Kharn the Betrayer Vs Link

Kharn the Betrayer Vs Link

On the surface, this might seem like a slam-dunk victory for Kharn. But part of what makes him vicious is also his weakness. With his chaotic attacks, I think in time Link would be able to hold off until an opportunity to strike Kharn would become apparent.

It would not be a quick fight, but in the end, the warrior from Hyrule would be the victor.

What say you?

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658 Comments on "Kharn the Betrayer Vs Link"

  1. x on December 22, 2008 at 12:14 am -      #101

    o and the falling off topic thats cuz of me =) I don’t know y but im good at making people fall of topics…

  2. Darman December 22, 2008 at 1:44 am -      #102

    One name…………….<__>………………….. MAGNUS THE RED!!!!!!!!

  3. Space marine December 22, 2008 at 10:56 am -      #103

    Tau…..hate them, but i like deep striking large amounts of flayed ones right next to them, works a charm.

  4. Matapiojo December 22, 2008 at 9:42 pm -      #104


    I HATE fighting Tau. As a World Eater/Death Guard commander, my units usually take an insane amount of damage before I reach their lines. Whenever I face the goody aliens I HAVE to use dual LoS-DPs and at the very least two squads of Khorne Raptors. Several squads of Havocs behind cover help them tons as well.

  5. AlphaCommando December 22, 2008 at 11:05 pm -      #105

    Everyone seems to hate Tau, like seriously (not just you guys)…..

    I just mix it up (most often) lots of battlesuits and Firewarriors, battlesuits to tie up the enemy, firewarriors to fire plasma till nothing is left. Tho if I’m up against armor I’ll just markerlight everyone and let the Skyrays and Hammerheads do the talking….

    On a note; I have never played against a smart Necron player (only like 2 for that matter); they just seem to throw Warriors at me until that Phase Out rule wins it for me….

    Since my Tau army has reached critical mass (so to speak) I have recently started a large Dark Angels army, I’m rather happy with how its coming along, tho I’m gonna have to control myself when it comes to Dreadnoughts….
    I’ve ordered all my infantry and Dreads (disposable income I thankith thee) focused on Termies and Tac squads (with a few Devastator squads in there but few Assault marines), have any suggestion for the vehicles? I’ve never had my own SM army and I’m looking for a flexible if heavy-handed army….

  6. x on December 23, 2008 at 12:06 am -      #106

    Razerbacks and Landraiders and also Drop Pods. Drop pods can get your troops closer faster. Landraiders = Big Tanks with big guns that carry troops hehehe i wanna get some for my chaos army.razerbacks just rhino with bigger guns less troop tansport.I think you will need more assault marines there always good.

  7. x on December 23, 2008 at 12:07 am -      #107

    well thats just my 2cents…

  8. AlphaCommando December 23, 2008 at 12:15 am -      #108

    Well I know the basics (I’m a seasoned veteran of the TT game and an avid reader of Black Library novels so I know what everything is, no need to explain), I was just wondering what any other veteran’s opinions where as to the the quantitative amounts of what I should buy vehicle-wise….

  9. x on December 23, 2008 at 2:19 am -      #109

    ok then that rules me out lol

  10. Space marine December 23, 2008 at 3:05 am -      #110

    This discussion has gone so far off course it should now be renamed Warhammer40000 forum…..

    Or maybe Some certain person That has a beetle icon and his name starts with Ad and ends with Min should make one. Admin….

  11. Matapiojo December 25, 2008 at 12:44 am -      #111


    Preds. I dont think you would need much more than Preds. If you go heavy on termies (Deathwing) then Land Raiders might benefit you greatly for its transport capacity.

  12. AlphaCommando December 25, 2008 at 2:58 am -      #112

    I was gonna go Deathwing; Land Raider Redeemers and Crusaders seem to fit the bill nicely for transports….

    Course the “Venerable Chaplain Dreadnought” will be in heavy use….as will every other dread I can get my hands on, the damn things are just so cool….

  13. Matapiojo December 26, 2008 at 9:03 pm -      #113

    “Course the “Venerable Chaplain Dreadnought” will be in heavy use….as will every other dread I can get my hands on, the damn things are just so cool….”

    I love dreads and the fact that they are now Elites in CSM. Venerables and other generic loyalist will still be superior, but I still love them. I love using a 2DCCW w/Heavy Flamer and Havoc Launcher, VERY anti-horde. Gaunts don’t like my “Berzerker Dread” at all.

    Just cause it MIGHT bring it back on topic, Kharn rips through dreads…

  14. swifterdeath December 30, 2008 at 1:08 am -      #114

    “Just cause it MIGHT bring it back on topic, Kharn rips through dreads…”

    i dont think ANYTHING can bring this back on topic…even another post from herooftime probably couldent…it would simply be beaten down and then everyone would move on talking about other stuff…

  15. Matapiojo December 30, 2008 at 2:32 pm -      #115

    “i dont think ANYTHING can bring this back on topic…even another post from herooftime probably couldent…it would simply be beaten down and then everyone would move on talking about other stuff…”

    Meh, was worth a shot.

    Here is another attempt…

    A Dreadnought will ROFLSTOMP Link.

  16. AlphaCommando December 30, 2008 at 4:54 pm -      #116

    What pattern of Dread and what armament? I rather like the Furioso-pattern but that is a Blood Angels thing so none for my DA army….. However I do like the Mortis-pattern (a DA exclusive), Twin multi-meltas is ass rape against armor….

    Then again, any Dread could beat Link to a bloody pulp in seconds….

  17. KiraMasteroftheNote December 31, 2008 at 12:09 am -      #117

    Hey guys. Ive seen how this movie ends. Its real simple. Link and Kharn do there stongest attack on the other at the exact same time and everything in the known and unknown and the alternate dimensions to all universes are destroyed. The End.

  18. The Hero Of Men December 31, 2008 at 1:32 am -      #118

    Well, lets look at the retrospective of Link and all of his collective weapons throughout every game he’s ever been featured in.
    Links Weaponry:
    Wooden Sword, White Sword, Magical Sword, Magical Shield, Ladder, Raft, Map/Compass, Blue/Red Rings, Power Bracelet, Magical Clock, Wooden/Magical Boomerang, Bomb, Bow with Wooden/Silver arrows, Blue/Red Candles, Whistle, Water of Life, Magic Wand/Book, Hammer, Handy Glove, Winged Boots, Cross, Fighters Sword, Master Sword, Tempered Sword, Golden Sword, Fighters Shield, Red Shield, Mirror Shield, Pegasus Shoes, Power Glove, Titans Mitt, Zora Flippers, Green/Red/Blue Medicine, Lantern, Bug Net, Book of Mudora, Bow/Arrow, Magical Mirror, Magic Hammer, Hook Shot, Shovel, Ice Rod, Fire Rod, Staff of Somaria, Staff of Byrna, Magic Cape, Bombos/Ether/Quake Medallion, Roc’s Feather, Magic Rod, Kokiri Sword, Biggorons Sword, Deku Shield, Hylian Shield, Iron Boots, Hover Boots, Gorons Bracelet, Silver Gauntlets, Golden Gauntlets, Bombchu, Boomerang, Deku Nut, Fairy Bow (Fire Arrow, Ice Arrow, Light Arrow), Lens of Truth, Megaton Hammer, Ocarina of Time, Dins Fire, Farores Wind, Nayrus Love, Razor Sword, Gilded Sword, Great Fairys Sword, Fierce Deity Blade, Heros Shield, Power Keg, Sword, Shield, Rod of Seasons, Seed Satchel (Ember, Mystery, Scent, Pegasus, Gale, Razor, Armor), Seed Slingshot, Magnetic Gloves, Flute(Ricky, Demetry, Moosh), Four Sword, Gnat Hat, Roc’s Cape, Fairy, Heros Sword, Restored Master Sword, Grappling Hook, Deku Leaf, Skull Hammer, Magic Armour, Red/Green/Blue Chu Jelly, Magic Hammer, Smiths Sword, White Sword (2/3 Elements), Four Sword, Remote Bombs, Cane of Pacci, Move Mitts, Grip Ring, Ordon Sword, Light Sword, Ordon Shield, Wooden Shield, Zora Armour, Magic Armour, Gale Boomerang, Hawkeye, Double Clawshot, Spinner, Ball and Chain, Dominion Rod, Water Bomb, Bomblings, Ooccoo and Jr, Fairy Tears, Triforce’s Power, Final Smash orb

    Now lets look at Kharn the Betrayer’s stock:
    A chainaxe

    Well, nevertheless, I think that in the end, Link would be able to pull something out of his ass. Not to mention. Good luck trying to break through Nayru’s Love. Oh and also, if we’re on the subject of a real trivial fight, Link would definitely have 4 jars each with a fairy. So good luck killing Link 5 times.

  19. AlphaCommando December 31, 2008 at 4:09 am -      #119

    Not any mere chainaxe but the daemon-possessed Gorechild the proverbial king of chainaxes, the thing easily weighs 20 times the weight of Link, is virtually indestructible and “armed” with rotating teeth that can cut through anything.

