Raiden Vs Tyranid Swarmlord

Raiden Vs Tyranid Swarmlord

Suggested by DragonRebornLotM

For this fight we have Raiden from the Metal Gear franchise facing off against a Tyranid Swarmlord from Warhammer 40K.

The battle ground is Jurassic Park.

Who wins?

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241 Comments on "Raiden Vs Tyranid Swarmlord"

  1. Rookie July 6, 2014 at 6:52 am -      #1

    Raiden.
    Does Swarmlord have any actual feats?

  2. Ragnorke July 6, 2014 at 7:02 am -      #2

    …Raiden is pretty high-end superhuman, so i think he can take it.
    He has the strength to stop a damn ship! after already having his arms ripped off!
    & the whole Blade mode speed thing, which is kinda inconsistent, but it gives you an idea of his reflex/swinging speed.

  3. Laharl July 6, 2014 at 7:06 am -      #3

    Not inconsistent, upgrades.
    The one that stopped the ship could kill this one with some difficulty.
    The one who starts out before the full body replacement overall can kill it with a fair amount of ease.
    The current Raiden that can do blade mode can rip all of it’s arms off and beat it to death with said arms..

  4. LadyRamkin July 6, 2014 at 8:13 am -      #4

    @Rookie
    Not really, It’s just a really smart hive tyrant, so you could probably use hive tyrant feats for it, but it is no where near fast enough to keep up with Raiden.

  5. the watcher July 6, 2014 at 8:19 am -      #5

    “The battlefield is in Jurassic Park”
    They both get eaten by T.Rex. Speed/strength feats don’t matter, its a f*cking T.Rex.

    Swarmlord isn’t fast enough. Unless he’s lucky to fall on Raiden while leaking acid, he isn’t winning.

  6. Rookie July 6, 2014 at 8:22 am -      #6

    @LadyRamkin

    “Not really, It’s just a really smart hive tyrant, so you could probably use hive tyrant feats for it, but it is no where near fast enough to keep up with Raiden.”

    I see. In this case stomp for Raiden.

  7. Ragnorke July 6, 2014 at 8:50 am -      #7

    “They both get eaten by T.Rex. Speed/strength feats don’t matter, its a f*cking T.Rex.”

    Raiden fucks robotic T-Rexes on a regular basis…

  8. Rookie July 6, 2014 at 8:58 am -      #8

    Who can be opponents for them (recent versions)?
    fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2014/057/9/9/destroyers_by_ldn_rdnt-d782938.jpg

    I myself thinking about maybe Legion, Slattern and SpaceG.

  9. Neon Lord July 6, 2014 at 9:07 am -      #9

    By in-game stats, its speed should be on-par with high-end Eldar, whilst weapon skill is on/higher than Primarch level.

    It’s sabres suck the life force out of its opponents.

    I’m assuming the exhaust vents on its back are standard and emit toxic spores.

    The Swarmlord is also an extremely powerful psyker. Some of the basic Tyranid powers include flooding enemy minds with the presence of the Hive Mind, seizing control of victims mentally and turning them into puppets, activating every pain receptor in their body, psychic shrieks that shred minds, and general Warp blasts.

    Apart from this, the Swarmlord itself lacks feats, aside from general battle accounts. I’ll see if I can rustle up anything later.

  10. Rookie July 6, 2014 at 9:09 am -      #10

    @Neon Lord

    “The Swarmlord is also an extremely powerful psyker. ”

    “seizing control of victims”

    This may actually win a battle for him.

  11. Sauroposeidon July 6, 2014 at 9:38 am -      #11

    A T-Rex kills them both. Neither have a chance against that kind of bite force.

  12. Sauroposeidon July 6, 2014 at 9:52 am -      #12

    “Raiden fucks robotic T-Rexes on a regular basis…”

    Why is this game NOT rated AO?!?!?!

  13. Rookie July 6, 2014 at 9:56 am -      #13

    @Sauroposeidon

    “Why is this game NOT rated AO?!?!?!”

    Because they are both robotic obviously.

  14. Mike July 6, 2014 at 9:56 am -      #14

    “Jurassic park”…..
    So….Vince Vaughn runs off at the beginning of the fight to somehow save the day at the end while being a generally not known actor at the time and surviving what kills 90% of the rest of the people on the island? My vote is for him then.

  15. Sauroposeidon July 6, 2014 at 10:05 am -      #15

    “Because they are both robotic obviously.”

    Robot Beastiality. Now only earning a Mature rating in video games.

  16. Rookie July 6, 2014 at 10:08 am -      #16

    @Sauroposeidon

    “Robot Beastiality. Now only earning a Mature rating in video games.”

    At the very least MG T-Rex didn’t end up like this:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9I-X_5JtiY

  17. Sauroposeidon July 6, 2014 at 10:15 am -      #17

    I have a hard time keeping a straight face every time I see their idea of a giganotosaurus.

  18. Malenfant July 6, 2014 at 12:21 pm -      #18

    Raiden outpaced a fast-moving freight train with little effort while chasing Sundowner and N’Mani. His reaction times, however, are far superior. Demonstrating supersonic movements Raiden is capable of performing numerous slashes in a single solitary frame giving him the appearance of teleportation, and can even deflect multiple 12.7, 20 and 30mm rounds fired at extreme close range, implying reaction times of up to 2 milliseconds.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLYEaAZFztA

    At 4:55, he makes roughly 10 long slices through solid concrete in the space of about a millisecond. This was in his relatively outdated cyborg body, before getting a new cyborg body and (after that) getting loads if nice and shiny upgrades. And then there’s, of course, blade mode..

    Can the Swarmlord keep up with that speed?

  19. Glutinous-Bicarbonate July 6, 2014 at 12:33 pm -      #19

    Oh Lawdy, them early Sony clipping effects.

  20. Rookie July 6, 2014 at 12:42 pm -      #20

    @Malenfant

    “Can the Swarmlord keep up with that speed?”

    No.

  21. TheSorrow July 6, 2014 at 1:01 pm -      #21

    I think the Swarmlord will be smart enough to know that his physical would be outmatched by Raiden and fall back to using Psyker abilities to attack his mind.

