Necron Lord Vs Ghost Rider

Necron Lord Vs Ghost Rider

Suggested by Matapiojo

Here we have a Necron Lord from Warhammer 40K facing off against Ghost Rider from the Marvel universe.

They encounter each other on Easter Island.

Who would win?

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258 Comments on "Necron Lord Vs Ghost Rider"

  1. Rookie July 24, 2014 at 6:59 am -      #1

    From what I know about GR he stomps. Some comics characters are just too OP for W40K.
    But I can be wrong though.

  2. Xornell July 24, 2014 at 7:01 am -      #2

    Don’t those Necron Lord fellows have some fairly hax timestop and teleportation abilities? Then again, comic antihero above street level (I think?). Gonna say the Ghost Rider for now.

  3. Neon Lord July 24, 2014 at 7:02 am -      #3

    Crap that’s a creepy pic.
    -
    And this kinda depends on the specifics on the Necron Lord’s loadout.

  4. Rookie July 24, 2014 at 7:15 am -      #4

    @Xornel
    -
    “Don’t those Necron Lord fellows have some fairly hax timestop and teleportation abilities? ”
    -
    Yep:
    -
    “A flash of translocation lit the grand tomb chamber. When it abated, the Architect was in a different room. Using his chronomancy, he had descended several levels in a nanosecond.”
    -
    from Fall of Damnos.
    But at the same time in that book Ultramarines owned necrons so hard that this not even funny (less than 200 or so SM vs necron world= 50 or so marines deads, one named marine dead (dreadnought) and over 1000 and 1000 necrons dead along with, 1, 2, 3… 4 named necrons lords.
    So yeah. Either necrons are stupid or they just too weak. After reading Fall of Damnos I think that both is correct.
    Sadly necrons are just too weak in novels.

  5. Rookie July 24, 2014 at 7:16 am -      #5

    Why is my comment “Your comment is awaiting moderation. ” ? There is not a single link in it!
    Anyway here’s a few feats for Necrons:
    factpile.com/9430-necron-lord-vs-samus/

  6. Parry Boy July 24, 2014 at 7:25 am -      #6

    ^^
    That’s some pretty solid ones, but I’m calling Matapiojo for this

  7. Murder July 24, 2014 at 8:32 am -      #7

    GR wins with a single blast of hellfire. It literaly says that hellfire can melt anything in the MU… which to me the MU is leaps and bounds ahead of W40k durability. Can the NL teleport away and repair?
    -
    Necrons are souless, so that limits GR’s abilities. The NL is also physically stronger (10 tonner gr vs 20-30tonner nl), but I can’t see how it stops GR. Hellfire stomps.

  8. the watcher July 24, 2014 at 9:07 am -      #8

    How long ago was this suggested?
    -
    On topic, if GR is like anything else Marvel has, necron isn’t going to win this. Unless NL is able to reform from the hellfire, in which case I see this battle going on forever.

  9. Rookie July 24, 2014 at 9:14 am -      #9

    @the watcher
    -
    “Unless NL is able to reform from the hellfire, in which case I see this battle going on forever.”
    -
    Necron lords are killed left and right in novels at least (for example Fall of Damnos). Unless this Necron Lord is not some composite being or some top level named character he isn’t gonna to last long.

  10. the watcher July 24, 2014 at 9:21 am -      #10

    If this was suggested as long ago as I think it was, then the NL is one of the ubercrons that needed titans to banish. But you’re right, from 2012 onwards they got rather weak.

  11. jackn8r July 24, 2014 at 10:35 am -      #11

    @Rookie
    Sometimes keywords set it off. We’ve found a few terms ‘censored’ but oddly enough swears aren’t at all.

  12. Ranger Lowk July 24, 2014 at 10:37 am -      #12

    GR runs him over with his car. Thats right I said car. hellfire muscle car bitches.

  13. wingedlion July 24, 2014 at 12:07 pm -      #13

    @lowk
    ….car?

  14. OberHerr July 24, 2014 at 12:16 pm -      #14

    Should have been Trazyn…..
    -
    1d4chan.org/images/thumb/0/07/Trazyn.jpg/300px-Trazyn.jpg

  15. Ranger Lowk July 24, 2014 at 12:50 pm -      #15

    “….car?”
    -
    Yeah
    bangshift.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Cars-1.jpg

  16. Rookie July 24, 2014 at 1:16 pm -      #16

    Ghost Rider for BankGambling Award.

  17. Ragnorke July 24, 2014 at 1:43 pm -      #17

    “GR wins with a single blast of hellfire. It literaly says that hellfire can melt anything in the MU… which to me the MU is leaps and bounds ahead of W40k durability”
    -
    This is hyperbole and totally bullshit.
    -
    I really dislike GR… and Necron Lord looks cool… but eh

  18. Blazing Waffles July 24, 2014 at 2:44 pm -      #18

    Rider, on account of the necron lord’s inability to kill him. Unless the NL pulls out some Heavenly weapons, Rider will keep getting back up no matter what he’s hit with.
    -
    In contrast, Rider could tear the necron apart without too much difficulty, but that really depends on who is in control, Johnny Blaze or Zarathos. I’m assuming Blaze?

  19. Rookie July 24, 2014 at 2:51 pm -      #19

    @Blazing Waffles
    -
    “but that really depends on who is in control, Johnny Blaze or Zarathos. I’m assuming Blaze?”
    -
    AFAIK we use current version of GR for this.
    Who is in control in current version?

  20. OberHerr July 24, 2014 at 2:57 pm -      #20

    According to FP rules, the Necron Lord is assumed to be able to kill GR. So….we just assume his weapon is heavenly or what not?
    -
    Or we just assume he can’t come back.

  21. Rookie July 24, 2014 at 3:01 pm -      #21

    @OberHerr
    -
    “According to FP rules, the Necron Lord is assumed to be able to kill GR. So….we just assume his weapon is heavenly or what not?”
    -
    Can’t GR be banished if his physical form destroyed or something?
    Cause buffing Necron with good weapon is a bit unfair IMO.

  22. the watcher July 24, 2014 at 3:09 pm -      #22

    I say we use 3rd edition necron lord. Then he’ll be able to pop back together. Edit: And it was probably the ‘current’ NL when Mata suggested this.
    -
    @ober
    We assume that in this case the necron’s tech can hurt him, not that it’s any better than it was.
    -
    And Trazyn is OP. He abducts primarchs….

  23. Rookie July 24, 2014 at 3:21 pm -      #23

    @the watcher
    -
    “He abducts primarchs….”
    -
    Was this confirmed?
    -
    “And Trazyn is OP.”
    -
    Just wait untill someone write a novel with him. They do a funny thing with characters. Like turning characters into idiots and depower them by alot.

  24. pimpmage July 24, 2014 at 3:46 pm -      #24

    He didn’t abduct a primarch. I remember reading the description of that fluff. It doesn’t mention the height of the person, it just said something along the lines of ‘pimped out’ archaec power armor. Hell, it could just be a suit of armor. Nothing hints about it being a primarch at all.

