Blackwatch Vs Covenant

Blackwatch Vs Covenant

Suggested by croc911

Making their debut on BankGambling is Blackwatch from the Prototype franchise facing off against the Covenant from Halo.

This is a ground battle only. Only aerial units Blackwatch gets is F-22, F-35s, Apaches, and Blackhawks.

Covenant gets phantoms and banshees and maybe a couple scarabs.

Battle takes place in a post-apocalyptic New York.

Which side wins?

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121 Comments on "Blackwatch Vs Covenant"

  1. itcheyness June 27, 2014 at 6:56 am -      #1

    The Covenant massively outnumber the Blackwatch forces and subsequently ROFLstomp them.

  2. Neon Lord June 27, 2014 at 7:21 am -      #2

    I’m pretty sure this is intended to be equal numbers.

  3. Xander Xtreme June 27, 2014 at 8:09 am -      #3

    You guys wanna join the chatroom?

  4. Xander Xtreme June 27, 2014 at 8:12 am -      #4

    What? Why is my comment awaiting moderation?

  5. Mr. happy June 27, 2014 at 8:30 am -      #5

    Blackwatch is a lot more competent than the Covenant(if you disregard the part where they kept a runner in Manhattan) but without Marine/Army forces they are severely outmatched.

    Blackwatch is an organization specialized to contain and eliminate Redlight outbreaks. Pitting them against an army is bad regardless of how much armor they have since the majority of the forces they deployed were US Marines.

  6. fang44123 June 27, 2014 at 8:31 am -      #6

    Elites absolutely stomp. Their shields can soak up 90 kilojoules at the least, and the 5.56 bullets in the rifles they are using gives out about 1.8 kilojoules.
    so 90 / 1.8 = 50 shots to take down their shields, and their shields have around a four second recharge time.
    They are going to have to use a clip and a half of their weapons to effectively kill an elite, whilst the elites weapons give 3rd degree burns from near misses, blow off limbs, and eat through titanium.

  7. the watcher June 27, 2014 at 8:59 am -      #7

    Who could we add to blackwatch to make it even? More people? Why don’t we give them all the bazillions of U.S marines they used?

  8. fang44123 June 27, 2014 at 9:04 am -      #8

    @ the watcher

    There really isnt anything we can do to make it even. The covenant smoke modern day forces by so much its not even funny.
    Their weapons could slag modern day tanks with concentrated fire, and it also causes heavy EMP hardened suits to fuzz up (Mjolnir).

  9. croc911 June 27, 2014 at 9:34 am -      #9

    That’s funny..I thought I asked for equal numbers.

    Whatever. But if it was equal numbers blackwatch would win because their standard doctrine is to allow every soldier a heavy weapon: the Lmg, 40 mm revolver type grenade launcher, and javelin anti tank missiles .

  10. Jolttra June 27, 2014 at 9:38 am -      #10

    Assuming Space craft aren’t allowed, Blackwatch takes air superiority easy. A big advantage, but not enough in my opinion. Between the nearly unstoppable Scarabs, the powerhouse Hunters, stealth units, super long range snipers and artillery weapons, and powerful weapons and shields I think the Covenant have the overall advantage. If they can destroy the airfields I they have it in the bag.

  11. mack006 June 27, 2014 at 9:43 am -      #11

    Do the Blackwatch have access to the virus? Supreme hunter is gonna be a pain

  12. croc911 June 27, 2014 at 9:49 am -      #12

    @Fang44123
    How do elites stomp? Masterchief and Unsc marines have been known to kill those charging fools with bursts from MA5B rifles . The fact that most blackwatch operatives carry grenade launchers and rocket launchers is overkill.
    @Mack006
    Isn’t the blackwatch general in prototype 1 the supreme hunter? That should be part of canon I believe.

    I wonder if a thermobaric tank can take out a scarab?

  13. Xander Xtreme June 27, 2014 at 9:56 am -      #13

    Anyone?

  14. croc911 June 27, 2014 at 10:07 am -      #14

    The unsc wins ground engagements against the covenant. Their weaponry consists of various small arms like the MA5B and possibly the occasional rocket launcher. Their vehicles mainly consist of the warthog with machine guns and if you’re lucky, maybe gauss or rocket launchers. Some scorpions are fielded as well. Air support usually consists of falcons and hornets.

    In contrast blackwatch fields much more heavy weaponry than the Unsc. The only thing they don’t have are the necessary numbers. The Bradley apc has a 25 mm bushmaster cannon and TOW missiles . The M1 Abrams fires 120 mm heat sabot and may also have thermobaric cannons. Blackwatch also has apaches and Blackhawks with hellfire missiles, hydra rocket pods, and 30 mm chain guns. Some helicopters even have thermobaric cannons. Blackwatch also regularly uses jets to call air strikes on mercer.

    In general , I believe in an equal numbers engagement blackwatch would win due to fielding heavy explosive weaponry (taking away the threat of covenant shields and body armor) and also field superior vehicles with more firepower to penetrate and destroy covenant vehicles.

    Obviously, covenants can no doubt reduce blackwatch vehicles to molten slag with their plasma mortars and even rifles. But no covenant is entirely resistant to such explosive weaponry, so I’m saying it could go both ways.

  15. Ragnorke June 27, 2014 at 11:45 am -      #15

    Literally nothing in the prototype game can compete with the Covenant, not even Mercer/Hellar themselves (not that they would be with black-watch anyways)

    Sure they could kill a few hundred… maybe… but we have no idea how their bio-mass would even react to plasma bolts and etc

    Black-watch =/= US military. They were a very niche sect with a unique task.
    They really can’t keep up with a fleet as advanced as the Covenant, even if equal in numbers.

  16. Agent June 27, 2014 at 11:46 am -      #16

    On the ground, personally I see the covenant being more than a match for Blackwatch, in terms of one on one soldiers. However, the Blackwatch have access to quite a few special toys, mainly in the name of the ORION Soldiers, humans infected with a controlled strain of the BLACKLIGHT strain that pose a threat even to Mercer or Heller.