    Plus he does have a plasma pistol; as loathe as he is to use it….The man is so awesome that all he needs is his armor and axe to whoop ass.

    Also most of the stuff you mentioned is practically useless in a fight against this juggernaut.

  20. Space marine December 31, 2008 at 6:16 am -      #120

    Time for Metapojo to beat the new guys comment and eat it and then we can continue this.

  21. Space marine December 31, 2008 at 6:36 am -      #121

    or maybe i will…..
    Yes i will……
    Nayru’s love is hard to get past.
    But i’d like to see link try to set it up while he is cut in half by gorechild, and when those fairys try to get link back to his feet, kharn will either kill them or to increase his kill count,

    Let them revive link and let him scream in pain while he is cut in half and he will do that for 5 times…..yes……very painful.

  22. L-W December 31, 2008 at 12:18 pm -      #122

    Congratulations on copying and pasting from a wiki, must have taken some effort.

    Although that single legendary chain axe (Gorechild) is a literal gift from the universe itself, destined to not only split entire Space Marine Dreadnoughts from head to pintle, but cut split entire planets through to the core.

    In this case, being under equipped is more of a virtue and more than enough to win any battle (Despite the fact that the entirety of Kharns canonical arsenal vastly outweighs the entire Zelda chronology in both strength and numeracy) and split Link like a twig. Heck, his ability to turn the entire planet to Ash and expose Link to harsh environment of planet minus its atmosphere would be more than within his range of capabilities.

    “Oh and also, if we’re on the subject of a real trivial fight, Link would definitely have 4 jars each with a fairy. So good luck killing Link 5 times.”

    For as long as there sentient beings in the Galaxy, Khorne would only have to whisper his name and resurrect him each time, stronger with each drop of his own blood spilled. But when you consider that the closest Kharn has come to death was being severely eviscerated, bisected, impaled through his multiple hearts and missing half a head thank to the God Emperor of man, I have sincere doubts as to what anyone could do to kill him.

  23. Matapiojo December 31, 2008 at 1:13 pm -      #123

    “Time for Metapojo to beat the new guys comment and eat it and then we can continue this.”

    As glad as I am to see this actually come back on topic, I am way too lazy to repeat myself. Instead, I will refer this newcomer to the following posts that completely cancell most (if not all) of the individual items he mentioned in Link’s favor:

    And maybe even some of 95

    These are only my words, L-W, Alpha, Jwlynas, and others have provided equally significant arguments (if not more so) that negate everything The Hero Of Men “informed” regarding Link. His argument failed to take into acount the whole quantity vs quality philosophy of things.

    I urge you to make an actual argument for how things match up instead of listing a series of items that no being has EVER (no, not even Link) wielded at once. For all we know, all those magical artifacts could react in a very negative fashion once they came in contact to one another withing the Hyrulean’s backback.

    Just think about how much time Link would need to sort through his equipment to pull out even ONE of those still-innefective items against the Betrayer. We have stated many times over that all that Kharn would need is a fraction of a second to turn the elf into small portions of himself.

    Hell, I have lost many boss fights in LoZ switching between items by accident, and Kharn is several leagues above any boss the Hero has ever faced.

  24. Space marine January 1, 2009 at 12:56 am -      #124

    And whats with the freaking mirror shield…..
    It is only usefull for re-directing light.
    Since the shield is a mirror the best you could hope for it is that Kharn gets 7 years bad luck because of breaking his puny shield.

    The shields are not legendary in any way,
    First off the Hyalian shield is just an ordinary shield used by regular knights in hyrule.
    And it has about (i’ll be fair) 6 cm of steel/iron or god knows what.
    And Gorechild can rip through ceramite.

    And Ceramite even sounds tough!

    Also, agreeing with matapojo, It would be hard trying to find items in that already buldging bag of his.

    Also reading one of the comments from the hero of men, Link does not own in anyway a final smash orb……

    That came from the smash bros series. And the fierce diety is NOT link. This discussion is about Link not the diety. The biggoron sword would have no effect on Kharn because it is a non-magical crafted sword.

    A ladder is going to do what Hero of men?
    Let Link climb Kharn to get a better stabby point? I dont think so…..
    A wooden sword. WOW! OMFG Kharn is DOOOMED! :(

    And for the last time we are not talking in Gaming terms, I Mean, In a real fight Heart containers would have no effect whatsoever. What do expect link to do after falling from space and being shot at by anti-aircraft flak guns and hitting a mountain? Lose a heart container? I’m gonna say no to that.

    If link could even somehow survive entry of a planets atsmosphere I think link would be ripped apart by the flak, And if the flak didn’t get him the mountain would.

    So all in all Kharn Is the winner because of his extreme durability, strength, ect,
    Link has a TINY amount of durability because he can be killed by a small keese.
    So I Think this debate is now over…….I Hope.

  25. KiraMasteroftheNote January 1, 2009 at 4:34 am -      #125

    What is appears isnt obvious to some of the “smart” people here is is that Link would never carry all that shit in his bag. There are a select few weapons that he would use. Why would he want the wooden sword or the ladder. As for the Fierce Diety problem. Its not really the Fierce Diety. Its the POWER of the Fierce Diety WIELDED by Link. As for the Smash Orbs. Who is to say that Link doesnt have a Smash Orb in his bag? Have YOU people ever looked in there? And even if ALL of the shit is in his bag, that is the power of the bag. It allows you to pull what ever you wish out of it at any time. The Mirror shield IS a magical shield. It deflects ANYTHING thrown at it. Thats what makes it special. Get your shit straight. As for this “Oh links smaller and would automatically lose” bullshit. Have any of you ever played Shadow of Colossus? Yeah. Tiny little kid with a normal sword and bow vs. Gigantic Titan like Colossus. Who wins at the end? Oh thats right. THE KID WINS!!!!

  26. The Hero Of Men January 1, 2009 at 4:01 pm -      #126

    Wow, you think I wiki’d my information, just because you don’t know anything about Kharn and rely on wikipedia for information does not indeed mean that I do, how cute.
    Hm, well seeing as how that’s just a list of things AT his disposal, not everything he’d have on site, the general argument presented is Link has more at his disposal and this has turned into a “Well I like Kharn better and he’s big so he wins” argument. Nobody has seemed to list a valid point besides “HE’S BIG AND FAST, AND BIG, AND STRONG, AND BIG.” How about this, Link enters, Nayru’s love is already in effect, Kharn goes towards Link, Link uses kane of pacci smashes Kharn on his head, smash orb, Kharn dead, no contest.
    This is all based on a bias perception of who you like more they way I really see it after getting some info about Kharn instead of just bashing him since I don’t like him and am an avid Zelda fan, yeah I think he’d hold up but I really just don’t see link losing.
    Not to mention, lets put four sword and the picori blade into this.
    Now there are 16 Links fighting Kharn. 12 of which he can’t hit.

    And worse comes to worst. Link uses ocarina, goes back in time, Kharn is baby, Link slaughters Kharn as a newborn. Link wins.

  27. KiraMasteroftheNote January 1, 2009 at 7:01 pm -      #127

    This man makes a very good point.

  28. x on January 1, 2009 at 8:09 pm -      #128

    Hahahahahahhahahaha no no wait hahahahahahaha what did you guys read nothing L-W or Matapiojo wrote and LMAO! did you just say the most smart guy here is using wiki.

    Man i feel sorry for you guys… REALLY SORRY.

  29. L-W January 1, 2009 at 10:18 pm -      #129

    I don’t personally give a crap where you get your information from, It could from a beer mat for all I care, but the fact that you would list a wooden sword (What? Are you hoping Kharn will die from a splinter) screams copy and paste to me, to which you…

    “just because you don’t know anything about Kharn and rely on wikipedia for information does not indeed mean that I do, how cute.”

    …Try and reverse the insult upon myself. Excellent job, that puts you up there somewhere between a schoolyard argument and “My Dad is bigger than your Dad” is the Chomsky Richter scale of debating tactics. What’s next in your bag of gems? “I am rubber and you are glue. Anything you say bounces off me and sticks to you.”?

    As for my information, I think it’s PRETTY obvious at this point that I play enough Warhammer to surmise my information form canonical sources such as the Codex, game play manuals and the vast array of White Dwarf sponsored novels. You clearly have not payed attention to anything, have you?

    Anyway, let’s end the the diatribe and feast upon some meager morsels of repetitive acknolwedgment.

    – – –

    1) The full canonical arsenal of both his time spent in the Imperium Marine forces and Chaos alone outranks everything possibly available to Link at any point in his ‘career’ in both quality and quantity. In his latter years the Gorechild has sufficed, but if we are debating who can bring forth the greatest gear in any given situation, Kharn hands down.

    2) The only problem with that straw man attitude of your is that in the above posts we have proven how much stronger Kharn is, how much faster he is than Link, his intelligence, his durability and his experience. We provided observable proof, analytical evidence, a myriad of methodology, gathered information, formed a suitable hypothesis and objectively interpreted the data.

