Tadugane Warship Vs Imperial II Destroyer

Tadugane Warship Vs Imperial II Destroyer

Suggested by Rookie

Here we have a Tadugane-class warship (Knights of Sidonia) going up against an Imperial II-class Destroyer (Star Wars).

Only ships battle. No support units.

Two warships. Which one will stay safe in the end?

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92 Comments on "Tadugane Warship Vs Imperial II Destroyer"

  1. God Of Godzilla July 2, 2014 at 7:33 am -      #1

    Here are the stats I found out about the Mizuki, a Tadugane class warship
    Length: 723 Meter
    Crew Capacity: 1000
    Guardian Capacity: 24
    Weaponry
    High-Output Higgs Particle Cannon
    2x 120cm Mass Driver Cannon
    4x 440mm Mass Driver Cannon
    16x 120cm Smoothbore Cannon
    12x 20mm Machine Guns
    Anti-Gauna Guided Missile
    sidonia-no-kishi.wikia.com/wiki/Mizuki

    Right now I’m leaning towards the star destroyer unless the Tadugane warships have shields and high yield weaponry

  2. Sauroposeidon July 2, 2014 at 7:35 am -      #2

    “Only ships battle. No support units.”

    Having two carriers fight with out the ability to fulfill their role as carriers is kind of well… boring.

    Neutered matches are not as interesting as scenarios questioning how an actual meeting between the two vessels would play out, in my opinion.

  3. Xander Xtreme July 2, 2014 at 7:41 am -      #3

    Wow. So no Tie Fighters and stuff? That’s like a queen bee with no worker bees.

  4. Tancalebner July 2, 2014 at 7:54 am -      #4

    “Name: Imperial I-class Star Destroyer
    Number: 25,000
    Length: 1.6Km
    Shield sustainability: (Unknown) Can sustain dozens (Hundreds on full shield power) of Heavy Turbolaser rounds, each in the yield of hundreds of gigatons.
    Armament: Twelve dual heavy turbolaser turrets, two dual heavy ion cannon turrets and twenty four medium Turbolasers.
    FTL propulsion: 7000 Light years per hour.
    Maximum range: 17 987 547 Km per light minute (Heavy Turbolaser).
    Yield of most powerful weapon: Heavy Turbolaser at 22-200 gigatons (Interchangeable).”

    L-W said that on comment #473 in the Star Wars VS Halo fight…

  5. Tancalebner July 2, 2014 at 7:57 am -      #5

    I honestly know nothing about the Knights of Sidonia, but I think the Warship has no chance…

  6. Sauroposeidon July 2, 2014 at 7:59 am -      #6

    I don’t know how much of L-W’s stuff I would trust, Tancalebner.

  7. God Of Godzilla July 2, 2014 at 8:01 am -      #7

    But wouldn’t 70+ tie fighters be too much for 20 guardians?
    sidonia-no-kishi.wikia.com/wiki/Guardian

  8. Tancalebner July 2, 2014 at 8:06 am -      #8

    @Sauroposeidon
    Oh shut up, I don’t care what you think in regards to L-W he was an excellent debater…
    =
    @God of Godzilla

    Do you have any stats on the yield of those cannons???

  9. Sauroposeidon July 2, 2014 at 8:20 am -      #9

    “Oh shut up, I don’t care what you think in regards to L-W he was an excellent debater…”

    Look up Boba Fett vs Predator.

    Dude says plasma is an out dated and useless weapon which would do nothing.

    Light Sabers use plasma.

    L-W didn’t know what he was talking about back in the day even on subjects he thought he was an expert on such as Star Wars, was eventually discredited, and then abandoned the site afterwards. He was not an excellent debater.

    “But wouldn’t 70+ tie fighters be too much for 20 guardians?”

    Maybe. I don’t read Sidonia. But the ships are DESIGNED to use these vehicles. They are extensions of the ship’s battle strength and the Captain’s will. Important battle strategies include the use of their support craft because their role has always been that of a carrier. Both sides should be permitted their craft. If the guardians can’t compete and get steam rolled by sheer numbers then boo-hoo. The Tadugane-class will have to figure out something else or be sunk by the TIE Bombers.

  10. Tancalebner July 2, 2014 at 9:21 am -      #10

    “Both sides should be permitted their craft.”

    However there are no support craft… We are dealing with only the Cruisers, so we need to work with that… Perhaps after we decide a winner then we can toy with the idea of support craft as a side debate but for now we are not…
    =
    “Dude says plasma is an out dated and useless weapon which would do nothing.”

    Comment #1 of that thread:
    “Well, optical camouflage would be useless in this fight thanks to Boba’s helmet, as would the majority of his opponents plasma based weapons.”

    Is that what you were referring too? If so, I believe L-W was referring to Predator’s plasma weapons being near useless due to Boba Fett’s Mandalorian Iron armor being so durable…

    If that is not what you were referring to or that is not how you interpreted that please clarify…

  11. mack006 July 2, 2014 at 9:29 am -      #11

    Going with star destroyer

    sci fi >>> anime or manga

  12. Sauroposeidon July 2, 2014 at 9:46 am -      #12

    “Is that what you were referring too? If so, I believe L-W was referring to Predator’s plasma weapons being near useless due to Boba Fett’s Mandalorian Iron armor being so durable…”

    Read further, when he goes on about how particle beams are what they use and plasma is considered out dated. It’s further down on page 1 if I recall.

    Yeah it is, went and checked. Post 39.

    “2) Compared to primitive Predator Plasma, their particle beam based weapons are nigh unstoppable. In the Star Wars universe plasma is seen as an archaic excuse for real Blasters, which would most likely turn the exposed Predator to charcoal briquettes with a single shot. I wouldn’t be surprised either if those plasma spitting Shoulder Cannons were nigh useless against his armour.”

    Funny. The Vong didn’t think that at all while they were plasma raping everything the good guys threw at them. L-W just makes shit up as he goes along.

    The fact that he makes a point about blasters being stronger, which they aren’t, it also pretty bad.

    “sci fi >>> anime or manga”

    That is a terrible argument. Especially since anime and manga CAN be sci-fi.

  13. God Of Godzilla July 2, 2014 at 10:20 am -      #13

    @Tancalebner
    Unfortunately I have no yields on the Higgs particle cannon but if a Tadugane warship uses things like cannons, machine guns and mass driver cannons then as weapons then I see no way it can win though I am interested on what the empire will think of the Kabizashi/Artificial Zabi
    sidonia-no-kishi.wikia.com/wiki/Kabizashi

  14. Tancalebner July 2, 2014 at 10:38 am -      #14

    @Sauro

    I kinda understand what your getting at but I still believe he was a good debater…
    =
    {{[[!!## To everyone seeing this post, I have one thing to say (I hope I’m not stepping on your toes Admin)… Please suggest duels or battle suggestions that are at least able to be argued or can at least last a couple hundred posts of back and forth feats… In summary: Two competitors that have something to bring to the table at the other competitor… Something we can argue over, not just an immediate stomp match… Please take this to heart ##!!]]}}
    =
    @God of Godzilla

    Machine Guns??? Really, against an Imperial II Class Star Destroyer?

