Team Magic Vs Team Force

Team Magic Vs Team Force

Brought to you by sadot06

Team Magic:
Argeddion, Darquesse & Lord Vile (Skulduggery Pleasant)
Doctor Doom (Marvel)
Molly Carpenter & Ebenezar McCoy (Dresden Files)
Richard Rahl (Sword of Truth)
Rand al Thor (Wheel of Time)

Vs

Team Force: (Star Wars)
Abeloth
Luke Skywalker
Emperor Palpatine
Darth Nihilus
Marka Ragnos
Starkiller
Darth Bane
Yoda

Fight takes place in Las Vegas at night. It has been deserted. They begin on opposite ends of the strip, 200 meters apart.

Force users are EU and at their peak.
Rahl has Callandor.
Molly is Winter Lady incarnation.
Argeddion’s morals are off.

Which team wins?

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114 Comments on "Team Magic Vs Team Force"

  1. Xornell September 14, 2014 at 7:01 am -      #1

    EU Force users at their peak? Idk, that’s a lot of assrape. Could Nihilus just speak and murder everything on Earth? Seems like that might be a pretty effective strategy.

    Other than that, we have the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived, his nearly equal green counterpart, a dude who played with a mile long ship like it was a toy, a literal force god, a Chosen One with godlike power, and then Bane and Ragnos.

    And then I know less about the magic team.

    The biggest question here is: Does elemental compatibility apply?

  2. Rookie September 14, 2014 at 7:06 am -      #2

    Cool match. I know very little about comics… But I heard that Doom is crazy powerful. I don’t know is someone from team 2 can stop him.
    Maybe Marka or Nihilus (but I am biassed against N, since he is so weak in game as boss)…

    For now I’l side with team 2.

    Can someone bring feats for Abeloth?

  3. sadot06 September 14, 2014 at 7:30 am -      #3

    I’m sure people are least familiar with Skullduggery characters so I’ll give a brief run down.

    Argeddion – Can mimic any form of magic if he see’s it once. Can teleport himself and others. Can move through dimensions and banish people to them. Can give magic to others. Super healing. Flight. Mind control is so potent he was able to do it on multiple wizards while in a magically induced coma locked away in a mountain inside of a magic suppressing machine. Can atomize people. Can see magic.


    Lord Vile – the living embodiment of Skullduggery’s necromancy powers in a symbiate suit of armor. Flight. Super strength. Turns shadows into weapons. Can move through shadows as a form of teleportation. Can create a literal death bubble around himself that kills whoever is near it.


    Darquesse – Psychics foresee her destroying the world. Flight. Can see magic. Can recover from decapitation. Has Mind rape. Super strength. Soul theft. Fireproof. TK precise enough to literally turn your lungs inside out with a glance. Shadow manipulation. Elemental manipulation.

  4. Ragnorke September 14, 2014 at 7:31 am -      #4

    Finally! a match i can debate!

    I really wanna say it’s a stomp for team magic, due to their flexibility & synergy… But then again team force has people like starkiller.

    “The biggest question here is: Does elemental compatibility apply?”

    It shouldn’t. There’s about a dozen different kinds of “magic” in this match up, which all have very different effects & nature.

    ” But I heard that Doom is crazy powerful.”

    He usually depends on prep time to be “crazy powerful”… but under normal circumstances he would still have the abilities of a high tier Sith.
    Infact i think he would counter the Sith quite well. Being able to absorb & manipulate lightning/electricity….

  5. Ragnorke September 14, 2014 at 7:36 am -      #5

    @sadot06
    “Argeddion – Can mimic any form of magic if he see’s it once.”

    This would only apply to other magic which is elementally compatible to his own universes magic.
    Assuming he can use things like balefire & subtractive lightning after seeing it is a fallacy i think.

    “Can create a literal death bubble around himself that kills whoever is near it.”

    Sounds NLFish… i mean, it could be possible, but it would depend on the exact wording.

    I think what it’s really going to come down to, for team magic, is their reaction & cast times… Since there’s no doubt they have MANY ways to instantly kill anyone in team force.

    Darquesse has soul rape
    Doctor Doom has been at universal busting power levels, and has been atleast planet busting during a couple of incarnations… not sure where his current incarnation is though.
    Richard can create subtractive lightning which instakils thousands of people.
    Rand is a lightning timer (debatable), that can create massive aoe balefires in an instant.

  6. Ragnorke September 14, 2014 at 7:43 am -      #6

    Team force literally has no way of blocking anything team 1 throws at them, other then the most basic spells. They would need to rely on their speed & dodge out the way, but that could be pretty difficult considering some of the spells that’ll be used.

    Sorry for the triple post :3

  7. Rookie September 14, 2014 at 7:46 am -      #7

    @Ragnorke

    “He usually depends on prep time to be “crazy powerful”… but under normal circumstances he would still have the abilities of a high tier Sith.
    Infact i think he would counter the Sith quite well. Being able to absorb & manipulate lightning/electricity….”

    If I recall right he survived a hit from IG without any prep, just thanks to his durability and this hit doesn’t even destoyed nor damaged his armor: static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/5/56434/1582778-doomforcefields09ig5.jpg

    “Sorry for the triple post :3”

    Combo breaker)))

  8. Ragnorke September 14, 2014 at 8:01 am -      #8

    “If I recall right he survived a hit from IG without any prep, just thanks to his durability and this hit doesn’t even destoyed nor damaged his armor”

    I believe Thanos “turned off” his IG for those fights. (although he probably kept the power gem active)

  9. sadot06 September 14, 2014 at 8:26 am -      #9

    “This would only apply to other magic which is elementally compatible to his own universes magic.
    Assuming he can use things like balefire & subtractive lightning after seeing it is a fallacy i think.”

    I’m doubting that you’ll find too much difference between the magic of each verse.


    “Sounds NLFish… i mean, it could be possible, but it would depend on the exact wording.”

    It isn’t at all. Darquesse tier or higher in terms of magic could no sell it. Below that however…

  10. Ragnorke September 14, 2014 at 8:34 am -      #10

    “im doubting that you’ll find too much difference between the magic of each verse.”

    War Wizard magic (richard rahl) & channeler magic (rand) require a certain gene. You’re either born with it or not.
    Sure Argeddion can copy other spells, AS LONG as they have a similar nature.

  11. sadot06 September 14, 2014 at 9:16 am -      #11

    Is it a gene specific to the verse? Because magic in the Skullduggery verse works on the same principle. You’re born magic or you’re not. Unless you’re Argeddion and then you can give magic to whoever you want.

  12. Parry Boy September 14, 2014 at 9:22 am -      #12

    m.youtube.com/watch?v=KimFmWFbq0g
    Now that I got your attention, I would unfornately tell you that CV is down for MAINTENANCE. Not that many scans today. Also I vote for team Force.

  13. Malenfant September 14, 2014 at 10:02 am -      #13

    Dr. Doom is both premier scientist and a potent sorcerer. He’s powerful enough magically that Dr. Strange considered him to be a potential candidate for Sorcerer Supreme. You know, the guy who’s supposed to prevent the devil, random sorcerers, or Cthulhu from destroying the universe.
    People like Thanos respect him and are constantly monitoring him.

    s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Doom%20Stats/DoomBlasts04Xmen56.jpg.html
    s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Doom%20Stats/DoomBlasts05Xmen56.jpg.html

    That’s him blasting Sentinels, those things from X-Men that can regularly laugh off rockets. We’ve also seen him blast people like The Magus (basically an evil version of Adam Warlock) and even Molecule Man.

    s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Doom%20Stats/DoomForcefields06SW7.jpg.html

    There’s Doom tanking Galactus himself bitchslapping him of Taa II.

    s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Doom%20Stats/DoomForcefields08IG4.jpg.html
    s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Doom%20Stats/DoomForcefields09IG5.jpg.html

    Here he survives a run in with the literal Infinity Gauntlet. Is there anything Team Force has that could pierce his shields?

    Before you say that they could just mindrape him or something, his willpower is literally so high that it might end up with the other way around.

    s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Doom%20Stats/DoomWill07SpidermanandFF3.jpg.html

    The entirety of Earth’s population is mutated, but he survive through sheer willpower alone.

    i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Stats/DoomWill06507.jpg

    Despite torment in Hell, he doesn’t let any single prayer or beg come out of his mouth, no indication of pain.

    s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Doom%20Stats/DoomPowers01-OvoidMindTransfer10.jpg.html
    s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Doom%20Stats/DoomPowers02-OvoidMindTransfer10.jpg.html

    That’s not all, though. Meet the Ovoid Mind Transfer, one of Doom’s ace in the holes’. No prep time required, all he has to do is get contact, and bang, he’s in their body, with their superpowers. He can even use this power to save his life!

    He’s also been shown to show neat summoning tricks. For instance, he was able to summon Mephisto, one of the Five Lords of Hell (basically a Chaos God, just with less restrictions) to fight over his mothers soul, and was able to summon the ‘greatest power in the universe’:

    i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Stats/DoomSorcery08288.jpg

    He’s also summoned Mindless One’s.:
    s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Doom%20Stats/DoomSorcery24MightyAvengers11.jpg.html

    s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Doom%20Stats/DoomSorcery19ThorAnnual19991.jpg.html

    The above is him casually striping and combining the magic of a sorceress named Cerada. To give you an idea of how powerful she is at magic, she was literally able to turn Mjolnir against Thor, something that’s only possible for Odin and above.

    i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Stats/DoomIntellect0140.jpg

    He considers himself to be as smart as Reed Richards.

    s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Doom%20Inventions/DoomGenius03SW2.jpg.html

    Here he reprograms Ultron.

    i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Stats/DoomIntellect06IronMan250.jpg

    He builds a time machine from scratch. This is like Whoniverse level bullshit intelligence.

    And that’s only half of his feats, completely ignoring his inventions and his times when he did stuff like steal the Power Cosmic or throwdown with the Beyonder.

  14. Parry Boy September 14, 2014 at 10:08 am -      #14

    Aaaamd it’s gone :3

  15. Jake_Uzumaki September 14, 2014 at 10:21 am -      #15

    Molly is a true immortal, Nihillus tries to nom her and she soul fucks him.
    She then proceeds to mind and soul fuck the rest of team Force.
    Her
    Rand
    Rahl
    Ebennezer
    and possibly Skullduggery
    all have a way to solo.
    But her’s will be the most entertaining to watch.

  16. Jake_Uzumaki September 14, 2014 at 10:38 am -      #16

    Doom’s also probably able to solo the more I think. He is the second most powerful Sorcerer in Marvel only a bit beneath Dr. Strange…who has even recently shown he’s capable of destroying planets if he feels like it, destroying Vegas should be a cakewalk. Step one, start spell. Step Two, Molly takes team 1 to her palace in the Winter Kingdom of the Never Never for a few seconds. Step Three, Doom unleashes big boom boom. Step Four, Doom gets to have tequila with the rest of his team in Winter Kingdom.

  17. Private Khaos September 14, 2014 at 10:45 am -      #17

    The only people I know are on team magic and I’m still reading Changes and the Skullduggery books have stopped coming to the US because I can’t find them at any library or bookstore in my area. So my knowledge is limited but I have a feeling that whatever happens Vegas will end up looking how it looks in Fallout New Vegas

  18. Warlock Lowk September 14, 2014 at 11:28 am -      #18

    “And that’s only half of his feats, completely ignoring his inventions and his times when he did stuff like steal the Power Cosmic or throwdown with the Beyonder.”

