Marsh Vs Eragon

Marsh Vs Eragon

Suggested by Kaladin Stormblessed

Making his debut on BankGambling is Marsh from the Mistborn trilogy (as of the end of Hero of Ages) versus Eragon from the Inheritance series.

No words of death for Eragon, and he only has his own strength to draw on.

Marsh does not have Atium.

The battle takes place in the Super Bowl Stadium.

The combatants start in the endzones.

Who wins?

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91 Comments on "Marsh Vs Eragon"

  1. nsl98 September 11, 2014 at 6:41 am -      #1

    First, and doesn’t Eragon have like limitless energy in some of his items?

    No clue about the other guy

  2. Commander Cross September 11, 2014 at 6:46 am -      #2

    I do hope Marsh walks out alive and with his mind and sanity intact by the time the fighting’s done.

    Marsh sounds kind-of-cool to learn about.

    Although Again with the Movie-based images for Eragon!?

    Would it kill you all to do an image for Eragon that’s I dunno, NON-MOVIE BASED!?

    ____

    That said, if it were Murtagh, my verdict would go for the opposite direction, know this.

    Kaladin, if you want to represent Marsh, make sure you specified that Marsh has Top-Notch Gear at the ready and prepare for the inevitable Inheritance Wankage(mostly on Post-Eldest Eragon or Alagaesian Elves in general.) about to be fired, you hear me!?

  3. Rookie September 11, 2014 at 7:26 am -      #3

    Marsh looks cool, what he can do? Can somebody post feats for him.

    @Commander Cross

    Eragon strike again it seems)))

  4. Friendlysociopath September 11, 2014 at 8:44 am -      #4

    Well, I know nothing about this Marsh at the moment so I’ll drop a little Eragon knowledge and see how this progresses.

    Magic: Eragon can exert his will to alter reality in a variety of fashions, limited only by his energy and his knowledge of the Ancient Language. Notable examples include the ability to ward himself from harm and his being able to use various offensive techniques (You know, fireballs and such)

    Mind rape: Eragon as a Rider is capable of attacking his opponent mentally whilst in physical combat. Should he overpower his opponent’s defenses they become nigh helpless.

    Physical strength: Eragon gets a power-boost from the dragons; he is strong enough to punch through armor and he produces shockwaves when he swings his sword. He also jumped a couple of stories straight up just to see if he could. I recall him also killing a number of men before their bodies could even hit the floor.

    Equipment: Does Eragon get a shield or his armor btw? He mentions how he likes having them but they aren’t always around when he needs them. His sword, Brisinger, apparently functions like a lightsaber when he activates it. He cleaves through large metal doors like they’re nothing, the sword is also crafted of an unbreakable metal held together with magic.

  5. Friendlysociopath September 11, 2014 at 8:53 am -      #5

    Also, what exactly does “Wankage” mean? I’ve not seen this word anywhere else besides this site.

  6. Rookie September 11, 2014 at 8:57 am -      #6

    @Friendlysociopath

    “Also, what exactly does “Wankage” mean?”

    AFAIK Wank + Rage.

  7. OberHerr September 11, 2014 at 9:35 am -      #7

    Removing Words of Death does not remove his ability to kill a un-magically shielded human anatomy with one word. It just makes it cost more energy than moving your hand.

  8. VulkanMatath September 11, 2014 at 9:45 am -      #8

    Another thing, does eragon know the Name of the ancient language? cause that would be a major stomp.

    We really need info on marsh here. Anyone know anything? Even what he is from?

  9. Commander Cross September 11, 2014 at 11:16 am -      #9

    @FriendlySociopath on #4

    Cite the Quotes on the Shockwaves bit if you got the novels on you, I don’t trust the Wikia! 👿

    As for Mind Rape, tell that to Drizzt Du’Urden from some other fight on BankGambling, except there be someone akin to Mike Rahl or any nutcases on Sora from Kingdom Hearts in there so Forget I said that.

    @VulkanMatath at #8

    For all intents and purposes I’m gonna wait until Stormblessed returns, until that time, One Mistborn Humanoid is worth 10x Alagaesian Elves for all I care.

    Call back to me when they’re bullet-timers and I’ll say something different otherwise, otherwise until then it’s snores-ville if they try it now.*

    Or Eragon just gets his head punched clean off, whichever happens first.

    1.) (In which I fall asleep.)

  10. VulkanMatath September 11, 2014 at 11:32 am -      #10

    I have no idea what a misborn human is. Is that hat marsh is? I do not know anything about him. What i do know is that the name of the ancient language makes eragon worth 100 elves (magicaly at least). Can you provide any info on Marsh?

  11. KalaDellexe September 11, 2014 at 12:28 pm -      #11

    To clarify what I mean by “Hero of Ages Marsh” is that at this point he has 20-something spikes and that his metalminds are relatively full.

    This means he has large stores of Health, Speed, Strength, and Weight.

    I’ll clarify stuff later, I have to leave in a minute, but Marsh has ridiculous amounts of healing (that can be done pretty much instantly), insane strength, can move incredibly fast for short bursts. He has mental shielding and can “hear” magic being used around him. He can manipulate metal to use as projectiles or allow him to move quickly throughout the battlefield. Will post more in depth stuff later.

  12. Friendlysociopath September 11, 2014 at 1:18 pm -      #12

    I don’t have my books on me (At college for 12 hour stints) but it’s when he’s training against Vanir. After he transforms the duel between the two produces shockwaves.

  13. Rookie September 11, 2014 at 1:25 pm -      #13

    @KalaDellexe

    “can move incredibly fast for short bursts.”

    Can he fight\react at this speed? Or is it more like teleportation ability?

  14. KalaDellexe September 11, 2014 at 3:57 pm -      #14

    RIGHT! I have some time so I’m going to start going over Marsh’s abilities.

    Marsh is a Hemalurgic construct, meaning he is no longer human. As you can see in the picture, his eyes have been replaced with Spikes that go completely through his head and out the back. He has another 20 or so of these Spikes throughout his body. Hemalurgic Spikes steal powers and abilities from others, and bestow those powers upon others when placed in specific points on the recipient’s body. It’s kinda like brutal, power stealing acupuncture.

    Now, we don’t know for sure what Spikes Marsh has, but based on his abilities and number of Spikes (a bit over 20, so 21-24) some people have puzzled out what spikes he has.
    www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/8829-marshs-powers-and-the-hemalurgy-use/
    In case you don’t care to look at this link, here’s what Marsh is mostly likely to have:

    –Two Spikes giving him Allomantic Iron (Ability to Pull on metal sources nearby)
    –One Spike giving him Feruchemical Iron (Ability to store his mass inside of metal and then retrieve it later, think 1 minute of half-weight could give you half a minute of 150% weight, or 15 seconds of 200% weight, etc. The body is strengthened against the effects of the increased weight)
    –Two Spikes giving him Allomantic Steel (Ability to Pull on metal sources nearby)
    –One Spike giving him Feruchemical Steel (Ability to store and use his physical speed, only limit is air-resistance)
    –Two Spikes giving him Allomantic Tin (Greatly enhances the senses, a weaker Tineye was able to dodge sword swings by feeling air disturbances and hearing heartbeats)
    -One Spike giving him Feruchemical Tin (Store and Use Senses)
    –Two Spikes giving him Allomantic Pewter (Enhances physical capabilities. Enhanced speed, grace, balance, strength, endurance, and physical toughness)
    -One Spike giving him Feruchemical Pewter (Store and use physical strength. He can essentially turn into the Hulk for a short time)
    –One Spike giving him Allomantic Zinc (Allows the user to Riot, or inflame, the emotions of others around them)
    –One Spike giving him Allomantic Brass (Allows the user to Soothe, or dampen, the emotions of others around them)
    –One Spike giving him Allomantic Copper (Shields the user from magical detection and manipulation)
    –One Spike giving him Allomantic Bronze (Allows him to Seek out magic in the area. Marsh is doubly strong in this)
    –One Spike giving him Feruchemical Bronze (Store and Use Wakefulness, essentially just lets him not need to sleep)
    –One Spike giving him Allomantic Gold (not useful in this fight)
    –One Spike giving him Feruchemical Gold (Allows him to store and use Health. Combined with Allomantic Gold it gives him fairly ridiculous healing capabilities)
    –Allomantic Duralumin (Enhances the effects of other Allomantic metals for a short time)
    –Allomantic Atium (not pertinent, as I specified Marsh does not have Atium in this fight)
    –Feruchemical Atium (not useful)


    Now onto the more complicated things. Marsh can Compound. Compounding gives him an effectively unlimited supply of the Feruchemical attributes, all that matters is the speed at which he can tap that power. This allows for high bursts of speed, large boosts of strength, and overpowered healing.


    @Rookie post 13
    Yes. It’s fighting/reacting at that speed. It’s fast enough that a Mistborn (pretty much a bullet-timer) can’t track movement.

  15. Glutinous-Bicarbonate September 11, 2014 at 4:02 pm -      #15

    True Name Eragon stomps. With it, a Magician can command spells to simply not work, or change the fundamental basics of them.