  15. God Of Godzilla July 2, 2014 at 10:53 am -      #15

    Whelp the Tadugane warship isn’t gonna in anyway damage the star destroyer’s durasteel hull or it’s shielding, it’s most powerful weapon is one particle cannon with no yields but IF and a VERY BIG IF that the Higgs particle cannon can match a single shot of a turbolaser then it’s fucked
    Rfolstomp award to the Star Destroyer

  16. batman3.14 July 2, 2014 at 11:06 am -      #16

    I don’t really know Knights of Sidonia (at all), but the armament of the imperial II star destroyer is:

    Octuple barbette turbolaser or Ion cannons (8)[
    Heavy turbolaser batteries (50)
    Turbolaser batteries (50)
    Additional turbolaser batteries (26+)
    Heavy ion cannons (20)
    Phylon Q7 tractor beam projectors (10)

    Also, the star destroyer is more than half times longer, and tadugane’s armament is already posted above by God of Godzilla. The SD wins the battle.

    Source: Wookiepedia

  17. Sauroposeidon July 2, 2014 at 11:06 am -      #17

    “Unfortunately I have no yields on the Higgs particle cannon but if a Tadugane warship uses things like cannons, machine guns and mass driver cannons then as weapons then I see no way it can win though I am interested on what the empire will think of the Kabizashi/Artificial Zabi”

    What’s with this sudden hate against mass drivers?

  18. Rookie July 2, 2014 at 11:06 am -      #18

    @Sauroposeidon

    “Having two carriers fight with out the ability to fulfill their role as carriers is kind of well… boring.

    Neutered matches are not as interesting as scenarios questioning how an actual meeting between the two vessels would play out, in my opinion.”

    Fair point. Then let’s make two scenarios. 1) No support units
    2) Everything goes. (except for Tsumugi and Nagate. They are not part of the Mizuki, only standart Guardians allowed)

    I’l post feats for Guardians later, right now about Tadugane:
    img.batoto.net/comics/2014/05/31/s/read538a1364dba6e/img000028.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2014/05/31/s/read538a1364dba6e/img000029.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2014/05/31/s/read538a1364dba6e/img000030.png

  19. Rookie July 2, 2014 at 11:09 am -      #19

    AA and reverse thrust maneuver (AA accuracy drops significantly during reverse thrust):

    img.batoto.net/comics/2014/06/16/s/read539f79b062e9b/img000018.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2014/06/16/s/read539f79b062e9b/img000019.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2014/06/16/s/read539f79b062e9b/img000021.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2014/06/16/s/read539f79b062e9b/img000023.png

  20. Sauroposeidon July 2, 2014 at 11:13 am -      #20

    “Also, the star destroyer is more than half times longer, and tadugane’s armament is already posted above by God of Godzilla. The SD wins the battle.”

    When we know literally zero about its offensive power , it’s not a good idea to make sudden claims of victory. We should wait until discussion can be held and some proper feats are shown.

  21. God Of Godzilla July 2, 2014 at 11:16 am -      #21

    @Sauroposeidon
    Nothing wrong with the mass driver cannons but compared to Star Wars that rarely uses slug throwers, it ain’t gonna do a thing

    I wonder what if we used the Gauna instead

  22. batman3.14 July 2, 2014 at 11:18 am -      #22

    Here is the complement of the star destroyer:

    TIE series starfighters (72)
    Lambda-class shuttles (8)
    Delta-class stormtrooper transports (15)
    Assault gunboats (5)
    A variable number of GAT-12 Skipray Blastboats
    Gamma-class assault shuttle (1+)
    Repair and recovery vehicles
    AT-AT barges
    AT-AT walkers (20)
    AT-ST walkers (30)
    Various ground vehicles
    Prefabricated garrison bases

    If you get rid of all the ones useless in space battle, the list goes down to:

    TIE series starfighters (72)
    Assault gunboats (5)
    A variable number of GAT-12 Skipray Blastboats
    Gamma-class assault shuttle (1+)

    The guardians are going to have to be pretty powerful to stand a chance.

  23. Rookie July 2, 2014 at 11:22 am -      #23

    @God Of Godzilla

    “but IF and a VERY BIG IF that the Higgs particle cannon can match a single shot of a turbolaser then it’s fucked”

    Tadugane was develop to fight against Gaunas main ships. And so far it prove it’s worth. And some Gaunas have crazy durability:
    img.batoto.net/comics/2012/03/07/s/read4f571d945051c/img000023.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2012/03/07/s/read4f571d945051c/img000025.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2012/03/07/s/read4f571d945051c/img000026.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2012/03/07/s/read4f571d945051c/img000027.png
    While Tadugane do not carry anything like this, the fact that it’s ship is capable to take Gauna on is a good fact by itself.

    @God Of Godzilla

    “I wonder what if we used the Gauna instead”

    Gaunas will rolfstomp all Star Wars. Rapid evolution+crazy durability+the fact that Star Wars have nothing to take them down.
    And Gaunas are about to develop GBE.

  24. Sauroposeidon July 2, 2014 at 11:26 am -      #24

    “The guardians are going to have to be pretty powerful to stand a chance.”

    Or just fairly agile, due to the atmosphere-like flight behavior of star wars ships.

    What matters is if they have enough ammunition to stop any ship that’s a threat to the mothership, or if they have any anti-ship weaponry equipped guardians.

    :Nothing wrong with the mass driver cannons but compared to Star Wars that rarely uses slug throwers, it ain’t gonna do a thing:

    Slug weaponry isn’t weak in Star Wars. The problem is the higher recoil and ammunition concerns. Blasters have like 1/10th the kick for their fire power and literally several times more ammunition for magazine size. Logistically, the Blaster is all around the better weapon for deploying troops with, despite its bolt velocity.

  25. Rookie July 2, 2014 at 11:31 am -      #25

    Mass driver cannon (Tadugane mass driver cannon is just as strong as the one that Sidonia used, although Tadugane cannon is smaller in size):

    img.batoto.net/comics/2012/03/07/s/read4f57293dce111/img000013.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2012/03/07/s/read4f57293dce111/img000030.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2012/03/07/s/read4f57293dce111/img000031.png

  26. Rookie July 2, 2014 at 11:42 am -      #26

    @Sauroposeidon

    ” or if they have any anti-ship weaponry equipped guardians.”

    They have:
    img.batoto.net/comics/2012/06/25/s/read4fe7e355b822b/img000014.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2012/06/25/s/read4fe7e355b822b/img000020.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2012/06/25/s/read4fe7e355b822b/img000021.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2012/06/25/s/read4fe7e355b822b/img000024.png

  27. Tancalebner July 2, 2014 at 11:51 am -      #27

    How many guardians does the ship have again???

