Kharn the Betrayer Vs Link

Kharn the Betrayer Vs Link

On the surface, this might seem like a slam-dunk victory for Kharn. But part of what makes him vicious is also his weakness. With his chaotic attacks, I think in time Link would be able to hold off until an opportunity to strike Kharn would become apparent.

It would not be a quick fight, but in the end, the warrior from Hyrule would be the victor.

What say you?

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658 Comments on "Kharn the Betrayer Vs Link"

  1. Matapiojo January 16, 2009 at 9:23 am -      #201

    Woa, woa, woa

    This has been by far the post with the absolute most entries based on pure speculation I have seen in this site thus far.

    “Since the triforce is the power of a god(ess) and a god has the power to create and destroy and cause everything in existance to vanish instantly.”


    This is beyond ignorant. Throughout the history of humankind, the evidence found from their beliefs indicate that the great majority of deities that were in man’s psyche did not show any ability of divining anything into existence. Most of the higher beings the human psyche conceived as a collective dominated over a single aspect of the emotions they have experienced themselves. Unless I can be corrected, I never read anything involving Ares where he demonstrated the divine power of creation. Nor was this the case with Hathor, Vili and Vé, Quirinus, Saraswati, Xuan Wu, and many, many others.

    You are mistakenly comparing the word god to equal our modern belief in the one omnipotent GOD, but this had not been the case for many millennia before someone decided to come up with the concept. Even then, Christian phylosophy is not absolute in modern society. A good portion of humanity still believes in a multitude of deities, composing several different pantheons to form part of our collective psyche.

    So far, the world of the Legend of Zelda has NOT presented any being to equal the status of our One-God. Every superior being that has had a hand to play within Link’s story shares qualities with gods that form part of a larger pantheon. The fact that three goddesses, as opposed to the belief of the ONE Christian God, needed to coordinate their powers to create Link’s world means that their divining abilities are not absolute.

    “Would Link just be able to break the triforce of courage and thus bring about the end of everything. Or use his piece to take the full of the godess of courages power and then take the godess of wisdom and powers energy who would willingly give up themselves to him. Thus causing him to have the strength of 3 gods.”

    Are you high?

    When has Link shown the ability to absorb any of this? The very nature of the Triforce is to maintain the balance the original goddesses intended to have in their realm. The very fact that in each and every game of LoZ Link has set out in a quest to maintain that balance completely negates what you just proposed.

    The same three goddesses you speak of giving their power freely have only ever granted Link a miniscule fraction of their essence. These deities would never impart their full powers onto a mortal.

    Your concept is simply preposterous.

    ” Then he could take the power from his masks which he has control over and take the powers of each entity in them thus multiplying his power even farther especially with the Fierce Deitys power which is that of an extremely old war god (which is why he was sealed away in the first place) and then he can take the power of the Oracles and all of his magical weapons such as the staff of seasons and power braclet. Thus causing him to become even more powerful.”

    Again, where the hell do you get the idea that Link is a god-sponge?

    Link has only demonstrated the ability to act as a temporary vessel to CHANNEL the energies bound to magical items. We have not seen him extract these energies and wield them within himself, then discarding the physical source. On top of that, he can wield ONE, only ONE mask at a time.

    Clearly my sugar metaphor escaped you. I invite you to go and read that one again (assuming you read it once…I admit I may be mistaken here). The power of the Fierce Deity as a “war-god” pales in comparison to Khorne. End of story.
    Please let that one die, Zelda fans.

    “Just because he hasnt yet done this doesnt mean he cant. If he did then there wouldnt be much of a game to play seeing as this course of action would make Link the most powerful being in existance after he (now able to do this) moves on the take the power of every god, goddess, and object of power he wants into himself.”

    You have an uncanny ability of causing major migraines to people that can actually think logically. Link has stared at the certain doom of everything he knows and holds dear in each and every game that has been released for LoZ. If he COULD have done it, he WOULD have done it.




    “I dictate that Link is now the winner. After he does these vast tasks in all of about a minute. The first tasks will be done in about a quarter of a second. He will return everything to normal and return home.”

    I will go with no, and I can pretty much guarantee that you will see very little, if any, support on your latest catastrophe of a post.

    Well at least I hope not, but this wouldn’t be the first time I would be disappointed by the cognitive abilities of the majority of posters that frequent this digital realm.

  2. L-W January 16, 2009 at 10:06 am -      #202

    I didn’t think it would be possible for Kira to reach any further into the realms of supposition, yet depressingly enough, he has.

    I find it a horrifying, neigh, disgusting thought that out in the great world a Government body is squandering precious resources and dipping into its own national treasury to school Kira. Is anyone else feeling robbed by the fact that over $100,000 worth of tax payers money, YOUR money, is being wasted on this fraudulent variant of hominid, disingenuously passed as one of us?

    I’m going to make this quick and simple so you can follow:

    1) First failure of tonight. The Gods of Hyrule are not comparable, nor do they share traits comparable to the Judo-Christian depiction of God as the holy trinity. You discarded this concept when you previously assigned each Hyrulian God an individual trait demonstrative to only individual notions and customs depicted in Hyrulian society.

    Does that sound like the Judo-christian God to you?

    2) Failure the second. Link has none of the abilities or traits as you described; and not only is he not depicted as possessing any of them, but has been proven to be impossible for Link to accomplish.

    To claim anything else is pure conjecture.

    3) Did you suffer a stroke whilst writing that last segment? Either that or drug abuse could only answer for such an embarrassing case of delusion.

    – – –

    My word Kira, your entire post…Scratch that. Your entire philosophy on life can only be judged as a train wreck, I’ve run into some interesting characters during my short but eventful life as a pioneer of the internet…

    …Pirates, bigots, Nazis, Neo-Nazis, vampires, Bush supporters, hardcore fetish enthusiasts, survivalists, Neo-Fascists, Proto-Communists, RPers, overtly zealous Star Trek nerds, anime porn enthusiasts, bestiality, incest, terrorist recruitment agencies, shemale/transvestite porn, distributed videos of individuals committing suicide, images of various forms of impalement, the most deprived racist acts witnessed by man, various forms of midget on (Blank) sexual intercourse, 2012 conspiracy theorists, Chuck Norris joke writers and Goatse…

    But this is the first time that I’ve ever actually felt nauseous from witnessing something on the internet. Something so depressing that it would cause me to revert my stance on abortion from “Pro-Choice” to “Everyone gets an abortion regardless”. Something so depraved that I am willing to volunteer my time to hand out hand grenades and firearms to school children, something so apathy inducing that I may have to spike the global water supply with Valium.

    – – –

    My post may seem like one meaningless diatribe, and you’d be right in saying so. But at least we can agree on one thing, it is still makes more sense than the catastrophic post delivered onto us by Kira.

  3. AlphaCommando January 16, 2009 at 10:29 am -      #203

    Triple-team SMACKDOWN!…..again!

    Also; harsh L-W; and by “harsh” I mean that was the epitome of insult.

  4. Matapiojo January 16, 2009 at 10:30 am -      #204

    Once more…

    Decimated by the L-Bomb x3!

  5. Matapiojo January 16, 2009 at 10:35 am -      #205

    “Also; harsh L-W; and by “harsh” I mean that was the epitome of insult.”

    And by that he means…


  6. L-W January 16, 2009 at 10:38 am -      #206

    I’m an artist of the forked tongue.

    Either way, we need some form of collective moniker. I would have suggested the “Three Amigos”, except for only two problems.

    1) I cannot get over the homosexual connotations of the name.

    2) I hate Chevy Chase.

    Any suggestions?

  7. Matapiojo January 16, 2009 at 11:36 am -      #207

    “Either way, we need some form of collective moniker. I would have suggested the “Three Amigos”, except for only two problems.

    1) I cannot get over the homosexual connotations of the name.

    2) I hate Chevy Chase.”

