Link Vs Vergil

Link Vs Vergil

Suggested by SonOfSparda195357

Here we have a fight between Link (Legend of Zelda) and Vergil (Devil May Cry 3).

Fight to the death three rounds.

First round Infinite devil runes and magic takes place on the top of Temi-ni-gru.

Round two Melee fight all melee weapons that each character has or had is usable takes place where you kill Saddler in Resident Evil 4.

Round three full out fight. Weapons magic and items. Takes place in Rome. Guards will try to stop the fight even if they have to kill. Factions from Assassin’s Creed 2 can be hired to take care of guards or the opponent.

Who wins?

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102 Comments on "Link Vs Vergil"

  1. GMoney October 1, 2014 at 8:39 am -      #1

    im going with Vergil. Composite Link has ever been shown much faster than peak human and Vergil is at least a bullet timer.

  2. Friendlysociopath October 1, 2014 at 8:40 am -      #2

    Sooo. Twilight Princess Link is current incarnation yes?

    DmC 3 Vergil should slaughter Twilight Princess Link.

    Vergil can summon swords to either create a barrier around himself or surround his enemy and attack from all directions- either of these options is a problem for the shield user as it ties up Links’ shield with blocking a separate attack aside from the main strikes from Vergil himself.
    Vergil also is likely faster, I believe he regularly moves fast enough to disappear and he creates shockwaves with some of his sword attacks.
    Edit: Oh right, 3 rounds- let’s try this again.
    Round 1: Vergil
    Round 2: Vergil
    Round 3: Vergil

  3. OriginalA October 1, 2014 at 9:37 am -      #3

    “Sooo. Twilight Princess Link is current incarnation yes?”

    No.
    Either FSA Links, ST Link, or LoZ/AoL Link.

    Or if you go by lastest canon game released, it would be ALBW Link.

    None of it really matters since Vergil is too damn fast for any version of Link to fight.

    Also I find that idea that the factions form AC 2/Brotherhood could do anything against Vergil except die in droves to be rather hilarious.

    Composite Link is the only version of Link that stands a chance here, and that’s only because of layers of bullshit.



    Actually, Scenario 1 gives Link infinite Magic. … So LoZ/AoL Link does win scenario 1 because of infinite Thunder spam. Kinda hard to fight someone when they have a 30 foot super high damage, non-dodgeable damage radius around them that never ends. Or Spell spell. Gotta love that Spell spell.

  4. Envoy October 1, 2014 at 10:18 am -      #4

    “Kinda hard to fight someone when they have a 30 foot super high damage, non-dodgeable damage radius around them that never ends. Or Spell spell. Gotta love that Spell spell.”
    +
    Vergil does have raged attacks of his own, the summoned swords and some other ranged slash thing, if he could out range him Link’s spells may not be a factor.

  5. Rookie October 1, 2014 at 10:38 am -      #5

    I’l side with Vergil for now.

    From 3:40 He stops bullets:

  6. Ragnorke October 1, 2014 at 10:46 am -      #6

    Going with Virgil for speed advantage.

  7. Warlock Lowk October 1, 2014 at 12:24 pm -      #7

    Wow didn’t think it was going to be this Vergil.
    The guy is fast enough to keep up with Dante and can teleport in striking range. As Hax as Link is I don’t think it going to do well against Vergil’s speed and mobility.

  8. Rhododendron October 1, 2014 at 12:29 pm -      #8

    Isn’t link pretty much unkillable so long as he has rupee’s with TP”s magic armour + ocarina of times courage based damage reducer? though unless there’s an item that gives him infinite rupees all i can see him do is use that invulnerability to use his invisibility cloak that makes him intangible iirc.

  9. Warlock Lowk October 1, 2014 at 12:33 pm -      #9

    @Rhodo
    The problem being that if he has time to pull that stuff out and use it.

  10. Rhododendron October 1, 2014 at 12:37 pm -      #10

    @Warlock Lowk
    I’m assuming he’d walk into the fight at-least semi-prepared as they get basic knowledge of each other.
    —–
    Besides as fairy’s are”outside help”, aren’t there like black potions that mysteriously revive link should he perish(i belive in phantom hour glass).
    ——
    *edit*: zeldawiki.org/Potion
    purple potion as quoted “The Purple Potion will also restore eight of Link’s Hearts when he has none left”

  11. Kitten Lord October 1, 2014 at 12:51 pm -      #11

    The whole “rupees invulnerability” and hearts just sounds like either mechanics or a no limits fallacy.

    Unless it can be argued any of Links “protective” abilities have tanked pressures equel to those of a speeding Virgil.

  12. Ragnorke October 1, 2014 at 12:54 pm -      #12

    “I’m assuming he’d walk into the fight at-least semi-prepared as they get basic knowledge of each other.”

    False Assumption.
    Characters do not get ANY time to prepare unless specified.
    They begin with their standard-equipment and nothing else.

  13. Rhododendron October 1, 2014 at 1:04 pm -      #13

    @Ragnorke
    I’m not really calling it prep time, just if he IS composite he’d have all his gear at once (which i doubt even the golden gauntlets could carry). I’m just assuming he’d wear his best armor as the courage damage reducer is just a passive thing.
    —–
    @Kitten Lord
    when it comes to link hax when is it NOT game mechanic based? and its not really a no limits fallacy as the magic armor stops working when links out of money. a no limits fallacy would be links “indestructible” hylian shield. but i’d let it pass as with the omni’s zelda has roaming around.

  14. Ragnorke October 1, 2014 at 1:40 pm -      #14

    The thing is, he would NOT have all his gear at once. Where on earth did you get that idea?

    He only gets STANDARD EQUIPMENT, or the equipment he had available in his most recent showing.

    He by no means gets everything, composite or not.
    Composite means we assume he has all the skills & feats of past incarnations, but not all the equipment too, unless specified.

  15. Ragnorke October 1, 2014 at 1:51 pm -      #15

    Using composite link, you could go as far as to say that he gets all the standard equipment from past incarnations too… But saying he gets ALL equipment ever… There is no rule for that, so no.

  16. The Amazing Dualgunner October 1, 2014 at 1:59 pm -      #16

    “There is no rule for that, so no.”
    No rule, but an unsaid assumption, yes. Usually when people even talk about “Composite Link” they talk about him so he *can* have all his gear, especially on this site where it is acknowledged that his gear is his greatest asset, and having it all at once allows for bullshit strategies so fanboys can pull victories out of Link’s ass he doesn’t all the way deserve.