  28. batman3.14 July 2, 2014 at 11:52 am -      #28

    @Tancalebner

    24

  29. Rookie July 2, 2014 at 11:54 am -      #29

    @Tancalebner

    “How many guardians does the ship have again???”

    sidonia-no-kishi.wikia.com/wiki/Mizuki
    24.

  30. Tancalebner July 2, 2014 at 12:06 pm -      #30

    So how do they even compete with the wave of Tie fighters, blast boats, and such coming at them along with a massive Star Destroyer cleaning up any that get by? I mean 24 is not a lot and considering the under powered carrier behind them…

  31. batman3.14 July 2, 2014 at 12:18 pm -      #31

    I agree with Tancalebner. 24 is not enough to change the battle. They will be shot out and shot down. Even if their power level is above a tie fighter’s, they will be swarmed. It would be exactly 3 tie fighters for one guardian. Tie fighters are pretty fast-firing, while guardians do not seem to be fast-firing. Even if one or two guardians get past the ties, the turbolasers will send them down (or up;you’re in space!) in smoke.

  32. God Of Godzilla July 2, 2014 at 12:22 pm -      #32

    By the power of anime! But seriously but how would the guardians fare against the tie-fighters in terms of weapons speed and armour

  33. batman3.14 July 2, 2014 at 12:25 pm -      #33

    @Tancalebner

    This is really off topic, but did you know that both of us made our first comment on BankGambling on the same day, two hours apart?

  34. Rookie July 2, 2014 at 12:40 pm -      #34

    @batman3.14

    Mark 18 Guardians have 88 mach speed.
    Tadugane carry new, mark 19 Guardians who are faster and more durable, but we don’t have any actual numbers for them.
    As for durability of the new models:
    img.batoto.net/comics/2014/06/08/s/read5393fdb2f3c43/img000018.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2014/06/08/s/read5393fdb2f3c43/img000019.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2014/06/08/s/read5393fdb2f3c43/img000020.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2014/06/08/s/read5393fdb2f3c43/img000021.png

  35. Tancalebner July 2, 2014 at 12:40 pm -      #35

    @Batman3.14

    Lolol stalk much JK… No I didn’t that’s pretty cool lol 😀

  36. Tancalebner July 2, 2014 at 12:55 pm -      #36

    On another not… Did anyone know that the giant panels on the sides of the TIE fighters were actually solar panels! I didn’t know that :)

  37. Sauroposeidon July 2, 2014 at 12:58 pm -      #37

    ” Even if their power level is above a tie fighter’s, they will be swarmed. It would be exactly 3 tie fighters for one guardian.”

    Don’t the rebels tend to spank imperial TIE’s under those numbers? Assuming that none of the imperial support craft are of the anti-ship variety and only fighters and interceptors. At which point their only purpose is to try and screen anti-ship guardians.

    “Even if one or two guardians get past the ties, the turbolasers will send them down”

    Aren’t ship mounted guns usually very bad at shooting down fighters? Even Super Star Destroyers go down to TIE Swarms during their in fighting after Palpatine’s death.

    ” Tie fighters are pretty fast-firing, while guardians do not seem to be fast-firing.”

    This is starting to look like Zakus and Leos firing their machine cannons at gundams, missing or doing no damage… and the gundams one shotting their opponents with slow firing, single shot beam cannons.

    It’s a shame we have no animation of these things to know how agile they are.

  38. Rookie July 2, 2014 at 1:05 pm -      #38

    @Sauroposeidon

    “It’s a shame we have no animation of these things to know how agile they are.”

    Actually we have a KoS anime, but I never watched it, so can’t say anything.
    About how they are moves….
    If you care to read, read 2 chapters to get a basic idea:
    www.batoto.net/read/_/132839/sidonia-no-kishi_v5_ch25_by_illuminati-manga/7
    In the chapter 26 we have mark 19 Guardian vs Benisuzume Gauna battle and I do believe that this might help.

  39. Xornell July 2, 2014 at 1:13 pm -      #39

    I’m assuming EU?

    “Oh shut up, I don’t care what you think in regards to L-W he was an excellent debater…”

    L-W was a Star Wars fanboy and a weenie. Even I can see that.

    “sci fi >>> anime or manga”

    Actually, the reverse of this is very often true.

    “Don’t the rebels tend to spank imperial TIE’s under those numbers?”

    No. Only if they’re fighting a main character. The Rebels tend to get their shit rocked by TIEs.



    Does the animu ship have any shielding? Or anything that’s going to stop it from getting EMP’d from the Star Destroyer’s Ion Cannons?

    PS- Is this Star Wars week or something? This is the third SW match this week.

  40. Rookie July 2, 2014 at 1:18 pm -      #40

    @Xornell

    “I’m assuming EU?”

    Yep.

    “Does the animu ship have any shielding? Or anything that’s going to stop it from getting EMP’d from the Star Destroyer’s Ion Cannons?”

    It doesn’t have shields, but it should have some sort of EMP protection, since Gaunas did used EMP hundreds of years ago before Tadugane was even built.

  41. Aelfinn July 2, 2014 at 1:31 pm -      #41

    Well, the OP opens up the now-defunct EU, which…opens a whole can of worms. Turbolasers range from “barely light forests on fire” to “200 gigatons” which would probably wreck a small country. In the movies, however, there is a scene where a Turbolaser destroys an asteroid. SD.net, a noted pro-Wars debate site (so take it with a grain of salt), calc-ed the turbolaser into the kilotons.

  42. Xornell July 2, 2014 at 1:32 pm -      #42

    “It doesn’t have shields, but it should have some sort of EMP protection, since Gaunas did used EMP hundreds of years ago before Tadugane was even built.”

    This doesn’t necessarily mean the ship has EMP protection. Can you show it resisting EMPs?

    I get the impression the mango ship isn’t as high up on the tech ladder as the Star Destroyer. The people still need to wear helmets on the bridge, and I’m willing to bet there’s no artificial gravity, either. Also, like you said, no shields. Which really help when your ship is being bombarded by space testicles, and in just about every other situation. You could say this is because the series is more grounded in realism, but I’ll say that’s exactly my point. It’s not on the same tech level because the Star Destroyer is doing shit we can’t even comprehend mimicking.

  43. Tancalebner July 2, 2014 at 1:34 pm -      #43

    @Rookie
    “It doesn’t have shields, but it should have some sort of EMP protection, since Gaunas did used EMP hundreds of years ago before Tadugane was even built.”

    It’s not exactly an EMP per say… Remember in the beginning of Episode 5 when they were launching the medium transport when evacuating the hoth base and they fired a cannon (giant booby nipple gun) at the star destroyer, and it basically shut the destroyer down… That’s what an ion cannon is if you didn’t know, and a Star Destroyer has lots of them…
    =
    @Aelfinn
    “calc-ed the turbolaser into the kilotons.”