    As well, they have access to Thermoberic weapons, which will wreck havoc on almost anything they hit, especially infantry. And the fact they can mount these things on attack helicopters and do bombing runs with them only further aids them.

    Also, do they have access to the containers of Whitelight? If so, I’d imagine just dropping a few of them into Covenant controlled territory would cause a bit of chaos if, (big if here, we don’t know if it can infect sangheili, unggoy, jiralhane, kig-yar, or yam’ne), and when it infects and turns the covenant into biological monstrosities.

    But on the same hand, the Scarabs are going to be tough to beat, especially since they possess a large anti-air turret, but, I’d think the ORION Soldiers with their near super human agility could in theory board and destroy it…If they didn’t get gunned down en route.

  17. croc911 June 27, 2014 at 11:55 am -      #17

    @Ragnorke
    Read the scenario, covenant don’t get their fleet for obvious reasons.
    Understandably blackwatch is a division level faction and is vastly outnumbered. See above for my explanation however. I don’t need to repeat myself.
    @Agent
    I’d like to see a scarab tank a thermobaric explosion from a chopper and tank and survive. Actually I think on a one to one basis blackwatch is laughably superior due to the fact that they are all ex special forces with additional training on dealing with infected. Also medieval style covenant soldiers enjoy charging at the enemy in a chivalry style glorified knightly charge with energy swords. This is especially the case of elites.

  18. Ragnorke June 27, 2014 at 11:57 am -      #18

    “mainly in the name of the ORION Soldiers, humans infected with a controlled strain of the BLACKLIGHT strain that pose a threat even to Mercer or Heller.”

    Pose a threat… to Mercer/Heller?
    You serious? lol…

    “Covenant gets phantoms and banshees ”

    So can anyone in black-watch survive plasma shots?
    Heck i doubt Alex would survive Plasma shots.

  19. Agent June 27, 2014 at 11:57 am -      #19

    Sorry for the double post, I realize I meant D-Code Soldiers, not ORION, since only one of them was produced…And died…My bad.

  20. Agent June 27, 2014 at 12:02 pm -      #20

    @Ragnorke

    Yes, the Super Soldiers, as they’re known, DID pose a potential threat to Mercer. They were infected with a strain of the same virus, and developed physical super human abilities almost on par with him. To the point where they could regularly take on larger infected such as the Hunters, or at several points, Mercer himself.

    I’ll try to find a video on their physical feats later, internet’s being wonky right now, so if someone else could for now, it’d be appreciated.

  21. croc911 June 27, 2014 at 12:31 pm -      #21

    @Ragnorke
    What I meant was that they don’t get their battleships . Besides, don’t the banshees go as fast as biplanes ? F-22s and F-35s could easily establish air superiority.

  22. OberHearse June 27, 2014 at 12:42 pm -      #22

    Why does the Blackwatch get F-22s and F-35s while the Covenant gets their’s version of a helicopter and a one man chopper?

    Regardless, Scarab’s stop most of the rest of the forces, even if the Covenant is nerfed from basically all of their standard vehicles. Plus they have outrageously more forces numerically.

  23. Secrecy27 June 27, 2014 at 12:44 pm -      #23

    “Heck i doubt Alex would survive Plasma shots.”

    I very much doubt he would die by a plasma shot. Halo plasma leaves burns, if I’m not mistaken, and Mercer has a high resistance against fire.

    And wasn’t the common Assault Rifle in Halo laughable even by modern standards?

  24. OberHearse June 27, 2014 at 12:59 pm -      #24

    Halo plasma burns/melts through things easily. It burns through titanium easily. There is a reason it’s so good against a bio-form like the Flood. And Assault Rifles in Halo lack the range of ones in real life. And not that any of this matters because the Covenant won’t be fighting them. But yes, while I’m not sure how quickly it could kill him, Plasma would be a perfect weapon against him.

  25. Ragnorke June 27, 2014 at 12:59 pm -      #25

    “And wasn’t the common Assault Rifle in Halo laughable even by modern standards?”

    In rounds/per second, yea…
    But you need to keep in mind those rounds/guns might have been designed specifically to be more effective against covenant armor and vehicles.

  26. Secrecy27 June 27, 2014 at 1:11 pm -      #26

    But you need to keep in mind those rounds/guns might have been designed specifically to be more effective against covenant armor and vehicles

    might“? I’m want proof of that please.

    Are the 102mm HEAT missiles fired by the M41 SSR MAV/AW more powerfull than the 110mm HEAT fired by a FGM-148 Javelin?

    Also, M808 “Scorpion” MBT Vs M1A2 Abrams MBT

    Covenant are nerfed so heavily Blackwatch (with marine help) might win, might.

  27. Ragnorke June 27, 2014 at 1:33 pm -      #27

    ““might“? I’m want proof of that please.”

    Dont have any proof… which is why i said “might”
    It’s only logical though. You adapt your technology based on your enemy.

    “Covenant are nerfed so heavily Blackwatch (with marine help) might win, might.”

    ‘Tis a possibility.

  28. Secrecy27 June 27, 2014 at 1:37 pm -      #28

    It’s only logical though. You adapt your technology based on your enemy.

    UNSC threw logic out the window when designing their ground assets. Just saying.

  29. croc911 June 27, 2014 at 1:49 pm -      #29

    When I submitted the battle request I didn’t think it would go through so I kind of BS the scenario. Ideally, I would allow the covenant all it’s ground units but make it equal numbers with blackwatch.

  30. Agent June 27, 2014 at 1:52 pm -      #30

    Wouldn’t the Blackwatch be able to just do a few bombing runs with their Thermoberic helicopters to wipe out a lot of the Covenants ground troops?

  31. croc911 June 27, 2014 at 3:17 pm -      #31

    Even if the covenant had wraiths or ghosts it wouldnt make a difference. Thermobaric weaponry and vehicles that actually make sense win out. The only advantage the covenant has are numbers. Both factions can kill and destroy each other no doubt.

  32. Secrecy27 June 27, 2014 at 3:24 pm -      #32

    Exacly how many Thermobaric Helicopters do we see?