    And you know very well that you would be the one directly associated with Chase…

    In any case, I agree on the disaproval of the “Three Amigos”.

    Hhhmmmm, I’ll have to get back to you on this one.

  8. Matapiojo January 16, 2009 at 12:54 pm -      #208

    Well, I already mentioned the “L-Bomb x3″. How about these others:

    “The Conjecture Jihad”

    “Pile O’ Reason”

    “Factual Trinity”

    “Where did I put my /Sarcasm?”

    “BankGambling Primarchs”

    “Logic Astartes”

    “Ordo Stupidicus”

  9. KiraMasteroftheNote January 16, 2009 at 4:17 pm -      #209

    Srry guys. I was drinking when I made that particular post.

    As for your epic counter arguments against my horrible crashing leap through the internet places i frequent often. I normally just stay on the /b/ and make havoc there where no harm can be done. Also bravo to the 3 of you. I picked apart all of the holes in my argument as well as I think is possible.

    I have gone back and read my own work and found it totally out of proportion. Not only did I vastly overstate the power of the goddesses and various other such things. Also I found your own posts to be rather funny and enlightening.

  10. L-W January 16, 2009 at 7:25 pm -      #210

    I vote for the moniker “Factual Trinity”, since I don’t want to shoehorn myself into 40K related discussions only.

  11. That one dude January 16, 2009 at 9:47 pm -      #211

    Announcer: Today’s fight we have hyrulien’s protector Link versus the 10,000+ year old walking tank Kharn the Betrayer.

    Crowd: wooo!!! yeah!!! Woohoo!!!

    Fanboys/Girls of Link: we love you Link!!!

    Announcer: Now let the fight begin!!!!!!

    [a couple seconds later the crowd sees what seems to be whats left of link on the ground]

    [fanboys and girls of Link start screaming and crying seeing link’s mutilated body]

    Person in Crowd: What the Hell I payed $20 to watch a fight that didn’t even last a second!!!

  12. Space marine January 16, 2009 at 10:43 pm -      #212

    It was $20 well spent.

    “Where did I put my /Sarcasm?”

    It’s the Dumb-busters! ;)

  13. x on January 16, 2009 at 11:44 pm -      #213

    Ya but after kharn killed link he’d go after the crowd.

  14. KiraMasteroftheNote January 17, 2009 at 3:00 am -      #214

    “Announcer: Today’s fight we have hyrulien’s protector Link versus the 10,000+ year old walking tank Kharn the Betrayer.

    Crowd: wooo!!! yeah!!! Woohoo!!!

    Fanboys/Girls of Link: we love you Link!!!

    Announcer: Now let the fight begin!!!!!!

    [a couple seconds later the crowd sees what seems to be whats left of link on the ground]

    [fanboys and girls of Link start screaming and crying seeing link’s mutilated body]

    Person in Crowd: What the Hell I payed $20 to watch a fight that didn’t even last a second!!!”

    *Suddenly the sky opens up and the power of everything in existance resurrects Link into a creature far greater than all other powers in all of time combined and the Link fans are absorbed into the great beast adding to the already ungodly power and forming Ultima Link*

    *Kharn sensing his end makes his full transformation destroying the planet, but at the same time only growing to the size of the Ultima Links would be ankle as the great beast has no real body and is pure sentient power*

    Ultima Link: *In the voice of all beings that ever have and ever will be* KHARN! YOU HAVE DEFEATED MY BODY BUT I SHALL NOW USE THE FULL OF MY POWER!!!! *Smashes his mighty claws into the piece of planet that Kharn has takes a futile stand on instantly destroying him and taking all of his power* I AM WON AND NOW ALL BEINGS WILL LIVE IN ETERNAL PEACE AND I WILL RETURN HOME TO LIVE IN THE FOREST!!!!!! *He releases all of the energy that he absorbed except that of Kharn and his blood god Khorne, sealing them away in a dark necklace that gives dark power to all that wear it in honor of his powerful and dark foe and then begins on his journey home whistling a tune of the secrets of the universe all the way*

    I wanted to kinda add a bit to the story that I think my trashed self would have liked. And I think I did him proud.

  15. L-W January 17, 2009 at 8:41 am -      #215

    There is a difference between you sober and drunk? I haven’t noticed since your postings are of practically the same caliber.

  16. Matapiojo January 17, 2009 at 11:04 am -      #216

    “I wanted to kinda add a bit to the story that I think my trashed self would have liked. And I think I did him proud.”

    Admirable attempt…..


    “Ya but after kharn killed link he’d go after the crowd.”

    Oh so very true. The second anyone makes a sound after the Berzerker’s slaughter-high, he would turn and butcher the source without any remorse.

    Oh yea, did I mention that a heartbeat is all the sound he needs?

    “I vote for the moniker “Factual Trinity”, since I don’t want to shoehorn myself into 40K related discussions only.”

    Aww, but I was so fond of “Ordo Stupidicus”.

    I second “Factual Trinity”, has a nice ring to it and topical relevance to the site. Alpha?

  17. Space marine January 17, 2009 at 11:33 am -      #217

    Ultima Link: *In the voice of all beings that ever have and ever will be* KHARN! YOU HAVE DEFEATED MY BODY BUT I SHALL NOW USE THE FULL OF MY POWER!!!! *Smashes his mighty claws into the piece of planet that Kharn has takes a futile stand on instantly destroying him and taking all of his power* I AM WON AND NOW ALL BEINGS WILL LIVE IN ETERNAL PEACE AND I WILL RETURN HOME TO LIVE IN THE FOREST!!!!!! *He releases all of the energy that he absorbed except that of Kharn and his blood god Khorne, sealing them away in a dark necklace that gives dark power to all that wear it in honor of his powerful and dark foe and then begins on his journey home whistling a tune of the secrets of the universe all the way*

    I wanted to kinda add a bit to the story that I think my trashed self would have liked. And I think I did him proud.

    Why does your “Trashed” self even read?
    Stay with the smart Kira….

  18. AlphaCommando January 17, 2009 at 4:00 pm -      #218

    I was never a huge fan of the word “trinity,” I don’t know why; its just sounds wrong in most applications….

    But sure, all take that name.

    Also; Ordo Stupidicus would mean “Order of the Stupid” (if stupidicus was a word), so I don’t think we would want that as a name….

  19. The One Sin January 17, 2009 at 6:57 pm -      #219

    Kira, I read your “bit to the story” to the story and I have a question: What in Fuck’s name are you on about? I mean I’ve seen people have an episode of tourrette syndrome and still manage to make more sense than that.

    “Srry guys. I was drinking when I made that particular post.”

    excuses, excuses.

  20. Space marine January 18, 2009 at 10:09 am -      #220

    “Kharn sensing his end makes his full transformation destroying the planet, but at the same time only growing to the size of the Ultima Links would be ankle as the great beast has no real body and is pure sentient power*”


    after the planet is destroyed?

    Epic Fail.

  21. Matapiojo January 18, 2009 at 10:36 am -      #221


    I am aware of what “Ordo Stupidicus” (would) mean if we consider the actual meaning of the word ordo. This was a sad attempt on twisting the Empire’s Inquisition to our needs. It all parted from GW’s incorrect use of the term.

    Ordo Xenos = Alien hunters
    Ordo Hereticus = Witch hunters
    Ordo Malleus = Daemon hunters


    Ordo Stupidicus = Idiot hunter…

    Ultimately, I agree with L-W. We shouldn’t pigeonhole ourselves to a 40k theme. It just seemed funny to me at the time.

    I can also sympathize with the distaste of “Trinity”, by all means provide alternatives to the suggestion.

  22. admin January 18, 2009 at 12:37 pm -      #222

    Food for thought: What about a BankGambling Triumvirate?

  23. AlphaCommando January 18, 2009 at 7:54 pm -      #223

    That fits and sounds way better than “Trinity”.