    I am going to go with Vergil, but something tells me Team Link will come up with some BS for him to win :lol:

  17. Ragnorke October 1, 2014 at 2:06 pm -      #17

    @Dualgunner
    How would that realistically even make sense? from a matches perspective?
    He would just have a pile of junk behind him which he would have to pick things out of… Unless you mean he randomly grows an extra 20 arms that allow him to wield everything at once..
    Seems like an incredibly silly way to debate a match.

  18. Amm0vamp1r3 October 1, 2014 at 2:12 pm -      #18

    Vergil takes it, the speed difference is crazy

    @Ragnorke
    He carries everything in hammerspace and can just “will” things into his hand from the way ive been told

    kind of like he wants a potion, he thinks “potion” and bam a potion is in his hand. But that’s just the way it was described to me

  19. The Amazing Dualgunner October 1, 2014 at 2:13 pm -      #19

    You’re asking the guy who usually debates against Link. I don’t know; it’s just usually the way Composite Link is debated. I guess it has something to do with the fact he seems to have a hammer space (as even a single Link incarnation can end up with a pile of junk behind him), but I can’t say for sure.

    @AmmoV
    I remember Legend of Neil which made fun of that lol

  20. Amm0vamp1r3 October 1, 2014 at 2:21 pm -      #20

    @Dualgunner
    Legend of Neil….I HAVE to see this

  21. Ragnorke October 1, 2014 at 2:24 pm -      #21

    Ok, so he has access to everything in an instant using hyperspace. He’s still limited to one physical body.
    Meaning he can only hand up to 2 things in his hands AT A TIME.
    And getting a potion would mean temporarily removing something else.

    Just seems like everyone ignores that aspect of it when debating link.

  22. Amm0vamp1r3 October 1, 2014 at 2:31 pm -      #22

    @Ragnorke
    That is true he can only hold 2 things, and move so fast with said things. That’s why I vote for vergil. Plus vergil isn’t a boss with a specific, glaring weakness like the rest (not counting ganon)

  23. The Amazing Dualgunner October 1, 2014 at 2:51 pm -      #23

    “Plus vergil isn’t a boss with a specific, glaring weakness like the rest (not counting ganon)”

    Inb4 “there is a glowing spot on the hilt that if hit stuns Vergil long enough to get a combo on him. rince, repeat.”

  24. Friendlysociopath October 1, 2014 at 3:15 pm -      #24

    “Just seems like everyone ignores that aspect of it when debating link.”

    Probably because Link debates narrow down to whether his equipment would be enough.
    If it isn’t then the hands issue is irrelevant, if it is… I don’t really recall many Link matches that got to that point and weren’t stomps.

  25. Rhododendron October 1, 2014 at 3:22 pm -      #25

    @Ragnorke
    “Meaning he can only hand up to 2 things in his hands AT A TIME.”
    —–
    ^the four sword says hi: www.zeldadungeon.net/ZeldaFSA/Index/Four-Swords-Adventures-Artwork.png
    —-
    in all seriousness though as i said before this is IF we were to use composite link(any standard one gets blitzed to hell and back in this match bar PH link with time stops)

  26. Envoy October 1, 2014 at 4:06 pm -      #26

    “Ok, so he has access to everything in an instant using hyperspace. He’s still limited to one physical body.
    Meaning he can only hand up to 2 things in his hands AT A TIME.
    And getting a potion would mean temporarily removing something else.”
    =
    The items that revive Link can activate from his pouch without being used, the Magic Armor from Twilight Princess can be equipped and worn like normal clothing.

  27. Ragnorke October 1, 2014 at 4:08 pm -      #27

    @Envoy
    He wouldn’t start with them active, infact, he wouldn’t even start with the revive items in his pouch.
    He would need to “think” about the item, for it to go from hyperspace to his pouch… correct?
    And by the time he thinks that, Vergil kills him. Over, and over, and over again.

  28. Envoy October 1, 2014 at 6:22 pm -      #28

    “He wouldn’t start with them active, infact, he wouldn’t even start with the revive items in his pouch.”
    +
    What the actual fuck are you saying? He caries everything equip-able there. Is it in Vergil’s fanny pack instead?
    =
    “He would need to “think” about the item, for it to go from hyperspace to his pouch… correct?”
    +
    No.

  29. Ragnorke October 1, 2014 at 6:27 pm -      #29

    @Envoy
    “What the actual fuck are you saying? He caries everything equip-able there. Is it in Vergil’s fanny pack instead?”

    He carries EVERYTHING in his pouch…?
    Everything…?
    That seems logical to you? Does that sound even remotely realistic and/or possible to you?
    The HUNDREDS of items that composite link has access to.. are all CONSTANTLY in his pouch?
    No. Gtfo.

    1. That’s fucking gameplay mechanics. Don’t know what that means? Go fucking look it up.

    2. As was previously discussed here, we assume link has access to all his items which are kept in Hyperspace, and he gets them as he needs them.
    That does NOT mean we ignore PHYSICS. A physical body is a fucking physical body, and there’s only so much it can hold.

    You think Link has everything he owns, on him, at all times?
    No, just stfu. I dare you to find me that in the rules.

  30. Friendlysociopath October 1, 2014 at 6:28 pm -      #30

    “He would need to “think” about the item, for it to go from hyperspace to his pouch… correct?”
    +
    No

    To clarify, think of his pouch like a DnD magic bag of holding. The pouch is the hyperspace.

    I think Rag meant Link has to think about it for him to be able to stick his hand into his pouch to get it though.
    Edit: I stand corrected

  31. Cassie Hack October 1, 2014 at 6:29 pm -      #31

    The bag itself is the hammerspace, basically Link is walking around with a bag of holding in D&D terms.

    —-

    Ninjaed by Ammo

  32. Ragnorke October 1, 2014 at 6:40 pm -      #32

    Wouldn’t a composite Link, with all the items link has ever obtained, have dozens of such items then?
    Which would mean Link can re spawn dozens of times after death?

    Gtfo, that’s bullshit and shouldn’t be used in any debate unless specified.