    Iirc getting the power cosmic involved a few thing he can’t just get with prep and a distracted galactus. So a bot of PIS was involved.

  19. Namer September 14, 2014 at 11:31 am -      #19

    This is pretty skewed for Team Magic. Doom is a Marvel heavy-hitter and definitely quite a bit above anyone on Team Force, depending on the incarnation. Rand and Rahl are pretty powerful for their side too, as are the Dresden duo. Skulduggery trio might not even need to participate, once everyone else’s had their display.
    .
    Doom is pretty much the one who’ll carry and finish this fight in seconds, while everyone else just covers him for a bit.

    Iirc getting the power cosmic involved a few thing he can’t just get with prep and a distracted galactus. So a bot of PIS was involved.
    .
    He doesn’t need the PC to win, tho. His usual incarnations are more than enough, I think.

  20. Commander Cross September 14, 2014 at 12:03 pm -      #20

    @Sadot06

    SADOT, you’ve neglected the Dot Hack(.Hack) universe again with invites, didn’t you?
    I’m pretty sure there be Force-users they can fight without dying all over the place, or at least they can go resurrect people on Side A when needed.
    Keep this up and you may as well suggest Post-Cold Days Molly, Madoka Magica’s Homura Akemi, and Lord Vile against All of The Mortal Instruments, Sword Art Online And Attack on Titan by now, zero shits given if none of the 3 can survive from Time Powers or not.

    At least Madoka Magica*, The Anime AND the Spin-offs are available at the same time.

    @Private Khaos at #17

    It’s Hard to believe I’m agreeing with you on this, the Dot Hack(.Hack) universe and The World of Skulduggery Pleasant being cut off from the U.S is a bloody moronic mistake on the people responsible for that.

    Who thought it was a good idea to leave it at The Faceless Ones again!?

    @Everyone at Comments #1-16

    Well don’t look at me, I’m taking solace that I’m gonna have to enjoy the Emperor gets Overkill’d like a little bitch by a Combo of Post-Cold Days Molly Carpenter, Ebenezar McCoy, Darquesse, Rand w/Callandor and even Lord Vile.

    While we’ve already noted that Lord Vile is a(n even more) Sorcerous version of Hellsing’s Alucard(Pre-Schrodinger) and is McCoy’s Equal, we’re well-aware that Post-Cold Days Molly and McCoy screws with Enemy Vanilla-Tech and we know this is Abeloth’s first fight in here on top of us knowing what Nihilus can do. the only real issue I’d wonder is whether or not Rand with Overcharged Callandor will be able to nail Post-NJO Luke to The Wall and Balefire him before Abeloth gets out of hand.

    Until all those things and more get resolved, I’ll take solace that the following happens to Rahl and The Emperor like the ‘good’ boy that I am, really. :3

    I’m sure The Joker from D.C Comics will be having fun despite not being invited to the party for reasons, so would The Green Goblin of Marvel though his response to the following Joker vid isn’t as good.
    If you’ll excuse me, I gotta find a way to help find Mystical a New Home so she may return.

    1.) (Unlike a few worlds that won’t be named, one of which I listed out and another’s champions have been sent here like where Lord Vile and Darquesse are from.)

  21. Warlock Lowk September 14, 2014 at 12:18 pm -      #21

    Was it Dresden or Molly that was the star wars fan. I mean either way she knows about star wars via Harry.

  22. sadot06 September 14, 2014 at 12:19 pm -      #22

    @Commander Cross

    I’ll happily include .Hack when I know more about them. I only know Kite and from what I know he’d be getting wrecked in this match.


    Also just found out the last Skullduggery book is out! I just ordered it. More Darquesse feats will be coming.

  23. Commander Cross September 14, 2014 at 12:26 pm -      #23

    @Sadot06 at #22

    That depends on What Extra Force-User he’d have to fight against or divert attention from, I’d never claim he’d solo a matter like that.

    I could recall Healers that can do effective Group Resurrection, people who can apply Group Mobility Speed Buffs and people who deal with ‘Basic’ Time Powers like Time-Slowing and stuff, even work out how any nominees could help.
    How many people on Side B have counters to Time Powers to begin with? ;_;
    ____

    As for that bit, I’m not gonna read the spoiler-quotes until further notice, do keep that in mind that I’ll be bypassing and skipping the quotes in the meantime.

    If it affects the odds of Lord Vile vs either McCoy or Pre-Schrodinger Alucard being a reality, even less likely to read the quotes actually.

  24. sadot06 September 14, 2014 at 12:39 pm -      #24

    Give me a run down of the Hack verse sometime. Also perish the thought of Pre-Schrodinger Alucard vs Lord Vile. Alucard stomps. Unless Skullduggery brings out Vile to participate in the hunt for Darquesse and he gets more feats.

  25. jackn8r September 14, 2014 at 12:58 pm -      #25

    Abeloth blows up the city and camps in an active volcano 150km from Las Vegas after awakening it while tormenting everyone telepathically with Joker-esque taunts and waves of pain and anguish.

  26. Warlock Lowk September 14, 2014 at 1:16 pm -      #26

    “tormenting everyone telepathically with Joker-esque taunts and waves of pain and anguish.”

    Probably not the best thing to do with Molly Around. She’s was a natural at mind fuckery and has dragged people more experienced then her into a mind battle to stall them.

  27. Commander Cross September 14, 2014 at 1:17 pm -      #27

    @Sadot at #24

    I’ll do that by e-mail, just next time around if there be any such thing, please do not think about having another Butcher Side vs. Skulduggery Pleasant-related fight without inviting them if I do that, alright!?

    Do I have your word?
    I can let Lord Vile vs McCoy slide but anything else in general I’m less forgiving onward, just give me the e-mail and we can talk there.*

    Like I said, At least The World of Madoka Magica Is Actually Available to watch on Hulu and Netflix, no time like the present to take advantage of it and Watch The Main Anime and read the Manga Spin-offs.*

    I do hope that Lord Vile will join the hunting in that case.

    @Jacknater at #25

    While I don’t believe one of the following will solo her, Lord Vile would like a word with you on that.
    Provided Darquesse don’t do it first, does she have The Scepter of The Ancients on her for that matter?

    Also, Rand has Lews Therin Telemon(Split-Personality of his.) To Draw On if it means anything, no guarantee it’ll be enough to have him slay Abeloth when he’s got his dang hands full fighting Post-NJO Luke, but there it is.

    I’m pretty sure 616 or Ultimate Alliance Doom had to defend against Demon Lord or Archfiend Mind-Rape in the past for what it’s worth.

    Also, I can’t believe I got Ninja’d by Lowk in regards to Post-Cold Days Molly Carpenter also tanking that, how the hell did that happen!?

    1.) (I really don’t think The Dot Hack(.Hack) universe or The World of Skulduggery Pleasant are allowed to say likewise at the moment, Post-G.U era or Post-Faceless Ones really.)
    2.) (I got a lot of good reasons why I’d insist on the Potter-world and Dot Hack being tagged together in a Universe War on the same side as each other.)

  28. Aelfinn September 14, 2014 at 1:21 pm -      #28

    First things first: Rahl gives Rand Callandor. Second thing: Rand destroys Las Vegas and all the Force-users with it.

    Here’s what Rand can do, although I may forget some stuff:
    Deathgates (holes in space-time that cut whatever they open across)
    Balefire (magic beam that erases its target from reality backwards in time)
    Hill-Melting Fire
    Insta-fire
    Lightnings (Rand has made it “literally rain lightning” with Callandor)
    Insta-frost
    Insta-disintegration
    Invisibility
    Explosions that spawn inside of the target
    A shield that can “keep anything out short of balefire”
    Fight off attacks at his soul
    Fight off attacks at his mind
    Make wards that protect his mind
    Re-start his own heart

    If the Force is compatible with the One Power, he can cut Force-users off from it and stop any use of the Force before it happens.

    Also: if Rand has Callandor, he could overload it and go about 1/3 or 1/2 Multiversal, but that probably wouldn’t happen here.
    EDIT
    Some theorize that Rand can stop time.

  29. Ragnorke September 14, 2014 at 1:36 pm -      #29

    @Malenfant
    “Here he survives a run in with the literal Infinity Gauntlet. Is there anything Team Force has that could pierce his shields?”

    I already went over this with Rookie. Thanos had deactivated his IG during those fights, to prove that he is infact superior.

    “He’s also been shown to show neat summoning tricks. For instance, he was able to summon Mephisto, one of the Five Lords of Hell (basically a Chaos God, just with less restrictions) to fight over his mothers soul,”

    You mean the time Strange and Doom literally went INTO hell, to confront mephisto? and got their asses handed to them?
    All of this is outside help anyways.

    ” she was literally able to turn Mjolnir against Thor, something that’s only possible for Odin and above.”

    And Ghost Rider….
    And Sentry…
    And molecule man…
    It’s done pretty frequently. Still a great feat though.

    “And that’s only half of his feats, completely ignoring his inventions and his times when he did stuff like steal the Power Cosmic or throwdown with the Beyonder.”

    All of that required prep. In fact most of his good feats require prep.

    @Jake
    ” He is the second most powerful Sorcerer in Marvel only a bit beneath Dr. Strange…”

    Strange isn’t Marvels most powerful sorcerer. Adam Warlock would take a giant dump on him.
    Dr. Strange is EARTHS sorcerer supreme.

    @Namer
    “Doom is pretty much the one who’ll carry and finish this fight in seconds, while everyone else just covers him for a bit.”

    Rand & even Richard are > Doom without prep.
    Doom would die to Balefire just as easily as anyone else.

    @Aelfinn
    “If the Force is compatible with the One Power,”

    I don’t see why it should be…

  30. GMoney September 14, 2014 at 1:57 pm -      #30

    Can anyone on team 1 prevent Abeloth from possessing/mind raping them? Or prevent the other force users from speed-blitzing them? Can they even kill Abeloth? It isn’t a normal flesh and blood person, more akin to a Chaos God. Also, do any of the sorcerers have higher than average speed feats (besides Doom)? Because if not, any of the Force users will cut them apart before they can get a spell off.

  31. Aelfinn September 14, 2014 at 2:13 pm -      #31

    “I don’t see why it should be…”

    External, metaphysical source of energy that drives the universe? It has been considered compatible in other fights, for what it’s worth. Don’t take that as a necessarily legitimate argument, just something to note.
    =
    “Can anyone on team 1 prevent Abeloth from possessing/mind raping them?”

    Rand’s mind-wards, yeah. There was also talk of another mind-raper on the magic side.
    =
    “Also, do any of the sorcerers have higher than average speed feats (besides Doom)?”

    I’m currently debating with ptaine about it, but Rand has blocked lightning and channeled fast enough to get lava off of himself without getting burned. Richard, in the physical department, is also able to turn around, draw an arrow, and loose it all before arrows in the air reach him.

  32. Commander Cross September 14, 2014 at 2:48 pm -      #32

    I’m pretty sure Doom is more useful than Rahl if anyone wants to go there, and as for GMoney’s Question at #30, Rand and Molly would do the former with hilarious ease, Darquesse has Soul Deletion if Mortal Coil says anything, and Rand, Molly and Darquesse together could accomplish this as would Doctor Doom.