    Tho L-W is definitely the Cesar of said Triumvirate….

  24. SteelFury January 18, 2009 at 9:54 pm -      #224

    Just joining in here, spent about 2 hours reading through this post and ya know, wow, just wow, I can’t belive this debat was still on past comment 20.

    Anywho 8 year 40k vet, and this is my version of what happens:

    Link hides behind his mirror shield like a p#ssy, and Kharn can’t penetrate it, (for this arguments sake lets just role with it). Kharn gets frustrade and opens a warp portal (not the nintendo kind) onto a emperor class battle ship, Slaughters the crue, and pilots it into Hyrule, jumping out hundreds of feet up to land on a mountian before the plasma reactors go up and incinorate hundereds of square kilometers of the planet. Link dies crapping his pants as the armoured prow of a billion ton starship is not repelled by his mirror shield.

    Anywho, Id like to change topics back to armies in 40k but i don’t see that as happening. But anyway:

    I dropped alot of money into a greyknights army and, for all their points cost and physical cost, they suck pretty hard against everything except chaos. Ad now that demons are a sperate book they only work well against them.

    And for christ sake don’t get me started on the new Space marine codex!

  25. SteelFury January 18, 2009 at 9:55 pm -      #225

    F#ck my spelling sucks hard, should have proof read.

  26. L-W January 18, 2009 at 10:38 pm -      #226

    Triumvirate? I like it. I like it a lot.

    But who of the remaining two shall be Crassus and Magnus?

  27. AlphaCommando January 18, 2009 at 10:55 pm -      #227

    Well does it matter? If history repeats itself we’ll all end up assassinated in due time.

    But seriously; I’ll take the Crassus…I think, I’m not to familiar with the personalities of the other two.

  28. L-W January 18, 2009 at 11:39 pm -      #228

    As always, I’m a stickler for incessant details.

  29. Matapiojo January 19, 2009 at 1:09 am -      #229

    What, are you saying they didn’t flip coins back then? I say flip an Aureus.


    Grey Knights suck no matter how you look at it, and SM can only retain their “superior” army status because of the Assault Cannons. Take those away and the Ultramarines are going to be hurting bad. Seems like ASScannons is all I see for the last couple of years.

    All I say is that my Obliterators already have the weapon modeled onto them. How hard would it be for GW to include it in their profile? They already butchered our Codex enough, how much worse would that change be?

  30. Space marine January 19, 2009 at 5:04 am -      #230

    The Human in question depicted in the novels was an Imperial Guard scout under the command of the Inquisitor, who mouthed off a few things that not even a Space Marine should ever hear in the midst of cleansing a planet.

    “Despite his optical relay augmentations (He was a scout after all) and his hardened and exponentially denser synaptic nerve relay, coupled with the fact that he was deliberately provoking the Marine for a response; lest to say they made it a poignant fact as to how quickly he could move across the room and choke the living crap out of him.

    Now take this variable and apply the ability to void the laws of physics that would slow down conventional Space Marines.”

    What? What’s the novel’s name……I wanna see the Provoking of the marine.

  31. SteelFury January 19, 2009 at 11:32 am -      #231


    Whadda ya mean filled with assault cannons? the only extra thing that has Assult cannons that I remeber in SM (other than terminators) are the dreadnaught and the Landradier crusader. Both of which are in the DH codex, and both of which make mighty fire magnets for every broadside, lascanon, battle cannon, and necron warrior in the game. (in 4th edition you could roll alot of 6s in one round of rapid fire from a ten man warrior squad, Bastards)

    I prefer greynight termies anyway, since I have encredibly poor luck with attacking last in combat.

    They changed the glancing rules in 5th didn’t they? I haven’t read through the new rules as much as I probably should have.

  32. Matapiojo January 20, 2009 at 10:39 am -      #232

    To me, one Assault Cannon is one too many. Rending should have never been made ranged. I am aware that the Necron’s Gauss weapons opened up to this particular can of worms (and GW couldn’t let their golden child be out-staged), but Rending should have stayed in the realm of hand to hand combat.

  33. SteelFury January 20, 2009 at 4:56 pm -      #233

    Thats a good point. I forgot that they were rending, since I rarely use them anyway. But In assult only? That would mean that the only race that could make any effective use of the rending rules would be the tyranids, and it’s not like their units don’t already outclass every other armies units in assult as it is.

    Having re-read through the 5th ed rules last night, I notice somethign rather auppaling. I does not state under the sniper rules that they hit on 2+. It doesn’t say they don’t, but it doesn’t say they do, either. I say this only because that makes my scout snipers uselss, as their main role in my army was to harrass and wound large creatures like hive tyrants and carnifexes. since their ability to due such has gone down 10%, it seems like their points would be better spent on a devastator squad with lascannons.

    And my sniper special weapon gaurd squads are even more useless now as well.

    God I hate rule changes, every time I create an effecive strategy new rules or another codex comes along and destroys it within a month.

  34. Space marine January 23, 2009 at 11:24 pm -      #234

    Why not make a regular SM army then?

  35. Space marine January 24, 2009 at 10:05 pm -      #235

    And I keep wondering, WHAT THE HELL Happened to Angrons Chain-axe gorefather?

  36. Matapiojo January 25, 2009 at 9:30 am -      #236

    That’s a good question. I have not read anything on that particular topic, but I assume it was left behind when Angron was finally banished to the warp by the Grey Knights in the first war in Armageddon.

    Gorefather could very well be in the possession of the Grey Knights for safekeeping.

  37. Space marine January 25, 2009 at 9:59 pm -      #237

    Maybe Kharn has it now???
    I hope so.

    Imagine Kharn, Now imagine Kharn with Two Chain-Axes.

  38. Jwlynas January 25, 2009 at 11:02 pm -      #238

    Kharn with two chainaxes….and not just Chainaxes. Gorefather and Gorechild…

    …I think Khorne just doubled in power, and was then overthrown by Kharn…


  39. Space marine January 25, 2009 at 11:29 pm -      #239

    DANM STRAIGHT! :twisted:

  40. x on January 26, 2009 at 12:35 am -      #240

    If that ever happed then 40k is gone Kharn will kill ever thing!!!!

  41. Cpt Olimar January 26, 2009 at 2:52 am -      #241

    Since when did Zelda fans drop down to the intelligence level of Halo Fanboys :(
    I have read most of the “important” posts in this argument and have come to only one conclusion… but let’s make this a bit more interesting….

    Just humor me with these pre-conditions that would never happen.
    1) Kharn is 6 feet tall (like link) Its not true… but lets just pretend….
    2) the fight is in a “coliseum” of sorts
    3) (as a joke) link has 999 revives….. (lol)
    4) the combatants walk up “close” to each other as the Countdown begins in the match
    5) Kharn doesn’t have any blood blessing from any Gods (even though he does)

    As the announcer says “fight” link decides to pullout his bow and as he does so he gets sliced by the gorechild (?) from behind and dies…

    Upon being revived he gets chopped again ect….
    He decides to change strategies and instead of using his bow, he does a sword spin. Surprisingly….link still dies….. but “injures” Kharn in his unarmored section of his body (arm?) Kharn… enraged that he actually felt pain from this elf going into a fury in which linkhas no time to even sword spin before he dies. However this rage only for 500 of Link’s lives. Afterwards, he lets up for a moment. Link shoots him with a light arrow and he takes even more damage. Now he went from angered to humiliated by this elf’s persistence and kills his other 500 lives..

    Kharn wins…..
    For any “link wins” fans out there… think of Kharn’s speed like DBZ characters….. blinking behind you. I don’t play WH40K but this is what it sounds like to me….