  25. OberHerr July 24, 2014 at 3:50 pm -      #25

    I think he stole Vulkan, and tried to steal Papa Smurf for awhile….
    -
    I’ll just give a good old list of his trolls….
    -
    Killed five invading regiments of Catachans, then turned them into miniatures for his collection.
    -
    Sent Inquisitor Valeria fan mail (maybe, we can’t tell if he was being sarcastic in the letter) attached to an armed tesseract labyrinth as a reward for “gifting” him said Catachan regiments. huh, maybe that’s why she was not in codex inquisition eh?
    -
    Banned from the Necron throne world of Mandragora after trying to loot Imotekh’s staff. (Pops in whenever he feels like it anyway.)
    -
    Stole Sebastian Thor’s head (assuming it’s the real one, there’s like five other museums claiming to have his skeleton).
    -
    Took the World Spirit Shrine of Carnac, an Exodite world as a trophy for helping to conquer it.
    -
    Uses other Necron Lords as body doubles without telling them.
    -
    Told the Ultrasmurfs all he was old pals with Rawbutt Girlyman.
    -
    And then informed them that maybe he was going to take Papa Smurf, as he’d be better off with him than in the company of the Ultrasmurfs
    -
    Has a fucking PRIMARCH stored at his pad, supposedly… Possibly Vulkan according to White Dwarf, which makes the next one all the more hilarious.
    -
    Told Vulkan He’stan he had the Song of Entropy, luring the Salamanders into a 10-year war with the Necrons. At the end of it, Trazyn pretty much said “just kidding, I don’t have the Song of Entropy,” as he tried to steal the Spear of Vulkan. Kind of back fired when Vulkan He’stan decided to just give him the Spear. Tip first. He’stan was pretty pissed when he learned Trazyn just jumped into another body.
    -
    Twice.

  26. the watcher July 24, 2014 at 4:33 pm -      #26

    ^from 4chan. Doesn’t mean it’s not true though.
    -
    @pimp
    Exact quote from the necron codex, page 50.
    “A giant of a man clad in baroque power armor”
    So there is a person in the suit, and whoever it is is huge. Ogryns are that size, but they don’t wear fancy suits, which leaves marines/custodes and primarchs.
    -
    White dwarf from February of this year hints that it’s Vulkan, which makes sense fluff wise. Otherwise it could be Khan, Corax, Alpharius, or Russ.

  27. wingedlion July 24, 2014 at 4:34 pm -      #27

    “According to FP rules, the Necron Lord is assumed to be able to kill GR. So….we just assume his weapon is heavenly or what not?”
    -
    what rule was this?

  28. the watcher July 24, 2014 at 4:39 pm -      #28

    Whichever one that says each persons stuff works the way it does in his home universe, and the one that says each one has a means of killing the other.
    Rules 7, 9, and 10
    Doesn’t mean he gets heavenly stuff though.

  29. pimpmage July 24, 2014 at 4:40 pm -      #29

    It isn’t alpharius.. Why would you say that?

  30. OberHerr July 24, 2014 at 4:40 pm -      #30

    @wingedlion
    7. Achieving Victory
    Unless specified otherwise by the scenario, all battles are fought to the death, and all plot shields (see rule number “8″) that would prevent combatants to fight this way are lifted or ignored.

    Certain combatants may or may not have inherent restrictions or other unique conditions for their demise. Examples of this are Superman’s weakness to Kryptonite, and Sauron’s Ring of Power being unmade only by the elements that made it (Mount Doom). In these situations, certain elements may be compatible with similar items from other franchises/universes. However, said exclusive elements will be made available in the neutral arena. See rules number “9″ and “10″ for details regarding No Limit elements and compatibility between these.

    Although victory is assumed to happen at the point of a defeated party’s death, and/or permanent incapacitation, there are a great number of other determining factors, particularly in the case of immortal or near-immortal combatants, to be taken into consideration for a final victory. See rule number “1″ for the channels to following order to reach an official determination
    -
    So not exactly what I thought it was.
    -
    Though I think we’ve had it in the past where we just assume, if a certain item is required to be used to kill someone, we give some leeway on it.

  31. the watcher July 24, 2014 at 4:44 pm -      #31

    @pimpmage
    Because he/Omegon is one of the only Primarchs who we don’t have info on their deaths. Then again, he and Corax don’t wear fancy armor IIRC.

  32. wingedlion July 24, 2014 at 4:44 pm -      #32

    hmm…
    why didn’t this come up in any fight with people like,say, alucard in it?
    did people just forget it?

  33. OberHerr July 24, 2014 at 4:45 pm -      #33

    Bah. Darn bold.

  34. the watcher July 24, 2014 at 4:47 pm -      #34

    Probs cause of wanking/people being drunk.

  35. jackn8r July 24, 2014 at 5:19 pm -      #35

    “According to FP rules, the Necron Lord is assumed to be able to kill GR. So….we just assume his weapon is heavenly or what not?”
    -
    That’s not what the rule says. Opponents must be made defeatable i.e. not omnipotent.
    Most recent incarnation is used. If it’s a stomp, it’s a stomp. Rule 2.

  36. OberHerr July 24, 2014 at 5:35 pm -      #36

    I think we’ve just always kinda made it so the other side can actually….kill others. It should be a rule regardless.

  37. Mea quidem sententia July 24, 2014 at 5:44 pm -      #37

    This Necron lord is not specified, but from the overview at Lexicanum, the basic weapon is a staff of light, which can be upgraded to a warscythe. The staff of light fires powerful lightning bolts. The secondary effect is freezing the opponent’s limbs, mechanical or otherwise.
    -
    Supposedly, warscythes, with a “well directed attack can take off the end of a Leman Russ Battle Tank or scythe open the side of a bunker”. It looks clunky as hell and if we’re applying our physical law, it wouldn’t be very effective in combat.
    -
    wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Necron_Equipment_(List)#.U9F9-vldUa8
    -
    That’s what Necron lords can use, I suppose. I’m not going to give a summary for each. Read it at your own leisure.

  38. Jake_Uzumaki July 24, 2014 at 6:12 pm -      #38

    The strength of the Ghost Rider is sufficient to toss large construction equipment like it’s a baseball.
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/123441/2702682-dk_gr_feat_strength_vs_100_tons.jpg
    -
    Hellfire blast, seems to actually cause some pain to World War Hulk.
    i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Ghost%20Rider/ghostriderhellblast.jpg
    s160.photobucket.com/user/EndlessMike9/media/Ghost%20Rider/ghostriderattackshulk.jpg.html
    -
    another hellfire blast (he punched the bodies head off for the record)
    i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Ghost%20Rider/GR_16_024.jpg
    i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Ghost%20Rider/GR_16_025.jpg

  39. pimpmage July 24, 2014 at 6:22 pm -      #39

    “Because he/Omegon is one of the only Primarchs who we don’t have info on their deaths.”
    -
    Because they are most likely not dead. We know nothing about them because that is their style. Just because we don’t know about them doesn’t mean you could throw them into some wacky fan theories.
    -
    How would hulk vs GH play out? Composite?

  40. Jake_Uzumaki July 24, 2014 at 6:28 pm -      #40

    @Pimpmage
    assuming a fully unchained Ghost Rider out to destroy the Hulk…Hulk is screwed. The reason Hulk didn’t get raped by GR when he did go unchained is he was technically innocent and thus the spirit gave no shits. But…well even Dr. Strange was concerned by the idea of a fully unchained Ghost Rider and he slaps around universal abominations so..that tells you something.

  41. Ragnorke July 24, 2014 at 6:37 pm -      #41

    @Jake
    ” But…well even Dr. Strange was concerned by the idea of a fully unchained Ghost Rider and he slaps around universal abominations so..that tells you something.”
    -
    Eh, i’ts all just claims.
    Pretty much anyone with magic or reality warping can beat him.
    He’s just a bitch to deal with for people who rely solely on physical attacks… But then you have the higher tier heroes who would probably roflstomp him too.
    -
    Sure, his “potential” is pretty high, but he lacks impressive feats.
    He can get speedblitzed or BFRed with ease.
    -
    Oh, and the Penance Stare has failed. More then once, on some not so high tier characters.

