Battle for Skyrim

Battle for Skyrim

Suggested by Rookie

Strange powers bring several heroes and villains in Skyrim in order to bring chaos and war once again. Amused by this event Alduin decided to withdraw from country for a while. Dragonborn forced to follow him, and Skyrim lost it’s hero. Thus new war for Skyrim begin.

TEAM ONE
Larloch (Forgotten Realms), Szass Tam (Forgotten Realms), Lich King (World of Warcraft), Alasklerbanbastos (Forgotten Realms), Nerevarine (Elder Scrolls), Chattur’gha (Eternal Darkness), Demogorgon (Forgotten Realms), Quick Ben (Malazan Book of the Fallen), Link (Legend of Zelda), Batman (DC Comics), Tarrasque (Forgotten Realms), Elminster (Forgotten Realms) and Mortarion (Warhammer 40K) formed an alliance and take over city Dawnstar.

TEAM TWO
Harry Dresden, Gandalf (Lord of the Rings), Black Panther (Marvel), Korialstrasz (World of Warcraft), Jaghatai Khan (Warhammer 40K), Archimonde (World of Warcraft), Vaatu (Avatar), Archaon (World of Warcraft), Cthulhu, Nagash (Warhammer Fantasy), Mannoroth (World of Warcraft), Gorbad Ironclaw (Warhammer Fantasy) and Hero of Kvatch (Elder Scrolls) captured city Falkreath and established empire with Korialstrasz as new emperor.

SCENARIO:
These two new powers quickly start to expand their influence and declare war on each other.
Septim Empire realize new threat, but can they stop such enemies?
A new day in Skyrim promised only war…
How will this end? Will Empire stop new enemies? Or maybe one of the new forces will take over Skyrim?
Who will became new ruler of Skyrim?

Related Posts:



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158 Comments on "Battle for Skyrim"

  1. OberHerr September 26, 2014 at 7:07 am -      #1

    I feel like some clarification is gonan be required, but some characters, like Mortarion, are gonna be a bitch to deal with.

    Cthulhu doesn’t have any feats right? Or very poor ones?

    And isn’t the Hero of Kvatch more powerful than the Dragonborn?

  2. Malenfant September 26, 2014 at 7:07 am -      #2

    This probably comes down to between the Neverine, the Tarrasque and Cthulhu pretty quick. And then Demogorgon swoops in and wipes the floor. He’s the type of guy who can drag the entire UNIVERSE into the Abyss.

    For basic ‘utility’ powers, he can purge magic buffs or temporarily suppress magical items, he can change the battlefield with non-dispellable Walls, and he can Shapechange. He also heals wounds incredibly fast, is ridiculously durable, resists magic, can mind-rape people by looking at them, teleport around, read minds, drain life-force, see through invisibility, and summon minions as well.

    He’s got an infinitely-sized plane of existence that he shapes to his will, incredible powers, endless hordes of minions, and is very, very difficult to permanently kill. This is basically like setting a Daedric Prince upon Skyrim.

  3. Rookie September 26, 2014 at 7:17 am -      #3

    Thanks Admin!

    @OberHerr

    Primarchs are pre-heresy right now, Hero of Kvatch is pre-Shivering Isles for now (if someone thinks that it would be more fair to use him as daedric prince avatar I will gladly change this)

    Sorry can’t write alot right now, but here’s feats for Tam from novels:

    BankGamblingtopia.com/viewtopic.php?f=99&t=52183&p=286916

    Chattur’gha:



    Archimonde:



    Some for Alasklerbanbastos and Korialstrasz:

    factpile.com/9508-alasklerbanbastos-kalameet-vs-korialstrasz-archdemon/

    Little about Demogorgon:

  4. Jake_Uzumaki September 26, 2014 at 7:50 am -      #4

    I vote team 2.
    Empire doesn’t stand up against either team.

  5. Ragnorke September 26, 2014 at 8:18 am -      #5

    @Rookie
    YOU PLAYED BULDERS GATE! OHMERGURD!
    That was literally my favourite game. Ever. It was fucking perfect.

  6. Rookie September 26, 2014 at 8:24 am -      #6

    @Ragnorke

    “That was literally my favourite game. Ever. It was fucking perfect.”

    I liked Geneforge (except for part 4), Arcanum and Planescape torment story and RPG part better, but overall (cinematic, battles, story, quests and so on) both Baldur’s gate were great!

  7. Ragnorke September 26, 2014 at 8:26 am -      #7

    @Rookie
    I played Planescape Torment, and it was great.

    Baldurs Gate really shined in the class system imo, with the duel classing & multiclassing… just so many options.
    Still remember using my Kensai-Mage to shred everything.

  8. Kitten Lord September 26, 2014 at 8:28 am -      #8

    I played all the above as well, I like that huge manuel you get with Arcanum, they dont make them like that any more, your lucky to get any reading material at all or a small readme on the disc but you could kill someone with Arcanums manuel, the art on it was awsome too.

    Infact ive still got Planescapes poster on my shelf…..ahh the memories.

    As for Baldur’s gate, I was a shameless cheat, I used to make lots of characters, maybe in multiplayer or singleplayer, cant recall and then sell the most expensive starters armour, I used to do it over and over, collect the funds on my main character then start my adventure loaded lol……course I was very young then, ime sure its horribly inefficient way of getting money.

  9. Ellie Williams September 26, 2014 at 8:39 am -      #9

    What the heck are Batman and Black Panther doing here? And why is Montarion here? He doesn’t fit the roster of fantasy characters.

  10. Rookie September 26, 2014 at 8:43 am -      #10

    @Ellie Williams

    “What the heck are Batman and Black Panther doing here?”

    They might not be the most able fighters here, but they both have brains and experiance to offer.
    I mean, Batman can take down Spectre and BP can take down Silver Surfer when they using their brains. It can’t harm to have capable advisers during the war.

  11. Jake_Uzumaki September 26, 2014 at 9:02 am -      #11

    Black Panther is also quite versed in magic, so he’s quite a boon for his team between him Gandalf and Dresden, Dresden is versed in multiple fictional universes including being familiar with DC and Marvel Comics, Lord of the Rings, Lovecraft works, and the works from GamesWorkshop (the people who bring you Warhammer Fantasy and 40K). So he brings very useful knowledge and several of the people on his team’s powers can mesh and knowledge of some of team 1 and what they can do and their mentalities. Including how to most psychologically hurt Batman.

  12. Ragnorke September 26, 2014 at 9:24 am -      #12

    “I mean, Batman can take down Spectre and BP can take down Silver Surfer when they using their brains.”

    …Dude, lets not.
    They didn’t use their “brains”, they just flat out kicked the shit out of the Spectre & Silver Surfer, god knows how. It was complete bullshit.

    “What the heck are Batman and Black Panther doing here?”

    They’re some of the physically strongest, fastest, most durable, most skilled, and most intelligent people in this match actually…

  13. Jake_Uzumaki September 26, 2014 at 9:27 am -      #13

    Actually Black Panther used a special gadget to steal some of the Power Cosmic from Surfer if I remember right…so he had like half the Surfers power during the armbar incident if I remember right.

  14. OberHerr September 26, 2014 at 9:38 am -      #14

    Aw, I was looking forward to Daemon Prince Mort tearing up Skyrim……

    But I didn’t notice Nerevarine. Yeah, he/she is gonna be a huge help for Team 1.

    And I guess Mort and Khan more or less cancel each other out, though I’d give the edge to Khan.

    Archaon should be some help….it’d be cool if we could somehow include each of these peoples armies without too much issue….but the Death Guard/White Scars would be OP to most of the forces here.

  15. Neon Lord September 26, 2014 at 9:41 am -      #15

    “Archaon (World of Warcraft)”

    A mistake maybe?

    “Nagash (Warhammer Fantasy)”

    Are we assuming the Winds of Magic still exist? If not, then he can’t exist. If yes, then say hello to every single dead thing in the realm being raised under his command.

  16. OberHerr September 26, 2014 at 9:42 am -      #16

    And that’s a lot of dead stuff in Skyrim….holy shoot.

    Plus isn’t Gorbad Ironclaw the guy who almost killed Archaon? That guy is gonna be annoying as heck.

  17. Rookie September 26, 2014 at 9:47 am -      #17

    @Neon Lord

    “A mistake maybe?”

    Yes.

    @OberHerr

    “Aw, I was looking forward to Daemon Prince Mort tearing up Skyrim……”

    Honestly his current (pre-prince) versions way more impressive IMO.

    “Archaon should be some help….it’d be cool if we could somehow include each of these peoples armies without too much issue”

    They can still summon daemonic minions (or similar creatures) from their verses if, of course, they were able to do it in their verses. So no SM, but if Archaon have knowledge how to summon demons he can summon them.

    “Are we assuming the Winds of Magic still exist?”

    How could we not? But it’s not like he is the only tough necromancer around.

  18. Ragnorke September 26, 2014 at 10:10 am -      #18

    Black Panther makes a device to absorb everyones magic, and boom. The end.
    Seriously though, if he really absorbed the power cosmic from the surfer… this should be childs play for him… And he has prep time and all too.

  19. Friendlysociopath September 26, 2014 at 10:20 am -      #19

    Wow, that’s uh, that’s a lot of people.
    My gut reaction is for Team 1 on account of them having access to Dungeons and Dragons magic via Elminster.
    This will take a lot of research though.