    By the way, Raiden doesn’t have pain receptors does he? I would think he would if wanted to know when his body was damaged. Pain has it’s advantages.

  22. Rookie July 6, 2014 at 1:10 pm -      #22

    @TheSorrow

    “I think the Swarmlord will be smart enough to know that his physical would be outmatched by Raiden”

    But he never met Raiden how would he know that he is outmatch?

    “By the way, Raiden doesn’t have pain receptors does he?”

    He told the doctor to turn his ability to feel of pain on. This is why he able to use Jack the Ripper mode, but while he in this mode he feels as if he is skinned alive, this is why he can’t use this mode for long. So he can feel pain now.

  23. TheSorrow July 6, 2014 at 1:17 pm -      #23

    But he never met Raiden how would he know that he is outmatch?

    I’m saying while the Swarmlord is fighting him, why would we assume otherwise?

    while he in this mode he feels as if he is skinned alive, this is why he can’t use this mode for long.

    I guess he can handle pain well then.

  24. Rookie July 6, 2014 at 1:22 pm -      #24

    @TheSorrow

    “I’m saying while the Swarmlord is fighting him, why would we assume otherwise?”

    But if Swarmlord is already fighting Raiden how would he be able to use his psyker abilities against Raiden? Doesn’t he need to focus his mind for this? And won’t he be defenseless during this short moment? Because from the first look Raiden is seems to be more faster and can’t he kill Swarmlord before tyranid is able to mindrape cyborg?

  25. TheSorrow July 6, 2014 at 1:43 pm -      #25

    But if Swarmlord is already fighting Raiden how would he be able to use his psyker abilities against Raiden?

    By falling back to do it, or like Neon Lord said, emitting a psychic shriek. Swarmlord isn’t stupid, as I have mentioned before.

  26. OberHerr July 6, 2014 at 1:45 pm -      #26

    Most Psykers in WH40k lead with Warp attacks, and only fight in CQC when the enemy gets close. Which is very true for things like Tyranids that often lack ranged attacks. I guess it just matters if Raiden can kill him before he mind rapes. Because after that….Raiden’s probably fucked.

    And with most higher end psykers, like I’m assuming this one is, using Wap attacks is like second nature. Concentration isn’t that big a deal. Its instantaneous basically.

  27. Private Khaos July 6, 2014 at 2:03 pm -      #27

    To sum this match up it’s basically speed blitzing Vs mind rape? Also IIRC the Swarmlord’s bone swords can cut at a molecular level. I’ll try to find a source for it

  28. Private Khaos July 6, 2014 at 2:06 pm -      #28

    For anyone interested in reading up on the Swarmlord

    wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Swarmlord#.U7mPeNm9LCQ

    Honestly I think this could go either way

  29. Malenfant July 6, 2014 at 2:14 pm -      #29

    @TheSorrow

    “By falling back to do it, or like Neon Lord said, emitting a psychic shriek. Swarmlord isn’t stupid, as I have mentioned before.”

    I’m not sure the Swarmlord would have time to fall back. The psychic shriek could work.

    How durable is a Swarmlord?

  30. Alpha or Omega July 6, 2014 at 2:19 pm -      #30

    I never recall Raiden ever moving at super sonic speeds, nor do I recall Raiden ever deflecting bullets at extreme close range.(point blank range?)

  31. OberHerr July 6, 2014 at 2:20 pm -      #31

    I’m almost sure Raiden can kill him if he gets close. I think the issue is more if the Swarmlord can attack him psychically before he can get at the Swarmlord.

  32. TheSorrow July 6, 2014 at 2:21 pm -      #32

    Unless Raiden has some feats displaying resistance against mind attacks, he is practically defenseless.

  33. MrRyder July 6, 2014 at 3:00 pm -      #33

    Isn’t the Swarmlord like, the strongest amongst the legendary Tyranids? The strongest physical personification of the Hive Mind amongst the Swarm, said to have “eons of combat experience”, and has “wiped out entire civilizations and rendered planets completely barren” or something?

  34. Rookie July 6, 2014 at 3:04 pm -      #34

    @MrRyder

    “Isn’t the Swarmlord like, the strongest amongst the legendary Tyranids?”

    OOE is most likely stronger IMO.

  35. Total_Overkill July 6, 2014 at 3:05 pm -      #35

    So pulling from that wiki

    “As weapons the Swarmlord wields four bone sabres, crackling with disruptive power, that are capable of slicing through adamantium and force fields as if they were nothing. They differ from commonly seen Tyranid Boneswords in that each sabre has a crystalline growth, not indigenous to the galaxy, at its core that partially protrudes through the blade’s serrated surface. The Swarmlord can parry with these sabres at such speed that its foes find it all but impossible to inflict a hit on the creature.”

    i cant remember correctly, but im pretty sure that last sentence is directly translated into a game mechanic in which the swarmlord has a heafty invulnerability save, as he is essentially parrying Lascannon shots.

  36. Glutinous-Bicarbonate July 6, 2014 at 3:47 pm -      #36

    Old One Eye was a Carnifex.

  37. Rookie July 6, 2014 at 4:05 pm -      #37

    @Glutinous-Bicarbonate

    “Old One Eye was a Carnifex.”

    Is this makes him stronger or weaker than Swarmlord?

  38. Aelfinn July 6, 2014 at 4:10 pm -      #38

    “A T-Rex kills them both. Neither have a chance against that kind of bite force.”

    Not sure if joking or not. Raiden has some pretty good durability feats. T-Rex’s can’t make Metal Gears explode just by punching them (or biting them), and Raiden survived one of those punches to the face.
    =
    “This is why he able to use Jack the Ripper mode, but while he in this mode he feels as if he is skinned alive, this is why he can’t use this mode for long. So he can feel pain now.”

