team 1)))
    My mistake.

  8. Ragnorke September 30, 2014 at 11:23 am -      #8

    “They cannot fly, so the use of armored blimps would be a good advantage ”

    They would be brought down by a single spell.

    “Any of their fire attacks are useless against the Benders”

    Wizards fire is magical liquid flames which are not elementally compatible to real fire in any way. No one from team 2 should be able to bend/control it.

    “even the tanks are fireproof ”

    Being fireproof doesn’t defend you from magical flames that burn through ANYTHING that doesn’t have magical resistances.

    “Assuming the Fire Nation goes at it slowly, their odds are about even”

    Aha… How do they plan on dealing with the Sisters of the Dark again?
    Oh right, you completely ignored that bit.

  9. Friendlysociopath September 30, 2014 at 11:24 am -      #9

    Never read the Sword of Truth books- does the Imperial Order include Mord Sith?

  10. Ciridae Hunter September 30, 2014 at 11:24 am -      #10

    More Sith are D’Haran

  11. Rookie September 30, 2014 at 11:27 am -      #11

    @Friendlysociopath

    “does the Imperial Order include Mord Sith?”

    AFAIK no (but I only read till 7 book. Could not read more. Series became terrible)

  12. Ragnorke September 30, 2014 at 11:31 am -      #12

    @Rookie
    “(but I only read till 7 book. Could not read more. Series became terrible)”

    Reading through the pillars of creation was fucking torture.

  13. Ciridae Hunter September 30, 2014 at 11:37 am -      #13

    If I recall, the witch residing in the Midlands (not Shota but the other one-God, what is her name?) states (or thinks it-can’t remember) that shields are not invincible-Richard proved this before she said this when he himself was shot with a crossbow bolt.

    As for the Sisters of the Dark, each one is of lower level save for the core Sisters always serving the Keeper even under Jagang’s power since the core Sisters have stolen more Han from Wizards.

    Zed has killed Sisters of the Dark which should have been impossible since Subtractive Magic is Additive’s kryptonite, so they aren’t as invincible as one might think.

    Air attacks are the only real threat to Fire Benders since lightning can be deflected (not sure how Subtractive stuff would work in Last Airbender canon but I would assume lightning is lightning-or “bolt of power” as SoT canon phrases it and fire-even Wizard’s Fire-is fire, the element that all Fire Benders control.

  14. Ciridae Hunter September 30, 2014 at 11:40 am -      #14

    Ragnorke, Pillars of Creation was reader cruelty

    The problem with SoT is that it went Lucasfilms instead of ending on a stronger note, which goes to show that epics (since the length of the series makes it one) can become monotonous when they try to milk them.

  15. Ragnorke September 30, 2014 at 11:48 am -      #15

    ” that shields are not invincible”

    Who said anything about shields? team 1 doesn’t even need shields to stomp.

    “As for the Sisters of the Dark, each one is of lower level save for the core Sisters”

    When the sisters were all linked together, they specifically said they could blow up Jagangs entire army on a whim (an army of millions)
    The only reason they didn’t was because Jagangs a dream walker and had control over all of them.

    “Zed has killed Sisters of the Dark ”

    Not while they were linked though.

    “so they aren’t as invincible as one might think”

    The fact that it required ZED (the first wizard) to kill one… really says something.

    “Air attacks are the only real threat to Fire Benders”

    Are you really just ignoring the fact that Wizards Fire is NOT elementally compatible to regular fire?
    Team 2 gets raped by it.

    “not sure how Subtractive stuff would work in Last Airbender canon but I would assume lightning is lightning-or “bolt of power”

    It would work the same way it works in the SoT series, it would instantly take the target to the Keeper in the afterlife.

    “even Wizard’s Fire-is fire, the element that all Fire Benders control.”

    Yea, caus normal fire is totally in liquid form and can melt through castles.
    It’s magical, it cannot be bent by Fire Benders.

  16. Ciridae Hunter September 30, 2014 at 12:01 pm -      #16

    Saying that Wizard’s Fire cannot be controlled is like saying Lavabending is impossible since it is molten earth or Metalbending is impossible since it is refined earth

    You forget to mention that only the core Sosters of the Dark actually do this and they get captured so easily as a result of it.

    Also, a lot of good it did them (granted, Jagang is beast)

    On a side note, couldn’t you imagine Jagang’s with a southern accent like a narrator from a Western flick?

    Sisters of the Light were capable of killing SotD just as well once instructed, so they kind of lost their relevance aside from being ritual fodder for creating the Slide and the Blood Beast.

    I wish the series would have ended on a stronger note…*sigh*

  17. Ragnorke September 30, 2014 at 12:23 pm -      #17

    “Saying that Wizard’s Fire cannot be controlled is like saying Lavabending is impossible since it is molten earth or Metalbending is impossible since it is refined earth”

    No, saying Wizards Fire cannot be controlled by Fire Benbders is just like saying Subtractive Lightning cannot be controlled by Lightning Benders.
    It’s made by additive magic, and does not act or even appear the way normal fire does.
    The only two things that make it even remotely compatible to regular fire are that it has the word “fire” in its name, and it uses heat.

    “You forget to mention that only the core Sosters of the Dark actually do this and they get captured so easily as a result of it.”

    They get captured because Jagang can control people with Magic…
    Let me know when team 2 gets someone similar, otherwise they get nuked like no tomorrow.

    “On a side note, couldn’t you imagine Jagang’s with a southern accent like a narrator from a Western flick?”

    Yep.