  20. Commander Cross September 26, 2014 at 10:37 am -      #20

    On one hand:

    Side A’s champions The Nerevarine(Nerevar Reborn), Link(The Legend of Zelda, although no specified incarnations are made yet.), and Elminster himself.

    On the other hand:

    Side B’s Champions has someone born on All Hallows’ Eve/Halloween(Dresden, Post-Changes, and wearing the Pumpkin lets him do potentially anything.), an Expy to Odin(Gandalf), The Black Panther and one of the rulers of The Empire from TES, courtesy of The Hero of Kvatch.*

    1.) (It don’t hurt his side any that he eventually became The New Sheogorath upon his ascension, and no matter how much Cheese there’d be, I’d understand why The Hero of Kvatch is gonna be Mortal in this.)

  21. GMoney September 26, 2014 at 10:44 am -      #21

    tough call. I would side with team 2 as they have Nagash, a being powerful enough to challenge the chaos gods and he can control all the undead in skyrim. But, it sound like forgotten realms has some pretty hax stuff.

  22. Friendlysociopath September 26, 2014 at 11:18 am -      #22

    Boy, I can’t read for shit before breakfast- Team 1 has FIVE Forgotten Realms magic users?! Game over man, game over.

    Admittedly, this is a poor debating stance, but unless Team 2 can make themselves immune to time stops this is going to get very bad very quickly. It’s even in-character for Larloch- can’t speak for everyone else though.

  23. Sauroposeidon September 26, 2014 at 11:20 am -      #23

    Batman takes this.

  24. Commander Cross September 26, 2014 at 11:38 am -      #24

    As you can see, Post #23 is not in Modern-day English. 😀

    ____

    Anyway, if The Hero of Kvatch is Post-Oblivion, he’ll be either Pre-or-Post Shivering Isles and it makes one hell of a difference here.

    The only way for Batman to solo is if he’s better than Batman, which he isn’t.

  25. Praetor Prefect September 26, 2014 at 12:03 pm -      #25

    My bro Mortarion! Let’s see him and khan fight again.

    @Ober
    I would’ve liked to see that too. A daemon prince would’ve been a little op though don’t you think?

  26. Warlock Lowk September 26, 2014 at 12:08 pm -      #26

    I agree with the dino guy, Batman solos.

  27. Rookie September 26, 2014 at 12:09 pm -      #27

    @Praetor Prefect

    “A daemon prince would’ve been a little op though”

    It still might happen. We still have 23 posts before 50. But so far team 1 looks strong enough.

  28. Praetor Prefect September 26, 2014 at 12:17 pm -      #28

    Indeed, I’ll have to go with the team who has both Batman and Mortarion. Also, I’ve been trying to think up a match for Drazhar, can we throw him in here too?

    I’d say team 2 has the opportunity to fortify a much better position if they can capture Markarth quickly. A large and heavily fortified city could do wonders. I’m gonna have to support team 1 over all though, especially if they head for Windhelm or Solitude.

  29. Rookie September 26, 2014 at 12:25 pm -      #29

    @Praetor Prefect

    “Also, I’ve been trying to think up a match for Drazhar, can we throw him in here too?”

    No, sadly. Teams already been made, it’s too late to add members now IMO.

    But you can create and suggest similar match. If you need any helps about characters, battlefields or something like that, there is always someone to help both here and BankGamblingtopia.com/viewforum.php?f=99

    “I’d say team 2 has the opportunity to fortify a much better position if they can capture Markarth quickly. ”

    Yes, but they have Septim Empire behind them, unlike team 1 who only have sea behind them and is relatively safe.

  30. Jake_Uzumaki September 26, 2014 at 12:26 pm -      #30

    ” Batman solos.”

    He would, but Black Panther is Batman +11 so Black Panther solos by that logic.
    Plus Dresden is Batman plus magic and snark
    so double the Batman power for team 2 😛

  31. Ragnorke September 26, 2014 at 12:34 pm -      #31

    Now my knowledge of the Forgotten Realms isn’t huge, aside from playing games like Bulders Gate & Neverwinter (and a couple of times where i played table-top with some friends, but none of us really knew what we were doing)… Doesn’t Demogorgon kinda stomp here? Like big time stomp?

    I don’t know all the characters in this match, but out of all the characters i do know, Demogorgon is leagues above them.
    So is there anyone in the other team that can actually put up a fight?

  32. Praetor Prefect September 26, 2014 at 12:49 pm -      #32

    @Rookie
    Forgot about Match Aide…yeah…

    Anyway, the empire isn’t going to be doing much to stop team 1 the way I see it.

  33. Warlock Lowk September 26, 2014 at 12:59 pm -      #33

    “He would, but Black Panther is Batman +11 so Black Panther solos by that logic.”

    Don’t be absurd you can’t be a higher level the one Batman. Only cosmics can do that.
    BP would be seen as a redguard. Batman could probably pass as nord or imperial so he’d have a slight leg up in relation to the larger precentage. That said Batman would probably be to busy bringing down the stormcloaks and the thalmor. Those guys are racist assholes.

  34. Ragnorke September 26, 2014 at 1:01 pm -      #34

    Doesn’t matter which team wins, in the end Batman will be the true ruler. The silent guardian, the watchful protector. Not the ruler that Skyrim deserves, but the ruler that Skyrim needs.

  35. Warlock Lowk September 26, 2014 at 1:26 pm -      #35

    Ya just can’t help but not take Bats seriously. He’s some rich detective guy compared to two kings and a reed richards. He should not be pulling nth metal batarangs like it nothing and fighting with superhumans.

  36. Rookie September 26, 2014 at 1:58 pm -      #36

    So Demogorgon is a fair bit stronger… Nasty miscalculation from me… I should’ve use Orcus instead.
    Good. We can use “him” now.
    Hero of Kvatch now is in his prime\strongest incarnation. Since he is Daedric Prince, let him stalemate\keep busy\(defeat maybe?) Demogorgon during this match, this way others are free to fight for Skyrim!

  37. Secrecy27 September 26, 2014 at 2:01 pm -      #37

    Considering Batman lacks any kind of modern equipment (except what he has on him) , doesn’t that take away any prep-hax he usually has?

  38. Rookie September 26, 2014 at 2:05 pm -      #38

    @Secrecy27

    “doesn’t that take away any prep-hax he usually has?”

    Not entirely. He have wizards among his team who can make wonders with their magic. And since he is here to advise\guide them, this may compensate lack of his usual tools.

  39. Warlock Lowk September 26, 2014 at 2:14 pm -      #39

    “Considering Batman lacks any kind of modern equipment (except what he has on him) , doesn’t that take away any prep-hax he usually has?”

    Elder Scrolls has alchemy, dwarven machinery, vampire curses, and people who can enchant items. He can still essentially do stuff like this again.
    abload.de/img/batmanincorporated12-xnd51.jpg
    Thats Batman pumped with a serum to make him stronger and faster. Wearing mystical armor. In an exoskeleton with cloaking.

  40. Secrecy27 September 26, 2014 at 2:25 pm -      #40

    Not entirely. He have wizards among his team who can make wonders with their magic. And since he is here to advise\guide them, this may compensate lack of his usual tools.

    I’m pretty sure Batman, as a non-magic user, can’t help magic users with their magic.

    Elder Scrolls has alchemy, dwarven machinery, vampire curses, and people who can enchant items.

    Can understand alchemy, but saying Batman can understand dwemer tech just because he is, well, Batman doesn’t sit well with me. And what usefulness would he be with vampire curses?

  41. Ragnorke September 26, 2014 at 2:27 pm -      #41

    To be fair, batman IS a super human, whether people want to admit it or not.

    Dodging every single bullet from a machine gun, while running down a narrow tunnel TOWARDS the shooter?
    Deflecting a bullet at point blank?
    Having enough strength in one arm to hold on to an airplanes engine propeller thing?
    Appearing & disappearing from view in the blink of an eye? Even with Superman?

    And then you have things like spending 30 days meditating naked on the top of a freezing mountain, no sleep or food.
    Fighting naked in a freezing cold arena for 3 days straight, and still in perfect condition, to the point where the other fighters are too scared to continue challenging him.
    Completing “every” college degree & mastering “every” form of martial arts by the age of EIGHTEEN.

    All that shit’s Super Human, not “peak human”

  42. Secrecy27 September 26, 2014 at 2:33 pm -      #42

    Dodging every single bullet from a machine gun, while running down a narrow tunnel TOWARDS the shooter?
    Deflecting a bullet at point blank?
    Having enough strength in one arm to hold on to an airplanes engine propeller thing?
    Appearing & disappearing from view in the blink of an eye? Even with Superman?

    And then you have things like spending 30 days meditating naked on the top of a freezing mountain, no sleep or food.
    Fighting naked in a freezing cold arena for 3 days straight, and still in perfect condition, to the point where the other fighters are too scared to continue challenging him.
    Completing “every” college degree & mastering “every” form of martial arts by the age of EIGHTEEN.

    All that shit’s Super Human, not “peak human”


    And he is the most overwanked human ever created. He is a perfect example when the creators lose their connection to reality.

  43. Ragnorke September 26, 2014 at 2:35 pm -      #43

    “And he is the most overwanked human ever created.”

    But overwanked by the writers, not by us. We’re just going by what we see in the comics themselves.

  44. Friendlysociopath September 26, 2014 at 2:39 pm -      #44

    “And he is the most overwanked human ever created. He is a perfect example when the creators lose their connection to reality.”