    He does stay in Jack the Ripper mode throughout the entirety of his fight with Monsoon, which likely indicates that the time limit is more of a game mechanic than anything else.
    =
    Raiden has armor that can survive being cut by swords that cut through “particle bonds”, and a sword that does the same. Not to mention that the sword can cut Metal Gears in half despite clearly not being long enough to do so. Not to mention that Raiden would be strong enough to lift the Swarmlord and throw it around, if he so chooses.
    =
    What are the mind-raping feats and the like of the Swarmlord?

  39. TheSorrow July 6, 2014 at 4:12 pm -      #39

    Is this makes him stronger or weaker than Swarmlord?

    Weaker, Carnifex are the shocktroopers of the Tyranids and Hive Tyrants are the battlefield commanders. The Swarmlord is far above a standard Hive Tyrant.

  40. TheSorrow July 6, 2014 at 4:17 pm -      #40

    What are the mind-raping feats and the like of the Swarmlord?

    Quote from Neon Lord:
    basic Tyranid powers include flooding enemy minds with the presence of the Hive Mind, seizing control of victims mentally and turning them into puppets, activating every pain receptor in their body, psychic shrieks that shred minds, and general Warp blasts.

  41. Rookie July 6, 2014 at 4:28 pm -      #41

    @TheSorrow

    “Weaker, Carnifex are the shocktroopers of the Tyranids and Hive Tyrants are the battlefield commanders. The Swarmlord is far above a standard Hive Tyrant.”

    Thanks for the info.

  42. Aelfinn July 6, 2014 at 4:34 pm -      #42

    “Quote from Neon Lord:”

    I saw that, but despite Neon Lord’s knowledge, he’s not a canon source of info. I’m looking at these sources, but it doesn’t say much about his psykic powers:
    wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Swarmlord#.U7mwAvnryT8
    1d4chan.org/wiki/Swarmlord
    Or even if Psykic powers are his go-to offense. He seems better-primed for melee, given his swords, but I don’t know.

  43. TheSorrow July 6, 2014 at 4:42 pm -      #43

    I saw that, but despite Neon Lord’s knowledge, he’s not a canon source of info. I’m looking at these sources, but it doesn’t say much about his psykic powers:

    You are looking in the wrong places. wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hive_Tyrant#.U7mzeFVOkuo

    Or even if Psykic powers are his go-to offense. He seems better-primed for melee, given his swords, but I don’t know.

    If his first inclination is to use melee attacks, it will soon realize that Raiden is very adept at close range combat and switch to attacks that can’t be parried by normal means.

  44. OberHerr July 6, 2014 at 4:54 pm -      #44

    He’s probably one of the best tacticians in WH40k. He beat out Carneus Malgar and the Ultrasmurfs, and didn’t wipe them out due to plot-shielding. And that was just the start.

    He is the end all for Tyranids. So powerscaling for lower tier Tyranid psykers would apply to him. Maybe not for the highest tiers, but lower tier for sure.

    And what we know of him from lore, he just wants to win. So, he would use as his first attacks a mix of psychic and melee.

  45. Malenfant July 6, 2014 at 5:01 pm -      #45

    “I never recall Raiden ever moving at super sonic speeds, nor do I recall Raiden ever deflecting bullets at extreme close range.(point blank range?)”

    Blade mode, and I semi-calced a video above.

    EDIT: And because it doesn’t seem to have been answered, exactly how durable is a Swarmlord?

  46. OberHerr July 6, 2014 at 5:01 pm -      #46

    Agh. Comment under moderation. Basically he almost wiped out the Smurfs, and Malgar in 1v1. In one of his first battles. He’s really smart, and he is the end all for Tyranids, so power-scaling for lower-tier Tyranid psyker feats would work.

  47. Ragnorke July 6, 2014 at 5:06 pm -      #47

    “I think the Swarmlord will be smart enough to know that his physical would be outmatched by Raiden and fall back to using Psyker abilities to attack his mind.”

    How would he know this? By the time he thinks of it he would be mince meat…

    “I’m saying while the Swarmlord is fighting him, why would we assume otherwise?”

    A physical fight wouldn’t last long…

    “I never recall Raiden ever moving at super sonic speeds, nor do I recall Raiden ever deflecting bullets at extreme close range.(point blank range?)”

    Does he NEED to be super sonic against this opponent though?
    As for the deflecting a bullet, it seems pretty clear he would be able to deflect it in blade mode unless it’s literally touching him when fired.

    “Unless Raiden has some feats displaying resistance against mind attacks, he is practically defenseless.”

    Someone said the characters CIS is to attack head on in melee.

    “Not to mention that the sword can cut Metal Gears in half despite clearly not being long enough to do so.”

    I think the explanation for this was that the force created by the sword is what cuts the molecular bonds, and not the sword it self… meaning he can actually cut things at a much greater range thn the length of the blade.
    This isn’t proven ofc, but… yea… you get what i mean.

    “If his first inclination is to use melee attacks, it will soon realize that Raiden is very adept at close range combat and switch to attacks that can’t be parried by normal means.”

    Anddddd End-thread?
    If it gets close enough to “realize that Raiden is very adept at close range” it will be dead.

  48. Aelfinn July 6, 2014 at 5:11 pm -      #48

    “You are looking in the wrong places.”

    I’m not sure my links were incorrect…but whatev. Even that link (which is still a wiki) doesn’t say anything about psykic attacks. In fact, it lists its “main weaponry” as its four scything claws and its “secondary weaponry” as fangs and claws.

  49. Alpha or Omega July 6, 2014 at 5:24 pm -      #49

    @Ragnorke
    “As for the deflecting a bullet, it seems pretty clear he would be able to deflect it in blade mode unless it’s literally touching him when fired.”
    /
    At extremely close ranges?
    /
    @Malenfant
    “Blade mode,”
    /
    How does Blade mode put Raiden at supersonic speeds?
    /
    “and I semi-calced a video above.”
    /
    How did you even figure that the time frame was a single millisecond? The time frame didn’t look like a millisecond. Can you put the calculations for how you got supersonic movement?