  18. ptaine September 30, 2014 at 1:07 pm -      #18

    “If I recall, the witch residing in the Midlands (not Shota but the other one-God, what is her name?) states (or thinks it-can’t remember) that shields are not invincible-Richard proved this before she said this when he himself was shot with a crossbow bolt.”
    .
    Just FYI the shield itself wasn’t the problem, Richard was in a battle fighting soldiers with his sword and deflecting arrows with the shields as they came at him which is how the one hit him he only managed to deflect it a little bit. It wasn’t a failure of the shield.
    .
    The other witch you might be thinking of was Six or perhaps you are thinking of Nicci because she said something similarish?
    .
    “Zed has killed Sisters of the Dark which should have been impossible since Subtractive Magic is Additive’s kryptonite, so they aren’t as invincible as one might think.”
    .
    When did Zedd do that? And if he did what was the circumstance?
    .
    As for Wizard’s Fire and Subtractive Lightning:
    .
    “Jennsen followed Emperor Jagang’s gaze, her knife gripped in her fist. It was dark in the hallway, but there was smoky light down at the far end, silhouetting the figure standing in the distance, watching them. He lifted his arms. Between is outstretched hands, fire sprang to life. It wasn’t like real fire, like the fire in a hearth, but somehow not there; real, but at the same time unreal. Jennsen felt as if she were standing in a borderland between to worlds, the world that existed, and the world of the fantastic. Yet, the lethal danger that the wavering flame represented was all too clear. Frozen in dread, squatting down beside Emperor Jagang, Jennsen could only stare as the figure at the end of the hall lifted his hands, lifted the slowly turning ball of blue and yellow flame. Between those steady hands, the rotating flame expanded, to look frighteningly purposeful. Jennsen knew that she was seeing the manifestation of deadly intent. And then he cast that implacable inferno out toward them.
    […]
    The fire grew as it shot toward them, illuminating the walls, ceiling, and debris as it wailed past. The Sister cast out her hands again. The fire struck the woman with a jarring thud, silhouetting her against a flare of intense yellow light so bright that jennsen threw an arm up before her face. In a heartbeat, the flame enveloped the woman, smothering her scream, consuming her in a blinding instant. Blue heat wavered as the fire swirled a moment in midair, then winked out, leaving only a wisp of smoke to hang in the hall, along with the smell of burnt flesh.”
    The Pillars of Creation, Ch 48
    .
    In the next chapter:
    .
    “In the last instant before it was on her, Jennsen knew what she had to do. She threw herself over Emperor Jagang. In that fraction of a second before the fire was upon her, she covered him with her body where he lay at the edge of the floor against the wall, protecting him as she would a child. Even through her tightly closed eyes, she could see the brilliant light. She could hear the terrible wail of the tumbling flames howling around her. But Jennsen felt nothing”
    .
    Jennsen is someone who cannot be affected by the magical effects of anything cast at her. She can be affected indirectly by non-magical things, like an actual fire created by magic. Since it behaves differently than normal fire, is explicitly stated as being different than normal fire, and doesn’t affect someone who is immune to magic there isn’t any reason to believe that Fire Benders could affect Wizard’s Fire in any manner using their abilities.
    .
    “Liliana swept a hand out. Twisting, snaking lightning came from her hand, but it was not like any lightning he had ever seen before. It was black lightning. Instead of a bolt of light and heat, it was an undulating void, as dark as the night stone, as dark as the boxes of Orden, as dark as eternal death. The dim, moonlit scene seemed a sunny day in comparison. Richard knew: he was seeing Subtractive Magic. Liliana swept the black lightning across the rock beneath his feet. It effortlessly sliced a smooth-edged void through the rock. The remaining part he stood atop collapsed onto the half below. Trees behind for a good distance, severed in the same way, by the same black bolt, crashed to the ground in a roar of noise.” Stone of Tears, Ch 65
    .
    It’s never really been shown at what speed the lightning actually moves at, but either way I would be rather surprised if the fire nation actually has a counter for this.

  19. Ciridae Hunter September 30, 2014 at 1:08 pm -      #19

    Wizard’s Fire was always described in a way that says it’s different but not so much that intone classified as fire (using “unlike normal fire” instead of “it isn’t fire”, denoting more similarities than that.

    Wizard’s Fire draws upon heat, so a Fire Bender could use their Bending to drain the heat and make it puff out (Roku and Sozin could do this)

    I agree more with the Lightning since I was never sure about it to begin with.

    By the by, how would you have ended the series, Ragnorke?

  20. Ragnorke September 30, 2014 at 3:20 pm -      #20

    “Wizard’s Fire draws upon heat, so a Fire Bender could use their Bending to drain the heat and make it puff out”

    This is a good point… However i see two issues with it:
    1. What’s the hottest thing Roku & Sozin have drained?
    2. More wizard fire can be created, as it can be made in endless streams. It doesn’t require a “source”.

    “By the by, how would you have ended the series, Ragnorke?”

    There’s another book called the Oath Machine i think, which i have not yet read. It apparently has a new antagonist and all, so the series aren’t quite over.

  21. Ciridae Hunter September 30, 2014 at 3:48 pm -      #21

    Sozin and Roku cooled molten magma and stopped two volcanos.

    Sure, Wizard’s Fire can be made into a stream, but then the caster is vulnerable while they play tug-of-war with Fire Benders

    Still, unless the lightning could be redirected FN will have a tough time even with the technology.

    Oh, forgot to mention blasting jelly, the catapults on their vastly superior ships, and the torpedoes of the war blimps.

    Explosives even things quite a bit considering the ratio of magic users in the Order versus brawny musclemen-perhaps a few hundred to a couple thousand Sisters/other magic-users versus millions of rabble; Fire Bender/normal person ratio is about 1/2 give or take.

