Team Anime Comics Vs Team Video Game Books

Team Anime Comics Vs Team Video Game Books

Brought to you by sadot06

Team Anime Comics:
Kaguya Otsutsuki (Naruto)
Sosuke Aizen (Bleach)
Killy (Blame!)
Bills (Dragon Ball Z)
Spawn
Ghost Rider (Marvel)
Doctor Fate (DC Comics)
Martian Manhunter

Going up against

Team Video Game Books:

God Emperor of Mankind (Warhammer 40K)
Richard Rahl (Sword of Truth)
Rand al’ Thor (Wheel of Time)
Darth Nihilus (Star Wars)
Bayonetta
Yasha (Asura’s Wrath)
Shadow the Hedgehog
Overlord Laharl (Disgaea)

Fight takes place in Mordor during the events of the third Lord of the Rings film. The starting point for both teams are the Mountains of Shadow. The first to secure the One Ring and return to the Mountains of Shadow wins for their team.

The One Ring will be defended by:

World War Hulk

Doomsday

Sinestro

Most recent incarnations.

Shadow can transform into his Super form three times.

Time can be slowed but not fully or nearly stopped.

Who wins?

Related Posts:



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620 Comments on "Team Anime Comics Vs Team Video Game Books"

  1. Namer September 3, 2014 at 1:30 pm -      #401

    It doesn’t matter how impressive they look. We know what Strange is capable of, and he was pissed off and had no reason to be holding back.
    Just because he wasn’t busting planets, doesn’t mean the blasts were unimpressive. The blasts appearance is a non factor.

    Ah. ‘kay.

    Are you saying Laharl ALWAYS moves massively ftl? His taunts his enemies, and gets to their faces, from what i can see.
    .
    No, they said Laharl could ram GR at those speeds, which you countered with GR tagging Thor who has the capability to move at those speeds at time, and then I disputed you.

  2. Jake_Uzumaki September 3, 2014 at 1:44 pm -      #402

    That said…if Laharl rams a kaiju sized GR would he just be burnt up by the Hellfire that makes up the Rider’s body?

  3. Ragnorke September 3, 2014 at 2:25 pm -      #403

    “No, they said Laharl could ram GR at those speeds,”

    The thing is, ramming GR at those speeds won’t be enough. HE can tank much MUCH more than that.
    And as Jake said, the hellfire would just kill Laharl.

    The only reason Thor doesn’t die to hellfire is because his soul has some form of divine protection. Even Mephisto wasn’t capable of harming Thors soul.
    Laharl has no such protection that i’m aware of.

  4. Jake_Uzumaki September 3, 2014 at 2:33 pm -      #404

    I think it also depends on how the Rider is using the flames…I think he can control if they burn the soul the body or both but not sure. Thor is…for the most part a nice guy so with neither Blaze or Zarathos have a reason to turn him into fried chicken and Blaze was the one in control in that scan with him giant anyway.
    But yeah…nobody here is going to have that kind of protection. Even if Laharl gets a chance to blitze Blaze it would just do exactly what Hulk or Strange overpowering Blaze did…make Zarathos go ape shit.

  5. Ragnorke September 3, 2014 at 2:36 pm -      #405

    @jake
    Yea, he can. Hellfire has had a lot of different effects.

  6. Friendlysociopath September 3, 2014 at 2:37 pm -      #406

    “Doubt Laharl has that kind of force. Zarathos > your average Galactus.”

    Star-buster, that’s a lot of strength. Also, would GR unleash Zarathos right off the bat?

    “That said…if Laharl rams a kaiju sized GR would he just be burnt up by the Hellfire that makes up the Rider’s body?”

    Depends, is Hellfire a NLF of death like Balefire or do we actually have some sort of scale for it?

    Demons in Disgaea tank planet shattering hits like they’re nothing- several monsters like Ghosts and Death also have attacks that target the soul directly, Laharl laughs those off (a shitty evil laugh but a laugh nonetheless).
    If we consider that he can tank the temperature of stars as he destroys them, I don’t think heat-based attacks will do too much damage.

  7. Ragnorke September 3, 2014 at 2:42 pm -      #407

    “would GR unleash Zarathos right off the bat?”

    As far as i know, debating rules state that characters always try their best to achieve the match goals. Zarathos is literally what the GR is, so he will want victory just as badly as Blaze.

    “Depends, is Hellfire a NLF of death like Balefire or do we actually have some sort of scale for it?”

    If the character has no special defenses for his soul, then there’s no reason for him not to die.

    “several monsters like Ghosts and Death also have attacks that target the soul directly, Laharl laughs those off”

    Proof that they attack a targets soul please.

    “If we consider that he can tank the temperature of stars as he destroys them, I don’t think heat-based attacks will do too much damage.”

    Hellfire isn’t just heat based, it’s soul based.

    “Demons in Disgaea tank planet shattering hits like they’re nothing”

    As i said, Zarathos > Average Galactus due to powerscaling.
    Starving Galactus has destroyed 3 solar systems in a single hit.

  8. Ragnorke September 3, 2014 at 2:52 pm -      #408

    A bit of powerscaling for Galactus:
    Odin is a casual galaxy buster, meaning his attacks can be so powerful that they wipe out far away galaxies without having to directly interact with them.
    Odin is almost always shown to lose against Galactus.

  9. Friendlysociopath September 3, 2014 at 3:01 pm -      #409

    “Proof that they attack a targets soul please.”


    11:54 is where the Death powers start, these attacks are described as attacking the soul, it’s represented in-game by them not only harming your health but your SP as well.

    Edit: I wish there was a damn video of the monster moves in English, the game got a fricking NA release with everything in English, why not upload it?

  10. The Amazing Dualgunner September 3, 2014 at 3:07 pm -      #410

    Not sure what all has been brought up in the match yet, but I will sort of vouch Laharl here for a bit.

    BankGambling.wikia.com/wiki/Overlord_Laharl
    This is our wiki’s page on him and his powers.

    At 4:20s, we see Axel do the move called Big Bang; not only is Laharl a much higher tier character than Axel, but it is a power Laharl has in the same game (same effect too; I’d get a vid of it but I don’t know how to make one).

    As for Hellfire harming Laharl, again I haven’t read the thread, may already have been proven wrong, but one of his signature moves “Blazing Knuckle” is described: “Lay the smackdown with a hellfire infused fist!”
    YMMV with that but I figured I’d put it out there.

  11. Ragnorke September 3, 2014 at 3:27 pm -      #411

    “it’s represented in-game by them not only harming your health but your SP as well.”

    I’m assuming SP stands for Soul Points?

    “At 4:20s, we see Axel do the move called Big Bang;”

    It’s hard to take that seriously, considering everything is still perfectly intact when he gets back.
    From what i can see, the only thing the attack does is create a giant flash of light. That’s it. Nothing else.
    It doesn’t appear to be anywhere near solar busting, or even planet busting for that matter.

    However, i’m guessing there’s some sort of lore that supports Laharl actually being a solar buster? If so, i would like to see it.

    Also, is this planet actually earth? meaning… is that Solar System that we see in the game the Milky way?
    If not, is there anyway to prove how far the distance traveled actually is?

    Btw, Pluto is only 4 lighthours from earth. That feat is that video (which took about 5 seconds?), had him travel to approximately pluto and back.
    That’s only 5,760 times the speed of light.
    I know it’s still incredibly fast, but it’s nothing compared to the speed Thor, Dr. Strange, & Mephisto can move at. (people who GR casually beats)

  12. The Amazing Dualgunner September 3, 2014 at 3:36 pm -      #412

    “That’s only 5,760 times the speed of light.”
    Let’s just put what we said in context here. Only. Fiction, you bastard, breaking the laws of physics so bad that we can say stuff like this. XD

    The first and foremost lore I can think of at the moment is the fact that in one of the alternate endings of Disgaea 2, Laharl throws a hissy fit and blows up the whole world then and there. Roll credits.

    Iirc, in Disgaea 1 he fought off the entire fleet of earth in a short amount of time. He fought and defeated Etna’s brother, who was channeling the full power of the entire Netherworld at that time in D2.

    Disgaea D2 puts it in canon that Laharl defeated Tyrant Overlord Baal, a monstrously powerful demon that is sort of like the Galactus of the Nippon Ichi multiverse from what I gather (he is described as a threat to all worlds). This was a feat that even his father couldn’t achieve.

    Trying to think of examples that are non contextual for you ^^; I can’t think of too many right now, but its been a while since I’ve read, watched, or played any Disgaea. So I’ll have to do some research on this.