  33. croc911 June 27, 2014 at 3:29 pm -      #33

    @Secrecy27
    I haven’t played prototype for a long time. I think there was this mission where mercer or heller (not sure if its pro 1 or 2) had to bring down a fleet of thermobaric choppers. Someone correct me if my memory is wrong.

  34. Secrecy27 June 27, 2014 at 3:32 pm -      #34

    Prototype 2, since I have played the thirst one, and there are none of these there.

    According to the wiki there are only 9 of these. Combine that 2 Thermobaric tanks, Blackwatch only have 11 Thermobaric weapon-platforms, no more.

  35. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets June 27, 2014 at 3:36 pm -      #35

    “Literally nothing in the prototype game can compete with the Covenant, not even Mercer/Hellar themselves”

    Mercer, Heller, and the Evolved definitely pose a threat. The guys are easily capable of dodging missiles no problem. They can pick up tanks and throw them effortlessly. They’re other abilities are more than enough to make them a threat to the Covenant. That’s not even getting into the things like the other Blacklight infected.
    =
    “I would allow the covenant all it’s ground units but make it equal numbers with blackwatch.”

    You can change the scenario as many times as you want before the 50th post, just so you know. So if you want the equal numbers just say it.
    =
    Since this is post apocalyptic NY I’m assuming we’re using the Blacklight virus? Or the Flood? If the former, then I think Blackwatch barely pulls this one out. Covvies aren’t going to know how to deal with Blacklight’s more troublesome things(mainly Mercer, Heller, and the Evolved). Without interference of Blacklight infected the Covvies win this hands down. If the latter then I think Covvies would stomp.

  36. croc911 June 27, 2014 at 3:41 pm -      #36

    Changed scenario: covenants gets wraiths and ghosts as well as seraphs. And equal numbers for blackwatch and covenant in all aspects.
    Thx Allergic

  37. Secrecy27 June 27, 2014 at 3:42 pm -      #37

    I thought this was only between Blackwatch and The Covenant? When the OP said post-apocalyptic NY I though it was only the ruins.

  38. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets June 27, 2014 at 3:43 pm -      #38

    @Croc No problem. So since it’s post apocalyptic NY that means Blackwatch virus running around, Flood, or just that a it’s rundown city?
    =
    @Secrecy He mentioned PA NY, so I thought that meant Blackwatch or flood. Maybe it’s just a rundown NY *shrugs*

  39. croc911 June 27, 2014 at 3:57 pm -      #39

    @allergic

    post-apocalyptic is just a run down New York. It’s nothing special. Maybe in some other match we can have the flood vs blacklight or redlight.

  40. Secrecy27 June 27, 2014 at 4:03 pm -      #40

    Anyway, according to the link to another BankGambling thread, the M1A2 Abrams MBT is vastly superior to the Scorpion, everything except topspeed off-road. And the Abrams is the deployed MBT of Blackwatch and the marines. A scorpion can destroy a Wraith in 2-3 hits (in-game, don’t know about lore) with its 90mm Tungsten rounds, the Abrams 128mm cannon should be able to easily destroy a Wratih.

    (Notice: this data can be out-dated)

  41. fang44123 June 27, 2014 at 4:05 pm -      #41

    @croc
    The UNSC’s weapons far outstrip ours.. their assault rifles give out 3.8 kilojoules while ours standard rifle only gives out about 1.8. this means that they need alot more ammo to be taken down. as iv said, roughly a clip and a half from our rifles would be needed just to drop their shields. this is a low end feat. their higher ends go up to about 280 kilojoules as seen here “”Linda shot one of the EVA aliens. Shields shimmered around its body and the round bounced off. She didn’t stop. She pumped four more rounds into the creature—hitting a pinpoint target in its neck. Its shields flickered and a round got through. Black blood gushed from the wound and the creature writhed in space.”
    Pg.285 FoR.

    As for the heavy weapons, you never really see them used in cutscenes, black watch is mainly seen using rifles and pistols. The heavy weapons are there, but not every man and his mom has one, and even if they did it wouldnt make much of a difference. The elites can sprint at 40 MPH and clear any distances pretty easily, and have reaction times good enough to go into hand to hand combat with Spartan II’s (whom have a 5 or 4 millisecond reaction time). Im pretty sure they could easily avoid a rocket at range.

  42. Secrecy27 June 27, 2014 at 4:08 pm -      #42

    @fang44123
    The UNSC’s weapons far outstrip ours.. their assault rifles give out 3.8 kilojoules while ours standard rifle only gives out about 1.8

    Can you please provide evidence to this statement?

    Im pretty sure they could easily avoid a rocket at range

    Please provide evidence.

  43. croc911 June 27, 2014 at 4:17 pm -      #43

    @fang44123
    Have you even played Prototype? Or did you just watch the cutscenes. In the cutscenes, black watch soldiers have rifles for their “kill random civilians” and “kill the occasional walker” activities. If you play the game, almost ALL black watch soldiers carry either an LMG, Grenade Launcher, and Javelin. Sure not all of them have it, but like 80% of the operatives have heavy weapons. Usually, when you are in disguise and suddenly you are found, half the time a Javelin is already on its way.

    Also, this isn’t the Matrix, Elites cannot dodge grenades and Javelins moving at such high velocities. They cannot “run” away from these projectiles nor can they side step them Master Chief only dodged that missile with the help of Cortana, and Elites don’t have cortana. Elites don’t have fast reactions like spartans anyway. Half the time, in melee its the Elite trying to use his brute strength to kill a spartan with the energy sword. It’s not a karate or kungfu dodge punches kind of melee fight.

  44. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets June 27, 2014 at 4:25 pm -      #44

    @Croc K, well in that case Covvies should win this. I don’t think it’s a stomp by any means, but it won’t be too much trouble for the Covvies. The only real problem I think that the Covvies would come up against are Super Soldiers and any thermobaric weaponry/vehicles(tanks, helicopters, and I think missile launchers, although that was DLC). Overall though, they should be fine against most things.
    =
    “280 kilojoules”

    The wiki says about 15MJ(although it’s unsourced).