  22. Ragnorke September 30, 2014 at 3:56 pm -      #22

    “Sozin and Roku cooled molten magma and stopped two volcanos.”

    I honestly don’t think magma compares to Wizards Fire. But i suppose that’s something i would need to prove.

  23. Mike September 30, 2014 at 4:23 pm -      #23

    “Sure, Wizard’s Fire can be made into a stream, but then the caster is vulnerable while they play tug-of-war with Fire Benders”
    -SoT magic users play with all elements of reality, in fact what they do is learn how to use their essence to control/manipulate reality. if you want to have a tug of war with someone who can also control and cast multiple spells and things around you at the same time you aren’t going to have a good time.


    “Oh, forgot to mention blasting jelly, the catapults on their vastly superior ships, and the torpedoes of the war blimps.”
    -protecting against exposive forces was an every day thing for SoT magic users in war. and they were so proficient at it that each side had to constanty change tactics/abilities/attacks/defenses due to being able to counter each other so quickly.


    “I honestly don’t think magma compares to Wizards Fire. But i suppose that’s something i would need to prove.”
    -instantly disintigrate people, able to be made large enough in the middle of battle to kill a thousand in one “splash” when it hits ground, one blast melts entire castle walls and doors. also might be important to mention that not only are they moved directly by the casters will, but as Zedd showed in Debt of Bones, can also be cast as a “guided missile” of sorts about a thousand miles away as a “fire and forget” attack specifically aimed at one person(and directly hit).

  24. Ciridae Hunter September 30, 2014 at 5:19 pm -      #24

    Actually, the countering of magic was magic in general-not explosives such as blasting jelly and torpedoes; the Gar was made to counter Mriswith, the D’Haran Bond was made to counter Dream Eaters, shielded Wizard’s Fire was made to counter magic shields, battle horns were made to counter conjured Shadow People and so on.

    If explosive magic was so easy to counter, then the music box wouldn’t have wiped out a million soldiers in one go and Zedd wouldn’t have been able to go bar-brawl with Wizard’s Fire during his time fighting with the D’Haran forces against the Order.

    It isn’t magic, so it is in essence like the glass dust that the free Sisters of the Light made; like that battle, the jelly and the bombs would be unexpected but they won’t be so easily countered.

    Not to bring this up as well, but the Fire Nation can just sit behind their navy until the Comet arrives and boosts their power, then Wizard’s Fire will be as hot as piss on the side of a volcano in comparison to amped Bending.

    Jagang’s strength in this fight is also his greatest weakness since he would have to try bypassing the navy in a short amount of time; even with Sisters of the Dark, wooden boats and ships are still useless against steel ships that could simply crash into the smaller wooden vessels for giggles.

    Magic isn’t everything; Jagang’s himself was never too reliant upon magic, relying more on millions of wannabe Major Armstrongs and his own strategies and his legendary patience, using magic more when Richard became more of a hassle.

  25. Ragnorke September 30, 2014 at 5:55 pm -      #25

    “If explosive magic was so easy to counter, then the music box wouldn’t have wiped out a million soldiers in one go”

    The thing is, we don’t know the details of the magic behind that.
    It could have worked by splitting atoms, or instant death for all we know.
    No proof of it being ONLY explosive in nature.

    “Zedd wouldn’t have been able to go bar-brawl with Wizard’s Fire during his time fighting with the D’Haran forces against the Order.”

    Again, you’re talking about the First Wizard here. No ordinary case.

    “then Wizard’s Fire will be as hot as piss on the side of a volcano in comparison to amped Bending.”

    Not really.
    Wizards Fire would still be > the fire.
    Feel free to provide any spectacular feats though.

    ” even with Sisters of the Dark, wooden boats and ships are still useless against steel ships that could simply crash into the smaller wooden vessels for giggles.”

    Except for the fact that… you know… the Sisters of the Dark can destroy millions of people over the area of entire kilometers… on a whim.

    “Magic isn’t everything; Jagang’s himself was never too reliant upon magic”

    99% of what Jagang accomplished was through his Dream Walkers magic, so don’t kid yourself.

  26. Ciridae Hunter September 30, 2014 at 7:49 pm -      #26

    I think the “strength of a thousand suns” is feat enough for a Comet win.

    Like I said, only all of the core Sisters of the Dark with all of their power combined could do this and there was never any proof that they could unleash it at all-they simply felt each other through the link and never actually used any of that legendary power; on that note, who’s to say that the power wouldn’t wipe them out in the process even if they could use it?

    We don’t know if only Zedd was bar-brawling with magic since it was his PoV and he was more preoccupied killing thousands of people and not dying to pay attention to his allies’ efforts so it cannot be assumed that only he could do so.

    The link between Nicci, Ulicia, et cetera and the ability to unleash all of that power at once is never actually shown to be possible-just because they arrogantly believe themselves to be better or right doesn’t make it real; in this case, magic is science and science requires a small thing called proof-proof that is never shown at all throughout the (12 book..?) series. I can say “by linking the minds of six poodles they gain each other’s senses and now know the meaning of life” but unless a poodle comes up to you and says the meaning of life while smelling the Hulk fart ten galaxies away then it itakes nothing but empty boasting and inaccurate hypothesizing.

    Do you think Japan could have made an anime series better than the live-action show in the US? I do.

  27. Ragnorke September 30, 2014 at 7:53 pm -      #27

    “I think the “strength of a thousand suns” is feat enough for a Comet win.”

    That is complete and utter hyperbole.
    Infact, that is one of the biggest examples of hyperbole in ALL fiction.