  13. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets September 3, 2014 at 3:40 pm -      #413

    “Out of curiosity, what would that put Laharl at?
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXrrLn4Uwpg
    The attack that keeps getting brought up for speed is Big Bang and starts at 0:30″

    I’m quoting this guy cus I’m curious as to how fast that attack was as well.
    =
    “lolololololol, i just said Thor was about 365 times FTL, my bad… i wasn’t thinking straight.”

    I know he’s faster, but where does that number come from?
    =
    “Assuming he travelled 2 lightyears (plural), in 60 seconds (shouldn’t be more than a minute, for the fight sequence to make sense). That puts Thor at about 1,051,200 FTL.”

    Again, where does this come from? Pretty crazy feat though.

  14. Friendlysociopath September 3, 2014 at 3:44 pm -      #414

    “However, i’m guessing there’s some sort of lore that supports Laharl actually being a solar buster? If so, i would like to see it.”

    Not sure if I can find a Let’s Play that doesn’t skip cutscenes, but in literally his first scene in Disgaea D2 he says he destroyed every star he could see, so now he has to be acknowledged as Overlord.
    To which Etna (His vassal) says something along the lines of “dumbass, everyone can do that”.

    “Also, is this planet actually earth? meaning… is that Solar System that we see in the game the Milky way?”

    Technically speaking they fly from the Netherworld. Just using Earth seems like the best equivalent, they’re pretty vague about how a lot of the universe works so they don’t have to deal with people telling them why it doesn’t work that way, hence the planet constantly being destroyed yet still there.

    Also, Laharl’s hellfire =/= GR’s hellfire, at least I really don’t think so.

  15. Ragnorke September 3, 2014 at 3:57 pm -      #415

    ” he says he destroyed every star he could see, so now he has to be acknowledged as Overlord.”

    Well… to be totally honest… that doesn’t mean he busted them in single hits. It coulda taken years.
    Off-panel feats are always tricky.

    “Technically speaking they fly from the Netherworld.”

    So… i don’t suppose there’s any way to measure its distance?
    For all we know, the planets aren’t 4 lighthours away from each other, but rather much much closer.

  16. Friendlysociopath September 3, 2014 at 4:16 pm -      #416

    “Well… to be totally honest… that doesn’t mean he busted them in single hits. It coulda taken years.
    Off-panel feats are always tricky.”

    While it could’ve taken him years, Etna’s response seems to indicate it proves nothing of a demon’s power to destroy a star.

    I did find a Let’s Play that ISN’T an hour long

    6:22 is when he starts bragging
    7:05 is one of the few shreds of proof I have for my destruction theory
    7:47 Etna mentions how destroying stars isn’t a big deal

    “So… i don’t suppose there’s any way to measure its distance?”

    Not really, no. They’re vague on anything that requires actual effort to explain. I do like my destruction theory, but it doesn’t really relate to the match.

  17. Jake_Uzumaki September 3, 2014 at 6:00 pm -      #417

    Hellfire should be at least as bad as Balefire…both have only been blocked by very few things that I know of Balefire’s being an indestructible material, a powerful magic sword, another stream of balefire, and it’s equal and opposite (fire of pure creation…so ironically while I’m pretty sure Dresden would loose to Rand he actually has a counter to Balefire)
    I think Hellfire has only been blocked by either similar forces, equal opposite forces..or a powerful divine protection…or just the thing it hits isn’t the target or is pure/holy so it doesn’t get affected.

  18. Alpha or Omega September 3, 2014 at 6:07 pm -      #418

    @Ragnorke.
    “Well… to be totally honest… that doesn’t mean he busted them in single hits. It coulda taken years.
    Off-panel feats are always tricky.”
    /
    God’s Hand, Disgaea and Disgaea 2
    “Said to be able to vanquish Overlords…”
    “Causes a Super Nova with every thrust.”
    /
    “So… i don’t suppose there’s any way to measure its distance? For all we know, the planets aren’t 4 lighthours away from each other, but rather much much closer.””
    /
    While they aren’t earth, or our solar system, it pretty much looks like and acts like ours except by name.
    /
    Also, he doesn’t have to ram Ghost Rider, just anyone else on team 1.
    He’s also a sword user so he doesn’t have to come into contact himself.

  19. Ragnorke September 3, 2014 at 6:33 pm -      #419

    ““Said to be able to vanquish Overlords…””

    This sentence is sorta meaningless to me…

    ““Causes a Super Nova with every thrust.””

    Hyperbole? If it did actually cause supernovas, wouldn’t the earth go boom?
    Visuals > Statements

    “While they aren’t earth, or our solar system, it pretty much looks like and acts like ours except by name.”

    I’m not willing to accept all the planets have the exact same distance away from each other, as they do in our solar system, without having some evidence.
    It could simply prove that the characters aren’t as massively FTL. And even IF it does infact have the same measurements that our solar system has, they still aren’t nearly as fast as most Marvel cosmic characters.

    “He’s also a sword user so he doesn’t have to come into contact himself.”

    GR can cover objects in Hellfire too.

    “Also, he doesn’t have to ram Ghost Rider, just anyone else on team 1.”

    He doesn’t seem to go around ramming people at FTL though… Would it be fair to say his CiS prefers fighting regular battles instead of speedblitzing? Infact, has he ever speedblitsed?
    Is the video posted the only time he actually uses FTL speed? Caus he literally just did it to fly into space, make a giant flash of bright light, and land.

  20. Alpha or Omega September 3, 2014 at 7:13 pm -      #420

    “Hyperbole? If it did actually cause supernovas, wouldn’t the earth go boom?
    Visuals > Statements”
    /
    It’s a description and I wouldn’t exactly say hyperbole if their attacks are casual mountain, planet, star, or solarsystem/galaxy busting.
    /
    “I’m not willing to accept all the planets have the exact same distance away from each other, as they do in our solar system, without having some evidence. It could simply prove that the characters aren’t as massively FTL.”
    /
    The fact that they have a star and planets looking exactly like ours?
    /
    “And even IF it does infact have the same measurements that our solar system has, they still aren’t nearly as fast as most Marvel cosmic characters.”
    /
    Except Thor wasn’t flying at MFTL speeds when fighting Ghost Rider
    /
    “GR can cover objects in Hellfire too.”
    /
    Even if they shoot projectiles and become longer than a planet?
    Around 2:00

    /
    “He doesn’t seem to go around ramming people at FTL though… Would it be fair to say his CiS prefers fighting regular battles instead of speedblitzing?”
    /
    Well, it’s obviously a player controlled action, and he does have to win here.
    I don’t see why he should hold back his speed and obviously, is here to win.
    /
    “Infact, has he ever speedblitsed?”
    /
    Some of his fists/swords skill moves do so, so I wouldn’t doubt him to go do that at a much faster speed.
    /
    “Is the video posted the only time he actually uses FTL speed? Caus he literally just did it to fly into space, make a giant flash of bright light, and land.”
    /
    0:14

    Here he does. This is also a move for Laharl.

  21. Ragnorke September 3, 2014 at 7:32 pm -      #421

    “It’s a description”

    The pokedex says some pokemon is twice as hot as the sun. But guess what? still hyperbole.

    “I wouldn’t exactly say hyperbole if their attacks are casual mountain, planet, star, or solarsystem/galaxy busting.”

    So far no one has actually provided any proof of the star/solar/galaxy busting.

    “The fact that they have a star and planets looking exactly like ours?”

    Not enough to prove they ARE in fact ours. I’m willing to bet the land formations on “earth” are different too.

    “Except Thor wasn’t flying at MFTL speeds when fighting Ghost Rider”

    And Laharl doesn’t usually fly at MTFL during his fights either. He only does it to charge up fancy moves, which have mediocre effects.
    And it seems like he has NO reason at all, to avoid eyecontact with the GR. If anything, it seems like he would make eyecontact just to taunt him.

    “I don’t see why he should hold back his speed and obviously, is here to win.”

    Caus a characters fighting style is still a part of the character & a part of the match.

    “Here he does. This is also a move for Laharl.”

    He seemed to just go slightly outside “Earths” atmosphere here… I wouldn’t say it’s MFTL…

  22. The Amazing Dualgunner September 3, 2014 at 7:47 pm -      #422

    “So far no one has actually provided any proof of the star/solar/galaxy busting.”
    -Correction, nobody’s provided proof that you deem acceptable, whether or not it is your choice that proof is or is not acceptable.

    “Not enough to prove they ARE in fact ours. I’m willing to bet the land formations on “earth” are different too.”
    -Same as above. Also, you can’t expect a game like Disgaea to go into too much detail about the landscape and how attacks work; the general acceptance is that they work and that’s all we need to know. Like Laharl dropping meteors on people; in gameplay, it doesn’t obliterate the battlefield, nor leave behind any trace of the meteor; so what, is he just making a pretend meteor?
    I would argue that the attacks work as depicted. And to further cement the “it’s our solar system”…
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX0SHNe-_kA#t=960
    Start at 16:00.