    Even when I did the work on behalf of other people too lazy/stupid to do it themselves, they simply refute it on a basis of conjecture. Unfortunately you’re also suiting up nicely to meet this archetype in the absence of Herooftime, which is unfortunate, because lest to say I put forth a very nice analysis which no one here has managed to even put forth a logical rebuttal to…Just this.


    Indeed, except where you have an automated puerile response syndrome functioning on autopilot, I provide the reason and logic. In which case Kharn is superior in all forms of physical aptitude (Both mental and physical), which gives him an undeniably strong advantage against any opponent in any contest.

    Otherwise, such ‘reasoning’ on your behalf would dictate that Muhammad Ali could have been defeated by a small child given a sufficient amount of optimism on her behalf.

    3) I think you mean the CANE of Pacci, the small fragile cane that can only be used to gently fire lightning at small enemies or lift medium sized vases and flip…Things.

    My God…Kharn is doomed. The logical part of my brain is telling me that his Power Armour can ground and protect him against even high density plasma storms projected by solar winds; and that he weighs two thousand times any object Link is capable of flipping…But I can tell right now that a two foot staff is really going to mess Kharn up.


    4) Semantic aside, the Smash Orb is a feature used in the non-canonical depiction of Link in “Smash Bros: Brawl” Nintendo video game series. Link owning a Smash Orb is as canonical as me gluing a Superman action figure to my Games Workshop tabletop Kharn model and claiming that it makes him invulnerable to everything but Kryptonite.

    I’ll probably have to play Metal Gear again, but I swear Snake mentioned nothing about having to fight an effeminate Elf at Delfino Plaza…(Looks again)…Nope, nothing.

    5) Kill Kharn as a baby? When he was a test tube embryo under the watchful guise of the Primarch before the Horus heresy? When the God Emperor himself directly protected unborn Space Marines throughout their extensive gene seeding therapy, even through their training until they left his sight unto the big bad cosmos? Are you telling me that Link can defeat the God Emperor now?

    Either way, The Ocarina of Time is canonically limited to only traveling at time expanses of seven years; and once again movement can only be accomplished in a strictly fourth dimension of travel between two separate points that contain the correct spiritual stones upon re-entry.

    So even if Link could somehow traverse ten thousand years of time (Which he cannot), he would most likely be dropped into the midst of a Vacuum considering that the Planetary orbit of Termina would have ceased exist in the same spot after ten thousand years. At this point he would have about twenty seconds before the blood in his veins boiled and his body freezes over from exposure.

    Even if he were to land upon solid Terra Firma, he would still lack the sufficient funds (Since Gold coins are not Imperium currency) to even take a shuttle 50,000 light years to Terra, especially when the planet receives several trillion pilgrims each year, many of whom are turned back before even reaching Sol. Meaning he would have to get a job to pay for the shuttle, but then he would have to at least rent some sort of dwelling whilst he works off the ridiculous cost of shuttle transport. Mhm.

    Then there’s Orks, Tyranids and Chaos forces that may attack his colony. Even then he still has to figure out a way past the God Emperor to reach Holy Terra.

    Huh, you really didn’t think this one through did you?

    6) “Have any of you ever played Shadow of Colossus? Yeah. Tiny little kid with a normal sword and bow vs. Gigantic Titan like Colossus.”

    Except those were primitive animals with incredibly large and highly sensitive weak spots, weaknesses that don’t apply to Kharn in any shape or form. In fact the game mechanics present don’t actually apply anywhere near this debate. Ever.

    And I’m just stymied as to why you would think it would. Are you going to quote the passage upon David and Goliath? Are there any other cliche archetypes you feel like throwing out there for the sake of proving nothing?

    7) Just so we can put this Fierce Deity issue to bed already, I’m going to utter several words that although seemingly scant upon first glance, surmises and concludes all possible conjecture on the subject.

    Angron, the Daemon Prince of Khorne.

    – – –

    Good night kiddies.

  30. Matapiojo January 2, 2009 at 9:21 am -      #130

    “And worse comes to worst. Link uses ocarina, goes back in time, Kharn is baby, Link slaughters Kharn as a newborn. Link wins.”

    Other than the righteous schooling you recieved at the hands of L-W, please refer to the number of posts I already pointed out for you to read before further commenting. I have already informed how time traveling would be innefective, and perhaps even dangerous to Link.

    I know there are a LOT of big words and lengthy arguments in Kharn’s favor for many posts above. I urge you not to feel discouraged by this and actually READ what was said already before posting any further nonsense.

  31. KiraMasteroftheNote January 2, 2009 at 3:48 pm -      #131

    Ok. Yes. Kharn has the Daemon god but Link has the power of a god plus several other forces that help him. And by saying that the Daemon god is stronger than any other god OUTSIDE of that particular universe is using your own “My Dad is bigger than your Dad” type argument. What say you now on this particular arguement?

  32. Matapiojo January 2, 2009 at 4:50 pm -      #132

    “What say you now on this particular arguement?”

    Again, read the previous posts.

    We said MUCH about this particular argument, most involving actual theological principles to logically analyze and determine a likely scenario. This was nowhere near a “My Dad is bigger than your Dad” instance. You are just hidding behind a “Im right, and you can’t prove otherwise” blanket, even though we did just that.

    Everything can as is scrutinized in these matches. The mere concept of being able to pit these two being against one another across two separate universes, but not other elements such as gods is pure hilarity. If it has to do with the character, its compared and discussed here. Simple as that.

  33. kharn is geh January 2, 2009 at 5:03 pm -      #133

    warhammer is gay thus Link wins

  34. AlphaCommando January 2, 2009 at 7:11 pm -      #134

    Obvious Troll is obvious….

    Memes aside; Matapojo has a point; we have discussed the theological principles of both fighter’s deities before and it is arguable that Khrone is stronger. However the every idea of bringing the gods into the fight and comparing them is somewhat ridiculous unless there is concrete proof of a “power level” or something of that sort.

  35. L-W January 2, 2009 at 8:16 pm -      #135

    “Ok. Yes. Kharn has the Daemon god but Link has the power of a god plus several other forces that help him.”

    Apparently you weren’t paying attention to what I said earlier.

    Kharn can willingly metamorphosize into Angron (Third person), Daemon Prince OF Khorne.

    Essentially when a Chaos Champion has sacrificed enough blood in his name, he essentially feeds the Eye of Terror itself, which imbues the host with enough chaos warp energy as to horribly mutate them into the form of a Daemon Prince; the physical incarnation of the Warp spirits.

    This transformation is proportional to the amount of blood shed on behalf of the Champion, so in the case of Sindri Myr, who sacrificed only a few pints in his name to become the Daemon Prince Sindri. Yet despite this limited offering, the Daemon incarnation was capable of rupturing the world, calling upon it a massive bombardment from orbit, his every footstep shook and crippled the Planet and required both a full on allied offensive of Tau and Marine forces (Including Land raiders, Whirlwind Artillery, Dreadnoughts and Predator Tanks) and the use of a specially constructed Hammer from eons before to even hurt the beast. Even after the Inquisitors assault, they still had to later abandon the planet due to the sheer corruption of its surface.

    In comparison, Kharn has shed such an exponential amount of blood in the name of the Eye of Terror, that the efforts of Sindri would appear as a drop in the Ocean. If he ever chose to transform into a Daemon Prince, his blood offering would be so epic that it would turn the Planet and any nearby star to dust and cinders. I have no idea as to what would kill Link first (I assume it would be the sudden lack of atmosphere), but take my word when I say that Angron would be his greatest nightmare. So much so that the Fierce Deity of the Majora Mask would take one look at it and say:

    “Well, it’s been nice knowing you Link, but I have an appointment elsewhere..Ciao!”

    This is not an issue of whose deity is the greatest, but as to who has the will to excommunicate with the warp itself (Which embodies every sentient being in existence) for their own efforts. Kharn becoming a Daemon Prince is no different that Link unleashing the Master Sword (Or any other magical item) from its prison, both require communication with an entity that is more so of a metaphysical presence in their respective universe.

    Except one is a Sword and the other can turn entire planetary systems to ash.

  36. Matapiojo January 2, 2009 at 8:31 pm -      #136

    “Obvious Troll is obvious….”

    No kidding.

  37. Space marine January 2, 2009 at 10:20 pm -      #137

    So, you like small 17 year old elf’s with somehow puffy pink cheeks?
    If you think warhammer 40000 is gay then just go away and die.

  38. Link is win January 3, 2009 at 6:33 pm -      #138

    @Space marine

    You like boys and warhammer.

    Link wins. He’d obviously bludgeon Kharn to death with the wooden sword

    Lrn2Zelda f#ggot

  39. Destroyer of Daemon January 3, 2009 at 6:35 pm -      #139

    This arguement is obviously been dragged out far too long so Im going to say this and only this.

    Link is impossible to defeat by ANYONE in any universe and even if all of those people banded together to create an ultimate force they would still be unable to defeat Link because Link IS the ultimate force of power that inspires fear into the hearts of good and evil alike. None can defeat him no matter how powerful they are. That is the end of this discussion, I dont think that the Kharn fans have a hero and should proceed to An Hero.