    Even if that is true, why would a ship use its entire firepower, wasting charge and power, on small asteroids???

  44. Jake_Uzumaki July 2, 2014 at 1:40 pm -      #44

    Question…isn’t the ICS and the rest of the EU now the same level of canon ie Legends canon?
    Because if so the range of levels is much higher with the ICS included.

  45. Rookie July 2, 2014 at 1:45 pm -      #45

    @Xornell

    “I get the impression the mango ship isn’t as high up on the tech ladder as the Star Destroyer.”

    This ship was built to battle against creatures who can survive explosion of the gas planet.

    “and I’m willing to bet there’s no artificial gravity, either.”

    Actually they have it:
    img.batoto.net/comics/2014/05/31/s/read538a1364dba6e/img000019.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2014/05/31/s/read538a1364dba6e/img000018.png

    “The people still need to wear helmets on the bridge”

    Safety protocols. They are fighting against these things:
    img.batoto.net/comics/2012/01/01/s/read4effea2e12e65/img000035.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2012/03/07/s/read4f57293dce111/img000003.png
    And have huge losses almost every time.

    “You could say this is because the series is more grounded in realism”

    They have anti-planet missiles on Sidonia as something normal. Their top ranks officers are immortals. They clone usual crew members if Sidonia runs out of people (once Sidonia lost 99% of it’s population and since then they started to use clones). They created an artificial chimera who can chill out deep in the corona of a blue giant with only moderate discomfort or tank explosions easily visible from orbit. And now they also have GBE and megastructure (from Blame!). They even stated that they have no idea how to destroy megastructure aside from using GBE against it.
    Tadugane of course do not have megastructure armor, but this still pretty high tech ship.

    “Can you show it resisting EMPs?”

    Sadly no, Gauna did not used it against this ship.

  46. Xornell July 2, 2014 at 1:52 pm -      #46

    “Question…isn’t the ICS and the rest of the EU now the same level of canon ie Legends canon?”

    This is a very good question…

    “This ship was built to battle against creatures who can survive explosion of the gas planet.”

    This is very vague. The race of creatures survived? Individual creatures survived? Were they inside the gas planet? Just nearby? Define “explosion”.

    “Actually they have it:”

    Alright then.

    “And have huge losses almost every time.”

    Not very impressive, imo. What’s so special about the Guano?

    “They have anti-planet missiles on Sidonia as something normal. Their top ranks officers are immortals. They clone usual crew members if Sidonia runs out of people (once Sidonia lost 99% of peoples and since then they started to use clones). They created an artificial chimera who can chill out deep in the corona of a blue giant with only moderate discomfort or tank explosions easily visible from orbit. And now they also have GBE and megastructure (from Blame!). They even stated that they have no idea how to destroy megastructure aside from using GBE against it. Tadugame of course do not have megastructure armor, but this still pretty high tech ship.”

    Literally 0 of these feats have anything to do with the ship lol.

    My favorite part of every Rookie-suggested match is the fact that I need to learn all the source material from a universe I’ve never heard of, let alone care about. Luv u, bro

  47. Namer July 2, 2014 at 1:56 pm -      #47

    So, about the scans in #19, how much is a “Kilo Unit”? If one ship massively outranges the other, firepower might not be a big concern.
    .
    And at #34, that kind of durability’s way higher than anything TIE, assuming the Guardian did crash from high orbit to ground (It says “floating island” is that within the Troposphere?).

  48. cuccolover July 2, 2014 at 1:57 pm -      #48

    star destroyer wins.

  49. Jake_Uzumaki July 2, 2014 at 1:59 pm -      #49

    @Xornell
    Well I mean technically it should be allowed now because….it’s not the lowest level of canon, there are two levels of canon Disney and Legends. ICS was always Legends and now all the EU is Legends so they are completely interchangeable terms now. But I’m not sure how we want to take that into new matches involving EU/Legends. It’s something we should probably figure out.

  50. Xornell July 2, 2014 at 2:10 pm -      #50

    “So, about the scans in #19, how much is a “Kilo Unit”? If one ship massively outranges the other, firepower might not be a big concern.”

    The ICS states that a Venator’s turbolasers have a range of 7 light-minutes. Which is a retardedly long range compared to everything we see in every other source of SW media, with the exception of maybe the Battle of Endor, but there you have it.

    “Well I mean technically it should be allowed now because….it’s not the lowest level of canon, there are two levels of canon Disney and Legends. ICS was always Legends and now all the EU is Legends so they are completely interchangeable terms now.”

    This would make everything that was non-canon also canon though, right? I think we should stick to the older EU hierarchy to avoid the problems including non-canon stories into the fold brings.

  51. Rookie July 2, 2014 at 2:11 pm -      #51

    @Xornell

    “This is very vague. The race of creatures survived? Individual creatures survived? Were they inside the gas planet? Just nearby? Define “explosion”.”

    Post 23. Gaunas awaited on the planet to ambush Sidonia. They were all fine after the explosion.

    “Not very impressive, imo. What’s so special about the Guano?”

    In KoS verse they can’t be killed by any weapon except for Kabi (and nobody don’t even know that Kabi really is. On the other hand they know how to built more Kabi. For me this is kinda strange) weapons or (probably) GBE. Second bad part is that these creatures can physically alter their bodies to copy advanced technology after observing it, or copy a person down to their memories after eating them. They can transform themself into almost any weapon, like for example Guardian or ship or rocket, or higgs cannon. They don’t require outside sources of mass in order to create more biomatter, and a tiny human-sized tissue sample cut away from the main gauna was able to give birth to a seperate huge monster in a manner of days or weeks. And the last part? Gaunas have infinite regeneration thanks to their ability to drain energy from the infinite energy source. Frankly they do not have instant regeneration, but still they are tough to deal with. At least for KoS verse.

    “My favorite part of every Rookie-suggested match is the fact that I need to learn all the source material from a universe I’ve never heard of, let alone care about. Luv u, bro –
    Oh, come on, some time it is good to learn more about other verses).

    "Literally 0 of these feats have anything to do with the ship lol."

    I was talking about realism and KoS and got a little carried away to be honest.

  52. Tancalebner July 2, 2014 at 2:11 pm -      #52

    So SD wins or what? What does the Warship have that can compete???

  53. Jake_Uzumaki July 2, 2014 at 2:14 pm -      #53

    @Xornell
    I’m not sure that’s why I think it should be discussed in depth.

  54. Jake_Uzumaki July 2, 2014 at 2:27 pm -      #54

    looked it up, since all the noncanon stuff is listed under the “Legends: Infinities:” labels (a basically a subset of the Legends canon called Infinities) then so long as we avoid this list of sources starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Infinities
    we should be good and avoid any issues.