  45. Secrecy27 June 27, 2014 at 4:35 pm -      #45

    @Ch1c
    Missile launcher aka Javelins are by no means DLC.

  46. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets June 27, 2014 at 4:37 pm -      #46

    @Secrecy The ones of the thermobaric nature are. I believe it was called the Thermobaric Boomstick? Don’t remember, it’s been a while.

  47. fang44123 June 27, 2014 at 4:40 pm -      #47

    @secrecy 27

    Our standard rifles use 5.56 MM bullets fired at 875 M/S, so lets use the KE formula to figure out how strong that is:

    .5 x M x V^2
    .5 x .005 x 875
    .5 x .005 x 765625
    .5 x 3828.125
    KE = 1914 joules or 1.9 kilojoules.

    The UNSC assault rifle fires 7.62 x 51 MM bullets at 905 M/S, and each bullet weighs 9.3 grams low end.

    .5 x .0093 x 905
    .5 x .0093 x 819025
    .5 x 7616.9325
    KE = 3808.46625 joules or 3.8 kilojoules.

    it has a faster rate of fire (15 rounds per second) and has the same stopping power as a sniper rifle. this gun has very little recoil, so much so that Marines whom had never fired the weapon were getting headshots at 200 meters +.

    Their sniper rifle shoots 14.5 x 114 MM rounds that weigh 66 grams (.066) at 1530 M/S

    that gives us 77249.7 joules or 77 kilojoules per shot. while the barrett 50 cal gives out 18 kilojoules.

    as for dodging a rocket, The elites reaction times are probably around 20 milliseconds, seeing as they can fight with spartans whom have a 5 millisecond reaction time, and the average rocket goes roughly 400 M/S. assuming they are a few buildings away, they would have enough time to move out of the way. withing a closed space, they may dodge the rocket, but they are not escaping the blast, but the shooter isnt escaping the pressure wave.

  48. Secrecy27 June 27, 2014 at 4:44 pm -      #48

    A single FGM-148 Javelin missile, with lock-on against everything, is equall or superior to the M41 SSR MAV/AW, which kills an Sangheili instantly.

  49. erickyboo June 27, 2014 at 4:47 pm -      #49

    Are you using halo.wiki? Use halopedia instead.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu8VDUDzxkM
    The banshee doesn’t go slow.

    So can the covies use AA defenses?
    www.halopedia.org/Type-27_Anti-Aircraft_Cannon

    A quote on elites dodging and the seeker drone.
    “Elites can dodge just about anything you shoot their way. Luckily, seeker drones don’t care much for gymnastics.” —Private Jamie O’Neal

  50. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets June 27, 2014 at 4:56 pm -      #50

    @Ericky Yea, I was. Although, doesn’t seem too farfetched. I think the highest I’ve seen someone calc it was 80MJ and that was on this site. Forgot who though, I’d have to search for it.

  51. fang44123 June 27, 2014 at 5:05 pm -      #51

    @croc
    yes iv played prototype, both of them. on the first one i had 100 percent completion. Assuming it was a 8 man squad and there was two of every weapon then it would be two: M4’s
    two :M249 LMG
    two: M32 Grenade launcher
    two: FGM – 148 javelins

    to the covenants:
    two: plasma rifles
    two: carbines
    two: fuel rods

    now as iv stated plasma weapons give 3rd degree burns from near misses, melt through titanium A plates, and have a EMP effect on electronics, and since the elites (going with a median of low end and high end) have a 185 kilojoule shield.

    The elites cannot be suppressed and can easily suppress blackwatch and damage them with near misses, can melt through cover, are faster, stronger, can sprint from cover to cover more quickly than any human can and they are going to need heavy ordnance to take out.

    their LMG uses 5.56 mm bullets and has a 900 M/S muzzle velocity.

    so: .5 x .005 x 900^2
    .5 x .005 x 810000
    .5 x 4050
    2025 joules or 2.0 joules per shot.
    going with the median shield of 185 it would take 92.5 shots to kill an elite. it has a ROF of any where from 400 RPM to 800 RPM.
    so 800/60 = 13 shots per second and to break the shields the elite would have to stand there for 7 second with continuous fire to drop the shield.

  52. croc911 June 27, 2014 at 5:18 pm -      #52

    @fang44123
    I just see speculation all over the place. You say they sprint from cover to cover. Covenant hardly take cover. They usually charge like idiots, like some cavalry charge. The elites, for honor, often charge with energy swords at the enemy. Are they so limited that they don’t know the obvious tactical advantage of a ranged projectile weapon? The elites are wannabe Jedi.

  53. Secrecy27 June 27, 2014 at 5:21 pm -      #53

    @fang44123
    There is a small problem with you calculations, Blackwatch uses the M16A4 carbine from the looks of it, which uses 5.56mm fired with a muzzle velocity of 948 m/s and fires 850 rounds/min.
    5 x M x V^2
    .5 x .005 x 948 898704
    .5 x .005 x 898704
    .5 x 4493.52
    KE=2247.78 joules or 2.2 kilojoules
    The M16A4 carbine has a effective range of 550m to 800m, while the MA5C assault rifle has 300m.

  54. fang44123 June 27, 2014 at 5:31 pm -      #54

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3gUpIPdopo

    Thats how elite typically fight. even in fluff they take cover, and use tactics and are actually quite smart.
    In GoO The elites had jackals move up in a phalanx formation and close the distance on Kurt, Linda, and Fred and a few S3’s while grunts shot mortars at them and the elites moved behind the jackals.
    There was also another one in Tfor (i think) where an elite was hiding behind a phalanx of jackals and got stuck in the face by chief.
    Can you provide the quote for the elites just running onto bullets, where it wasnt an ambush attempt?

  55. Secrecy27 June 27, 2014 at 5:37 pm -      #55

    @Fang44123
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmjcLujTDhk, 0:17 and 6:30.

  56. croc911 June 27, 2014 at 5:39 pm -      #56

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkFj1JtZAyk

    We can see the elite charging with the pikes!