    By only his own strength, does that include the various gems he’s hidden strength in?

  16. KalaDellexe September 11, 2014 at 4:09 pm -      #16

    “By only his own strength, does that include the various gems he’s hidden strength in?”

    No. I intended no gems for this.

    “True Name Eragon stomps. ”

    If it ends up being too stompy we can always say no True Name Eragon.

  17. Glutinous-Bicarbonate September 11, 2014 at 4:14 pm -      #17

    Then it also bears to question if Marsh can resupply his metals. Compounding only works with the reasources to obtain those metals.

    I if so, that kind of leaves Eragon at a disadvantage, unless there are other life forms nearby for him to reluctantly steal energy from.

  18. KalaDellexe September 11, 2014 at 4:23 pm -      #18

    “I if so, that kind of leaves Eragon at a disadvantage, unless there are other life forms nearby for him to reluctantly steal energy from.”

    If it ends up being an issue (I want this to be a pretty even match) then Eragon can have some gems. Nothing crazy strong, though.

    “Then it also bears to question if Marsh can resupply his metals. Compounding only works with the reasources to obtain those metals.”

    He has just the metals in his stomach, his armbands, and his spikes as metal sources. If he drains his stores of, say, Feruchemical Steel, and compounds to get more, he’d lose the ability to use Allomantic Steel.

  19. Epicazeroth September 11, 2014 at 4:45 pm -      #19

    @Glutinous: “True Name Eragon stomps.”
    No, for two reasons.
    1) Allomancy is absolutely nothing like the Ancient Language.
    2) The Cosmere has multiple types of Magic. There’s no reason to think that Eragon can command all of these, or even any; they come from completely different sources.

    “Compounding only works with the reasources to obtain those metals.”
    I would assume he would have a full supply of metals already swallowed to be at combat-ready capabilities. Also, compounding is far more powerful than just draining. For example, compounding a piece of Pewter – since it has the same effect for Allomancy and Feruchemy – would give him around 5-10x the normal strength boost of using just one.
    ===
    @Kaladin: “If he drains his stores of, say, Feruchemical Steel, and compounds to get more, he’d lose the ability to use Allomantic Steel.”
    Sometimes. IIRC, he still gets the powers from the Allomancy if he compounds. So, he could time it so that he compounds when he’s using that metal for combat anyway. For example, he compounds Steel while using the Allomantic energy from that Steel to Push.

    “One Spike giving him Allomantic Gold (not useful in this fight)”
    It could be. Aside from compounding, it’s possible he could use it as a sort of Atium. Meaning, he could use it to see what’s about to happen to him – whether an attack is about to hit him, etc.

  20. KalaDellexe September 11, 2014 at 4:56 pm -      #20

    “It could be. Aside from compounding, it’s possible he could use it as a sort of Atium. Meaning, he could use it to see what’s about to happen to him – whether an attack is about to hit him, etc.”

    I thought that it was Electrum that showed you your future?

    “Sometimes. IIRC, he still gets the powers from the Allomancy if he compounds.”

    I thought if you key a metal to be a Feruchemical store it no longer functions as an Allomantic trigger. It might be that if he completely depletes the Feruchemical store from it that it’d work as Allomantic fuel again, but while he’s Compounding he cannot use that metal for Allomancy.

  21. Glutinous-Bicarbonate September 11, 2014 at 5:53 pm -      #21

    I’ll grant that Shardic magic is probably too different for Eragon to have much power over.

    Eragon has shown himself capable of transmuting one thing into an entirely different substance, such as converting sand into water. This was done when he was still relatively new to magic, and far weaker with a much smaller vocabulary, and thus was extremely taxing and time consuming. In most cases I wouldn’t make much of it, but with the Name (really, I’m crossing into completely theoretical grounds, so sorry) he could potentially change the nature of the spell to transmute to make it more energy and time efficient. If this were to be possible, he could-in a very theoretical sense-either transform Marsh’s metals or spikes, which would leave him largely dead or powerless.

    But that’s an extreme stretch.

    You say his copper properties include resistance to magical manipulation, to what extent does that work?

  22. Epicazeroth September 11, 2014 at 6:57 pm -      #22

    @Kaladin: Oh, my bad. I probably looked at the wrong link when I looked it up.

    I can’t find anything about Compounding giving you Allomantic power, so I’ll trust your memory if you have the book. Though, apparently Sanderson said it’s possible to use Compounding to enhance your Allomancy through Feruchemy, instead of the other way around. Presumably you’d have to be able to burn Nicrosil for that, though. So only a true Mistborn and Feruchemist could do that.
    ===
    @Glutinous: I’d say there are two ways knowing a True Name could help Eragon.
    1) If he’s able to change Marsh’s metals and spikes.
    2) If he knows the True Names of the Shards or Shardic Magics. Though, the Grey Folk wouldn’t know about them, so they wouldn’t have a word for them.

    Although, I can’t remember if whether a material is magical has an effect. For example, could Eragon manipulate a gem with stored Magic, or an enchanted blade?

    Burning Copper allows him to become immune to being found by Bronze (though a vastly more powerful being could do it, such as someone with Lerasium). It also makes him immune to emotional manipulation. It doesn’t affect things like Pushes and Pulls, so Eragon can affect him indirectly.

  23. KalaDellexe September 11, 2014 at 7:27 pm -      #23

    @Epicazeroth

    Yeah. I’m pretty sure something being a Feruchemical store makes it so it can’t trigger Allomancy. I remember a WoB on the Theoryland database about it.

    And yeah, the theory is that by storing Investiture in a Nicrosil-mind you can use it to “super-fuel” Allomancy.


    Regarding Copper:
    We’re (I’m meaning the 17th Shard (forum site dedicated to figuring out how stuff works) and I) not sure how it works. We only know its effects. It muffles the pulses given off by magic in an area, though an exceptionally powerful Allomancer (or someone like Marsh, who has double-Allomantic strength through Hemalurgy) can penetrate these “Copperclouds.” It has another effect of making the user resistant to magical influence. Again, however, an exceptionally powerful Allomancer could break through a Coppercloud’s protection. Though the only known instance of this is the Lord Ruler, who could mind control well over a hundred thousand Koloss simultaneously and crush the emotions of tens of thousands of people at a time. So it’s kinda hard to do. 😛

    And Hemalurgic spikes are resistant to being affected by other magic. They aren’t VERY resistant though, so it’s likely a non-factor. Eragon’s matter manipulation takes a fair amount of time and concentration, though. Marsh has a low end running speed of 110 MPH so he can close the gap pretty quickly. A more moderate estimate (delving into theorizing here) is around 500 MPH. High end is, well, in the thousands. But that’s pretty unlikely to happen.

    And whether affecting a Spike will kill Marsh or not depends on the Spike. Some spikes can be removed or shifted without killing the construct immediately, but other ones (the eye spikes and central spike) will kill the construct immediately upon removal.

  24. OberHerr September 11, 2014 at 8:05 pm -      #24

    Whats stopping Eragon from simply saying stopping Marsh’s heart, or making him burn up form the inside, or tearing his organs, or teleporting his head away, or any of the very simple ways to kill him with a few words.

    I mean, if we’re assuming the Name of the Ancient Language doesn’t affect the magical ability of Marsh, why should Eragons magic?

  25. Commander Cross September 11, 2014 at 8:18 pm -      #25

    Built-In Anti-Magic Defenses opposing Direct Offensive Magic Powers, That’s WHAT!

    The best part?

    Not even a few seconds or split-seconds are required to boot up said defenses before Eragon tries such things, Eragon could try to throw a pebble at Bullet Speeds and Marsh would just either dodge or deflect it one way or another.

    If Eragon wants to give the college try to nail Marsh to the Wall By Magic, he ought to be indirect about it and hope to Alagaesia’s Gods that it’ll work.

    Also in terms of Combat Speed, I doubt Marsh’s Combat Speed is below that of Alagaesian Elves.

  26. Glutinous-Bicarbonate September 11, 2014 at 9:30 pm -      #26

    How do Iron Inquisitors react to being cut into separate bits? Is their regen able to fix a severed limb? What if the main body loses a part with a spike?

    Eragon’s sword, which is named after the word for Fire in the Ancient Language, bursts into fire whenever he says the word for fire. It’s hot of course, but the real kicker is it seems to have special anti-magic properties, such as when it almost effortlessly burns into a huge, thick gate that was enchanted to resist fire.

    Should be at the least enough to cut Marsh up if he can get the hits.

    It does drain energy, but he should be able to handle it for a good while.

  27. Friendlysociopath September 11, 2014 at 10:30 pm -      #27

    2 Questions

    1. Does anyone know why when I load BankGambling it says there are only 10 comments for this match and the recent comments hasn’t updated since?

    2. Can we get some examples of Marsh actually doing these things? I’ve heard he can boost his abilities, could I get some more info? Particularly on these magical defenses and his apparent bullet-dodging speed?