  33. Ellie Williams October 1, 2014 at 7:15 pm -      #33

    But it’s been used in multiple debates before, Ragnarorke. And he isn’t like other Western RPG characters, who have to worry about stuff like bag space or weight of the item. He’s like any other JRPG character, they have infinite bag space. Anyway round 3 specified an all out fight with all weapons and items. Do the Brain controlled Spaniards have any say in round 2 though?

  34. Ragnorke October 1, 2014 at 7:17 pm -      #34

    “But it’s been used in multiple debates before, Ragnarorke.”

    Link has had the ability to return to life MULTIPLE times in a match? Call me crazy, but i’v never seen that happen.

  35. Ellie Williams October 1, 2014 at 7:43 pm -      #35

    Oh, that. Well, I don’t know about that, ask a Zelda Expert.

  36. Alpha or Omega October 1, 2014 at 8:00 pm -      #36

    @Ragnorke
    “Link has had the ability to return to life MULTIPLE times in a match? Call me crazy, but i’v never seen that happen.”
    /
    Yes, and no.
    In the games, he can do that by using bottled fairies or the Four Swords.
    /
    In BankGambling matches, that’s outside help, so that’s not allowed unless specified.
    /
    @Rhododendron
    We use current incarnation of Link
    LoZ II, Four Swords Adventure, or Spirit Tracks.

  37. Ragnorke October 1, 2014 at 8:10 pm -      #37

    @AoO
    I see, cheers.

  38. OriginalA October 1, 2014 at 11:03 pm -      #38

    “In BankGambling matches, that’s outside help, so that’s not allowed unless specified.”

    That’s actually arguable for FS Link and FSA Link.

    FS Link could respawn provided he has enough money, and because the amount of money he has can directly effect how combat viable he is (by allowing those respawns) and BankGambling rules dictate people come into the match at their max current power he could be carrying a lot of Rupees and therefore a lot of respawns.

    FSA Link had a similar mechanic that, but it consumed Force Fairies per death. Which normally would be considered Outside Help, but Force Fairies are acquired by gaining Force Gems, and he requires quite a few of those in order for him to be at his max power as well.

    It’s a grey area, but those two Links could have multiple respawns available to them. … Like, a lot of respawns. Hundreds potentially (for FS anyways, which is the respawn method that is 100% legit by BankGambling rules).

    Also LttP/Oracles/LA Link has at least two revive-on-death mechanics that are not reliant on Fairies and as such would be 100% legal by BankGambling rules. The Purple Potion from PH has already been mentioned.

    And in response to post Envoy in Post 4:
    “Vergil does have raged attacks of his own, the summoned swords and some other ranged slash thing, if he could out range him Link’s spells may not be a factor.”

    Link’s Thunder spell out ranges Vergil’s Summoned Swords, and the travel speed for Summoned Swords is well within his reaction speed. Only the Dimension Cut would be a threat to him, and even then only if Vergil uses the ability to the extent that is shown in cutscenes rather than gameplay (which, he totally could). The thing though is that Vergil is an arrogant bastard and he prefers to be up close and personal despite having more pragmatic ranged options. If LoZ/AoL Link opens with Spell spell and transforms Vergil that’s game set and match right then and there. And with Thunder there is at least the possibility of him being able to stun lock Vergil long enough to kill him.

  39. Rhododendron October 2, 2014 at 2:55 am -      #39

    You guys forgott links purple potion in PH it will magically revive him if hes dead and NOT a fairy/outside help

  40. Kitten Lord October 2, 2014 at 5:48 am -      #40

    So what, he dies 100 times then? This is hindering poor link than helping him. HIs only chance is the spell spell as mentioned I think, but then whats his character for using said spells? I take it we have nowhere to gather is personality from on that case and we know he never just turns Ganon into a blob, infact we know he usually just plays sword and shield with a lot of enemies, their iconic to him.

    As mentioned before, relying on weakpoints and weakpoints that are easy to take advantage of.

  41. Rhododendron October 2, 2014 at 7:38 am -      #41

    @kitten
    So dying once and losing HELPS link? Okay then *sarcasam*
    —–
    @everyone
    So.which incarnations do we use? So far ive just been pointing out “composite link” hax. But im pretty sure hes not being used.

  42. Kitten Lord October 2, 2014 at 12:54 pm -      #42

    Thats not what I said, its more that the fact hes having to face death hundreds of times rather than just the once is a worse fate.

  43. Rhododendron October 2, 2014 at 2:04 pm -      #43

    @kitten
    Your implying link will die that much without getting a kill…again either way if the objective is to win i don’t think link would give up no mater the respawns(from the CIS ive seen). And if that did occure i think virgil may tire out or assume link is immortal and stop trying.

  44. Warlock Lowk October 2, 2014 at 2:22 pm -      #44

    “And if that did occure i think virgil may tire out or assume link is immortal and stop trying.”

    Well after fighting a guy who got a pretty decent healing factor and falling into hell, he went and tried to take on the devil. Don’t think Verg is going to stop just because Link won’t die. Not if his objective is to kill him.
    ===
    Also on this reviving thing. What of decapitations and limb removal? Would he grow those back after he’s come back? Does a new Link body just spawn leaving a bunch of link corpses around?

  45. The Amazing Dualgunner October 2, 2014 at 2:25 pm -      #45

    @Rhodo:
    Unless Link is able to actually put up a fight, Vergil isn’t going to tire out with simple slashes and thrusts to end his foe multiple times.

    EDIT: Lowk said it much better than I.

  46. Ragnorke October 2, 2014 at 3:01 pm -      #46

    Returning to life based on Rupees is fucking gameplay mechanics. Don’t kid yourself.
    Find me a canon quote that proves Rupees has resseruction abilities.

  47. Rhododendron October 2, 2014 at 3:43 pm -      #47

    @Warlock Lowk
    honestly never seen link get delimbed, but then again were talking about a guy who can tread lava and lift 3+tons without equipment.
    —-
    @Ragnorke
    I’m not really the zelda expert around here, I’d give that to OA or Negativezero. I’m merely pointing out what composite link CAN do.
    —-
    And no I’m not kidding myself, there called link hax for a reason. heck were talking about a series where an “invisibility cloak” makes you intangible.
    —–
    @everyone
    seriously though, which incarnation?

  48. Amm0vamp1r3 October 2, 2014 at 4:11 pm -      #48

    I would guess current incarnation unless SonOfSparda says something different before #50………………..also SonOfSparda, guessing he;s a DmC fan

  49. Rhododendron October 2, 2014 at 4:25 pm -      #49

    @Amm0vamp1r3
    aye, seems like links in a spite match here. poor guy XD
    —–
    next post from someone not named sonofsparda seals the elf heros fate.