    Phalanx formation is going to be so devastating its not even funny. The amount of grenades and rockets will blow up the densely packed bodies. Blackwatch also has heavy artillery because they often call down artillery strikes on Mercer. Phalanx formation isnt the best formation when your enemy has explosives.

  57. fang44123 June 27, 2014 at 5:39 pm -      #57

    @ secrecy
    prototype.wikia.com/wiki/Blackwatch_soldier
    thats what i used, although i messed up and put 875 instead of 880 M/s, sorry.

    As for effective range, typical firefights happen within 100 meters. 300 meters + is marksman/sniper territory.

  58. croc911 June 27, 2014 at 5:45 pm -      #58

    @secrecy
    Blackwatch operatives are trained to shoot the in the head which are most of the covenants weak point. Their guns also have scopes on them too. www.youtube.com/watch?v=RahEtkVxAPA
    Look at 1:57

    Also, i found on internet movie firearms database.

    “The Milkor MGL Mk 1L grenade launcher is a useful weapon because of its range, power, and accessibility. Only instead of grenades, it fires miniature missiles, which fly in a straight path instead of in an arc. ”
    Now from the wiki:
    “The MGL fires its 40 mm grenades at speeds just under 250 ft/sec using a shoulder-firing mechanism with a six-round spring-driven revolver-style magazine, that is capable of accepting most 40x46mm grenades.”

    “The grenade launcher is a dangerous ranged weapon”

  59. Secrecy27 June 27, 2014 at 5:46 pm -      #59

    @Fang
    prototype.wikia.com/wiki/Assault_rifle

    Scroll down to trivia:
    In Prototype 2, Blackwatch and Marines now use customized HK416 assault rifles instead of M16 rifles that were used in Prototype.

  60. croc911 June 27, 2014 at 5:50 pm -      #60

    @Secrecy27

    Wait what is the size of the muzzle. The muzzle velocity differs for each HK416 because there are so many different models.

  61. fang44123 June 27, 2014 at 5:56 pm -      #61

    It is when the shields soak up grenades, and shots from assault rifles rather easily.

    Also, point conceded about elites, although that is rather low end for elites :p.
    (funny thing is they weren’t even honor guards). I tend to go with books seeing as cutscenes in games tend to trip over other canon and fall on its face.

    any who, as for the 40 mm grenade. it packs 50 grams Of high explosive powder which is 4 kilojoules per gram. 4 x 50 = 200 kilojoules. so in order for said grenade to kill an elite, it would have to be a direct hit.

    even with low end “herp derp” elites from SPops or other cutscenes, id still put money on them actually. they can sprint up just as fast as spartans (30 mph +). so closing a 50 meter distance at 30 mph would take 3.72 seconds or 4 seconds. (www.machinehead-software.co.uk/bike/speed_distance_time_calc.html)

    Also, “headshots kills faster” is a gameplay mechanic. getting shot in the toe, or in the head does the same damage to the shielding, doesnt matter.

  62. Secrecy27 June 27, 2014 at 5:57 pm -      #62

    @croc911
    seeing pics of it in-game, I would guess an 14.5 to 16.5 inch barrel, as for velocity, nothing yet.
    ===
    @Fang44123
    My understanding of the halo verse were games(not game-mechanics)/books, can be wrong. Can you provide something of the run speed.

  63. fang44123 June 27, 2014 at 6:00 pm -      #63

    HK416 with a 14 inch barrel has a muzzle velocity of 882 M/s so its joules would be
    1944.81 joules or 1.94 kilojoules.

  64. fang44123 June 27, 2014 at 6:12 pm -      #64

    @secrecy
    Usually In game cutscenes are not the best thing for Feats seeing as they run off the same engine as gameplay in most cases.
    In halo reach for example in the first mission zealots charge noble team and has his shields broke in about 26 shots of AR fire and a couple of shots from a magnum (a whole clip i think). later in the very same mission you can fight those very same zealots and it takes the same amount of bullets to pop their shields.
    Pre rendered cut scenes such as spartan ops cutscenes contradict itself heavily, and with other sources. elites and spartans have no shields, yet let in another episode, hoya gets attacked by a promethean knight, and it goes to a first person point of view and you can clearly see his shield bar.

    Its not just halo either mass effect has it too. krogans are supposed to regen really quickly, and can tank full clips of Assault rifles before dieing, yet in one of the cutscenes wrex dies from 5 shots from a pistol.
    I try to go with the medium end of things when i debate rather it be here or on SB, is it fair for one side to cherry pick their best feats whilst low balling the other? I can get that some times you have to low ball things, seeing as its the only thing you have, but going with “lol competency” argument and all these X and Y ‘s that derail said thread, or makes one side feel low balled i dont understand. Usually it should be understood that both sides are competent unless the author said “this race/ person is incompetent as fuck”

  65. Secrecy27 June 27, 2014 at 6:15 pm -      #65

    halo.wikia.com/wiki/Halo_Nation:Canon_Policy
    The concept of superior canon is as follows:

    Current Bungie/343 Employees

    Halo games

    Halo Literature, Soundtracks, and Other Media

    Bungie/343i Affiliates
    This group includes Halo novelists.

    ===
    @fang44123
    Generally I agree with you, but I find that books sometimes blow things way out of its league. If we were going what was said in books, many of the things in-game were to be impossible, like marines even fighting Sangheili.

  66. croc911 June 27, 2014 at 6:18 pm -      #66

    @fang44123

    Oh you are an SB? What is your username? I think find your writing style and language familiar

    On the same note, I did concede that covenant can reduce blackwatch vehicles to molten slag even the rifles, so no I don’t cherry pick. I know when I am defeated. Also , on the same note with the cutscenes, I find it also inaccurate since it featured blackwatch soldiers carrying M4s when a lot actually have LMGs, GLS, and Javelins.

  67. fang44123 June 27, 2014 at 6:21 pm -      #67

    @secrecy
    I understand the canon policy. it is there for the storyline point of view, not necessarily Feats.
    Unless (because of SPops and halo wars) elites and spartans never had shields, and the shield bar was just there to look pretty, hence rendering all shield feats moot. These cutscenes not only contradict themselves, but alot of other canon too.