  28. Zazax September 11, 2014 at 11:04 pm -      #28

    “How do Iron Inquisitors react to being cut into separate bits? Is their regen able to fix a severed limb? What if the main body loses a part with a spike?”
    A Gold Compounder can heal through some ridiculous stuff (the Lord Ruler was able to heal through decapitation and being burned down to a skeleton, for example. Marsh probably isn’t that good, though), and we have examples from Alloy of Law of a normal, non-Lord Ruler Gold Compounder living through setting off dynamite in his own hand or living through a headshot, and coming out of it perfectly fine after a couple seconds.
    As for removing spikes, there is one particular spike that if removed insta-kills an Inquisitor, but I imagine losing the rest would simply result in the loss of whatever power that spike granted.

  29. KalaDellexe September 11, 2014 at 11:49 pm -      #29

    “How do Iron Inquisitors react to being cut into separate bits? Is their regen able to fix a severed limb? What if the main body loses a part with a spike?”

    If I recall correctly, Inquisitors only have Spikes on their torso and heads.
    Marsh, because he can Compound, is in the same boat as Miles “I like the taste of dynamite in the morning” Dagouter or The Lord Ruler AKA “I’ve been burned, stabbed, flayed, and beheaded!” He should easily be able to regrow an arm or a leg if he has time (Miles, a weaker Compounder, was able to take a cigar-sized stick of dynamite exploding on him and be up walking a couple seconds later).

    TL:DR Arms and legs? Can be regrown.


    “2. Can we get some examples of Marsh actually doing these things? I’ve heard he can boost his abilities, could I get some more info? Particularly on these magical defenses and his apparent bullet-dodging speed?”

    Magic defences: He’s from the Cosmere. There’s not really much action here, just explanation. People in the Cosmere (Marsh included) are made sentient by a generous helping of magic. This inherent magic resists being affected by other magic, it takes raw Investiture (pure, unfiltered magic) to be able to affect a person directly with magic. The exception is with the mental metals, Brass and Zinc. Somehow, those get around the innate magic.


    Speed:
    CONTEXT: Allomancer can launch coins and other bits of metal at high velocity to use as projectiles. These projectiles will reach enough velocity to rip completely through a person and their clothes. They aren’t sharpened.
    Hero of Ages page 31
    “Blue lines-moving quickly-the Allomantic indication of nearby bits of metal. Vin barely had time to twist herself out of her attack as a handful of coins surprised the Inquisitor from behind.”
    Wax in Alloy of Law also pushes bullets out of the way, but I don’t have that handy to find quotes.
    Now here’s an Inquisitor who’s weaker than Marsh (power-scaling is really easy in the Mistborn world) viewed by Vin, who has shown an ability to dodge bullet-speed (or just pretty dang quick in general) projectiles:
    “The Inquisitor moved with a sudden jolt of speed. Its form became a blur, and Elend swung at only empty air. Elend spun, shock showing on his face as the Inquisitor came up, wielding not an axe, but-oddly-a metal spike, like the ones in his own body but sleeker and longer. The creature raised the spike, moving inhumanly fast-faster even than any Allomancer should have managed.

    So this Inquisitor became a blur and completely moved around a person to get into a position to strike them before the maybe-bullet-timer could react. Feruchemical speed also has a specific upper-end to the speed cap. It’s pretty high.
    “How fast could a steel/steel Twinborn move?
    Brandon Sanderson

    You’d hit physical limits eventually. While the Metallurgic arts generally enhanced the body to deal with the powers granted, things like air resistance would hold you back—perhaps even kill you—if you weren’t careful.”


    Looking for more Marsh specific feats…

  30. Numinous One September 11, 2014 at 11:51 pm -      #30

    Does Marsh have any defences against Eragon simply draining the life out of him, he could probably survive that due to Feurochemical stores, but it’ll be depleting them while enhancing Eragon, allowing him to pull off bigger magics.
    Not a favourable situation.

  31. KalaDellexe September 12, 2014 at 1:22 am -      #31

    “Does Marsh have any defences against Eragon simply draining the life out of him, he could probably survive that due to Feurochemical stores, but it’ll be depleting them while enhancing Eragon, allowing him to pull off bigger magics.
    Not a favourable situation.”

    Presumably Marsh’s innate magic resistance. The only instance I can recall of Investiture being drained from a person is when it was done by Nightblood (Super-powerful sentient sword that would try his hardest to consume entire gods if he could get to them).

  32. Parry Boy September 12, 2014 at 6:01 am -      #32

    For one, I would give the edge on Eragon. Buuuuut, not just yet.

  33. Namer September 12, 2014 at 6:29 am -      #33

    Presumably Marsh’s innate magic resistance.

    But would that magic resistance work against a kind of energy drain that isn’t actually magic? Magic Resistance would be useful against magical fire or whatnot, but there is a distinction between Inheritance’s taking energy and casting a spell.

  34. OberHerr September 12, 2014 at 10:20 am -      #34

    Just for anyone who doesn’t know how Inheritance magic works, Eragon just has to say what he wants to happen, and it does. There are limits, but dealing with one person….I can’t imagine he’s gonna have much trouble….just suck him into the ground, suspend him using the air, blind him by blocking light from reach his eyes, make him deaf by blocking out the sound…ignite him from within.

    And I’m not really convinced for one that Mistborn Magic = Inheritance Magic.

    But seriously, Inheritance characters are pretty OP for what their universe does. They often are underestimated.

  35. captain napalm September 12, 2014 at 10:21 am -      #35

    There have been quite a few Mistborn matches recently…it’d be pretty cool to see the Lord Ruler, or an Alloy of Law character, get a match.

  36. KalaDellexe September 12, 2014 at 12:30 pm -      #36

    I thought the whole “energy sapping” didn’t work if the target was shielded.

    And if “Mistborn magic =/= Inheritance magic,” then Marsh has free emotion screwing, which Eragon wouldn’t be protected against.

    “blind him by blocking light from reach his eyes,”

    Uh, he has spikes through his eyes already. 😛

    “ignite him from within.”

    that takes a fairly substantial amount of energy, doesn’t it? And Marsh has Feruchemical Healing. What happens if the spell tries to burn up Marsh, but because of his healing, can’t? Does Eragon lose a ton of energy from the spell not being able to complete or can he cut it off?

    “just suck him into the ground, suspend him using the air,”

    These would require Eragon manhandling Marsh from a distance. If I recall correctly, Inheritance telekinetic spells take more energy the further away you are from the target. And Marsh would be actively resisting this, draining energy from Eragon. Steelpushes, Ironpulls, Hulk mode, etc. I’ll post a couple feats in a few hours.

    “There have been quite a few Mistborn matches recently…”

    I can’t find a good match for TLR. It’s either a stomp one way or the other. 😛

  37. Epicazeroth September 12, 2014 at 2:40 pm -      #37

    @Glutinous: “Is their regen able to fix a severed limb? What if the main body loses a part with a spike?”
    Depends. By Compounding, they can theoretically survive decapitation. Miles survived being blown up (like, the explosive was next to/inside of him).
    ===
    @Namer: “there is a distinction between Inheritance’s taking energy and casting a spell.”
    I thought Inheritance Magic was just life force. It’s been a while, but isn’t that why casting spells can kill you?
    ===
    @Ober: “blind him by blocking light from reach his eyes”
    He doesn’t have eyes. He has spikes through his brain.
    ===
    Plus, wouldn’t Marsh just rush Eragon? I don’t think Eragon can fight someone moving at 150 mph at the absolute lowest minimum.

  38. Friendlysociopath September 13, 2014 at 11:58 am -      #38

    Right, dug out the Eragon books (I shit you not, I have chests and chests of books) Is there anything anyone wants me to look up?

    Quote for him producing shockwave

    Pg 533, Eldest
    “He charged Vanir, and the field rang with a furious din as they strove against each other, raging back and forth upon the trampled grass. The force of their blows created gusts of wind that whipped their hair into tangled disarray. Overhead the trees shook and dropped their needless.”

    So that’s pretty strong isn’t it?

    @Epic
    “Plus, wouldn’t Marsh just rush Eragon? I don’t think Eragon can fight someone moving at 150 mph at the absolute lowest minimum.”

    Eragon reacts to arrows without difficulty, grabbing them out of the air, I don’t know if that makes him quite fast enough but the speed difference doesn’t seem as large as it does most of the time around here.

  39. Commander Cross September 13, 2014 at 12:15 pm -      #39

    @FriendlySociopath at #38

    Considering that you got a cited quote even if the exact chapter can’t be recalled*, I’ll admit Not too shabby but despite being worthy of slaying Edward Cullen from twilight and its non-existent sequels, I’ve still seen far better showings from other fighters if we wanna talk Physical Might.(let alone with the Shockwaves.)
    Not talking any FTL Flying Bricks either but that’s neither here nor there.

    As for Punching Through Armor or Jumping Stories straight up?

    Also, Marsh is not stupid enough to allow Eragon to transform Marsh’s spikes into something else, so Marsh won’t hold still because Eragon asked him, end of Chapter!