  55. God Of Godzilla July 2, 2014 at 2:38 pm -      #55

    Wait no shields for the Tadugane Warship?
    So is there anyway it can beat the Star Destroyer

  56. Aelfinn July 2, 2014 at 2:47 pm -      #56

    The thing is, it’s not “Legends” canon, it’s just non-canon, but given the Legends label so they can keep selling it.
    =
    “Even if that is true, why would a ship use its entire firepower, wasting charge and power, on small asteroids?”

    The problem with this line of reasoning is that anyone could claim an absurdly high yield for any franchise, but remain adamant that any lower showings were simply the result of holding back.

  57. cuccolover July 2, 2014 at 3:35 pm -      #57

    would you like rocks hitting your new star destroyer?

  58. God Of Godzilla July 2, 2014 at 3:57 pm -      #58

    would you bother shooting rocks if said rocks are only gonna hit the energy shields of your new star destroyer?

  59. cuccolover July 2, 2014 at 4:00 pm -      #59

    it was stated somewhere in canon that the rocks are big enough to cause physical and shield damage. i cant remember where though.

  60. Sauroposeidon July 2, 2014 at 4:20 pm -      #60

    If I recall that’s the asteroid field they flee in to after Hoth, isn’t it?

    Those rocks also ignite when impacting each other. Which makes getting calcs off blowing them up pretty much a pointless endeavor. Also, it makes them seriously dangerous even to shielded vessels. Their enormous weight and the energy they can release both on impact and as they explode could really cause quite a lot of trouble for a star destroyer.

  61. batman3.14 July 2, 2014 at 4:27 pm -      #61

    We have to remember that the SD contains 72 Ties, not Tie fighters. This means they have tie fighters, tie bombers, etc… Imagine how much damage the bombers would do to the warship… I know whenever I see bombers in empire at war I always groan.

  62. batman3.14 July 2, 2014 at 4:29 pm -      #62

    We have to remember that the SD contains 72 Ties, not Tie fighters. This means they have tie fighters, tie bombers, etc… Imagine how much damage the bombers would do to the warship…

  63. batman3.14 July 2, 2014 at 4:31 pm -      #63

    We have to remember that the SD contains 72 Ties, not Tie fighters. This means they have tie fighters, tie bombers, etc…

  64. batman3.14 July 2, 2014 at 4:32 pm -      #64

    We have to remember that the SD has 72 ties, not tie fighters. It has tie fighters, tie bombers, etc… Imagine how much damage the bombers would do to the warship… I know whenever I see bombers in empire at war I always groan.

  65. batman3.14 July 2, 2014 at 4:33 pm -      #65

    What just happened? Why do I have so many comments? It told me it didn’t work each time… Sorry :(

  66. Rookie July 2, 2014 at 4:40 pm -      #66

    Most recent custom Mark 19 Guardian near corona of a blue giant:
    img.batoto.net/comics/2014/06/16/s/read539f77ee6b5b3/img000029.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2014/06/16/s/read539f782969fe1/img000003.jpg
    P.S.
    We probably should give Tanikaze and Tsumugi match against someone someday.

  67. OberHearse July 2, 2014 at 4:53 pm -      #67

    There are no support units according to the OP.

    And can we just let the damn ICS die already?

    And Tancal, L-W was a goddamn pompous idiot, who thought the idea that Kharn fighting Supes was a close-match, that Hulk could take on the likes of Galactus, and who thought that, like Sauro pointed out, plasma was an outdated weapon for SW. He just acted like he was a good and intelligent debater. He lacked the actual attributes of one.

  68. batman3.14 July 2, 2014 at 5:05 pm -      #68

    @oberhearse

    Look at post 18.

  69. Xornell July 2, 2014 at 6:08 pm -      #69

    “If I recall that’s the asteroid field they flee in to after Hoth, isn’t it?”

    I believe they had their shields lowered so Solo couldn’t detect them. They also had been surviving the asteroids for days before the one blew up that bridge.

    “And can we just let the damn ICS die already?”

    Actually, no we can’t. OP states EU, which is now split into “canon” and “non-canon”, which means the ICS is officially canon as far as the EU goes.

    “What just happened? Why do I have so many comments? It told me it didn’t work each time… Sorry :(”

    Shit happens to everyone once in a while. Just ignore it when it happens.


    Speaking of canon, is anyone here going to start reading the new Disney canon shit they’re coming out with?

  70. Tancalebner July 2, 2014 at 6:12 pm -      #70

    @Oberhearse

    Then I must say he was a great actor…
    =
    The wiki says this about the armament of the I2SD:
    “Octuple barbette turbolaser or Ion cannons (8)
    Heavy turbolaser batteries (50)
    Turbolaser batteries (50)
    Additional turbolaser batteries (26+)
    Heavy ion cannons (20)
    Phylon Q7 tractor beam projectors (10)”

    That was an update from earlier… I do believe if this is accurate, that a Star Destroyer could take on the guardians and the Tadugane solo…

  71. Ranger Lowk July 2, 2014 at 6:15 pm -      #71

    Weird, I was just about to start reading Knight O S. Anyone know if it’s any good?

    Found a clip of it animated starting one of the mechs.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVbY8xqE0dY

  72. Rookie July 2, 2014 at 11:39 pm -      #72

    @Ranger Lowk

    “Anyone know if it’s any good?”

    Not bad that for sure. Story is ok, action is good. I liked KoS more than Blame!, Biomega or Abara because KoS actually have a story that make sense.And it’s not all that dark compared to the Blame! for example.

  73. FlameStrike July 3, 2014 at 9:33 pm -      #73

    @Ranger Lowk

    It’s very good in my opinion. Lots of anime tend to go overboard with rule of cool, but KoS makes a balance between hard Sci-Fi and lol it just happens. The setting is engaging and the characters are nice.

    It’s cool to see KoS in a fact pile match…. but I think they’re out classed in this battle. It’s like a Cruiser trying to take on a Battleship or something. Maybe they could do something if they had the hax of Tanikaze and Tsumugi, but just the ship? I duno.

  74. Belisaurius July 4, 2014 at 5:57 pm -      #74

    Guardians have distinct advantages over TIE series fighters. First, since guardians prefer long range solid slug weaponry they have theoretically unlimited range. Ties use energy weapons almost exclusively (their other weapons are guided missiles in highly limited stocks) and thus suffer from dispersion. At long range the Ties will be a turkey shoot for the Guardians as even a single hit from such a high caliber weapon at such velocities would tear a fragile tie apart. TIEs also lack interial dampeners so the pilot would be killed by the very impact.

    At close range the guardians have an aptitude for lateral movement that nothing in the Star Wars universe can match. TIEs may zero in on a maneuvering guardian only for their quarry to simply slip out of their sights. The effect would be similar to MIG-15s versus Harriers.

    It is very likely that Tanikaze would participate in battle as his very survival depends on him deploying on all combat missions. If he doesn’t, he’s executed.