    Can Doctor Doom share powers and whatnot for good measure?

    Also for what it’s worth, Side B ought to count their lucky stars that Side A don’t have Simon the Digger or (Original!-)Tenchi Masaki being guest stars in their favor.
    Rand with Callandor and Doctor Doom unleash Balefire and whatever Illegal or Last Resort Powers they’d got on them at Side B, (Original!-)Tenchi or Simon the Digger(Post-Timeskip) just go to outlast whatever Side B has to offer save Abeloth herself.
    ___

    For that matter, I HOPE Post-Changes Dresden will one day be up there with the two above.

    I got reasons behind the hopeful idea I bolded and italicized, for now that’s good enough to hear for you all, got it?

  33. Ragnorke September 14, 2014 at 3:15 pm -      #33

    “Can anyone on team 1 prevent Abeloth from possessing/mind raping them? ”

    Almost everyone in team 1 has mental resistances.

    “Or prevent the other force users from speed-blitzing them?”

    A few people in team 1 are FAR faster than the force users.

    “Can they even kill Abeloth?”

    Balefire (Rand) erases anything from existence, including non-living things, and can bypass practically any form of defence. Subtractive lightning (Richard) has a similar effect.
    Almost everyone in team 1 is also capable of inter-dimensional BFR (Battlefield removal)

    ” Also, do any of the sorcerers have higher than average speed feats (besides Doom)?”

    All of them.
    In fact i’d argue Doom is one of the slowest.

    “I’m pretty sure Doom is more useful than Rahl if anyone wants to go there”

    Rahls subtractive lightning would instakill Doom in my opinion… But Doom’s pretty intelligent, so who knows.

    The way it stands, Team 2 get wiped in a fraction of a second.
    Team 1 has far too many un-blockable, extremely-fast, large area of effect, instant kill spells.

  34. Jake_Uzumaki September 14, 2014 at 3:21 pm -      #34

    @Aelfinn
    Molly is the mind raper, it was the specialty she was born with in magic, she can do with mind rape what Dresden and Ebenezer do with destruction spells (well the mind rape equivalents anyway) and she also has soul rape, and illusion control, and invisibility..and the ability to make other people and entire rooms invisible.

    She’s also a Star Wars geek…and a Star Trek geek but the Star Wars stuff is relevant here as she could make Vader find himself on Tattoine with his mother and Padme calling him out on everything he’s done…assuming Vader’s life support doesn’t just explode when Ebenezer is within..arguably the distance they are away from each other.
    Luke’s arm will break from the same thing, and all team 2’s lightsabers will at best for them just not work..at worst violently explode when they try and activate them.

    Luke will be on Tattoine being called a failure as a Jedi Master(doubts he himself has had) by Obi-Wan, Yoda, and having Aunt Beru, Uncle Owen and Mara Jade asking him why he couldn’t save them.

    Starkiller will be on the Death Star surrounded by the corpses of his fellow Rebellion Leaders and Juno with the Emperor towering over him laughing mockingly

    etc etc.

    And in mind to mind combat with Abeloth, it’ll be Abeloth vs a crew of Molly’s piloting the Original Series Enterprise in the mind scape.

  35. Praetor Prefect September 14, 2014 at 3:24 pm -      #35

    Daaaamn, should have been here earlier. I’m sure it’s been said, but Nihilus, Abeloth and Palpatine are likely to do quite a bit of heavy hitting here. I also know that WoT has some ridiculous magic to throw around. So the real question is yeah, can team force do anything (via elemental compatibility) to stop being erased from existence by Balefire?

  36. Ragnorke September 14, 2014 at 3:39 pm -      #36

    “. I’m sure it’s been said, but Nihilus, Abeloth and Palpatine are likely to do quite a bit of heavy hitting here.”

    Considering Dr. Doom is like the god of absorbing/manipulating electric energy… Force lightning is most likely going to back fire very hard.

    “can team force do anything (via elemental compatibility) to stop being erased from existence by Balefire?”

    If elemental compatibility is in play, it only further guarantees team 1 victory, since their magical shields will now all be capable of blocking force based attacks.
    So without EC, team 1 stomps. With EC, team 2 roflstomps.

    Maybe i’m underestimating team 2s speed feats, but i doubt they can outrun something like Balefire or Richards lightning.

    Edit: I just realised it says Rahl has callandor… how would that work? o.o
    Does it replace his Sword of Truth…?
    And would it still act as an amp for his War Wizard magic? despite being sufficiently different from a Channelers magic?

  37. Praetor Prefect September 14, 2014 at 3:47 pm -      #37

    I don’t think Nihilus’ “speech of death” would be stopped by shields, it’s less of an attack and more of an aura iirc. Everyone around him slowly (or more quickly in some cases) dies. If they all want to die Palpatine could cause a force storm, wiping out anything in the area. Aside from them though…

  38. Jake_Uzumaki September 14, 2014 at 3:53 pm -      #38

    Molly is a true immortal, she can only be killed at certain points in the space time continuum where the universe is aligned just so and universal balances of power are capable of shifting in major ways.
    No one on Team Force is capable of setting time fuckery in order to get her to a point she can be killed, arguably the only person capable of permanently killing her in the match is Rand with Balefire because it kills back in time and would eventually hit her at a point where she was mortal retroactively stopping her from being made a true immortal at one of said space time continuum points.

    She can be subtle with mind rape too if she wants…make you hear someone say something they didn’t say…see them do something they didn’t really do…change the angle of that one person’s lightsaber so it looks like it’s aimed at Luke and not team magic…all in their heads. She can easily make all of team Force besides Abeloth and Nihilus slaughter each other by making them see what she wants them to see, feel what she wants them to feel, sense what she wants them to sense.

  39. Jake_Uzumaki September 14, 2014 at 3:59 pm -      #39

    What would happen if everyone on team magic touched and channeled their vast magic power into Callandor…I mean Molly has essentially infinite magical juice..Ebenezer has caused Multimegaton explosions..Doom is ridiculously powerful magic wise, and of course there’s Rand and Richard…I say they pull a power rangers combo weapon deal combine all their magic and vaporize team 2 and the two or three states behind team 2.

  40. Praetor Prefect September 14, 2014 at 4:13 pm -      #40

    Ah, but I don’t think Nihilus will be susceptible. He is no longer human, and really not possessing a mind at all. He is only possessed of the base instinct of hunger. And powerful force users have been shown to be resistant to mindfuckery, so how are they suddenly rendered defenseless? Abeloth is extremely powerful, as are Palpy, Ragnos, and Bane. The latter two are more prone to physical attack so that’s why I’ve mostly ignored them.

  41. Ragnorke September 14, 2014 at 4:15 pm -      #41

    “What would happen if everyone on team magic touched and channeled their vast magic power into Callandor”

    I doubt anyone in team 1 would be able to handle it… well… i guess Rand could? since he can become universal busting with the right amps.
    Although it says Rahl gets callandor, not Rand, and i don’t think they’ll have time to pass it around…

    “Ah, but I don’t think Nihilus will be susceptible. He is no longer human, and really not possessing a mind at all.”

    No reason to believe he can tank balefire & subtractive lightning though, both of which move nigh-instantly, and are practically unblockable.

  42. Jake_Uzumaki September 14, 2014 at 4:24 pm -      #42

    @Ragnorke
    I meant all at the same time, just everyone channel a massive blast through it but not sure.
    Molly as I said is a goddess now, she should be able to handle channeling power through it if no one else is. That said I remember reading something about it being used in a circle of three…we’ve got a circle of seven here several of whom can already blow up cities on their own..

    @Praetor
    I said Nihilus would be immune.
    The others won’t be though, while powerful Force users have shown resistance in the past..she’s been able to use her powers on a wide range of targets mystical and otherwise. Even other wizards who have training in mental combat have fallen prey to her. She’s really good at it..she doesn’t plow through your defenses she ninja’s her way in before you even realize she’s there.

  43. Aelfinn September 14, 2014 at 4:34 pm -      #43

    “Although it says Rahl gets callandor, not Rand, and i don’t think they’ll have time to pass it around…”

    @sadot06
    Did you mean that Rand gets Callandor?
    =
    “What would happen if everyone on team magic touched and channeled their vast magic power into Callandor”

    Well, Callandor is just a device that allows someone to draw much more of the One Power into themselves than they could unaided. Most of those devices have a buffer that stops anyone from drawing in too much. Callandor doesn’t. So, in a hypothetical world where everyone on Team 1 COULD somehow use Callandor and draw nigh-infinite energy, it wouldn’t be pretty. Few universes might end and all that.

  44. Malenfant September 14, 2014 at 4:41 pm -      #44

    @Warlock rowk

    “Iirc getting the power cosmic involved a few thing he can’t just get with prep and a distracted galactus. So a bot of PIS was involved.”

    Nothing with Galactus was involved, and I’m unsure off the exact specifications of the device. Here’s the relevant part of the comic:

    i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomPowerCosmic0157.jpg
    i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomPowerCosmic0257.jpg

    @Ragnorke

    “I already went over this with Rookie. Thanos had deactivated his IG during those fights, to prove that he is infact superior.”

    So what do you think happened there? Because it’s pretty damn clear that the IG smited him. Regardless, he’s still tanking a blast from Thanos, the same guy who throws down with Odin and Galactus.

    “You mean the time Strange and Doom literally went INTO hell, to confront mephisto? and got their asses handed to them?
    All of this is outside help anyways.”

    Did you even read the scan I posted?

    “And Ghost Rider….
    And Sentry…
    And molecule man…”

    I’m unfamiliar with Ghost Rider, but the Sentry could solo here. Molecule Man is above Odin.

    “All of that required prep. In fact most of his good feats require prep.”

    To an unknown degree. What’s to say he can’t replicate stuff on a smaller scale. And besides, his ‘good’ feats are merely stuff that’s completely out of the ballpark of basically everyone else here. His lesser/normal feats? Easily able to throw down with these guys.

  45. GMoney September 14, 2014 at 4:45 pm -      #45

    Since it’s been confirmed that both teams have weapons. That will auto-kill the other team I guess it comes down to speed. How fast does Balefire move? Can it be dodged? Additionally, does it work on someone if they aren’t actually hit but the body they are possessing is hit? Could the Balefire be folded by Luke? Also what is the extent of Molly’s illusions are they just phantoms or are they real? And have her illusions worked on anything besides a human? Does she have any defenses against getting mind-raped?

  46. Jake_Uzumaki September 14, 2014 at 4:51 pm -      #46

    @Aelfinn
    Well Dresden Files magic should be at least as elementally compatible as the Force is. So Molly and Ebenezer should work. Though Molly might currently be more similar Saidar than a female Channeler being an immortal magical entity that is part of a three fold goddess and…not even human anymore from what was implied in the last book.

    @GMoney
    Molly’s illusions have worked on Witches and Wizards, fish people, bat monster vampires.
    And as to how real they are, it depends on what she wants to do.

    As to defense against mind rape she’s been trained in how to fight on the mental plane, mental combat with her is essentially fighting anything she can imagine in her mind and she managed to overcome a much stronger more powerful wizard in mind rape before becoming the Winter Lady which is a massive power boost.

  47. Ragnorke September 14, 2014 at 5:00 pm -      #47

    @Malenfant
    “So what do you think happened there? Because it’s pretty damn clear that the IG smited him.”