    1.) (Something the Wikia fails miserably to provide.)

  40. Ellie Williams September 13, 2014 at 12:39 pm -      #40

    Doesn’t Eragon have his weird sword that lights on fire when he says Bresingr and the Ancient Name of the Ancient Language? Also, Eragon has been said able to kill enemies by just shooting a pebble through their foreheads.

  41. Commander Cross September 13, 2014 at 12:45 pm -      #41

    @Ellie Williams at #40

    For all intents and purposes, that’s Bullet Speed in favor of the pebbles being tossed around.
    I’m pretty sure Marsh just dodges said pebble(s) in question and the best Eragon can hope for is to just use the pebbles as distractions to close the distance, but Eragon prefers killing by Supernatural Powers rather than CQC.
    He attempts killing Marsh by direct supernatural powers rather than CQC, then it’ll bite him in the @ss harder than hard!
    Indirect use is another matter entirely though if it crosses Eragon’s mind.

    @Everyone else

    Needless to say, anyone wanna cite out that quote Ellie just mentioned by all means if they got the book on them?

  42. Friendlysociopath September 13, 2014 at 1:32 pm -      #42

    Argh, I’m missing my Brisingr! The other 3 are all here but I can’t find the 3rd book- that makes me really, really sad… it’s not in any of my crates. qq

    In any case, any time Eragon jumps onto Saphira after Eldest is him jumping a couple of stories I think, she’s pretty big. He’s also capable of outright flight.
    Inheritance, pg 355, chapter The Word of a Rider
    “Eragon took half a step forward, as if to stop her, then cursed and growled, ‘Audr!’
    The spell launched him into the sky, like an arrow from a bow”
    He actually flies faster than Saphira, it’s just harder for him to keep that speed up

    The jumping several stories quote is when they’re attacking a city and Eragon just jumps onto the city walls to attack the soldiers… it’s in Brisingr, as is the goddamn armor-punching quote. The armor punching is before he gets his new sword and he doesn’t have a weapon, it actually really messes up his hand but he repairs and fortifies his hand so he can do it whenever he wants.

    Son of a- I think every single quote people want is in the one book I don’t have for some reason! His sword cutting through the reinforced gates is in Brisingir too!
    The Varden tells them they can’t break the magically reinforced gate and he goes “I got this” and cuts it apart

  43. Glutinous-Bicarbonate September 13, 2014 at 3:45 pm -      #43

    On the same vein, in Brisingr, when he all out punches a soldier, Arya comments the only thing that could have believably done that damage (as they’re trying to disguise the killings to avoid anyone realizing Eragon and her were involved) was being crushed by a horse, or a blow from a Kull. Kull being upwards of eight feet tall, and capable (the exceptional ones) of choking house sized mountain bears to death.

    It initially breaks some fingers or something, but after inspiration of dwarven body mods, he uses magic to grow a sort of armor on his hands, allowing him to hit just as hard with no risk of injury.

    Given that Marsh has no eyes and the whole magic thing going for him, it’s pretty moot, but Eragon can turn invisible.

  44. Commander Cross September 13, 2014 at 5:02 pm -      #44

    @FriendlySociopath at #42

    Be glad I’m of the sort to sympathize outright if you don’t have an available copy of some vital novels on you, trust me when I say there be a lot of horse$hit-brained idiots less forgiving than I am.
    Still since I’m cranky* and I’d rather we play it safe now than be sorry later, the mentioning on Eragon Armor-Punching will be hold suspect until someone nabs the quote from that novel if it exists.
    If its nowhere near as precise as you’d think it is, fear not as mis-recollection gets even the best of us.

    As for Outright Flight, I don’t need to look up FTL ‘Lunatics’ to know I’ve seen far quicker, let alone faster flight than what I’ve just seen of Eragon in that quote, and he should be blessed he’s not fighting Lord Vile, Darquesse or Hellsing’s Alucard, at least two out of the 3 can fly and it’d be a matter of if he can last 5 minutes if he’s fighting either.

    It definitely did jack$hit in fighting Rand al’Thor for that matter.

    The above’s digression, neither here nor there though.

    _____

    @Master Sarge at #43

    If I dare ask, what kind of Invisibility beyond ‘basic’ descriptions on that tin are we talking!?

    Sight-Based Invisibility only, or All 5 Senses Invisibility like the kind I’d recall Post-Changes Dresden doing or Darquesse countering!?

    There’s a bloody good difference and while both can be countered with AoE attacks if Marsh has any means on him, the second’s a lot harder to give any confirmed hits against unless you got further counters to that!

    1.) (Because Tomorrow at September 14, 2014, Mystical has to leave her location at Traverse City, Michigan and if she doesn’t get a new place to live at soon, she’s gonna wind up In The Streets and frankly that’s far too much reason to be cranky without Alagaesian ‘Sprinkles’ added to the mix.
    If anyone can look at the map in Michigan for what’s south but not too far from Traverse Town in Michigan, I’d highly appreciate that, believe me.)

  45. Friendlysociopath September 13, 2014 at 8:58 pm -      #45

    “Lord Vile, Darquesse or Hellsing’s Alucard, at least two out of the 3 can fly and it’d be a matter of if he can last 5 minutes if he’s fighting either.
    It definitely did jack$hit in fighting Rand al’Thor for that matter.”

    I see Eragon went up against Rand al’Thor on BankGambling… who thought that was a good idea?

    I believe the invisibility Sarge spoke of is “Garjzla letta” which prevents the light from actually reaching the eyes of his opponent. Might be something else.

    This is a bit of an important point- is Marsh just outright immune to magic or can strong enough magic penetrate his protection?

    Also, is this Eragon at the end of the books? The one who knows the words to convert matter into energy?

  46. Glutinous-Bicarbonate September 13, 2014 at 9:10 pm -      #46

    @Cross
    Oh, sight based. He still leaves footprints/smells and sounds are detectable. It was not much of an idea.

    @soc
    I assume end of books, as it was determined knowing the True Name didn’t give Eragon the ability to take away Marsh’a magic so easily.

    The Nuke spell would be an absolute last resort, unless Eragon somehow possessed enough strength by then to generate a powerful enough shield.

  47. Epicazeroth September 13, 2014 at 9:28 pm -      #47

    @Friendly: “is Marsh just outright immune to magic or can strong enough magic penetrate his protection?”
    Strong enough magic can penetrate his defense. But the only examples are someone using two different types of Magic – one of them from a Shard of the opposite intent – and the Lord Ruler, who’s far beyond almost anybody else on Scadrial. And Marsh is basically the Lord Ruler now – he’s stronger than normal Inquisitors, who were the LR-lite basically.
    ===
    Also, I got Way of Kings. Aside from it being freaking awesome and the lore (mainly the stuff about Hoid and the Cosmere as a whole) being intriguing with how it points towards a larger war in the Heavens; is there anybody who would be a good match for Stormlight characters? I was thinking Szeth or a random Shardbearer (or maybe Dalinar specifically), but Kaladin could as well – though I don’t know his abilities yet cause I haven’t finished WoK yet.

  48. KalaDellexe September 13, 2014 at 10:19 pm -      #48

    “Also, I got Way of Kings. Aside from it being freaking awesome and the lore (mainly the stuff about Hoid and the Cosmere as a whole) being intriguing with how it points towards a larger war in the Heavens; is there anybody who would be a good match for Stormlight characters? I was thinking Szeth or a random Shardbearer (or maybe Dalinar specifically), but Kaladin could as well – though I don’t know his abilities yet cause I haven’t finished WoK yet.”

    The issue with Stormlight characters is that they have Shardblades.

    And you should really read WoR too… Crap goes down.


    “This is a bit of an important point- is Marsh just outright immune to magic or can strong enough magic penetrate his protection?”

    OK. There have only been… two instance of this magic protection being overcome in a person.
    1) The Lord Ruler. He held the power of a god and remade himself to be the most powerful Allomancer to ever exist. Ordinarily, any metal inside of someone’s body are un-Push-or-Pull-able (because of the innate protection), but TLR can Push on the trace metals inside of other characters’ blood. He’s kinda OP.
    2) SPOILERS: When a certain character is literally fueling Allomancy with the body of a god, they get so powerful they can push on metals inside of other characters.

    I don’t think Eragon is powerful enough to overcome the innate Investiture block.


    Also, Marsh “sees” by sensing trace metals in things. This sense is fine enough he can see the trace metals in wood. People he can see by looking at their veins. Invisibility isn’t all that useful.

    Getting Marsh strength quotes, bear with me a bit. I’ve had a lot of school stuff and not a ton of time for reading.

  49. Epicazeroth September 13, 2014 at 10:38 pm -      #49

    @Kala: “The issue with Stormlight characters is that they have Shardblades.”
    I don’t see how this is an issue. Unless there’s a problem that comes up later in WoK. I’m around 20% through, and I’m getting WoR in a few days. Or do you mean because they’re so broken unless you have some type of magic resistance?

  50. KalaDellexe September 13, 2014 at 11:19 pm -      #50

    ” Or do you mean because they’re so broken unless you have some type of magic resistance?”