    As for the ships themselves, the tadugane seems like it has to firepower to wear down the Star Destroyer’s shields (solid slugs tend to be harder to deflect than energy weapons) but it lacks the armor to tank an SD’s turbolasers and Star Wars’s FTL means that they can’t out run or out maneuver a star destroyer.

  75. Tancalebner July 4, 2014 at 9:50 pm -      #75

    “First, since guardians prefer long range solid slug weaponry they have theoretically unlimited range.”

    That’s great if you think the TIEs are just gonna sit there…
    =
    “As for the ships themselves, the tadugane seems like it has to firepower to wear down the Star Destroyer’s shields (solid slugs tend to be harder to deflect than energy weapons)”

    What kind of logic is this???

  76. Sauroposeidon July 4, 2014 at 10:08 pm -      #76

    Yeah those Guardians are gonna rape the TIEs judging from the footage I’ve seen for the anime.. but.. I don’t know how strong their anti-ship weapon could be. Still, they might be useful, even if the anti-ship weapon is ineffective, at harassing the star destroyer. They could support their mother ship by crippling sub-systems on the star destroyer like its exposed shield generators, and later on perhaps the weapons or engines they could mess with.

    I don’t see how solid weapons are any harder to shield against. It’s just that Cap ships don’t usually devote nearly as much to particle shields (or any at all, since torpedoes routinely get through many cap ship shields).

  77. Rookie July 5, 2014 at 3:07 am -      #77

    @Sauroposeidon

    “I don’t know how strong their anti-ship weapon could be.”

    Do you remember Mass driver cannon? Gaunas is able to endure the hit without losing big amount of placenta (Organic armor):
    img.batoto.net/comics/2012/03/07/s/read4f57293dce111/img000030.png
    Guardians anti-ship weapons is capable to pierce Gaunas entire body and “true body” (which is nearly indestructible and the only weakness of the true body is Kabi weapons) in one shot:
    img.batoto.net/comics/2012/06/25/s/read4fe7e355b822b/img000014.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2012/06/25/s/read4fe7e355b822b/img000024.png
    Hope this will help.

    @Belisaurius

    “Tanikaze”

    He is very OP.

  78. Belisaurius July 5, 2014 at 3:53 pm -      #78

    @Tancalebner

    The TIEs lack the sensors to pick up a fast moving object like an anti-gauna round and the pilots lack the reactions to evade even if they could. As such, the TIE fighter commander has two options, rush in as fast as possible or random walk, that is make continuous evasive maneuvers regardless of if someone is shooting or not. A headlong charge means that the Guardians have a zero deflection shot which means that they can kill TIEs as fast as they can line up shots and pull triggers, we can estimate this at one shot per guardian per two seconds. In short, if the approach is more than 6 seconds the entirety of a star destroyer’s fighter compliment will be wiped out.

    The random walk approach offers only slightly better odds. Since each fighter is shifting course constantly and the shortest path between two points is a straight line this means the fighters will be delayed from closing into firing range. The chaotic nature of a random walk also means that any formation would be useless and it’s likely that instead of entering close range as a single mass the fighters will enter dogfighting range in a scattered mess, engaging in twos and threes instead of dozens at once. This would mean the TIEs would be destroyed in detail.

    I am basing the weakness to kinetics on several things like collision damage in video games, the description of particle and ray shields, the strength of weapons used against them, and the fact that in The Empire Strikes Back a star destroyer get’s it’s entire bridge smashed off by an asteroid traveling less that a kilometer a second.

  79. Senteth July 9, 2014 at 2:59 pm -      #79

    Someone mentioned that Guardians can move at Mach 88. That calc was actually done while they were in the middle of a deceleration burn. There’s another source that gives them speeds in excess of Mach 163.

    The Mizuki itself is also crazy fast. It can accelerate from a dead stop so fast that it looks like it simply vanishes to onlookers. For a 700+ meter long ship, that’s quite a feat.

    I doubt the Star Destroyer’s gunners are going to be able to tag it.

    Someone also mentioned that Tanikaze’s suit could chill in the corona of a blue giant. What they didn’t mention is that the Mizuki wasn’t too far away at the time and would have also been in the corona of the star for an extended period with no damage. Despite not having shields, their armor is incredibly resistant to energy-based attacks.

    As for the Mizuki’s weapons, don’t count them out simply because they’re physical projectiles. While we haven’t yet seen its weapons in action against anything calcable, we -have- seen what a retrofitted cargo ship about the same size as the Mizuki can do to a planet.
    img.batoto.net/comics/2014/05/10/s/read536d6e737f362/img000017.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2014/05/10/s/read536d6e737f362/img000024.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2014/05/10/s/read536d6e737f362/img000025.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2014/05/10/s/read536d6e737f362/img000027.png

    Easily continent-cracking levels of firepower with a single shot. Granted, they needed to overcharge the mass driver past its normal limits by 1,023% in order to do that, but keep in mind that it’s an obsolete cargo liner that’s been retrofitted with some weapons, unlike the Mizuki, which is a dedicated cutting-edge warship.

  80. seradon July 10, 2014 at 2:49 pm -      #80

    You know, I could definitely see a Tagudane face off and win against an ISD if it had it’s Guardian support but without them the ISD is gonna have a lethal edge due to it’s shielding and tractor beams. Sidonia’s armor tech only recently reached a truly impressive level and as such their new armor materials are only really used to reinforce Guardian cockpits, and though I do believe that the Tadugane class should at the very least have stronger armor than the Sidonia (which is old as fuck and would require massive projects to overhaul), just armor alone shouldn’t be enough to withstand the barrage of fire coming from the ISD.

    On the other hand, if this was the Mizuki with it’s unit complement it would probably devolve into a slaughter due to Nagate or Tsumugi just ramming the Imperials without a single care.

  81. Senteth July 10, 2014 at 5:59 pm -      #81

    @Seradon Even without its complement of Guardians, it still has vastly superior maneuverability and can make it extremely difficult for the the ISD’s gunners to hit it.

    The energy resistance of its hull also needs to be kept in mind.

    Quoting L-W about how much energy a Stargate ship would absorb from sitting near a blue giant;
    “During the episode “Enemies”, a Ha’tak vessel moved deep into the corona of a blue giant, to which they estimated that their shields would fail within ten hours under this bombardment. Based on the colour spectrum of the star, we can conclude that this star was at least ten thousand times greater to Earth’s star in terms of general luminosity. We can estimate corona power intensity to be roughly 600,000 MW/m^2, since that is the approximate power intensity at the surface of blue giants in general (note that the corona is outside the star). If we use a 100,000 m^2 profile area estimate, total absorption is roughly 60,000 TW.

    At a max absorption rate of 26103.7 megatons per hour, the shields of a Ha’tak would only be good for 261 gigatons of energy at most.” -L-W from BankGambling

    Now, the Mizuki is around the same length as a Hat’ak, but has a smaller profile due to its daggerlike shape. It’d still have had to absorb several gigatons worth of energy to its bare hull during its trip to the blue giant at the heart of the LEM system, all without any damage.