    I am a real Zelda fan and I can already tell I LIKE Link a ton better than I like this Kharn character… however, like depressed MC fanboys grudgingly admitted in SAMUS vs MC, Link cant even pretend to take this “overpowered” beast. ITs literally just not fair. Think of this like…LINK vs Keese. Ok so if link stands there for an hour… he will die to it (earlier mentions about link’s dying to Keese were somewhat innacurate considering that with full hearts and defense it would take like 40 hits or more…) so if Kharn stand there for an hour… maybe 1000 light arrows might do his arm in….possibly Maybe Link hookshotting himself on his armor and slice his arm might work…. but literally this is all if Kharn is doing absolutely nothing. This was a silly fight to suggest…. Magic USUALLY trumps tech… and it seems like Kharn has some magic on his side anyway

    Kharn wins hands down…..

  42. Jwlynas January 26, 2009 at 3:29 am -      #242

    And we’ll all be granted with the beautiful image of a man on a mission, a mission to decpaitate the entire multiverse…*Tear of happiness, followed by existential, and fully validated, Dread*

  43. Space marine January 26, 2009 at 5:19 am -      #243

    I think gore-father is bigger then gorechild. Kharn always has room for a bigger Chain-axe.

  44. Matapiojo January 26, 2009 at 8:11 am -      #244

    Like I said, I doubt that’s the case. Angron fell in the prescence of 100 Grey Knights. These fanatics would have either destroyed the weapon (assuming that it didnt leave with Angron to the warp), or have it tucked away in some long forgotten anti-daemon vault.

    Kharn would not want anything to do with several dozen Grey Knights, much less the hundreds that would be guarding such a vault (that most likely holds MUCH more than simply Gorefather).

    In any case, as I have an understanding, Gorefather is so massive that Kharn would not be able to wield both weapons. In addition, Daemon Weapons don’t generally get along. I doubt they would allow for their influence on a mortal to be shared.

    ….It is still quite a humorous thought.

  45. Jwlynas January 26, 2009 at 10:33 am -      #245

    And lets face it, the man who burnt an entire world to ruin, sundering his own legion, still has yet to get a handflamer. The chances of him grabbing the gorefather are quite slim.

    … Thats always been a sore point. Damn lack of fire…

    Anyway, I think this myth has officially been busted. Kharn wins.

    Who’s up for a celebratory celebration?

  46. x on January 26, 2009 at 2:18 pm -      #246

    Me im up for one but theres got to be alot of skull cups…

  47. Matapiojo January 26, 2009 at 2:47 pm -      #247

    “Me im up for one but theres got to be alot of skull cups…”

    Skull Blood-Challice>Jesus Wine Cup

  48. Space marine January 26, 2009 at 10:21 pm -      #248

    “Skull Blood-Challice>Jesus Wine Cup”


    Skull Blood-Challice>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Link.

  49. KiraMasteroftheNote January 29, 2009 at 12:30 am -      #249

    @Cpt Olimar.

    You traitor. How dare you call yourself a Link fan. A true Link fan would never give up like those gay MC fans. For we have HONOR and not just normal honor. The kind of honor that never allows you to admit defeat. The kind of honor that if it comes to it you just stick your fingers in your ears and yell until your opponent gets bored and leaves, thus leaving you to claim victory.

    I laugh at your nessosity.

  50. marche January 29, 2009 at 2:00 pm -      #250

    “The kind of honor that never allows you to admit defeat. The kind of honor that if it comes to it you just stick your fingers in your ears and yell until your opponent gets bored and leaves, thus leaving you to claim victory.”

    thanks,you made me laugh today

  51. swifterdeath January 29, 2009 at 3:29 pm -      #251

    “You traitor. How dare you call yourself a Link fan. A true Link fan would never give up like those gay MC fans. For we have HONOR and not just normal honor. The kind of honor that never allows you to admit defeat. The kind of honor that if it comes to it you just stick your fingers in your ears and yell until your opponent gets bored and leaves, thus leaving you to claim victory.

    I laugh at your nessosity.”

    sure does look like you gave up though. so your claiming not to be a true link fan? i knew it the whole time. ok self note…we have Four idiots on this site. Herooftime-kiramasterofthenote-hotshot-and that starwars guy…

    hero is gone (thank god)
    Kira is poping up every now and then
    Hotshot is doing the same as kira
    and that starwars guy is the new menace…

    so i think we are doing pretty good…now i only need to plan the starwar guys downfall…

  52. Matapiojo January 29, 2009 at 3:41 pm -      #252

    “The kind of honor that if it comes to it you just stick your fingers in your ears and yell until your opponent gets bored and leaves, thus leaving you to claim victory.”

    Who left?


  53. Cpt Olimar January 29, 2009 at 3:50 pm -      #253

    LOLOLOLOLOL these last 4 posts made me laugh so hard… I almost died.

    Uh… well Kira.. if I had Link versus every other known character in existence, are you going to seriously argue that Link would win? This is the kind of fanboy trash I would expect from HALO players. I was under the impression that Zelda fans were slightly more intelligent on average…. apparently not. And by the way Kira.. you do remind me exactly of a MC fanboy… like HotShot… your exactly like him.
    TO prove to you that I am a zelda fan… I think OoT is the best game ever made hands down no questions asked. OK? It doesn’t mean Link is the strongest character ever made, which is probably one of the many reasons why I like the Zelda games so much.

  54. Space marine January 29, 2009 at 4:43 pm -      #254

    “I think OoT is the best game ever ”

  55. Matapiojo January 30, 2009 at 9:12 am -      #255

    “I think OoT is the best game ever ”

    I dunno, I think I like Majora’s best. I know a lot of people bashed it, but I thought it was really, really enjoyable.


  56. Marche January 30, 2009 at 10:41 am -      #256

    “I dunno, I think I like Majora’s best. I know a lot of people bashed it, but I thought it was really, really enjoyable.”

    people didnt really like it because it took a turn into the darkworld,regardless it certainly was harder than OoT.

  57. Matapiojo January 30, 2009 at 11:49 am -      #257

    See, those are the two factors that made me like it better than OoT and why its still up there. Granted, I have not played any LoZ from Windwaker onward…

    I want to sink my teeth into Twilight pricess, but WoW just sucks away my time. the missus couldn’t handle me doing both WoW and long console games.

  58. Cpt Olimar January 30, 2009 at 2:22 pm -      #258

    TP is a really, really solid game. I had personal “problems” with the game ( not it being too hard…. just too abstract for me at the time. Maybe if i Played it now….) I still think it is a great game..but it only had 4 temples with easy bosses and the whole mask idea was just weird for me. Fierce Deity and Great Fairy Sword is a load of huge BS. No reason for OP stuff to be in it. Excluding that.. majora was a hard boss (I fought him with basic sword and like 3/4 of max hp). I mean it was a nice game,but I thought the wonder of exploring and the dungeons in OoT were much better.

    However, if you are a fan of side questing… then MM is definitely for you (Bomber kids ftw). Although i must admit… the astral observatory is a complete win in that game. The looks…. the music are both amazing. Either way… all Zelda games own except for the absolutely awful CD-I ones…oh my gosh. Imagine that Link against Kharne… Ha Ha that would be so much better.
    “I’m so hungry I could eat an octorok.”

  59. Cpt Olimar January 30, 2009 at 2:40 pm -      #259

    oh by the way… after my first sentence I am talking about Majora’s Mask not Twilight Princess.

  60. Matapiojo January 31, 2009 at 3:12 pm -      #260

    S’all good. I gathered enough.

    Im certainly gonna pick up TP before the year is over. Maybe right after I decide to give WoW a rest…

    oh, and before I forget. Kharn slaughters Link….

  61. Space marine February 1, 2009 at 3:38 am -      #261

    “oh, and before I forget. Kharn slaughters Link….”
    Me too…

  62. Matapiojo February 2, 2009 at 8:18 pm -      #262

    Well, I think I am ready to nominate Kharn, the Betrayer for a BankGambling Award for his victory over Link, the Hero of Time.