  42. Jake_Uzumaki July 24, 2014 at 7:06 pm -      #42

    @Ragnorke
    he has literally ripped Mehpisto’s heart out before. Ghost Rider I mean, and the few times it’s failed on low tier characters was more due to mental state then lack of damaging potential. Hell Dr. Strange has even been ko’d by it. The stare depends on the ability of the victim to feel remorse.
    -
    It also doesn’t change that a Necron Lord weighs a fuck ton less than large pieces of construction equipment and that Hellfire has hurt beings far more durable…like the above blast that was able to hurt Hulk at his strongest.
    -
    A Ghost Rider the very one eventually bound to Blaze ripped out Mephisto’s heart while in Mephisto’s realm and was more than capable of killing Mephisto until Blackheart blindesidded him.
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/102593/3121684-0+%281%29.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/102593/3121685-0+%282%29.jpg
    -
    We’re talking about a cheap piece of zombie scrap metal not a Chaos god. If this was movie Ghost Rider the Necron would have a chance, comic Ghost Rider is a whole different story altogether.

  43. Ragnorke July 24, 2014 at 7:16 pm -      #43

    Oh, i’m not comparing him to the Necron. Was jus’ sayin in general ^^

  44. jackn8r July 24, 2014 at 7:24 pm -      #44

    “I think we’ve just always kinda made it so the other side can actually….kill others. It should be a rule regardless.”
    -
    Well, that would be the most recent incarnation prior to death and/or incapacitation that would prevent them from engaging in battle at optimum efficiency part of the rule. Except it applies to fighting efficiently period–as it should, not killing. A stomp is a stomp. If one side can’t kill the other, it likely loses. That’s the match. Not all fights are good ones.
    -
    “Eh, i’ts all just claims.”
    -
    Authorial intent isn’t a claim.
    -
    -
    Ghost Rider takes this. Mata’s a Ghost Rider fanboy, and this was likely suggested a long long time ago. It makes sense.

  45. Jake_Uzumaki July 24, 2014 at 7:41 pm -      #45

    @jackn8r
    well there is one rule that says if only a certain element can kill a combatant it’s on the field, but I’m not sure how much good a heaven sword or bullet would do a Necron unless it could react before getting toasted.

  46. Ranger Lowk July 24, 2014 at 7:47 pm -      #46

    So are there 3 ghost riders right now? I mean the only one I’ve seen current is Robbie Reyes(Car Rider) who currently has an on going series. Though I think at one point Johnny was in thunderbolts. But that was a while ago.

  47. Ragnorke July 24, 2014 at 7:50 pm -      #47

    “Authorial intent isn’t a claim.”
    -
    Dr. Strange “claimed” GR could have killed WWH, but who gives a shit what he claimed?
    We haven’t seen GR pull off feats like that.
    -
    Sentry claims to have the power of a million exploding suns. He should roflstomp galactus with that logic.
    -
    anyhow, GR likely stomps here

  48. Jake_Uzumaki July 24, 2014 at 7:56 pm -      #48

    @Ragnorke
    except Sentry doesn’t know his own limits so he was just saying something that sounded powerful.
    -
    Dr. Strange wrote the book on entities like Ghost Rider and is the undisputed expert on all things mystical in the Marvel 616 universe and beyond. It’s his job to know what things like Ghost Rider are capable of.

  49. Ranger Lowk July 24, 2014 at 8:07 pm -      #49

    Assuming we are going Johnny Blaze
    -
    Ghost rider vs Thor and destroys building sized man thing
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/89577/3936019-7738729933-Hu9F..jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/89577/3936020-2245831504-Hu9G..jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/89577/3936021-3073447408-Hu9K..jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/89577/3936022-3213978978-Hu9M..jpg
    ===
    Robbie got fewer high showings and not sure other ghost rider feats translate to him.
    Strong enhough to swing I beams and his hits cause sonic booms, his car can laugh of rockets.

  50. Ragnorke July 24, 2014 at 8:08 pm -      #50

    ” It’s his job to know what things like Ghost Rider are capable of.”
    -
    As i said, he could have the potential to do it, but it doesn’t mean we assume he can do it in a match.
    He’s lacking the necessary feats to put him on that level.

  51. Ninja Xtreme July 24, 2014 at 8:09 pm -      #51

    You guys read the new Dragon Ball Manga? It talks about Goku’s Mum.

  52. the watcher July 24, 2014 at 8:20 pm -      #52

    Where does Goku’s mom come into this?
    -
    Ghost Rider wins this. I wasn’t ever trying to suggest otherwise, just that Mata probably suggested this back when Necrons where titan soloing death machines.
    -
    @pimp
    Pretty sure GR would beat Hulk, but not entirely sure.
    And about the primarchs things, there are only 5 primarchs it could be, one of them went missing in the webway, so probably not him, that leaves it 4, then corax doesn’t wear fancy suits, that makes 3, Russ’ armor was found in the EoT, that leaves 2, and Alpharius/”Alpharius” sometimes wears a fancy suit of armor, and so does Vulkan. Seeing as we have no idea where either of them are, there’s a 1/2 or 2/3 chance that it’s one of the Alpharii. Fluff hints that it’s Vulkan more though.
    -
    @lowk.
    Those pics aren’t working for me.
    Edit: Deleted extra periods in the link, see if they work now.
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/89577/3936019-7738729933-Hu9F.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/89577/3936020-2245831504-Hu9G.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/89577/3936021-3073447408-Hu9K.jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/89577/3936022-3213978978-Hu9M.jpg
    Edit2.
    Nope.

  53. Jake_Uzumaki July 24, 2014 at 8:24 pm -      #53

    @Ragnorke
    yes because making a being thats universal while in his domain beg it not to crush his heart like a grape while isn’t any kind of sign what kind of power unchained ghost rider has….

  54. jackn8r July 24, 2014 at 10:13 pm -      #54

    “Dr. Strange “claimed” GR could have killed WWH, but who gives a shit what he claimed?
    We haven’t seen GR pull off feats like that.”
    -
    You don’t think the author wouldn’t have included something like that in the first place if it had no significance?
    -
    “Sentry claims to have the power of a million exploding suns. He should roflstomp galactus with that logic.”
    -
    That’s self-boasting. Very different.
    -
    “As i said, he could have the potential to do it, but it doesn’t mean we assume he can do it in a match.”
    -
    If you are canonically able to do something, you can do it in a FP match. The Death Star has the potential to blow up planets meaning it can blow it up in an FP match.
    -
    “He’s lacking the necessary feats to put him on that level.”
    -
    Feats aren’t always necessary to scope capabilities of a character.

  55. Ragnorke July 24, 2014 at 10:33 pm -      #55

    “You don’t think the author wouldn’t have included something like that in the first place if it had no significance?”
    -
    The author called Sentry “The strongest being Thor had ever seen” from an omnipotent perspective narration.
    Does that mean Sentry can beat The Living Tribunal?
    -
    “That’s self-boasting. Very different.”
    -
    Other people have said it too, Including the author. Many many times. He’s often called “god” aswell.
    Nonetheless, his greatest feat was about planet-busting, so we stick to that.
    -
    “If you are canonically able to do something, you can do it in a FP match. The Death Star has the potential to blow up planets meaning it can blow it up in an FP match.”
    -
    Have we SEEN ghost rider do things on the same scale as WWH though? In the mainstream universe, and not in demonic realms.
    He isn’t canonically proven to do it. A character thinks he has the potential to do it, BIG fucking difference.
    -
    “Feats aren’t always necessary to scope capabilities of a character.”
    -
    This is the first time i’v ever heard someone say this on BankGambling.
    Claims mean nothing unless backed up.
    -
    “yes because making a being thats universal while in his domain beg it not to crush his heart like a grape while isn’t any kind of sign what kind of power unchained ghost rider has….”
    -
    Power scaling works in a completely different way in the demon realms, just saying.
    Dr. Strange fights off universal threats ALL the time in other realms, but in the mainstream universe he’s shown to do nothing but use prep time along with Ironman and reed for some Hax stuff.
    Remember when the celestial was destroying earth? Dr. Strange couldn’t do shit but pray to Thor.