    This is pretty much the only reason I don’t care for Batman as a character.
    Edit: Crap, that’s a waste of a comment.
    Err, TARRASQUE!
    Oh, and a question- who’s the leader of Team 1? Team 2 has Korialstrasz set as Emperor, is Team 1 just a council of some kind?

  45. Warlock Lowk September 26, 2014 at 2:48 pm -      #45

    “And he is the most overwanked human ever created. He is a perfect example when the creators lose their connection to reality.”

    I don’t even understand how that can be when Blackpanter and Doom exist.
    Doom is one of the view villains that I know actually won long term wise. He has his own country. He fought lions bare handed , master of both tech and magic.
    Black Panther has a op suit of invulnerability and pulls out more random gadgets out of his ass then pre-crisis superman has pulled powers.

    One drained Galactus and the other beat Mephisto. How is Batman the one that gets hated because of doing crazy stuff and these two are basically celebrated for it?

  46. VulkanMatath September 26, 2014 at 2:55 pm -      #46

    I do’t know who wins, but i’ll say team 2 has the edge in basic troops. Nagash should be able to take control of every undead creature in all of skyrim, plus every dead thing within a few miles of falkreath, and could probably resurect all the dragon skeletons left by the dragonborne all around skyrim to either use as they are or make into replacements for the morgasts he no longer has. Don’t know which would be more effective. And he himself is no pushover. He is a monster in close combat (by whfb standards at least) and a very powerfull mage. (hes the only level 5 wizard in the history of warhammer).

  47. Friendlysociopath September 26, 2014 at 3:04 pm -      #47

    “Nagash should be able to take control of every undead creature in all of skyrim, plus every dead thing within a few miles of falkreath, and could probably resurect all the dragon skeletons left by the dragonborne all around skyrim to either use as they are or make into replacements for the morgasts he no longer has”

    Team 1 has the Lich King from World of Warcraft, never played it but isn’t that his shtick as well?

  48. Ragnorke September 26, 2014 at 3:10 pm -      #48

    “Team 1 has the Lich King from World of Warcraft, never played it but isn’t that his shtick as well?”

    But you see, the Lich King doesn’t have the ability to command any undead, but rather has the ability to command the Sourge, which is an army of undead.

    He controls his army, and can create more of his army, but cannot control “undead” that were created from a different source.
    Hope that makes sense.

  49. Jake_Uzumaki September 26, 2014 at 3:22 pm -      #49

    @Lowk
    Black Panther runs a magitech country and was creating Dr. Doom level power armors when he was 12.
    Batman owns a company and was sucking on a silver spoon when he was twelve.

    Black Panther eats an herb to get the blessing of a Panther god or goddess depending on when in the timeline he is and was trained as a warrior for most of his life and then mastered every martial art over the years.
    Batman is just a guy that works out and wandered around when he hit 20 to go learn martial arts.

    Black Panther’s gear is hax because it’s retardedly high tech and usually has virbranium which is almost as hax as Adamantium
    Batman’s gear is hax because the writers don’t give a fuck and just say it’s because he’s Batman

    Black Panther only does crazy hax stuff once or twice out of a hundred comics if that but isn’t famous for it.
    Batman does crazy shit every time the words justice league or Superman is on the front cover of the book he’s in and is famous for it thus people wank the bullshit feats.

  50. Rookie September 26, 2014 at 3:34 pm -      #50

    Some feats for Ben:

    “A concussion shook the very air, but it came from the Nah’ruk lines. A billowing black cloud rose like a stain of spilled ink.
    ‘Gods, what was that?’
    Hedge’s grin broadened. ‘That, soldiers, was Quick Ben.’

    Lightning arced out from hundreds of clubs, from multiple phalanxes to either side of the one he had attacked. The bolts snapped towards him, then slanted off as Quick Ben flung them aside. And I ain’t Tayschrenn and this ain’t Pale. Got no one behind me, so keep throwing them my way, y’damned geckos. Use it all up!
    The first dozen or so ranks of the phalanx he’d struck were down, a few writhing or feebly struggling to rise with crushed limbs and snapped bones. Most were motionless, their bodies boiled from the inside out. As he walked towards those who remained, he saw them regrouping, forming a line to face him once more.
    The huge falchions and halberds lifted in readiness.
    Quick Ben extended his senses, until he could feel the very air around the creatures, could follow currents of that air as they slipped through gills into reptilian lungs. He reached out to encompass as many of them as possible.
    And then he set the air on fire.

    Lightning shunted from the High Mage, careened off into the sky and out to the sides.”

    “He’d annihilated an entire phalanx, and where it had been the fires of superheated flesh, hide and bone still raged in an inferno. She saw him marching towards another phalanx, above him the sky convulsing, blackening like a bruise.
    Sorcery erupted from the High Mage, struck the phalanx. Burning corpses lifted into the air.
    ‘I see him. Adjunct – I can’t—’
    From the darkness in the sky a sudden glow, blinding, and then an enormous spear of lightning descended. She saw the High Mage look up, saw him raise his arms – and then the bolt struck. The explosion could have levelled a tenement block. Even the Nah’ruk in the phalanx thirty or more paces away were flattened like sheaves of wheat. Flanking units buckled on the facing sides.”

  51. Ragnorke September 26, 2014 at 3:54 pm -      #51

    @Jake
    “Black Panther runs a magitech country and was creating Dr. Doom level power armors when he was 12.”

    And this doesn’t seem like “bullshit wankage” on the writers part to you?
    Its just as bad as batman, if not worse.
    So why the hate against batsy?

    “Batman owns a company and was sucking on a silver spoon when he was twelve.”

    Not true,
    He mastered every college degree & form of martial arts when he was 18…
    So either he did all that in 6 years, or he was actually a pretty active little boy.

    “Black Panther eats an herb to get the blessing of a Panther god or goddess depending on when in the timeline he is”

    Is it so hard to believe that Batman has augmented himself too?
    We have no evidence of him having augmented himself, but we do have evidence of him being more than what a human should be… and Since he’s a billionaire genius… MAYBE he took some “performance enhancers”

    “Batman is just a guy that works out and wandered around when he hit 20 to go learn martial arts.”

    Nope, he mastered every form of martial arts before he was 18.

    “Black Panther’s gear is hax because it’s retardedly high tech ”

    Umm… Batmans gear is hax because it’s retardely high tech too… so… What’s the issue?
    i can’t help but feel like you’re being a LITTLE bit too biased here.

    “Black Panther only does crazy hax stuff once or twice out of a hundred comics if that but isn’t famous for it.”

    Why are you talking like batman does crazy hax in every comic? he doesn’t.
    How many batman comics have you actually read? he’s more often than not just acting like a detective with martial arts.

    He’s famous for his hax bullshit, true… but the writers don’t get to determine what makes a character famous.
    Black Panther has just as many bullshit showings as batman does, he’s just not famous for it, because no one gives a shit about him.
    Stop making it sound like Black Panthers hax is justifiable… whereas when batman does it, it becomes “wankage”

  52. Warlock Lowk September 26, 2014 at 4:17 pm -      #52

    “Black Panther runs a magitech country and was creating Dr. Doom level power armors when he was 12.
    Batman owns a company and was sucking on a silver spoon when he was twelve.”

    1. Thats a worse example. People complain about Bat’s smarts and prep skill that he built up over decades of learning, training, and experience like a normal person does yet panthers building armor at 12.
    2. His parents died at 8. He wasn’t sucking a silver spoon. It was just placed in front of him. He went to school by day and spent the rest unwittingly learning to be a detective searching for the court of owls.
    ===
    “Batman is just a guy that works out and wandered around when he hit 20 to go learn martial arts.”

    So. People in both their universes have done less training and ended up becoming super death machines. Bat ended becoming thay skilled because he didn’t just wander. He had a purpose and that drove him. And I think his experiance actually goes back further then his 20s, thats just when the serious shit started.
    ===
    “Black Panther’s gear is hax because it’s retardedly high tech and usually has virbranium which is almost as hax as Adamantium
    Batman’s gear is hax because the writers don’t give a fuck and just say it’s because he’s Batman”

    Bats company has international reach and his resources allow him to build secret bases for superheroes. He has geniuses employed and is friends with an alien, a demigod, a magician, and a supercompter made from exotic tech who all care for him and share.
    His crazy tech didn’t start until after the league, and it came over time. It more then “because he’s batman”. Thats a meme/joke.
    ===
    “Black Panther only does crazy hax stuff once or twice out of a hundred comics if that but isn’t famous for it.”

    Does it pretty much everytime he is teamed up or in a group of supers… Sound familar? Bats stuff normally stays pretty sane he rarely pulls out something like a force fields, energy claws gaunlets that can hurt namor, or teleportation out if his ass.
    BP is guilty of doing pretty much everything bats is hated for and more.

  53. Rookie September 26, 2014 at 4:22 pm -      #53

    Some info about Elminster:
    dndtools.eu/spells/forgotten-realms-campaign-setting–19/elminsters-evasion–1201/
    “Safehold” spell, for cures and resurrection.
    It activates if one of the next things happens:
    Upon his own death;
    Upon loss of his mental faculties;
    Upon loss of his physical faculties;
    Upon destruction of both upper limbs.
    Upon destruction of total body volume;
    Upon his utterance of the word “Thaele.”