  50. Rhododendron July 6, 2014 at 5:29 pm -      #50

    @Off-topic
    I love how think people think a glorified Allosaurus(gigantosauarus) & giant fishing dino(spinosaurus) can beat the majestic tyrannosaurus Rex. The most humble of earth’s old creatures…
    —–
    ” T-Rex’s can’t make Metal Gears explode just by punching them ”
    ——
    ^Someone draw this…NOW ^_^
    —–
    @on-topic
    Yeah I can see raiden winning this by a lot….

  51. OberHerr July 6, 2014 at 5:35 pm -      #51

    I don’t know why people are assuming the Swarmlord is gonna go into CQC before even bothering with Psychic attacks. It attacks with both.

  52. Alpha or Omega July 6, 2014 at 5:38 pm -      #52

    Can’t believe I missed this
    @Aelfinn
    “Raiden has armor that can survive being cut by swords that cut through “particle bonds”,”
    /
    I clearly don’t remember this.
    I remember him having CNT compound armor but not one that can resist swords that cut particle bonds.
    /
    “and a sword that does the same.”
    /
    Actually, I don’t think he has Samuel’s sword anymore.

  53. TheSorrow July 6, 2014 at 5:39 pm -      #53

    How would he know this? By the time he thinks of it he would be mince meat…

    That’s a pretty large leap in logic, the Swarmlord also considered to be extremely fast, even by Ultramarine standards.

    A physical fight wouldn’t last long…

    Look at my previous response.

    Even that link (which is still a wiki) doesn’t say anything about psykic attacks

    It pays to read everything, the Overview of the page explains Hive Tyrant Psychic abilities.

  54. OberHerr July 6, 2014 at 5:45 pm -      #54

    Could his armor block Sam’s sword? I thought he couldn’t get hit by it?

  55. TheSorrow July 6, 2014 at 5:48 pm -      #55

    I find it strange that use a wiki as a reference to the Swarmlord’s psychic abilities, but when I give a link, it suddenly doesn’t matter.

  56. Alpha or Omega July 6, 2014 at 5:53 pm -      #56

    “Could his armor block Sam’s sword? I thought he couldn’t get hit by it?”
    /
    To be fair, unless it’s a scripted event or unavoidable part of gameplay, we can’t say what happened for gameplay.
    /
    However, the QTE does show that Raiden knocked his sword out of his hand, and then Sam decided to fight without his sword. It wasn’t until Sam got a nice cut that he decided to use his sword again.

  57. Malenfant July 6, 2014 at 5:57 pm -      #57

    “How does Blade mode put Raiden at supersonic speeds?”

    ..because blade mode. You’ve seen it, right?

    “How did you even figure that the time frame was a single millisecond? The time frame didn’t look like a millisecond. Can you put the calculations for how you got supersonic movement?”

    It was actually 210 milliseconds, for the record. I checked the frames of the video.

  58. OberHerr July 6, 2014 at 5:57 pm -      #58

    Well, I’m just thinking of when he cuts off Raiden’s arm earlier. It didn’t seem like his upgrades were good enough to block the sword again, but I could be wrong.

  59. Crimson Sentry July 6, 2014 at 5:59 pm -      #59

    Just an FYI for those who are not familiar with the Swarmlord, it is a supremely powerful psyker. Normally powerful psykers have the ability to scan entire planets in a moment for stray thoughts, that’s how the IoM scans for heresy on planets (they have psykers in orbit that routinely scan for people with heretical thoughts then send the arbitrators in when they find one). The Swarmlord is a very powerful telepath (being a powerful psyker goes hand in hand with telepathy in 40k), it would easily be able to notice and track Raiden in an area as small as Jurassic park and mentally incapacitate and destroy him before they remotely come into physical contact.

  60. Alpha or Omega July 6, 2014 at 6:02 pm -      #60

    “..because blade mode. You’ve seen it, right?”
    /
    Uh, I was probably one of the first guys here to introduce Raiden’s feats ever since Revengeance came out a year ago. It still doesn’t explain super sonic movements.
    /
    “It was actually 210 milliseconds, for the record. I checked the frames of the video.”
    /
    Then can you show how you got the super sonic speeds for it?

  61. Ragnorke July 6, 2014 at 6:02 pm -      #61

    “Actually, I don’t think he has Samuel’s sword anymore.”

    He doesn’t need sams sword, his own has the same effect.

    “Well, I’m just thinking of when he cuts off Raiden’s arm earlier. It didn’t seem like his upgrades were good enough to block the sword again, but I could be wrong.”

    True true, but right after that he stops a ship… and doesn’t turn into jelly.
    That’s definitely considered a good strength feat, but lets not forget the amount of force he was holding back without any arms, it’s an impressive durability feat too… i could get a rough calculation if needed.

  62. Glutinous-Bicarbonate July 6, 2014 at 6:09 pm -      #62

    What do we actually know about Calgar’s fight against the Swarmlord?

  63. Alpha or Omega July 6, 2014 at 6:10 pm -      #63

    “He doesn’t need sams sword, his own has the same effect.”
    /
    Last time I checked, Samuel’s sword can cut atoms. I don’t recall the same for Raiden’s.
    /
    “True true, but right after that he stops a ship… and doesn’t turn into jelly.”
    /
    I think you mean before, not after if you’re referring to MGS4.

  64. Ragnorke July 6, 2014 at 6:54 pm -      #64

    “I think you mean before, not after if you’re referring to MGS4.”

    My MGS memory is completely derping right now… i dont even…

  65. OberHerr July 6, 2014 at 6:59 pm -      #65

    “What do we actually know about Calgar’s fight against the Swarmlord?”

    I believe he cut off his arm, or something like that, and was beating him at every turn. He wasn’t able to kill him only because plotshielding and Smurf Captains being fed to-I mean rushing him and pushing him back.

  66. Sauroposeidon July 6, 2014 at 7:00 pm -      #66

    “Not sure if joking or not. Raiden has some pretty good durability feats. T-Rex’s can’t make Metal Gears explode just by punching them (or biting them), and Raiden survived one of those punches to the face.”

    Raiden lacks the muscle mass. There’s no way he could resist an attack from a T-Rex.