    This. The way they kill is kinda OP.

  51. Aelfinn September 14, 2014 at 2:18 am -      #51

    Did a quick calc (skip to end): assuming a person of 70 kg pushes on a half-dollar, and assuming that when Sanderson writes “the weight of the body pushes on the coin” he means “the force of gravity on said body” we can see that over one meter, the coin will be moving over Mach 1.

    Over farther distances it will be moving faster. For example, once it gets to ten meters (which probably pushes the range of Allomancers a bit), the coin will have picked up speed to Mach 3.

  52. KalaDellexe September 14, 2014 at 2:43 am -      #52

    With regards to Aelfinn’s post:

    It’s the weight of the person * their strength as an Allomancer. Vin, even though she weighed less than her mentor (Vin is 5′ and slight, Kelsier’s average height and muscular), Vin could still push as hard as him (or harder) because her bloodline was more pure (Allomancy is genetic).

    A more extreme example is that when a Lerasium Mistborn (1st Generation Allomancer) gets into a Pushing match with another Allomancer, the Lerasium Mistborn stumbles slightly and the Allomancer with 1000 years of bloodline degradation is knocked off their feet and falls backward.

    Marsh is about as strong as a Lerasium Mistborn because of his extra Spikes, if I recall correctly. I may be wrong, but I remember a line saying something like “Marsh matched his every Push and Pull with equal strength” or something of that nature.

  53. OberHerr September 14, 2014 at 2:25 pm -      #53

    @KalaD
    “I thought the whole “energy sapping” didn’t work if the target was shielded.”

    Not really. Energy transfer and such are considered a separate little thing from magic in Inheritance.

    “And if “Mistborn magic =/= Inheritance magic,” then Marsh has free emotion screwing, which Eragon wouldn’t be protected against.”

    And Eragon can still kill him with a word. So its not really tradeoff that helps Marsh. And can you give me examples of what Mistborn magic is exactly? I know its based a lot off metals, but I’m not convinced its compatible with Inheritance.

    “Uh, he has spikes through his eyes already. :P”

    So, how does he see with those? I was just giving examples of what he can do to block out his senses.

    “that takes a fairly substantial amount of energy, doesn’t it? And Marsh has Feruchemical Healing. What happens if the spell tries to burn up Marsh, but because of his healing, can’t? Does Eragon lose a ton of energy from the spell not being able to complete or can he cut it off?”

    He always sets his spells up so they can be cut off in case of something like this. And it doesn’t take much energy at all from what I gathered from the series. And how fast is his healing? Because these are “burns through metal” kind of flames, inside his body. Constantly.

    “These would require Eragon manhandling Marsh from a distance. If I recall correctly, Inheritance telekinetic spells take more energy the further away you are from the target. And Marsh would be actively resisting this, draining energy from Eragon. Steelpushes, Ironpulls, Hulk mode, etc. I’ll post a couple feats in a few hours.”

    Doesn’t really matter how he resists, as long a Eragon picks him up by his legs or something.

    As for the whole coin flying thing, Eragon has preset wards that are meant to deflect projectiles away, so as to conserve energy, which is also preset in the wards.

  54. Commander Cross September 14, 2014 at 2:44 pm -      #54

    Tell me, how well can Eragon cast spells if his throat was ripped out or his vocal cords were cut off the minute Marsh tanks direct offenses by powers?
    Also correct me if I’m wrong, Eragon has Iron in his blood-stream, yes?

    Marsh dodges Eragon’s Pebbles and the best Eragon’s Pebble-sized brain can do is to dodge Marsh’s coins, fair enough.

  55. Epicazeroth September 14, 2014 at 2:47 pm -      #55

    @Kala: Also, Shardplate is no joke. A casual kick can send a body 30 feet? And this is a Parshendi body, who should weigh more on average than humans.

    Though, it’s not actually that magical compared to most other universe. Most fantasy magic users could probably tank a few hits from a Shardblade whether by magic wards, armor, or innate power.
    ===
    @Ober: “I know its based a lot off metals, but I’m not convinced its compatible with Inheritance.”
    www.e-reading.me/illustrations/141/141414-table2.jpg
    All the useful info is there; if you have questions about specifics, just ask. And post #14 has a list and link for what abilities Marsh’s Spikes would give him.

    “So, how does he see with those?”
    He can see the metal inside of everything. And he has greatly enhanced smell, hearing, and touch. If Eragon is close, he’d be able to sense his movements without “sight”.

    “And how fast is his healing?”
    With Compounding, he can survive decapitation, flaying, being blown up by a piece of dynamite he’s holding, and being shot. The last is particularly notable; it was done by a Compounder who didn’t have any metalminds left. It was just his stored energy, and he survived a firing squad shooting him 5 times.

    “Eragon has preset wards that are meant to deflect projectiles away, so as to conserve energy”
    But Marsh can spam supersonic coins. How long will his wards hold up?
    ===
    Also, just so everyone knows, I’m really depressed right now. Not like clinically, just normally. If you’re curious why, check Cracked.com; if you’re squeamish you definitely should not.

  56. Friendlysociopath September 14, 2014 at 3:41 pm -      #56

    “Eragon has preset wards that are meant to deflect projectiles away, so as to conserve energy”
    But Marsh can spam supersonic coins. How long will his wards hold up?

    Quite some time I imagine, he deflects rocks slung by siege engines and all it does is make him blink. He wards himself and about 10 other people during battle and battles tend to go on for hours.

    “He can see the metal inside of everything. And he has greatly enhanced smell, hearing, and touch. If Eragon is close, he’d be able to sense his movements without “sight”.”

    How close is that exactly? Football field length? Eragon can use his magic much further than that very early in his training, it takes more effort but it’s not the hardest thing.

    Eragon also can literally steal energy from living things within his thought range or so, bugs, grass, birds- anything living he can draw on. And yes, this is regarded as separate from mind-based shenanigans as he accidentally starts doing this to his teacher, who is warded.

  57. OberHerr September 14, 2014 at 3:42 pm -      #57

    I’ll get back later with some stuff to add, but I didn’t click on that article for a reason. I’ve read enough about the piece of shit industry that is the Sex Trade, and it just….sucks. Its part of the reason I’ve wanted to go into criminal justice after I get out of the military. That and various other reasons.

  58. Friendlysociopath September 14, 2014 at 4:01 pm -      #58

    Might make a vampire vs hunters match when new Dracula movie comes out. Working on a Demons vs Demon Hunters match now- any suggestions?



    Looks decent enough
    Edit: Whoops, way off topic

  59. Glutinous-Bicarbonate September 14, 2014 at 4:10 pm -      #59

    Well…if his throat was ripped out that would probably mean death. There is wordless magic though.

  60. Epicazeroth September 14, 2014 at 4:13 pm -      #60

    @Friendly: “How close is that exactly?”
    For less conventional means, he’d have to be in melee range. Otherwise, it’s approximately normal sight range, but he can “see” through walls.

    “he deflects rocks slung by siege engines and all it does is make him blink.”
    When? I kinda doubt that there are catapults hitting him or his friends with any frequency. How big are these rocks, and what type of siege engine?

  61. Commander Cross September 14, 2014 at 4:14 pm -      #61

    @FriendlySociopath at #58

    I’ve Got to go watch that movie at some point, but As for Vamp-Hunters who can fight without being sitting ducks regardless, that’s a good question to ask.
    I might wonder if Hellsing’s Alucard might be included because if its a yes, Pre-Schrodigner or Post-Schrodinger and if Pre-Schrodinger, can we include Lord Vile from The World of Skulduggery Pleasant by all means?

    @Master Sarge at #59

    Just to be sure, how often does Eragon remember to do this?

    Does he remember often enough to do this at the drop of a hat, or is most of his spell-casting locked to PIS to being required to utter aloud, ‘on-screen’ at pages?*

    1.) (I’ve seen the latter more times than I’d want to see, frankly.)

  62. Friendlysociopath September 14, 2014 at 4:42 pm -      #62

    “When? I kinda doubt that there are catapults hitting him or his friends with any frequency. How big are these rocks, and what type of siege engine?”

    It only happens once, on the Burning Plains battle, (I mean if there is a giant fire-breathing dragon you do tend to focus your firepower at it) I believe they’re traditional catapults at worst or trebuchets at best. Eragon disables them by mind-raping guards through their mental shielding. The machines are disabled through cutting ropes, causing the ‘arm’ to fly off.

    “@Master Sarge at #59
    Just to be sure, how often does Eragon remember to do this?
    Does he remember often enough to do this at the drop of a hat, or is most of his spell-casting locked to PIS to being required to utter aloud, ‘on-screen’ at pages?”

    He remembers it often, it’s just risky for most magic because then you don’t have relatively focused magic. Since there’s nothing else here it would actually be pretty ideal.

    Example given in the book: Say you want to light a door on fire, you use the magic fire and a buddy of yours walks into the room and you look at him.
    WITH the Ancient Language, the door would still burst into flames because that was your target and the Ancient Language enforces the rules on the magic, you turning your attention doesn’t matter.
    WITHOUT the Ancient Language your attention turned to your buddy and now he’s on fire.