    “El kept his eyes on the elf lord. This had gone on long enough; if Delmuth Echorn wanted to see a death so badly, it’d have to be his own. Safe inside his shield, Elminster carefully made an elaborate casting, and then another that called up his mage-sight, and waited. One advantage to battling elves with human spells was that they largely didn’t recognize the castings, and so could be surprised by the final results.
    This one was Mruster’s Twist, a further modification of Jhalavan’s Fond Return. It allowed a mage who could think fast to change spells that were being returned to their caster into different magics. Now if this Delmuth was just foolish enough to try to blast a certain annoying human to dust, and keep close to Elminster as he did it, so he didn’t notice that the spreading furies of his spells were left over from their first strikes, and not their rebounds . . .
    Delmuth enthusiastically proved he was just foolish enough, hurling a spell El had never seen before that brought into being a tray of acid above the victim’s head and let its contents rain down.”


    In answer, the very air seemed to shatter with an ear-splitting shriek. A gigantic ball of flame suddenly
    towered over the meadow, its heat blistering the watchers’ faces.

    It was like the sun had fallen.

    As mages cried out and shaded their eyes, the fireball rolled away from the awed crowd for a trembling
    instant, then burst in a blinding white flash, hurling out its mighty energies in a long jet of flame that roared
    away to the horizon. The earth shook and seemed to leap upward, throwing all but the Old Mage to their
    knees.

    When the shaking had died away, Storm found herself lying beside the horses on the turf. By the time
    she had struggled to her feet and shook her head clear, the roiling smoke had died away and everyone
    could see what Elminster’s magic had wrought in the meadow. Or rather, what had been the meadow.
    Where a broad expanse of flame-scorched grass had stretched a moment before, a smoking crater now
    yawned, large and deep and very impressive.

    “Umm … nice, isn’t it?” Elminster said rather vaguely.

    “I’d forgotten how much fun hurling fire is! How does the spell go again?”

    This time, the Old Mage merely waved a finger.

    His young opponent, clinging to a red metal staff now battered and bent in six places, was just getting to
    his knees when another ball of flames as big as the first roared over the meadow. That was enough to
    send him tumbling again, and the young mage soon found himself atop a dazed and rotund Calishite
    sorcerer. When he could see clearly again, the mage saw a second crater smoking in the distance. Awed
    murmuring could be heard from the watching wizards all around.”

  54. Warlock Lowk September 26, 2014 at 4:25 pm -      #54

    “Batman can understand dwemer tech just because he is, well, Batman doesn’t sit well with me.”

    Not understand but materials are there in them that could be useful in exoskeleton. I think thier power source can also be used as well

  55. Rookie September 26, 2014 at 4:28 pm -      #55

    Archimonde (powerscalling from another powerful eredar warlock, Kil’Jaedan):

    “The sky darkened. First to an angry red that invaded the amber skies like a premonition of doom. After a few moments, the color began to shift to an ever-more-nauseating shade of green. Flaring comets screamed from the diseased heavens and struck the earth, sending all the poor creatures scattering in panic. The comets stood up from their craters, towering and terrible, and began to rain down death with ruthless efficiency. A rip opened in the air near the prince, and a flood of horror spilled out: winged demons and alluring succubi wielding greenish-yellow fire and powerful magic, destroying everything in their path. After the dark army had finished its deployment, a gigantic form walked through the rift, and it looked too much like the draenei for the prince not to notice.
    This last being leveled the rock sculptures around him, clearing a space where he could kneel in the dust made from his destruction and draw symbols of dread power with his clawed finger. When he finished, there was a moment of perfect quiet as the slaughter halted and the entire world waited in horrified stillness.
    And then, an explosion.
    The unleashed energies ripped the world’s surface apart, and Anduin found himself crying out and throwing his arms up in terror, but the magics moved right through him without harm. The Legion marched back into the portal, returning to the dark nexus of the demons’ dwelling, and in their wake was left… nothing. Nothing alive, at any rate. Even the wondrous rock formations—Anduin would never know if they were natural or carved by the alien life he’d witnessed—were no more. There was only ash and broken matter. Even the sky was clouded, no longer allowing a clear view of the four moons.
    Then, mercifully, the vision ended.
    Anduin stood before the Prophet once again, and although he fought the impulse and was angry with himself, he wept.
    “There is no shame in mourning so much lost,” Velen said gently.
    “What world was it? When did this happen?” the prince asked through his tears.
    “I do not know its name. Its inhabitants did not speak in ways we understand, and none of the mortal races from this world ever walked there. I call it Fanlin’Deskor: Amber Skies over Wondrous Rock. Given that I doubt the Legion records its victims—or even deigns to recall them—we are likely the only ones in the universe who know it existed at all.””

  56. Jake_Uzumaki September 26, 2014 at 4:31 pm -      #56

    “Is it so hard to believe that Batman has augmented himself too?
    We have no evidence of him having augmented himself, but we do have evidence of him being more than what a human should be… and Since he’s a billionaire genius… MAYBE he took some “performance enhancers””

    Because it kind of invalidates a good chunk of his character which is supposed to be being a human who manages to be relevant in a world with people on super steroids and that are walking gods.

    In his comics yes he stays to his tier but he threw bombs at Cyborg Superman recently and only didn’t get killed because Kara wasn’t one second further away and Cyborg Supes felt like a monologue about how awesome he is.
    by all logic he should have been vaporized the second he did that and wasn’t because of plot.

    Black Panther’s only major PIS moment is when he stole juice from Silver Surfer, most other encounters can be contributed purely to the fact his Vibranium armor took the kinetic energy of most blows.
    The only other thing I can think of is the time he beat Mephisto, but that ended up happening because T’Challa’s soul is bound with the souls of all the Black Panthers and Mephisto couldn’t hold that many souls in his earthly form at one time so that was pure luck and BP knowing the kind of person Mephisto is.
    Panther even knew that he would be fucked if he tried to do anything more than stall Phoenix Force Namor for a few seconds.

    Black Panther is also never shown on comic covers fighting the entire Avengers roster
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/103530/4118712-8665868571-14115.jpg

  57. Rookie September 26, 2014 at 4:34 pm -      #57

    More about Elminster:
    www.angelfire.com/d20/vaelos/Elminster.html

  58. OberHerr September 26, 2014 at 5:28 pm -      #58

    “Black Panther is also never shown on comic covers fighting the entire Avengers roster
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/103530/4118712-8665868571-14115.jpg”

    img.ifcdn.com/images/1f54ffaf4bd7db300840d086f69f1f1a4bef72deba7d18c39f2ec223c0d9e001_1.gif

  59. Rookie September 26, 2014 at 5:35 pm -      #59

    @Jake_Uzumaki

    “Black Panther is also never shown on comic covers fighting the entire Avengers roster
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/103530/4118712-8665868571-14115.jpg”

    He is going to win, isn’t he?
    Well… not surprising… but I just have to post these now:
    superdickery.com/images/stories/dick/1449_4_063.jpg
    superdickery.com/images/stories/dick/216_4_186.jpg

    And I kinda agree with Superman.

  60. Ragnorke September 26, 2014 at 5:36 pm -      #60

    “by all logic he should have been vaporized the second he did that and wasn’t because of plot.”

    And the Black Panther should have been instantly vaporized at FTL speeds when he was against the Silver Surfer.
    Both characters have equal amounts of bullshit PiS, and so does Dr. Doom for that matter, yet batman is the only one that consistently gets hate for it.

    “Black Panther’s only major PIS moment is when he stole juice from Silver Surfer, ”

    This is his biggest PiS moment, true, but not his only.
    Also, Batman has NEVER had PiS this bad. When has batman ever absorbed power from a FTL planet buster? making him capable of fighting said FTL planet buster?

    He beat the spectre, but chances are that was because Batman wasn’t guilty of anything, and thus the Spectre couldn’t use his “wrath of god” powers on him.
    Granted it’s still major PiS, but nothing as bad as absorbing the fucking power cosmic.

    And how about Dr. Doom huh?
    That guy has become omnipotent for fucks sake.
    But nope. Batman’s the ONLY person with bullshit PiS right?

    “Black Panther is also never shown on comic covers fighting the entire Avengers roster”

    Because Black Panther isn’t anywhere near as relevant.
    Shall we compare how many times Batman has saved earth & the justice league, compared to how many times black panther has done it?

    Batman actually uses his intelligence, and we see it in almost every comic issue. We see him discuss his plans, and his back up plans, and his stealth, and we see him working on developing new tech.
    Whereas Black Panther? yea, he’s some smart guy, who never appears to do anything smart other than pop out high tech devices whenever the plot demands it. Such a clever guy.
    But by all means, lets all hate on Batman for his PiS, and no one else.

  61. OberHerr September 26, 2014 at 5:40 pm -      #61

    Doom and Panther both have respective abilities to back their shit up. Batman almost never has the armor, nor the speed, nor the hitting potential to contend with ANYONE he fights above street level. PIS and plotshielding is basically his power. Not saying Doom or BP don’t ever have PIS on their side, but they can fight high-tier people for a reason.

    Sure, BP didn’t get killed by the SS. That’s PIS, assuming SS was actively trying to kill him or stop him as he drained him. As is Batman not being killed by virtually any member of the Justice League above street-level, or any of their enemies, or pretty much 90% of people in comics.

    And your really gonna defend Batman against BP by saying BP relies on pulling random shit out of his “I’m smart” closet? Really? You realize Batman basically made that trope right?

    Irregardless, I have a football game to go to. Hopefully we’ll win…..but I dunno. I’ll be on later tonight.

  62. Ragnorke September 26, 2014 at 5:47 pm -      #62

    “. As is Batman not being killed by virtually any member of the Justice League above street-level, or any of their enemies, or pretty much 90% of people in comics.”