  28. Nobunaga Jin September 30, 2014 at 9:50 pm -      #28

    I wonder if tacticians would be able figure out anything about the people they’re warring with.

  29. Mike October 1, 2014 at 6:12 am -      #29

    “Actually, the countering of magic was magic in general-not explosives such as blasting jelly and torpedoes”
    -they literally use air shields to block physical objects you know, shields much stronger than steel.


    ” the Gar was made to counter Mriswith, the D’Haran Bond was made to counter Dream Eaters, shielded Wizard’s Fire was made to counter magic shields, battle horns were made to counter conjured Shadow People and so on.”
    -yes, magic was used to counter magic, but it does not negate that the physical properties of that magic are what was trying to be avoided. since this is against mainly the fire nation, i’ll give you this quote…..


    “”Do you know,” he said, frowning in thought as if distracted by something as he looking up at the ceiling of the tent, “that I once saw a wizard lay down a simply prodigious font of flame before a line of charging cavalry?”
    “Well, there you go,” Verna said. “You know its value, then. You’ve seen it in action.”
    “Yes . . .” Zedd drawled. “Problem was, the enemy had been prepared for such a simpleminded trick.”
    “Simpleminded!” Verna shot to her feet. “I don’t see how you could possibly consider-”
    “The enemy had conjured curved shields just for such an eventuality.”
    “Curved shields?” Warren swiped back a curly lock of his blond hair. “I’ve never heard of such a thing. What are curved-‘
    “The wizard who laid down the fire had been expecting shields, of course, and so he made his fire resistant to such an expected defense. These shields, though, weren’t conjured to stop the fire”-Zedd’s gaze. shifted from Warren’s wide eyes to Verna’s scowl-“but to roll it.”…..(a nonsense sentence i took out about albino mosquitos-Mike)..
    ………”Roll the fire?” Warren asked as he leaned forward.
    “Yes,” Zedd said. “Roll the fire before the cavalry charge-so that instead of a simple cavalry assault, the defenders now had deadly fire rolling back at them.”
    “Dear Creator . . .” Warren whispered. “That’s ingenious-but surely the shield would extinguish the fire.”
    Zedd twirled his fork as he spoke, as if to demonstrate the shield rolling the flames. “Conjured by their own wizard for the expected defense, the fire had been hardened against shields, so instead of fizzling, it stayed viable. That, of course, enabled the curved shield to roll the fire back without it extinguishing. And, of course, being hardened to shields, the wizard’s own quickly thrown up defensive shields couldn’t stop his own fire’s return.”
    “But he could just cut it oft!” Warren was becoming panicked, as if seeing his own wizard’s fire coming back at him. “The wizard who created it could call it and cut it off.”
    “Could he?” Zedd smiled. “He thought so, too, but he hadn’t been prepared for the peculiar nature of the enemy’s shield. Don’t you see? It not only rolled the fire back, but in so doing rolled around the fire as it went, protecting it from any alteration by magic.”
    “Of course . . .” Warren whispered to himself.
    “The shield was also sprinkled with a provenance-seeking spell, so it rolled the fire back toward the wizard who conjured it. He died by his own fire-after it had seared through hundreds of his own men on its way to him.”
    Silence settled into the tent. Even the general, still holding out the albino mosquito, sat transfixed.
    “You see,” Zedd finally went on, tossing his fork down onto his plate, “using the gift in war is not simply an act of exercising your power, but an act of using your wits.” -Faith of the Fallen Ch.15


    “If explosive magic was so easy to counter, then the music box wouldn’t have wiped out a million soldiers in one go”
    -that was a form of magic called “constructive magic”; a box that was imbued with a powerful light spell by ancient wizards 3000 years ago. they couldn’t detect it being there and had no reasons to put up shields in the middle of their main camp to block what amounted to about the Hiroshima bomb.


    “and Zedd wouldn’t have been able to go bar-brawl with Wizard’s Fire during his time fighting with the D’Haran forces against the Order.”
    -it was not by choice, and many of the blasts of fire were blocked. Zedd and Warren were trying to give their army time to get out of there while also creating as much of a distraction as possible so Kahlan and…..someone else i can’t remember could ride out in front of the opposing army letting loose their magically powdered glass into the air.

    “It would be Kahlan who had lost the war for them, this very night, if they didn’t get their army back across that pass to safety.
    “I’m doing this myself,” she repeated. “That’s the way it’s going to be. Standing here arguing about it can only cost us our chance. Now, I need a diversion, and I need one quickly.”
    Zedd let out an angry breath. The fire was back in his eyes. He flicked out his hand, pointing. “Warren is back there waiting for me.
    The two of us will move to separate locations and give you your diversion.”
    “What will you do?”
    At last, Zedd surrendered to a grim, cunning grin. “Nothing fancy, this time. No clever devious tricks, like they no doubt expect. This time, we’ll give them a good old-fashioned firefight.”
    Kahlan gave a sharp tug to the strap at her ribs holding her leather armor on her shoulders, chest, and back, cinching it down tight. She nodded once to seal the pact.
    “Wizard’s fire it is, then.” – Faith of the Fallen Ch.38


    “Not to bring this up as well, but the Fire Nation can just sit behind their navy until the Comet arrives and boosts their power, then Wizard’s Fire will be as hot as piss on the side of a volcano in comparison to amped Bending.”
    -i’d need to see something of how or why it is this way and calculations to how hot their fire gets. not that heat would be a problem in and of itself. to compete with wizard’s fire though, it would have to completely disintegrate a 9 foot tall gargoyle like monster in a heartbeat from a small blast.