  23. Jake_Uzumaki September 3, 2014 at 8:05 pm -      #423

    off topic…but trying to think of a tag team match for a team up of Thor and Vegeta.

  24. Alpha or Omega September 3, 2014 at 8:06 pm -      #424

    “The pokedex says some pokemon is twice as hot as the sun. But guess what? still hyperbole.”
    /
    Not hyperbole due to the fact that lightning and nukes are as hot as the surface as the sun.
    Never mind that it’s not really irregular for Disgaea seeing as every monster can starbust and Laharl went everywhere destroying stars.
    /
    “So far no one has actually provided any proof of the star/solar/galaxy busting.”
    /
    I showed you the big bang attack where the solarsystem/galaxy is busted.
    Besides, here’s another attack where a mook is capable of doing so.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX0SHNe-_kA
    Starbusting
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX0SHNe-_kA#t=865
    Planet, star and Solar system/galaxy busting
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX0SHNe-_kA#t=960
    /
    “Not enough to prove they ARE in fact ours. I’m willing to bet the land formations on “earth” are different too.”
    /
    I’m not saying that they are ours. I’m saying that they are pretty much very similar to the point where it has our similar characteristics to our solar system such as distance.
    /
    “And Laharl doesn’t usually fly at MTFL during his fights either. He only does it to charge up fancy moves, which have mediocre effects.”
    /
    Those “mediocre” effects destroys mountains, planets, stars and solarsystems/galaxy.
    And, the point was that he can fly at those speeds.
    /
    “And it seems like he has NO reason at all, to avoid eyecontact with the GR. If anything, it seems like he would make eyecontact just to taunt him.”
    /
    Has the penance stare EVER worked at long range?
    /
    “Caus a characters fighting style is still a part of the character & a part of the match.”
    /
    Some of his fighting style shows him going towards the enemy and impaling or punching him.
    /
    “He seemed to just go slightly outside “Earths” atmosphere here… I wouldn’t say it’s MFTL…”
    /
    I don’t know what you saw, but he was far from it. The planet was pretty much a tiny spec when we saw from the meteor.

  25. Ragnorke September 3, 2014 at 8:25 pm -      #425

    “Correction, nobody’s provided proof that you deem acceptable, whether or not it is your choice that proof is or is not acceptable.”

    No one has provided proof. Period.
    Only statements & claims, neither of which qualify was proof.

    ” Like Laharl dropping meteors on people; in gameplay, it doesn’t obliterate the battlefield, nor leave behind any trace of the meteor; so what, is he just making a pretend meteor?”

    We see him dropping a meteor, therefor we assume he can drop meteors.
    But should we assume that meteor can bust stars, when all it has shown to do is knock a little man 1 inch backwards? No.
    Proof needs to be provided.

    “And to further cement the “it’s our solar system”…”

    1. Earth looks different. That alone is enough for me to throw your theory out the window.
    2. I could argue that all the planets look similar to ours, however they are a lot closer together. You have no way to prove their distances, and yet the burden of proof lies on you, not me.

    “and Laharl went everywhere destroying stars.”

    This is exactly what i want to SEE.

    “I showed you the big bang attack where the solarsystem/galaxy is busted.”

    You mean the attack that made a huge flash of light, yet everything was still perfectly in place?
    I don’t think the word “busted” means what you think it means.

    “I’m saying that they are pretty much very similar to the point where it has our similar characteristics to our solar system such as distance.”

    But you can’t prove it.
    You can say the individual planets look similar to ours, and you would be right.
    But saying the distances are the same is a complete asspull with no evidence backing it up whatsoever.

    “Planet, star and Solar system/galaxy busting”

    I only see Planet busting. And then a big flash of light, which doesn’t show anything being destroyed.
    Calling that Solar/Galaxy busting is false.

    “Those “mediocre” effects destroys mountains, planets, stars and solarsystems/galaxy.”

    No. They destroy planets. And make big fireworks.

    “Some of his fighting style shows him going towards the enemy and impaling or punching him.”

    Which would get him killed against GR.

  26. The Amazing Dualgunner September 3, 2014 at 8:40 pm -      #426

    “No one has provided proof. Period.
    Only statements & claims, neither of which qualify was proof.”
    Only statements, claims, definitions, videos, and lore. None of which you’ll accept as proof because…? And yes, you could make those arguments, but then we might as well just withdraw Disgaea’s ticket because, as far as the game needed to go for its artistic message and characters, that was all that needed to be shown. Are the artists really worried about how close the planets are to each other, or how accurate the earth looks, when the spectacle of the attack is *you are blowing up the fucking solar system*?

    Maybe it’s different for, say, Thor, who has ample comics and authors and etc who did and do care about how strong he actually is, the exact distance between planets and worlds, and whether or not the 616 ‘verse is better than the Ultimate ‘verse. But Disgaea, being a game that has only featured the main character twice, and does its best work by being a simple game with strategy and spectacle, not graphics and realism, really doesn’t have all that.

    You want more proof than we’ve shown? You’re asking for more proof than is there, and even if there was more proof, you’ve aptly shown your debating style to be nothing more than shooting down the evidence others bring you because you threw Occam’s Razor out the window.

  27. Numinous One September 3, 2014 at 8:42 pm -      #427

    “The pokedex says some pokemon is twice as hot as the sun. But guess what? still hyperbole.”

    Slight nitpick, but the games and therefor the pokedex, are the highest canon. The manga is based on the games, but veers off track a bit and the anime is more of a alternate universe spin off it’s that inaccurate.

    “Caus a characters fighting style is still a part of the character & a part of the match.”

    From what I know it’s not really Blaze’s style to let out Zarathos over something pretty minor like this, but if it’s true that characters get super cerial and will do whatever it takes to win, Laharl blitzes team 1 right from the start. Laharl does tend to favor destroying shit before it becomes an issue, well, just destroying stuff in general, but now he has a target, so that approach is within CIS.
    Zarathos might come out after that, but I don’t know if he has any speed feats to make a difference.

  28. Alpha or Omega September 3, 2014 at 8:52 pm -      #428

    “No one has provided proof. Period.”
    /
    Which also hasn’t been done on your side either.
    You claimed that Zarathos was capable of the same caliber of Mephisto, and yet, never demonstrates any of the claimed level.
    /
    “Only statements & claims, neither of which qualify was proof.”
    /
    We see them do those and they say they can do so.
    /
    “We see him dropping a meteor, therefor we assume he can drop meteors.
    But should we assume that meteor can bust stars, when all it has shown to do is knock a little man 1 inch backwards? No.
    Proof needs to be provided.”
    /
    The intro has shown the meteor to eradicate the entire battlefield.
    /
    “1. Earth looks different. That alone is enough for me to throw your theory out the window.”
    /
    Only due to the fact that the humans made the world technologically advanced to the point it destroyed it.
    /
    “2. I could argue that all the planets look similar to ours, however they are a lot closer together. You have no way to prove their distances, and yet the burden of proof lies on you, not me.”
    /
    The same could be said for Marvel’s solar system.
    The only thing they have in common with ours is names and nothing more.
    /
    “This is exactly what i want to SEE.”
    /
    Which I gave you monsters busting planets, stars, and the solarsystem/galaxy.
    /
    “You mean the attack that made a huge flash of light, yet everything was still perfectly in place?
    I don’t think the word “busted” means what you think it means.”
    /
    Did you not see after the huge flash of light, there was a black hole that consumed the earth and then destroyed said solar system/galaxy?
    /
    “But you can’t prove it.
    You can say the individual planets look similar to ours, and you would be right.
    But saying the distances are the same is a complete asspull with no evidence backing it up whatsoever.”
    /
    You’re right. Prove that Marvel’s solar system have the same distance as ours.
    They only look the same and have the same name.
    /
    “I only see Planet busting. And then a big flash of light, which doesn’t show anything being destroyed.
    Calling that Solar/Galaxy busting is false.”
    /
    The except that laser was big enough to consume that solar system/galaxy.
    /
    “No. They destroy planets. And make big fireworks.”
    /
    Yes they do. We first see the Fist A skill destroy the solar system/galaxy after creating the black hole.
    We see planets shatter, and the laser destroying the solar system.
    We see an attack that makes the solar system/galaxy explode.
    We don’t see Zarathos display these anyway.
    /
    “Which would get him killed against GR.”
    /
    But not the others of team 1.
    Nevermind the fact that he tanked hellfire as shown in the videos above.