  68. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets June 27, 2014 at 6:22 pm -      #68

    @Secrecy IIRC there was a quote on MC running 44mph popping headshots like they were nothing. I’ll look for it. Not that Elites are as skilled, but they tend to be equal to Spartans in terms of physical prowess.

  69. fang44123 June 27, 2014 at 6:25 pm -      #69

    @croc my user name is the same on here as it is on SB, and Oh no i wasnt referring to you specifically haha, my apologies for the confusion.
    its mainly to people on SB, and a few other debating sites members. Sb has a REALLY bad habit of cherry picking feats, so much so that i decided to come over to FP.

  70. the_man_with The_Answers June 27, 2014 at 6:29 pm -      #70

    “The unsc wins ground engagements against the covenant.”

    The UNSC rarely wins against the Covenant on the ground. Major ground victories are usually a direct result of SPARTAN forces being on the field. And the UNSC has things like unbelievably powerful dropships and quite capable air forces, like the Longsword.

    “Literally nothing in the prototype game can compete with the Covenant, not even Mercer/Hellar themselves (not that they would be with black-watch anyways)”

    You’re only right in the context of the bigger picture. Without orbital support, Mercer or Hellar would happily murder their way through whatever the Covenant can throw at them.

    “UNSC threw logic out the window when designing their ground assets. Just saying.”

    But their air force is insanely good. The Longsword and Pelican especially.

    “According to the wiki there are only 9 of these. Combine that 2 Thermobaric tanks, Blackwatch only have 11 Thermobaric weapon-platforms, no more.”

    As an organization? How many of those aren’t currently destroyed?

    “as well as seraphs.”

    Covenant win. Right there. Shielded, extremely fast Covenant air/spacecraft with heavy plasma cannons and potentially guided plasma weapons. Nothing Black Watch has can compete with them.

    “A single FGM-148 Javelin missile, with lock-on against everything, is equall or superior to the M41 SSR MAV/AW, which kills an Sangheili instantly.”

    Except it costs like, $80,000 to $130,000 to fire one of those things once. Some part of me believes not every soldier is going to be walking around and effectively using one of these couple dozen kilogram launchers on basic infantry. You’re talking about spending millions of dollars to eliminate a relatively small amount of forces, and that would be assuming Blackwatch just went out and bought a shit load of those missiles beforehand.

  71. Secrecy27 June 27, 2014 at 6:31 pm -      #71

    Well then, I coincide on the whole “Blackwatch soldiers vs Sanghili“, still the facts still stands that an Abram is superior to an Scorpion, which often give the Covenant a run for its money.

    @TMWTA
    Except, for some reason, 3 of 8 Blackwatch soldiers carry them. In every gunfight with the military in Prototype you alwas have atleast 6 of those aimed at you.

  72. croc911 June 27, 2014 at 6:31 pm -      #72

    @fang44123

    Agreed, people are SB are always so rude and condescending. I enjoy reading threads on FP more.

    BTW, elites are on part with Spartans in terms of physical strength. However, Master Chief has killed hundreds of elites. Doesn’t that mean that Master Chief’s skills are much more superior than the typical elites?

  73. fang44123 June 27, 2014 at 6:33 pm -      #73

    @ secrecy

    Not really. Marines were getting their teeth kicked in consistently when there were no spartans, or ODSTs backing them up or they didnt have heavy ordnance. There is a book quote of a whole UNSC base being overrun with a covenant platoon of elites, grunts and hunters. i cant remember which book it was, but i remember one soldier had been hit by a needler, and was being drove around in a warthog and it went into specific detail about the needlers effects.

  74. croc911 June 27, 2014 at 6:36 pm -      #74

    @The man with the answers

    Seraphs are able to be destroyed by 30 mm slow firing antiaircraft guns. Blackwatch in prototype 2 mounts 20 mm Gatling guns on their skyscrapers all over the place….even four can be seen on a skyscraper. Also, this is a game. Games have weird feats and are unrealistic. Sure, the missiles cost a lot of money but Blackwatch doesn’t really care. Heck, Blackwatch soldiers waste hundreds of Javelins trying to hit a human size target (Alex mercer)

  75. the_man_with The_Answers June 27, 2014 at 6:37 pm -      #75

    “The M16A4 carbine has a effective range of 550m to 800m, while the MA5C assault rifle has 300m.”

    I’m of the opinion that Halo weapon stats are of the “Absolute Maximum Range,” variety. As in, the max range is the point where a bullet is minimally lethal to the target. Prime example, during human conflict before the Covenant, when the UNSC was fighting essentially armor-less humans, the Battle Rifle had a range of 900m or so. Sometime during the conflict with the Covenant, the “effective range” became 200m. Probably because the lower energies at long range won’t penetrate grunt and jackal armor lethally. And by that logic, modern weapons would have even shorter ranges against the Covenant.

  76. fang44123 June 27, 2014 at 6:38 pm -      #76

    @ croc
    Not really, Spartans fight dirty. alot of people see them as tanks that like to rush into rooms Leroy Jenkins style and kill everyone but thats not what spartans do at all. Chief and his fellow spartans play like this :www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuI30nUE2AU

  77. Secrecy27 June 27, 2014 at 6:39 pm -      #77

    Well then, the only hope for a Blackwatch victory was the MBT’s and thermobaric munitions, but with air superiority the Covenant stomps.

  78. erickyboo June 27, 2014 at 6:47 pm -      #78

    I said don’t use halo wiki. Use halopedia instead, speaking of which, I should edit the armour articles.

    Halo canon is all canon basically. It’s not this hierarchy star wars style, or old star wars.

    Tried to find a battle scene, www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ_xn889cSk
    Using dust and low vision to confuse humans and to slaughter them.

    Also on shields… not every every elites are equipped with shields or always have shields on. Some elite armour models that have stealth don’t have shields but the Hesdurian Zealots have invisibility and shields.

    Covenant also bas artillery. www.halopedia.org/Mega_turret
    And some smaller ones too.
    www.halopedia.org/Covenant_artillery_(Requiem)
    The ones used on requiem had long range. Enough range to hit from that part of requiem to where majestic was, somewhere around castle base and Copernicus base, desert area.