  50. OriginalA October 2, 2014 at 11:20 pm -      #50

    “This is hindering poor link than helping him. HIs only chance is the spell spell as mentioned I think, but then whats his character for using said spells? I take it we have nowhere to gather is personality from on that case and we know he never just turns Ganon into a blob, infact we know he usually just plays sword and shield with a lot of enemies, their iconic to him. ”

    The Spell spell was only in AoL, which didn’t have any cutscenes aside from the ending. He uses the Spell spell to advance through the game on at least one occasion to clear a puzzle, but combat application of the spell is left for the player to decide (it consumes a hefty about of MP so spamming it isn’t recommended usually). And he never even tried to use it against Ganon because Ganon had a small case of “actually dead and cremated” at the time.

    Similar polymorphic spells can be tried against Ganon. As a general rule of thumb Ganon is immune to damage from weapons that do not have Evil’s Bane from both a narrative and mechanical stand point. That means that the spells don’t work on him; neither does blowing him up with bombs, or any other spell that isn’t from his own power or of Evil’s Bane. Even Midna’s shadow magic, which probably shattered the entirety of Hyrule Castle, did nothing to him.

    “What of decapitations and limb removal? Would he grow those back after he’s come back? Does a new Link body just spawn leaving a bunch of link corpses around?”

    Probably just spawns a new body as the old one disappears.

    “Returning to life based on Rupees is fucking gameplay mechanics. Don’t kid yourself.
    Find me a canon quote that proves Rupees has resseruction abilities.”

    It’s a sword that rather casually creates new energy and matter just by drawing it. I concede that the rupees are basically there to establish an arbitrary number of lives, but by the same token the sword’s ability to create new clones is shown in MC to be effectively endlessly spamable with the stipulation that it cannot exceed four active users at a time. On the flip side of that sometimes they have shared health or independent health. It really is inconsistent.

    But aside from that, here is an inuniverse acknowledgement of the revive mechanic:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pzLLEz53_c
    @ 12:00 a fairy explains the revive mechanic to Link during gameplay. So it is acknowledged within the narrative by a character. Probably working off of the same bullshit that the TP Magic Armor works off of.

    I don’t really think any of this will change much though.

  51. Friendlysociopath October 3, 2014 at 12:26 am -      #51

    “I don’t really think any of this will change much though.”

    Probably not, in almost every case Vergil is capable of cutting Link’s head off in a blink of an eye. And if Link resurrects he can do it again, and again, and again… pretty sure Vergil will get annoyed as shit but I don’t see Link getting a spell off fast enough to stop him.

  52. OriginalA October 3, 2014 at 2:36 am -      #52

    “I don’t see Link getting a spell off fast enough to stop him.”

    Of the Links that can resurrect, they don’t have spells at all or the spells that they do have cannot be used fast enough.

    Pretty much the reason why LoZ/AoL Link has the best spells is because his are instant use, super large AoE, with either high damage or polymorphic effects. Of all of the other Links, they either don’t have instant use, or don’t have large AoE, or don’t have high damage or polymorphic effects. That’s why LoZ/AoL Link is the best mage of all of the incarnations, and that instant cast/large AoE/dramatic effect trifecta combination is what allows him to have a chance. Everything else is too slow or not impactful enough to matter to Vergil.

  53. Kitten Lord October 3, 2014 at 7:15 am -      #53

    So do you think LoZ/AoL Link with his spells could cast fast enough to stop Vergil?

  54. Ragnorke October 3, 2014 at 9:50 am -      #54

    @Kitten
    Unlikely. Did you watch the video posted for Vergil?

  55. Kitten Lord October 3, 2014 at 10:18 am -      #55

    Ive played through all the DMC games so I know Vergil quite well, I need only see the name of the scene. But him catching bullets and fighting at speeds is one thing, but if Link can literally “instantly” cast a spell, then he may do it before Vergil crosses the distance between them.

    As pointed out previously the guy is also arrogant, I cant imagine him going all out and using all his power immediately as if he was fighting Dante or Mundus himself at the sight of a little elf fellow wearing a green tunic. Afterall theres no bloodlust stipulation for this match.

  56. Friendlysociopath October 3, 2014 at 10:27 am -      #56

    “As pointed out previously the guy is also arrogant, I cant imagine him going all out and using all his power immediately as if he was fighting Dante or Mundus himself at the sight of a little elf fellow wearing a green tunic. Afterall theres no bloodlust stipulation for this match.”

    Link also doesn’t seem to be the type to just throw his spells out at the word ‘go’. Particularly not against a person who doesn’t appear to be an incredible threat. He’s just a dude in a blue coat with a sword.

    “but if Link can literally “instantly” cast a spell, then he may do it before Vergil crosses the distance between them.”

    The only reason Link can theoretically “instantly” cast a spell from what I’ve seen is you select it from a pause menu and then he casts it. He would have to at least think of the spell.

    Also, first scene in DMC 3 with Vergil in it, that ghost demon walks up to him and Vergil cuts it into several pieces at extreme speed. It’s nowhere near him going all-out. The manga also depicts him doing this frequently and without restraint. Link’s a dead man/elf/hyrulian.

  57. Kitten Lord October 3, 2014 at 11:38 am -      #57

    @Friendly

    “Link also doesn’t seem to be the type to just throw his spells out at the word ‘go’”

    No, this is true. He is not exactly a sorcerer at heart is he.

    “He would have to at least think of the spell.”

    If it is the speed of thought and the spell instantly happens without no warm up, cast time or anything of that sort it is still pretty fast though. I would say Link has a chance if its that version of link and he thinks of this spell while Vergil does his uninterested, eyeroll at the boy.

  58. Ragnorke October 3, 2014 at 11:58 am -      #58

    @Kitten Lord
    2 issues with that:
    1. Nobody thinks instantly.
    2. Nothing travels instantly.

  59. Friendlysociopath October 3, 2014 at 12:04 pm -      #59

    “If it is the speed of thought and the spell instantly happens without no warm up, cast time or anything of that sort it is still pretty fast though. I would say Link has a chance if its that version of link and he thinks of this spell while Vergil does his uninterested, eyeroll at the boy.”