  29. Commander Cross September 3, 2014 at 8:52 pm -      #429

    For the idea at #423,
    have Yasha from Asura’s Wrath and either (the Original) Laharl of Disgaea or Spawn(either as Al Simmons from Legion-Level+ onward or Jim Downing.), problem solved.
    As for #417’s noting, if anyone wants Post-Changes Dresden vs. Rand al’Thor to happen, they’ll do us all a favor and either Wait for The Apocalyptic Trilogy to Happen or have Post-Changes Dresden tagged with Post-Deathbringer Darquesse and one more person I’d like to name, and No it’s not Lord Vile here this time, get over it!
    Just Mere Post-Changes Dresden or Darquesse by themselves get Hax-Stormed as it is against Rand(with or without his Combat Amplifier Artifacts like Callandor.), but tagged together with the right person, they might avoid dying all over the place.
    I’d frown on Mere Post-Changes* Dresden or Darquesse had to fight Rand alone outright in a Death-Duel, know this.
    ___

    Anyway, does Laharl have any Infinity Plus One Swords we ought to name in this fight?
    If he uses Swords against 616 Ghost Rider in time, it makes a difference really.

    Also if I’m not wrong or mis-recalling, doesn’t Spawn(As Jim Downing, Not Al Simmons.) happen to have Redeemer Mode to draw on as well?

    1.) (P.C= Post-Changes for short.)

  30. Jake_Uzumaki September 3, 2014 at 8:57 pm -      #430

    Zarathos has actively asked Blaze to release him before such as during the incident with WWHulk, they know the other team is powerful and if he knows WWHulk is in play again he knows he will need that power this time so he will unleash Zarathos’s full power.

  31. Alpha or Omega September 3, 2014 at 9:04 pm -      #431

    “Zarathos has actively asked Blaze to release him before such as during the incident with WWHulk,”
    /
    Wasn’t that during the part WWH smashing Ghost Rider?
    /
    “they know the other team is powerful and if he knows WWHulk is in play again he knows he will need that power this time so he will unleash Zarathos’s full power.”
    /
    Yet, the Ghost Rider didn’t use his power to kill the Hulk due to the fact that he was “innocent.”

  32. wingedlion September 3, 2014 at 9:15 pm -      #432

    “Yet, while he’s not as smart as Eggman, Shadow was smart enough to point out that it was possible.”

    he said it might have been possible.
    pointing out that something might be possible after a person introduced it does not really mean that they already had knowledge of it.

    for example, if you introduced a new theory of time travel, one that made a reasonable amount of sense, and i said that it might be possible that this theory is true, does that mean i always knew of that theory. all i’m admitting is that this theory might be true. same with shadow.

    “From what I know it’s not really Blaze’s style to let out Zarathos over something pretty minor like this,”

    a demon overlord is not something he’s going to consider as minor.

    anyways, as for the solar system argument, occam’s razor pretty much means that the person assuming that the solar system is diffrent from our own is wrong unless they have proof. so the person claiming the solar system is diffrent has to provide evidence to support their claim.

  33. Alpha or Omega September 3, 2014 at 9:29 pm -      #433

    “he said it might have been possible.
    pointing out that something might be possible after a person introduced it does not really mean that they already had knowledge of it.”
    /
    He was talking about destroying Solaris. And to point it out, they were never told they can do this. In fact, Silver was the one to bring it up, and Shadow corrected him. They were only told that Solaris existed in a point in the past, present, or future.
    /
    “for example, if you introduced a new theory of time travel, one that made a reasonable amount of sense, and i said that it might be possible that this theory is true, does that mean i always knew of that theory. all i’m admitting is that this theory might be true. same with shadow.”
    /
    Except Shadow was the one who corrected Silver by saying they needed three to cover three points in time. Furthermore, although Sonic has used the chaos emeralds more than Shadow, Shadow was the one who pointed out that the chaos emeralds can time travel.
    This was after his fight with Silver way before fighting Solaris.
    /
    “a demon overlord is not something he’s going to consider as minor.”
    /
    Yet, hasn’t demonstrated great feats and was only powerscaled to GalactusI(who fluctuates), SilverSurfer who hasn’t demonstrated solar system/galaxy destroying feats, and gone toe to toe with Mephisto(who had his realm consumed by Galactus despite the home turf advantage)

  34. wingedlion September 3, 2014 at 9:39 pm -      #434

    “He was talking about destroying Solaris. And to point it out, they were never told they can do this. In fact, Silver was the one to bring it up, and Shadow corrected him. They were only told that Solaris existed in a point in the past, present, or future.”

    shadow didn’t correct him though. he was just saying that what silver suggested might be possible if sonic was still alive.

    “Yet, hasn’t demonstrated great feats and was only powerscaled to GalactusI(who fluctuates), SilverSurfer who hasn’t demonstrated solar system/galaxy destroying feats, and gone toe to toe with Mephisto(who had his realm consumed by Galactus despite the home turf advantage)”

    1. since when was powerscaling not viable?
    2. galactus at his weakest destroyed multiple star systems.

    EDIT:”Except Shadow was the one who corrected Silver by saying they needed three to cover three points in time. Furthermore, although Sonic has used the chaos emeralds more than Shadow, Shadow was the one who pointed out that the chaos emeralds can time travel.”

    wait a minute, just to be clear, what are you arguing? i know that you said you no longer believe that shadow exists at 1/3 of all timelines. are you arguing that he simply exists in 1/3 of the main timeline or that he can time travel?

  35. Aelfinn September 3, 2014 at 9:52 pm -      #435

    Well, looks like I was wrong about the nanoprobe thing.
    =
    Anyway, we shouldn’t use Thor’s speed to base Ghost Rider’s speed off of. Thor’s reaction times are questionable at best, and street-level at worst. If we follow along this line of reasoning, this means Wolverine is FTL, because Thor just absolutely couldn’t land a hit on him in one of his fights. Let alone Spiderman and the Mongoose, who also out-sped Thor.

    What I’m getting at is who someone fights should not count for a speed feat.

    (Also, imo, Galactus is as powerful or as weak as the plot demands. One moment he’s destroying solar systems, the next any old villain is KO-ing him.)
    =
    On that Big Bang attack: considering the attacking character moved past some planet past Saturn in three seconds, he moved somewhere between 2890 and 8340 times the speed of light. Depending on whether we use Uranus or Pluto.

  36. wingedlion September 3, 2014 at 9:58 pm -      #436

    “Anyway, we shouldn’t use Thor’s speed to base Ghost Rider’s speed off of. Thor’s reaction times are questionable at best, and street-level at worst. If we follow along this line of reasoning, this means Wolverine is FTL, because Thor just absolutely couldn’t land a hit on him in one of his fights. Let alone Spiderman and the Mongoose, who also out-sped Thor.”

    the first problem with this is the fact that thor never fights any mortal at full power, so those fights don’t even count. furthermore, the fights that your mentioning only happened once. there are many more instances of thor being FTL than him losing to street levels.

    “(Also, imo, Galactus is as powerful or as weak as the plot demands. One moment he’s destroying solar systems, the next any old villain is KO-ing him.)”

    from what i’m aware, i’m pretty sure the weakest version of galactus is the one that destroys solar systems. what old villain KO’d him anyways?

  37. Alpha or Omega September 3, 2014 at 10:00 pm -      #437

    “shadow didn’t correct him though. he was just saying that what silver suggested might be possible if sonic was still alive.”
    /
    That’s still to be corrected since Silver said to destroy them all at once by himself.
    Nevermind that Shadow was the one to tell Silver about chaos emeralds power over time way before Solaris appeared.
    /
    “1. since when was powerscaling not viable?”
    /
    Ever since we used it on characters who fluctuate and wins some and lose some unreasonable battles.
    /
    “2. galactus at his weakest destroyed multiple star systems.”
    /
    And he was shown to use this on Zarathos himself or did they just “fight” like how it goes down in Marvel?
    /
    “wait a minute, just to be clear, what are you arguing? i know that you said you no longer believe that shadow exists at 1/3 of all timelines. are you arguing that he simply exists in 1/3 of the main timeline or that he can time travel?”
    /
    Existing in one point in time=/=Existing in 1/3 of all time. It’s not really that hard to understand. And yes, I’m arguing for time travel.
    /
    Here, lets use numbers in seconds. Hopefully, this analogy would work.
    Say, that time had a line of seconds 1 to 15.
    Existing in 1/3 of time would be either 1 to 5, 5 to 10, or 10 to 15.
    Existing in one point in time would just be one number, just not having time passing by unless you time travel.

  38. Aelfinn September 3, 2014 at 10:10 pm -      #438

    “the first problem with this is the fact that thor never fights any mortal at full power, so those fights don’t even count. furthermore, the fights that your mentioning only happened once. there are many more instances of thor being FTL than him losing to street levels.”