  40. Anon almighty. January 3, 2009 at 6:37 pm -      #140

    Toon Link could defeat Kharn with a deku nut and half a deku stick in under 3 seconds.

  41. KiraMasteroftheNote January 3, 2009 at 7:30 pm -      #141

    L-W. The Fierce Diety may be small but that is only due to the fact that he is using Links body. But that doesnt mean that thats how powerful he is. Also think about this. Link puts on the Fierce Diety mask. Then he puts on the Giants Mask. Now he multipies his Fierce Diety by about 50. He would be just as powerful as the fully transformed Kharn. Even if he was only 1/3 the size.

  42. Matapiojo January 3, 2009 at 10:02 pm -      #142

    “Link is impossible to defeat by ANYONE in any universe and even if all of those people banded together to create an ultimate force they would still be unable to defeat Link because Link IS the ultimate force of power that inspires fear into the hearts of good and evil alike.”

    And here I was under the impression that Link was the embodiment of courage…

    I guess Ganondorf has been left without a job.

    BTW. It really isn’t very hard to spot trolls that post multiple idiotic comments under different monikers. Grow some balls.

  43. Space marine January 3, 2009 at 11:38 pm -      #143

    Rofl, I like boys?

    Wow, Making a statement about someone’s Sexual Preferances is a Form of harrasment and if I knew you I would probably lay charges on you.

    And BTW Im happen, Just happen, to be a Hetrosexual.
    Or maybe I should just contact admin to Ban all of your further accounts?

    So go And play your little game, and stay in your closet.

  44. AlphaCommando January 4, 2009 at 1:18 am -      #144

    “Do not take insult to the ravings of madmen, they know not of which they speak.”

  45. L-W January 4, 2009 at 2:02 am -      #145

    If you plan on posting under multiple aliases, at least attempt to disguise your IP address so that the admin would not be able to ban your accounts.

    1) Link is defeated all the time within the Zelda universe, it happens between the moment your health drops to zero and you’re forced to continue from a save or checkpoint. Just because Link has not died within the canonical order of the series, does not mean that he is incapable of being defeated.

    Likewise, just because James Bond has never been canonically killed by a gunshot wound, does not make him invulnerable to bullets, it just meas he has YET to be killed. I can make this dissertation because I’m both rational and intelligent, unlike you, whose display of cognitive thought ranks less than even the most zealous of semi-sentient, primordial beings.

    2) Yet another failed statement on behalf of KiraMasteroftheNote. The power of individual masks cannot be combined, as the spirit of each individual masks are not only ideologically and violently opposed to one another, but are incapable of overlapping their individual powers upon single host forms.

    As for the Giant Mask, you mean the Giant Mask that can only ever be used in the Twinmold arena and loses its properties once taken outside? The one that doesn’t actually cause Link to grow, but instead unlocks the magic of the Stone Tower Temple and instead shrinks the arena, rather than enlarging Link? You mean THAT Mask. Okee-dokee.

    Nice try, but you lose.

    Even if Kharn somehow felt overwhelmed by the Fierce Deity (Which I have sincere doubts towards), a simple metamorphosis would transcend him far above the efforts of all the Masks combined (Which they cannot).

  46. KiraMasteroftheNote January 4, 2009 at 2:14 am -      #146

    Oh no. It appears they have seen through our ruse. Or maybe just maybe they just havent realized that more people like Link then Kharn and those people just happen to suffer from mild retardation or are just not good at forming opinions.

    What do you guys think?

  47. Anon almighty January 4, 2009 at 3:07 am -      #147

    I dont form opinions on things. Like whether I like something or not. Or how or why I like it. I find it insulting… I think… That you would not except me for who I am though. I mean. How did it make you feel Space Marine when you were called gay? Not to good I bet.

  48. KiraMasteroftheNote January 4, 2009 at 11:15 pm -      #148

    I utter one challenge to you L-W. Prove to me that the masks repel and that the game for play reasons doesnt allow you to put multiples on at one time. As well as why the battle wouldnt take place in the arena. It is a battle after all.

  49. L-W January 5, 2009 at 12:44 am -      #149


    The burden of proof doesn’t fall on me you fool, that is entirely up to you to figure out. Which you obviously cannot in the zeal of your issued ‘challenge’.

    As I explained before (Which somehow you missed entirely), the Magic of each Mask is an incarnation of a spirit Deity that was long ago worshiped at each point by an ancient civilization. These Deities are dogmatically opposed to one another, their powers overlapping or combining would be in the same sense the equivalent of me combining Jesus and Buddha to create the all powerful Juddha.

    To the same degree, the spirit of Majora is the most diametrically opposed ideologue in the game, there is no way that the incarnation of each Mask will willingly cooperate without some form of negative feedback on behalf of the combatants involved. The last thing Link needs is for his Masks to implode during the midst of combat.

    Couple this with the fact that game mechanics have not stipulated that the Masks can combine, or ever will, just shows how far you’ve delved into the use of supposition to attempt at proving a point. Because it cannot be done, has never witnessed to have been done or shown at some point occurring in any point in the Zelda verse canonically dictates that it will ever occur in this instance.

    The absence of proof is not the presence of undisputed fact.

    As for the Twinmold Arena, being specifically designated within an arena does not automatically dictate the the physical location of the duel. For all we know it could be staged on the Warp, in the bowels of the Renasence fleet, on a planet or in a blank cube room. It could be staged anywhere, from a destruction Derby Arena to a Roman Colosseum.

    The difference is, my argument is of worth and merit and therefore does not hinge upon the physical location of the fight. Yours lacking substance DOES.

  50. KiraMasteroftheNote January 5, 2009 at 10:49 pm -      #150

    I dont wish to state what has already been stated. But im also unable to prove the obvious win that has already occured on Links behalf. This has come down to a matter of opinion because although both sides have made winning arguements both refuse to see the others point of view so I am dropping from this discussion until such a time that a new element can be thrown in for which I have additional input. Calling me a coward or saying that I have lost is childish and does not effect me so proceed if you wish. Good day to you.


  51. L-W January 6, 2009 at 4:29 am -      #151

    Boy, do they raise Kids with thin skins these days.

    Note to self, if you attempt to satisfy a poor attempt at deceitful rhetoric by providing a logical argument to which they cannot oppose, whilst disproving every other one of their arguments in a single sweeping decapitation; they will most likely leave the debate rather than respond with a coherent statement.

    Now I’m just deciphering the semantics of the following thread to pinpoint where exactly the previous poster could be so insulted as to lose all logical recourse, or is simply cursed by a rampant streak of paranoia.

  52. Matapiojo January 6, 2009 at 7:53 am -      #152

    “the obvious win that has already occured on Links behalf.”

    Really? Cause I missed it. I count more votes towards the chaos behemoth.

  53. KiraMasteroftheNote January 6, 2009 at 1:32 pm -      #153

    I must, sadly repost the the two posts that followed mine. First im not paranoid nor insulted but i cant add anything to this and dont want to restate as i said whats been stated.

    Matapoijo. Votes dont count for anything in this. Logic does.

  54. x on January 6, 2009 at 2:26 pm -      #154

    And your logic is off way off so stop trying…

  55. Matapiojo January 6, 2009 at 3:13 pm -      #155

    “Matapoijo. Votes dont count for anything in this. Logic does.”

    Clearly logic escaped you. Had you bothered to read the above posts you would have noticed that not a single vote for Kharn in this match was illogical, .

    As opposed to posts in Link’s favor that are sumarized by – “Toon Link could defeat Kharn with a deku nut and half a deku stick in under 3 seconds.”


    “You like boys and warhammer.

    Link wins. He’d obviously bludgeon Kharn to death with the wooden sword

    Lrn2Zelda f#ggot”

    Not only has Link NOT been victorious here, but most of his support is simply ludicrous.

  56. L-W January 6, 2009 at 6:30 pm -      #156

    Exactly Mata, considering the nature of debate from both camps and the number of logically inclined posters from each, I would say that Kharn has both faculties (Popular support and sound arguments) lying in his favour.

    Alpha, Mata, Jwlynas, myself and several other posters in support of our views. I guess I missed the meeting where it was declared Link was the logical victor (Denoted by a BankGambling plaque), despite the serious lull in discussion from his supporters.

  57. KiraMasteroftheNote January 6, 2009 at 6:51 pm -      #157

    I have read the above posts and am ashamed at the stupidity that Link has obtained for support. But I also read the intelligent posts that have been made and found the victory in them. It would be an almost eternal battle but Link would prove victorious. Every hero has his weakness and Link is a master of exploiting that. Also, although I personally dont play warhammer 40k nor am I a fan, I have a very close friend plays and has told me that he defeated a whole army of Space Marines which included Kharn with an army of Tyranids.

  58. x on January 6, 2009 at 8:15 pm -      #158

    Ya but that is tabletop kharn not the real one.The real one can kill off the a hole army of nids as if they where nothing.

  59. L-W January 6, 2009 at 8:44 pm -      #159

    I’ll refer to a quote of mine from another discussion:

    “Apparently you’ve been under a rock for you’re entire life, because oddly enough that is how every protagonist in every game, movie, story, play and piece of literature in this history of mankind has defeated an opponent or antagonist.