    I already told you what happened there. Thanos wasn’t using his IG, with the exception of the power gem. He was wearing it, yea, but he wasn’t using its power.
    He wanted to prove that he’s still superior.

    “Regardless, he’s still tanking a blast from Thanos, the same guy who throws down with Odin and Galactus.”

    Putting Thanos in the same league as Odin & Galactus is quite the asspull.
    However, it is still impressive that Doom tanked a couple of hits.

    “Did you even read the scan I posted?”

    …Did YOU read the scans you posted? They didn’t include Mephisto.

    “I’m unfamiliar with Ghost Rider, but the Sentry could solo here. Molecule Man is above Odin.”

    Molecule Man has fluctuated quite a bit. At his peak, he was almost multiversal, and leagues above Odin… but in other showings he’s considerably below.

    “To an unknown DEGREE. What’s to say he can’t replicate stuff on a smaller scale.”

    Because it can’t be proven?

    “his ‘good’ feats are merely stuff that’s completely out of the ballpark of basically everyone else here. His lesser/normal feats? Easily able to throw down with these guys.”

    True.

    @GMoney
    “Since it’s been confirmed that both teams have weapons. That will auto-kill the other team ”

    Lol what?
    What methods does team 2 have to instakill everyone in team 1? None.

    “How fast does Balefire move? Can it be dodged? ”

    something like the length of a football field in a second… Aelfinn would have calcs for it i think.
    It can be dodged using aim-dodging, but team 2 isn’t fast enough to dodge it once it has already been cast.

    “does it work on someone if they aren’t actually hit but the body they are possessing is hit?”

    Still works.

    ” Could the Balefire be folded by Luke?”

    No reason to believe so.

    ” And have her illusions worked on anything besides a human? ”

    Pretty sure, although i don’t know the specifics.

    “Does she have any defenses against getting mind-raped?”

    Everyone in team 1 has a defence against mind rape. The degrees of that defence are debatable.

  48. Jake_Uzumaki September 14, 2014 at 5:03 pm -      #48

    Molly’s first foray into mind rape was to make her friends have a phobia of drugs, this was her trying to help not harm and it still caused psychic damage making one get jittery and a bit off kilter, she had literally no training whatsoever at this point. All she did was force people to feel fear of certain substances. Imagine what she could do now with unlimited energy and now being an expert at how to manipulate minds in a negative way.

    “I nodded, and told Charity about the attacks at the convention, and about how Molly had gotten me involved. “I examined the victims of the first two attacks,” I said quietly. “One of them, a girl named Rosie, showed evidence of a land of psychic trauma. At the time, I attributed it to the phage’s attack on her.”
    Charity frowned. “It wasn’t?”
    I shook my head. “I found an identical trauma on Nelson.” I took a deep breath and said, “Molly is the link between them. They’re both her friends. I think she was the one who hurt them. I think she used magic to invade their minds.”
    Charity stared at me, her expression sickened. “What? No…” She shook her head. “No, Molly wouldn’t…” Her face grew even more pale. “Oh, God. She’s broken one of the Council’s Laws.” She shook her head more violently. “No, no, no. She would not do such a thing.”
    I grimaced and said, “I think I know what she did. And why she did it.”
    “Tell me.”
    I took a deep breath. “Rosie is pregnant. And she showed physical evidence of drug addiction, but none of the psychological evidence of withdrawal. I think Molly took steps when she found out her friend was pregnant-to force her away from the drugs. I think she did it to protect the baby. And then I think she did the same thing to Nelson. But something went wrong. I think what she did to him broke something.” I shook my head. “He got paranoid, erratic.”
    Charity stared down at the altar below, shaking her head. “Is it the Council then, that took her?”
    “No,” I said. “No. What she did to Rosie and Nelson left a kind of mark on her. A stain. I think she forced Rosie and Nelson to feel fear whenever they came near their drugs. Fear is a powerful motivator and it’s easy to exploit. She wanted them to be afraid of the drugs. She had good intentions, but she wanted her friends to be frightened.””
    Proven Guilty, Chap 32

  49. Jake_Uzumaki September 14, 2014 at 5:09 pm -      #49

    Dresden later confronting her about what she did, and saying she doesn’t have just a “modest talent” keep in mind that Dresden doesn’t have just a modest talent for destruction magic and at that point in the series was roughly small to medium building level..possible city block if he wanted in destruction. As a rough gauge of how much power she had to call on before she even got her current levels.

    “”That explains why your spell damaged Nelson so much more severely.”
    “I don’t understand. I never hurt him.”
    “I don’t think you did it on purpose.” I waved a hand, palm up. “Magic comes from a lot of places. But especially from your emotions. They influence almost anything you can do. You were angry at Nelson when you cast the spell. Contaminated the whole thing with your anger.”
    “I did not hurt them,” she said stubbornly. “I saved their lives.”
    “I don’t think you realize the ramifications,” I said.
    She spun to me and shrieked, “I did not hurt them!”
    The air suddenly crackled with tension; vague, unfocused energy centered on the screaming girl. There was enough energy to manage something unfortunate, and it was clear that the kid wasn’t in anything like control of her power. I shook my head and swung my left hand in a half circle, palm faced out, and simply drew in the magical energy her emotions had generated and grounded it into the earth before somebody got hurt.
    A tingle of sensation washed up my arm, surprisingly intense. Her talent was not a modest one.”
    Proven Guilty, Chap 41

    can become totally invisible
    With no warning whatsoever, Murphy moved, spinning in a blur of motion that swept her leg out in a scything, ankle-height arc behind her. There was a thump of impact, and the sound of something heavy hitting the floor. Murphy – her eyes closed – sprang onto something unseen, and her hands moved in a couple of small, quick circles, fingers grasping. Then Murphy grunted, set her arms, and twisted her shoulders a little.
    There was a young woman’s high-pitched gasp of pain, and abruptly, underneath Murphy, there was a girl. Murphy had her pinned on her stomach on the floor, one arm twisted behind her, wrist bent at a painful angle.
    The girl was in her late teens. She wore combat boots, black fatigue pants, and a tight, cutoff grey T-shirt. She was tall, most of a foot taller than Murphy, and built like a brick house. Her hair had been cut into a short, spiky style and dyed peroxide white. A tattoo on her neck vanished under her shirt, reappeared for a bit on her bared stomach, and continued beneath the pants. She had multiple earrings, a nose ring, an eyebrow ring, and a silver stud through that spot right under her lower lip. On the hand Murphy had twisted up behind her back, she wore a bracelet of dark little glass beads.
    “Harry?” Murphy said in that tone of voice that, while polite and patient, demanded an explanation.
    I sighed. “Murph. You remember my apprentice, Molly Carpenter.”
    Murphy leaned to one side and looked at her profile. “Oh, sure,” she said. “I didn’t recognize her without the pink-and-blue hair. Also, she wasn’t invisible last time.” She gave me a look, asking if I should let her up.”
    I gave Murphy a wink, and squatted down on the carpet next to the girl. I gave her my best scowl. “I told you to wait at the apartment and practice your focus.”
    “Oh, come on,” Molly said. “It’s impossible. And boring as hell.”
    “Practice makes perfect, kid.”
    “I’ve been practicing my ass off!” Molly protested. “I know fifty times as much as I did last year.”
    White Knight, Chap 2

    and later is able to improve enough to cover all the senses and even a vampire doesn’t notice her despite supernatural senses.

    “I reached into the trash can by the door, took out an empty motor oil can, and tossed it into the least cluttered corner of the workshop. It bounced off something in midair, and Molly let out a soft yelp, appearing there a moment later, rubbing a hand to her hip.
    “Where’d she come from?” Thomas demanded crossly.
    “What did I miss?” Molly demanded, her tone faintly offended. “I had all the senses covered. Even Thomas didn’t know I was there.”
    “You didn’t miss anything,” I said. “I just know how you think, grasshopper.”
    Small Favor, Chap 15

  50. Jake_Uzumaki September 14, 2014 at 5:16 pm -      #50

    Pulling Corpsetaker(a soul raping wizard soul that was trying to take over Butters) out of Butters and Dresden’s spirit
    ““Lady,” Molly panted, “did you pick the wrong part of my life in which to mess with me.” She took a deep breath and spoke in a ringing, furious voice. “Now get the fuck out of my friend. Ideru!”

    I felt the surge of her will as she spoke the word, and suddenly reality seemed to condense around my apprentice. There was a terrible, terrible force that ripped forth from her, pulling hungrily at everything around it. I’d felt something similar once, when a nascent White Court vampire had unintentionally begun to feed on me—an energy that spiraled and swirled and pulled at the roots of my senses. But that was only one facet of the gravity that Molly exuded with the spell.

    Corpsetaker’s eyes widened in surprise and sudden strain. Then she snarled, “Have it your way. The little doctor was my second choice, in any case.”

    And then I saw Corpsetaker’s dark, mad soul flow into my apprentice on the tidal pull of the beckoning she’d performed.”
    Ghost Story, Chap 48
    ———
    Discussion of Winter Lady immortality when discussing killing the previous Winter Lady and how to.

    ” “Why do you say that?”
    “Because you can’t kill Maeve, Harry.”
    “I don’t want to do it,” I said. “I’m not even sure if I’m going to.”
    “You’re too busy wrestling with your stupid conscience to listen to me, boss,” Bob said. “You can’t kill her. Not might, not shouldn’t. Can’t.”
    I blinked several times. “Uh. Why not?”
    “Maeve’s an immortal, Harry. One of the least of the immortals, maybe, but immortal all the same. Chop her up if you want to. Burn her. Scatter her ashes to the winds. But it won’t kill her. She’ll be back. Maybe in months, maybe years but you can’t just kill her. She’s the Winter Lady.”
    ” I frowned. “Huh? I killed the Summer Lady just fine.”
    Bob made a frustrated sound. “Yeah, but that was because you were in the right place to do it.”
    “How’s that?”
    “Mab and Titania created that place specifically to be a killing ground for Immortals, a place where balances of power are supposed to change. They’ve got to have a location like that for the important fights—otherwise nothing really gets decided. It’s a waste of everyone’s time and cannon fodder.”
    I’d seen the place being created–with my Sight, no less—and it was burned indelibly into my memory. I saw the surging energy the two Queens of Faerie were pouring out, power on a level that defied description. And of course I had, in some sense, been in that place when I murdered Lloyd Slate and took his job as Mab’s triggerman. ”

    skiping stuff about Harry and Mab having sex on the stone table covered in Lloyds blood….
    and skipping some back and forth…Bob revealing he “knows how to take the im out of immortal…

    “Right, then!” Bob said. “The only way to kill an immortal is at certain specific places.”
    “And you know one? Where?”
    “Hah, already you’re making a human assumption. There are more than three dimensions, Harry. Not all places are in space. Some of them are places in time. They’re called conjunctions.”
    “I know about conjunctions, Bob,” I said, annoyed. “When the stars and planets align. You can use them to support heavy-duty magic sometimes.”
    “That’s one way to measure a conjunction,” said the skull. “But stars and Planets are ultimately just measuring stakes used to describe a position in time. And that’s one way to use a conjunction, but they do other things, too.”
    “Give the man a cookie; he’s got the idea. Every year.”
    “When is it?”
    “On Halloween night, of course.” ”
    Cold Days pages 97-99

  51. Malenfant September 14, 2014 at 5:38 pm -      #51

    “I already told you what happened there. Thanos wasn’t using his IG, with the exception of the power gem. He was wearing it, yea, but he wasn’t using its power.
    He wanted to prove that he’s still superior.”