  63. KalaDellexe September 14, 2014 at 4:55 pm -      #63

    EXPLANATION OF MAGIC.

    Allomancy operates by “burning” metals to trigger Allomantic powers. Note that the metal is not actually “burned” for power, but that it is vaporized as a side effect of having the raw power of creation channeled through it. The molecular structure of the metal focuses this raw, unshaped power into specific forms – Allomancy. Allomancy can be performed without metals, but is very difficult and often dangerous to the health of the user (instead of the metals being vaporized, you vaporize).

    Feruchemy operates by using metals to store attributes (strength, speed, etc) and later draw them back out. Instead of the metal being used as a gateway to focus the powers of creation, the metal becomes “charged” with the certain attribute.


    “So, how does he see with those? I was just giving examples of what he can do to block out his senses.”

    Post #48


    “How close is that exactly? Football field length? Eragon can use his magic much further than that very early in his training, it takes more effort but it’s not the hardest thing.”

    He can see across a city with his Allomantic vision. So, bigger than a football field.

    “Doesn’t really matter how he resists, as long a Eragon picks him up by his legs or something.”

    It’s going to be constantly draining him as this happens, and Eragon doesn’t have all his gems with him. He either lets go or passes out. And it’ll drain him faster the further away he is, if I recall how Inheritance magic works right.


    “Not really. Energy transfer and such are considered a separate little thing from magic in Inheritance.”

    According to the wiki (I know. Wikis) someone with mental training can resist it. Marsh resisted the will of a god for a short time. IF we go with EC (some people might have an issue with it, but Mistborn magic isn’t just “burn metal to get power” it’s “focus power of creation/life force through certain form to achieve desired effect.”) then Marsh also has Allomantic Copper, which makes him more resistant to mental effects.

  64. Friendlysociopath September 14, 2014 at 5:26 pm -      #64

    Just dropping by one last time before I head out

    “It’s going to be constantly draining him as this happens, and Eragon doesn’t have all his gems with him. He either lets go or passes out. And it’ll drain him faster the further away he is, if I recall how Inheritance magic works right.”

    Eragon has massive reserves of magic without his gems, the gems are just extra. Suspending a man in the air, even with magic resistance, wouldn’t KO Eragon immediately. And if he can immobilize Marsh, the battle won’t be going on much longer past that.
    Think of Eragon as a battery, he has his base ‘charge’, however, he can power the gems with their own ‘charge’ that he can draw upon at will. So the battery can have batteries. His own reserves are far from small, the gems are just really handy since he can load them beforehand.

    “According to the wiki (I know. Wikis) someone with mental training can resist it.”

    True. In order to drain the energy you must be able to make contact with the being’s mind.

    The stickler about EC is that if we accept that the magics can interact then there is no reason the True Name of Magic wouldn’t stop Marsh. Magic in Eragon isn’t just magic words, the words shape the energy of the world via thought- that’s why it’s possible to cast spells without speaking. If the magic systems don’t interact, Marsh has no defense to any of Eragonss attacks while Eragon’s defenses would hold up fine.

  65. Epicazeroth September 14, 2014 at 5:30 pm -      #65

    @Friendly: Well Marsh can attack without moving. Pushing and Pulling requires no movement.

  66. KalaDellexe September 14, 2014 at 6:09 pm -      #66

    “The stickler about EC is that if we accept that the magics can interact then there is no reason the True Name of Magic wouldn’t stop Marsh. Magic in Eragon isn’t just magic words, the words shape the energy of the world via thought- that’s why it’s possible to cast spells without speaking. If the magic systems don’t interact, Marsh has no defense to any of Eragonss attacks while Eragon’s defenses would hold up fine.”

    I thought it was the True Name of the Ancient Language that he learned, not the name of Magic itself. It would have no effect on Marsh’s magic if this is the case, because Marsh’s magic is not conducted using the Ancient Language as a focus.

  67. KalaDellexe September 14, 2014 at 11:19 pm -      #67

    Sorry for the double post.
    I forgot to say, thank you Admin for posting my match! It’s much appreciated.


    Anyways, moving on.

    IF WE HAVE EC:

    Eragon’s Sword (Brisingr) is un-Push-or-Pull-able because it is Invested.

    Eragon’s mental wards would likely work against Marsh’s emotional Allomancy, rendering it ineffective.

    Eragon has to overcome Marsh’s innate Investiture in order to directly affect him.

    Marsh can sense Eragon’s magic use.

    There’s probably other things, but these are the basic ones I’ve come up with.


    IF WE DON’T HAVE EC:

    Marsh’s Emotional Allomancy will bypass Eragon’s defences.

    Eragon does not have to overcome Marsh’s innate Investiture.

    Eragon’s sword is fair game for Pushing and Pulling.

    Marsh could not sense Eragon’s magic.


    It’s detrimental to both either way.
    At first glance they look completely different, but they actually both operate on similar principles. Both channel life force/power of creation into specific forms by using foci (Metals and the Ancient Language). The foci is not expressly necessary, but makes the process safer and easier upon the user. It can still be debated whether or not they have EC, if someone REALLY wants there to be EC/No EC. I’m mostly fine either way, though I’d prefer EC because it makes the most sense to me.

  68. OberHerr September 15, 2014 at 12:03 am -      #68

    How the magic works is the amount of energy required to do the task through magic is used. So if I wanted to pinch a vein in your head with magic, it wouldn’t require much energy, but would still kill you. That’s what the words of death are for, a quick, easy, and cost efficient way to kill off entire armies if unshielded. But things like compressing their heart and or igniting their blood, or basically anything you can think of is totally an option. WoD are just the simplest way.

    Which is why, unless Marsh is unreasonably heavy, lifting him isn’t gonna be hard. Unenhanced Eragon, who was VASTLY weaker I might add, managed to launch something like eight or ten Urgals, which are six to seven feet tall low end, and several hundred pounds, into and above the tree tops.

    This almost killed him granted, but his enhanced self is much stronger, and knowledgeable. Lifting Marsh isn’t gonna be a problem. The only time distance really starts mattering is farther than the eye can see.

    And I kind need to know what could kill Marsh. Like what the scale would have to be, and what he’s weak too.

    Also, how strong is his mind protection? Because even if its tough, he’s gonna be distracted by Eragon’s constant bombardment of his mind.

    And finally….why doesn’t Eragon get any of his standard equipment gems? He always has them in one form or another, whether its on his sword, or his ring. He has a ring that, while depleted from clearing out rubble, was at full strength capable of leveling a fortress with one word as he put it. Which even just a bit of that seems overkill on Marsh, especially if its used surgically.

  69. Commander Cross September 15, 2014 at 12:13 am -      #69

    @OberHerr

    In English, please!?

    All I got is Eragon’s head being punched clean off, again in here.

    The rest was just yawn-worthy.

    Post #68 had me fall asleep.

    Eragon ought to be glad he’s not fighting another Rand-Tier opponent, or I’d lose count of how many times the head-punching must start.

  70. Friendlysociopath September 15, 2014 at 12:23 am -      #70

    “All I got is Eragon’s head being punched clean off, again in here.
    The rest was just yawn-worthy.”

    Wow, I’ll give you credit for the proofs you’ve provided supporting that, I’ll even bold it for you.
    Facts presented by Commander Cross: 0

  71. KalaDellexe September 15, 2014 at 12:36 am -      #71

    “And finally….why doesn’t Eragon get any of his standard equipment gems?”

    Mainly to avoid the “LOL OVERKILL” that would happen if he had a bunch of fully charged gems. It’s kinda boring to debate, eh?


    “Also, how strong is his mind protection? Because even if its tough, he’s gonna be distracted by Eragon’s constant bombardment of his mind.”

    Well, he resisted the will of Ruin for a time, despite being a Hemalurgic construct. Ruin is, well, Ruin. The primal force that wants to reduce everything to its base form. He resisted the will of Ruin for a short time. Unless Eragon is a planet-tossing god of destruction I don’t think he can do too much to Marsh’s mind.


    “And I kind need to know what could kill Marsh. Like what the scale would have to be, and what he’s weak too.”

    Seperating his head from his body, removal of enough Spikes, complete destruction of his body, stuff like that.


    “Which is why, unless Marsh is unreasonably heavy,”

    *Sadistic grin*
    Marsh has the power of Feruchemical Iron, which allows him to store and use Mass. He can become PRETTY heavy.


    And I’m just wondering how much energy it’d take to kill Marsh from range when he’s constantly healing. How does Eragon usually kill from range (without WoD)? It’s been awhile since I read the series.

  72. Commander Cross September 15, 2014 at 1:23 am -      #72

    @Friendlysociopath at #70

    I see you weren’t there when Sword of Truth Wankage was more commonplace. -_-

    Geez, well no matter, I’m no saint at reaching Bottom-lines on-time but I’d like to think I try harder than this, half the time.