    With the high-end ICS calcs relegated to Legends status by Disney, I just don’t see a Star Destroyer putting out the firepower to breach the Mizuki’s hull, or survive even one of the continent-cracking mass cannon shots it should be able to fire.

  82. Belisaurius July 10, 2014 at 7:08 pm -      #82

    @Seradon

    Well, yes but a ww2 Yamato class battleship will destroy a modern Nimitz class carrier if the Nimitz doesn’t have any fighters.

    Granted, the Yamato has to catch the Nimitz first…

  83. seradon July 10, 2014 at 7:38 pm -      #83

    @Senteth
    _
    “Even without its complement of Guardians, it still has vastly superior maneuverability”
    This is why I made sure to mention the tractor beams. The Mizuki’s agility is one of it’s main assets but they have seemingly no way to defend themselves if they get trapped.

    “The energy resistance of its hull also needs to be kept in mind.”
    The thing is the Mizuki never actually approached Lem’s corona and it doesn’t posses the armor durability to do it (only Tsumugi and units built using their new armor materials can).
    Moreover, Sidonia’s standard defense against energy weapons is ablative coating specifically designed against Higgs particle emissions.
    It would be a different story if the Tadugane were built from their new armor but as it stands it’s armor is likely comparable to the same materials used in the production of the Type-18 and Type-19 Guardians which are still pretty fragile.

    @Belisaurius
    _
    Well yeah, but in this case the Yamato has a way to catch the Nimitz and not let go if it dares get too close.

  84. Belisaurius July 10, 2014 at 7:54 pm -      #84

    @Seradon

    Yes, but my point was that you might as well have torn the turbolasers off the star destroyer, or removed the 120mm from the M1 Abrams, or emasculated the gigolo. There’s almost no point to the Tadugane without guardians.

  85. seradon July 10, 2014 at 8:20 pm -      #85

    @Bellisaurius
    _
    Ah. Well yeah, that’s basically why I think the ISD would get the win here. Both vessels are designed to carry a complement of fighters but the ISD stands a better chance at going at things “solo”. Then again, I did mention how I believe it would be a complete massacre if they got Nagate in one of his newer models, or Tsumugi since either of them could probably take on an ISD and it’s complement on their own.

  86. Senteth July 10, 2014 at 10:00 pm -      #86

    @Seradon *checks manga again* Oops, looks like I misremembered how close the Mizuki actually got to LEM.

    z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/5777/08-059.0/compressed/i026.jpg?v=11402960321

    Still uncomfortably close to the star, but not close enough to qualify as being in the corona.

    I still stand by my assertion that it’s armor could take it though, since even if its hull is made of the same materials as the Type 19 Guardian and not anything more exotic like the Megastructure material being used for the upcoming Type 20s and being retrofitted into the cockpits of the earlier marks, remember that the Type 19’s armor had no troubles coping with the heat and radiation of being deep inside the corona, just a few hundred meters above the star’s photosphere.

    If the Mizuki has the same armor as the earlier Type 19, it should be able to withstand the same quantities of energy. The only problems Tanikaze had weren’t heat-related, but were from fighting the star’s gravity for an extended period until his engine eventually stalled and died on him. (presumably the reason the Mizuki kept its distance)

    As for the Star Wars tractor beams, Wookiepedia has this to say about them:

    “A tractor beam relied upon the inertia of the craft it was based upon as compared to the craft being affected. Ships with high inertia, typically meaning high mass, could affect smaller vessels with little strain on their own propulsion. Capital ships could tractor small freighters, for example, but if a freighter attempted to tractor a capital ship, it would actually affect the smaller freighter’s trajectory. For two ships of roughly equal size, the attraction was equal, but could be affected by the relative speeds of the two vessels. ”

    So it’d be trying to pull in something half its own size and moving substantially faster than it. Might slow it down some, but it’d hardly stop it in its tracks. It also doesn’t affect the Mizuki’s ability to hit the ISD with a few salvos of continent-cracking mass driver shots.

    Another thing about tractor beams that Wookipedia notes is that small fast ships can sometimes evade tractor beams altogether by outflying the ship’s targeting computer or the person operating the tractor beam. While the Mizuki may not be all that small, it -is- incredibly nimble and fast.

  87. seradon July 12, 2014 at 9:56 pm -      #87

    @Senteth
    _
    ” remember that the Type 19′s armor had no troubles coping with the heat and radiation of being deep inside the corona, just a few hundred meters above the star’s photosphere”
    Standard Type-19s can’t get that close to Lem either and in fact it is mentioned they have to stay away from the star or they’ll get dragged in by it’s gravity and die. Nagate could do it because his Guardian (the high-cost prototype) is actually designed completely using the new armor materials they are planning to use in the Type-20s. In fact, said Prototype is actually chilling right in the core of Lem completely intact but with a dead Higgs engine as hinted at by this fine scene: www.batoto.net/read/_/162946/sidonia-no-kishi_v8_ch38_by_illuminati-manga/18
    _
    “Might slow it down some, but it’d hardly stop it in its tracks”
    The problem with that idea is that the very quote you posted disproves it by stating that the vessels have to posses roughly the same size (or mass to be more accurate) in order to not get affected by the tractor beam. Keep in mind even using a hyperdrive isn’t an option when you get hit by a tractor beam and you can understand why even if the Tadugane possess far greater speed, they are gonna have a hard time if they get anchored.
    _
    “It also doesn’t affect the Mizuki’s ability to hit the ISD with a few salvos of continent-cracking mass driver shots”
    While this is true, you must keep in mind that firing a charge anywhere near that capacity involved overloading that small shuttles mass driver way beyond standard and we can’t be sure how much more powerful the Mizuki’s standard (non-overloaded) guns are without a knowing the scope of the shuttles own cannon.
    _
    “Another thing about tractor beams that Wookipedia notes is that small fast ships can sometimes evade tractor beams altogether”
    Small fast ships in this case refers to really small vessels like fighters or Corvettes like Rebel blockade runners specifically designed to get away from large ships before they get trapped. It is nowhere near as effective a tactic for a larger vessel such as a Nebulon-B, or other ships still smaller (though not that much smaller) than a Star Destroyer. Additionally, the Star Destroyer has 10 emitters so even if one misses, the Tadugane is gonna have a hard time of attempting to evade all 10 of them. Keep in mind even an X-Wing can get trapped in a tractor beam (or even hit by a Star Destroyers turbo lasers on a good day), and evading them usually requires impeccable timing the Tadugane is sure to lack due to Sidonia’s military having zero experience dealing with tractor beams (or any type of shield projectors for that matter).

  88. Senteth July 13, 2014 at 3:23 am -      #88

    @Seradon IIRC Tanikaze’s Type 19 prototype was the only one ever made. I only remember Tanikaze piloting one while the rest of the pilots still use Type 18’s.