    This message has been approved by the BankGambling Triumvirate. May the admin have mercy on Link’s soul.

  63. admin February 2, 2009 at 10:01 pm -      #263

    Nomination noted…

  64. L-W February 4, 2009 at 1:12 am -      #264

    Ah, finally a BankGambling award.

    The internet has gotten that bit brighter with its appearance.

    LOL – great to see you back, L-W – Admin

  65. Space marine February 4, 2009 at 2:07 am -      #265

    Kharn eats that FP award anyday……He has 4 million already, Another to the collection. XD

  66. L-W February 4, 2009 at 2:31 am -      #266

    He has plenty of Skulls, but no BankGambling plaques.

    Glad to be back Admin, but I needed a good long vacation,

  67. KiraMasteroftheNote February 6, 2009 at 12:31 am -      #267

    Srry for the forever to reply. I forgot about you guys. Personally. The original LoZ game for the NES was my favorite. As for Kharn. I think he should get an award. Im not saying hes beaten Link. But I think he could easily bash plenty of other enemies to a bloody pulp. Back to LoZ. MM is not to terribly high on my list of likes. It did have the masks which I thought was fun. But the going back in time thing was a bit annoying. And by a bit I mean I WANTED TO SNAP THE DISC IN HALF. I have beaten TP and rather enjoyed it. But I think that it could have been better. OoT is my second favorite without a doubt.

    On the subject of me giving up and also of being a fanboy.
    1. I have not given up. But im also not going to resort to spamming you all with “LINK WINS. GET OVER IT”. Thats just sad and stupid. Also. MC fanboys can all burn in hell. Of course they arent actually smart enough to understand what Hell is.
    2. Im not actually a fanboy. Im a fan. But not a fanboy. There is a difference you know. I actually have better things to do than discuss LoZ all day with my friends. Like discussing whether or not Gundams should have clothes. Or the possibility of a 4 dimensional Rubics cube.

  68. Cpt Olimar February 6, 2009 at 2:39 am -      #268

    oh my gosh… 4D rubics cube….. ugh a 3D 3×3 cube is hard enough. All the memorizing of patterns… 4×4 is really hard.
    Nice to see your being sane again….if you read your earlier post to me now im sure you might cringe a little.
    I’m surprised you like NES the best! The people who prefer it are rare to come by. I’m playing it through now and boy is it hard. I think I have racked up 66 deaths after just beating the 5th dungeon.

    I would like to say this relating to the match….If a boss in zelda looked like Kharne, that would be an awesome boss fight for sure.

  69. L-W February 6, 2009 at 8:58 am -      #269

    Technically, Rubik cubes are already four dimensional.

    As for the BankGambling award, it dictates the victor of the proposed match, not just for any achievement in general.

    The admin has spoken! Kharn is the winner!

  70. KiraMasteroftheNote February 6, 2009 at 4:49 pm -      #270

    L-W. Yes. Technically a rubics cube is already 4D but i ment one where it actually has a 4th dimension to solve. Of course that would mean we would have to be able to see such a dimension.

    The award for winner to this match was deserved of by Kharn. But only because you guys beat me. Not Kharn beat Link. Just remember that. Even if it was a little unfair. I mean. The Link support kinda faded in and out for the whole thing but the Kharn blackup just stayed in the whole time. But alright. For NOW I guess Kharn wins. But I will one day think of something. Or if I must one day during my vast video game creating and directing career make a LoZ game and give Link something to slay this mighty man/god. But until that time…

  71. L-W February 7, 2009 at 1:37 am -      #271

    1) We can witness a fourth dimension, you just have to pay attention to the fact that you’ve done so. In fact by just moving the cube an inch to its right is justification to witnessing its movement through the fourth dimension. Never mind doing something as rash to destroy it, or dissolve in an acidic solution.

    Heck, by just looking from top to bottom on my post, you’ve just witnessed the movement of an object through the fourth dimension.

    2) You have all the time in the world to think of something. But remember, Games Workshop will be always be ten steps ahead of you.

  72. KiraMasteroftheNote February 7, 2009 at 12:05 pm -      #272

    L-W. Are you a physicist?

    Ive been to to Games Workshop. I was wholly disappointed. I was expecting more than Warhammer and LotR. I had to go to a Borders to get what I was looking for.

  73. Matapiojo February 7, 2009 at 1:06 pm -      #273

    Wait, no.

    “The award for winner to this match was deserved of by Kharn. But only because you guys beat me. Not Kharn beat Link. Just remember that.”

    You are dense. We didn’t beat you. LOGIC beat you. The award is given to the character that logically defeated his/her oponent within the arguments made by both sides for the scenario presented.

    We did not aim to demonstrate how much smarter we were than you (though that is a happy side effect), we aimed to determine what character would dominate on a combat match.

    You continue clinging to ludicrous ideas that might shine a light at the end of the proverbial tunnel of Link’s defeat here. Link was beat, there will be another day and another fight for him, but against this foe, the battle is done.

    Remember THAT.

  74. Cpt Olimar February 7, 2009 at 1:09 pm -      #274

    L-W are you referring to time? I am not a strong believer in the 13 dimensions string theory has summoned, so could you specify which dimension you are referring to? Anyway, you knew what I meant by 3D opposed to 4D cube :(
    Regardless, congratulations to Kharne, after defeated the hope of Hyrule in a one on one fight. Hyrule will not forever fear the wrath of the Blood God’s champion.

    (until a new Link comes who is stronger!!!! *joke*)

  75. L-W February 8, 2009 at 12:11 am -      #275

    Yep, I’m referring to time.

    String theory and M-theory predict that physical space in general has in fact 10 and 11 dimensions, respectively. The thirteen supposed time dilation dimensions are actually one and the same of the fourth dimension, which is often regarded as a separate academic study to that of string theory.

    But the fourth dimension (Which I shall hereby refer to as Spacetime) is independent of the fact that we can actually measure its existence as a constant, despite what Einsteins theory of special relativity may suggest regarding the relative motion of time regarding objects of sufficient mass and inertia. As we’re aware of, objects measured in two dimensional geometry posses both a length and height (X & Y respectively). When we study three dimensional geometry, high-dimensional spaces occur in mathematics and the sciences for many reasons, frequently as configuration spaces such as in Lagrangian or Hamiltonian mechanics. These are abstract spaces, independent of the actual space we live in. The state-space of quantum mechanics is an infinite-dimensional function space. So according to this principle we add the element of mass to the space, thus we respectively create a Z axis.

    But is the concept of spacetime (Known colloquially as the spacetime continuum) that combines space and time within a single coordinated system of spatial geometry. Typically this is known as the three spatial dimensions: length, width, height being included with the one often overlooked temporal dimension: time (Which shall be represented by W). Dimensions are components of a coordinate grid typically used to locate a point in a certain defined “space” as, for example, on the globe by latitude and longitude. In this instance correct dimensions are measured to ascertain a casual point within three dimensional space

    In spacetime, a coordinate grid that spans the four dimensions locates “events” (rather than just points in space alone), so time is added as another dimension to the grid. This way, you have where and when something is. Unlike in normal spatial coordinates, there are restrictions for how measurements can be made spatially and temporally.

    So to measure time and space as a fourth dimension (Using the Hamiltonian principle of 3+1), you must first coordinate a three dimensional spatial geometry by ascertaining the value of X, Y and Z. Continually extrapolating this then to ascertain the thee dimensional spatial geometry of surrounding space.

    Example: A Rubik cube sat in the middle of the room.

    You then take this information and you apply the W axis, you can then determine the relative movement of time through a spatial dimension, regardless of mass and velocity.

  76. L-W February 8, 2009 at 12:18 am -      #276

    Although, if you are referring to a Tesseract cube and not multiple spatial dimensions, then you have to specify so. There are so many principles of Euclidean space that it becomes nigh impossible to discern what others imply with their summations.