    If you want the scans, I can get them for you. Thor literally, flat-out states that “Wolverine is evading my finest of blows.” Wolverine, who thought that Thor was Sabretooth said something like “Looks like ya traded speed for strength when ya came back from the dead.” There’s also scans where Captain America says “Thor, why did you come into this room? I use this to test my reaction times, and your reaction times suck.” Thor’s only ever FTL in travel speed, which is created by his hammer.

    Anyway, that debate’s neither here nor there. My point is this: we simply cannot use Thor’s speed for Ghost Rider because comics are dumb.

  39. wingedlion September 3, 2014 at 10:15 pm -      #439

    “Ever since we used it on characters who fluctuate and wins some and lose some unreasonable battles.”

    except we know what state galactus was in when he was fighting mephisto. he was hungry.

    “And he was shown to use this on Zarathos himself or did they just “fight” like how it goes down in Marvel?”

    this was already explained by ragnorke. just because the attacks their trading don’t look impressive does not mean it isn’t, especially if the person is serious.

    “And yes, I’m arguing for time travel.”

    “Nevermind that Shadow was the one to tell Silver about chaos emeralds power over time way before Solaris appeared.”

    ah, ok then.

  40. Commander Cross September 3, 2014 at 10:23 pm -      #440

    What gives if 616 SS Strange or Regular 616 Thor both start having questionable showings, sometimes?
    At least most of the time with 616 Thor, he tries to hold back on Mere Mortals in general, and 616 SS Strange going all-out when he’s fighting no less than the likes of Mephisto or Dormammu is generally Bad News.

  41. wingedlion September 3, 2014 at 10:28 pm -      #441

    “If you want the scans, I can get them for you. Thor literally, flat-out states that “Wolverine is evading my finest of blows.” Wolverine, who thought that Thor was Sabretooth said something like “Looks like ya traded speed for strength when ya came back from the dead.” There’s also scans where Captain America says “Thor, why did you come into this room? I use this to test my reaction times, and your reaction times suck.””

    your not getting me. i’m not doubting the existence of said scans. i’m saying those scans are irrelevant because thor holds back against mortals.
    if your talking about his quotes in those battles, those scans wouldn’t be the first time thor has downplayed his own stats when his other feats clearly contradicts him.

    “Thor’s only ever FTL in travel speed, which is created by his hammer.”

    that’s not true though. thor when not holding back has had no problems with reacting to people at FTL speeds.

  42. Friendlysociopath September 3, 2014 at 10:43 pm -      #442

    I can find evidence of Salome casually blowing up another Netherworld just to prove a point, and she’s dying and giving all of her mana to Zetta. Would *that* be enough proof for you that Disgaea characters are capable of planet-busting? I mean Laharl said he destroyed stars, and instead of calling his statement BS as if it were untrue, he’s just told it’s unimpressive. Also, the developers clearly state that the things are planet-busting and solar-system destroying, the visuals not meeting your criteria really isn’t our concern.

    Also, several attacks name the planets as they pass them, know what they say? Pluto, Saturn, Jupiter, Mars. Earth.

  43. Ragnorke September 3, 2014 at 10:47 pm -      #443

    @Alpha
    “You claimed that Zarathos was capable of the same caliber of Mephisto, and yet, never demonstrates any of the claimed level.”

    I already posted the scans on this thread. You not reading them isn’t my problem.

    “We see them do those and they say they can do so.”

    But this is the issue, i have yet to see anyone solar bust.

    “Only due to the fact that the humans made the world technologically advanced to the point it destroyed it.”

    This is good enough reason i suppose. I concede to the point of the Solar System.

    “The same could be said for Marvel’s solar system. The only thing they have in common with ours is names and nothing more”

    Invalid point.
    If something shares the same name AND appearance, it is by all means the same thing.
    Whereas here, they not only have different names, but slightly different appearance too. (although you have given a reason for that)

    “Yet, hasn’t demonstrated great feats and was only powerscaled to GalactusI(who fluctuates),”

    Galactus being someone who at his weakest destroyed 3 solar systems in a single hit, and who at average is capable of beating Odin (who is a casual galaxy buster)
    I know there’s a lot of power-scaling going on, but that’s a completely viable method.

    @Aelfinn
    ” we simply cannot use Thor’s speed for Ghost Rider because comics are dumb.”

    It isn’t just Thor though… Mephisto, Strange, all these people have shown to move at FTL.
    Sure they don’t “fight” at FTL, but since when does Laharl fight at that speed either? I have yet to see it if he does.

    @wingedlion
    ” so the person claiming the solar system is diffrent has to provide evidence to support their claim.”

    How is the earth being different not enough proof? That should be more than enough to prove they are different ENOUGH for the opposing side to provide proof of the distances.
    However, Alpha has provided reasoning for why the earth looks different.

    @cross
    “and 616 SS Strange going all-out when he’s fighting no less than the likes of Mephisto or Dormammu”

    I believe Strange usually loses to Mephisto or Dormammu, not even with preptime & amps.

    @Friendlysocio
    “Also, several attacks name the planets as they pass them, know what they say? Pluto, Saturn, Jupiter, Mars. Earth.”

    Pointing that out earlier woulda been nice.

  44. Alpha or Omega September 3, 2014 at 10:48 pm -      #444

    “except we know what state galactus was in when he was fighting mephisto. he was hungry.”
    /
    Whether he was hungry or not, I was talking about his fight with Zarathos.
    /
    “this was already explained by ragnorke. just because the attacks their trading don’t look impressive does not mean it isn’t, especially if the person is serious.”
    /
    I’m well aware as this is common in comics.
    However, my point was that did Galactus hit him with a multi-solar system hit, or did he just hit him, like swatting a fly in annoyance?
    I’m just told he overpowered Galactus…
    In fact, did we get scans of Galactus vs Zarathos?

  45. Jake_Uzumaki September 3, 2014 at 10:52 pm -      #445

    “those scans wouldn’t be the first time thor has downplayed his own stats when his other feats clearly contradicts him.”

    For Example, Thor says his opponent tanks the full force of Mjolnir
    oi58.tinypic.com/wgqcrt.jpg

    And then proceeds to knock said opponent on his ass seconds later
    oi60.tinypic.com/r7iw4w.jpg

  46. Jake_Uzumaki September 3, 2014 at 10:55 pm -      #446

    Back when Zarathos first fought Mephisto head on in Mephisto’s own realm he punched into Mephisto’s chest and ripped out his heart
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/3121684-0+(1).jpg

  47. Alpha or Omega September 3, 2014 at 11:05 pm -      #447

    @Ragnorke
    “I already posted the scans on this thread. You not reading them isn’t my problem”
    /
    Can you give me which page it’s on? I’ll go back and read it.
    /
    “But this is the issue, i have yet to see anyone solar bust.”
    /
    Three attacks were shown to solar bust…
    Big Bang can be done by any Class A Fist.
    The others show a mook blowing one up, and another mook’s laser doing the same.
    /
    “Invalid point.
    If something shares the same name AND appearance, it is by all means the same thing.
    Whereas here, they not only have different names, but slightly different appearance too. (although you have given a reason for that)”
    /
    I was half serious.
    /
    “Galactus being someone who at his weakest destroyed 3 solar systems in a single hit, and who at average is capable of beating Odin (who is a casual galaxy buster)
    I know there’s a lot of power-scaling going on, but that’s a completely viable method.”
    /
    And did he ever get hit by the multi-solar busting attack or dealt one?
    /
    “It isn’t just Thor though… Mephisto, Strange, all these people have shown to move at FTL.
    Sure they don’t “fight” at FTL, but since when does Laharl fight at that speed either? I have yet to see it if he does.”
    /
    Does it matter? Laharl with the big bang move rams into 6 enemies. His other attacks shows him charging towards his enemies or attacking them from space.
    Only Ghost Rider would survive which would end in these two slugging each other, leaving team 2 to Super-up and grab the ring with time travel.
    Oh, how does Ghost Rider deal with time manipulation?
    Bayonetta does a time slow to the point where it’s close to a time stop and Shadow can time slow.

  48. Alpha or Omega September 3, 2014 at 11:08 pm -      #448

    @Jake
    I got an error for that link.

  49. wingedlion September 3, 2014 at 11:11 pm -      #449

    “How is the earth being different not enough proof? That should be more than enough to prove they are different ENOUGH for the opposing side to provide proof of the distances.

    1. i was just saying how this should be handled. i didn’t really accuse you of anything.
    2. that would just mean earth is diffrent, not the solar system.
    but like you said, AoO handled it already.

    “I believe Strange usually loses to Mephisto or Dormammu, not even with preptime & amps.”

    actually strange usually wins against dormammu (although admittedly with lots of difficulty). it’s usually in the dark dimension where dormammu wins his battles against strange.