    Spiderman discovered Venoms weakness to overcome him, Superman uncovered General Zods weakness to defeat him, Master Chief pulverized a Prophet, Hercules defeated a Hydra, Zeus imprisoned the Titans, Odysseus overpowered the Cyclops, David Linen uncovered the secret of defeating the Crab People, Barry Nirven learned how to defeat the Ringworld overlords, Harry freaking Potter has done so frequently, David Bowman overcame the HAL 9000, Gandalf outsmarted Sauron, Holden Caulfield, Ishmael, Jack Reacher, Dante (Of Inferno fame, not the game series), Neo, Ellen Ripley, Van Helsing…

    This list will go on and an on until either one of us dies. Just read Checkhov’s famous thesis on story structure and you’ll see that in no way is Link special in this regard.

    How about Hal 9000? It determined a full and comprehensive list of how to destroy its masters before it was even activated, Skynet knew how to kill humanity before it became totally sentient, Odysseus knew how to slay the Sirens long before even encountering them. Heck, even the Monolith knew what to do with Humanity several billions years before life could evolve on Earth. Just face it, you’re now arguing an invalid point of no substance out of some inane stubbornness.

    This ‘trait’ is not unique to Link, it is in fact such a common principle in literature for writing protagonists and antagonists that is literally makes Link just another brick in the wall of a vast library of known fiction.”

    – – –

    To actually declare an outright victory you have to actually maintain your argument despite how persistent the opposition may be in their vindication (Just look at myself and Alpha in the Star Wars Vs. Halo debate). Truth is a property of dedication and perseverance, to which only seemingly fruitless labor can uncover.

    The fact that your arguments would crumble so easily after only a few concise rebuttals really does not display the tenacity or merit of your points, despite your efforts people have proven you wrong, thus invalidating everything you have said.

    When I look at your posts I’m reminded of Macbeth, who after being told that the Army of Northumberland approaches stood by the prophecy that he was never to be killed. Who after the desertion of his men, yet stood by the prophecy of the witches and up until his beheading by Macduff, still believed all common sense and reason. The irony of which and the failure in yourself to rebutt our own points (Which we have been kind enough to do unto you, repeatedly) is the material that Shakespearean tragedies are founded upon.

    – – –

    I’ll also finish off the last point with this second quote from myself.

    “The only problem with tabletop rules is that every unit has to balanced precisely so that Ork, Eldar and Tyranid players don’t have to spend ridiculous amounts of money to maximize the potential of their armies when fighting relatively small squads of Space Marines. Balance and efficiency are the pre-requisites to any collector based game that requires the player to continually economize their gaming property with each passing generation.

    Otherwise who would ever choose to play as Tyranids when a single $5 Marine (Historically) is capable of destroying up to $300-400 worth of Tyranid units? Or when a $100 Tau army can be decimated with a few cheap Venom cannons?

    And that’s why when I make these comparisons, I go by the Novels and Codex, just so I can actually ascertain accurate canonical data without the incessant rules and balance issues associated with the game.”

    I once thought it was a syndrome of laziness, quoting myself to disprove others, but I’ve come to understand that it is more so of a testament of the validity of my points, that they could remain so universal in disparaging and rebutting so many other arguments.

  60. AlphaCommando January 6, 2009 at 9:19 pm -      #160

    Even so, Nids are an unspeakable plague on the galaxy, even the basic Genestealer has the proper “equipment” to pry open a Terminator like a tin can in the right situation. Saying you loose to the nids is of no shame at all….well, because if you do loose; YOU’RE DEAD!

    Either way, the TT and the “real” armies are very, very different from each other. We use the “book armies” because it is the most real, so to speak.

  61. KiraMasteroftheNote January 7, 2009 at 12:05 am -      #161

    There is a slight difference in Link that sets him apart from other heros and their ability to find enemy weaknesses. Link does it instanly and exploits it more than a pimp does to prostitutes. Instant (Navi (the only bad part of LoZ series)) location and exploitation is key to victory in some cases. No matter what the weakness Link will milk it for all its worth and eventually destroy his enemy.

  62. L-W January 7, 2009 at 2:59 am -      #162

    “There is a slight difference in Link that sets him apart from other heros and their ability to find enemy weaknesses.”

    Not really, Links abilities as a protagonist don’t really stand too far out from other literature protagonists/antagonists archetypal abilities to uncover a weakness. When you search through the literal trillions upon trillions of literature sources (Which I dare you to do by the way) that have spanned the vast compendium of Human storytelling, the same traits begin to arise over and over again, sometimes to varying degrees of intricacy…

    (It took Odysseus days to discover the weakness of the Cyclops, Dante Alighieri on the other hand was born with the knowledge of how to overcome the perils of his journey)

    …In comparison, Link is just an archetypical grain of sand on the beach.

  63. Matapiojo January 7, 2009 at 8:18 am -      #163

    “Also, although I personally dont play warhammer 40k nor am I a fan, I have a very close friend plays and has told me that he defeated a whole army of Space Marines which included Kharn with an army of Tyranids.”

    Yet another proof that you have not read the posts above.

    I have explained several times how the tabletop rules and examples help in putting certain things in context, but is much too diferent from 40k canon. The creators and subsequent developers must keep in mind that they are dealing with a game. That means that everything that is to be used on the table must be toned down (in the case of Space Marines considerably) to suit the needs of gameplay balance, and most importantly for them, sales.

    40k canon states that a single Space Marine can hold off an entire Tyranid horde. Canon also states that Kharn is FAR superior to a regular Space Marine. In fact, Kharn is capable of splitting a Space Marine (a literal walking fortress standing between 10-15 feet tall) right in half. From head, to crotch.

    Why does Games Workshop use Space Marines as armies if they are so powerful? Because they sell. Who DOESNT want to play these goliaths? Better still, who wouldnt want the glory of saying they defeat them? Clearly, your friend is just that example.

    Thats why they are balanced as such for the tabletop game.

    “There is a slight difference in Link that sets him apart from other heros and their ability to find enemy weaknesses. Link does it instanly and exploits it more than a pimp does to prostitutes. Instant (Navi (the only bad part of LoZ series)) location and exploitation is key to victory in some cases. No matter what the weakness Link will milk it for all its worth and eventually destroy his enemy.”

    Fair enough, but what would happen when Navi doesn’t target anything on a charging behemoth that has only murder for intent?

    Link will find absolutely no weakness in this man. Many outwordly beings have looked for it for ten millenia (beings far more powerful than Link), and have failed miserably.

    Just try to wrap your brain over that. Ten THOUSAND years of brutal warfare the likes of which Link has never even considered possible. Kharn has not taken a break in those many years. Even in his “downtime” he slaughters his comrades. He seeks out “stronger” opponents than him (slaughtering countless hordes in the meantime), and offers their detached skulls to his god.

    Do you honestly think that in ten thousand years, and litterally countless oponents of varying strengths and skills, a weakness would not have been found had there been one? There is none.

    After his rebirth, Kharn has never been close to death, and this case will be no diferent. End of story.

    You may be right in that he has a weakness of sorts. His only flaw is that he doesnt care who he kills, and often ends up killing most of his allies as well as his oponents. I dont see any allies here, so his flaw is a moot point.

  64. KiraMasteroftheNote January 7, 2009 at 11:59 pm -      #164

    Every creature. No matter how weak or strong has a weakness and Navi WILL find it. Its inevidable. Navi finds weakness and Link fights until its used and becomes victorious. Just because Kharns weakness isnt know (aside from the mercylessness) doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

    L-W The small difference between Links weakness location and others is that Navi gives direct and simple instructions. (that was for you L-W)

  65. AlphaCommando January 8, 2009 at 1:12 am -      #165

    But Navi is a plot device in said situations, always….she is just an excuse for pointing out the obvious and ridiculous silly “weaknesses” of things. In reality such a thing is never that black and white.

  66. L-W January 8, 2009 at 1:54 am -      #166

    Mata summed it up really nicely, I couldn’t have put it any better myself.

    The issue with finding Kharn’s weakness is that even if it did exist, it is incredibly difficult to uncover even for supernatural cognitive beings. The God Emperor himself could not uncover a means of killing his former prodigal son, so he ignited a Supernova scale attack in a vain attempt to ward off his warp powers, which merely drove kharn away.

    Abbadon, an ancient Alien/God being of Chaos with an infinite well of psychokinetic and pre-cognitive powers attempted to do just the same, which proved fruitless. Kharn has what I would call a magic/psychic jamming aura imbued to him by the sheer amount of warp energy he embodies.

    A simple diagram that suitably depicts the order of psychic and cognitive strength:

    God Emperor>Abbadon>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Navi

    Navi’s capabilities may be full-proof within the Zelda universe, but the likes of Termina or Hyrule have never experienced full blown Galaxy eating warp energies before. I would put my money on Navi turning to Link and saying:

    “Well, I tried. Nice knowing you Link”

  67. Matapiojo January 8, 2009 at 8:23 am -      #167

    “But Navi is a plot device in said situations, always….she is just an excuse for pointing out the obvious and ridiculous silly “weaknesses” of things. In reality such a thing is never that black and white.”