  79. fang44123 June 27, 2014 at 6:49 pm -      #79

    @croc seraphs are actually really tough. 30mm auto – cannon rounds weigh 400 grams or more, and have a muzzle velocity 1000 M/S +. in the books seraphs take alot of hits from 50mm auto cannons before falling.

  80. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets June 27, 2014 at 6:54 pm -      #80

    “If we were going what was said in books, many of the things in-game were to be impossible, like marines even fighting Sangheili.”

    They really shouldn’t be able to fight Elites though.
    =
    “Without orbital support, Mercer or Hellar would happily murder their way through whatever the Covenant can throw at them.”

    QFT
    =
    “As an organization? How many of those aren’t currently destroyed?”

    I think maybe one tank isn’t destroyed. If they were to still have them it’d be pretty effective against a Scarab though(if it could get a volley off before being vaporized or survive long enough to get to it).
    =
    “Nothing Black Watch has can compete with them.”

    If they had more thermobatic stuff I’d disagree, but since they don’t have much anymore yea. Maybe a Super Soldier could destroy a few of them, maybe…
    =
    “Some part of me believes not every soldier is going to be walking around and effectively using one of these couple dozen kilogram launchers on basic infantry. ”

    A lot of soldiers do carry it in the games. M16, LMG, grenade launchers, and those are pretty much the only weapons in the game. And the Thermobatic Boomstick(DLC), which would cause a lot of trouble for the Covvies(not enough for them to win).
    =
    “Doesn’t that mean that Master Chief’s skills are much more superior than the typical elites?”

    Leaps and bounds better! Any Spartan(except maybe a Spartan I)is way better than most Elites.
    =
    So, found the 44mph thing. I’m just gonna quote Lowk from Cap vs MC

    “According to this, Chief is capable of headshots at about 44mph, even pulling more of mid jump(of three meter up into the air)
    ‘The concrete beneath the Spartan had turned to dust and gravel as he launched forward. Barely half a second had passed and he was already ten meters away. Palmer slung her weapon and tore off after him; Sullivan fell in directly behind her, running for all he was worth. Palmer was pumping her arms and trying to control her breath as she trailed behind the Spartan. She looked up from her boots and saw that his hands were no longer empty–his right hand now held a massive hard-chromed M6D, and a spare magazine was in his left. Eight thunderclaps rang out so fast that they bled together into a single long roar. At the same moment a terrible cacophony erupted behind them as her squadmates opened fire on the building–its facade disappearing behind a cloud of pulverized concrete and shattered glass. two of the Jackals that had been covering their approach had already fallen–bright purple blood fountaining out of huge ragged holes that she could pick out even at this distance.
    With one hand at thirty meters and a dead run, two shots apiece, each a hit to the head or neck, what the holy hell are my guys even aiming at back there–shit. The Corporal’s mind raced, but her legs had begun to slack off. She saw another Jackal appear at the roof’s edge and there was a flash of purple light.
    And then her view was blocked by a wall of green armor; there was a loud crack and a flash of golden light. The Spartan had spun to face her; she saw her own reflection in his visor for a fraction of a second, then he dipped slightly before popping into the air, sailing backward three and a half meters above the ground–smoke trailing from the inside of his right arm. Four more rapid-fire thunderclaps roared in her ears; the magazine dropped out of the Spartan’s M6D, his left hand slamming the fresh magazine up into the well and flicking to catch the empty one as it fell, the huge pistol latched onto his right thigh, the empty magazine stowed, and his knees tucked up to his chest as he continued through the air over the Warthog. Three fingers hooked the crossbar and the vehicle rocked as the Spartan swung down into the charred remains of the driver’s seat;’
    Pg360 Halo Evolutions”

  81. the_man_with The_Answers June 27, 2014 at 6:58 pm -      #81

    “@TMWTA
    Except, for some reason, 3 of 8 Blackwatch soldiers carry them. In every gunfight with the military in Prototype you alwas have atleast 6 of those aimed at you.”

    Well yeah. Mercer WOULD warrant that much. A squad of Covenant? Not so much.

    @The man with the answers

    “Seraphs are able to be destroyed by 30 mm slow firing antiaircraft guns. Blackwatch in prototype 2 mounts 20 mm Gatling guns on their skyscrapers all over the place….even four can be seen on a skyscraper.”

    And Seraphs go toe-to-toe with UNSC Longswords, which sport 110mm autocannons. Even Phantoms shrug off 90mm tank shells. Say what you will, but Covenant aircraft are crazy durable for what they are.

    Another point with the Seraph’s. Their altitude limit is essentially infinite, so they will always have a massive advantage against any modern aircraft.

    Also, this is a game. Games have weird feats and are unrealistic. Sure, the missiles cost a lot of money but Blackwatch doesn’t really care. Heck, Blackwatch soldiers waste hundreds of Javelins trying to hit a human size target (Alex mercer)

    Mercer is also a potential threat to the entire world as we know it so…

  82. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets June 27, 2014 at 6:59 pm -      #82

    @TMWTA You’re good with calcs right?

  83. the_man_with The_Answers June 27, 2014 at 7:01 pm -      #83

    “If they had more thermobatic stuff I’d disagree, but since they don’t have much anymore yea. Maybe a Super Soldier could destroy a few of them, maybe…”

    Which doesn’t mean anything when the Seraphs will always have the ability of fighting you from above your altitude ceiling

  84. the_man_with The_Answers June 27, 2014 at 7:04 pm -      #84

    “@TMWTA You’re good with calcs right?”

    Generally yeah. Depends on what for.

  85. Xander Xtreme June 27, 2014 at 7:06 pm -      #85

    Hey, man with the answers did you go to the chatroom?

  86. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets June 27, 2014 at 7:08 pm -      #86

    “Which doesn’t mean anything when the Seraphs will always have the ability of fighting you from above your altitude ceiling”

    Yea, I was mostly thinking if they hit one it’d be enough to kill it
    =
    “Generally yeah. Depends on what for.”