    “Whether he was hungry or not, I was talking about his fight with Zarathos.”

    “In fact, did we get scans of Galactus vs Zarathos?”

    … he never fought galactus.
    you realize that zarathos is being scaled from mephisto, right?
    it was mephisto that fought galactus.
    galactus started to win by absorbing mephisto’s dimension, but before that he was doing pretty well against him.
    i thought it was posted already, but if not i’ll see if i can find it.

  50. Jake_Uzumaki September 3, 2014 at 11:13 pm -      #450

    @Alpha
    oi59.tinypic.com/ivlqw4.jpg
    this one should work better, I’m trying to find the whole fight if possible.

  51. Jake_Uzumaki September 3, 2014 at 11:24 pm -      #451

    Okay found the other two parts of it though with Mephisto’s comments I’m not actually sure where in Ghost Rider’s timeline this actually is.
    i59.tinypic.com/33k3yo6.jpg
    oi59.tinypic.com/ivlqw4.jpg
    oi58.tinypic.com/qoaz9w.jpg

  52. Darth Bombad September 4, 2014 at 12:59 am -      #452

    ^Jake
    I believe that’s Alejandra Blaze, she had johnny’s SoV at the time.
    Not sure if she ever let’s big Z take control during that fight.
    But damn is it ever impressive!, she went all Kano on Mephi’s ass.

  53. The Amazing Dualgunner September 4, 2014 at 1:15 am -      #453

    “^Jake
    I believe that’s Alejandra Blaze, she had johnny’s SoV at the time.”
    Not an expert on it, but I would agree with him–that or GR suddenly got tits.
    Whether or not that changes anything. I just wanted to say “tits”.

  54. Ranger Lowk September 4, 2014 at 3:10 am -      #454

    So thought, regardless of whose wearing it Spawn suit is still the same suit and the suit is FTL
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3724616-spawn+ability+chains+and+cape+speed+%283%29.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3724617-spawn+ability+chains+and+cape+speed+%284%29.jpg

    And Downing has the whole teleshadowporting static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/123441/3691548-jim+ability+shadow+portation+%281%29.png

    And can project things through them
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3724539-jim+ability+shadow+attack+%282%29.png

    Couldn’t Spawn just grab the ring at the start using that or at least putting traps or such to pull in anyone that tries to get close to it?
    ===
    @Jake
    for the vs Thor and Vegeta thing how about vs Laharl and H’el.

  55. Ranger Lowk September 4, 2014 at 3:13 am -      #455

    By traps I mean doing something like this
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3724540-jim+ability+shadow+attacks+%283%29.png
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3724541-jim+ability+shadow+attacks+%284%29.png
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3724542-jim+ability+shadow+attacks+%285%29.png

  56. Commander Cross September 4, 2014 at 3:30 am -      #456

    @Ranger Lowk at #454

    That explains more on Jim Downing’s capabilities, barring Redeemer Mode if it means anything.
    If nothing else, it’s Jim Downing’s first fight on-site at the very least.

    ___

    I already Proposed Laharl somewhere as among the few listed out, whoever else ought to be included that could fight Thor and Vegeta’s up for grabs.

  57. Ranger Lowk September 4, 2014 at 3:36 am -      #457

    “whoever else ought to be included that could fight Thor and Vegeta’s up for grabs.”

    I dunno, Wraith. He’s supposed to be getting in a good fight with superman in Superman Unchained next Wednesday.

  58. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets September 4, 2014 at 5:10 am -      #458

    “off topic…but trying to think of a tag team match for a team up of Thor and Vegeta.”

    Some combination of Wraith, H’El, Superdoom, Doomsday, Solomon Grundy, Mongul, Darkseid, Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern, etc. Although I do like the idea of Wraith and H’El teaming up.

    Pretty sure Vegeta wouldn’t do too much if he’s in a tag team with Thor. It’d kinda be like the WW and Bats vs Thor and Cap ‘Murica match, but to a much lesser extent(since Vegeta can blow up planets).
    =
    “GR suddenly got tits.”

    He got tits, duh.
    =
    Was it ever specified which GR was being used? IIRC on the GR vs NL match there was mention of there being two, maybe three GR running around?

  59. wingedlion September 4, 2014 at 7:10 am -      #459

    “^Jake
    I believe that’s Alejandra Blaze, she had johnny’s SoV at the time.
    Not sure if she ever let’s big Z take control during that fight.
    But damn is it ever impressive!, she went all Kano on Mephi’s ass.”

    she has the same spirit as johnny. it should still count.

  60. Jake_Uzumaki September 4, 2014 at 9:44 am -      #460

    She had Zarathos the same one as Blaze, Zarathos’s power is the same no matter the host

    As to the other Riders….they both have vastly weaker if still powerful spirits. However Blaze is the primary Ghost Rider that exists and the original character.

  61. Ragnorke September 4, 2014 at 9:49 am -      #461

    ““off topic…but trying to think of a tag team match for a team up of Thor and Vegeta.””

    Isn’t Thor heavily out of Vegetas league?
    I mean, it’s generally accepted on FP that Superman > Goku.
    However, current Thor would beat current Superman 8/10 times imo.

    “I believe that’s Alejandra Blaze, she had johnny’s SoV at the time.
    Not sure if she ever let’s big Z take control during that fight.”

    Honestly shouldn’t make a difference, since the host makes no difference to Zarathos.

    “actually strange usually wins against dormammu (although admittedly with lots of difficulty). ”

    The only fight i’v actually seen between them, had Strange threatening to release the “many angled ones”, and more or less forced dormammu to surrender. So PiS.
    He had no chance otherwise.

  62. Jake_Uzumaki September 4, 2014 at 11:59 am -      #462

    Thor and Vegeta would be on the same team not fighting.

    Against Shuma Gorath during their very first fight Strange stole power from every universe in the Multiverse to put tentacle boy down..I have never been able to find the scans of that fight though.

  63. Ragnorke September 4, 2014 at 1:58 pm -      #463

    “Against Shuma Gorath during their very first fight Strange stole power from every universe in the Multiverse to put tentacle boy down”

    I looked up the wiki on this. He was heavily amped by the spirit of the former sorcerer supreme AND had prep time.

    The latest showings of Strange, provide concrete evidence that Strange is not a planet-buster without amps.

  64. wingedlion September 4, 2014 at 2:43 pm -      #464

    “The only fight i’v actually seen between them, had Strange threatening to release the “many angled ones”, and more or less forced dormammu to surrender. So PiS.
    He had no chance otherwise.”

    …. um, are you sure your talking about the mindless ones?
    because the many-angled ones are demonic gods such as shuma-gorath, who strange doesn’t call upon.
    and just in case you are talking about the mindless ones, i know which battle your referring to, and that was in the dark dimension.
    and he didn’t surrender, he just used up so much power fighting strange that the seal keeping the mindless ones out weakened, and strange lent dormammu some of his power to erect the barrier again.

    “I looked up the wiki on this. He was heavily amped by the spirit of the former sorcerer supreme AND had prep time.”

    no and no to both of these. admittedly strange did get a boost from one of shuma’s servant to fight him but he was never amped by the ancient one or had prep time for that.

  65. wingedlion September 4, 2014 at 3:25 pm -      #465

    “um, are you sure your talking about the mindless ones?”

    my bad. meant aren’t talking about the mindless ones.

  66. Ragnorke September 4, 2014 at 4:02 pm -      #466

    “and he didn’t surrender, he just used up so much power fighting strange that the seal keeping the mindless ones out weakened, and strange lent dormammu some of his power to erect the barrier again.”

    I see.
    So has Strange every actually beaten him, without PiS? If so, i’d love to see it. I’v seen a few scans here and there, and Strange always seems to be in the losing end.

    “admittedly strange did get a boost from one of shuma’s servant to fight him but he was never amped by the ancient one”

    I’ll check the wiki again and let you know. Might have been a different fight.

  67. wingedlion September 4, 2014 at 4:07 pm -      #467

    “I see.
    So has Strange every actually beaten him, without PiS? If so, i’d love to see it. I’v seen a few scans here and there, and Strange always seems to be in the losing end.”

    from what i recall yes, he has actually beaten him without PIS. unfortunately the respect threads are down and i can’t find it anywhere else. i’ll keep looking though, and if i ever find it i’ll show it.