    Which is why I often stick by my main man, Einstein and his theory of relativity.

  77. KiraMasteroftheNote February 8, 2009 at 2:13 am -      #277

    Matapiojo. No. Link will win. There has to be some far off and outlandish way for him to win. Every opponent can defeat their enemy some way some how. Currently Kharn’s done that against Link. But someone will eventually think of something so utterly ridiculous but completely plausible for Link to do to defeat Kharn. Its inevitable. Along with the imminent of the future of both contestants and what that will bring to the table.

    Unfortunately along this line of thinking I upset the complete basis for Fact pile itself.

  78. Cpt Olimar February 8, 2009 at 4:12 am -      #278

    Thanks for the info L-W. Time is indeed a fourth dimension and is as important as any other. I heard once that you know something is a dimension when you can take the derivative of it… or something like that. Meh, I didn’t even like AP Physics that much.

  79. =[BF]=JimmieRox February 8, 2009 at 11:30 pm -      #279

    11 dimensions, fits best with the vibrations.

  80. Matapiojo February 9, 2009 at 7:03 am -      #280

    “There has to be some far off and outlandish way for him to win.”

    I feel like the human race just degenerated a little.

    True story.

  81. KiraMasteroftheNote February 9, 2009 at 3:53 pm -      #281

    Oh Matapiojo. The human race has been on a slow decline for a long time now.

  82. swifterdeath February 9, 2009 at 7:47 pm -      #282

    “Oh Matapiojo. The human race has been on a slow decline for a long time now.”

    yeah so do us a favor and leave so it can move back up.

    on a side note Yes there is a few outlandish ways for link to win. but with every on link can win Kharn has several thousand ways to win. and mind you those are only the unorthadox ways for him to win. as in none kharn like ways to win, kharn ways to win htere are MANY MANY more ways to win.

  83. L-W February 9, 2009 at 8:00 pm -      #283

    The Human race has been doing quite the opposite actually, advancing from one higher tier to tier in social and technological evolution.

    Please don’t tell me you’re one of these damned reactionaries who has to proclaim the end of the Human race for every negative thing you see happen. It’s that short-sighted black and white philosophy that tries to convince us that ALL war is bad and that “You cannot hug your Children with Nuclear Arms”.

  84. Cpt Olimar February 9, 2009 at 9:43 pm -      #284

    Human progression is a good thing. But its equally important to preserve values from the past and learn from our mistakes, with the goal of progressing of course :)
    There’s nothing wrong with being a little conservative though :(

  85. KiraMasteroftheNote February 9, 2009 at 11:24 pm -      #285

    im not that stupid L-W. Im not some tree hugging hippy faggot. im more of a humans are getting stupider and relying more on technology everyday, the world is far over populated, and everyone is pissed at each other kinda guy. And I disagree with that statement. You can hug your children with nuclear arms. You can hug them all the way to oblivion.

  86. L-W February 10, 2009 at 1:16 am -      #286

    1) The average Human intellect has not increased or decreased as a result of technology, instead environmental differences that matter are large-scale and societal and are having a more profound way in which we think and interact. I Also argue that the societal differences compound, so even though small changes are scattered throughout our schooling, entertainment, child-rearing practices, employment expectations, and hobbies (Due to technological innovations), Our ancestors dealt with the world much more concretely, and modern child rearing, education and entertainment all exercise our growing competence at abstraction.

    An agrarian society that doesn’t expect its children to grow up and leave the farm raises them to focus on the here and now. Expectations change when horizons open up, and we should expect every society to undergo this effect as people expect the next generation to live in cities, work in information-intensive jobs, and socialize with people who aren’t all doing the same work their ancestors have done since time immemorial. Thereby opening the range of possible experience and education.

    Essentially, despite proving to be a buffer, technology has exponentially increased the demand of the average human intellect, by providing a veritable range of tasks to stimulate cognitive functions WHILST also opening a person to new methods of information retrieval and storage. The age old question answered by scientists and experts conclude that the brain today is highly adaptive and is measurably able to do higher level cognitive processes than those just a generation ago. Just look at the internet as an example.

    A lot of people accuse Television for the ‘dumbing down’ of America. I disagree, Television has only killed the cultural inheritance of America, but considering that the United States of America doesn’t have a cultural history then I’d say this is not a problem.

    2) As an addendum to the previous post, the Human population has grown significantly, therefore with a larger base population you begin to notice certain characteristics arise frequently (Appearing to be more common in larger groups).

    Remember how 16th-18th Century depictions of Townships and Villages would have the “Village Idiot” or “The Village Drunk”? There would always be just one person possessing the moniker, giving it a certain charm (If it were not so insulting). Well the populations of those areas were a less dense in numbers than modern equivalents, thus such characteristics were a lot rarer.

    It’s simple mathematics that when you exponentially increase the population, although the odds of discovering such characteristics remain the same if you were to select them from the total population, the variation of these attributes would be a lot higher.

    Essentially the Village Idiot is still around, but in no way is he claiming a greater percentage than the rest of the population.

    3) The Human population is growing exponentially in developing Countries, and this Planet would no doubt suffer if were to leave its growth unchecked and uncured. But that’s why we have war, slavery, mass sterilization, trade embargoes, genocide and the almighty hand of the Human Fuel Reclamation plants.

    We could colonise other regions of Space, but to create successful autonomous and wholly self-sufficient Colonies would require decades upon decades of hard labour. Either that or we place a total deficit on Human reproduction for the next fifty years, and watch as the widening gap between birth rates grinds industry to a halt, stymies the economy, causes a global depression, brings and end to most standing military forces throughout the globe and bring the human population closer to a cataclysmic extinction event.

    It’s a difficult issue to overcome, and no doubt the solution itself would be a grim one. But is it causing a decline? Certainly not, far from it.

    – – –

    My only fear for Human civilization is the widespread acceptance and integration of religious or theistic practices and laws into Government. But as we can currently witness, most of the first world populations are rapidly moving away from such policies and are affirming themselves as non-theological states. With Countries such as Britain, Australia, France, Japan declaring themselves to be composed of a mostly atheist demographic.

    The rest of the first world is just waiting for the USA to catch up with this trend.

  87. Thepocalypse February 10, 2009 at 6:24 am -      #287

    Sorry to be a n00b, but Warhammer 40000 is a tabletop, yes? I really don’t have time to play them, so is it possible to read all of it in Novels?

  88. Jwlynas February 10, 2009 at 9:45 am -      #288

    “You can hug your children with nuclear arms. You can hug them all the way to oblivion.”

    Is it wrong that I love that couple of sentences so much?
    Humans are getting smarter, the birth rate is going down to the point that more people are dying than being born.

    Technology makes life liavble. Or should we all go to a time before penicillin?

    As for the “everyones pissed at everyone”… I’m not. I’m quite a jovial type actually.

  89. KiraMasteroftheNote February 10, 2009 at 5:08 pm -      #289

    L-W. Its funny because we seem to be on opposite sides of the same side of an argument. Basically everything you said agrees with what I think.

    The only problem with many of the the things that are killing people is that many of them are not occurring fast enough or efficient enough. The Militarys are mechanizing instead of going out to kill each other on a field. Missiles are being used instead of men and guns. Also a main problem with the population growing at such an alarming rate is that they all want to live in the same place. Colonizing a far off planet will indeed take a long time. Time we dont have unfortunately. In the mean time centers of wealth are filling and forests are being cut down and refilled with houses.

    The human race is, I admit, getting smarter. But its not the smarter we need. People are, as you said, getting office jobs, working in cities, doing jobs not everyone can do. This is not what we need though. We need people to do jobs everyone can do but nobody wants to do. And we need more jobs of that type. Who is going to grow food when everyone is working in a cubical? Who’s going to raising animals for food when everyone is at a board meetings? The technological advances that people are making need to slow down from the frantic pace its going at before it gets to fast to stop and then runs into something.