    There has been nothing stated anywhere indicating that these faeries as all-knowing. They are just a gimic devised by Nintendo to make what would have been a technically complex game considerably simpler both for them to finalize in programing development, and to appeal to younger audiences with their legendary simplistic dialogue/mechanics.

    Tell me, how many games (and game types at that) do these faeries make an appereance in?

    I hope you have enough understanding to figure that one out on your own.

  68. KiraMasteroftheNote\ January 8, 2009 at 4:30 pm -      #168

    “Tell me, how many games (and game types at that) do these faeries make an appereance in?”

    It only takes 1.

    As for Navis ability to see weaknesses of enemies. It has so far proven infallible and its limits are unknown. So rule of play would dictate that is would and should remain as such.

    I see your point in that the various beings of the 40K realm that have tried and failed at uncovering Kharns weakness and that they are far more powerful than Navi could ever be. But all Navi has is annoyingness and weakness spotting. Thats what shes for. She has nothing else and so she would be able to see Kharns weakspot and then hover over it, somehow unharmed for all the world to see, all the while shouting instructions to Link.

  69. x on January 8, 2009 at 8:05 pm -      #169

    Hey y is there fearies in this its link vs kharn not link and fearies vs kharn…

  70. AlphaCommando January 9, 2009 at 12:38 am -      #170

    That would depend on what you consider “equipment”….if you consider Navi equipment then she would be allowed, if you consider her another entity then no….

    For example; in my opinion Cortana is an entirely separate character from MC, thus she is not present in any of those MC vs. Battles.

  71. Matapiojo January 9, 2009 at 8:15 am -      #171

    Here, here.

    Navi is alright to be in the match. Like I said, she will find nothing. Not so much because she can’t find a weakness (although there is none), but because she will get blasted away by a point-blank Plasma Shot that happened within a space of two of her wing flaps.

    Really, she is of no concern. The only beings that have a hope against Kharn are beings that can BEST him in combat, not individuals that seek to exploit weaknesses. Like I said.




    His weakness is his bloodthirst which drives him to kill friend or foe alike. As there are none here other than Link and himself, that is a moot point. Fools that waste precious miliseconds looking for a chink in his armour or combat form get a face-full of Daemon Weapon.

  72. KiraMasteroftheNote January 9, 2009 at 5:22 pm -      #172

    Ok. Matapioji. We get it. Kharn has anger managment problems. Its not an actual weakness. Personally I would love to have uncontrollable rage. You dont seem to see the point Im making. Everything has a weakness. Even Kharn. Heroes and villains of legend and lore all have their own weakness. Most of them are never known. But they are still there. Its the factor of the unknown. If Link has to stalk Kharn night and day for ever. It doesnt matter. He will find a weakness.

    As for Navi being shot. I dont think that Kharn would really give a shit about a tiny blue ball of light that isnt actually doing anything. Would you?

  73. KiraMasteroftheNote January 9, 2009 at 5:26 pm -      #173

    Matapiojo. Slip of the finger. My bad

  74. sean January 9, 2009 at 8:35 pm -      #174

    WOW, Some incredibly huge Zelda fanboys in this thread.

    Link dies, live with it.

  75. AlphaCommando January 9, 2009 at 10:18 pm -      #175

    The problem is that you are thinking like a silly video game protagonist, nothing, NOTHING is a cut and dry like “hit here because of the glowing red spot.”

    I am a martial artist so I know more than enough about actual combat and exploitation of weakness, that is actually how I fight; I’m not a prime physical specimen; and while fit I am not a strong person, my entire style focuses on exploiting human anatomical weaknesses, and I know that despite the fact that everything has a weakness it doesn’t work in a blatant way and is extremely, extremely subtle. And from my knowledge of 40K; Kharn has no weaknesses that I can pull out of the air; he has no exploitable physical weakness due to both his armor and Space Marine body (well not exploitable by Link), he is shielded from magic and is a combat unlike any other, a master of his axe to the point that none can best him, he stands 12 feet tall and can lift tens of tons….he has no weakness. Unless Link is packing heavy Las-weaponry or owns a warship he would have a hard time scratching Kharn’s shins….

  76. KiraMasteroftheNote January 9, 2009 at 11:49 pm -      #176

    I hate to go back to this but. The master sword would be able to fire its beam at Kharn and damage his armor because its basically a flying master sword of energy. The Master sword would be able to cut through Kharns armor then through Kharn himself. After the armor is gone the Fierce Diety would immediatly kill Kharn before able to activate any form of transformation. Then when resurrected he would be killed again. And again. And again until the Daemon god finally says “screw it, im done” and gives up on resurrecting.

  77. AlphaCommando January 10, 2009 at 3:48 am -      #177

    And you have analytical proof (or atleast sense) that this “beam” would do any actual damage and not, just like so many lasbolts; bounce straight off the armor?

    Considering you called it a “flying master sword of energy” that makes it doubly useless, being both the master sword (clang, clang) and energy (SMs have takes barrages of anti-tank laser weaponry before). Plus I’m sure that if Khrone was actually worried about Kharn being killed (moot since Link would be dead fairly fast), he would just elevate him to a Deamon Prince; where he would become immortal and gain a level of power so great his footfalls would crack planets….

    Also; about him caring about killing Navi; I’m pretty sure he would want to kill it, as long as there is one living thing that is not him in the area he will want that thing dead, regardless of wither or not is looks harmless (I’m sure Kharn has killed plenty of children), also considering any likely magical residual aura would drive Kharn to be even angrier at said magical item (Navi); he would want Navi dead extra-fast because it is an insult to Khrone himself.

  78. Matapiojo January 10, 2009 at 1:18 pm -      #178

    “As for Navi being shot. I dont think that Kharn would really give a shit about a tiny blue ball of light that isnt actually doing anything. Would you?”

    Is she not a living being? If its alive, Kharn kills it. End of story.

    As to your other points (and to expand Alpha’s already accurate arguments)…

    The master sword is a powerful blade. I can agree with that much. I have actually agreed to consider this weapon to be comparable to a Power Weapon in 40k universe. A type of energy imbued weapon that can generally slice through some armours without difficulty.

    However, Kharn is a daemonically imbued Lord of Chaos. The warp energies within him are able to deflect/ignore/heal wounds created by these type of attacks. In addition, Khorne’s blessings have also granted him the ability to Feel No Pain. Even if his wounds would be lethal, the man will stand and fight as if it was a simple paper-cut. This is the same ability that allowed the Berzerker to continue fighting even after having half his face blown off (along with other equally mortal wounds) at the hands of the God Emperor of Mankind. Wounds that he simply healed after the exchange.

    Now, lets consider your comments about the energy bolts…….Nullified.

    There. Considered. I have stated MANY times already why. Go read.

    Even if Link dons the Fierce Deity Mask, his abilities are not sufficient to match Kharn’s. Lets give you another freebie and say that Kharn indeed gets concerned for his safety. The Betrayer has his own “chicken-mode” just like Link. He can invite into his body a being much more menacing than himself.

    Being a Lord of Chaos, Kharn is imbued by daemonic energies that allow him to be a Daemonvessel. What does this mean? It means that at will, Kharn can call forth a Greater Daemon from the warp and allow it to manifest in the material realm. Let me make that a little clearer.



    Beings that normally have the power to to enslave entire planets (and commonly do so) full of other powerful daemons.

    In addition, we cannot forget that being the love-child of the Blood God, Kharn does not call forth your run of the mill Greater Daemon. He calls forth Bloodthirsters. Again…



    Avatars to the Blood God. The absolute most terrible beings that embody all manner of slaughter and carnage from a universe full of nothing but warfare. Even the Fierce Deity will just perish when he meets the stare of this being.

    As if that was not enough. Kharn is able to call forth a being far worse than a Bloodthirster using the same method. The Betrayer can redeem his name withing the World Eater’s Legion by calling for his lord Angron, Primarch and Daemon Prince of Khorne.

    Angron’s power is like putting together the raw energies of a thousand Bloodthirsters. Needless to say, Link wants no part of this. Hope to all hell that Link doesn’t feel like resorting to his “chicken-mode”, lest Kharn feels like unleashing his own cosmic joke on the Hyrulean.

    Are we done here yet?

  79. KiraMasteroftheNote January 10, 2009 at 11:09 pm -      #179

    Not even close

    But I will sit in repose for a bit while I think of something. If you dont mind.

  80. L-W January 11, 2009 at 2:43 am -      #180

    Mata. Alpha.

    Excellent job in surmising and utterly crushing this debate beneath your mighty boot heels in so few entries. I worried that things would have piled up in my absence, but lest to say your accomplishments are royally impressive indeed.

    +1 Internet.

  81. Space marine January 11, 2009 at 7:37 am -      #181

    “But I will sit in repose for a bit while I think of something. If you dont mind.”
    No, Leave it……Link is done for.

  82. Matapiojo January 11, 2009 at 9:19 am -      #182


    Dont mind at all, mate. Its what we are here for after all.