    True, the Type 19 prototype was the first model to employ the new Megastructure armor, but it sounds like it was just used for the cockpit, the same as they later decided to use for retrofitting the regular Type 18’s cockpits with:
    z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/5777/06-030.0/compressed/n026.jpg?v=11353088621

    It wasn’t until Tanikaze lost his Type 19 to the star that he got a replacement which was completely armored in Megastructure, the Tsugumori MKII custom. (Albeit a lower quality version of it at 30% purity, unlike the upcoming Type 20, whose Megastructure armor would be over 99.999% pure)

    In the aftermath of his first fight with the Megastructure-armored MKII custom, they comment that with it’s durability it’s finally possible to tank hits in melee without being torn to shreds by the guana. If the Type 19 had the same Megastructure armor as the Tsugumori MKII custom, this wouldn’t be a noteworthy development.

    “The problem with that idea is that the very quote you posted disproves it by stating that the vessels have to posses roughly the same size (or mass to be more accurate) in order to not get affected by the tractor beam.”
    No, it said that ships were affected relative to their inertia. A tiny fighter can strain all it wants against the grip of a full-sized ISD, but it isn’t budging it in any meaningful fashion.

    On the other hand, a ship half the size of an ISD and moving at ludicrous velocities is going to have substantially greater inertia and should still be able to move. It’s not some fighter or blockade runner, but something large enough and with enough engine power to tow the ISD itself around if it tried any of those shenanigans.

    “While this is true, you must keep in mind that firing a charge anywhere near that capacity involved overloading that small shuttles mass driver way beyond standard”
    Barely 10x beyond the mass driver’s original specifications, and again, it was an obsolete civilian cargo ship retrofitted for a covert rescue mission, not a dedicated cutting-edge warship like the Mizuki, built to take on up to 5 medium-sized Mass Union Ships at once and still win. (No Higgs technology allowed on the cargo ship either, so it would have had to rely on obsolete generators for powering its gun too) We only saw one mass driver on the cargo ship. The Mizuki has 2 large mass drivers and 4 smaller ones.

    Even if we assume that the larger ones are only the same potency as the ones on the cargo ship, (which would be odd, since one’s an ancient junker chosen specifically because its obsolete non-Higgs based technology wouldn’t attract guana attention, and the other is a dedicated warship. They’re both around the same size too, so you can’t argue that the cargo ship might have been way larger than the Mizuki and therefore fitted with proportionally larger guns as a result either) even 1/10th of a continent-cracking shot would put a serious damper in a Star Destroyer’s day. And not only does it have multiple cannons, but it can fire them repeatedly. The final nail in the coffin is that if they need to, they can do the same thing the cargo ship did and temporarily disable the limiters on the mass drivers and fire some seriously juiced-up shots of their own. Might fry the mass drivers pulling a stunt like that, but if the ISD is in no shape to fight back at the end of the salvo, it counts as a win.

    There’s also the other weapons it has, like the heavy Higgs cannon or the anti-guana missiles, which are potent in their own right.

    “It is nowhere near as effective a tactic for a larger vessel such as a Nebulon-B, or other ships still smaller (though not that much smaller) than a Star Destroyer.”
    Larger vessels in the SW universe can’t accelerate so fast that they appear to instantly vanish from sight when starting from a dead stop. Hell, even small agile fighters can’t do that. (And no, the brief flicker of pseudo-motion as they jump into hyperspace doesn’t count)

    The Mizuki on the other hand most certainly can do that, as well as engage from well beyond the ISD’s range.

  89. seradon July 13, 2014 at 9:34 pm -      #89

    @Senteth
    _
    “True, the Type 19 prototype”
    The High Cost Prototype isn’t a prototype for the Type-19 (which was already seeing limited production at the time). It was more of a concept model to test out the new armors. Remember that Nagate used it to engage Benisuzume of all things directly in melee and the unit was left intact. Moreover, as I previously pointed out, only the new armor can withstand proximity to Lem and as such was able to survive even falling into the Star. No other Guardian could do that even if portions of the cockpit would survive. As a final addendum if you observe the image I posted previously, the technicians talk about how it’s the airframe that is built of the stuff in the (High Cost) prototype and not just the cockpit.
    _
    “It wasn’t until Tanikaze lost his Type 19 to the star that he got a replacement which was completely armored in Megastructure, the Tsugumori MKII custom. (Albeit a lower quality version of it at 30% purity, unlike the upcoming Type 20, whose Megastructure armor would be over 99.999% pure)”
    Tsugumori 2 was specifically mentioned to be capable of melee because they built the thing with melee in mind (after seeing the High Cost perform exemplary) and as such fitted the whole damn unit with Kabi blades and incredibly high rate machine guns.
    _
    “Barely 10x beyond the mass driver’s original specifications”
    Powering up a mass driver 10x beyond it’s designed specs is a pretty easy way to make the gun useless. At that level distortion via heat is almost assured. Moreover, keep in mind that just because the shuttle was obsolete doesn’t really mean much outside of power production since the weapons they retrofitted it with where likely state of the art.
    _
    “Larger vessels in the SW universe can’t accelerate so fast that they appear to instantly vanish from sight when starting from a dead stop”
    Having gone and re-checked the Mizuki’s original appearance, the vessel does not move anywhere near that fast (certainly not from a standstill to beyond visual range) in it’s standard or even combat speeds. It only achieves such rapid movement when prepping it’s engines for “Extraordinary Acceleration” and engaging their engines into such a mode seems to require the same standard preparations as any other Sci-fi vessel engaging it’s “gotta go fast” method. It also seems largely unsuited for combat operation, though it may be a saving grace for the Tadugane vessel if it gets caught in the tractor beam (though by the same account, it could end up frying the engines).

  90. GMoney July 26, 2014 at 10:26 pm -      #90

    While the Tadugane is much more maneuverable than an ISD and boasts weapons capable of breaking its shields after a few rounds. It in itself is not very durable and a couple of turbo lasers shots will rip it apart and if it gets hit by an ion cannon it’s dead in the water. I’m gonna have to give this one to The Star Destroyer because it will get enough shots to cripple the tadugane or hit it with an ion before the Mass drivers can breach the SD’s shields.
    Note: I got my info for the Tandugane from the Knights of Sidonia wiki so my info could be incorrect.

  91. Rookie August 21, 2014 at 1:00 pm -      #91

    Right now Tadugane wins here.
    Ship gained alot in firepower:
    img.batoto.net/comics/2014/07/26/s/read53d3fdeef32f2/img000026.png
    img.batoto.net/comics/2014/07/26/s/read53d3fdeef32f2/img000027.png

  92. Jolttra October 29, 2014 at 1:44 pm -      #92

    Is that a round cutting clean threw a moon? Wow. EU or not, Star Wars was never that high tier.

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