    “Jagang’s strength in this fight is also his greatest weakness since he would have to try bypassing the navy in a short amount of time; even with Sisters of the Dark, wooden boats and ships are still useless against steel ships that could simply crash into the smaller wooden vessels for giggles.”
    -why would any ship be able to get close to another when wot magic users casually fling out razor sharp lines of air across the battle field that cut through hundreds of fully armored soldiers? much less any of the other numerous things magic can do to objects able to be seen and sensed from many miles away.


    “Magic isn’t everything; Jagang’s himself was never too reliant upon magic, relying more on millions of wannabe Major Armstrongs and his own strategies and his legendary patience, using magic more when Richard became more of a hassle.”
    -?….he used magic all the time. he just thought it was a perversion upon the world of man and was going to destroy all of it once he’d taken over the world.


    “We don’t know if only Zedd was bar-brawling with magic since it was his PoV and he was more preoccupied killing thousands of people and not dying to pay attention to his allies’ efforts so it cannot be assumed that only he could do so.”
    -i’m sorry to say but obviously you have no idea what you are talking about. at no point was the battle in his pov, and directly opposite of what you just said, all of his effort was to pay attention to his allies as he and warren speficically countered some enemy fire that was going toward kahlan and even shot a few wizard’s fire blasts at the enemy in front of her when she was blocked off. if you haven’t read the books, don’t assume, ask and i’ll quote them.


    “The link between Nicci, Ulicia, et cetera and the ability to unleash all of that power at once is never actually shown to be possible-just because they arrogantly believe themselves to be better or right doesn’t make it real; in this case, magic is science and science requires a small thing called proof-proof that is never shown at all throughout the (12 book..?) series. I can say “by linking the minds of six poodles they gain each other’s senses and now know the meaning of life” but unless a poodle comes up to you and says the meaning of life while smelling the Hulk fart ten galaxies away then it itakes nothing but empty boasting and inaccurate hypothesizing.”
    -taking the words of experts on subjects on what they can do to be truthful is exactly how we get most of the feats we use here on BankGambling. you might as well say that every spell said to be able to be done in the harry potter series by a professor in a classroom that was not directly shown afterwards is not a feat capable by harry potter wizards then. and the sisters of the dark have been practicing magic in a magic teaching school as teachers for hundreds of years(individually, not just as a group). by the way, here’s the sisters of the dark quote.

    “She had never suspected such awesome power could be gathered. Short of the Creator or the Keeper, there was no power on the face of the earth that could approach what they now controlled.
    Ulicia was the link’s dominant node, and the one who would command and direct the force. It was all she could do to contain the inner blaze of Han. Wherever her gaze settled, it howled to be released. Soon enough, it would be.
    Linked as they were, the female and male Han, the Additive and Subtractive Magic, they had enough destructive force to make wizard’s fire seem a candle by comparison. With a mere thought, she could level the hill atop which sat the fortress. With a mere thought, she could instantly level everything in the range of her sight, and possibly beyond.
    If she could be sure Jagang was in the fortress, she would have already unleashed the cataclysmic fury, but if he wasn’t, and they failed to find and kill him before they fell asleep again, then he would have them. First they must face him, to be sure he was there, and then she would release such power as had never been seen in this world, and turn Jagang to dust before he could blink.”

  30. Mike October 1, 2014 at 6:28 am -      #30

    “why would any ship be able to get close to another when wot magic users”
    -lol, i mean sot magic users

  31. Ragnorke October 1, 2014 at 10:51 am -      #31

    The Sisters of the Dark claim was made by the narrator (source of omnipotence)… Not by the Sisters themselves.
    Therefore it is taken as fact, and honestly cannot be argued with.

  32. Ciridae Hunter October 1, 2014 at 11:15 am -      #32

    The witch known as Six was quoted saying (or thinking-it’s been years since I read the books) that their shields aren’t perfect; a torpedo delivers three kinds of attack: first, the scrapnel from the missile itself which is highly unpredictable and acts like a grenade where a single tiny piece of metal could kill some unlucky person well past its lethal range. Second, the heat from the explosion itself which, though quickly (compared to Wizard’s Fire) dissipated, can be several thousand degrees. Thirdly, the shockwave from the explosion that has been proven to be able to kill on its own. This is three types of attacks that are from different spectrums of physical attacks, so I doubt any but the core Sisters of the Dark would be able to defend against a single torpedo-let alone a carpet-bombing line that would also be behind them and to the side of them.

    A Spartan’s shield is thick, but an arrow to the back of the head will still kill them no matter how strong the shield is.

    Assuming that the Order even knew what torpedoes and blasting jelly were, the average Sister of the Dark was nothing more than ritual fodder to Jagang-he could care less if they were all wiped out and they most likely would be since all they would know is that they need to be out of its flight path so they wouldn’t be hit by the physical torpedo-as Zedd himself proved with the music box and the Ghost Riders (which are awesome) surprise goes a long way.

    Also, keep in mind that this is several months before the Comet arrives, so the war blimps weren’t even unveiled which makes Jagang even knowing about them impossible-the torpedoes were only ever exclusive to the blimps, so knowing about the torpedoes would be very difficult.

    “Strength of a thousand Suns” is repeatedly quoted for amped Fire Benders, and during the Comet Ozai and about a dozen others were able to blanket miles of land in fire, so…goodbye Order.

    True, the music box was light magic (I had forgotten-thanks) and it was like a curiosity land mine, but even surprised Sisters can raise those shields everyone seems keen on hiding behind, so it could have very well been possible (at least for the Subtractive magic-users) to block it.