  56. pimpmage July 24, 2014 at 10:55 pm -      #56

    Did anyone see the Dr strange references in the new captain america movie? He was on a hit list to be killed by the Hydra group. I thought that sounded extremely silly that they thought they could knock him off.

  57. Ranger Lowk July 24, 2014 at 10:58 pm -      #57

    So what is the debate on WWH ghost rider strange etc about? Does it pertain to the match or is it just a side debate.
    ===
    Anyway, GR took a hit from Mjolnir resulting in a large explosion, Took some hit from Thor, fought against multiple avengers, and his hellfire was enough to knock Thor out of the fight for a bit.
    -
    So what The necron lord got going for him?

  58. Ragnorke July 24, 2014 at 10:59 pm -      #58

    ” I thought that sounded extremely silly that they thought they could knock him off.”
    -
    He might not have been the sorcerer supreme yet

  59. Ranger Lowk July 24, 2014 at 11:02 pm -      #59

    ” I thought that sounded extremely silly that they thought they could knock him off.”
    -
    Considering how underwhelming Thor is and assuming he’s probably going through his origin story around or a little after the current events I’m guessing Strange is not as powerful as some are accustomed.

  60. jackn8r July 24, 2014 at 11:45 pm -      #60

    “The author called Sentry “The strongest being Thor had ever seen” from an omnipotent perspective narration.
    Does that mean Sentry can beat The Living Tribunal?”
    -
    Source? Also source of Thor interacting with LT prior?
    -
    “Other people have said it too, Including the author. Many many times. He’s often called “god” aswell.
    Nonetheless, his greatest feat was about planet-busting, so we stick to that.”
    -
    Source of author stating Sentry has the power of one millions exploding suns? The term “god” means little in Marvel; that’s nothing.
    -
    “He isn’t canonically proven to do it. A character thinks he has the potential to do it, BIG fucking difference.”
    -
    Once again, authorial intent (through a character who also should have said canonical knowledge no less) is very far from random character claims.
    -
    “This is the first time i’v ever heard someone say this on BankGambling.
    Claims mean nothing unless backed up.”
    -
    Then you haven’t been around much I guess.
    By your logic it is impossible to be omnipotent. There is no such thing as a feat that can prove omnipotence, but according to you feats are the only admissible canon. That is completely false and it’s quite easy to come up with examples where statements are canon even without feats behind them. Right off the top of my head: pretty much everything in pokemon given by the pokedexes. If you want to read more on this, head over to the Topia.
    www.factpiletopia.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1429
    Also just a nitpick: again claims from characters who are canonically qualified to know said information acting on behalf of authorial intent are VERY different from hyperbole-ridden character boasts. As an example again, look at Cell’s solar system claim.

  61. Commander Cross July 24, 2014 at 11:55 pm -      #61

    @Ranger Lowk at #59

    I won’t be stupid to hope MCU SS Doctor Strange is anywhere Near as Dangerously Hax-y as his 616 SS-self happens to be, but I will hope in good faith that MCU SS Strange will Still Be Boss in his own right by the time MCU Strange’s Origin Story ends.
    If he is anything less than Boss, let there be Blood, Carnage and Hellfire.

  62. jackn8r July 25, 2014 at 12:49 am -      #62

    Imagine if we were using animated-verse GR

  63. Ragnorke July 25, 2014 at 12:57 am -      #63

    “Source? Also source of Thor interacting with LT prior?”
    -
    Can’t find the scans of Thor meating LT atm, but i’m fairly certain they have met. Forget about LT, Thor has met many galaxy busters such as Odin & Surter.
    -
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111132618/3462391-3276415-0%2B(16).jpg
    Omni perspective narrator says: “The terrible power and raw strength of the most powerful being he’s ever met strikes swiftly”
    So, going by what the author said, Sentry is a galaxy buster? Above Odin & Surter?
    Yet he doesn’t have any feats above planet busting.
    Your call.
    -
    “Source of author stating Sentry has the power of one millions exploding suns?”
    -
    There’s a lot of narration boxes in Dark Avengers where he is referred to as “the man with the power of a million/thousand exploding suns”
    It’s really common in the Dark Avengers, i have no idea what to search to find the scans though.
    Anyways, the above scan should be enough.
    -
    “Once again, authorial intent (through a character who also should have said canonical knowledge no less) is very far from random character claims.”
    -
    Well, here’s a Sentry example that disagrees with you.
    -
    “Right off the top of my head: pretty much everything in pokemon given by the pokedexes”
    -
    Funnily enough, TheSorrow and I proved the pokedex false on a couple of occasions. In one of the more recent pokemon threads.
    So yea, claims need to be supported by something. Characters can be wrong.
    -
    Bottom line is, even if ghost rider can POTENTIALLY beat WWH (which i’m agreeing to), that doesn’t automatically make him able to do it whenever he damn well pleases.
    Perhaps he hasn’t mastered the technique required yet, perhaps he hasn’t reached the power levels he needs to be at.

  64. Parry Boy July 25, 2014 at 5:39 am -      #64

    @jack
    Daaaaaamn

  65. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 25, 2014 at 2:40 pm -      #65

    “You guys read the new Dragon Ball Manga?”
    -
    Is there really a new DB manga?

  66. Rookie July 25, 2014 at 2:53 pm -      #66

    @CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets
    -
    “Is there really a new DB manga?”
    -
    dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Ball_Minus

  67. Blazing Waffles July 25, 2014 at 3:18 pm -      #67

    “Sure, his “potential” is pretty high, but he lacks impressive feats.”
    -
    Again, a lot of it has to do with whether the host is in control, or Zarathos is. The host only has access to the usual Rider powers – mid-tier super-strength, hellfire, Penance Stare, chains, regeneration, and near-invulnerability. If Zarathos is in control, he could stomp Mephisto if he needed to, which puts him somewhere near Galactus’ league, but probably not quite on par with the world-eater.