    Remember that a majority of Dante’s feats are just him screwing around and generally not giving a shit btw. Also, since we’ve gone past 50- what’s our incarnation? Latest canonical Link? I know there’s 3 timelines, why not just pick the latest once released?

  60. Kitten Lord October 3, 2014 at 2:45 pm -      #60

    @Rag

    1. Ime sure in the whole of fiction theres someone whos close to it but I dont recall that ever being my point. The speed of thought by itself is pretty damn fast.

    2. This is questionable, fiction can have something move instantly or activate instantly, or at least fast enough that it may as well be instant. Thats what I am asking, the speed of the spell and its effect. preferably with a video of it.

    @Friendly

    “Remember that a majority of Dante’s feats are just him screwing around and generally not giving a shit btw.”

    Perhaps, what difference does this make?

    “Also, since we’ve gone past 50- what’s our incarnation?”

    Probably just a doomed link, the hax, composite link would have been more interesting though, but only slightly, Vergil takes more wins by far than any form of Link I imagine.

  61. Friendlysociopath October 3, 2014 at 3:24 pm -      #61

    “Perhaps, what difference does this make?”

    Vergil is Dante’s equal, at least as of DMC 3 except for the end. Therefor, Dante’s limits to that point would also go to Vergil, as a minimum. Dante casually hops onto a missile and flies around on it and dodges gunfire like it’s nothing. Vergil is faster than that given in-game and manga evidence. So his speed is plenty fast enough, even without really trying, to kill Link.

    This sounds right in my head, I don’t know if I’m conveying my theory correctly or not.

  62. OriginalA October 3, 2014 at 3:59 pm -      #62

    “So do you think LoZ/AoL Link with his spells could cast fast enough to stop Vergil?”

    If Vergil decides to get in close (which he usually does) at first then LoZ/AoL Link might be able to catch him off guard and maybe win the first Scenario (because infinite magic).

    “Link also doesn’t seem to be the type to just throw his spells out at the word ‘go’”

    There are at least two boss enemies in AoL that require Link to do exactly that. So, yes, it is entirely within his character to start a battle with a spell. Additionally, just for the more casual players, one of the most basic strategies for any boss battle in AoL always begins with “Step 1: Cast Shield”.

    “I know there’s 3 timelines, why not just pick the latest once released?”

    Because the latest one released is set in the middle of one of those timelines rather than in the “current events” of that timeline. And, prior to ALBW (latest game) the previous latest game was chronologically the very first game in the series, so that clashes heavily with the BankGambling Rules on CI that puts characters at their chronologically oldest incarnation.

    Also it allows for Link to change incarnations mid-match (which happened all the time prior to Hyrule Historia cemented the timeline).

    “Thats what I am asking, the speed of the spell and its effect. preferably with a video of it.”



    The video shows the Thunder spell (as well as several buffs). It’s AoE is the entire screen. The Spell spell has the same range and speed, but has different effects.

    Pretty much Link’s victory for Scenario 1 depends on Vergil choosing not to go max speed and max range right from the start. Given Vergil’s character, who shows off damn nearly just as much as Dante does with a different kind of flare, I’d say that it is probable that he wouldn’t just murder Link as quickly as he can.

    I basically think that the only reason why LoZ/AoL Link can win Scanario 1 is because Vergil will underestimate him, and then Link will magic spam him to death before he can recover. Scenario 2 does not allow Link to have magic, and Scenario 3 only gives him his normal MP pool, which only allows him like 3 casts of his spells that will be useful against Vergil, which isn’t likely to be enough to actually stop him before he kills Link.

    EDIT:”Probably just a doomed link, the hax, composite link would have been more interesting though, but only slightly, Vergil takes more wins by far than any form of Link I imagine.”

    No. Three days of invulnerable, invisiable, large AoE spell spamming Link x4 is not more interesting. That’s boring.

  63. wingedlion October 3, 2014 at 4:37 pm -      #63

    “Given Vergil’s character, who shows off damn nearly just as much as Dante does with a different kind of flare,”

    really? i never really got that from him

  64. Kitten Lord October 3, 2014 at 6:09 pm -      #64

    @OA

    “The video shows the Thunder spell (as well as several buffs). It’s AoE is the entire screen. The Spell spell has the same range and speed, but has different effects.”

    So that range is hardly awesome, taking Link as a mans size which ime not sure is always the case, his height varies nad in some hes a child so in any case its at best around 10 meters range? if that? Thats probably about good enough for the first round but the others maybe not so much.

    “No. Three days of invulnerable, invisiable, large AoE spell spamming Link x4 is not more interesting. That’s boring”

    Ime sure someone would debate those capabilities down until Vergil still wins.

    @Wing

    “really? i never really got that from him”

    ,Me neither but I know what OA means, basically Vergil may not “show off” like a teen on a drama stage like Dante does but Vergil has this sort of cold vigil, he hardly moves or reacts unless he feels he has to or wants to, its not like hes the sort to go nuts. Hes as comparatively calm as Dante is goofy.

  65. OriginalA October 3, 2014 at 7:20 pm -      #65

    “So that range is hardly awesome, taking Link as a mans size which ime not sure is always the case, his height varies nad in some hes a child so in any case its at best around 10 meters range? if that? Thats probably about good enough for the first round but the others maybe not so much. ”

    He’s 16 in that game, so I figure he’s around 5′ 6″ tall or so. That puts his spell range around 22 ft / 6.7m omnidirectional radius. That’s really not that bad at all for an attack that basically cannot miss. Especially since he is primarily a sword fighter with a range of less than one meter. The vast majority of Vergil’s attacks are also well within 2-3 meter as well, which puts him comfortably within Link’s AoE range. And as you say about the other round, Link doesn’t even get magic in Scenario 2, and he won’t have enough MP to spam this stuff in Scenario 3. I’ve mentioned that three times now I think.

    “Ime sure someone would debate those capabilities down until Vergil still wins. ”

    I forgot Time Stop…. because Composite Link has that as well.

    “really? i never really got that from him”

    While Kitten Lord touched on this, I will clarify.

    If Vergil really wanted to just completely obliterate stuff with maximum efficiency, then nothing, absolutely nothing, would ever get within 10 meters of him.