    Thanks. We try, man. We try.

  83. The One Sin January 11, 2009 at 7:01 pm -      #183

    I guess herooftime hasn’t read any of the other kharn or wh40k threads. If you honestly think link can beat this guy you are wasting time, admin’s time for moderating your posts, alphaccommando’s time, L-W’s time, Metapiojo’s time, and now my time. I may be a hypocrite considering my inability to give up on mc vs snake, but I know a truly hopeless situation when I see it. Link may have weapons that can hurt kharn, but one problem, link could never keep up with kharn, ever. We are done here, you are done, you lost.

  84. Wise Keaton January 13, 2009 at 7:01 pm -      #184

    (Just a note: I just read the first post, and maybe one or two scattered posts throughout the debate. I dunno what’s been said already. I’m just scratching the surface here. Okay, now on to the message.)

    I see the fans have already set into a screaming match. I’ll try to leave my fangirl favoritism out of this battle. Now, admittedly, I don’t know much about Kharn, but I’ve been doing my reading. Here’s a blip from Wikipedia that caught my attention:

    “Khârn is killed by the Emperor’s Champion, Sigismund… the remaining World Eaters carried the body of Khârn with them back to their transport, where he was reincarnated. This unusual occurrence is seen as the will of the Blood God, Khorne, favoring a valued servant. In the rest of his blood filled history, Khârn is depicted as never coming close to death again.”

    Until today! >:D
    (Sorry, that’s the fangirl favoritism I was worried about. ^_^’ )

    The Post Heresy section in his article on Wikipedia makes me laugh. Here’s his fatal flaw. He’s WAAAAY to rash. I could just see him getting frustrated with Link’s lemur tactics (As Link is really great at dodging attacks and staying out of the way if you know the proper way to handle the controller.) And just starts swinging wildly in his rage, and which leave’s Link the perfect opportunity to peal him like a Darknut, exposing… whatever’s under his armour, leaving room for Link to use that lovely Master Sword of his the way he knows how. Although I admit, Kharn looks like a tough opponent. It’d be a close battle… but I think Link’s come up against worse.

    More wiki gold
    “easily enraged by weakness”

    (And now for a LITTLE bit of fangirl favoritism) What about the Fierce Deity mask? just throw that little gem on and we got ourselves a FIGHT on our hands! >:D FORGET the Master Sword, when we got the Helix sword! Turing an ancient war god (Odolwa) that takes 20+ hits with the kokiri sword to kill, into MUSH in 4 hits. (Yay! Fierce Deity! *screams from this side of the computer*)

    I’m coming into this debate half Ignorant, so I have a question about Kharn… how fast is he? I mean, if he’s like the flash, then poor Linkie don’t got a prayer. But if he’s as slow as he looks, then he’s just like a Darknut, peal ’em and keel ’em. xD

    (And we’re gonna bring fangirl favoritism into it just one more time.) The second Kharn kills Link, the goddesses would strike him dead. Do you have any idea how angry the goddesses would be if he killed their favorite little hero?

  85. Matapiojo January 13, 2009 at 10:26 pm -      #185

    @Wise Keaton

    First, thank you for joining our debate.

    However, I don’t think any of us here can truly retort or support your points simply because like you say yourself, you are not well informed.

    I know it looks daunting because we have dumped a massive amount of info in here, but you truly need to read well over 80% of the posts above. Absolutely everything you point out has been discussed (quite at length now).

    On a small side note, don’t ever rely on wiki 100% do base your opinions. Wiki is a great tool, but it is often misinformed or incomplete. In respects to the Betrayer, it is GROSSLY incomplete.

    Again welcome, but please have do a read.

  86. KiraMasteroftheNote January 13, 2009 at 11:29 pm -      #186

    Thank you Wise Keaton. You brought me back into this. If only as a guide that has read the posts.

    Its true that the godesses would strike Kharn down. But sadly the Kharn fans have us covered with their own Blood God. (Even though its impossible to tell which is stronger apperantly even in a 3 on 1 fight)

    As for Kharns speed. He is not the flash thank the godesses but hes also not slow from what Im told. (I tried this tactic already) The Kharn side says that Kharn due to his siding with their god and having an ass load Warp power (What ever the hell that is) makes him faster and stronger than normal space marines. (dont ask me how fast that is because I dont really know)

    Like Matapiojo said. Welcome to the fight (and Im glad to have you on my team.)

  87. Space marine January 14, 2009 at 1:30 am -      #187

    (dont ask me how fast that is because I dont really know)
    Faster then Human eye’s can keep up with. Imagine Kharn, A blur.

    (Even though its impossible to tell which is stronger apperantly even in a 3 on 1 fight)

    I think Khorne is much stronger. Seeing how He is the God of battle And blood.

  88. L-W January 14, 2009 at 4:17 am -      #188

    “dont ask me how fast that is because I dont really know”

    I believe this quote from Kira perfectly surmises argument of the opposition. From what I can tell, such ignorance can only ever be a result of an actual refusal to read posts present in this thread. Otherwise how would knowledge commonly known within the confines of this discussion and repeated ad nasuem go unnoticed?

    – – –

    1) If the strength of a God is judged by the faith of it’s denizens, the occupants of the Eye of Terror certainly supersede anything present in either Termina or Hyrule. Chaos is an overwhelming force that resides in the hearts and thoughts of every sentient being in existence, it is fueled by every concept of valor, terror and evil imaginable and will only ever be vanquished when there is nothing to fuel it. Khorne alone, master over the trillions of Chaos disciples and an entire universe filled with nothing but Daemons is certainly a testament to the strength of the individual Chaos Gods.

    2) The warp is an (also referred to as the Empyrean, Aether or Immaterium) alternate dimension of pure, immaterial energy forged from the thoughts and emotions of every being that has and will ever exist within the infinite confines of the multiverse; the home of the Chaos Gods.

    The warp essentially grants Kharn immunity from magical and psychic attacks, whilst alleviating him from the crippling constraints of conventional real world physics and biology, time and space and irrelevant concepts to a guy who can literally disrupt the flow of quantum mechanics just by standing in one spot for long enough.

    Even the extremely daemonic temperatures of Skalathrax, capable of freezing a Space Marine to death within moments, never even fazed Kharn in the slightest during his crusade to destroy all life on the planet.

    3) Kharn’s physical aptitude is a result of him being a star pupil Space Marine who excelled his battle brothers throughout his century of training; and the favoured son of the Primarch Angron. He was one of the best the Marine corps could ever produce during the pre-heresy era and his promotion to the rank of Captain in the Eighth Assault Company was a sure fire thing in the eyes of the Emperor, even at his comparatively young age.

    In this respect, Space Marines are a lot like fine wine, or cheese, the longer they live the better they become. There is no known recorded natural lifespan for a Marine (A life of perpetual warfare tends to limit ones longevity), but their augmentations advance their bodies as they age, never once stopping or regressing as in the case of the average human. Continuously growing in stature, strength, intelligence and wisdom as they advance through the years.

    Kharn, being over ten thousand years old, is a prime example of Marine peak physical and mental aptitude. The reason his capabilities are so far above the average is merely because his age and wisdom only supplements his already excelled abilities. A bit of Warp energy never hurts either.

    4) Kharn is only ever enraged by weakness, which to Link is a horrible double-edged sword he is incapable of wielding. He loses either way.

  89. KiraMasteroftheNote January 14, 2009 at 4:09 pm -      #189

    “Faster then Human eye’s can keep up with. Imagine Kharn, A blur.”

    Link isnt human. He doesnt have human eyes. He is far far far faster than any human could be.

    As for the arguement of the gods. It isnt so much as how strong their followers faith is. Its more on what they are capable of. Like what they can create or destroy. Khorne is in no way stronger JUST because he is the God of Battle and Blood. Thats like saying the Fayore, Nayru, and Din are all powerful because of their own respectful elements. Nayru is powered most likely by the collective wisdoms of all beings. Farore is powered by peoples courage in my opinion. Din is powered by the strength of all beings (which technically Kharn contributes to because of the fact that he exists) if im not mistaken. Khorne is powered by War and hatred and I think at once it was said the blood and shed in his honor (im not looking for it again) all of which are on par with the source of just one of the godessess.

  90. AlphaCommando January 14, 2009 at 6:33 pm -      #190

    Every drop of blood spilt, every measure of anger ever felt, any rage ever released and even any act of violence ever done gives Khrone an element of power. Do not say that in several million years of warfare (there have been massive wars in the 40,000 universe since the beginning of time) that Khorne doesn’t have an inconceivable level of power that surpasses any deity that focuses on a single planet or even a few planets…

  91. L-W January 14, 2009 at 6:34 pm -      #191

    Do you have any actual proof of that? Or am I once again looking at an instance of pure, unadulterated, family friendly, conjecture?

    1) Judging from the depiction of Link’s eyes throughout the Zelda series as large orb like binocular structures clearly not designated for nocturnal activity (Why does he need the lantern otherwise?), it would indicate that a larger portion of his eyes cellular structure is dedicated to Cones, colour sensitive photoreceptors that increase the tristimulus value of his overall visual capacity.