    But he DOESN’T fight people above street level in the comics.
    99% of his comic issues ARE him fighting streel level foes, or slightly superhuman foes like bane and etc…
    And even in the JL issues, he’s usually in the back lines, not actively fighting.

    There really isn’t as much PiS as everyone thinks, not even close.
    Sure, the few scans which get extremely popular are major wankage by the writers, but that’s WHY they get popular.. those few showings of PiS do not represent the character as a whole.

    “Doom and Panther both have respective abilities to back their shit up. ”

    Doom has abilities which allow him to fight an omnipotent?
    Kay then.

  63. Epicazeroth September 26, 2014 at 6:24 pm -      #63

    Haven’t read yet. But first impressions? Assuming no Morrowind or Oblivion potion exploits?

    I feel like the team with Cthulhu and Archimonde is a bit OP.

  64. Alpha or Omega September 26, 2014 at 6:28 pm -      #64

    Chattur’gha and the Lich King have an advantage thanks to the battlefield.
    Doesn’t Skyrim have a bunch of dead bodies everywhere?
    These two are capable of bringing zombies into the battlefield.
    Lich King, as far as I know, has an AoE soul attack called the Harvest Soul that drains the soul of his enemies, but it takes a while and it has a range of 60 yds. He also has an aoe attack called the Necrotic Plague which sends a plague to the enemy at 50,000 yds.
    www.wowwiki.com/Lich_King_(Icecrown_Citadel_tactics)
    While it’s a wiki, it quotes the description of the attack and has a reference to each attack.
    /
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie_CpMFiMIk
    Chattur’gha’s Black Guardian is huge in size.
    @1:33, we see that guns fail to work on him and see that Ulyaoth’s spells, which focus on dimensions and magic, only work against his black guardian.
    @2:20, we see Chattur’gha summoning his zombies to help his black guardian and his monsters are able to drain his sanity if they notice the protagonist.(Which is common in the game. The monsters are able to drain your sanity)
    /
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC_iOYvTBYM
    Some of the monsters under Chattur’gha have zombies that regrow their limbs, bonethieves that can physically take over human bodies and use them as disguises, and the “horror” monsters are capable of crushing stone and cutting metal.
    This is aside from the fact each one are capable of draining the sanity from the enemy team.

  65. Turtle Commando September 26, 2014 at 6:31 pm -      #65

    Okay, I’m sorry this post isn’t really that much of a contribution. BUT: Batman and BP are actually valuable assets. Also, as far as I know physics and science should work the same in TES…just with magic thrown in to boot. They have never outright stated that the laws that govern the universe (besides the obligatory magic exists) are different from what we see now. SOOOO, why shouldn’t they be able to build tech? And if they can recruit magicians/already know magicians/interact with them constantly they should be able to grasp what to do to make HAX OP gear.

    AS for the Nerevarine and Champion of Cyrrodil (You say hero of Kvatch I say potahtoh Blame it on the Elder Scrolls Wiki I frequent so much) THEY are also HAX OP in their own right as far as Skyrim goes. Considering the spells that the Nerevarine is capable of….mass healing, super jump, cloaking, teleportation, and the ability to nerf people’s intelligence and attributes to name a few….I think they are EXTREMELY important.

    Now, as for the rest I don’t really know, but HOW much of the game should we consider for TES protagonists? 100% completion?

  66. Praetor Prefect September 26, 2014 at 6:35 pm -      #66

    If this is original cthulhu, I don’t think he’s going to do very much in direct combat. Dude lost to a boat…In all seriousness, they should use his ability to influence dreams to undermine the enemy. That is, if they’re vulnerable to such an attack. It seems the old ones mostly affect the insane or weak minded iirc.

  67. Friendlysociopath September 26, 2014 at 6:40 pm -      #67

    Question- are all Forgotten Realms novels canon? Cause I’ve got one where Elminster literally reflects spells back at the user- it’s an actual D&D spell but it’s proof Elminster has it and uses it.

  68. Alpha or Omega September 26, 2014 at 6:41 pm -      #68

    Also, Chattur’gha’s spells are able to buff or make someone resilient so that should help team 1.

  69. Epicazeroth September 26, 2014 at 6:54 pm -      #69

    @Ragnorke: “Doom has abilities which allow him to fight an omnipotent?”
    He has the ability of being possibly the smartest person on Earth, and being a master of science and magic, so he knows how to steal power to fight an omnipotent.
    ===
    BTW, Batman punched Bizarro out in Forever Evil. So… a bit above street-level. And then Lex took a hit from Alexander Luthor.

  70. Warlock Lowk September 26, 2014 at 6:54 pm -      #70

    “Black Panther is also never shown on comic covers fighting the entire Avengers roster
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/103530/4118712-8665868571-14115.jpg”

    Oh my god a cover that has superheroes fighting. Guess what they had one where Aquaman was standing triumphantly over green lantern with the trident at his throat. SO?
    ===
    “In his comics yes he stays to his tier but he threw bombs at Cyborg Superman recently and only didn’t get killed because Kara wasn’t one second further away and Cyborg Supes felt like a monologue about how awesome he is.”

    Again So? Thats happened to panther, ironman, and Captain America several times. He lost that encounter.
    ===
    “by all logic he should have been vaporized the second he did that and wasn’t because of plot.”

    Actually thats in line with CIS on Cyborg superman’s part. Dude is kind like Cell when it comes to gloating.
    ===
    “Black Panther’s only major PIS moment is when he stole juice from Silver Surfer”

    Don’t give me dat jibba jabba. Panther lasted against a guy that rocked super skrull and Gladiator down.
    ===
    “Doom and Panther both have respective abilities to back their shit up.”

    Thats the thing though. It scakes though. Sure they have better tech but they still do stuff that should be way of of theure league and No one bats an eye. Doom took galactus’ power using found tech and other shit with prep and all I ever hear is praise how he’s so amazing.
    Panther was putting a beating on Namor by bring shit out of fucking nowhere. The same guy that can fight hulk.
    Batman puts on one of the most advanced peices of tech in the univese to barely survive darksied and everyone all “boo bullshit”
    ===
    “Batman almost never has the armor, nor the speed, nor the hitting potential to contend with ANYONE he fights above street level.”

    And he rarely every wins without it, some tech, or help. Just like BP Doom and everyone else that wants to win a fight outside of their league.
    Help isn’t PIS. He works with superheores as a part of his job, help is a fucking perk. They built him emergency piece of armor just in case they couldn’t.
    ===
    “PIS and plotshielding is basically his power.”

    No. Intelligence, money, and resources are his power. And he uses that to make or do shit that can help. Just like BP.
    ===
    “Not saying Doom or BP don’t ever have PIS on their side, but they can fight high-tier people for a reason.”

    Yeah, the exact same reason Batman manages it. They have some shit prepared for something somehow. But only Batman is the one that gets shit on because of it. Thats what I don’t get.
    ===
    “And your really gonna defend Batman against BP by saying BP relies on pulling random shit out of his “I’m smart” closet?”

    I’m not defending Bats. I’m saying its a little unfair how he gets all of the shit when there are character who do the exact same thing and often at a magnitude higher then Bats himself does.

  71. Warlock Lowk September 26, 2014 at 7:01 pm -      #71

    “BTW, Batman punched Bizarro out in Forever Evil.”

    See that is PIS(Also had a kryptonite ring he had been carrying). And that shit happens. I’m not saying he doesn’t have it, everyone gets it. But why does everyone have a hate boner for Batman though?
    ===
    Also Since I feel bad for the off topicness. A feat.
    Batman has had run-ins with supernatural before and now he carries an Nth Metal Blade around.
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/4108869-batman-eternal-024-(2014)-(digital)-(nahga-empire)-010.jpg
    He uses it to kill a ghost here. So he shouldn’t be too defenseless against undead and stuff like that he could run into in this match.

  72. Ragnorke September 26, 2014 at 7:14 pm -      #72

    @Turtle Commando
    “They have never outright stated that the laws that govern the universe (besides the obligatory magic exists) are different from what we see now. SOOOO, why shouldn’t they be able to build tech?”

    The TESverse is infact quite different, and the laws that govern its universe are extremely different.
    Forexample, the “planet” is rather a flat plane, with the void of Oblivion above it.
    There are no stars or sun in the sky, but rather they are the holes where the Aedra left Mundus.
    Gravity, light, and all that jazz is created by the remnants of the Aedra… So… our science MIGHT not work the same there.

    @Epicazeroth
    “He has the ability of being possibly the smartest person on Earth, and being a master of science and magic, so he knows how to steal power to fight an omnipotent.”

    And batman is the smartest person in DC earth. So what’s the difference?
    Doom builds fucking time machines using nothing but science, and no one calls that hax bullshit PiS… but Batman does something that isn’t anywhere near as “plot-induced” and everyone loses their fucking minds.
    Doom has MORE pis, yet Bats gets more hate. But whatever.

    This big big difference is that (as lowk said), Batman usually BARELY survives his encounters with high-tier characters, despite having prepped for them like no tomorrow.
    it’s almost always because of a well thought out plan, and not because he physically over powers them. (not saying that PiS doesn’t happen, but we’re talking about average/regular showings here)

    Whereas people like Doom & BP literally pull out random bullshit plot devices and do random bullshit hax crap which is far worse than anything batman has EVER done.