    So was he using the IG there or not? Besides, even an incomplete IG is still really powerful. The Magus was able to reverse a UN blast without the Reality Gem, afterall (using the IG).

    “Putting Thanos in the same league as Odin & Galactus is quite the asspull.
    However, it is still impressive that Doom tanked a couple of hits.”

    He is? He’s -backed- by Death, another Abstract, and he’s thrown down with them before. Read:
    marswillsendnomore.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/comicnut027.jpg

    “…Did YOU read the scans you posted? They didn’t include Mephisto.”

    You just completely changed your response. First you affirmatively say that he never succeeded in beating Mephisto, now you base it off the scans I posted, despite that not being my original point. Anyways, here’s Doom keeping up with Mephisto on his own for a bit:
    -http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomvsMephisto01AstonishingTales8.jpg
    -http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomvsMephisto02.jpg

    i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomvsMephisto03.jpg

    “Molecule Man has fluctuated quite a bit. At his peak, he was almost multiversal, and leagues above Odin… but in other showings he’s considerably below.”

    At what point did he screw with Mjolnir?

    “Because it can’t be proven?”

    It’s an affirmative statement to show how it was super hard to create something like those conductors he used against the SS, or the like.

  52. Jake_Uzumaki September 14, 2014 at 5:43 pm -      #52

    Molly’s specific skill set kind of make it hard to focus on Her, come up with a strategy, and not mistakenly hit what could just be an illusion with realistic visual and audio effects.
    Turn the area into a nightclub/fireworks display complete with ear shattering music and blinding lights, easy
    “There was a flicker of strobing colors of light as Molly pitched a bit of dazzling magic at the creature. It wouldn’t hurt the thing, but the kid could make eye-searing light in every color imaginable burst from empty air, accompanied by a variety of sounds if she so chose. She called it her One-woman Rave spell, and during the last Independence Day, she had used it to throw up a fireworks display from her parents’ backyard so impressive that evidently it had caused traffic problems on the expressway.”
    Changes, Chap 25
    ===
    By the time of ghost story one of her skills becomes using stuff her prowess at illusions to get people to hurt each other.
    ““The first one was paying off a cop. Gold coins. He stood there with a little girl in a gym bag and paid the cop to look the other way.” She swallowed. “God, if I could be like you. Have so much power to pour out. Like water from a hydrant. But I’ve just got a squirt gun. Not even a Super Soaker. Just one of the little ones.” She opened her eyes and met mine. “But it was enough. They didn’t even know I was there.”

    “Molly,” I said gently, “what did you do?”

    “An illusion. A simple one. I made the bag of gold look like a gun. The cop drew his weapon and shot him. But the servitor lived long enough to break the cop’s neck.” She held up a pair of fingers. “Twofer. For one little illusion.”

    I swallowed. I couldn’t speak.

    Her voice slowly gained volume. “There have been others like that. I mean, God, they make it simple. You just need an opportunity and the right little nudge at the right time. Green traffic light instead of a red one. Put a knife in someone’s hand. Or a wedding ring on one finger. Add a spot of blood to someone’s collar. They’re animals. They tear into one another like animals.””
    Ghost Story, Chap 23
    —-
    It actually pretty simple for her to put up a image of up of her. Slap it around Ginny or Hermione or both. Shes made at least 6 False Mollys at once before. She should be able to pull an Aizen, make them attack each other.
    ===
    She could also in a manner, blind them by veiling the entire area around them
    ‘”She blinded me,” Anastasia said calmly. “And then she hit me.” She lifted the towel and wiped at her nose. Some blood came away, though most of it stayed crusted and brown below one nostril. So they hadn’t been in the standoff for long. Anastasia gave Molly a steady gaze and said, “She hit me like a girl. For goodness’ sake, child, have you had no combat training at all?”
    “There’s been a lot of material to cover,” I growled. “Blinded you?”

    “Not permanently,” Molly said, more sullenly now. She rubbed at the knuckles of her right hand with her left. “I just… kind of veiled everything that wasn’t her.”

    “An unnecessarily complicated way to go about it,” Anastasia said primly.

    “For you, maybe,” Molly said defensively.”
    Small Favor, Chap 23
    ==
    Even trying to hit her should you actually find her becomes a chore
    “And then a stone sailed in from nowhere and struck the creature on the snout.

    “Hey!” called Molly’s voice. “Hey, Captain Asphalt! Hey, tar baby! Over here!”

    The creature and I turned to see Molly standing maybe twenty yards away, in plain sight. She flung another rock, and it bounced off the creature’s broad chest. Its heartbeat began to accelerate and grow louder again.

    “Let’s go, gorgeous!” Molly called. “You and me!” She turned sideways to the thing, rolled her hips, and made an exaggerated motion of swatting herself on the ass. “Come get some!”

    The thing tensed and then rushed forward, covering the ground with astonishing speed.

    Molly vanished.

    The creature smashed into the earth where she’d been standing, with its huge talons balled into furious fists, slamming them eight inches into the earth.

    There was a peal of mocking laughter, and another rock bounced off of the thing, this time from the left. Furious, it whirled to rush Molly again – and again, she vanished completely. Once more it struck at empty ground. Once more, Molly got its attention with a rock and a few taunts, only to vanish from sight as it came at her.

    Each time, she was a little closer to the creature, unable to match its raw speed. And each time, she led it a little farther away from the three of us. A couple of times, she even shouted, “Toro, toro!”
    Changes, Chap 25

  53. Warlock Lowk September 14, 2014 at 5:44 pm -      #53

    “Also what is the extent of Molly’s illusions are they just phantoms or are they real?”

    They can be mental or sort of like halograms

  54. Ragnorke September 14, 2014 at 5:59 pm -      #54

    @Malenfant
    “So was he using the IG there or not? Besides, even an incomplete IG is still really powerful.”

    The IG was fully complete, but Thanos simply wasn’t using its power. It was his whole ego thing. Although i think he kept the power gem active.

    “He is? He’s -backed- by Death, another Abstract, and he’s thrown down with them before. Read:”

    I don’t suppose you know which issue this is? i’d imagine it required a shit ton of prep on Thanos’ part… and chances are he still eventually got his ass kicked…
    The most widely accepted showing of Thanos vs Galactus is when Thanos managed to tank a single blast from an enraged galactus, and then begged for mercy.

    “First you affirmatively say that he never succeeded in beating Mephisto, now you base it off the scans I posted, ”

    Oh… that isn’t what i meant.
    You said Dr. Doom is capable of summoning Mephisto, so i told you the only time i remember them meeting was when Doom got shit on.
    Furthermore you didn’t post any scans of it. So i wasn’t really sure what you meant.

    “here’s Doom keeping up with Mephisto on his own for a bit:”

    s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Doom%20Fights/DoomvsMephisto09.jpg.html
    This is what ended up happening after that. Mephisto is for the most part considered to be leagues above both Strange & Doom.

    Still impressive on Dooms part though, considering Mephisto has beaten Galactus in the demon realm.

    “At what point did he screw with Mjolnir?”

    It was before he consumed the beyonder, so he wasn’t quite universal level yet.

    “It’s an affirmative statement to show how it was super hard to create something like those conductors he used against the SS, or the like.”

    It’s not about whether or not it was “super hard”. It’s a matter of whether or not he is proven to have it as a part of his Standard Equipment. Since all characters are limited to standard equipment during matches unless they have prep.
    MAYBE Doom has some OP devices on him at all times, but that needs to be proven before it can be taken into consideration as Strandard Equipment for his character.

  55. Jake_Uzumaki September 14, 2014 at 6:07 pm -      #55

    @Lowk
    do you have Molly’s mental battle with Corpsetaker lying around?

  56. Malenfant September 14, 2014 at 6:36 pm -      #56

    “The IG was fully complete, but Thanos simply wasn’t using its power. It was his whole ego thing. Although i think he kept the power gem active.”

    IIRC Adam Warlock was able to take Dr. Strange (with his autoshields and stuff) with just the Power Gem.

    “I don’t suppose you know which issue this is? i’d imagine it required a shit ton of prep on Thanos’ part… and chances are he still eventually got his ass kicked…”

    From Thanos #3. Here are the preceding images:
    marswillsendnomore.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/comicnut024.jpg?w=370&h=
    -http://marswillsendnomore.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/comicnut025.jpg?w=370&h=

    “s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Doom%20Fights/DoomvsMephisto09.jpg.html
    This is what ended up happening after that. Mephisto is for the most part considered to be leagues above both Strange & Doom.”

    One, for the record, Strange’s arch nemesis is Dormammu, the same guy who the Five Hell lords (Mephisto is one of them) consider to have more power than all five of them combined. Two, not sure why you’re bringing up Dr. Strange. Three, I never said Doom ever succeeded, just that he was able to throw down with him.

    “It’s not about whether or not it was “super hard”. It’s a matter of whether or not he is proven to have it as a part of his Standard Equipment. Since all characters are limited to standard equipment during matches unless they have prep.
    MAYBE Doom has some OP devices on him at all times, but that needs to be proven before it can be taken into consideration as Strandard Equipment for his character.”

    This is Las Vegas, there is plenty of neat equipment around. Doom was able to create a time machine from scratch, using spare parts of various things. He can probably cook something up.

  57. Jake_Uzumaki September 14, 2014 at 6:46 pm -      #57

    building a time machine or anything would be too time consuming with the battle happening. Not to mention Ebenezer’s presence would likely cause any super tech Doom makes to not work properly. Doom’s best bet is to just use what he has on him and his magic.

  58. Ragnorke September 14, 2014 at 6:50 pm -      #58

    “IIRC Adam Warlock was able to take Dr. Strange (with his autoshields and stuff) with just the Power Gem.”

    Standard Warlock > Standard Strange anyways though. Specially in current incarnation… they aren’t even in the same ballpark.

    “From Thanos #3. Here are the preceding images:”

    I just did a very quick read, and apparently Thanos made a gadget/device to enter Galactus’ head…
    Galactus roflstomps casual galaxy busters, whereas Thanos often struggles against planet busters.
    It’s just Thanos’ intelligence that gives him a chance. Not in the same league as far as power output goes.

    “One, for the record, Strange’s arch nemesis is Dormammu”

    Strange has stated multiple times that Dormammu is far too powerful for him to beat, even with prep.
    He usually has to trick him into backing off, or sometimes gets help from the likes of Eternity.

    “not sure why you’re bringing up Dr. Strange. ”

    Because Strange played a huge part in Dooms fight against Mephisto… which is kind of what we were discussing…

    ” Doom was able to create a time machine from scratch, using spare parts of various things. He can probably cook something up.”

    I didn’t say he can’t cook something up (although it probably wouldn’t be wise in the middle of a fight anyways). I said you can’t assume he can use prep time feats in a match that doesn’t involve prep time.
    Whether we know the degree of prep time that was needed or not is irrelevant. What matters is whether or not it falls under standard equipment.