    What I ment by everyone hates everyone is that enough people in every part of everywhere hate everyone everywhere else so that the general opinion can be considered to be that way.

    “Is it wrong that I love that couple of sentences so much?”

  90. L-W February 10, 2009 at 9:33 pm -      #290

    I disagree with your initial statement since I’d rather not associate or pander to the fears of a reactionary.

    1) Modern first world Armies are currently moving towards total mechanization (Relying solely upon the technological singularity rather than manpower), but there are still plenty of places throughout the world where daily lynchings, genocides and political incursions are still carried with Ak’s, Sarine gas and a few hundred men armed with Machetes. For as long as there is political dissent in developing Countries (Where the issue of overpopulation is most relevant) then there will always be war.

    As for future conflicts between the three major powers, we should not discount them yet.

    2) We have plenty of people to cater to the various workforces and demographics in the myriad of industries that make up our economy. There is no skill or trade deficit, just a noticeable trend of ignorance amongst people who refuse to see that a Mexican plumber can do his job just as well as a Caucasian, or that Puerto Rican carpenter is still producing quality work at the end of the day.

    3) “Who is going to grow food when everyone is working in a cubical?”

    You mean a cubicle? Well farmers and agricultural specialists are usually the best place to start. This is not 200 B.C. anymore, you no longer require armies of captured slaves to maintain crops or successful harvests. Thus you have the prorogation of agricultural science which has adorned modern farming with irrigation, synthesized ammonium nitrate production, specialized breeding programs, pesticides and mechanization that increase crop yields and efficiency and decrease the need for excess manpower.

    The USA alone, which has a total population of farmers that totals in at just under 1%, provides a 1/5th of the worlds food stores. Australia, with only a thousand farmers at most, produces 95% of the agricultural output of Oceania. China, with an agrarian population of 2%, provides around 30% of the total planetary agricultural output. Making agriculture the worlds largest industry, next to tourism (Which earns several trillion per year alone).

    So no, we don’t need people fleeing their cubicles just to work on farms. Obviously this is subject to environmental changes and conditions, but as the great dust bowl showed us, throwing skilled laborers at the problem won’t solve it, just intensify the issue.

    “Who’s going to raising animals for food when everyone is at a board meetings?”

    We have entire industries (The fifth largest in the world in fact) across the planet devoted to animal husbandry alone. Growth, transport, stockpiling, preservation, irrigation, breeding. We have instigated laws so rigid that they are a worldwide agricultural practice, millions of livestock watchdog, corporations and philanthropies receive billions each year to preserve the welfare of cattle alone; and so much is dedicated to agricultural science through funding into husbandry, that of all the current proponents of research, livestock takes up one the largest margins alone.

    “The technological advances that people are making need to slow down from the frantic pace its going at before it gets to fast to stop and then runs into something.”

    Vague generalizations are still Vague generalizations. Technology booms with recurrence and minor declines with each passing generation, but since early industrialization, there has never once been a technological singularity that has deftly threatened civilization so suddenly as you described. In fact, if anything, the technological singularity principle has always remained stable in its incline, building as a series of plateaus rather than a sudden peak.

    – – –

    If you looked at the World rationally, you would see that it is several billion people working under skills based sub-sets of production and employment, with these individuals falling under a single larger entity that delivers a product…

    (E.g. A film crew is a collaboration composed of artists, writers, technicians, management, security, tradesmen etc. But the ultimate product is funneled through a single company. Likewise for me, my designs and papers have to go through five separate departments far more skilled in specific arenas aeronautic engineering before a proposal can be made. This is long before anything even gets tested in a lab or programmed or simulated in a computer: Do you propose that I try to build a $1 billion Jet by myself?)

    …To other entities that thrive on these products to do the same themselves. The economy functions like a balanced ecosystem of various services and service providers, not thousands upon thousands of rows of cubicles. If you want to even pretend to even have a career within the video game industry, these Office denizens are going to be ones whose ass you kiss everyday of your working life. They are not only your main source of funding, employment and licensing, but they are also going to be a vital source of revenue.

    The sooner you drop this simplified and childish outlook of the economy, the easier it will be for you in future to succeed at what you want to do.

  91. KiraMasteroftheNote February 10, 2009 at 11:18 pm -      #291

    Hmmm… Although I’m still in high school. I still get what your trying to say. Maybe I did over state my opinion a bit. But I think that my arguement cant be thrown out quite as fast as you’d think. Because as it is right now. The planet still has far far to many people and although the world is “cleaning up its act” I dont think its happening as fast as we need it to. By the time we reverse the effects of global warming it would be to late. We would be looking at a flooded world like is portrayed in “Waterworld” or eventually one of the 3 powers will get finally sick of one of the other (most likely the other two at America) and a large nuclear fallout will occur killing most of the creatures on the planet. Then when the world is a large pile of dirt and water the planet will either crumble in on itself from the force, begin a cycle of evolution, or remain a large pile of nothing until another life form settles on it or the sun explodes in a few hundred million years and destroys this planet.

    Maybe my opinions are a bit to far fetched but hey. It could happen. And. Atleast im not a hippy.

  92. Cpt Olimar February 10, 2009 at 11:22 pm -      #292

    As a strong believer this actually is my greatest fear
    ” With Countries such as Britain, Australia, France, Japan declaring themselves to be composed of a mostly atheist demographic.

    The rest of the first world is just waiting for the USA to catch up with this trend.”

    It’s not that I want religion and politics itself to be directly related, but its that I fear of the loss of religion as we progress in the future. This was partly what I meant by preserving values :( Just because science CAN do things doesn’t mean it should.

    I’m not about to get into a religious argument… so I guess I shouldn’t have even posted this… but you made the statement first. I can respect the opinion, but I merely disagree.

  93. L-W February 11, 2009 at 12:14 am -      #293

    Make no mistake, rising sea levels due to climate change are very likely to cause major problems in the the next century, but a near-total covering of the world in water is not possible. While the melting polar ice caps are destroying the habitat of the polar bear, it’s important to remember that most of the Northern ice cap is already floating in the ocean, so its contribution to sea level rise will not be as severe as Greenland or Antarctica. And even if all the ice melted off of those two land masses, the collective sea level rise would be about 67 meters, or 220 feet. That’s very bad news if you live in Amsterdam or New Orleans, but it’s certainly not enough to cover all but the highest mountains, as in the film Waterworld. We also shouldn’t expect those chucks of ice to melt too fast. It will likely take a thousand years or more for them to be gone completely, so we’ll have plenty of time to hoard paper and build cool boats, or just move to Denver.

    If anything, the ice caps melting would most likely cause a resurgence in the ice age effect, possibly exposing the continental US or Europe to freeze over and rapidly cool the planet thanks to shift in the air and sea heat currents.

    But the world or even humanity won’t simply die out. Desalinization would become far more common, as well as alternate energy solutions and transit. Heck, we could even start building a micro-Dyson concave solar panel to orbit the Earth and reduce heat absorption whilst storing solar energy. Couple this with a space elevator and you can start to see the foundation of a second Renaissance occurring.

    Just remember this. Humanity has fought its share of battles, from World Wars, potential nuclear holocausts, mass starvation, pandemics, ice ages, great sweeping fires that have lasted for years, titanic volcanic eruptions, meteor impacts etc. etc. We may have our problems, but we cannot slam the breaks every time we see something threatening on the horizon.

    – – –

    @ Cpt Olimar:

    Although I don’t necessarily believe in the total abolition of religious practices, I do believe rigidly in three exacting rules that should be followed:

    1) Church and State should be kept separate at all times. Regardless of whether a particular leader is personally religious does not bother me in the least, you can keep “In God we trust” on the emblem for as long as you wish; but the decisions and actions of a state should not be influenced, determined or justified on the basis of religious beliefs or practices.