  73. Alpha or Omega September 26, 2014 at 7:16 pm -      #73

    You don’t really need the Nth Metal Blade to kill the undead. Though, they do shrug off getting hit by sharp melee weapons and guns a few times.
    /
    The real problem though is sanity. These monsters are capable of draining the sanity of others to the point where if they drain it dry, it starts hurting you and make you see, hear, or feel crazy stuff.

  74. Warlock Lowk September 26, 2014 at 7:41 pm -      #74

    “Help isn’t PIS. He works with superheroes as a part of his job, help is a fucking perk.”
    “No. Intelligence, money, and resources are his power.”

    lol I had it right
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/120679/3525924-batman00_031-editorial+%282%29.jpg
    Skill, money, resources, and friends are actually stated under his power’s summary.
    ===
    “The real problem though is sanity. These monsters are capable of draining the sanity of others to the point where if they drain it dry, it starts hurting you and make you see, hear, or feel crazy stuff.”

    Would being insane already help at all because well… There could be an argument made there for Bruce.
    He’s also gone a few days without food and only source of water was drugged but still managed to keep on fighting.
    There also Bats resisting Graves’ spirits.
    www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/10300/prv13022_pg1.jpg
    www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/10300/prv13022_pg2.jpg
    Would that help?

    EDIT: Just cuz I found it looking for that feat godzilla everybody
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/1/11863/436682-gb26_1_.jpg

  75. Ragnorke September 26, 2014 at 7:59 pm -      #75

    ““The real problem though is sanity. These monsters are capable of draining the sanity of others to the point where if they drain it dry, it starts hurting you and make you see, hear, or feel crazy stuff.””

    There was a magical witch, that was making people see things, putting their minds in limbo.. and making them relive their darkest fears and all that crap.
    Bruce broke out of it due to sheer force of will.

    He also has some feats where he survived like 3 hours using only 10 minutes worth of oxygen, caus he has perfect control over his body or some bullshit like that.

    Batman generally seems immune to the whole “you’ll to insane!” thing.
    Whether it be due to magic, drugs, or any other supernatural power.

  76. Abominatus674 September 26, 2014 at 8:16 pm -      #76

    Don’t know about most of the guys on team 1, but the Lich King seems to need direct contact to raise larger things like dragons, which cannot be ‘reclaimed’ once they have escaped his control.

    Both Mortarion and Khan and supercharged superhumans with ridiculous strength, reflexes and skill. However, they probably wouldn’t hold up long against any of the really heavy hitters unless backed up by supporting magic etc. Primarchs have been known to be taken down by (ridiculous amounts of) regular marines, so they can be killed normally.

    Dresden is relatively low-tier considering what he’s up against. He’s smart and innovative, but just doesn’t have the sheer magical power to compete with the others. He competes with brains, not brawn, although if this somehow turned up as a guerilla war he’d probably be a great asset. But as mentioned earlier, he is canonically a nerd with knowledge of various fictional worlds eg LoTR, Cthulu Mythos which could be very useful when combined with Black Panther’s tactics.

    Gandalf seems to be a bit of an unknown. He has very little directly applicable combat magic, but who knows what he can do to eldritch horrors and the like?

    Archaon would probably be best taking over Skyrim while his allies hold off Team One. Once the worship of Chaos has overtaken Skyrim mass daemon summonings and the like should be possible, granting team 2 a significant numerical advantage (as well as armies of Chaos-boosted nords, orcs and the like). I can’t really see anyone else from either team who’s a skilled leader of men, particularly in the Nord culture which seems similar to that of the North in Warhammer.

    Nagash doesn’t have the limitations of the Lich King, in that he can raise and control countless undead of any kind over a huge radius, and there is no risk of him losing control of them. Hell, I’m pretty sure he can canonically ‘steal’ control of the undead from others, so the Lich King’d probably be at a significant disadvantage.

    Ironclaw wasn’t the one that finished off Archaon. I actually don’t know what he’s done. He’s pretty much just a relatively large-scale orc leader.

  77. Epicazeroth September 26, 2014 at 9:05 pm -      #77

    @Lowk: First of all, I saw your new name. Destiny is freaking amazing.

    “They built him emergency piece of armor just in case they couldn’t.”
    That’s a good point. It’s only been used once so far AFAIK, but it should be able to stand up to just about anyone. Makes more sense than Bats being able to just make an armor that can fight with Supes.

    “See that is PIS(Also had a kryptonite ring he had been carrying).”
    Isn’t Bizarro unaffected by Green Kryptonite? And to be fair, he wasn’t really knocked out, just knocked down. But it clearly affected him.
    ===
    @Ragnorke: “Whereas people like Doom & BP literally pull out random bullshit plot devices”
    BP: He has Vibranium. So, that kinda helps.
    Doom: He has magic. Dr. Strange isn’t nearly as durable without magic, but with? He also has Iron Man(+?) armor, and nobody complains when Stark fights superhumans.

    “So… our science MIGHT not work the same there.”
    Ugh. Hopefully Negative Zero doesn’t find this thread. But, still. The end result of the forces is the same. I’m fairly certain Batman would know how gravity works.

    “He also has some feats where he survived like 3 hours using only 10 minutes worth of oxygen, caus he has perfect control over his body or some bullshit like that.”
    …This is literally the power of a Daedric Prince. What the fuck.
    ===
    @Abominatus: “He has very little directly applicable combat magic”
    Are you trying to claim that control over fire and lightning is not combat-applicable?

  78. Friendlysociopath September 26, 2014 at 9:14 pm -      #78

    Alright, I need to start somewhere I guess… how’s about listing some of the high tier D&D spells:
    -Time Stop
    Funnily enough, I was wrong- according to the text you do not stop everyone else in time, you speed yourself up to the point where nothing moves for about 30 seconds. That’s 5 rounds btw.
    .
    -Etherealness (Spell)
    Takes you and a couple of friends to the Etheral Plane, you become invisible but can still see into the Material Plane. Useful for spies and such.
    .
    -Meteor Swarm
    …What? It summons Meteors. Small ones but they deal a lot of damage from the blast.
    .
    -Power Word Kill
    One word, kills selected target, no saves accepted in-game so take that how you will
    .
    -Foresight
    You become aware of any and all threats to yourself before they happen
    .
    -Wish
    You literally get a wish, with few limits: you can undo a recent event, bring someone back to life, etc.
    .
    -Reverse Gravity
    Let’s you turn their world flip-upside-down
    .
    -Prismatic Wall/Sphere
    Blocks a lot of stuff, magical weapons, nonmagical weapons, poison attacks, any sort of breath attack (fire, ice, lightning etc.) stops mental attacks, stops spells- oh, and sends anything that gets within 100 feet of the wall to another dimension
    .
    -Mass Invisibility
    Yo- would you like to be invisible? Yeah? Would you like your friends to be invisible too? Yeah? Sweet, get everyone within 180 feet of at least one other person, we’ll be invisible together!
    .
    -Mage’s Disjunction
    Literally undoes all magic in the area, magic items lose their powers (including artifacts, that’s a big deal) and your spells when in the area will not go
    .
    -Project Image
    Create an illusion of yourself that can cast the same spells you do, handy little bugger
    .
    -Prismatic Spray
    Hey, remember that sweet wall spell? Let’s make that into a spray of colors and shoot it at the enemy- we’ll burn them, shock them, poison them, turn them to stone, or make them insane, and as always, chance of being sent to another plane
    .
    -Spell-Turning
    Reflects a spell back at the target
    .

    And that’s not even getting into the ludicrous amount of BFR they can get into or the number of allies they can summon who can, in turn, summon more allies
    Edit: For the record, I used my Pathfinder books for the spells, I don’t think they change that much (IF at all) from D&D

  79. Alpha or Omega September 26, 2014 at 9:21 pm -      #79

    “Batman generally seems immune to the whole “you’ll to insane!” thing.
    Whether it be due to magic, drugs, or any other supernatural power.”
    /
    How immune is he?
    The monsters themselves are more than one and I’m pretty sure a group of them would mess him up.
    /
    Edit: Whoops. Batman and Chattur’gha are on the same side. My bad.

  80. Neon Lord September 26, 2014 at 9:47 pm -      #80

    “Ironclaw wasn’t the one that finished off Archaon. I actually don’t know what he’s done. He’s pretty much just a relatively large-scale orc leader.”

    He did beat him by blindsiding him as Archaon was fighting Valten. Has been officially retconned now though.

  81. Ragnorke September 26, 2014 at 9:52 pm -      #81

    @Epicazeroth
    “Doom: He has magic.”

    But he doesn’t use magic to build his machinery, he uses science.
    But when Batman uses science… yea…

    “Ugh. Hopefully Negative Zero doesn’t find this thread. ”

    He got banned several months ago 😛
    Were you taking a break from BankGambling by any chance? i’m surprised you didn’t hear about it.

    ” But, still. The end result of the forces is the same. I’m fairly certain Batman would know how gravity works.”

    The end result of forces is the same, true, but things like solar power, or even atoms & molecules… could be completely different.
    There’s alot more to making high tech gadgets than just forces, i have a feeling Bats might have a few technical difficulties, but nothing he won’t quickly adapt to.

    “Are you trying to claim that control over fire and lightning is not combat-applicable?”

    To what extent though?

    @Friendly
    “Alright, I need to start somewhere I guess… how’s about listing some of the high tier D&D spells:”

    Looks like Rookie removed, or replaced, Demogorgon from the match…
    I don’t know shit about the rest, but i’d assume they still have access to those spells.