    Also, wouldn’t activating Brisingr burn out Eragon’s Energy which he needs to cast spells with?
    I recall someone mentioning that somewhere.

    Also, is Marsh’s Spikes part of the Natural Order of things to Alagaesia for that matter?

    I’ve seen Ponies from My Little Pony who are wittier than Eragon with how to deal with Magic in general for what it’s worth*. -___-

    Also, can Eragon beat Marsh in learning how to dance Gangnam Style for that matter?

    Marsh seems like a dude willing to learn how to dance that style.

    @Kaladin at #71

    Is Marsh’s regeneration nearly-as-effective as some of the versions of Wolverine from Marvel Comics at his finest?
    At least Movie/Live Action!-Wolverine by chance?
    If it’s anywhere near even Live-Action!- Wolverine’s level, it expands on Marsh’s breathing room quite a bit.

    1.) (The Flight display is cool though, but like I’ve said, I’ve seen better along with worse.)

  73. Friendlysociopath September 15, 2014 at 10:39 am -      #73

    “Also, wouldn’t activating Brisingr burn out Eragon’s Energy which he needs to cast spells with?”

    It costs energy sure, but Eragon doesn’t lose all of his energy that fast- I don’t know where people got this idea that any sustained magic-use will drain Eragon almost instantly. He uses the gems because it’s better to have extra energy than less, not because his own energy reserves suck.

    Let me explain WHY Eragon has massive reserves of magic, he wards: himself, Saphira, Arya, Nasuada, Roran and Orik- at minimum. Magic ward(s), physical ward(s), multiple wards per person.
    Why is that impressive? Because every, single, time they’re hit by a sword, a fist, an arrow, or anything, that drains energy from Eragon. Eragon keeps these wards up for hours, he starts removing them as the battle progresses, true, but he has very large reserves on his own without the gems. He isn’t going to run dry in this one battle- every time he starts running out of energy is literally after hours of prolonged combat.

    “And I’m just wondering how much energy it’d take to kill Marsh from range when he’s constantly healing. How does Eragon usually kill from range (without WoD)? It’s been awhile since I read the series.”

    He’s done a few different things; he’s stopped a man’s heart before (Not a WoD either); he has also exhibited the ability to snap bones, and there’s always just elemental shenanigans, he just has to say ‘Fire’ and he can manipulate the Fire spell at will, Wall of Fire, Fireball, combustion, etc. He can do this with all of his spells.

    “*Sadistic grin*
    Marsh has the power of Feruchemical Iron, which allows him to store and use Mass. He can become PRETTY heavy.”

    Pretty much what I thought (INcluding grin), Eragon has some pretty decent lifting feats- how heavy has Marsh managed to get himself?

  74. Epicazeroth September 15, 2014 at 2:44 pm -      #74

    @Friendly: “he wards: himself, Saphira, Arya, Nasuada, Roran and Orik- at minimum. Magic ward(s), physical ward(s), multiple wards per person.”
    Why is this a flawed argument?
    1) Arya already has her own wards.
    2) He uses Saphira’s energy to fuel his own magic.
    3) His wards are set for optimal efficiency. They deflect blows rather than stops them.
    4) He knows his friends have armor, weapons, and often magic. He doesn’t block every little punch. He tries to protect them from things they need protection from. Enemy mages, fatal wounds, etc.
    5) It doesn’t take a lot of energy to block normal attacks. Blocking hundreds of sword slashes – assuming hundreds get through his friends physically defending themselves.

    “how heavy has Marsh managed to get himself?”
    There’s no limit to the amount he can draw. But he has to store first; that’s what has a limit.

  75. Friendlysociopath September 15, 2014 at 3:02 pm -      #75

    Ah Epic, allow me to refute you.
    “1) Arya already has her own wards”

    This does not stop him from doing it, he mentions that he wards Arya, often. The puppy love is annoying and irrational, but it’s there.

    “2) He uses Saphira’s energy to fuel his own magic.”

    On occasion, not always; he mentions when he draws on her stores, it’s not something he does every time.

    “3) His wards are set for optimal efficiency. They deflect blows rather than stops them.”

    Ah- no, that’s flat-out wrong. Almost every time we see his wards in action it is specifically mentioned that the attack stops dead. Why would the wards he give others be any different?

    “4) He knows his friends have armor, weapons, and often magic. He doesn’t block every little punch. He tries to protect them from things they need protection from. Enemy mages, fatal wounds, etc.”

    You want to give some proof for that?

    “5) It doesn’t take a lot of energy to block normal attacks. Blocking hundreds of sword slashes – assuming hundreds get through his friends physically defending themselves.”

    It’s war, stuff gets through- 4 out of those 6 people are inferior fighters to Eragon, and even Eragon himself and Arya get hurt.

  76. Epicazeroth September 15, 2014 at 3:12 pm -      #76

    @Friendly: That wasn’t a refutation.

    “he mentions that he wards Arya, often”
    But it means that his wards are weaker, and sharing the load with her own wards.

    “On occasion, not always”
    OK. But that doesn’t refute my point.

    “You want to give some proof for that?”
    Common sense? You made a claim first, burden of proof is on you anyway. And it’s stupid to put a ward that makes their armor redundant.

    “It’s war, stuff gets through”
    Yeah. But they’re all really good fighters so stuff rarely gets through. And I’m pretty sure Roran at least has better fighting feats than him. Orik’s also been fighting for far longer than Eragon. And when did Nasuada fight?

  77. Commander Cross September 15, 2014 at 3:13 pm -      #77

    @FriendlySociopath at #73

    (Pseudo-Sadistic Grin active. 😈 )

    At least I know you’re talking Modern-Day English, with or without TV Troper* Dialects included.

    I’ve seen greater displays of Magical Reserves from Post-Changes Dresden to say nothing of Darquesse, McCoy or Lord Vile, but frankly if what you’re saying’s true and 100% accurate, it can’t be too shabby for him, to say the least.

    I’m gonna try to ease up on Eragon for now until further notice, just don’t assume Pebbles thrown by Eragon will Auto-end this fight before anything happens, you hear me?

    1.) (Go visit TV Tropes and you’ll understand.)

  78. Friendlysociopath September 15, 2014 at 3:35 pm -      #78

    I considered it refuting (shrug).

    “But it means that his wards are weaker, and sharing the load with her own wards.”
    That’s… iffy, I don’t really know how it works out energy-wise. I also don’t know if Arya realizes Eragon wards her, I don’t think he tells her he does.

    “OK. But that doesn’t refute my point.”
    He mentions when he’s drawing on her power, if he doesn’t mention drawing from her, I can safely assume he’s using his own power.

    “Common sense? You made a claim first, burden of proof is on you anyway. And it’s stupid to put a ward that makes their armor redundant.”

    Not really, armor sucks, every blow he stops with magic is one less blow that hits the armor- which has a very finite amount of damage it can take. I’m at college for 12 hour stints to save gas, when I get home I’ll gladly give you plenty of quotes that specifically mention the attacks stopping rather than being deflected.

    “Yeah. But they’re all really good fighters so stuff rarely gets through. And I’m pretty sure Roran at least has better fighting feats than him. Orik’s also been fighting for far longer than Eragon. And when did Nasuada fight?”

    Nasuada fights during the Burning Plains battle, I’m assuming not on the front lines like everyone else but she does fight. The others all fight in the front lines, they get hit, often. Once the wards go down they do rely on armor, but they get hit.

  79. Glutinous-Bicarbonate September 15, 2014 at 4:10 pm -      #79

    Roran’s like, absurdly strong. For being a “normal” human, he’s pretty much certainly up there with the guys who wield magic and ride dragons for kill counts.

    One battle he goes all 300 Spartans mode and kills just under two hundred enemy soldiers by himself after obtaining a good defensible position.

    After which he is whipped for earlier insubordination…Yeah.

  80. KalaDellexe September 15, 2014 at 4:36 pm -      #80

    “Why is that impressive? Because every, single, time they’re hit by a sword, a fist, an arrow, or anything, that drains energy from Eragon. Eragon keeps these wards up for hours, he starts removing them as the battle progresses, true, but he has very large reserves on his own without the gems. He isn’t going to run dry in this one battle- every time he starts running out of energy is literally after hours of prolonged combat.”

    I thought that these were including his gems that he stored tons of strength in? I distinctly recall a couple scenes where he sits by the butcher’s tent in between battles to recharge his gems that he had drained in the battle beforehand. This is also including the power he’s passively taking from Saphira and the other dragon’s heart. And even if he’s not using these sources to directly fuel himself, he still has to recharge with the gems/dragons rather often.


    “how heavy has Marsh managed to get himself?”

    A Feruchemist who couldn’t Compound (much weaker than Marsh) could become heavier than a large mansion. I’ll post the exact wording when I get back home.


    Quote I found about Marsh’s healing: Page 587/588 Hero of Ages
    “And she Duralumin-Pushed it directly into his forehead… …ripping through his head and passing out the other side.”
    “She looked down with shock as Marsh climbed to his knees. She had sliced through his brain itself, but the amazing Inquisitor healing powers seemed to be able to deal with even that.”