  67. Ragnorke July 6, 2014 at 7:10 pm -      #67

    “Raiden lacks the muscle mass. There’s no way he could resist an attack from a T-Rex.”

    Sarcasm, right?

  68. Laharl July 6, 2014 at 7:33 pm -      #68

    “I never recall Raiden ever moving at super sonic speeds, nor do I recall Raiden ever deflecting bullets at extreme close range.(point blank range?)” He has feats equivalent of deflecting bullets before the cyborg body when he has the suit in MGS2

  69. Commander Cross July 6, 2014 at 7:41 pm -      #69

    Unstoppable Force vs Unmovable Object.

    Physics Wins that department. 😐

  70. Alpha or Omega July 6, 2014 at 8:04 pm -      #70

    “He has feats equivalent of deflecting bullets before the cyborg body when he has the suit in MGS2”
    /
    TheObserver already told me this. It wasn’t at point blank range and it was in gameplay.

  71. Sauroposeidon July 6, 2014 at 8:06 pm -      #71

    “Sarcasm, right?”

    Logically, if physics permits Raiden to accomplish the feats he does. Then physics would permit the T-Rex to make atomic blasts just from clacking its jaws.

  72. Neon Lord July 6, 2014 at 8:33 pm -      #72

    “I saw that, but despite Neon Lord’s knowledge, he’s not a canon source of info. I’m looking at these sources, but it doesn’t say much about his psykic powers:”

    The Swarmlord is a commander first and foremost.

    And ignore the puppet-controlling one I stated. I made a big mistake and totally misread that one. I assumed it was similar to the normal power Pupper Master, but it turns out it was something different,

    Now for useful psychic powers:
    Catalyst: “Through its synaptic conduits, the power of the Hive Mind reaches out to infuse the
    organisms under its control, invigorating their systems with such unnatural vitality that they can ignore the most grievous of wounds.” This can be used on himself.
    The Horror – “The terrifying psychic presence of the Hive Mind radiates from the synapse creature, flooding the minds of the Tyranids’ enemies and causing them to quail and panic.”
    Paroxym – “The Hive Mind debilitates its enemies by triggering every nerve and pain receptor in their bodies, overwhelming their senses with wracking fits of agony.”
    Psychic Scream – “Through its vassal, the Hive Mind unleashes a piercing shriek of undiluted psychic energy that shreds the minds of those caught in the wake.”
    Warp Blast – “The Tyranid taps into the raw power of the Hive Mind, unleashing it as a blast of pure Warp energy that arcs from its cranium and vaporises its prey.”
    All from Codex: Tyranids (6th Edition).

    It is important to keep in mind that codices and rulebook psychic powers do not represent the full capabilities of psykers in-lore; just enough to make them useable in-game without making them OP.

    Going by the 6th Ed FAQ for the 5th Edition codex, GW did decide that Tyranids could use Biomancy, Telepathy and Telekinisis Powers, which included stuff like transmuting flesh to metal, mind rape, blood boiling, forcefields, warp gates, invisibility, puppet mastering (which was what I confused the new nid power for).

    And I just noticed that Psychic Shriek was a direct copy-paste from the same power in Telepathy.

    “I believe he cut off his arm, or something like that, and was beating him at every turn. He wasn’t able to kill him only because plotshielding and Smurf Captains being fed to-I mean rushing him and pushing him back.”

    You know the dumb thing? They added a new piece of fluff where there was a Calgar vs Swarmlord showdown V2. And Calgar won, like all good Smurfs do.

  73. OberHerr July 6, 2014 at 8:37 pm -      #73

    Oh, I’m sure the Swarmlord just felt bad for handing him his ass so hard last time and decided to give him a freebie.

  74. Neon Lord July 6, 2014 at 8:40 pm -      #74

    5th Edition Codex Powers extra (pg. 62):
    Leech Essence – “The Hive Tyrant rips the life force from its enemy, feeding upon it in order to reinvigorate and regenerate its own flesh”

    Old Blade Parry rule
    “The Swarmlord can parry with its blades at such speeds that opponents find it all but impossible to land their blows.”
    The fact this got represented by an in-game invulnerable save is near-unique (I think only one Dark Eldar character has something similar)

  75. Ragnorke July 6, 2014 at 9:00 pm -      #75

    “Logically, if physics permits Raiden to accomplish the feats he does. Then physics would permit the T-Rex to make atomic blasts just from clacking its jaws.”

    Lol… no… there is literally no logic in what you just said.
    Physics permits Raiden to accomplish the feats he does because he is a cyborg. Believe it or not, machines do not need to follow the “muscle mass is proportional to strength” formula.
    You have no idea the material his parts are made of, nor do you have any idea how much energy/force it is capable or producing/withstanding.
    So your point on power-scaling the T-rex based on the physics that apply to Raiden is completely invalid.

    Regardless, i know you were joking… or i think you were anyways

  76. Sauroposeidon July 6, 2014 at 9:16 pm -      #76

    Its cute that you at least tried to give me a proper response.

  77. OberHerr July 6, 2014 at 9:46 pm -      #77

    What do you mean? Don’t you know all T-Rex’s were forged out of pure unobtantium?

  78. Laharl July 6, 2014 at 9:54 pm -      #78

    “TheObserver already told me this. It wasn’t at point blank range and it was in gameplay.”
    I said equal to.
    Grey fox, guess who he isn’t better than.

  79. Alpha or Omega July 6, 2014 at 10:05 pm -      #79

    “I said equal to.
    Grey fox, guess who he isn’t better than.”
    /
    Raiden isn’t Gray Fox so it doesn’t even matter. Raiden still hasn’t shown to deflect bullets at point blank ranges.

  80. Alpha or Omega July 6, 2014 at 10:13 pm -      #80

    Also, Raiden can breakdance with robots. A T-Rex can’t do that. That seems like a win for Raiden.