  68. jackn8r July 25, 2014 at 3:43 pm -      #68

    “So, going by what the author said, Sentry is a galaxy buster? Above Odin & Surter?
    Yet he doesn’t have any feats above planet busting.
    Your call.”
    -
    No it’s not my call and you haven’t proved a single thing, all you’ve given is a contradiction found in Marvel comic. They’re rampant, contradictions are found in all fiction. Read the Topia thread I linked.
    When you say “claims need feats” you’re not talking about the correct thing. As debaters when we make claims we have burden of proof to support them. In universe claims are treated differently depending whether it’s the author’s intent, realistically true, or blatant hyperbole. In this case it’s quite obviously the author’s intent and since you haven’t given a contradiction to this particular instance, there’s nothing to do but go with the canon.
    -
    “There’s a lot of narration boxes in Dark Avengers where he is referred to as “the man with the power of a million/thousand exploding suns”
    It’s really common in the Dark Avengers, i have no idea what to search to find the scans though.
    Anyways, the above scan should be enough.”
    -
    Well, no this is entirely different actually. In the first you found a contradiction. If the omniscient narrator really did say that he has the strength of a million exploding suns, then it would have to be taken as true. Saying that this is also a contradiction because we’ve never seen him planet bust is a fallacy. If I can jump 2 feet in the air and you know for a fact I can but I never have, that doesn’t mean I can’t. So no, not the same. No contradiction here, but there was previously.
    -
    “Well, here’s a Sentry example that disagrees with you.”
    -
    The example you gave doesn’t counter anything I’ve said. You found a contradiction within Marvel. There is no contradiction with Ghost Rider.
    -
    -
    -
    Claiming that his state of not having feats to affirm what the author is communicating is a contradiction is a negative proof/appeal to ignorance fallacy.
    You state there is a lack of evidence in the form of feats to the contrary of your stance and thus the stance is incorrect. That in of itself is a fallacy and consequently cannot form a contradiction with authorial intent evidence.
    -
    -
    -
    You are arguing that what the author intends for the reader has no relevance. That’s totally wrong.
    -
    “Funnily enough, TheSorrow and I proved the pokedex false on a couple of occasions. In one of the more recent pokemon threads. So yea, claims need to be supported by something.”
    -
    Proof by example fallacy. The premise is true.
    -
    “Characters can be wrong.”
    -
    I’m not denying that. This character happens to be extremely well qualified to have said knowledge in canon though and is explicitly conveying authorial intent through his dialogue.
    -
    “Bottom line is, even if ghost rider can POTENTIALLY beat WWH (which i’m agreeing to), that doesn’t automatically make him able to do it whenever he damn well pleases.”
    -
    Why not? We assume combatants are fighting at their optimum efficiency in FP matches.
    -
    “Perhaps he hasn’t mastered the technique required yet, perhaps he hasn’t reached the power levels he needs to be at.”
    -
    That’s just not the case.
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/1912980-gr_13_0023.jpg
    He uses the present tense when describing his power not a future/conditional tense.

  69. Crimson Sentry July 26, 2014 at 11:32 am -      #69

    The current GR is a girl named Alejandra who would get soundly beat in my opinion by a Necron Lord. However if Blaze is being used there’d need to be more debate on feats and if we were bringing the Spirit of Vengeance in on this it’d be no contest. Assuming that we are just using feats of when the most recent GR Alejandra is in control I’m giving it to the Necron Lord considering he’s faster, stronger, smarter and could probably BFR Alejandra if need be.

  70. Ragnorke July 26, 2014 at 12:28 pm -      #70

    “Well, no this is entirely different actually. In the first you found a contradiction. If the omniscient narrator really did say that he has the strength of a million exploding suns, then it would have to be taken as true.”
    -
    Or it could be taken as Hyperbole, since being called “the man with the power of a million exploding suns” is more a title.
    -
    “That’s just not the case.
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/1912980-gr_13_0023.jpg
    He uses the present tense when describing his power not a future/conditional tense.”
    -
    Very VERY specifically says “possible”.
    He says it’s POSSIBLE for GR to beat the Hulk.
    -
    The Beyonder (Living tribunal tier character) said Hulks strength was limitless when he met him. And that the Hulk could literally become unstoppable.
    Does that mean we assume he has limitless strength in every match/fight? No, we stick to the feats we have seen.
    The same should apply to GR.

  71. Ranger Lowk July 26, 2014 at 12:32 pm -      #71

    “The current GR is a girl named Alejandra”
    -
    You sure about that? A recent Uncanny avengers had Johnny as the ghost rider and an even more recent ghost rider comic has robbie as ghost rider as well.

  72. Cassie Hack July 26, 2014 at 12:38 pm -      #72

    It’s Blaze currently, though I suppose more than one person could probably have the Rider’s powers at the same time?

  73. Jake_Uzumaki July 26, 2014 at 3:03 pm -      #73

    There’s more than one spirit of vengeance so there can be more than one Rider.
    Currently there are three active Ghost Riders
    Blaze
    Danny Ketch
    and the new guy Robbie Reyes
    -
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/3039167-ghost+rider+009-37.jpg
    Alejandre has a fragment of the power…an echo of it similar to some people getting echoes of the Phoenix Force it’s no the real power itself but it’s impressive power.
    -
    There’s a difference between Blaze and the others though, Blaze has the original and most powerful Spirit of Vengeance, the Wrath of God, Blaze is a very tiny faucet being used to channel an ocean. The other two have other spirits Ketch’s was made by the Archangel Uriel and while powerful is a lesser spirit, Robbie’s is of unknown origin and is called Eli.
    -
    From the mouth of Satan himself (through one of his final remaining avatars) The Rider(Johnny Blaze and Zarathos) is not just any agent of Heaven, but the Wrath of God, he’s the heavy artillery
    i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Ghost%20Rider/GR_18_0029.jpg
    i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Ghost%20Rider/GR_18_0030.jpg
    i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Ghost%20Rider/GR_18_0035.jpg
    -
    So there is an important distinction between Blaze and other lesser Riders.

  74. jackn8r July 26, 2014 at 5:02 pm -      #74

    “Or it could be taken as Hyperbole, since being called “the man with the power of a million exploding suns” is more a title.”
    -
    You haven’t actually posted the scan so why should I take your word that it being a random title was the context? Moreover, this tosses your whole counter-example argument out the window because then there’s no contradiction with Sentry in your example (i.e. no claim of his power,) and it isn’t analogous anyway because Strange isn’t giving GR any title.
    -
    “He says it’s POSSIBLE for GR to beat the Hulk.”
    -
    Exactly my point. Use Occam’s Razor please and realize this narration is given in the present tense. If a conditional tense was used, your interpretation may have held a little more water, but at this point you’re just grasping at straws saying “well what if he meant possible if this or if that happened first” when no conditional phrasing or indication in the scan of anything more being needed was given.
    -
    “The Beyonder (Living tribunal tier character) said Hulks strength was limitless when he met him. And that the Hulk could literally become unstoppable.
    Does that mean we assume he has limitless strength in every match/fight? No, we stick to the feats we have seen.
    The same should apply to GR.”
    -
    Again, this is a false analogy.
    Pre or post-retcon beyonder? Because post may not have had canonical knowledge of the Hulk’s power and it could be hyperbole (unlike Strange who is canonically aware.)
    Regardless, like I pointed out we simply know that’s not true because we’ve seen the Hulk clearly have limits. This is the same situation as the supernova counter-example you gave and it isn’t a valid one because no contradiction is found with GR.
    No contradiction means there’s no evidence to be disregarded. Like I pointed out, attempting to prove a contradiction through a lack of feats is fallacious.
    -
    At this point you’re just trying to come up with as many examples as you can to try and disprove the notion that authorial intent matters.
    There’s no point because you’re not attacking the argument directly, and the premise is true.