    For instance take how he killed Beowulf:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEkmsMLJ2dc

    and contrast it to what Dante does with Yamato here:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=txzZYhLd5Ys

    The only reason Vergil got close to Beowulf is because he chose to. The only reason why Beowulf was able to talk to Vergil was because he let him. Look at how Beowulf’s head was cut; straight down the middle between the eyes, straight through the neck, and straight through the top of the skull to the base of the jaw parallel to the neck cut; that was overkill. Yet Vergil chose to kill him that way instead of just bisecting him vertically from head to groin with a single slice from where he was standing in the middle of the room.

    Look at how he fights. He sheaths his sword after every combo. He taunts Dante regularly in combat. Despite being able to move so fast that he basically turns invisible (his air trick set of moves is pure speed and not actually teleportation; he just moves so fast you can’t see him) he most commonly fights at a pace that is visible.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=09IpDe7V8ZE

    Look at how he opens that fight. He starts to go for Yamato then decides “nah, I’ll play with my new toy gauntlets”. Look at later when he attacks Lady and she blocks him with her rocket launcher… his sword’s special power is to be able to cut through anything. That attack only stopped because he chose to stop it.

    Vergil’s a show off. He’s just as much of a drama queen as Dante is. He just goes for classically overly dramatic rather than obnoxious noise and movement. … That’s not a bad thing. It plays to his arrogant character very well and does show the parallels between him and Dante. I really like his character because of it.

  66. Rhododendron October 3, 2014 at 8:00 pm -      #66

    Sorry I’ve been off for a bit, just got the new smash. any new arguments for either character?

    @off-topic
    …How the hell did they improve the gerudo valley theme??: www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPsrvtzGI5w

  67. Commander Cross October 3, 2014 at 8:08 pm -      #67

    I might have heard somewhere that LoZ/AoL Link may actually have had either the Completed Triforce or The Triforce of Power as well, from a Comic that takes place after the games.

    If I’m not mis-recalling, I just thought it worth a mention.

  68. wingedlion October 3, 2014 at 8:08 pm -      #68

    @OA
    ok, i guess i see your point.

    “(his air trick set of moves is pure speed and not actually teleportation; he just moves so fast you can’t see him)”

    just wanted to address this though. the description in the game describes those moves as teleportation.

  69. OriginalA October 3, 2014 at 9:10 pm -      #69

    Gah, that Spanish guitar is just too strong!

    @ CC:
    LoZ/AoL Link held the complete Triforce at the end of AoL; he used it to revive the Sleeping Princess Zelda.

    @Wingedlion:
    I could have sworn that the descriptions of those moves explicitly stated that it was pure speed. I retract that claim now though. … That actually hurts Vergil’s argument though, since it lowers his base speed quite significantly. It seems I was thinking of Dante’s Air Trick: “Aim above an enemy’s head and disappear in the blink of an eye with blindingly quick movements.”

  70. Friendlysociopath October 4, 2014 at 12:13 am -      #70

    “I could have sworn that the descriptions of those moves explicitly stated that it was pure speed.”

    Considering Vergil never teleports once in a cutscene and instead demonstrates massive speed- is it possible the developers just mean he moves to the spot instantly vs dashing like Dante does? This makes a difference via gameplay mechanics.

    Because you cannot dash through attacks as you’re still moving through the area, teleporting doesn’t have this problem as your character doesn’t actually travel through the space. Considering Vergil’s massive range and power disadvantage in that game, at least for most of the game, it would make sense for him to be able to make up for it with speed/mobility.

  71. OriginalA October 4, 2014 at 4:08 am -      #71

    Preface: This entire post concerns game mechanics only.

    “Considering Vergil never teleports once in a cutscene and instead demonstrates massive speed- is it possible the developers just mean he moves to the spot instantly vs dashing like Dante does? This makes a difference via gameplay mechanics.”

    The only difference between Vergil’s Air Trick and Dante’s Air Trick (aside from description) is that Vergil’s Air Trick will cause him to appear slightly above the target while Dante’s Air Trick will put him on ground level with the target (… or I have that backwards). Mechanically they are the same move despite one of them being described as teleportation and the other as pure speed. They even look the same.

    “Because you cannot dash through attacks as you’re still moving through the area, ”

    Umm, wut? Dashes, Air Trick, and side rolling all have I-Frames. Literally moving through the attacks by abusing the I-Frames is actually oftentimes a safer option than avoiding them with distance.

    “teleporting doesn’t have this problem as your character doesn’t actually travel through the space.”

    Both Vergil’s and Dante’s Air Trick abilities are, mechanically speaking, both teleports. The game simply doesn’t register their movements in between their starting locations and the ending location for either of them. … As an aside, they gave Vergil the Air Trick moves because in DMC 1, Nelo Angelo (aka Vergil) had a teleport type move. It actually appeared as if he was running away super fast because the aura of Nelo Angelo could be tracked along the “path” of the teleport. If you use the Super Corrupted Vergil costume in DMC3 and use the Air Trick moves you can see the trails there too.

    “Considering Vergil’s massive range and power disadvantage in that game, at least for most of the game, it would make sense for him to be able to make up for it with speed/mobility.”

    Vergil actually has a hugely disproportionate power advantage. His attacks do more power per strike than all but Dante’s most powerful moves. Additionally, Vergil is actually the slower character.

    Vergil on average has more recovery frames per attack if they aren’t cancelled out of (he sure takes his time to sheath that sword of his). And his charge moves (Dimension Cut and Round Trip) root him longer than Dante’s charge moves (Shockwave and … that’s about it really unless you count Beowulf, but that duration is set completely by the player).

    Finally, Dante is just more mobile.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=UurJkiwZEZI
    vs
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=E–KoPXyp5c

    As a side note: I fucking LOVE Brea’s air battles!
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORgSuIIesIE

  72. Kitten Lord October 4, 2014 at 5:44 am -      #72

    How do you know all this about frames and what not OA? lol, I just play the game…..

    Do you try and get DMC fighting in-game down to a strict economical science when playing or something? :P

    And that was pretty epic actually….Brea has skills

    -

  73. OriginalA October 4, 2014 at 10:55 am -      #73

    “Do you try and get DMC fighting in-game down to a strict economical science when playing or something?”