  81. Laharl July 6, 2014 at 10:29 pm -      #81

    “Raiden isn’t Gray Fox so it doesn’t even matter. Raiden still hasn’t shown to deflect bullets at point blank ranges.”
    Yeah because Raiden having the ability to wipe the floor with gray fox in MGS2 before the vastly better cyborg body doesn’t matter. Raiden isn’t even near supersonic, He’s Hypersonic going by feats.
    Bullets are something he swats away with ease while he runs even at point blank ranges. Super sonic missiles are things he just jumps on. etc. Your mention of bullets not being shown blocked at point blank ranges is ignorance.
    www.narutoforums.com/showpost.php?p=49838941&postcount=21
    Many more examples of course.
    www.narutoforums.com/showpost.php?p=49700717&postcount=169
    Seeing as it’s a 4 hours game maybe you should go play it.

  82. Alpha or Omega July 6, 2014 at 10:49 pm -      #82

    “Yeah because Raiden having the ability to wipe the floor with gray fox in MGS2 before the vastly better cyborg body doesn’t matter.”
    /
    Raiden never faced Gray Fox and beating someone doesn’t mean you have their feats.
    I guess that means that the Flash must be
    /
    “Raiden isn’t even near supersonic, He’s Hypersonic going by feats.”
    /
    Raiden is below supersonic speeds. I have no idea what you’re talking about.
    /
    “Bullets are something he swats away with ease while he runs even at point blank ranges.”
    /
    Game mechanic due to block functions.
    Guess what, nearly every character would be able to block/deflect at point blank.
    Guess Samus and Pit would be able to dodge lasers at point blank due to the dodge functions.
    /
    “Super sonic missiles are things he just jumps on. etc.”
    /
    The missiles don’t even look like they’re going at super sonic speeds.
    /
    “Your mention of bullets not being shown blocked at point blank ranges is ignorance.”
    /
    Really? Because no feat shows Raiden capable of this.
    /
    “http://www.narutoforums.com/showpost.php?p=49838941&postcount=21”
    /
    First of all, this guy doesn’t post his sources for the helicopter.
    Second of all, this guy under the assumption that Sundowner was launched really fast(where are the numbers?)
    Third, the zandetsu shows that the bullets don’t change speeds at all. I don’t know where he got that bullets don’t move during zandetsu. But, hey, at least we agree that zandetsu isn’t legit.
    Four, I went over this nearly half a year ago on Raiden vs Samus or Raiden vs something.
    /
    “http://www.narutoforums.com/showpost.php?p=49700717&postcount=169”
    /
    LoL, this guy thinks these missiles move at a mach 1 velocity.
    Ahem, even if he was right, he did the calculations wrong. Assuming the base numbers(where did he pull the 0.9 from?) are right, you should get at least near mach 2 to mach 5. However, this is assuming the missiles go at mach 1 and they don’t even look like they’re going at mach 1.
    /
    Also, everyone over there is assuming zandetsu is consistent but it’s not.

  83. Alpha or Omega July 6, 2014 at 10:54 pm -      #83

    I also want to point out to everyone that the OBD calcs are questionable at best.
    Some guy calculated Dante to move at mach 11, but he forgot to convert 10cm to 0.1m and he should have gotten mach 1.01.
    /
    Just to warn the newcomers.

  84. Alpha or Omega July 6, 2014 at 11:01 pm -      #84

    “I guess that means that the Flash must be”
    /
    I was suppose to finish it ‘a planet buster since he can beat Superman’ but that part doesn’t really matter.

  85. Laharl July 7, 2014 at 12:12 am -      #85

    “I was suppose to finish it ‘a planet buster since he can beat Superman’ but that part doesn’t really matter.”That would be down playing flash at his peak.

    “I also want to point out to everyone that the OBD calcs are questionable at best.”
    Something something Fallacy
    “Some guy calculated Dante to move at mach 11, but he forgot to convert 10cm to 0.1m and he should have gotten mach 1.01.”
    Mach 11 is accurate if certain time items are involved.
    “The missiles don’t even look like they’re going at super sonic speeds.”
    They are supersonic missiles. Doesn’t matter how fast you think they are going. To Raiden they look slow. Even before this game snake could jump on much slower missiles and surf on them. Not a leap in logic if the type of missile is identified and has to be faster to even have a chance in a futuristic world.

    “Raiden never faced Gray Fox and beating someone doesn’t mean you have their feats.” Grey fox is an artifact compared to Raiden. Grey fox has feats of blocking bullets point blank. Think man.

    “First of all, this guy doesn’t post his sources for the helicopter.” The same for any helicopter. rotations per minute.
    Common sense.

    “Second of all, this guy under the assumption that Sundowner was launched really fast(where are the numbers?)” Being Launched by an explosion tends to mean you’re going to be launched fast.

    “Third, the zandetsu shows that the bullets don’t change speeds at all. I don’t know where he got that bullets don’t move during zandetsu. But, hey, at least we agree that zandetsu isn’t legit.”
    It’s legit, Just not in the way you think
    “Really? Because no feat shows Raiden capable of this.”
    This is a character action game. Ingame stuff is more believable as the ability of the character.
    He blatantly blocks bullets with ease even from machine gun fire point blank.
    Blade mode is the same way, an extension of his abilities and reflexes except super charged even more.

  86. OberHerr July 7, 2014 at 12:15 am -      #86

    I don’t see why him blocking bullets is an issue.

  87. Laharl July 7, 2014 at 12:19 am -      #87

    “I don’t see why him blocking bullets is an issue.”
    It’s apparently impossible for a cyborg that can toss metal gears that weigh millions of tons around to block bullets. Downplaying the abilities of actual character instead of actually disputing them is how this site works now.Nothing gets debunked just ignored.

  88. OberHerr July 7, 2014 at 12:45 am -      #88

    Well, I mean Hulk can toss those around too and not block bullets necessarily. But he has feats for doing it in game.

  89. TheSorrow July 7, 2014 at 1:26 am -      #89

    It’s apparently impossible for a cyborg that can toss metal gears that weigh millions of tons

    The biggest Metal Gear they had was at best only a few hundred possibly thousand tons.

  90. Aelfinn July 7, 2014 at 2:22 am -      #90

    “The biggest Metal Gear they had was at best only a few hundred possibly thousand tons.”