  82. Friendlysociopath September 26, 2014 at 10:16 pm -      #82

    “Looks like Rookie removed, or replaced, Demogorgon from the match…”

    No, I think he just specified the Hero of Kvatch was gong to be Daedric Prince status to help even the table- Demogorgon is still here if I read that correctly.

    Wait a sec, Link’s here? Argh, which incarnation are we using? I want that out of the way as soon as possible, it seems like every time Link shows up people spend an entire page debating which version to use before anything gets done.

  83. Turtle Commando September 26, 2014 at 10:45 pm -      #83

    @ Ragnorke

    Yeah….thanks for reminding me. I forgot about the whole of Mundus being the body of Lorkahn and all that. And to think that I considered myself a lore buff.

  84. OberHerr September 26, 2014 at 11:49 pm -      #84

    “But he doesn’t use magic to build his machinery, he uses science.
    But when Batman uses science… yea…”

    I complain about it because his science is almost never a durability or speed improvement, and he is rarely in a situation where he shouldn’t be speedblitzed and pasted in an instant. While Doom is arguably better Ironman, with magic, and I guess better reflexes. His BASIC combat abilities are easily able to handle some of Marvels major heroes. BP, for who he fights, is able to survive due to having a goddamn Vibranium suit.

    I’m not saying Batman isn’t good at using prep stuff, but his basic self is going to be easily pasted by anyone worth a damn that finds him first. BP and Doom have good feats with prep, but they can still hold their own without. Batman literally is all prep, or he gets owned by anything about street-level.

  85. Commander Cross September 27, 2014 at 12:12 am -      #85

    @Ragnaroke at #81

    Let it be known that it will forever haunt us: The First Non-Troll Casualty of the Site is not a title to receive lightly, and next up is either Uzumaki or me given our shoddy odds. -_-
    If I were head-of-this-site, I’d say it’s either Uzumaki and NZ both stay in this site, or they both go*, I say Both Should Have Stayed!
    I’d have a lot of people I’d petition to dispose of from this site, but neither of the two are/were/would be/would have been it, believe me!* 👿

    Anyone speaking ill of the Dead and Slain will be shot personally by Yours Truly, by any means necessary.
    Any Means Necessary I know I’d get away with, legally or not.

    I made the bloody mistake for letting it happen, I’ll willingly pay dearly for it, but I’d want Lady Mystical especially to make me pay for it accordingly if it were up to her.*

    Any further in-depth discussion with anyone outside of Skype will end with The Dresden Files vs Sword Art Online actually happening, So Zip it and Melt Out The Keys.

    ____

    @FriendlySociopath at #82

    Your guess is as Good as Mine, If I’d have to go with an individual incarnation, It’d be either N64 Link, LttP/Oracles/LA Link, ALbW Link, or WW/PH Link* or even Hyrule Warriors Link.
    We could do a Link based on one of the 3 Great LoZ timelines, or even Total Composite Link if anyone on Side B can keep up with TC Link*

    I’m not sure if Rookie ever stated any incarnations sadly speaking, so I just listed out the candidates.

    ____

    @Turtle Commando at #83

    Where do Morrowind’s current forces fit in since I don’t recall if Ordinators are still available at this time, let alone High Ordinators?

    I’m trying to focus on not snapping at a bad time, so we need something related to Oblivion or Skyrim or even Morrowind to talk about, since Nerevar Reborn had to fight some High Ordinators a few times.

    1.) (By They Both Go, I mean The You-Know-What!)
    2.) (Anyone ever heard of Skype or Gaia?
    Try finding me there and if you’re not Uzumaki we might talk more about it if I’m in the mood.)
    3.) (I admit I’d want to call the terms of it, or at least wind up with terms I’d willingly agree with of my own accord.)
    4.) (The last one will always be my favorite.)
    5.) (Aside from Post-Changes Dresden, but a Link based on one of the 3 Timelines would be more fitting anyway.)

  86. Rookie September 27, 2014 at 12:17 am -      #86

    @Friendlysociopath

    “Wait a sec, Link’s here? Argh, which incarnation are we using?”

    The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess version.

  87. Warlock Lowk September 27, 2014 at 12:40 am -      #87

    “I complain about it because his science is almost never a durability or speed improvement”

    His Armor allows him to survive being pushed through a building through every wall along the way. Block armor piercing bullet. And last against an energy blast that can instantly melt people and their bones. And going by futures end if thats canon he gets all MGS4 Old Snake in a muscle suit.
    Bit of feats for the actual match regarding Bats durability endurance.
    ===
    “he is rarely in a situation where he shouldn’t be speedblitzed and pasted in an instant. ”

    Who do you think batman normal enemies are? The man has reflexes to dodges bullets and his normal adversaries aren’t speedsters.
    also a bit of a feat
    And most of the time he’s up against something greater, he fighting alongside people well above him. People who make trying to focus on Bats is a waste of time.
    That like complaining about captain america or black widow not being speedblitz every time the avengers face something out of their league.
    ===
    “BP and Doom have good feats with prep, but they can still hold their own without.”

    Because they like batman have been known to asspull tech that we are just supposed to assume they had because they are who they are. But for some reason only batman is singled out for it.
    ===
    “Batman literally is all prep, or he gets owned by anything about street-level.”

    Which is how it should be. Your not enough to take on something and it’s above your level? Come up with an idea that can help take care of it! That like standards in heroes 101.Spiderman, Tony Stark, Doom, Panther, or The Doctor. They fail, they learn or grow from. And/or they plan ahead just in case. Thats why they are awesome and able to handle things above their level.
    But for some reason there are people where thats okay for everyone but Batman.

  88. Zazax September 27, 2014 at 12:55 am -      #88

    “For the record, I used my Pathfinder books for the spells, I don’t think they change that much (IF at all) from D&D”
    Some of them do, and mostly by being nerfed. The entire Polymorph line (all the way from Alter Self to Shapechange and PAO) in particular is *massively* nerfed in Pathfinder, largely because it’s so ludicrously overpowered in 3.5 to begin with.
    Elminster does have Shapechange as a spell he can explicitly use even without his spellbook, so it might end up making a difference.

    Well, some good D&D spells have been covered, but lets look at a few more, slightly more obscure ones. Hooray!

    Replicate Casting – Duplicates any witnessed spell or spell-like effect. Nothing like stealing an enemy’s magic.

    Feeblemind – Reduces a target’s intelligence and charisma to 1, regardless of what they were before. For reference, 2 intelligence is considered animal-level and sub-sapient. 1’s worse.
    Even worse, it’s permanent and can’t be dispelled as normal; only a very few specific things can get rid of it.

    Polymorph Any Object – Turn anything into (almost) anything else, with the duration being inversely proportional to the severity of the change (ranging from 20 minutes to permanent). Some examples given include turning pebbles into adult humans.

    Gate – Summon pretty much whatever you want. There’s all sorts of cheese with this, including chain-gating (Gating in something that knows Gate itself, and having it call in more things that know Gate, and so on), which can be used for the mundane purpose of just having an arbitrarily large army of extremely powerful Demons/Devils/Archons/Whatevers, or for something more creative like getting infinite free Wishes off of Solars.
    Can also be used for interdimensional travel, but where’s the fun in that?

    Genesis – Create your own personal pocket dimension, or make an existing one bigger. Needs no more explanation

    Astral Projection – Projects a complete copy of yourself, gear, spells, and all, into the Astral Plane while your real body sleeps. If done from a non-Material Plane (such as a pocket dimension you’ve made with Genesis), you can go there as your Astral copy. If said copy dies, you wake up where you cast the spell, completely unharmed.

    Mindrape – Completely rewire someone’s brain as you see fit, including changing personality, memories, values, beliefs, etc. This spell can turn the most noble Paladin into an unrepentant mass murderer, or make someone totally forget (or even outright hate) the spouse/child/whatever he or she cares about more than anything else in the world. And it’s permanent to boot.
    It’s like mind control, but better.

    And so on.

  89. Soulerous September 27, 2014 at 12:58 am -      #89

    I have some feats for Archimonde. First, his battle with a demigod in which his hooves push up hills taller than his demon troops.
    ~
    Their collision was marked by thunder and a tremor that toppled fighters for some distance around. Demons and night elves alike fled the awesome fury of their duel. Where the stag’s hooves struck the harsh ground, sparks flew up into the heavens. Archimonde’s own feet dug deep, creating ravines and tossing up new hills taller than his warriors.
    Bloody scars traced the paths of the demon’s claws in the stag’s hide. Sharp, glistening dots from which burst green fire showed where antlers had pierced Archimonde’s seemingly impervious skin. Demon and demigod wrestled and no other living creature dared come in their path.
    ” -War of the Ancients Archive, page 636.
    ~
    Archimonde slays his soldiers for trying to run from battle:
    ~
    Archimonde brooked no retreat, not now, not ever, save as it suited his strategy. The demons upon whom he turned his wrath melted, their armor and flesh sliding off their bones like soft wax. Their shrieks became gurgling sounds and in seconds all that remained were bubbling puddles with a few fragments floating within.” -War of the Ancients Archive, page 617.
    ~
    Archimonde kills a dragon and soldiers, then clears part of an army with wind:
    ~
    But a second later, the same dragon went careening back beyond the night elves’ lines, her chest a sizzling mass of ruined scale and torn innards. The earth shook as she collided with it and a furtive look by Jarod gave him ample enough evidence to know that she would not fly again.
    And in the wake of the leviathan’s death, a dozen soldiers also flew back, their bodies charred. Demons, too, tumbled, as if whatever attacked did not care who perished so long as nothing stood in its path.
    Huln put a protective arm across Jarod’s chest. “What comes is no Infernal or the work of the Eredar! I believe it seeks—”
    Then a massive wind tossed fighters from both forces aside as if they were nothing. Night sabers were no less immune, Blackforest and his mount thrown with the rest. Huln managed to stand his ground a second longer, but even the stubbornness of a tauren could not hold against the incredible gale. He went flying past, the warrior striking at the wind in frustration as he vanished from sight.
    Yet… Jarod Shadowsong felt nothing, not even a breeze.
    And so he found himself alone when the giant strode out of the dust raised by the wind, the giant with dark skin and intricate tattoos that even the unskilled Jarod could sense radiated sinister magical forces.
    “Yes…” mused the figure, eyeing the night elf up and down. “If I cannot have the druid, I shall amuse myself on what pathetically passes as the hope of this doomed host.”
    Jarod readied his blade, aware that he had no hope against this opponent but finding himself unwilling to surrender to the inevitable. “I await you, Archimonde.”
    The archdemon laughed.
    ” -War of the Ancients Archive, page 661.
    ~
    Archimonde tanks a bolt of lightning at 2:08:25 in this video. At 2:08:54 he destroys multiple buildings with a gesture.
    ~
    This shows his size.
    ~
    I don’t know how he stacks up against everyone, but he should be very effective at laying siege to enemy cities, especially with his sandcastle trick.