    Would you mind looking at a couple of things for me? I posted one of them on the Calc Request Thread on the Topia, but apparently no one looks at that thread anymore.

  87. Xander Xtreme June 27, 2014 at 7:16 pm -      #87

    Hey CH1C4N0444, (that was a handful) you wanna join the chatroom again?

  88. the_man_with The_Answers June 27, 2014 at 7:18 pm -      #88

    Sure, if my Topia tab unfreezes. Actually, I’ll just open a new one.

    EDIT: And the Sony Girl person wants you to join the chat. Probably wants the D, but you’ll have to fight Xander for the opportunity I guess.

  89. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets June 27, 2014 at 7:31 pm -      #89

    @TMWTA Awesome, thanks man!

    First is unrelated to the match, but what’s the yield of this nuke?
    static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/14/146504/2946393-hulk_takes_nuke_incredible_hulk_002.jpg

    Second is match related, so how powerful are the Thermobaric weaponry? Here’s a few videos that have them in it:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADAym_OS3Kc From the tank.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa_oKq5z4vc From the boomstick.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wBwro2DMRA 2:44 has one, haven’t scanned for others. From the helicopter
    =
    ” And the Sony Girl person wants you to join the chat. Probably wants the D”

    It’s probably because I’m foreign.

  90. croc911 June 27, 2014 at 7:53 pm -      #90

    Alright.

    But its not a ROLF stomp I’m sure. If Black watch replaced the UNSC on the ground and had the amount of soldiers UNSC had, I’m pretty 100% sure that blackwatch would do better. Nice debating with you guys.

  91. the_man_with The_Answers June 27, 2014 at 7:57 pm -      #91

    Nuclear calculations for things get hard to calculate based off of dimension past like 50MT or so. But based on the picture, it looks equivalent, or similar, to a massive asteroid model impact I saw at one point. Not quite the same, but close enough for a ballpark I would assume.

    600km wide asteroid at 40,000m/s. Note that while I type out only a few rounded digits, I keep all of them in my calculations.

    1/2*width=radius
    1/2*600km=300km
    300km=300,000m

    (4/3)*pi*r^3=Spherical volume
    (4/3)*pi*(300,000m)^3=1.13E17m^3

    Density*Volume=Mass
    2,800kg/m^3(Approximate density of rock)*1.13E17m^3=3.167E20kg

    KE=1/2*Mass*Velocity^2
    1/2*3.167E20kg*(40,000m/s)^2=2.533E29J

    1 Ton=4,184,000,000J
    2.533E29J/4,184,000,000J=6.055E19T

    6.055E19T=60.549ET (Exatons). Expect everything on that planet to die if a firery spontaneous combustion, the majority of the surface turned to a volcanic state, and a multiple thousand kilometer wide lava ocean of sorts directly centered around ground zero.

    Of course, Nukes of that size can be deceptively powerful looking, so it wouldn’t be out of the question for it to be an order of magnitude lower.

    Bandwidth is too weak to watch videos in any reasonable timeframe, so I’ll have to get to the videos sometime else, unless someone can get useful screenshots.

  92. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets June 27, 2014 at 8:12 pm -      #92

    “If Black watch replaced the UNSC on the ground and had the amount of soldiers UNSC had, I’m pretty 100% sure that blackwatch would do better.”

    Don’t really think they would do much better. Really the only thing that makes them even a challenge for the Covvies are the Super Soldiers and the thermobaric weaponry. Maybe when/if Prototype 3 comes out they’ll make some more of that stuff, really loved the Boomstick.
    =
    “60.549ET (Exatons)”

    o.0 I knew it’d be powerful, but holy crap!
    =
    “Expect everything on that planet to die if a firery spontaneous combustion, the majority of the surface turned to a volcanic state, and a multiple thousand kilometer wide lava ocean of sorts directly centered around ground zero.”

    All it managed to do was vaporize Bruce Banner and make Hulk close his eyes because he didn’t want to see Bruce get vaporized. The rest of the planet was fine.
    =
    “Bandwidth is too weak to watch videos in any reasonable timeframe, so I’ll have to get to the videos sometime else, unless someone can get useful screenshots.”

    i.ytimg.com/vi/3znvwGz4udw/0.jpg You don’t get the full effect without the video, but there’s a pic of it.
    =
    Thanks man!

  93. the_man_with The_Answers June 27, 2014 at 8:37 pm -      #93

    So apparently that wasn’t the cur of the Earth in the picture. So more like 30MT – 100MT based on the island size.

  94. croc911 June 28, 2014 at 1:29 am -      #94

    Can you guys talk in the chat room or Something? The thread is being contaminated. Thanks appreciate it.

  95. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets June 28, 2014 at 1:42 am -      #95

    It was less than 10 comments, calm down. That’s nowhere near being contaminated. You should see the What if… Everyone who left thread… Now that’s contaminated.

  96. fang44123 June 28, 2014 at 3:21 am -      #96

    @chican

    That halo evolutions quote puts the spartans speed at 58 or 59 Mph. who was the spartan?

  97. CH1C4N0444 is allergic to bullets June 28, 2014 at 5:13 am -      #97

    @Fang It was MC, I do believe. I’ll have to check. It was another Piler who brought up the feat, I have the book though, so I’ll check.

  98. the_man_with The_Answers June 28, 2014 at 11:23 am -      #98

    “That halo evolutions quote puts the spartans speed at 58 or 59 Mph.”

    Uhh. No it doesn’t. 20m/s is about 45 mph

    And it was Master Chief. “Palace Hotel” is a short story about Chief fighting on Earth during Halo 2.

    Thermobaric Boomstick, from first glance, looks like 30MJ – 50MJ.

  99. fang44123 June 28, 2014 at 11:53 am -      #99

    ah, my bad then. i dont know what i typed in last night to get 58 mph

  100. Albert W Wesker June 28, 2014 at 1:28 pm -      #100

    I never played any of theses games but I do know that the covenet were a large force of multiple race and then had a civil war which led to there defeat so I can’t say much but I do read wikis a lot o I must say are we talking about the present or past when it was at its greater strength

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