    Including Metal Gear Excelsus?
    =
    “It pays to read everything, the Overview of the page explains Hive Tyrant Psychic abilities.”

    Well, I swear the first time I read it it didn’t say anything. Hmm. I even double and triple-checked!
    =
    “I clearly don’t remember this.”

    Raiden survives a hit from Sam in their first duel, in Raiden’s lower-grade body. We see a splash of “blood”, but Raiden’s doesn’t even lose a limb.
    youtu.be/b9O-wqjVl6E
    =
    “Psychic Scream – “Through its vassal, the Hive Mind unleashes a piercing shriek of undiluted psychic energy that shreds the minds of those caught in the wake.””

    This is probably the one Psykic attack that would definitely work against Raiden, although a bit of fluff would be nice. How long it takes to do, whether any non-psyker resisted it, how far the range is, how likely it is to do so… these are all things that would help.
    =
    “Third, the zandetsu shows that the bullets don’t change speeds at all.”

    Bullets definitely change speed during Zandatsu. They don’t stop, no, but they definitely slow down.
    =
    “Something something Fallacy”,

    I believe that’s called “poisoning the well Fallacy”. To be fair, one person did “calc” Cloud to continent+ level, but that does not mean nothing they do is correct. I have used them on occasion, in fact.

  91. TheSorrow July 7, 2014 at 2:41 am -      #91

    Including Metal Gear Excelsus?

    That’s kind of what I meant when I said “biggest Metal Gear”. There is nothing in the entirety of Metal Gear that could be millions of tons.

  92. Alpha or Omega July 7, 2014 at 3:13 am -      #92

    @Laharl
    “That would be down playing flash at his peak.”
    /
    Except Flash can beat Superman without being at his peak. And he wasn’t even planet busting.
    Basically, the point of my message is just because you beat them doesn’t mean you’re stronger or faster.
    /
    “Something something Fallacy”
    /
    Whatever.
    /
    “Mach 11 is accurate if certain time items are involved.”
    /
    It was with a bullet and the calc wasn’t about time manipulations. And with time items, it’s way past mach 11.
    /
    “They are supersonic missiles. Doesn’t matter how fast you think they are going. To Raiden they look slow. Even before this game snake could jump on much slower missiles and surf on them. Not a leap in logic if the type of missile is identified and has to be faster to even have a chance in a futuristic world.”
    /
    Assertion isn’t proof. Ah yes, it looks slow because you’re playing as X argument. Prove it. Guess the plasma in Halo must be traveling near the speed of sound since Master Chief is in the single digit millisecond reaction times. Also, speaking of better and faster in the future, how did that go for Halo? Slow colorful globs called plasma from Covenant.
    /
    “Grey fox is an artifact compared to Raiden. Grey fox has feats of blocking bullets point blank. Think man.”
    /
    First of all, they have demonstrated different feats so it doesn’t matter. Also, just because you’re an artifact doesn’t mean the future guy is better.
    The Chozo have had better power suits than Samus despite being an ancient race to her.
    /
    “The same for any helicopter. rotations per minute.
    Common sense.”
    /
    Sure, sure. Numbers pulled out of no where like usual.
    /
    “Being Launched by an explosion tends to mean you’re going to be launched fast.”
    /
    Except there’s going to be resistance and there’s also the fact that fiction has shown slow explosions. Nevermind that the other point was that he wasn’t launched that fast(looks bloody slow) and he was still moving.
    /
    “It’s legit, Just not in the way you think”
    /
    Really? Because the guy you linked also thinks it may not be legit.
    /
    “This is a character action game. Ingame stuff is more believable as the ability of the character.”
    /
    Oh, so then in action games. I guess that means Samus and Pit have single digit nanosecond reaction times since their in-game dodging ability allows them to dodge lasers at point blank.
    Seriously, I’m not doubting the blade run ability, but should it be accounted for everything? No, since it blocks everything at any range as long as you’re holding the block/run button which is game mechanics.
    /
    “He blatantly blocks bullets with ease even from machine gun fire point blank.”
    /
    Game mechanic, otherwise we have nanosecond reaction timer Samus and Pit.
    /
    “Blade mode is the same way, an extension of his abilities and reflexes except super charged even more.”
    /
    I never claimed that it was game mechanics, but inconsistent since the slow-mo tends to slow each things differently.
    /
    @Oberherr
    “I don’t see why him blocking bullets is an issue.”
    /
    At point blank, that would make his speed better, but very questionable since he never did this in a cutscene and it’s coming from gameplay. If we let things like this accepted, Samus and Pit would have nanosecond reaction times since their dodge ability(sense move and Pit’s dodge) allows them to dodge lasers at point blank range.
    /
    @Aelfinn
    “Raiden survives a hit from Sam in their first duel, in Raiden’s lower-grade body. We see a splash of “blood”, but Raiden’s doesn’t even lose a limb.”
    /
    I’m pretty sure Raiden blocked the hit you’re talking about. I’m also pretty sure that you’re mistaking Sam’s red Muramasa’s blur as a splash of blood, because I don’t see a wound on Raiden until his left eye gets cut and his arm is chopped off. Also, your link lead me to the beginning of the video. Edit: Forgot to mention Vamp with non-particle cutting knives cuts Raiden several times.
    /
    “Bullets definitely change speed during Zandatsu. They don’t stop, no, but they definitely slow down.”
    /
    Really?
    Because the last time I played(and watched a video to check), when I used zandetsu on a mook, his allies’ bullets were still moving at the same speeds. Regardless, this still shows that zandetsu is still inconsistent.
    /
    “I believe that’s called “poisoning the well Fallacy”. To be fair, one person did “calc” Cloud to continent+ level, but that does not mean nothing they do is correct. I have used them on occasion, in fact.”
    /
    While I admit it is a fallacy, you have to admit, nearly all of them are bloody awful.
    Also, how do they not catch on to the mistakes they made? I recall TheSorrow or MeaQuidemSententia showing how the OBD calculated it wrong, got the wrong numbers, or used too much assumptions in the calculations.
    Not to mention, most of the feats seem like pure claims with no proof or ridiculous reasoning.
    /
    The only way I see one of their calcs is legit by having someone double checking it thoroughly and re-calculating it if their wrong.