  68. Alpha or Omega September 4, 2014 at 9:52 pm -      #468

    @Jake
    Alright, thanks for the scans.
    I’ll assume that Zarathos is solar system level since he beat Mephisto in that fight.
    /
    @wingedlion
    “… he never fought galactus.
    you realize that zarathos is being scaled from mephisto, right?
    it was mephisto that fought galactus.
    galactus started to win by absorbing mephisto’s dimension, but before that he was doing pretty well against him.
    /
    Well, to be fair. When he said “he.”
    I thought he meant Zarathos, Not Mephisto, since “he” could have meant any male unless specified.
    /
    @Lowk
    “So thought, regardless of whose wearing it Spawn suit is still the same suit and the suit is FTL”
    /
    Well, how much faster is it than light?
    /
    “And Downing has the whole teleshadowporting”
    /
    Doesn’t he still needs to be in the shadows and I’m not sure if the place where the one ring has enough shadows.
    /
    “And can project things through them”
    /
    Okay, that could pose a problem to anyone not durable enough.
    /
    “Couldn’t Spawn just grab the ring at the start using that or at least putting traps or such to pull in anyone that tries to get close to it?”
    /
    Shadow is also capable of teleporting too as well of the added bonus of time travel.

  69. Friendlysociopath September 4, 2014 at 10:05 pm -      #469

    “Doesn’t he still needs to be in the shadows and I’m not sure if the place where the one ring has enough shadows.”

    Concerning this- where exactly is the One Ring at? It’s not mentioned in the description.

    I was assuming it was inside Mount Doom or whatever it’s called, I forget. There would be plenty of shadows in there- wait, are there shadows in there?

  70. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets September 25, 2014 at 2:51 am -      #470

    So, didn’t read the thread, but I just wanted to bring this up. Not to argue, but because it’s frigging crazy feats for Asura.
    =
    Recently I got the game(and all the DLC, cus it’s the most epic anime I’ve ever seen, and the only anime I’ve ever played), and I’ve been scouring the interwebs for respect threads for him and whatnot, and I found these two:
    =
    Asura casually dodges blasts that are about 5x FTL

    www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=19556
    =
    Asura stops a finger press that’s equilevent of “7.352998046 yottatons”

    www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=17492
    =
    So, yea… Asura’s pretty frigging crazy. Somewhat Relevant sense IIRC Yasha>Asura in supposedly every aspect IIRC.

  71. Commander Cross September 25, 2014 at 3:37 am -      #471

    Does Shadow have the Shadow Rifle on him, by chance?

  72. Jake_Uzumaki September 29, 2014 at 8:35 pm -      #472

    So turns out all Ghost Rider has to do is stare in a general area and he can Penance Stare millions of people in one go when unchained.
    4.bp.blogspot.com/-uNH1Mk0_crI/U2NkpVo4j8I/AAAAAAADJNM/8tJmzCpCIOw/s1600/-023.jpg

    Did…this to a demon.
    1.bp.blogspot.com/-qH9vY9Inxsw/U2NkrYk-9rI/AAAAAAADJOM/n6rXN9wW_UE/s1600/-028.jpg

    And all unchaining him needs is telling Blaze he got Bayonetta pregnant and making him believe it….then boom goes the everything.
    1.bp.blogspot.com/-3nXwFtCYUqg/U2NkoAeW4RI/AAAAAAADJM4/6liVgibj8-Q/s1600/-021.jpg
    4.bp.blogspot.com/-hXYwv0x5vko/U2Nko0ZflnI/AAAAAAADJNE/4rZeL_eLzrU/s1600/-022.jpg

    So step one, scout and find out Bayonetta is on team 2, step two have Blaze tell them about how thinking it made offspring makes the Rider go apeshit, step three Manhunter makes Blaze believe the lie with some help from Fate, step four profit.

  73. Alpha or Omega September 29, 2014 at 8:48 pm -      #473

    @Jake
    So where’s the scan showing him using penance stare on 1 million people?
    We don’t see that doing that on that scan at all. He says the “fetid pit will feel the stare of penance” He doesn’t say he will use it on everyone at once nor implies it.
    /
    There’s no prep-time, so no scouting anyway.
    /
    @Ch1
    “So, yea… Asura’s pretty frigging crazy. Somewhat Relevant sense IIRC Yasha>Asura in supposedly every aspect IIRC.”
    /
    I disagree, but it matters not if Yasha is or is not.

  74. Friendlysociopath September 29, 2014 at 8:48 pm -      #474

    “1.bp.blogspot.com/-3nXwFtCYUqg/U2NkoAeW4RI/AAAAAAADJM4/6liVgibj8-Q/s1600/-021.jpg”

    It says he was mentally manipulated into thinking he had a child, not quite the same scenario here. I doubt his team would mindfuck him either, doesn’t seem in character for anyone at all.

    “Does Shadow have the Shadow Rifle on him, by chance?”

    Is it something he routinely carries around with him? The Hedgehogs apparently use hammer-space (Amy literally pulls her hammer from nowhere) so he might not have it in view. What’s it even do?

  75. Alpha or Omega September 29, 2014 at 8:55 pm -      #475

    No, the Shadow rifle isn’t carried with him routinely.
    /
    It’s not useful in this case anyway.

  76. Jake_Uzumaki September 29, 2014 at 9:07 pm -      #476

    my bad thought it had the rest,
    2.bp.blogspot.com/-pwpzuvr2gp4/U2Nkpo8vJ7I/AAAAAAADJNU/084lGVhkFYU/s1600/-024.jpg
    he penance stared the entire city below, easily the size of New York.

  77. Jake_Uzumaki September 29, 2014 at 9:12 pm -      #477

    ” I doubt his team would mindfuck him either, doesn’t seem in character for anyone at all.”

    Nabuu mindfucked dozens of people into killing themselves just to try and get someone to put on the helmet. Making Blaze believe a tiny lie isn’t any worse, and if no scouting then just say he knocked up Kaguya. Once the Rider is unleashed he’ll go for the biggest source of sin in the area and go for burning it which would be Team 2.

  78. Friendlysociopath September 29, 2014 at 9:16 pm -      #478

    How come nobody has brought up any feats for Yasha btw? I thought people in Asura were absurdly fast and strong?

  79. Alpha or Omega September 29, 2014 at 9:20 pm -      #479

    Laharl, as I said before, would ram into team 1 before Ghost Rider gets into the sky to do that.
    /
    Also, how is team 2 the biggest source of sin?
    Darth Nihilus is the only big sinner on team 2, while team 1 has Sosuke Aizen and Spawn who’s suit feeds off of evil.
    /
    Furthermore, he never met Kaguya at all.
    Why would mind-raping work if he never seen Kaguya before in his whole life?

  80. Jake_Uzumaki September 29, 2014 at 9:23 pm -      #480

    Laharl is a demon, GEoM is a prideful heretical sociopath that claims to be a god who has caused suffering for billions of sentient beings.

    Larhal would try and suffer the same fate as Satanna who passed out from being inches from Ghost Rider’s flames while he was in full on everyone burns mode.

    He never had a relationship with Scarlet Witch either, it was all fake memories. Why wouldn’t fake memories of Kaguya have the same effect.

  81. Friendlysociopath September 29, 2014 at 9:24 pm -      #481

    “Also, how is team 2 the biggest source of sin?
    Darth Nihilus is the only big sinner on team 2, while team 1 has Sosuke Aizen and Spawn who’s suit feeds off of evil.”

    Well he isn’t going to go for his own team is he? Unless releasing the Rider makes him vengeful enough to go for any sin, which would make a lot of sense.

    Just out of curiosity, does Team A have any defense of Laharl just sending them to another dimension? One of his attacks is creating his own dimension and beating the hell out of them in it.

  82. Alpha or Omega September 29, 2014 at 9:35 pm -      #482

    @Jake
    “Laharl is a demon, GEoM is a prideful heretical sociopath that claims to be a god who has caused suffering for billions of sentient beings.”
    /
    Laharl is a half demon half human hybrid. How does being a demon=big sinner?
    He’s probably has less sins than Bills
    /
    The lore claims GEoM is a god.A god is just a title.
    He fights back against chaos.
    He’s not good, but he’s not a major sinner.
    /
    The new Spawn, however, tried to kill the god and his suit feeds off of evil.
    /
    “Larhal would try and suffer the same fate as Satanna who passed out from being inches from Ghost Rider’s flames while he was in full on everyone burns mode.”
    /
    Which demons in Disgaea sling hell-fire as an attack.
    /
    I’m pretty sure Doctor Fate can’t implant memories.
    The difference between Kaguya and the Scarlet Witch is that the Scarlet Witch and Ghost Rider have met before so it’s possible to say that he did that to Scarlet Witch.
    Kaguya, is someone who Ghost Rider never meant.
    Ghost Rider isn’t stupid either. If someone mind rapes him to believe he made Kaguya pregnant, he wouldn’t believe it since he never met this person in his life.
    /
    @FS
    “Well he isn’t going to go for his own team is he? Unless releasing the Rider makes him vengeful enough to go for any sin, which would make a lot of sense.”
    /
    But he goes after the biggest sinners in that state which is team 1.