    Yes, because if you want to be able to play on the same skill level of someone like Brea you have to be aware of that kind of stuff. Recovery animations, I-Frames, start up time, the exact time you can cancel a move while still able to have it register as a hit, all that good stuff. It also had to do with me wanting to not die constantly in the game so I learned the underlying mechanics. It’s little things that help you survive. Take Royal Guard for example. If you don’t get the timing done exactly then you will still take damage from attacks. But if you get the timing down perfectly (Just Guard as it was called in DMC3, or Royal Guard in DMC4 terminology) you can be effectively invulnerable. Additionally, while you are in the air the time required get a Just Guard is considerably more lenient than when on the ground.

    For instance, if you launch an enemy as Vergil and then spam his Summoned Swords on the airborne targets, the target will fall at normal speed after the first hit. If you pause in between each individual Summoned Sword strike then each individual Summoned Sword will stun the target again (much like E&I spamming will) and cause him to fall slowly. This small difference in timing can be a set up for some interesting things like getting a Round Trip charged up before the target hits the ground, or a Dimension Cut.

    Knowing these things can really make high action, combo based fighting games like DMC or Bayonetta become considerably more fun in my opinion. It’s just fun to see what ridiculous things you can do. … Like in DMC 4 learning how to attack Blitzs with melee attacks, which hurt you if they have their lightning aura up, and then Royal Blocking the lightning aura! It’s pretty awesome what you can do when you break the game down to its underlying mechanics and then abuse it.

  74. Kitten Lord October 4, 2014 at 11:55 am -      #74

    Hm I see, I dont really have any patience for that sort of thing myself, once ive seen the storyline ime done wth those kinds of games.

  75. Rhododendron October 4, 2014 at 1:27 pm -      #75

    “Yes, because if you want to be able to play on the same skill level of someone like Brea you have to be aware of that kind of stuff. Recovery animations, I-Frames, start up time, the exact time you can cancel a move”
    —–
    ^yeah, i agree with this. if I’m fighting other people in any game and have prep i learn this kind of stuff, from this to damage calculations, accuracy,priority, armors, spawn times and car speeds, depending on the type of game. However I’ve never seen a real point to check frame data for a single player hack n’ slash.

  76. Kitten Lord October 4, 2014 at 3:42 pm -      #76

    The only game ive done anything like that in is Starcraft 2, the only game I have done anything competitive in, usually though I dont have enough patience to get that into it. Ime always moving on to the next game.

  77. Rhododendron October 4, 2014 at 5:11 pm -      #77

    Eh, as head of my old high school game club i take pride in knowing some games inside out.
    —–
    @oa
    so this isn’t composite link and it isn’t a stomp in the guy at mach speeds favor?

  78. Friendlysociopath October 4, 2014 at 5:53 pm -      #78

    @14:48
    @30:50
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiGKlfOvZ9k&src_vid=2MPPLrePwBU&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_401880

    Vergil’s speed is good enough, just Round 1 let’s one incarnation of Link spam spells forever.
    Rounds 2 and 3 are probably still Vergil’s, and only one incarnation of Link has the magic to pull of his round 1 victory- although it appears selecting an incarnation of Link is… complex.

    About my last comment, probably shouldn’t be on the internet after not sleeping for that long- it was meant to be a question about whether Vergil and Dante dash/teleport as I haven’t played the game in forever and was going off cutscenes.

  79. GabrielusPrime October 4, 2014 at 11:05 pm -      #79

    Does Hyrule Warriors count as Canon?

  80. Commander Cross October 4, 2014 at 11:33 pm -      #80

    @GabrielusPrime at #79

    It could be Canon, what happens if it qualifies for sure as 100% Canon?

  81. GabrielusPrime October 4, 2014 at 11:38 pm -      #81

    Then Link gets any feats from that game, I don’t know all of them ’cause I have yet to beat it…

    I was just wondering, anyway, it may or may not matter.

  82. Alpha or Omega October 5, 2014 at 12:41 am -      #82

    Hyrule Warriors is Non-canon.
    It’s an alternate universe.

  83. OriginalA October 5, 2014 at 1:31 am -      #83

    “Does Hyrule Warriors count as Canon?”

    No. It’s an alternate universe kind of deal. It doesn’t actually take place within the established Zelda Timeline.

    EDIT: Derp, ninja’d.

  84. Kitten Lord October 5, 2014 at 4:02 am -      #84

    Whats the highest calc out of interest for vergils attack speed with his sword? Or the hardest thing hes slashed through that can be estimated as an earthly material?

    Also, what sort of sword is Yamato? Some sort of Katana or something? whats the blade tickness on that sharp edge? I want to calc his pressure output.

    Anyway, Kain solos….both of them at their peak without any arms or legs…just sayin.

  85. OriginalA October 5, 2014 at 5:33 am -      #85

    “Whats the highest calc out of interest for vergils attack speed with his sword?”

    Too fast to see.

    “Or the hardest thing hes slashed through that can be estimated as an earthly material? ”

    Space. Seriously. He cut through a dimension in hell in order to interrupt Dante’s fight with Arkham.

    “Also, what sort of sword is Yamato? Some sort of Katana or something?”
    A daikatana… made out of demonic energy and willpower. Also “darkness”; can’t forget it’s made out of darkness.

    “whats the blade tickness on that sharp edge? I want to calc his pressure output.”

    Considering the fact that the area that it does cut is larger than the blade itself; that information is entirely irreverent since the blade obviously isn’t actually applying the cutting force with the metal edge but rather with demonic bullshit magic.

    “Anyway, Kain solos….both of them at their peak without any arms or legs…just sayin.”

    Link, at his peak, has access to an omnipotent and omniscient god-relic. … Good luck.

  86. Kitten Lord October 5, 2014 at 12:01 pm -      #86

    @Orignal

    “Too fast to see”

    Thats hard to calc in a game, ime sure someone could calculate how many frames a human eye can perceive though.

    “ntirely irreverent since the blade obviously isn’t actually applying the cutting force ”

    Depends how hes using it, ive seen him stab Dante with it before, it must have some form of cutting edge.

    “Space”

    Does he never cut an earthly material in the games? Space does not really mean anything to me in terms of pressure anyway, its meaningless.

    ” omnipotent and omniscient god-relic”

    Kain eats those relics for breakfast.

  87. Commander Cross October 5, 2014 at 12:08 pm -      #87

    I’ll probably get a fight for N64 Link at some point, but if I do wind up suggesting one, IT WILL USE ART FROM THE LIKES OF SPAZMUSE AND CREDIT HER ASAP when it gets posted.