    With less perceived Rod receptor activity (He does have terrible night vision), Link’s vision is wholly more dependent on colour based stimulus rather than light based movement, making him a poor judge of movement speed in objects excelling the normal rate of perception in Hominids.

    Ideally I wish I could uncover more variables that would strengthen my hypothesis regarding the evolution of the hyrulians, yet I cannot. Although my analysis is certainly more of a sound judgement than mere conjecture such as:

    “Link isnt human. He doesnt have human eyes = Faster”

    2) The Human in question depicted in the novels was an Imperial Guard scout under the command of the Inquisitor, who mouthed off a few things that not even a Space Marine should ever hear in the midst of cleansing a planet.

    Despite his optical relay augmentations (He was a scout after all) and his hardened and exponentially denser synaptic nerve relay, coupled with the fact that he was deliberately provoking the Marine for a response; lest to say they made it a poignant fact as to how quickly he could move across the room and choke the living crap out of him.

    Now take this variable and apply the ability to void the laws of physics that would slow down conventional Space Marines.

    3) You need to read my previous post on the workings of the immaterial warp before discussing the Chaos Gods any further.

  92. Matapiojo January 14, 2009 at 7:58 pm -      #192

    “Link isnt human. He doesnt have human eyes. He is far far far faster than any human could be.”

    Maybe so, but if you are suggesting that Kharn is human (a bit unclear by your far far far far far exaggerated text), you are sorely mistaken. Calling a Space Marine human is as far fetched as calling a Grizzly, hamster. Comparing the Betrayer to a human is far worse as we have proven ceaselessly that he is superior to regular space marines in every sense.

    “Khorne is powered by War and hatred and I think at once it was said the blood and shed in his honor (im not looking for it again) all of which are on par with the source of just one of the godessess.”

    This is just insulting. By this blatant display of laziness, all you do is irritate those individuals with whom you wish to have a discussion. Not only have we talked about this point to its death, we have beaten it with a mighty stick of pure logic.

    Parting from a very real theological standpoint (as opposed to what you presented), the study of these higher powers can take us to very strange places. Saying one is stronger because he can do such and such is simply ignorant. This is NOT the argument we previously made.

    We determined that he was stronger from the respective spheres of influence. Fayore, Nayru, and Din are deities from one planet. One world. One domain. Their abilities are so limited that each has imparted its essence into a shard that must be wielded by a mortal from their created domain. Thus the timeless struggle between Link, Ganondorf, and Zelda. There, contained in ONE world they wage war for balance in the realm. That’s it, that’s all they do.

    Sure there are other potent being in their planet, but again, their sphere of influence expands only to THAT planet.

    Now, when you have a nice glass of iced tea. Do you make it sweeter by adding a single grain of sugar, or a whole tablespoon? How sweet does it get with multiple tablespoons? Now imagine how sweet it will get with INFINITE amounts of tablespoons full of sugar.

    Its simple logic really. That one grain of sugar might be the most blissful experience you could ever have, but it will pale in comparison when you are tasting endless BUCKETS of sugar available from an all-you-can-eat buffet.


    That a concept you can understand?

    Khorne is fed by every single sentient being in the universe that has any emotion withing his domain. Note that he doesnt get power just from “negative” emotions, he even dominates over two very important emotions in the Legend of Zelda; Power and Courage. Know who those two belong to?

    Links gods are nowhere near the same playing field as 40K’s…specially the strongest of them all, The Blood God.

  93. Matapiojo January 14, 2009 at 10:06 pm -      #193


    Inadvertently, you just got smacked with the three-bomb!

  94. L-W January 14, 2009 at 11:20 pm -      #194

    Great timing team!

  95. KiraMasteroftheNote January 14, 2009 at 11:41 pm -      #195

    I was not saying Kharn was human. Or anything at all as weak and frail as one. I was just saying that Link was not one. I would say that Link and Kharn both being far greater than any human ever are about equal speed. But Link is more flexable and better at dodging. Especially since Kharn would never attempt to dodge an attack due to not feeling pain. Which could in a sense be his own undoing.

  96. x on January 14, 2009 at 11:47 pm -      #196

    Ya you guys had like godly timing in that one.

  97. L-W January 15, 2009 at 2:05 am -      #197

    Just because he cannot sense pain does not make him stupid, he is an excellent judge of an opponents worth; and since losing half of his head to the God Emperor, has developed the patience of a saint. Shedding his hubris many millennia before, Kharn will not allow himself to be struck unless it is either necessary or beyond his control (E.g. Free-falling from orbit).

    Given his speed (Which we’ve analytically proven to be superior) and undoubtedly greater range, it would be amazing for Link to even get one strike upon his opponent, especially since his striking range is more than twice the length of Links body. It’s simple mechanics.

    I’m also tired of having to explain this to everyone, the Space Marine armour is not as bulky as everyone claims it to be based on sight alone. It’s practically a second skin to these guys, and the longer they wear their power suit the more it and their own personal AI construct accustoms itself to the actual body, strengthening the synaptic and nervous connections to the point that operating a power suit becomes nothing more than an appendage unto itself. It allows them the brute strength to smash through reinforced walls, whilst enabling their finer senses to be nimble and precise enough to catch a butterfly without so much as harming it, or parrying with an Eldar sword master in hand to hand combat (Aliens so nimble that they barely make a sound as they move).

    And a century of dance training certainly goes a long way to improve their flexibility. Even a fourteen foot Chaplain master could pass for a veteran ballet dancer in the right context.

    – – –

    I can see why some posters are somewhat or possible infuriated by Kira, since it’s clear that he HAS NOT actually read any previous posts. So far we’ve analytically and solidly proven that not only is Kharn stronger (Proven), faster (Proven), more durable (Proven), far more intelligent (Proven), far more experienced (Proven); but his weapon, that weighs more than ten times Links entire body weight, would cleave Link with a single strike. He’s also immune to magical and spiritual attacks, protected by an exponentially greater God and can transform into a planet consuming Deamon capable of sinking continents with every foot fall…

    Whilst you’ve proven…Wait? What have you proven? You cannot even confirm whether or not any of Links weapons would even hurt Kharn.

    In this respect, I’m wondering why the hell this entire debate wasn’t concluded eons ago. It’s obvious that even the average Joe can recognize that all the attributes necessary to dictate a victory lie in the favour of the Betrayer; and not Link.

  98. KiraMasteroftheNote January 15, 2009 at 11:30 pm -      #198

    Since the triforce is the power of a god(ess) and a god has the power to create and destroy and cause everything in existance to vanish instantly. Would Link just be able to break the triforce of courage and thus bring about the end of everything.

    Or use his piece to take the full of the godess of courages power and then take the godess of wisdom and powers energy who would willingly give up themselves to him. Thus causing him to have the strength of 3 gods. Then he could take the power from his masks which he has control over and take the powers of each entity in them thus multiplying his power even farther especially with the Fierce Deitys power which is that of an extremely old war god (which is why he was sealed away in the first place) and then he can take the power of the Oracles and all of his magical weapons such as the staff of seasons and power braclet. Thus causing him to become even more powerful.

    Just because he hasnt yet done this doesnt mean he cant. If he did then there wouldnt be much of a game to play seeing as this course of action would make Link the most powerful being in existance after he (now able to do this) moves on the take the power of every god, goddess, and object of power he wants into himself. This will eventually cause him to have the power of all life and existance. After doing this he could just wink at Kharn and cause him to turn into a statue. Then he will command have a single drip of water fall on the statue until it is gone.

    I dictate that Link is now the winner. After he does these vast tasks in all of about a minute. The first tasks will be done in about a quarter of a second. He will return everything to normal and return home.

  99. Space marine January 16, 2009 at 1:42 am -      #199

    Link and Kharn both being far greater than any human ever are about equal speed. No……Wrong.

    Lol, Even the man with the bunny hood is supremley faster then link, Kharn is 20x faster than that.
    And link is a Hyrulien just the same as a hyrulien Guard. Just better equipment.

    Now I am Very infuriated with Kira’s Ignorance!
    Kharn is so fast he can Kill link in 0.12 seconds!!!!!

    And What skill does link have compared to Kharn?
    Link has moves; simply slashing and hacking, And kharn has, well, He is Kharn, So therfore he wins.

    Thats what you have been doing to us Kira!

  100. AlphaCommando January 16, 2009 at 3:47 am -      #200

    Ugh, wow; that was the more horrible theological analysis ever…of all time.

    First off, all of that was pure conjecture of the highest level. However; my main problem is that you use the more “western” description of a “god” meaning having infinite power (and thus infinite everything else). However alot of mythological lore has all the gods being far from infinite in terms of power; merely having omnipotence (as associated abilities), and based on just how the gods and goddesses interact in the games I would put them in the “not-infinite” category. Also; yet again, that was some of the most massively retarded conjecture I have ever, and I mean EVER; read. So now that you know you have lost, you are falling back on even more ridiculous ideas that I would seriously only expect from the insane.

    L-W, Mata; the floor is now yours….

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