    Page 591 of Hero of Ages – A bit about Marsh’s mental resilience. CONTEXT: Hemalurgy is Ruin’s magic, and Marsh, being a Hemalurgic construct, is much more suceptible to Ruin’s influence than others.

    “Inquisitors had little chance of resisting Ruin. They had more Spikes than any other of his Hemalurgic creations, and that put them completely under his domination.
    Yes, it would have taken a man of supreme will to resist Ruin even slightly while bearing the Spikes of an Inquisitor.” Hero of Ages epigraph

  81. Friendlysociopath September 15, 2014 at 5:10 pm -      #81

    “I thought that these were including his gems that he stored tons of strength in? I distinctly recall a couple scenes where he sits by the butcher’s tent in between battles to recharge his gems that he had drained in the battle beforehand. This is also including the power he’s passively taking from Saphira and the other dragon’s heart. And even if he’s not using these sources to directly fuel himself, he still has to recharge with the gems/dragons rather often.”

    He does use them a lot, yeah, but the energy from the animals is described to be very little in the novels, he barely lifted an orb of water for a second using animal energy.

    Why does Eragon keep getting put into matches he has little chance in btw? This Marsh looks to be well out of his league, uber-healing, innate magic resistance- and Eragon isn’t even allowed his gems. Although his sword can have energy stored in it, so there is that.

  82. Commander Cross September 15, 2014 at 6:43 pm -      #82

    @FriendlySociopath at #81

    My shot in the dark says it’s because they detest the idea of Eragon or Inheritance getting the Sword of Truth Treatment of being wanked outright.

    If you don’t get what I mean, why not be my guest and read on Rand al’Thor vs Richard Rahl sometime if you wanna see what I mean? 😉

    ___

    @Kaladin at #80

    I daresay this match is proving to actually be interesting to say the least.
    You need a pat on the back for congrats if anything.

  83. Epicazeroth September 15, 2014 at 8:28 pm -      #83

    @Friendly: “That’s… iffy, I don’t really know how it works out energy-wise. I also don’t know if Arya realizes Eragon wards her, I don’t think he tells her he does.”
    1) I meant that if she’s warding herself, he’d know that. So he wouldn’t waste energy.
    2) It also means that her wards would absorb some of the energy. And she’s stronger than him for a large part of the series; her wards would absorb more.
    3) Arya would notice if her wards aren’t activating when she gets hit. So his can’t be fully blocking hers, or she at least knows he’s warding her.

    The rest are valid points. But you still made the claim first, so you’re going to need to prove his wards stop everything and go before the armor.

    “but the energy from the animals is described to be very little”
    But he took energy from like all the animals killed in the camp. He literally sat next to the slaughterhouse all day stealing energy as they died.
    ===
    @Glutinous: “One battle he goes all 300 Spartans mode and kills just under two hundred enemy soldiers by himself after obtaining a good defensible position.”
    Fighting uphill. With a hammer. Like, a carpenter’s hammer – not a warhammer.
    ===
    Off-topic: Does anybody know how much force it takes to kick 200 lbs 30 feet? I’m trying to see how a Shardbearer stacks up against other fantasy characters.

    If Eragon is losing against Marsh, he’d probably be destroyed by a Shardbearer. Though, come to think of it, they’re much less hax than Marsh; it’s mostly raw power. Sanderson stated that Roshar and Sel are throwing around much higher amounts of magic than Nalthis or Scadrial. Though a Shardbearer/Szeth/Kaladin is probably more closely matched with Eragon as they have more magic power but less hax. Szeth may be a bit much, and Kaladin has Gravitation as well, so he might lose anyway.

    Wow, Stormlight characters are actually pretty high up now that I think about it. Even with EC, probably only other high-tier characters could fairly fight them within fantasy. I could be wrong or underestimating other series’ though.

  84. Glutinous-Bicarbonate September 15, 2014 at 8:40 pm -      #84

    The real problem with the stealing energy from dying animals thing was that he literally had to enter the mind of each and feel the pain and fear before they entered oblivion. It’s not pretty, and he did it only long enough to extract the minimum of power he’d need to partially replenish the belt.

  85. KalaDellexe September 15, 2014 at 9:27 pm -      #85

    “Wow, Stormlight characters are actually pretty high up now that I think about it. Even with EC, probably only other high-tier characters could fairly fight them within fantasy. I could be wrong or underestimating other series’ though.”

    Well, guy in the fantasy equivalent of power-armour, with a sword that can kill pretty much everything instantly (and remove the powers of what it doesn’t), and might be able to either fly, skate as if the ground were ice, create illusions, turn you into smoke, create explosions, create magic traps, etc.

    Yeah. Stormlight Characters are kinda OP.


    “Why does Eragon keep getting put into matches he has little chance in btw? This Marsh looks to be well out of his league, uber-healing, innate magic resistance- and Eragon isn’t even allowed his gems. Although his sword can have energy stored in it, so there is that.”

    I must say, I underestimated Marsh’s abilities to counter Eragon’s magic. I probably shouldn’t have made the distinction that he couldn’t have his gems, as they’re mostly drained anyways by the end of the series. Igniting the air around Marsh MIGHT be enough to kill him eventually, but it’d take awhile to drain Marsh’s health reserves. If he can get in close and cut his head off/his torso in half and separate the upper Spikes from the lower Spikes.

    Oh yeah, pulling out an eye-Spike won’t kill Marsh, I just reread part of the final fight scene in Hero of Ages and Vin pulls out one Inquisitor’s eye Spike. It didn’t kill it, at least not immediately.

  86. Friendlysociopath September 16, 2014 at 2:06 pm -      #86

    The problem I’m encountering is that, from Book 2 onwards, Eragon almost always has gems or Saphira with him. I don’t know how much energy he has on his own- it never really happens after a certain point. And every case of him fighting a decent opponent tends to take place after hours of battle, so he has a lot less energy for the fight.

    For physical abilities he’s decent for Fantasy characters, the shockwaves feat puts him at good fighting speeds, his sword will cut through physical and magical defenses when activated. Eragon’s best chance seems to be to reach Marsh and kill him the mundane way. At least Eragon has experience with people that won’t die from regular wounds.

  87. Commander Cross September 16, 2014 at 2:23 pm -      #87

    I’ve still seen faster fighting speeds, the shockwaves bit might qualify somewhat on speeds, but it qualifies more on physical might.

    Also, is that why we can’t gauge Eragon’s natural reserves after Eldest?

  88. Glutinous-Bicarbonate September 16, 2014 at 3:33 pm -      #88

    One thing that ought to have been reasonable would be giving Eragon a charged Aren (Brom’s ring). It had a considerable reserve of power that could last him a prolonged engagement if he chose to.

  89. Epicazeroth September 16, 2014 at 5:54 pm -      #89

    @Glutinous: Didn’t Eragon say he could break a mountain with Aren or something? That’s a bit much.
    ===
    @Kala: Yeah, you should’ve given him his belt at least.

    And I just meant a Shardbearer. Not a Knight Radiant or one of the main characters. Though I feel like Kaladin/Szeth/Dalinar vs Richard Rahl/Rand al’Thor could be interesting. Though, from what I’ve read here, Rand is like universal by the end so…

  90. Friendlysociopath September 16, 2014 at 6:16 pm -      #90

    @Commander
    “Also, is that why we can’t gauge Eragon’s natural reserves after Eldest?”

    Pretty much, yeah. His ‘natural reserves’ are barely ever mentioned to start with, then it goes to him using energy from the gems, Saphira, or the dragon hearts for every little thing. Although he apparently can gift people with superpowers so that’s… just weird… I’m not going into that one.

    @Epic
    “And I just meant a Shardbearer. Not a Knight Radiant or one of the main characters. Though I feel like Kaladin/Szeth/Dalinar vs Richard Rahl/Rand al’Thor could be interesting. Though, from what I’ve read here, Rand is like universal by the end so…”

    Scenario reigns supreme, just call for non-universal Rand 😀

  91. Commander Cross September 16, 2014 at 8:00 pm -      #91

    @Friendlysociopath at #90

    I still suspect that Pre-Schrodinger Alucard, Post-Changes Dresden, Darquesse and Lord Vile have far greater personal reserves and each of them still wipe Eragon across the floor in 1-vs-1, and except
    for Post-Changes Dresden* or maybe Post-Schrodinger Alucard, none of them are touching Rand al’Thor in 1-vs-1, either.

    That last part kind of sounds like Naruto* or Argeddion from The World of Skulduggery Pleasant, by Derek Landy doesn’t it?

    ____

    Also if anyone opts for Richard Rahl, Brace yourself for Sword of Truth/Rahl Wankage at work! 😀

    1.) (IF The Apocalyptic Trilogy happens and Post-Changes Dresden’s up there with a few other people I’d mention in the latest group fight before the Blackwatch one.)

    2.) (Fitting, I already noted times beyond counting on the common grounds Naruto and Inheritance share with each other.)

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