    Yes, that’s actually N64 Link himself as drawn by SpazMuse, I recognize N64 Link well enough since I played the N64 Zelda games a long time ago.

  88. Rhododendron October 5, 2014 at 12:50 pm -      #88

    So by instant magic, that mean link can attack first or is in still gauged by links rt?
    ——-
    @OA
    are there any hyrule warriors calcs. Link looks pretty intense

  89. Friendlysociopath October 5, 2014 at 1:19 pm -      #89

    “So by instant magic, that mean link can attack first or is in still gauged by links rt?”

    It doesn’t look instant, it might be shorter than a second before the spell takes effect but compared to ‘instant’ that’s a lot. That’s just my opinion though.
    Edit: that was in regards to Thuner

  90. OriginalA October 5, 2014 at 4:49 pm -      #90

    “It doesn’t look instant, it might be shorter than a second before the spell takes effect ”

    It activates as soon as the button to cast it is pressed. So effectively it is tied to Link’s r’t.

    “are there any hyrule warriors calcs. Link looks pretty intense”

    I don’t think anyone has crunched numbers yet, but generally HW stuff is higher than typical LoZ stuff on the condition that you assume similar characters (such as Darknuts, Aragorok, Stalfos, Stalchilds, ect) have the same base stats as their original counterparts. For instance, in TP, Link needs to grapple Aragorok’s tail and then use the Iron Boots to weigh himself down to pull Aragorok down to the ground. Meanwhile in HW, anyone can just grapple Aragorok’s tail and just yank him down out of the sky. TP Darknuts are minibosses and take quite a beating. HW Darknuts (looks the same as TP Darknuts) are “captains” (functionally they are enemies that you actually have to pay attention to rather than just spam the light attack button to kill endless waves of) if you time your attacks right to take advantage of their weakness you can kill them in as little as two hits. And as a general rule everybody has attacks that are considerably more dangerous than anything their normal counterpart has down. The Hurricane Spin is one of HW-Link’s basic moves that he can chain into almost all of his attacks. One of his moves is an amped up “skyward strike stab” … this will easily cut through 40 minions and knock a boss down into a weakened position where their guard is lowered.

    Sheik, Ruto, Impa, Darunia, Agatha, and Fi had no combat feats prior… they are all amazing now.

    Zelda can now spam Light Arrows.
    Ganondorf is a wrecking ball.
    Ganon was flat out awesome (although I’m not actually sure if he has his best feats here, but he was REALLY COOL).

    Zant and Girahim were actually a bit underwhelming. They actually lost powers, but they are more active and quick to attack here. They just don’t do their super awesome amazing moves like Zant changing the battlefield or Girahim permanently going into his armor mode.

    The HW crew is generally pretty amazing.

    “Kain eats those relics for breakfast.”

    I don’t think you fully understand the implications of those words… or you’re trolling in which case “Dante solos”.

  91. Kitten Lord October 5, 2014 at 5:30 pm -      #91

    @OA


    “or you’re trolling ”

    Pretty much. And Dante is but a boy, he has no chance in this setting.

  92. OriginalA October 5, 2014 at 7:10 pm -      #92

    “Pretty much. And Dante is but a boy, he has no chance in this setting.”

    Old BankGambling meme from a while ago. It doesn’t matter what the match is, the answer is always “Dante solos”.

  93. The Amazing Dualgunner October 6, 2014 at 2:58 am -      #93

    ““Pretty much. And Dante is but a boy, he has no chance in this setting.”

    Old BankGambling meme from a while ago. It doesn’t matter what the match is, the answer is always “Dante solos”.”
    Dante solos.

  94. Warlock Lowk October 6, 2014 at 4:43 am -      #94

    “Old BankGambling meme from a while ago. It doesn’t matter what the match is, the answer is always “Dante solos”.”

    Also known as the Legacy of Inglish.
    ===
    “Dante solos.”

    Vergil is his twin. Ergo, Vergil solos.

  95. Ragnorke October 6, 2014 at 5:04 am -      #95

    Can y’all mention characters in the City – Country busting levels?
    Preferably with fast movement & reaction times?

    Thinking of a match between Naruto characters, Rand, Dr Strange (Marvel Now), and anyone else in their league.

  96. Kitten Lord October 6, 2014 at 5:07 am -      #96

    Isnt Dr-strange like much higher than naruto or Rand? Rand has some good spells but hes not a speed blitzer or anything.

  97. Ragnorke October 6, 2014 at 5:23 am -      #97

    @Kitten Lore
    Rand arguably has lightning fast reaction times and cast times, which along with his hax can keep him alive.
    Marvel Now Dr. Strange is nothing special. Definitely not above country busting.

    Do you have anyone else in mind?
    im looking for more hax based characters rather than speed.

  98. Friendlysociopath October 6, 2014 at 6:52 am -      #98

    “Can y’all mention characters in the City – Country busting levels?
    Preferably with fast movement & reaction times?”

    Could possibly throw a Sengoku Basara character in there, Date Masamune blocks about a thousand individual arrows in a few seconds with his sword- and he doesn’t even seem to be working at it. Not sure about city-busting but his attacks tend to send a couple hundred soldiers flying through the air each time.

    Edit: Whoops, you want hax instead of speed? Assuming he doesn’t get blitzed off the bat, Eragon has plenty of hax. There’s always Ganondorf I guess. Shandril Shessir absorbs all magic that hits her and turns it into Spellfire- which she has used to actually blow up a mountain. It’s also hard to physically stab a character that throws out walls of fire.
    You could use the most hax character of all time… Bugs Bunny.

  99. Ninja Xtreme October 6, 2014 at 6:52 am -      #99

    Bayonetta solos. Anyway, did you guys see the new Death Battle? Here’s the link: www.screwattack.com/shows/originals/death-battle/tigerzord-vs-gundam-epyon-death-battle

  100. Commander Cross October 6, 2014 at 5:25 pm -      #100

    @Friendlysociopath at #98

    Too many bullet-timers I’d name would punch Eragon’s head clean-off and call it tuesday, or go Force the Elven Superiority up his Ass, whichever happens first.

    Rand and even Current!-616 SS Strange in current conditions would just consider Eragon a Tuesday Second if Eragon’s lucky.

    Also, Vergil can solo Eragon in 1-vs-1 depending on starting distances, Murtagh’s another matter though.

    ___

    Bugs Bunny could work, I wanna see how well Bugs would fare. :twisted:

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