  75. Jake_Uzumaki July 26, 2014 at 5:17 pm -      #75

    It’s also moot for this match as Blaze can kill a Necron Lord without effort…

  76. Ragnorke July 26, 2014 at 6:40 pm -      #76

    “Exactly my point. Use Occam’s Razor please and realize this narration is given in the present tense. If a conditional tense was used, your interpretation may have held a little more water, but at this point you’re just grasping at straws saying “well what if he meant possible if this or if that happened first” ”
    -
    Or “possible” could mean there’s a CHANCE ghost rider could beat Hulk, but Strange isn’t sure, therefor he uses the word possible instead of flat out saying that ghost rider CAN beat the hulk.
    -
    “Pre or post-retcon beyonder? Because post may not have had canonical knowledge of the Hulk’s power and it could be hyperbole (unlike Strange who is canonically aware.)”
    -
    Pre, he was living tribunal level, and almost completely omnipotent.
    His knowledge of the Hulk is FAR superior to Stranges.
    And he says Hulks power is limitless, very similar to how Strange said ghost riders power has “no bounds”
    What’s the difference?
    -
    “Regardless, like I pointed out we simply know that’s not true because we’ve seen the Hulk clearly have limits.”
    -
    Wait wait wait…
    So you’re actually saying Ghost Rider has no limits? And that his power does in fact have “no bounds” ?
    With that logic Ghost Rider should instantly win every match he ever has.
    It’s EXACTLY how beyonder said Hulk has no limits, yet we clearly see the hulk fail.
    We HAVE seen ghost rider fail. You think Ghost Rider has never shown limits? and that he wins every fight he’s ever been in?
    -
    “It’s also moot for this match as Blaze can kill a Necron Lord without effort…”
    -
    Yep.

  77. wingedlion July 26, 2014 at 10:42 pm -      #77

    ‘Power scaling works in a completely different way in the demon realms, just saying.”
    -
    how so exactly?
    -
    “Dr. Strange fights off universal threats ALL the time in other realms, but in the mainstream universe he’s shown to do nothing but use prep time along with Ironman and reed for some Hax stuff.
    Remember when the celestial was destroying earth? Dr. Strange couldn’t do shit but pray to Thor.”
    -
    now all these events that your talking about… is this all strange while he is depowered?
    because that’s a vast diffrence.
    for all intents and purposes though, if that was full power strange( which i kind of doubt) than that would simply be PIS considering that dr strange honestly surpasses any superhero or villain on marvel earth.
    -
    “Wait wait wait…
    So you’re actually saying Ghost Rider has no limits? And that his power does in fact have “no bounds” ?
    With that logic Ghost Rider should instantly win every match he ever has.
    It’s EXACTLY how beyonder said Hulk has no limits, yet we clearly see the hulk fail.
    We HAVE seen ghost rider fail. You think Ghost Rider has never shown limits? and that he wins every fight he’s ever been in?”
    -
    the problem with what your saying is the fact that ghost rider is always being held back by johnny blaze. as strange said, so long as the human host is limited ghost rider will never be able to show his true power until the spirit of vegeance takes control. so ghost rider struggling and losing some of his fights makes complete sense, because nearly everytime ghost rider show up its johnny blaze that’s in control, not the SOV.

  78. Jake_Uzumaki July 26, 2014 at 11:27 pm -      #78

    The whole Exitar thing is more because it’s part of a “Thor arc” in Uncanny Avengers, and the timeline for all of this is really wonky between the different titles.

  79. Ragnorke July 26, 2014 at 11:59 pm -      #79

    “how so exactly?”
    “is this all strange while he is depowered?
    because that’s a vast diffrence.
    for all intents and purposes though, if that was full power strange( which i kind of doubt) than that would simply be PIS considering that dr strange honestly surpasses any superhero or villain on marvel earth.”
    “The whole Exitar thing is more because it’s part of a “Thor arc” in Uncanny Avengers, and the timeline for all of this is really wonky between the different titles.”
    -
    ALL of Strange (and ghost riders) most impressive feats happen in different realms.
    Yet every time we see them in the mainstream universe, they’re subpar and honestly they can’t compete with any of the flying bricks.
    -
    One of Stranges only powerful feats in the mainstream realm, was when he fought the In-betweener… and guess what? he was being powered up with Lord Chaos and Master Order at the time.
    -
    All of the Thanos battles, all of the Galactus battles, the Pheonix battles, the Void battles, the Celestial battle…
    Every single time. Strange and GR are meh to say the least.
    Strange uses his intelligence and hax along with prep-time to muster up some interesting things every now and then, but that’s no better thn Stark or Reed.
    -
    Either they’re are not at their full power in the mainstream universe, or they get buffed up in the demon realms.
    Every single one of their showings supports that.
    -
    “the problem with what your saying is the fact that ghost rider is always being held back by johnny blaze. ”
    -
    The same can be said about the Hulk.
    But we still use his “held back” version for the matches, because we don’t have any all-out feats.
    Why wouldn’t the same apply to GR?

  80. Ragnorke July 27, 2014 at 12:04 am -      #80

    What we do know, is that Held-back Hulk has better feats compared to Held-back GR. And we’ve seen Held-back Hulk kick Held-back GRs ass.
    Strange says GR has no bounds to his power. Preretcon (omnipotent) Beyonder says Hulk has no limits to his power.
    So why are you comparing an all-out GR (which we have no feats for) to a Held back Hulk?
    -
    If the: “he has limitless power!” claim is all you need to win a match, Hulk & GR should win every match.
    You insist on using it for GR, but are dismissing the very same argument for Hulk.

  81. Darth Bombad July 27, 2014 at 12:27 am -      #81

    Maybe we should just give Ghost Rider a high tier match.
    Cause at this point Necron Lord got stomped 50 or so comments ago.
    -
    And this has pretty much turned into a Hulk Vs. GR debate.
    -
    Or how about a all Ghost Rider Battle Royal!?!.

  82. wingedlion July 27, 2014 at 12:32 am -      #82

    “ALL of Strange (and ghost riders) most impressive feats happen in different realms.
    Yet every time we see them in the mainstream universe, they’re subpar and honestly they can’t compete with any of the flying bricks.”
    -
    since when did strange’s most impressive feats happening in other dimensions mean anything? if your trying to insinuate that strange is only that powerful when he’s in other realms, your going to have to prove that. as i said before, strange being shown inferior to any hero or villian from marvel earth is just straight up PIS. you still also haven’t even clarified if any of the moment your talking about are of him in his depowered state or not.
    -
    “One of Stranges only powerful feats in the mainstream realm, was when he fought the In-betweener… and guess what? he was being powered up with Lord Chaos and Master Order at the time.”
    -
    you say this as if there are people on marvel earth that can take the in betweener. whats your actual point here?
    -
    “All of the Thanos battles, all of the Galactus battles, the Pheonix battles, the Void battles, the Celestial battle…
    Every single time. Strange and GR are meh to say the least.”
    -
    once again, you say this as if there are people on marvel earth that can take care of these guys. all the people you just mentioned can wipe the floor with anyone in marvel earth. what exactly is your point here?
    -
    “Strange uses his intelligence and hax along with prep-time to muster up some interesting things every now and then, but that’s no better thn Stark or Reed.”
    -
    which is once again just PIS. because honestly, strange is far above ironman and mr fantastic and does not need prep to absolutley annihilate enemies that they struggle with.
    -
    “Either they’re are not at their full power in the mainstream universe, or they get buffed up in the demon realms.”
    -
    except only demons get a boost from their dimensions. that’s kind of a consistent thing in marvel. there has been no mention of dr strange being stronger in other dimensions than he is in the mainstream universe. hell, anytime dr strange gets a boost in power is stated as such, like when he absorbed some of shuma’s power. so no, strange isn’t stronger in other dimensions than he is in the main universe. all these events that your bringing up would just be PIS and even then some of these specfic opponents are people that would have no problems with people like ironman. not to mention you still haven’t clarified if these events are with depowered strange. so this observation is completley unfounded.
    -
    “The same can be said about the Hulk.”
    -
    it really can’t though. nothing has ever stated to be holding back the hulk. the whole deal with the hulk is that the angrier he gets the stronger he gets. it has never been stated that he holds back. meanwhile not only has this been stated with ghost rider, but we almost never see the spirit of vegance so nothing at all contradicts this.
    -
    edit:If the: ““he has limitless power!” claim is all you need to win a match, Hulk & GR should win every match.”
    -
    except ghost rider does not have that instantly, because ghost rider isn’t always unchained. and hulks infinite strenth is pretty easy to deal with, since all you need to do is take him out before he grows more powerful than you.