  90. Turtle Commando September 27, 2014 at 1:10 am -      #90

    @ Cross

    Morrowind is a natural disaster area at the current moment. Vvardenfell has been almost entirely wiped off the map because of the eruption of red mountain and even the capital of mournhold was buried in the ash. If I remember correctly they had to move the capitol to a city called Black Star. Then there was the Argonian rebellion (WOOT WOOT I play as an Argonian I hated playing morrowind with the slavery of my peoples) so, in addition to that and the invasion from Black Marsh a lot MORE dunmer were killed. Then there was a brief flare up with the Nords, followed by the civil war of the Empire, then the war against the Second Aldmeri Dominion.

    SOOOOOOOO
    No. Morrowind does not fit into the picture at the moment. In fact, it is probably best just to ignore them.

  91. Commander Cross September 27, 2014 at 1:28 am -      #91

    @Turtle Commando at #90

    Thank you for the elaborating.
    The Argonians are fascinating beings, the closest you can legally get to saying ‘A Lizard Did It’ without just being Punny for Puns’ sake since it’s so much Pun.

    A bummer we can’t expect to count on much from Morrowind, though if it’s of any comfort, if Batman’s gonna go solo anybody, him soloing A LOT OF THALMOR would be gloriously entertaining, then again I’d say 5 times as much with Elminster, Gandalf or Post-Changes Dresden with all the Overdue-and-consented Magical Killings they’ll wind up doing on any Thalmor in the crossfire. 😀
    This is Entertainment in itself.

    As for the main meat and bones with Direct Group Fighting, I’m sadly not holding my breath on TP Link doing anything more than maybe lasting 5 minutes against Post-Changes Dresden in 1-vs-1, I’m convinced there be others on Side B TP Link can duke it out against without dying all over the place but whether we like it or not, Post-Changes Dresden’s not one of them.

    Anyone got parts of the list they can recall?
    Post-Shivering Isles Hero of Kvatch isn’t listed either unless TP Link can apply BFR on him before The Hero of Kvatch does likewise or hits him with The Wabbajack, or even Brainwashes him something fierce if dealing with Batman and the others on Side A don’t keep him busy first.

    I need ideas in here in regards on Side A vs Side B 1-vs-1 fights in the meantime, I’m not necessarily gonna take up arms in favor of Sides A or B overall, but I will see to it some of the people on both sides I’m most familiar with are as Properly Represented as possible, agreed?
    All I got to note is Ironclaw or some Warcraft dude.

  92. pimpmage September 27, 2014 at 2:47 am -      #92

    “WOOT WOOT I play as an Argonian I hated playing morrowind with the slavery of my peoples”

    It must suck running around WITHOUT BOOTS argonian scum! I hope your feet freeze off!

  93. Warlock Lowk September 27, 2014 at 4:09 am -      #93

    “It must suck running around WITHOUT BOOTS argonian scum! I hope your feet freeze off!”

    Argonians can survive in skyrim. I don’t think they give a damn about cold feet.
    Oh yeah, and waterbreathing potions are for chumps.

  94. Namer September 27, 2014 at 5:38 am -      #94

    I can’t believe you guys haven’t realised so far the Batman-hate is simply because he’s well known. That’s it. For every person who knows Black Panther or Doctor Doom, a thousand people know Batman. He’s been meme-cised and scrutinised to many degrees far beyond the other two. Their exact feats don’t matter, its a question of reputation.

    There’s way too many character I don’t know for me to participate fully, but at first glance I’m seeing more dead-weight characters on Team 2 than Team 1

  95. Ragnorke September 27, 2014 at 10:29 am -      #95

    @Namer
    “I can’t believe you guys haven’t realised so far the Batman-hate is simply because he’s well known. ”

    As far as BankGambling is concerned, he’s just as well known as Doom & Black Panther.
    I would understand and even expect this hate on other places, but it annoys me that it happens here on BankGambling.

    ” BP and Doom have good feats with prep, but they can still hold their own without. Batman literally is all prep, or he gets owned by anything about street-level.”

    Not really… I mean, he isn’t anywhere near the rest of the JL, but he can still hold his own just as well as Black Panther can without prep.
    His durability & speed is better than he’s given credit for.
    Just because he doesn’t use some bullshit vibranium metal to make his suit, doesn’t automatically make his feats PiS…
    Money & Intelligence can get you a long way. Look at Ironman for example, why aren’t his feats called PiS?

    “and he is rarely in a situation where he shouldn’t be speedblitzed and pasted in an instant.”

    Did you read the infinity arc?
    Fucking CAPTAIN AMERICA was along side the big boys fighting Thanos and his lackies.
    Why didn’t he get vaporised to goo?
    Infact, 99% of Captain America encounters against high tier characters include the exact same PiS.
    So Batman is just the same situation. He “avoids” getting killed, and trys to control the battlefield and gives orders.
    The few times Batman has taken hits from people he shouldn’t have, and the few times he has hurt people he shouldn’t have… are just as PiS as the times Captain America has done them.

    It just seems like everyone here has gotten the whole “batman = useless without PiS and prep” thing to their heads.

  96. Friendlysociopath September 27, 2014 at 10:53 am -      #96

    On the whole though, since Demogorgon is the leader of his plane- I see a LOT of minions getting gated in, the 3 big groups that he can call upon:

    Ixitxachitl
    www.dotd.com/mm/MM00173.htm

    Kraken
    forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Kraken

    And my personal favorite, Aboleth
    forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Aboleth

    Admittedly, his minions appear to be water based so there is that issue. But they do promise nearly uncontested control of the northern bits of Skyrim, the Aboleth can go up the rivers as well, although the Krakens probably wouldn’t fit.

    It just seems like everyone here has gotten the whole “batman = useless without PiS and prep” thing to their heads.

    Personally I’ve got almost no experience with comics. I’ve never heard of most of the people who pop up on this site, but I research and learn. The only comics I’ve ever read are a few online manga and the Runaways by Marvel (Which I would be interested in finding a match for them btw).

  97. Friendlysociopath September 27, 2014 at 11:13 am -      #97

    Oh, I suppose a map of Skyrim would be a good thing to have around here

    majamaki.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/skyrim-map-by-mottis86-lg.jpg

    It appears water forces have access to a good chunk of Eastern Skyrim as well.

  98. Ragnorke September 27, 2014 at 11:25 am -      #98

    Ahahaa, searching “Demogorgon forgotten realms” on google actually brought up this BankGambling page as the 5th or 6th link xD

    Anyways, here’s a bit of his innate powers, not including his magic:
    “Demogorgon can charm enemies or drive enemies insane with his gaze, depending on which head’s eyes are met; if both heads lock their gazes on a single target simultaneously, Demogorgon can hypnotize foes. His whip-like tail has the ability to drain the life energy right out of a living foe. His tentacles cause living creatures to rot away, as if by some sort of rapid leprosy. Because each head is a separate personality that each controls his body, Demogorgon may act twice as often during combat as he should be able to.
    In 4th Edition, the book The Plane Above: Secrets of the Astral Sea and the Monster Manual 2 both state that Demogorgon’s two heads are the result of a great battle. Eons ago, Demogorgon, Orcus, and the demon lord Rimmon united to enter the Astral Sea and invade the divine dominion of Kalandurren, home of the god Amoth. Amoth slew Rimmon and nearly cut Demogorgon in half before Orcus killed him. The wound resulted in Demogorgon having two heads.”

  99. Rookie September 27, 2014 at 11:44 am -      #99

    Here’s a little more info about Demogorgon: forums.spacebattles.com/threads/demogorgon-and-orcus-vs-mehrunes-dagon-and-molag-bal.311602/
    forums.spacebattles.com/threads/orcus-asmodeus-demogorgon-and-grazzt-runs-a-gauntlet.311804/
    Demogorgon still will be stalemated by Hero of Kvatch IMO.
    So it comes to others to win the day.

  100. Ragnorke September 27, 2014 at 11:48 am -      #100

    @Rookie
    umm… according to those links you posted… the Forgotten Realms demon gods are above planet busting levels…

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