  59. Jake_Uzumaki September 14, 2014 at 7:16 pm -      #59

    Just reread part of Skin Game after reading a word of god from the Author. Seems Molly is 1/3 of Hecate(One Sixth? My brain hurts now..there are six Faerie queens but Jim’s comment points to the section with someone asking if the two statues of the six queens in the three fold goddess format are Hecate…but…six..not..three…my brain hurts really badly..)
    Anyway here’s the question and answer from Jim
    “Are Mother Summer and Mother Winter two of three Fates? If so what is the third?
    No, they’re… read Skin Game.” from www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,41204.0.html

    And well the important part being as short as I can.
    “The Light came primarily from the outstretched hands of two twenty-foot-tall golden statues in the center of the room. I found myself walking to one side, enough to see the details of each statue. Both consisted of the shapes of three women, standing back to back, in a triangle, their arms thrust outward and up, palms lifted to the cieling. One of the women was an ancient crone. The next was a woman in the full bloom of her strength and maturity. The third was that of a young woman, recently matured out of childhood. The flames of one statue burned golden-green. The other statue’s flames were an icy green-blue.
    And just looking at that, my heart started beating faster all over again.
    Because I’d met every single one of them. I recognized their faces.
    “is that Hecate?” Ascher murmured, staring up at the statues in awe. “The triple goddess of the crossroads, right?”
    I swallowed. “Uh. It…Yes, it might be.”
    And it might also be Grannies Summer and Winter, Mab, Titania, Sarissa, and Molly Carpenter. But I didn’t say anything about that.”
    Skin Game pg 328

  60. Numinous One September 14, 2014 at 7:56 pm -      #60

    Alrighty, try again. Didn’t go through the first time apparently.
    This is a bit off topic but if anyone is good at math and can give this a shot, cheers.

    If something is travelling a few meters above the ground, how fast would it need to be going to shatter the stone underneath it and throw some roughly head-sized chunks into the air, just from the force of its passing?
    If it’s possible to work out.

  61. Commander Cross September 14, 2014 at 8:02 pm -      #61

    If someone gets migraines by what ‘The Great Butcher’ said on Hecate/Hekate, fear not, I feel the exact same kind of way after watching the third Tenchi Muyo OVA’s worth of episodes. 😀

    Hurrah, I am not alone anymore, oh wait I might still be alone, I won’t press my odds.

    ____

    Anywho, for what it’s worth, can Standard Adam Warlock Delete a Universe these days if he wanted to?

    Also, did Side A manage to gather even more counters against Side B?

  62. Malenfant September 14, 2014 at 8:25 pm -      #62

    “Standard Warlock > Standard Strange anyways though. Specially in current incarnation… they aren’t even in the same ballpark.”

    Just using the IG.

    “I just did a very quick read, and apparently Thanos made a gadget/device to enter Galactus’ head…”

    So? What difference does it make? That still puts them in the same ballpark.

    “Galactus roflstomps casual galaxy busters, whereas Thanos often struggles against planet busters.”

    Umm, what? When has Thanos struggled with planet busters, 616 Thanos, at least.

    “Strange has stated multiple times that Dormammu is far too powerful for him to beat, even with prep.”

    You know what, show how Strange is remotely relevant here in a versus that involves Doctor Doom.

    “Because Strange played a huge part in Dooms fight against Mephisto… which is kind of what we were discussing…”

    Seriously? I posted several scans that clearly showed Doom and Mephisto duke-ing it out alone, no involvement by Strange at all.

    “I didn’t say he can’t cook something up (although it probably wouldn’t be wise in the middle of a fight anyways). I said you can’t assume he can use prep time feats in a match that doesn’t involve prep time.”

    Why can’t I? He doesn’t have to be fighting 24/7, and this is Las Vegas. It’s a big place.

    “Whether we know the degree of prep time that was needed or not is irrelevant. What matters is whether or not it falls under standard equipment.”

    I’m still waiting to see how the Force users can deal with the Ovoid Mind Transfer, nevermind the real stuff Doom has pulled out.

  63. Jake_Uzumaki September 14, 2014 at 8:32 pm -      #63

    They start off facing each other in the middle of the Vegas Strip..why would Doom stop in the middle of a fight to the death..go into a nearby casino..and work on a machine that could take hours to properly put together with the available materials

  64. Jake_Uzumaki September 14, 2014 at 8:34 pm -      #64

    Okay…apparently the exact street name is a taboo word here…so in the interest of ending the discussion.
    why would Doom stop in the middle of a fight to the death..go into a nearby casino..and work on a machine that could take hours to properly put together with the available materials

  65. Jake_Uzumaki September 14, 2014 at 8:36 pm -      #65

    okay so it’s not the street…let’s try this one more time.
    why would Doom stop in the middle of a fight to the death..go into a nearby building in which you wager money on various games in order to try and make a profit..and work on a machine that could take hours to properly put together with the available materials

  66. Jake_Uzumaki September 14, 2014 at 8:37 pm -      #66

    Cool the edit feature lets you delete in moderation comments so you can repost without the words that are band such as “ca”si”no”

  67. Jake_Uzumaki September 14, 2014 at 9:58 pm -      #67

    or…it doesn’t weird. it said they were deleted

  68. Commander Cross September 14, 2014 at 10:10 pm -      #68

    Can we just focus back on the fighting at hand to see if Side A can dispose of Abeloth and Nihilus in time before Side B finds some creative way to rid themselves of Molly, Darquesse, Rand and Doom?

    Also if I had to take a nod to the True ‘Devil’s Advocates’ of this match, is Abeloth’s Dagger, The Mortis Dagger brought up at all?

  69. wingedlion September 14, 2014 at 10:51 pm -      #69

    “Strange has stated multiple times that Dormammu is far too powerful for him to beat, even with prep.
    He usually has to trick him into backing off, or sometimes gets help from the likes of Eternity.”

    i’m pretty sure those were when he was in the dark dimension. as i said to you before strange has defeated dormammu consistently. it doesn’t really make any sense for him to lose to mephisto. though i can’t say the same for doom.

    in any case though it doesn’t really matter, since there is no need to focus on that feat. doom should have plenty of other feats that should be enough for this fight.

  70. Friendlysociopath September 14, 2014 at 11:24 pm -      #70

    “If something is travelling a few meters above the ground, how fast would it need to be going to shatter the stone underneath it and throw some roughly head-sized chunks into the air, just from the force of its passing?
    If it’s possible to work out.”

    It’s not impossible, I’ll give it a whirl, might be wrong though- I’m not great with math. If nothing else I think I can give a decent hint.

    Let’s go with granite rock, for the sake of it being everywhere.
    Granite has a compressive strength of over 200 MPa, 2 million Pascals, or about 29,000 PSI. Meaning anything less than that shouldn’t do anything to it.
    The strongest sonic boom ever recorded was 7,000 Pa (144 psf). The boom was produced by an F-4 flying just above the speed of sound at an altitude of 100 feet (30 m).
    The size of the person matters and such, but on the whole they have to be moving at speeds in excess of “fast” to break stone just by flying over it. I think your person is ungodly fast when they fly, that’s better than High Hypersonic. (Mach 10-25)

  71. Numinous One September 15, 2014 at 12:27 am -      #71

    “The size of the person matters and such, but on the whole they have to be moving at speeds in excess of “fast” to break stone just by flying over it. I think your person is ungodly fast when they fly, that’s better than High Hypersonic. (Mach 10-25)”

    Spoilers, sort of.
    Well it’s more of a dragon than a person, Acnologia from Fairy Tail, latest chapter.
    Still, some solid speed there, and it was popping off its breath attacks on the fly. Fairy Tail finally got a slight boost. Should get feats for Igneel next chapter as well since he intercepted Acnologia.
    If Rave showed me anything, it’s that Mashima can do his high tiers well.
    Don’t let me down now Mashy.

  72. Commander Cross September 15, 2014 at 1:45 am -      #72

    @Numinous One at #71

    Sadly speaking, as tolerable-in-personality Fairy Tail’s residents are, none of them are in this fight any more than any of the Dot Hack(.Hack) residents are in it, either. ;_;

    You have noble reasons for asking about your question, but in the meantime, can we try to dwell on the fighters in there unless we’re struggling to stay awake?

    Personally I know I won’t doze out on this particular fight, but that question’s a general statement more than anything.

  73. Numinous One September 15, 2014 at 2:24 am -      #73

    Yeah my bad, this thread had the most recent activity when I thought of the question.

    So, counters to Palp’s force storm and Luke speedblitzing and teleporting all their equipment?

    Doom can handle lightning easy enough, but does he have anything to prevent his insides being wrecked as easily as Starkiller does Tie-Fighters?
    Starkiller is relatively low tier compared to most of the force users on this list.

    Does Team 1 even have speed feats? Molly and Doom might well be the only ones to survive a blitz at the start.

  74. Commander Cross September 15, 2014 at 2:39 am -      #74

    @Numinous One at #73

    As I said before, Post-NJO Luke’s being kept bloody busy by Callandor-Amped Rand al’Thor so if he tries to solo and he don’t have Abeloth’s Dagger on him, he ain’t doing Jack$hit unless he bypasses Rand somehow.

    That makes things interesting, either Starkiller or Nihilus will have to fight Darquesse in that case. 😈

    MADNESS!?
    THIS.IS.MAGIC!!!!!

    *Watches someone on Side B gets Blasted to The Black Hole of Soul Deletion, The Pit of Death on Mega-Crack*

  75. Ragnorke September 15, 2014 at 5:09 am -      #75

    “Just using the IG”

    Current Adam Warlock absorbed the explosion from a universe busting bomb.
    Current Dr. Strange needed demonic amps to just reach planet busting level.
    Not in the same ballpark.

    “So? What difference does it make? That still puts them in the same ballpark”

    Thanos simply doesn’t have the feats to put him on the same scale of galactus.
    Sure he mentally overpowered him once, but he’s gotten beat (and by beat I mean Rofl stomped) many times.
    Thanos is NOT anywhere near galaxy busting. Galactus very easily is.

    “Umm, what? When has Thanos struggled with planet busters, 616 Thanos, at least”

    Thanos has lost to the Thing & Thor.
    Thanos has lost to a slightly amped Thor.
    He’s lost plenty of times to planet busters. Although he is generally one of the highest tier planet busters.

    “You know what, show how Strange is remotely relevant here in a versus that involves Doctor Doom.”

    It is relevant, because Doom AND Strange together were struggling to best Mephisto.
    And anyways, if you don’t want to discuss it,don’t discuss it. Debates go off topic all the time.

    “Seriously? I posted several scans that clearly showed Doom and Mephisto duke-ing it out alone”

    And I stated that Doom was losing big time… so what’s the problem?
    you posted a scan and I commented on it. Welcome to BankGambling.

    “Why can’t I? He doesn’t have to be fighting 24/7, and this is Las Vegas. It’s a big place”

    It might have taken him several weeks to make some of the things he made, and it might have taken extremely rare materials and nuclear reactors and stuff.
    Point being, burden of proof is on you to PROVE he can make something useful with the EXACT time and resources that he will have.
    You can assume whatever you like, but your assumptions hold no value in a debate without proof.

  76. Ragnorke September 15, 2014 at 5:15 am -      #76

    “Just using the IG”

    Current Adam Warlock absorbed the explosion from a universe busting bomb.
    Current Dr. Strange needed demonic amps to just reach planet busting level.
    Not in the same ballpark.