  83. Jake_Uzumaki July 27, 2014 at 1:02 am -      #83

    Strange has stolen power from beings as strong if not stronger than Order and Chaos, sometimes while fighting them. He stole power from a large chunk of the Multiverse to defeat Shuma Gorath the first time they fought even.

  84. Ragnorke July 27, 2014 at 1:18 am -      #84

    ” as i said before, strange being shown inferior to any hero or villian from marvel earth is just straight up PIS. you still also haven’t even clarified if any of the moment your talking about are of him in his depowered state or not.”
    -
    If 99% of a characters showings with other characters, show him being “meh” compared to them, it is not PIS.
    And he’s the SS… so i’m not sure what you mean by depowered. It’s his normal state.
    -
    “you say this as if there are people on marvel earth that can take the in betweener. whats your actual point here?”
    -
    Did you ignore the second part? He was given power from Master Order & Lord Chaos.
    All of Stranges regular showings in mainstream universe are meh.
    -
    “once again, you say this as if there are people on marvel earth that can take care of these guys. all the people you just mentioned can wipe the floor with anyone in marvel earth. what exactly is your point here?”
    -
    *sigh*
    Dr Strange takes on universal threats in demon dimensions.
    Dr Strange is useless against EVERY planetary threat in mainstream universe. (so you can’t call it PIS.)
    So, either he’s stronger in demon universes, or his more impressive feats are PIS.
    -
    “which is once again just PIS. because honestly, strange is far above ironman and mr fantastic and does not need prep to absolutley annihilate enemies that they struggle with”
    -
    But he’s just as useless as them when the planet busters attack earth.
    It isn’t PIS if it’s the same scenario every single time.
    -
    ” there has been no mention of dr strange being stronger in other dimensions than he is in the mainstream universe.”
    -
    He fights universal threats in the demon-verse.
    He gets his ass kicked by Planet busters in the regular verse.
    These are not PIS, because it’s the same scenario, every single time.
    Strange is useless EVERY TIME someone like Thanos pops up, yet in the demonverse he fights people that can destroy the multiverse and etc…
    If you can’t put 2 and 2 together, i don’t know what else to say.
    -
    ” He stole power from a large chunk of the Multiverse to defeat Shuma Gorath the first time they fought even.”
    -
    And Blue Marvel flew through Shuma Goraths head and killed him like he was nothing.
    -
    If Strange is infact capable of going toe to toe with universal busters (as he is shown in other realms), he wouldn’t be so useless 99% of the time earth gets threatened.
    You can’t call something that consistently happens PIS.

  85. Jake_Uzumaki July 27, 2014 at 2:06 am -      #85

    No Blue Marvel flew through the equivalent of Shuma Goraths finger nail. They said that seconds after he did it.
    -
    Strange doesn’t solo everyone because if he did it would make every hero a moot point. In case you forgot….COMIC BOOKS LIKE TO TELL A FUCKING INTERESTING STORY.
    One guy soloing every damn villain is boring. It’s why people hated Pre Crisis Superman with a passion.

  86. wingedlion July 27, 2014 at 2:07 am -      #86

    @ragnorke
    “If 99% of a characters showings with other characters, show him being “meh” compared to them, it is not PIS.
    And he’s the SS… so i’m not sure what you mean by depowered. It’s his normal state.”
    -
    there was a point in time were dr strange was depowered and no longer sorcerer supreme. that’s what i’m talking about. which is actually why i’m asking you what state dr strange was in. also, prove that this happens 99% of the time.
    -
    “Did you ignore the second part? He was given power from Master Order & Lord Chaos.”
    -
    and? i know strange had help against him. is that supposed to mean something? what does this contradict?
    -
    Dr Strange takes on universal threats in demon dimensions.
    Dr Strange is useless against EVERY planetary threat in mainstream universe. (so you can’t call it PIS.)
    So, either he’s stronger in demon universes, or his more impressive feats are PIS.
    -
    none of those people you mentioned are plantery threats though. besides void, there all universal threats. so that’s not proof of anything. furthermore, prove that there are more instances of dr strange being useless than there are of him committing impressive feats. otherwise his weaker feats would be PIS. and i’m pretty sure that there are more instances of him beating cosmics than being considered the same tier as the people of marvel earth
    -
    “But he’s just as useless as them when the planet busters attack earth.
    It isn’t PIS if it’s the same scenario every single time.”
    -
    you have yet to prove it is the same scenario everytime. hell, you haven’t even metioned any of the planetary level beings that he has struggled with. the enemies that you have mentioned so far are high level cosmics.
    -
    He fights universal threats in the demon-verse.
    He gets his ass kicked by Planet busters in the regular verse.
    These are not PIS, because it’s the same scenario, every single time.
    -
    then prove it.
    the only planetary threats you have mentioned so far is sentry and thanos, and not only am i pretty sure that there are more instances of him taking on cosmics than fighting thanos, but i’m pretty sure he’s never faced sentry before(although if i’m wrong please show me this instance). so prove this happens more than him taking on high cosmic beings.
    suggesting someone has a diffrent powerlevel in one dimension than he does in the other requires more than just observation. it require hardcore proof(an concrete statement or something), something which you have yet to provide.
    -
    anyways, this may probably be the last time i’ll be posting for a while, since i’m going away for the week. depending on how much time i have left, i might resume this tommorow or next sunday.

  87. Jake_Uzumaki July 27, 2014 at 2:18 am -      #87

    or did you mean the physical body that was mostly empty while a freaking Tiger god was attacking him? Where Spectrum just managed to destroy the shell by being amped by Adam?
    So it took two high tier heroes and a god to do Stranges job against a not fully in our universe Shuma Gorath.

  88. Ranger Lowk July 27, 2014 at 3:08 am -      #88

    “furthermore, prove that there are more instances of dr strange being useless than there are of him committing impressive feats.”
    -
    Well there is the matter of the recent plot revolving him, the Illuminati, and crashing earths were he’s just as useless as everyone else. Iirc it’s also the point where he sold his soul to reach power that would allow him to move worlds
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111139625/3622492-new%20avengers%20v3%20014-011.jpg
    Which would indicate that he personally did not have that power before hand.

  89. Darth Bombad July 27, 2014 at 4:47 am -      #89

    Not responding to anything in particular just throwing this out there.
    Ghost Rider can apparently change his size.
    -
    img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140502231418/marveldatabase/images/2/22/Johnathon_Blaze_%28Earth-616%29_from_Uncanny_Avengers_Annual_-1_Grows.png
    -
    Love the “Oh shit” moment from Thor.

  90. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 27, 2014 at 5:49 am -      #90

    “it has never been stated that he holds back.”
    -
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/102593/2072034-incredible_hulks_634_009___hulk_holds_back.jpg So, yea, Hulk’s been holding back all these years. Cho also confirms this with a lot of the crap he says during WWH. Just an example static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/118689/2740848-wwhstrikingpower13whentitanscollide1.jpg Which, is pretty scary considering some of the stuff that he’s done over the years.
    =
    “he has limitless power!” claim is all you need to win a match, Hulk & GR should win every match.”
    -
    Nah, just be able to BFR or incapacitate Hulk, that’ll do it. Neither of which are that hard to do.
    =
    “since all you need to do is take him out before he grows more powerful than you.”
    -
    Hulk’s never been a “powerful” character. Just a really strong one.