    I honestly doubt that George W. Bush wandered the White House lawns and was told by God that he should invade Iraq. But worse still, no modern war should be campaigned, no major political movement should be sanctioned on the basis of “God told me to do it”.

    2) Similar to the above, no one person in any part of the world should be ridiculed, lambasted or held in any position of discontent or social stigma based on their beliefs or lack thereof. A candidate for the American Presidency SHOULD NOT have to declare himself as a devout Christian to appease the public and sway their votes.

    Whether you apply for the Presidency or for a teaching position, your success in the application should be based on individual job performance, qualifications and the likelihood of success, not on how ‘in touch’ that person is with God.

    3) Scientific and religious practices should be kept separate at all times, neither of them are compatible, neither one of them functions when combined.

  94. KiraMasteroftheNote February 11, 2009 at 3:48 pm -      #294

    Although the planet wont be covered like in waterworld. The available amount of land will diminish greatly. Thousands of people will die. Yes. Maybe a new ice age could be good for mankind. Maybe all of the things you say will happen but I see it as that the cons far out strip the pros in this situation.

    On the religious note. Absolutely agreed. Your ability to get a position in government or a teaching position should not depend on your religious beliefs. I personally am an atheist and Im tired of constantly being harassed by self righteous super Christians. Im okay with people who believe in god. My father does. But dont expect me to conform to every little thing you expect me to. My teachers get pissed when I dont stand during the pledge. I dont not stand because it has god in it. I dont stand because I refuse to pledge my allegiance to a nation I dont think is doing its job right. I dont intend to ever pledge myself to any government. I intend to let government work how it wants until it does something I dont like then Im going to fix it.

  95. Cpt Olimar February 11, 2009 at 4:35 pm -      #295

    L-w i completely agree with your first 2 premises. I would like to add to your second that if you happen to be a person who used to be involved in an official regligious role, that you should not be penalized because of it.

    I am going to have to disagree somewhat with your third one just because I don’t personally believe that God usually works outside of the laws of science. It is my personal belief that God tends to work within the laws of physics that he created. Clearly this is not always the case (read any miracle in the bible) but I think that he usually behaves in this manner. By no means am i advocating that scientists be forced to work within religious contexts, but for me, I find that science and religion can have a happy medium and are not necessarily antagonists of each other.

    In fact, I cringe when my fellow christian says how crazy scientists are for suggesting that the earth is over 10,000 years old. I clearly believe what science has proven in terms of the age of the earth, however I also believe that the god is not restricted by time, “days” do not mean anything to him. In addition, the bible has been shown to be symbolic as well as literal.

    I hope you understand where I am coming from L-W, and its nice to have a civil discussion over such topics as it usually tends to degrade rapidly.

    Kira, I knew someone very well who didn’t stand up during the pledge. He was also an atheist but he ended up standing for the pledge, due to much parental persuasion, by standing up just for the men and women who have died to let you live in a free country. No country is perfect :( and it is never going to do exactly what you want it to. However, just for the people who have laid down their lives in past wars for the freedom you now possess is enough, in my opinion.

    (please don’t flame ^^)

  96. Thepocalypse February 11, 2009 at 6:05 pm -      #296

    Kharn: Hi there.
    Basically, Kharn pwns.

  97. Thepocalypse February 11, 2009 at 7:30 pm -      #297

    In my opinion, God is like the dungeon master of a game of D&D. He can create and invent, but he either has to or chooses to follow the rules – Physics, chaos, etc. As for miracles, I believe these are points where he decided to bend the rules. They are not truly broken as we can usually explain the miraculous event a year or two after the fact or dismiss it as a simple variable that hadn’t been accounted for.
    Getting back to the “dungeon-master” concept, he creates us and gives us consciousness, but does not deviate too far from the same basic structures.
    For example, while we sometimes get a born athlete, nobody is ever born that can lift a car with one hand. Also, while God creates the players, the players still make choices. Thus, heaven and hell (personally, I think God is very forgiving. I wouldn’t want to love (I don’t like the word “worship” as it implies tyranny) a deity that lords over us like some monstrous spectre, hanging the threat of damnation over our heads constantly.

  98. L-W February 11, 2009 at 9:26 pm -      #298

    As an Aeronautic Engineer and essentially a Scientist myself, religion and scientific principle and practice are NOT compatible.

    There is a profound difference between science and religion in its conception of truth. Science requires an open mind, free inquiry, critical thinking, the willingness to question assumptions, and peer review. The test of a theory or hypothesis is independent (or at least one would hope) of bias, prejudice, faith, or tradition; and it is justified by the evidence, logical consistency, and mathematical coherence. Science is universal.

    Transcending specific cultures and replicable in any and every laboratory in the world. Empirical evidence from two thousand years ago is still valid, as it is two million or even two billions years before, and for as long as the principles of science are practiced to the full extent then that truth goes unhindered.

    Science ultimately is based on universal knowledge, whilst God is not. Can you tell me that you would feel the same if you were born as a Muslim? Or a Hindu? How would your beliefs be shaped if you were in Ancient Greece or Mesopotamia? Would you have followed the will of Apollo and Zeus several hundred years before the conception of monotheistic Judaic practice? How about Thor? The Nordic pantheon of Gods? The Mayan Sun God? The Jaguar Priestess? The great Ju-ju beast in the sky?

    Your conception of a God is based upon a very specific set of coincidental circumstances that arose within. You happened to be brought up (I presume) within the Christian faith, you know what it’s like NOT to believe in the deities listed above because you’re neither of them, as there is no reason to primarily select the Judaic-Christian God, in which by the sheerest accident you happened to be brought up.

    – – –

    Not to make this personal, but you have to understand that like the words of Von Neumann or Die Grundlage, religion and science can be left to their own devices; but under no circumstances should religion interfere with scientific principle lest you defy the truth itself.

    – – –

    Here is just a little quote I dug from a former President.

    ‘.. I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God. ‘

    – George H.W. Bush, 1987

    If, as an American, I heard this direct quote. Well, I’d be on the first Plane back to some “Heathen” country without a moment of hesitation.

  99. KiraMasteroftheNote February 11, 2009 at 9:52 pm -      #299

    Ahh. The Bible. The Bible. That almost never ending story (not really but its really long) with a self contradiction at least once a chapter and who’s word has “saved” the lives of millions from “evil”. Lets start with Genesis. The Bible says that the Earth was created in 6 days. The human race started with 2 people. One created from the other. Correct? Well science has proven this false so many times, I’m surprised they haven’t yet removed it from the Bible from humiliation. It never seemed to both them with the other parts they found “unneeded” or “inappropriate”. Another thing is that although they have been proven wrong time and time again some Christians still refuse to accept any of this. Cpt. Olimar you aren’t one of these out dated people and therefore I hold far more respect for you.

    Another little fun fact I find is that although Christianity is called by most of its followers the “only true religion” it borrows most of its symbolism from other religions and that the people who most benefit from the fear it spreads about Hell is the government. Let me see. An example. Oh. I got one. The Cross. One of Christianity’s most highly important symbols. If I were to say how many religions used the Cross before Christianity I would max out this field. Also another one I was just talking to my friend on the phone about. In the Bible it states that “We are not to worship trees” What is Christmas? Another thing about Christmas. It was apparently Jesus’s birthday. Explain how that is even possible. The only reason Jesus was “born” on December 25 is because that was a Pagan holiday. Aren’t Christians supposed to hate Pagans? It funny how quite a few things in Christianity are taken from the Pagan religion yet Pagans are the “bad guys” and worship the “Devil”.

    L-W. Im going to let you take it from here for a while because I have to get off my computer. Also as per your request I did not flame you Cpt. Olimar.

  100. =[BF]=JimmieRox February 11, 2009 at 10:02 pm -      #300

    Aeronautics? I feel for you, hydrostatics is bad enough and I’m only in my second year! On another note I thought you said you studied physics?

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