    “So? What difference does it make? That still puts them in the same ballpark”

    Thanos simply doesn’t have the feats to put him on the same scale of galactus.
    Sure he mentally overpowered him once, but he’s gotten beat (and by beat I mean Rofl stomped) many times.
    Thanos is NOT anywhere near galaxy busting. Galactus very easily is.

    “Umm, what? When has Thanos struggled with planet busters, 616 Thanos, at least”

    Thanos has lost to the Thing & Thor.
    Thanos has lost to a slightly amped Thor.
    He’s lost plenty of times to planet busters. Although he is generally one of the highest tier planet busters.

    “You know what, show how Strange is remotely relevant here in a versus that involves Doctor Doom.”

    It is relevant, because Doom AND Strange together were struggling to best Mephisto.
    And anyways, if you don’t want to discuss it,don’t discuss it. Debates go off topic all the time.

    “Seriously? I posted several scans that clearly showed Doom and Mephisto duke-ing it out alone”

    And I stated that Doom was losing big time… so what’s the problem?
    you posted a scan and I commented on it. Welcome to BankGambling.

    “Why can’t I? He doesn’t have to be fighting 24/7, and this is Las Vegas. It’s a big place”

    It might have taken him several weeks to make some of the things he made, and it might have taken extremely rare materials and nuclear reactors and stuff.
    Point being, burden of proof is on you to PROVE he can make something useful with the EXACT time and resources that he will have.
    You can assume whatever you like, but your assumptions hold no value in a debate without proof.

  77. Ragnorke September 15, 2014 at 5:16 am -      #77

    whoops, sorry for dat double post.

  78. Warlock Lowk September 15, 2014 at 5:20 am -      #78

    “Does Team 1 even have speed feats?”

    I think Rand was having a lightning timing feat being debated, And Rahl iirc has height perception.

  79. Jake_Uzumaki September 15, 2014 at 8:05 am -      #79

    “Fight takes place in Las Vegas at night. It has been deserted. They begin on opposite ends of the strip, 200 meters apart. ”

    They start 200 meters apart. Why would Doom ignore dangerous opponents in favor of walking around and seeing what he can salvage from the nearby buildings? As opposed to opening up a can of whoop ass on team Force?

    Molly could open a Way into the Never Never when the match starts and just have it open between team magic and team force. then open a smaller one behind them and have them slip through then close the big one step through the small one and close it. From there they could plan how to attack once they get back to Vegas but they aren’t going to make a plan that involves Doom taking time to try and build complex machinery. Again..one of his allies is walking techbane his armor should work since he uses it while using magic and it should have built up resistance but anything new he makes is going to break down or explode.

    A good strategy would be the above, followed by opening another way and having Ebenezer one shot kill everyone not named Abeloth and Nihilus with his Death Spell then just have everyone focus on soul raping and erasing those two from reality.

  80. Friendlysociopath September 15, 2014 at 9:21 am -      #80

    So, it seems from the descriptions each side has a lot of one-shot moves. The question then rises, who can use them first? I have to give that one to Team Force, Rand’Al has some good speed feats, and Rahl is supposed to be pretty fast- but Force-user fast?

    They’re only 200 meters apart, for characters of this caliber, that’s not really that far.

    Also, just throwing foresight out there.

  81. Ragnorke September 15, 2014 at 9:46 am -      #81

    @friendlysociopath
    “So, it seems from the descriptions each side has a lot of one-shot moves”

    Why do people keep saying this?
    No. Team 1 has dozens of one-shot moves, whereas Team 2 has none.

  82. Jake_Uzumaki September 15, 2014 at 12:41 pm -      #82

    Well if Palpatine get’s a Force Storm off it would kill most people on team one. It rips open a space time wormhole and uses it to either travel or to wipe out fleets or essentially raze a planet.
    But it’s so overkill I don’t know if it would be something Palpatine would go for. Plus it would leave a massively pissed off goddess of mind rape behind.
    On the other hand only Abeloth and Nihilus can survive some of Team One’s hax, mostly the mind rape and Ebenezer’s kill 100 people with a single word and wave of his staff spell.
    From there Abeloth and Nihilus can be taken out by a Balefire blast from Callandor amplified by a circle made up of everyone on Team Magic or by Molly soul raping them.

  83. Ragnorke September 15, 2014 at 2:23 pm -      #83

    “Well if Palpatine get’s a Force Storm off it would kill most people on team one. It rips open a space time wormhole and uses it to either travel or to wipe out fleets or essentially raze a planet.”

    Or Dr. Doom just absorbs it all and redirects it to team 2. The end.
    How long does it take to create this storm anyways?

    “On the other hand only Abeloth and Nihilus can survive some of Team One’s hax,”

    How the hell can they survive Balefire & Subtractive Lightning?

    “From there Abeloth and Nihilus can be taken out by a Balefire blast from Callandor amplified by a circle made up of everyone on Team Magic”

    Or… He can be taken out by REGULAR Balefire… which would take like 0.0001 second…

  84. Commander Cross September 15, 2014 at 3:55 pm -      #84

    @Ragnorke at #83

    I think when it comes to some of Side A’s Hax being talked about, they aren’t talking Balefire or Subtractive Lightning if the latter hits.
    It’s most likely some of the other Hax being talked about rather than the Red Flag-Obvious examples.

    Obviously, McCoy being around Any Lightsaber-wielding Force-Users would cock up a lot of Side B’s day to say the least, plus there’s also Darquesse and Lord Vile having the options to go nab the Souls of any Slain Force-Users if needed, no guarantees it’ll work on Nihilus or Abeloth but if the latter two gets hit with Balefire, that’s moot.

    I’m pretty sure Argeddion has usefulness somewhere, he could help out Rand and Rahl somehow like making Rand’s huge discussion in terms of Un-amplified reflexes a Royally Moot Point.

    Also Rand can do bloody well against Post-NJO Luke already even without it.

  85. Warlock Lowk September 15, 2014 at 6:34 pm -      #85

    So Molly doesn’t have many destructive feat herself because she’s never had much power to draw on. But now that she is backed by winter she should at the least be Dresden’s level destructive wise..
    Found some example of some junior warden recruits level of power
    Tornado
    i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/infamousColeMacgrath/Dresdenstuff/Dresdenblast_zps0df5494a.png
    Creating fissure
    i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/infamousColeMacgrath/Dresdenstuff/Juniorwizardmagic_zpsd5b36cd7.png

  86. Jake_Uzumaki September 15, 2014 at 6:45 pm -      #86

    @Ragnorke
    Oh I didn’t mean to imply Subtractive wouldn’t work, I just didn’t feel like listing every single candidates one shot kill lol.

    The amplified Balefire was basically me saying that the chance of those two really managing a sweep by themselves is low enough team 1 could charge up a city-state busting blast.

  87. Commander Cross September 15, 2014 at 6:47 pm -      #87

    @Warlock Lowk at #85

    You mean Pre-Changes level or Post-Changes, for specifications’ sake?

    A Huge Difference in terms of Levels and Tiers as far as incarnations for Dresden Himself is concerned.

    Also in regards to Tornados and whatnot, that looks like that ‘Zan Rom’ Wind Spell I’ve read about On Crack! O___O

    ____

    I’m at Summer Knight if it means anything, there might be some guys who could potentially give some of the Teen Wolf Werewolves a Fight, be it Capture-the-Flag or more formal Group Combat ideas if it means anything.
    Assuming if it got potential to actually work in fact, but that’s neither here nor there until further notice.

    Anyway, with possible exceptions going to Abeloth, Nihilus or anyone with the Dagger of Abeloth on them, Molly Carpenter’s Nigh-unkillable by most of the means Side B can concoct, is that about right?

  88. wingedlion September 15, 2014 at 7:59 pm -      #88

    “Or Dr. Doom just absorbs it all and redirects it to team 2. The end.”

    since when can he absorb wormholes?

  89. Jake_Uzumaki September 15, 2014 at 8:09 pm -      #89

    Audiobook reading of the attack in action
    images.wikia.com/starwars/images/1/14/Force_storm2-DE.ogg
    It takes several seconds to a minute I think but not sure

  90. Commander Cross September 15, 2014 at 8:18 pm -      #90

    No one in Side A is stupid enough to let The Emperor attempt a Force Storm of the Star-System kind, especially not Rand, Lord Vile, Darquesse or McCoy or Post-Cold Days Molly.

    Doctor Doom might have uses or ways to counter such an attempt either before, during or after it gets fired, but no one in Side A’s gonna let the storm hit them in particular.

    Argeddion still has the options to Seal Rand’s and Rahl’s True Names if either Rand or Rahl have True Names, which would make at least Rand even more powerful than he already is if it works on Rand.

    If it works on Rahl as well, that’s cool too, somebody has to divert Starkiller’s attention around here rather than wait around to get Overkilled all over the place, yet even if Argeddion’s Upgrading works on Rahl, Starkiller still fought worse than what Rahl would offer.

    Hmm, I wonder, if between a Callandor-Amped Rand if he gets affected by Argeddion’s Powers and Post-Cold Days Molly Carpenter with which one’s more suited to fight Nihilus or Abeloth respectively, and leave the un-selected Force-user to the other.

  91. Malenfant September 15, 2014 at 8:57 pm -      #91

    “Current Adam Warlock absorbed the explosion from a universe busting bomb.
    Current Dr. Strange needed demonic amps to just reach planet busting level.
    Not in the same ballpark.”

    How’s this responding to what I said? Also Strange was with prep in that scenario, and on another occasion with prep (20 minutes of it) he survive the IG destroying half the life in the universe.

    “Thanos simply doesn’t have the feats to put him on the same scale of galactus.
    Sure he mentally overpowered him once, but he’s gotten beat (and by beat I mean Rofl stomped) many times.”

    He’s wielded the Infinity Gauntlet and Heart of Infinite/the Universe. I’m pretty sure that’s beyond Galactus. Also, he also tends to have Cosmic Cubes handy every now and then, which is universal+ at bare minimum. But whatever, this is irrelevant.

    “Thanos has lost to the Thing & Thor.
    Thanos has lost to a slightly amped Thor.”

    Thor, atleast has shown stronger feats than planet-busting several times in base form. Losing to the thing sounds like PIS. Anyways, Thanos has tanked universe busters atleast twice. There’s not much Galactus can really do to kill him, even sans Death’s protection.

    “It is relevant, because Doom AND Strange together were struggling to best Mephisto.
    And anyways, if you don’t want to discuss it,don’t discuss it. Debates go off topic all the time.”

    Yes. On one occasion. I’ve already posted a scan where Strange wasn’t involved at all, regardless of how well Doom was doing.

    “And I stated that Doom was losing big time… so what’s the problem?
    you posted a scan and I commented on it. Welcome to BankGambling.”

    Did you just change your argument? You’re above comment says ‘Doom and Strange both struggled to beat Mephisto’, now you seem to acknowledge that Doom fought him alone. Look, I’m not saying Doom has beat Mephisto, just that he can fight him and has summoned him.

    “It might have taken him several weeks to make some of the things he made, and it might have taken extremely rare materials and nuclear reactors and stuff.Point being, burden of proof is on you to PROVE he can make something useful with the EXACT time and resources that he will have.
    You can assume whatever you like, but your assumptions hold no value in a debate without proof.”