  91. Ragnorke July 27, 2014 at 2:25 pm -      #91

    @Jake
    “Strange doesn’t solo everyone because if he did it would make every hero a moot point. In case you forgot….COMIC BOOKS LIKE TO TELL A FUCKING INTERESTING STORY.
    One guy soloing every damn villain is boring. It’s why people hated Pre Crisis Superman with a passion.”
    -
    Silly argument.
    Strange is no where NEAR “soloing everyone” level.
    Superman consistently showed how powerful he was, and was quite literally unstoppable.
    Strange is shown to be useless time and time again, and is often unable to help the higher tier bricks.
    -
    “none of those people you mentioned are plantery threats though. besides void, there all universal threats.”
    -
    Standard Thanos is a universal threat? lol
    And since when is a single Celestial a universal threat? Strange just had to watch like a bitch and wait for Thor to kill it.
    -
    ” prove that there are more instances of dr strange being useless than there are of him committing impressive feats. otherwise his weaker feats would be PIS”
    -
    It would be the other way around. Burden on proof would be on you.
    I’v already provided examples of him being useless, no impressive feats have been provided though.
    -
    “the only planetary threats you have mentioned so far is sentry and thanos, and not only am i pretty sure that there are more instances of him taking on cosmics than fighting thanos, but i’m pretty sure he’s never faced sentry before(although if i’m wrong please show me this instance).”
    -
    1. There’s more than just Thanos & Sentry, those two are just the REOCCURRING ones.
    Forexample, why didn’t he stop WWH?
    2. He was with the avengers during 2 of the 4/5 Void breakouts. And they were all losing.
    -
    “suggesting someone has a diffrent powerlevel in one dimension than he does in the other requires more than just observation”
    -
    Observation is ALL it requires.
    We see him do batshit crazy feats in demon universes, and he’s literally USELESS compared to Avengers flying bricks in mainstream earth.
    PIS can be applied to a couple of scenarios, but not every single time he’s in mainstream earth.
    -
    “Which would indicate that he personally did not have that power before hand.”
    -
    Thank you, my good friend Lowk.
    Strange has some great feats, but his regular showings are meh.
    Can you call a characters regular showings PIS? No, no you cannot.
    -
    “Love the “Oh shit” moment from Thor.”
    -
    img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/AuntPetunia/Fantastic%20Four/Comic%20Scans/ThorGhostRider5.png
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/73849/1669115-thor_hellfire.jpg
    Thor was completely unaffected by hellfire, and caps shield blocked it too.
    -
    “Nah, just be able to BFR or incapacitate Hulk, that’ll do it. Neither of which are that hard to do.”
    -
    The only way of dealing with someone who has “infinite strength” is non-physical means.

  92. Ranger Lowk July 27, 2014 at 2:39 pm -      #92

    “Thor was completely unaffected by hellfire, and caps shield blocked it too.”
    -
    Thor got floored in a more recent issue
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/89577/3936020-2245831504-Hu9G..jpg
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/89577/3936021-3073447408-Hu9K..jpg

  93. Ragnorke July 27, 2014 at 2:57 pm -      #93

    “Thor got floored in a more recent issue”
    -
    *sigh* Thor and his midgard syndrome.
    I guess he truly doesn’t have a defense against the penance stare. However, that shouldn’t stop him from flying into space and creating a storm of a thousand worlds.
    So yea, Midgard syndrome holding him back.
    -
    Also, didn’t GR faint when he used the penance stare on carnage? What exactly are the rules behind it?

  94. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 27, 2014 at 4:07 pm -      #94

    “Strange just had to watch like a bitch and wait for Thor to kill it.”
    -
    The only thing that’s been bugging me about that is that they make it out to seem as if no one else could’ve killed the Celestial, when pretty much anyone on Earth with Thor’s level of strength could’ve done it(Hyperion, Sentry, Hulk, Captain Marvel if she goes Binary, Herc, and probably Blue Marvel). Uriel did it and he doesn’t have anything to suggest he’s anything special in terms of strength.
    -
    Also, what the heck was in that space ship that fried Thor’s arm? I mean, somehow Uriel was able to survive spill the Celestial’s guts and then gets fried by that ships core, but somehow Thor gets Celestial guts on him and he dies, but the ship didn’t kill him?
    =
    “Forexample, why didn’t he stop WWH?”
    -
    He didn’t want to BFR him like they did before and was looking for a more peaceful method of doing it. It went south and he had to get Zom since Hulk crushed his hands.
    =
    “The only way of dealing with someone who has “infinite strength” is non-physical means”
    -
    Infinite strength doesn’t automatically mean infinite durability. Just be faster and hope he isn’t too tough.
    =
    @Lowk Holy crap, Ghost Rider seems like a badass.

  95. Ranger Lowk July 27, 2014 at 4:30 pm -      #95

    “Ghost Rider seems like a badass.”
    -
    Only when he mad, crazed, or letting the spirit of vengeance out. Other then that, kind of a buzzkill
    i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/infamousColeMacgrath/Hu9S_zps340b7fd8.jpg

  96. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets July 27, 2014 at 4:41 pm -      #96

    @Lowk Is that in from Uncanny Avengers? If so, is it new? Seems like the team+Doc Strange and Ghost Rider.

  97. Ragnorke July 27, 2014 at 4:48 pm -      #97

    “The only thing that’s been bugging me about that is that they make it out to seem as if no one else could’ve killed the Celestial, when pretty much anyone on Earth with Thor’s level of strength could’ve done it”
    -
    Blue Marvel literally just disappears for 99% of the story arcs. He just randomly shows up, does something cool, and disappears again.
    What bothers me so much is that HE’S ON EARTH the entire time!
    Sentry is dead.
    Hyperion wouldn’t stand a chance against an all out Thor. (Neither would Blue Marvel for that matter)
    Hulk can’t fly.
    Thor only truly goes “all out” when all of Earth or Asgard’s on the line, and you can tell by his speech and facial expressions. I get shivers down my spine every time Thor says he’s going to kill someone.
    -
    “Uriel did it and he doesn’t have anything to suggest he’s anything special in terms of strength.”
    -
    You’re sorta downplaying Uriel here… He was going toe to toe with Thor for almost their entire fight.
    -
    “Infinite strength doesn’t automatically mean infinite durability. Just be faster and hope he isn’t too tough.”
    -
    Infinite strength DOES mean infinite durability.
    By definition, If someone is able to break anything without breaking himself, he cannot be broken by anything either.
    Durability & Strength are synonyms of each other. Look it up.

  98. OberHerr July 27, 2014 at 5:15 pm -      #98

    @Rag
    GR’s Penance Stare only makes him faint when he tried to use it on Venom, or more specifically, the symbiote.
    -
    And being taken down by the PS is nothing to scoff at. It makes you feel all the pain you’ve caused anyone ever, so it should definitely mess up most low-mid tier comic characters.

  99. Ragnorke July 27, 2014 at 5:21 pm -      #99

    Speaking of Thor,
    Old King Thor is currently the most powerful character in Marvel. Excluding the unkillable cosmic entities.

  100. OberHerr July 27, 2014 at 5:46 pm -      #100

    Twas’ the beard.
    -
    That’s my theory with Asgardians. As their facial hair increases, so does there power. Much like in real life.

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