  93. TheSorrow July 7, 2014 at 3:57 am -      #93

    I recall TheSorrow or MeaQuidemSententia showing how the OBD calculated it wrong, got the wrong numbers, or used too much assumptions in the calculations.

    More than likely MeaQuidem who pointed that out, I’m just very skeptical of any link Chuck provides for Dante. He has a habit of using anything that superficially supports his arguments.

  94. Aelfinn July 7, 2014 at 5:31 pm -      #94

    “I’m pretty sure Raiden blocked the hit you’re talking about. I’m also pretty sure that you’re mistaking Sam’s red Muramasa’s blur as a splash of blood, because I don’t see a wound on Raiden until his left eye gets cut and his arm is chopped off. Also, your link lead me to the beginning of the video”

    Whoops. I thought it would work. Go to around 12:25 or 12:30. Raiden gets smacked a couple times.
    =
    “Regardless, this still shows that zandetsu is still inconsistent.”

    I think that’s more up to rule-of-cool and Raiden’s choice than anything. Case-in-point: the Monsoon fight, where all the Helicopters fly at Raiden at one speed (during Blade Mode) and then slow down even further the closer they get.
    =
    “Forgot to mention Vamp with non-particle cutting knives cuts Raiden several times.”

    In an older body that’s different from even the one in the Prologue.
    =
    “At point blank, that would make his speed better, but very questionable since he never did this in a cutscene and it’s coming from gameplay. If we let things like this accepted, Samus and Pit would have nanosecond reaction times since their dodge ability(sense move and Pit’s dodge) allows them to dodge lasers at point blank range.”

    When Sam and Gray Fox can block bullets from point-blank, Raiden can block bullets even in his crappy body, the back cover of MGR shows Raiden blocking bullets at close range, and the ability to block bullets is such an integral aspect of gameplay it comes off as a little pedantic to claim that because it doesn’t happen in a cutscene, we can’t accept it. There are clear implications of his speed due to the fact that he gets defeated by Sam the first time but manages to kill him the second. When there is effectively a “block bullets, and only bullets” button in-game, and this works no matter what distance you are from the gun or what gun is firing at you, that’s another very strong implication of his abilities. In Raiden’s very first appearance in the game, he performs something like five slashes when it looks like he only did one. All of these factors paint a very clear picture about what he should be capable of, even if the game doesn’t straight-up say it.
    EDIT
    He does something like 7-10 countable slashes, actually.
    =
    “There is nothing in the entirety of Metal Gear that could be millions of tons.”

    Ah, you’re right. I seem to have mis-remebered something that was tickling the back of my brain, but I checked up on it.

  95. Aelfinn July 7, 2014 at 5:58 pm -      #95

    Calc-time
    =
    Raiden’s sword+arm combo is estimated to be 1.26 meters.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katana
    www.exrx.net/Kinesiology/Segments.html
    =
    In this video at around 4:55, we see Raiden perform a number of slashes after drawing his sword.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHFdcRCnFXw
    We only see these slashes on one side, so there could be an untold/unknowable amount on the other. In the first frame, with the camera centered on Raiden, we see 8 slashes. In the second frame, we again see 8 slashes. However, we should note that these slashes are in different positions than the ones before. Assuming that one of the slashes is the same from both frames, and assuming that two of Raiden’s slashes are the ones we see (which doesn’t make sense considering one was on the other side of his body), we can assume that 13 of the slashes were so fast as to be un-see-able.
    =
    Humans are capable of seeing images that exist for 20 milliseconds. It just takes them longer to process it afterwards.
    fias.uni-frankfurt.de/~triesch/courses/260object/papers/SpeedOfProcessing.pdf
    =
    Assuming that Raiden cut in a semi-circle with each slash, and using C = pi*r^2, we can low-ball estimate that the sword crossed 32.4 meters while un-see-able. 32.4 / 0.02 is equivalent to 1620 meters/second.

    Or approximately Mach 4.7

  96. Ragnorke July 7, 2014 at 6:05 pm -      #96

    ““He blatantly blocks bullets with ease even from machine gun fire point blank.”
    /
    Game mechanic, otherwise we have nanosecond reaction timer Samus and Pit.”

    I disagree with this, you can’t claim everything you see in game is a game-mechanic.
    That rule generally only applies when something in-game is inconsistent or contradicts something you see outside of gameplay. Or if it is a numerical value that is impossible to accurately translate from a Lore standpoint.
    Raiden cutting bullets is like a key-point of the game, and he manages to do it regardless of the distance…

    As for the samus & pit thing… why would they have nanosecond reaction times?
    The lasers shown in the game do not move that fast…
    Bullets in MGS move at the same speed as regular bullets though.

  97. Crimson Sentry July 7, 2014 at 6:14 pm -      #97

    Did no one read my prior post?
    The swarm Lord only would need to psychic scream raiden at a great distance after it found him with telepathy and call it a day.

  98. Ragnorke July 7, 2014 at 6:16 pm -      #98

    @Crimson
    That doesn’t seem to fit with his CIS from what i’v read, but then again… the fuck do i know

  99. pimpmage July 7, 2014 at 6:20 pm -      #99

    Why would we bring CIS into this? Both sides should be using their full capabilities depending on the scenario. If the fight starts with some distance between opponents, the tyranid should use his other abilities til they close to cqc distance.

  100. Aelfinn July 7, 2014 at 6:20 pm -      #100

    “The swarm Lord only would need to psychic scream raiden at a great distance after it found him with telepathy and call it a day.”

    The combatants generally start relatively close to each other. It’s not like they start on opposite sides of the island. And to quote myself:
    “This is probably the one Psykic attack that would definitely work against Raiden, although a bit of fluff would be nice. How long it takes to do, whether any non-psyker resisted it, how far the range is, how likely it is to do so… these are all things that would help.”

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