    The link between Ulicia and the core Sisters of the Dark was established, but without an actual display all that is established is that she felt the magic and nothing more; I can feel someone watching me, but unless I have proof then all I am doing is being delusional. Feeling magic is different then being able to use it, so unless there is a quote with them wiping out an Order-sized army or turning a mountain to dust then there is no proof that supports Ulicia actually being able to use the magic she felt.

  33. Nobunaga Jin October 1, 2014 at 11:27 am -      #33

    So…is either side even going to attempt making plans in this war? Or are both sides just going to attack each other until one side falls?

  34. Ragnorke October 1, 2014 at 11:40 am -      #34

    ““Strength of a thousand Suns” is repeatedly quoted for amped Fire Benders, and during the Comet Ozai and about a dozen others were able to blanket miles of land in fire, so…goodbye Order.”

    Strength of a thousand suns is bullshit hyperbole, stop using it as a feat.
    Blanket miles of land in fire.. wow… so scary… against Wizards that can NORMALLY do stuff like that anyways.

    “The link between Ulicia and the core Sisters of the Dark was established, but without an actual display all that is established is that she felt the magic and nothing more; I can feel someone watching me, but unless I have proof then all I am doing is being delusional”

    It was claimed by an OMNIPOTENT source.
    If an omnipotent god says someone is watching you, then someone IS watching you. No ifs or buts.

    “so unless there is a quote with them wiping out an Order-sized army or turning a mountain to dust then there is no proof that supports Ulicia actually being able to use the magic she felt.”

    What the fuck do you mean there isn’t proof? Did you even read the quote?

    An omnipotent source says WORD TO WORD that she can now control it: “there was no power on the face of the earth that could approach what they now controlled.”

    An omnipotent source narrator says WORD TO WORD that she commands the power: “Ulicia was the link’s dominant node, and the one who would command and direct the force”

    An omnipotent source narrator says WORD TO WORD that she could level the army with a mere THOUGHT: “they had enough destructive force to make wizard’s fire seem a candle by comparison. With a mere thought, she could level the hill atop which sat the fortress. With a mere thought, she could instantly level everything in the range of her sight, and possibly beyond.”

    The word of the Author >>>>>>>> Your opinion.
    So let it go. You were wrong.

  35. Ciridae Hunter October 1, 2014 at 11:45 am -      #35

    @Ragnorke
    The Sisters of the Dark claim was made by the narrator (source of omnipotence)… Not by the Sisters themselves.
    Therefore it is taken as fact, and honestly cannot be argued with.

    WHAT the hell is this!?

    The Keeper’s “omnipotence” didn’t help worth a damn and the Creator was never around (he helps those hat help themselves) and prophecy isn’t perfectly set in stone, so how can this not be argued with?

    Also-what story are you reading because in SoT there was never any Sam Elliott saying “Well, them Rahl boys had quite a problem on their hands” or Morgan Freeman saying “In the Beginning, there was Me”-the story was told through PoV perspective and unless that character is a knowledge god then their word is never absolute.

    All we know about the link is that it allowed Ulicia and her band of merry murderers to feel each other’s magic and pain-and even the link never kills them when one of them dies or actually proves that the power could be unleashed at all; you could have someone watching you but unless you can provide proof then all you are doing is entertaining is through smoke and mirrors and paranoia.

    The link-even of it could work as Ulicia intended-would in all likelihood kill them as well due to a sudden overuse of magical energy; controlling power like that would result in a backlash that would let them meet the Keeper in person rather than in their dreams.

  36. Ciridae Hunter October 1, 2014 at 11:49 am -      #36

    That was said through HER view-not Goodkind’s-she only had her theories and never-EVER-used any of that “awesome power” to end anything; I can be linked to the earth like everyone on the Last Airbender, but that doesn’t mean that I am a God because of it.

  37. Ciridae Hunter October 1, 2014 at 11:57 am -      #37

    By the way, this will be my last post for a while-vacation is better without people calling. Have fun!

    Oh, Ragnorke, it was the Oath Machine you were talking about-heard it got bad reviews-anyway, goodbye!

  38. Ragnorke October 1, 2014 at 12:27 pm -      #38

    “The Keeper’s “omnipotence” didn’t help worth a damn and the Creator was never around (he helps those hat help themselves) and prophecy isn’t perfectly set in stone,”

    Because it was said from an omnipotent Narrators perspective, it is taken as unarguable 100% fact.
    I suggest you read up on the word “Narrator”

    “-the story was told through PoV perspective and unless that character is a knowledge god then their word is never absolute.”

    What? Are you kidding me?
    It was NOT PoV. At all. Ever. The story has a narrator.

    “That was said through HER view-not Goodkind’s”

    I’m beggining to suspect 1 of 2 things now:
    1. You haven’t read the books. Otherwise you would know the books are written from an omnipotent narrators perspective.
    2. You don’t understand the difference between PoV & a narrator.
    Either way, the issue is your lack of knowledge, not the lack of feats.

    The AUTHOR said, from his omnipotent narrator, which is NOT from a PoV perspective of any one character:
    “they had enough destructive force to make wizard’s fire seem a candle by comparison. With a mere thought, she could level the hill atop which sat the fortress. With a mere thought, she could instantly level everything in the range of her sight, and possibly beyond”

    So wtf are you arguing about?