  83. Friendlysociopath September 29, 2014 at 9:44 pm -      #483

    “But he goes after the biggest sinners in that state which is team 1.”

    If you really want to go that route, I need to know what qualifies as “Sin” for the Vengeance spirit.
    Because:
    1) Laharl is actively asked by demons to fight them to prove his strength, they do not blame him a bit beyond the whole “Crap, he’s stronger than I am” angle.
    2) GEoM has thousands sacrificed to him to save billions, no idea whether that counts as sin or not. Did he tell people he needs those sacrifices or did somebody else say it in his name?
    3) Hasn’t Bills killed a TON of people? On purpose? Laharl doesn’t even kill a majority of the people he’s fought, he just beats them up.

  84. Jake_Uzumaki September 29, 2014 at 10:09 pm -      #484

    Mojoverse is basically an entire universe that is Las Vegas, 90 percent of the sins on there were related to lust and gluttony, Wolverine who was technically on his team at the time and is a self admitted serial killer was overlooked for the entire rest of the planet.
    Dr. Strange froze an entire universe to stop an invasion, it’s unlikely the entire universe was planning to kill people. He’s sold part of his soul to a demon, and tried to do so again.

    Plus allies work together as per FP rules so he would target the other team over his own due to that. Fate isn’t above screwing with a mortal if it means he gets what he wants, so if screwing with Blaze to unleash the Rider is what it takes, he’ll do it.

    Satana is a half demon as well(just double checked) not really sure, so still not seeing why what happened to her won’t happen to Larhal if he tries to attack the rider. Devils blood is Devils blood.

  85. pimpmage September 29, 2014 at 10:11 pm -      #485

    “GEoM has thousands sacrificed to him to save billions, no idea whether that counts as sin or not. Did he tell people he needs those sacrifices or did somebody else say it in his name?”

    They are trained to give themselves up willingly. Because they love their god. It is mentioned in one of the inquisition wars novels.

  86. Friendlysociopath September 29, 2014 at 10:24 pm -      #486

    Btw, is the rest of Team 2 so irrelevant even without being speedblitzed? It’s literally been Laharl/Shadow vs the entire enemy team this whole debate- even with mental shields to stop Team 1’s mindrape and Laharl from preventing instant blitz.
    Surely someone else on Team 2 is capable of doing things?

  87. Alpha or Omega September 29, 2014 at 10:32 pm -      #487

    @Jake
    “Mojoverse is basically an entire universe that is Las Vegas, 90 percent of the sins on there were related to lust and gluttony, Wolverine who was technically on his team at the time and is a self admitted serial killer was overlooked for the entire rest of the planet.
    Dr. Strange froze an entire universe to stop an invasion, it’s unlikely the entire universe was planning to kill people. He’s sold part of his soul to a demon, and tried to do so again.”
    /
    Yet, Wolverine while a serial killer, is also a hero. In fact, nearly everyone(including heroes) have murdered people before, on accident or on purpose. He’s also stopped killing unless necessarily
    Also, in that same scan you posted, it showed that Strange put a protection on them with a time limit, so that’s why they’re not affected by the penance stare. We also see Ghost Rider going towards them and attacking the Avengers in the later scenes.
    Who’s to say that he won’t attack his own team major sinners or not.
    /
    “Plus allies work together as per FP rules so he would target the other team over his own due to that. Fate isn’t above screwing with a mortal if it means he gets what he wants, so if screwing with Blaze to unleash the Rider is what it takes, he’ll do it.”
    /
    So Fate has shown to implant memories?
    I’m aware that FP rules are there.
    However, when did that stop any mind raped people to attack their own team?
    Furthermore, we have allowed Alex Mercer to attack his team to enhance them(only difference is, they aren’t crazy)
    How would making Ghost Rider unchained and mind-raped not attack his own team?
    Also, the mind raping won’t happen if Laharl just FTL rams team 1 before they implant memories into Ghost Rider.
    /
    “Satana is a half demon as well(just double checked) not really sure, so still not seeing why what happened to her won’t happen to Larhal if he tries to attack the rider. Devils blood is Devils blood.”
    /
    As I said before, demons in Disgaea sling hell-fire at each other.
    Furthermore, Satana isn’t a FTL-er, Laharl would probably be exposed to the flames for a less amount of time since he goes FTL.
    /
    @Friendly Sociopath
    It’s literally been Laharl vs. Ghost Rider. The rest of team 1 wouldn’t survive Laharl FTL ram.

  88. pimpmage September 29, 2014 at 10:34 pm -      #488

    You are talking about speedblitzing team 2? Team 2 has time stops.

  89. Alpha or Omega September 29, 2014 at 10:41 pm -      #489

    No, team 2 is doing the speed blitzing.

  90. pimpmage September 29, 2014 at 10:56 pm -      #490

    In one of the inquisition wars books, an inquisitior walked right up to the emperor to talk with him. GEoM stopped time for a few mins to have a chat with the fellow. The emps can selectively time stop for his team.

  91. Friendlysociopath September 29, 2014 at 10:57 pm -      #491

    “Team 2 has time stops”

    Stops were banned, slowing time is allowed though, can Shadow/GEoM just slow it instead of stop it?

  92. Commander Cross September 29, 2014 at 11:11 pm -      #492

    @Friendlysociopath at #474

    Think it akin to Avada Kedavra in Gun Form, except it also destroys inanimate objects while it goes after the target being shot at.
    It can be dodged though but being hit’s no fun for anyone.

    Also, does Rand have The True Power to fall back on as well?
    It may make a difference against Current Spawn or Kaguya, I sense.

  93. Alpha or Omega September 29, 2014 at 11:16 pm -      #493

    “Stops were banned, slowing time is allowed though, can Shadow/GEoM just slow it instead of stop it?”
    /
    Shadow can slow time, but he can just time travel instead of time stop in Super form as I mentioned several times before.

  94. wingedlion September 29, 2014 at 11:26 pm -      #494

    “So, yea… Asura’s pretty frigging crazy. Somewhat Relevant sense IIRC Yasha>Asura in supposedly every aspect IIRC.”

    no he’s not.
    not since the power-up near the end of the game.
    even before that they were pretty much equals, with yasha having an edge in speed and asura having an edge in strength.

    also i’m confused. why would making blaze believe he got bayonetta pregnant make him go unchained?

  95. wingedlion September 29, 2014 at 11:42 pm -      #495

    “also i’m confused. why would making blaze believe he got bayonetta pregnant make him go unchained?”

    not that it actually matters, since like i said before, the SoV will come out simply because team 2 have a demon lord on their side.

  96. Friendlysociopath September 30, 2014 at 12:14 am -      #496

    “not that it actually matters, since like i said before, the SoV will come out simply because team 2 have a demon lord on their side.”

    Somehow I doubt the SoV just pops out every time a demon shows up. Also, how would GR even know that Laharl is a demon?
    Demons in Disgaea don’t even equal demons from Marvel- Demons in Disgaea are used by angels to instill fear into humanity so humanity doesn’t destroy the world- they’re like scary lunchroom monitors that can star-bust.

  97. wingedlion September 30, 2014 at 12:24 am -      #497

    “Somehow I doubt the SoV just pops out every time a demon shows up. Also, how would GR even know that Laharl is a demon?”

    but laharl isn’t just some demon. he’s a demon overlord. and FP rules state characters get a general rundown on who they are facing( of course nothing specific). it would at least tell him that laharl is some kind of demon lord. and that’s the type of stuff the SoV comes out for.

    “Demons in Disgaea don’t even equal demons from Marvel”

    i have no doubt, but ghost rider doesn’t know that.

  98. Friendlysociopath September 30, 2014 at 1:00 am -      #498

    So I found some of the threads around here- Yasha and Asura are like Thor-level? Damn, I need to play that game. So he’s not useless here, good.

    Bayonetta can slow time as well correct? So that’s another time slow for Team 2. I read somewhere around here that she has massive amounts of force behind her attacks- like country-busting amounts, was that true?

    If only Rahl or Rand could actually hit anybody on Team 1 with their hax magic…

    What can Nihilus do?

  99. Alpha or Omega September 30, 2014 at 1:10 am -      #499

    “Bayonetta can slow time as well correct? So that’s another time slow for Team 2.”
    /
    Yes, she can slow time to the point where it seems like time isn’t moving.
    /
    “I read somewhere around here that she has massive amounts of force behind her attacks- like country-busting amounts, was that true?”
    /
    Not true. OriginalA disproved it.

  100. Cassie Hack September 30, 2014 at 2:54 am -      #500

    Hoping for some more info in regards to Bayo in the next few weeks

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