    He was able to create a time machine from random shit, he considers himself to be at Reed Richards level of intelligence, who has created universe level tech IIRC, Tony Stark considers him a genius, he can understand a Watcher’s machinery, he’s created tech that can do anything from literally entering Heaven to casually mind controlling the entire planet. In addition to his basic Ovoid Mind Transfer (still nothing to suggest even that won’t work) stuff and stealing the Power Cosmic, he’s subdued the Power Cosmic, stole the fucking Beyonder’s power, and conquered all of 616 Earth twice. Even if he can’t replicate high end feats, it’s certainly easy for him to steamroll the Force Users here.

  92. Jake_Uzumaki September 15, 2014 at 9:11 pm -      #92

    Just saying…Thanos has also gotten smacked by a Warriors Madness Power Gem amped Thor and smiled…so…

  93. wingedlion September 15, 2014 at 9:33 pm -      #93

    “He was able to create a time machine from random shit, he considers himself to be at Reed Richards level of intelligence, who has created universe level tech IIRC, Tony Stark considers him a genius, he can understand a Watcher’s machinery, he’s created tech that can do anything from literally entering Heaven to casually mind controlling the entire planet. In addition to his basic Ovoid Mind Transfer (still nothing to suggest even that won’t work) stuff and stealing the Power Cosmic, he’s subdued the Power Cosmic, stole the fucking Beyonder’s power, and conquered all of 616 Earth twice. Even if he can’t replicate high end feats, it’s certainly easy for him to steamroll the Force Users here.”

    we all know that he has high-end prep feats. none of that proves that he can make whatever he wants with the time and resources he has in this fight, which is what ragnorke was talking about.

  94. Ragnorke September 16, 2014 at 7:12 am -      #94

    @wingedlion
    “since when can he absorb wormholes?”

    I haven’t actually seen the feat, but it was called a “storm”… therefore i assumed it was lightning in nature… I still have no idea how it functions, so i dunno.

    “none of that proves that he can make whatever he wants with the time and resources he has in this fight, which is what ragnorke was talking about.”

    I just don’t think Malenfant understands that devices usually require very specific resources to make.

    @Malenfant
    “How’s this responding to what I said? Also Strange was with prep in that scenario, and on another occasion with prep (20 minutes of it) he survive the IG destroying half the life in the universe.”

    You implied that Strange was > Warlock… since Warlock needed an IG to fight strange… Or i think that was what you were implying anyways.
    I replied by saying current Adam Warlock steamrolls Current Strange extremely hard.

    “He’s wielded the Infinity Gauntlet and Heart of Infinite/the Universe. I’m pretty sure that’s beyond Galactus”

    Galactus could wield those 2 items too… what’s your point?
    Just becuase he HAS been above Galactus as certain points, with certain ridiculous amps… doesn’t mean he’s naturally at the same level by default.
    Neither the IG or the HotU fall under standard/default equipment for Thanos.
    As far as innate feats & showings go, Galactus >>>>> Thanos.

    ” Thanos has tanked universe busters atleast twice. ”

    Lol what?
    You need to stop considering plot-devices as standard equipment.

    “There’s not much Galactus can really do to kill him”

    Are you fucking serious?
    The Galactus clone Omega blasted Thanos once, and Thanos goes on to state that it required his most powerful shields to tank the hit… and he STILL almost died.
    The real Galactus attacked Thanos when Thanos pissed him off… Thanos only managed to tank ONE hit again, before his shields went down.. and he literally started BEGGING for mercy.
    No, it wasn’t PiS.

    Thanos can die. Death doesn’t stop him from getting killed. Death provides no protection for him.
    Deadpool is the one who got cursed BY Thanos to stop him from ever dying / seeing death.
    Stop pulling shit out of your ass.

    “Yes. On one occasion. I’ve already posted a scan where Strange wasn’t involved at all”

    It was the SAME occasion as far as i know. It was the same story arc.
    Doom was “holding his own” against Mephisto for a few minutes, sure, but even after Strange stepped in to help, they were still losing.
    Doom has never had a full fight with Mephisto on his own, without Strange.

    “Look, I’m not saying Doom has beat Mephisto, just that he can fight him and has summoned him.”

    And what i’m saying is that Mephisto stomps Doom so hard… that saying Doom can “fight him” is practically irrelevant.
    Captain America has FOUGHT Thanos a couple of times. But what the fuck does that mean? Nothing. Because they aren’t anywhere near the same tier.
    Doom & Mephisto is the same situation.

    “He was able to create a time machine from random shit,”

    Except it wasn’t “random shit”… it was the exact materials he needed to built a time machine.
    You cannot prove he has access to those materials in this match.

    “Even if he can’t replicate high end feats, it’s certainly easy for him to steamroll the Force Users here.”

    Which i never denied. I agree he steamrolls team 2.
    But prep-time feats have no place in this match.

  95. Commander Cross September 17, 2014 at 12:13 pm -      #95

    I feel so stupid, Tanith Low once took Valkyrie Cain to go study Star Wars in general, and while I do hope that it’s not just ‘Modern’ Star Wars* being studied, I’d hope more that The Skullheads*’ corner will not be too far behind The Butcher Side’s corner of Side A in those respects, if The Lady Skullhead herself exploits what she’d share with Val about it.

    1.) (I’ve made no secret of preferring Ancient Star Wars In General.)

    2.) (How fitting, The Skullheads feel like a Band or Legion of Badasses to say the least, actually it’s more like a Band or Legion of Legends, because ‘Mere Badass’ just isn’t enough.)

  96. Ragnorke September 17, 2014 at 12:32 pm -      #96

    @commander cross
    Once again, i have no idea what you’re saying :(

    Who’re Tanith Low & Valkyrie Cain? and what’s the Skullheads & The Butchers Side? xD

  97. Commander Cross September 17, 2014 at 12:44 pm -      #97

    @Ragnorke at #96

    I’m fighting to avoid spoilers, I’ll answer half the first question at page 02, but for the second, Might I take it you weren’t there-at-all when
    the name of ‘The Butcher Side’ has originated?

    ‘The Butcher Side’ includes The Dresden Files and Codex Alera Volumes by the likes of Jim Butcher Himself in fact.

    Are you following that bit thus far, yet?

  98. Malenfant September 17, 2014 at 6:34 pm -      #98

    “You implied that Strange was > Warlock… since Warlock needed an IG to fight strange… Or i think that was what you were implying anyways.
    I replied by saying current Adam Warlock steamrolls Current Strange extremely hard.”

    That wasn’t my point. My point was that even using an incomplete IG, like the one that Doom was blasted by, one can still achieve great effect on the universe.

    “Galactus could wield those 2 items too… what’s your point?”

    That Galactus hasn’t demonstrated the feats off such a degree of cosmic siphoning. But like I said, irrelevant.

    “Lol what?
    You need to stop considering plot-devices as standard equipment.”

    Comics ‘standard equipment’ are plot devices.

    “Are you fucking serious?
    The Galactus clone Omega blasted Thanos once, and Thanos goes on to state that it required his most powerful shields to tank the hit… and he STILL almost died.
    The real Galactus attacked Thanos when Thanos pissed him off… Thanos only managed to tank ONE hit again, before his shields went down.. and he literally started BEGGING for mercy.
    No, it wasn’t PiS.”

    Huh, interesting, he didn’t kill him either scenario. It’s almost as if that doesn’t change my point.

    “Thanos can die. Death doesn’t stop him from getting killed. Death provides no protection for him.”

    No, she doesn’t. All she does it bring him back to life, after. I never said otherwise.

    “It was the SAME occasion as far as i know. It was the same story arc.”

    Being in the same story arc does not make it the same fight. Especially since we know it’s not the same fight.

    “Doom was “holding his own” against Mephisto for a few minutes, sure, but even after Strange stepped in to help, they were still losing.”

    For the last time, I haven’t said they ever got anywhere. All I’m saying is that he’s able to hold against Mephisto, who in turn could crush everyone else in this match. Think for a second, this isn’t Doom/Strange v. Mephisto.

    “Doom has never had a full fight with Mephisto on his own, without Strange.”

    Then what constitutes as a ‘full fight’, because I have no idea what was happening in the scans I posted in that case.

    “And what i’m saying is that Mephisto stomps Doom so hard… that saying Doom can “fight him” is practically irrelevant.”

    So why didn’t he stomp him in the scans I posted?

    “Captain America has FOUGHT Thanos a couple of times. But what the fuck does that mean? Nothing. Because they aren’t anywhere near the same tier.
    Doom & Mephisto is the same situation.”

    Prove it. Prove that Mephisto is so far above Doom that you can just throw out a feat of them obviously duking it out together.

    “Except it wasn’t “random shit”… it was the exact materials he needed to built a time machine.
    You cannot prove he has access to those materials in this match.”

    What? He was trapped in the future by Merlin, how in the world could he get access to the exact materials he needed in that scenario?

  99. sadot06 September 18, 2014 at 7:20 am -      #99

    “Who’re Tanith Low & Valkyrie Cain? and what’s the Skullheads & The Butchers Side?”

    Tanith Low is a swordwielding character from Skullduggery Pleasant. Valkyrie Cain is Darquesse before learning her true name and becoming death incarnate. Star Wars exists as fiction in the Skullduggery universe as well as Dresden file’s.

  100. Ragnorke September 18, 2014 at 8:16 am -      #100

    “Huh, interesting, he didn’t kill him either scenario. It’s almost as if that doesn’t change my point.”

    In the first Scenario, an Amped Adam Warlock started fighting Galactus, and saved Thanos’ life.
    In the second Scenario, Thanos had just enough time to beg for mercy, because he had some intell that Galactus needed.
    It’s a fact that Galactus can stomp Thanos whenever he likes, under normal circumstances.
    Saying that Thanos can put up a fight without PiS on his side is a complete & utter asspull, and that’s something everyone on BankGambling would agree on.

    “That Galactus hasn’t demonstrated the feats off such a degree of cosmic siphoning.”

    Galactus has consumed a universe.

    “Comics ‘standard equipment’ are plot devices.”

    So you’re saying if a character wields an item in only 1 of his thousand showings… that item becomes standard equipment?
    That’s a fallacy, and is straight up against Facptile debating rules.
    Neither the IG or HotU are Standard Equipment for Thanos.

    “No, she doesn’t. All she does it bring him back to life, after. I never said otherwise.”

    …So Thanos can still die, and Galactus can still kill him with ease. So i’m not sure what your point was.

    “I haven’t said they ever got anywhere. All I’m saying is that he’s able to hold against Mephisto,”

    And this is exactly what i’m disagreeing with.
    It’s the Captain America vs Thanos example. It’s plot-induced stupidity.

    “So why didn’t he stomp him in the scans I posted?”

    The same reason Thanos doesn’t just instantly destroy Earth or kill Captain America. PiS.

    “Prove it. Prove that Mephisto is so far above Doom that you can just throw out a feat of them obviously duking it out together.”

    Mephisto has beaten Galactus. I dare you to show me an unamped Doom fighting anyone near Galactus.

    “What? He was trapped in the future by Merlin, how in the world could he get access to the exact materials he needed in that scenario?”

    He had access to the exact materials he needed, because he was able to build exactly what he wanted to build.
    Unless you’re saying that Doom can build ANYTHING he wants, with ANY MATERIALS he has… which is pure PiS, and has no place in this match.
    If you believe Doom can build a device in this match, you need to prove he will have the materials (and time) required to build said device.

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