    “By the way, this will be my last post for a while-vacation”

    Have a good one ^^

  39. Ciridae Hunter October 1, 2014 at 12:45 pm -      #39

    Narrator:
    a person who narrates something, especially a character who recounts the events of a novel or narrative poem.
    synonyms: storyteller, teller of tales, relater, chronicler, raconteur, anecdotalist
    “the narrator of “The Arabian Nights””

    Narrate:
    give a spoken or written account of.
    “the voyages, festivities, and intrigues are narrated with unflagging gusto”
    synonyms: tell, relate, recount, describe, chronicle, give a report of, report; voice-over
    “the story is narrated by an English butler”

    Point of View:
    (in fictional writing) the narrator’s position in relation to the story being told.
    “this story is told from a child’s point of view”

    Huh. In these definitions, it says nothing about anything being absolutely true; like I said before, Ulicia can feel the magic, she feels like she can use it to wipe out the world, but if it was that easy why did the Keeper not use this to wipe out his opposition and then use the Boxes to destroy the world? The only omnipotent (cough cough) being-whose sole mission in his eternal life is to bring death, by the way-who would do anything to get to the world to see his dream realized and he doesn’t use a trump card like that? Do you want to know why? Because he already knew that it was impossible to do so.

    Plane is delayed and some kid is crying-goodness, this vacation feels like the one that will kill me.

  40. Ragnorke October 1, 2014 at 12:52 pm -      #40

    Omniscient:
    knowing everything

    Third Person Narrator:
    In third person omniscient, the narrator knows all the thoughts and feelings of all the characters in the story.

    The Sword of Truth books ARE written from a Third Person Omniscient Narrator.
    And not from the Point of View of a character.
    How can you deny that?

    For the last time, here’s a direct quote:
    “they had enough destructive force to make wizard’s fire seem a candle by comparison. With a mere thought, she could level the hill atop which sat the fortress. With a mere thought, she could instantly level everything in the range of her sight, and possibly beyond”

    It is NOT being said from the perspective of any of the Sisters, it is being said from the perspective of a THIRD PERSON NARRATOR.
    Also known as an OMNISCIENT NARRATOR.

    The narrator knows the exact feelings of the characters, without BEING the characters.
    That is EXACTLY what an omniscient third person narrator is.
    And we ALWAYS take such a narrators word as undisputed fact, unless it is CLEARLY implied to be hyperbole (which it is not in this case)

  41. ptaine October 1, 2014 at 1:22 pm -      #41

    “Wizard’s Fire was always described in a way that says it’s different but not so much that intone classified as fire (using “unlike normal fire” instead of “it isn’t fire”, denoting more similarities than that.”
    .
    Indeed there are many similarities. It wouldn’t be called “fire” or have many descriptive phrases in common. The differences though are kind of important. Have benders interacted with a magical fire that is similar to Wizard’s Fire? We know they can interact with normal fire so that isn’t an issue, it’s the differences that are.
    .
    “Wizard’s Fire draws upon heat, so a Fire Bender could use their Bending to drain the heat and make it puff out (Roku and Sozin could do this)”
    .
    Perhaps, but the heat of magma is considerably less than Wizard’s Fire that can instantly vaporize a person.
    .
    “The witch known as Six was quoted saying (or thinking-it’s been years since I read the books) that their shields aren’t perfect”
    .
    I don’t remember her saying this (not that you are necessarily wrong), so if you could find the actual quote then that would be much better than relying on your memory. Also, if she did say so, why would you take her word for it here if you aren’t going to take Ulicia’s word for the Sisters? That’s a little bit hypocritical there if you ask me.
    .
    “Oh, Ragnorke, it was the Oath Machine you were talking about-heard it got bad reviews-anyway, goodbye!”
    .
    It was called the Omen Machine. There is also The Third Kingdom and the newest book Severed Souls just came out in August. I haven’t read Severed Souls, but I wasn’t really impressed with the other two and I’ve heard its much the same anyway, so I haven’t been in a real hurry to read it anyway.
    .
    I’m also not really sure whatever happened to Goodkind’s deal with The Law of Nines and all that. I figure it didn’t do as well as expected so he ended up with the other deal from Tor instead, but supposedly there are 2 other books he wrote or will write or something as well.
    .
    Either way I actually enjoyed the Chainfire Trilogy and thought it was a good ending to the SoT series, but to each there own.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    As for Goodkind’s writing style, it isn’t Third-Person Omniscient (read something like Dune for an example of that). It’s Third-Person limited which is essentially First-Person with Third-Person pronouns. What that means is when we read the story we stay with one person’s point of view throughout the entirety of a scene and we get there thoughts, feelings and so on. Which means that Goodkind isn’t narrating as such and giving us infallible information, but he is giving us what the person is actually thinking which can be wrong. That being said Goodkind doesn’t generally do that since he tends to give us reliable information that way, even though I can think of a few examples where the characters information is unreliable.
    .
    But, regardless we know of several other examples where Ulicia’s claim isn’t that far-fetched. We know what one Sister of the Dark can do. We also know what several other characters can do single-handedly on a comparable scale, so it isn’t like Ulicia’s claim where she is linked with several other people who have their normal Sorceress Additive Magic, mixed with Subtractive Magic from the Keeper, and Han stolen from wizards (meaning they are more powerful than usual), is that ridiculous that we can simply disregard it out of hand. If it was something like she had the power to destroy the universe and never used it while there never being any comparable feats other than what we have then the argument makes more sense.

  42. LadyRamkin October 1, 2014 at 2:46 pm -      #42

    Fire Nation has tanks. tanks are cool. Imperial order has rapists. rapists are not cool. Fire nation is much cooler than imperial order. Too cool to fire bend, thus they lose their main method of attack, NOOOOOOOOOOO!

  43. Nobunaga Jin October 1, 2014 at 2:50 pm -      #43

    “Perhaps, but the heat of magma is considerably less than Wizard’s Fire that can instantly vaporize a person.”

    I would assume that multiple skilled Firebenders could work together to redirect the heat of the fire, but what exactly are the mystical properties of Wizard’s fire?

    Also, I’d like to know if spells from Sword of Truth Wizards could be cast quickly and/or consecutively and still work efficiently.

  44. Ragnorke October 1, 2014 at 3:05 pm -      #44

    @Nobunaga Jin
    “I would assume that multiple skilled Firebenders could work together to redirect the heat of the fire”

    Only if they have shown to do so on magically enchanted fire before.

    ” but what exactly are the mystical properties of Wizard’s fire?”

    1. It’s liquid fire that can be twisted, turned, reshaped, and redirected however the wizard pleases. In fact it can even move on ITS OWN, as a homing missile.
    2. A single drop of it can completely melt a man if the wizard wants it to.
    3. It can be as wide or large as the Wizard desires (although there’s obviously limits), Zed was able to make one big enough to slow down an army of hundreds of thousands, if not millions.
    4. Due to its magical nature, it can melt through anything that isn’t magically enchanted to resist it. It isn’t normal fire whatsoever, you NEED magic to shield yourself against it.

    “Also, I’d like to know if spells from Sword of Truth Wizards could be cast quickly and/or consecutively and still work efficiently”

    Yep. The more experienced ones specially, can consecutively cast lightning fast spells.

    Honestly the Sisters of the Dark just roflstomp here, they’re capable of destroying an army of millions, and destroying mountains spread “as far as the eyes can see”, with a “mere thought”

  45. Nobunaga Jin October 1, 2014 at 3:18 pm -      #45

    Oh, that helps clear things up, but what about tactics? It is a war after all, so both armies should come up with plans and schemes to handle one another.

  46. Ragnorke October 1, 2014 at 3:23 pm -      #46

    “but what about tactics? It is a war after all, so both armies should come up with plans and schemes to handle one another.”

    The emperor Jagang is one of the most patient & strategic people in the SoT universe.
    I honestly doubt anyone in the Avatar series has tactical war knowledge that can compare to even a fraction of what Jagang knows.
    Furthermore, he’s a Dream Walker. Meaning he can enter the minds of others in their sleep and manipulate their minds, as well as go through their memories and ideas.

  47. Nobunaga Jin October 1, 2014 at 3:41 pm -      #47

    I thought the Description said that Firelord’s Oath would be used as a block to Jagang’s Dream-Walker abilities (yes, I know it says Dream Eater, but I couldn’t find anything about dream eating in my research of Sword of Truth, so I’m just assuming Dream-Walker is what was meant).

    And there’s also Azulon, who pushed the Earth Nation’s forces back towards the capital of Ba Sing Se, and also led the Fire Nation to almost completely eradicate the Southern Water Tribe. He might be a good tactician.

  48. Ragnorke October 1, 2014 at 3:54 pm -      #48

    “He might be a good tactician.”

    Good enough to compete against someone that ended up controlling 99% of the world?
    Jagang wasn’t born into a seat of power, he earned it from literally nothing.
    He got hundreds of millions of people to practically worship him as a god, by tactically invading different places one step at a time, over the course of dozens of years.

  49. Nobunaga Jin October 1, 2014 at 4:10 pm -      #49

    From what I could tell, and I’m going to need your clarification on this one especially, he did that by using his Dreamwalker abilities to bend the will of other people. Of course I doubt that he depended in those powers completely, but still they must’ve had some sort of major role in his conquering of 99% of the world in Sword of Truth.

  50. Ragnorke October 1, 2014 at 4:14 pm -      #50

    “From what I could tell, and I’m going to need your clarification on this one especially, he did that by using his Dreamwalker abilities to bend the will of other people.”

    It generally only works on people with magic.
    Having the gift adds a certain “gene” in your mind, which jagang uses to anchor himself inside it. He has little to no control over normal humans.

    Also, he mentions that he very recently got full control over his powers, and he did most of what he did using his genius & ruthlessness.
    He really prides himself on not being dependant on magic to accomplish what he did, and hates the New World for their reliance on magic. Then again… he is a very hypocritical person.

  51. Nobunaga Jin October 1, 2014 at 4:22 pm -      #51

    I just read a bit about that. How did he gain the trust of normal people then? Were they gullible, or did he strike fear into them?

  52. Ragnorke October 1, 2014 at 4:26 pm -      #52

    I don’t think the people started off gullible, but by the end of it they definitely were. He was fantastic at manipulating people, and almost every time the protagonists discussed Jagang, they would ALWAYS mention his genius.

  53. Nobunaga Jin October 1, 2014 at 4:29 pm -      #53

    So what other tactics has Jagang shown to have devised?

Leave A Response

You must be logged in to post a comment.


Web Design MymensinghPremium WordPress ThemesWeb Development

Modern Gaming

Sad but true.

Curiosity Rover Spotted by Mars Orbiter on Mount Sharp

Humanity is the invading alien now...

Nope

No way I go here alone

17 Rare Star Wars Pictures

To see them, click here

Comic Con 2013 Cosplay Gallery

Just a ton of pictures of cosplayers from the 2013 Comic Con event

Ancient Aliens Map

If you ever watched the show "Ancient Aliens" and wanted a quick reference to where all the locations they mention are at, this is the site for you!

Fictional Universes Database

Soon to be shut down by Google, but here is a great starting point for Fictional Universes

99 Star Wars Pics

Some are cool, some are a bit absurd, but they are all based on Star Wars

Alternate Movie Posters

Something a bit distinct - Check them out

Epic Swiss Army Knife

Not Really...

Future Me

Write yourself an email letter to the future - Future Me

Neil Degrasse Tyson

Star Talk Radio - As always, keep looking up!